Why did this happen, /vp/?

waifus sell better than pocket monsters

>>30851039
Does that explains SM's success over XY?

>>30850996
she is somehow worse than Zinnia, because she didn't appear until Delta Episode at least.
Besides, her character is flat.

>>30851090
GO

>>30851103
Fuck no she's not. They're both shit but Zinnia is completely worse.

>>30851039
>>30851090
Genwun helped sell the game. That's where all the advertisement and hype was generated.

>>30851114
This.
And nice marketing.

>>30851103
Zinnia is the worst character because without her the multiverse (((theory))) wouldn't fucking exist.

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>>30850996
>another Lillie hate thread

You got blown the fuck back last time. Can you stop?

>>30850996
Sun and Moon are the first games to actually be marketed well worldwide since RBY. It has shit all to do with Lillie.

>>30850996

It's okay to admit you're gay, anon. The sooner you accept your homosexuality, the sooner you can seek help for it.

>>30850996
Because Japs and much of /vp/ eat this shit up. No need to make a quality game when your fanbase is fine with just about anything.

>>30851184
>being a pedo

>>30851116
I know Zinnia is definitley worse, but It's still annoying how the game focus on her and Lusamine instead of other elements, like:
>her brother
>Team Skull
>UBs
>protagonist
>Zygarde
>Type:Null and Arceus

>>30851156
Hoopa......

>>30851156
You do know that even without Zinnia, multiverse is basically confirmed with the whole "You can go in the other version universe" thing in SM ?

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>>30851103
>anything
>worse than Zinnia

>>30851116
Zinnia wasn't a Mary Sue presented as "too pure for this dirty earth"

Zinnia acted like one until she was proven wrong and had a "fuck, I messed up" moment.

>>30851313
>15 hours of Lillie vs 2 hours of Zinnia
Even if Zinnia's character was ten time worse, I'd still prefer her.

>>30851316
Zinnia is closer to a Mary Sue than Lillie is. Lillie isn't even a Mary Sue. Mary Sues are perfect in every way. The games go out of their way to show that Lillie isn't and that she's fucking useless for the most part.

>>30851316
>character I don't like = Mary Sue

Back to /v/

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Don't get me wrong, I liked the story and Lillie never bothered me that much, but why haven't we seen him evolve Type:0 in a cutscene or anything ? It's supposed to be something really important

>>30851316
>Mary Sue
>Lets Cosmog get beaten to death by Spearows
You should google what something means before using it in a conversation

>>30851393
I haven't even noticed that it evolved until I had to battle Gladio again.

>>30851103
She is definitely flatter than Zinnia, but Zinna is one of the more busty characters in the series so that isnt saying much

>>30851440
I don't know, but the term Mary Sue isn't like before.
However, the whole story is still about her, though there were tons of other cool stuffs >>30851225

>>30851364
>The games go out of their way to show that Lillie isn't

With her stock, harmless faults?
Oh no, she gets lost easily, how terrible. Geez, she's such a sheltered girl, how terrible. None of that is her fault though! It's all due to the mean Lusamine (let's ignore the fact that Gladion turned out fine).

Compared to "Oh no, I was too arrogant to listen to other people and now everyone will die".

Either way, I don't care. I wanted Ultra Beasts and got Lillie. This is the most disappointment I've ever had in this series.

>>30851441
I know right ? That's such a shame that Lillie had a lot more of focus than Gladio. It's not a bad thing but, I would have liked more Gladio too

>>30851507
Too bad fag

>>30851393
Because GF just had to give all the focus to Lillie.

>>30851518
He is my favourite rival in the series. I really enjoyed his personality (he isn't even edgy!) and theme. Just needed more screen time.

>>30851440
Why don't you Google it? Nobody can agree on what a Mary Sue is exactly.

Which is pointless to this discussion as all of Lillie's faults are presented as being due to somebody else.

>>30851123
XY had even more genwun than SM, retard.

>>30851393
Because he's a male.

>>30851608
They really aren't though.

>>30851606
Shit, this is exactly what I was thinking
Also smiling Gladion is the best thing in the game

>>30851642
Ok buddy, your waifu is a perfectly flawed human.

I'd still rather see Ultra Beasts and shit rather than generic waifus.

>"Mary Sue" becomes the next word-of-the-day to lose all meaning due to frequent misuse by shitters

>>30851608
Yes people agreed, before fuckers on 4chan took it and decide to use it however they wanted to fit whatever they were saying. Kinda like "Edgy"
Basically a Mary sue is a character that is supposed to be perfect with absolutely no flaws and has a lot of charisma. It's the too perfect hero.
But Lillie is far from a hero, I mean, you can't tell me that letting cosmog getting fucked up because she's afraid is somebody else's fault

>>30851750
>muh 40yo word has a different meaning today
How sad.

>>30851842
The thing is, it's meaning is "I don't like it"

>>30851842
>learning new words is hard, so I'll just change the meaning of the few I already know

>>30851891
>>30851859
People use it for charaters that the author tries too hard to present as sympathetic.

Get over it.

>>30851631
Prove it

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>Lillie posters ITT

>>30851960
>animefags

>>30851507
>(let's ignore the fact that Gladion turned out fine)
Other than blowing all his money the first year and needing to run errands for a crappy band of lowlifes that are still way above him.

>>30851606
Gladion was pretty much Silver done right

>>30851835
Or getting kidnapped and needing to run away all the time.
A Mary Sue isn't supposed to be a damsel in distress.

>>30851921
People are generally poorly-educated simpletons who parrot simple words and phrases that become commonplace, regardless of context.

>>30852133
Gladion at least can function on his own.

If the player character died of a heart attack at the beginning of the game, what would Lillie do?

>doesn't battles
>can't dress herself
>gets lost in straight routes

>>30852188
You just described memes.

>>30852199
>can't dress herself
The one time she did dress herself, she had better taste than her brother.

>>30852209
Exactly. Memes are the only things stupid people have to offer.

>>30852199
>clearly a flawed character
>Mary Sue

You fags are retarded I swear

Simple, Lillie is the response to Zinnia.
People hated how Zinnia came outta nowhere, so Lillie is with you the entire story.
Zinnia was hated because she was involved in everything and doesn't need you, so Lillie doesn't do anything and begs for your help.
In terms of looks, it's fairly obvious.

>>30852241
And they've managed to destroy the meaning of "meme" too.

>>30851156
Weren't alternate dimensions basically confirmed in BW/BW2 though?

>>30852199
Well, I'd also be as useless in battles if my only pokemon only knew splash and teleport.

>>30852256
This is good answer.
It shows making the exact opposite isn't a solution.

>>30851103
>characters flat
>literally transforms part way through the story

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>>30852256
To be honest, I didn't even know Zinnia was hated at all until checking /vp/
I didn't think she gave any motives to be neither loved nor hated.

>>30851316
Lillie is a bumbling, adorable clod who can't do shit on her own. She's the furthest thing from a Mary Sue, especially because I don't see how she could be a self-insert. Maybe Ohmori identifies as a blonde 12yo girl in a frilly dress, who knows.

>>30852400
That anatomy tho

>>30851393
It's a similar case as Silver's Golbat evolving. He learned to not be a dick from the protag, his Pokemon evolved. Not everything needs to be spelled out for you.

>>30852447
>Maybe Ohmori identifies as a blonde 12yo girl in a frilly dress, who knows
I know I do.

>>30852400
because >klk

>>30852481
Thing is Gladion was never a prick that considered pokemon as a tool for an end like Silver did.
Heck, the very reason why he isn't with Lusamine is because he hated how Type:Null was being treated. He was nice from the start.
It just happened. You battle him and he has Type:Null. You battle him again and suddenly he has Silvally with no previous or further mention of it.

>>30852481
I don't know. He has never been dick to his Pokemons.
Besides, >>30851393 just wants more screen time for Gladio

>>30852302
She's living on Mele Mele, with Kukui no less. He could've easily asked the Kahuna to give her a Pokemon, or get one himself. That's no excuse.

>>30852256
>>30852385
We need a middle ground like BW's Bianca and Cheren.

>>30852635
>She's living on Mele Mele, with Kukui
This makes upset, because she lived 3 months with the strongest trainer in Alola.

However, anon was surely just joking.

>>30852664
>Bianca and Cheren
Who again?

I want chuuni faggots to leave my board

>>30852664
I'd rather have characters.

>>30852694
Being fair she dint want to be a trainer until the MC inspired her and by that time she was too busy with the game plot.
If not for Lusamine lillie could had started her journey in Alola

>>30851280
There was something about that all the way back in Gen V, where a trainer wanted to see a Pokemon from an "alternate dimension" (ie the other BW version). Plus different Gym Leaders and towns between the two games.

>>30851090
Pokemon GO

>>30852664
Lillie is fine. In fact, most people absolutely love Lillie. GF does not need to pander to all 15 /vp/ posters that dislike her, and I'm glad for that.

>>30852780
Frankly (I know she is only 11 years old, but), she escaped the Aether Foundation and from her mother. They could still find her any time, but she has done nothing for the 3 damn months though she had really good opportunities.

I do like Lillie, but I'm disappointed that story wise, the UBs were disappointing.
When all you fight is Jelly mom.

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>this turned into a Lillie thread
>no mention of the lack of UBs in the story

>>30851103
You're not serious, are you ?

>>30850996
You overhyped yourself and got dissapointed, nothing else.

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>>30852948
This is now a Lillie thread

>>30852916
I wish we ACTUALLY fought jellymom. Instead we got the totem version of Jellymom's team.

Anyway, regardless of focus UB's weren't all that trascendental by themselves in the end. They were just animals dragged from a specific dimension.

>>30853199
Where are cosmog's footprints?!

There are two problems here:

Lillie is a character that polarizes players coming from different perspective and gaming backgrounds. People who played shit like RE4 will fucking despise her on principle, for example. Others will admire her because she's not a "grrrrl" character being forced into the game to ruin the experience and she comes off as cute by her helplessness. So that's where a lot of the contention is from.

The second issue is that Ultra Beasts are beyond fucking stupid. Why did Gamefreak think bringing Digimon into the game was a good idea? If I wanted to play a shitty Final Fantasy involving poorly designed monsters and shitty plots revolving around them (ie any FF after 6) I'd just play a shitty Final Fantasy.

>>30852700
>I need a character shoven down my throat to remember them

People like you are the problem.

>>30851156
That was confirmed in ten 1 when you could trade with literally another red who went on literally the same adventure as you except did slightly different things

>>30850996

I know of no one who actually liked Lillie

They came for Pokemon, not a dumb waifu

>>30852700

Fart Fetish and Not Gary

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>>30853390
Because you're a normie who should stay in the GO thread

>>30853390
There's a post above that I refuse to quote that says that everyone outside of /vp/ LOVED Lillie.

Waifufags are fucking delusional.

>>30851184
>being a pedo lolifag is better than being gay

>>30853451
>normie for wanting Pokemon in a Pokemon game and not cheap waifubait for lolifags

kys

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>>30853755
After you faggot

>>30851507
The fact shes a timid sheltered girl who doesnt understand how to do anything really ARE major flaws and by definition make her not even close to a mary sue.

Besides that, she has no actual skills that help the protagonist at all. That is something a mary sue actually needs.

Lillie is literally just a sheltered little girl. Thats it.

>>30853327
Tell me one thing you remember about Barry other than always being in a hurry and his dad being the Battle Tower master.

>>30853448
Oh those. They had glasses, right?

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>>30853896
>*furiously googles*

>>30854038
I got really excited the first time I saw that animation but it got so overused near the end there that it really lost its impact.

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Npcs have like 5 animations all together

>>30853977

Did they fug?

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>>30854177
Who knows

>>30851507
She's fucking useless and the protagonist has to do everything for her
That's the opposite of a mary sue.

>>30853896
My 2 personal experiences (didn't google it)
>He always acts like a crazy little boy, but he knows when he makes dumb things and apologizes (when took the starter pokemons from Rowan's suitcase without his permission, because he led himself and protagonist to the lake, where he met wild pokemons)
>Getting depressed after his defeat against Jupiter, because he wasn't careful or good enough (he always beats the gym leader before you, except the last one via his depression).

>>30853878
A mary sue is someone who is rewarded for no good reason. Lillie is praised left and right in the game for nothing. That is a mary sue.

>>30854350
I didn't remember he fought Jupiter at all.

>>30854395
>A mary sue is someone who is rewarded for no good reason.
Wrong

http://www.springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Lillie is praised for going off adventuring despire the fact she was sheltered all her life and has no idea how the world works.

>>30850996
looks like you got cosmoem'd

>>30851039
>waifus sell
I hear this shit everytime despite Dragon Ball being probably the most profitable anime of all and franchises like Fate flopping the moment they choose waifu over action (see F/Z vs UBW sales).

>>30851393
He's a fucking white male. He doesn't get anything.

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Lillie isn't a bad character and she's not a mary-sue, her execution is just fucking terrible. From the start of the game, she steals the show from you. She openly, blatantly commits theft of the spotlight because she's so "important" and her story "matters", while you get zero input into the decisions the game makes for you. This removes player agency and the concept that the decisions and actions you take matter.

I'll probably get hate for this because
>gen 5
but lets compare Lillie to another female "side" character, Bianca. Now, Lillie doesn't have to be Bianca. They're different characters, but their plights are similar. Bianca's not the greatest at anything, in fact she's pretty damn bad. But Bianca's biggest character point is that she tries. She wants to be better, so she DOESN'T have to rely on you or Cheren. This is good, it means she wants to develop as her own person and character independent of you. Lillie does not. She spends the whole game fawning over how awesome you are while you effortlessly brush away all of the issues that are plaguing her.

This is the core problem: you're not the main character, Lillie is. The game isn't about YOUR development, it's about Lillie's as a direct response to your intervention. If she had shown up about half as much as she did, that would have been one thing. If the story had been about you just going about your trials and she was off doing her own thing until you happen to run into each other again, that would be another. But the story doesn't care about you, yeah, woo, cool, you're a good trainer. Whatever. HERE, LOOK AT LILLIE AGAIN, AREN'T HER PROBLEMS ENDEARING? WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T WANT HER TO DRAG/FOLLOW YOU AROUND SO YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING FOR HER BEFORE SHE RUNS OFF TO KANTO WITHOUT GIVING ANYONE CLOSURE?

It's not about the character, it's about how much GameFreak tries to cram her down your throat, while your character just smiles their blank smile and asks for more.

>>30854683
So basically you want to be the only non-antagonistic character that matters.

>>30854800
No? The other games had side characters that mattered, and I don't have a problem with any of them. I just believe Lillie takes too much of the game time away from the person that EVERY OTHER ENTRY has been about, the player. The way they force Lillie on you comes off to me as more annoying than endearing.

>>30854683
This combined with my previous statement>>30852256
Shows all the problems Lillie has.

>>30851934
2 hours late but where did Charizard and Mewtwo get 2 new forms each

Or where we needed to reinact waking snorlax up with a pokeflute

Or walk though Viridan Forest. It's a 1 to 1 clone

>>30854683
>I want better stories!
>here story
>WAAAAAH

Just stop posting

At least they fucked the waifufags over by making her leave at the end. We all know there can never realistically be a MC/Lillie reunion, so it was all just a cocktease in the end.

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>>30854976
Waifufags enjoyed the story at least while you had to force yourself to play.
Checkmate normies

>>30855089
Did they enjoy getting blue-balled at the end as well?

>>30854967
>its a story if it happens to someone you arent even playing as
0/10

There is no reason the player character couldnt have been lillie other than boys would get triggered over the idea of having to play as a girl.

>>30854976
No anon, it's worse it was a sad bittersweet parting

Look at undertale

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>>30855110
I am happy for Lillie. We might never see her again but she'll return to Alola in canon.
>>30855156
You can't make a good story with a silent blank staring faggot so they made Lillie. Unova had N in the same role but I guess gen 5 is perfect and untouchable.

>>30853294
>malasada boy with the jacket of his gramps
looks horrible desu

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>>30854967
>I want BETTER stories
Nice job fucking up.

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>>30854853
>The other games had side characters that mattered
Did they really? All I can remember is either characters giving you important items (usually with no story about how they got such items) or characters with small arcs so far away in the background that they didn't really matter and didn't interact with the main story at all. You could switch most of them and hardly anything would change.

And don't you think that "every other entry" is precisely the reason to stop doing that at once? I've been playing the same fucking story ever since sapphire at least the first two gens didn't involve legendaries as the central part of the villain's plan, enough is enough.
Playing bodyguard was a nice change of pace and it didn't make me feel unimportant at all, as without me Lillie couldn't have reacher her goals at all. I didn't feel any less agency than in previous games, as the "you're forbidden to do anything but this" feeling has been increasing in strength for a long time, but this time I felt that my presence mattered to someone and set things in motion, rather than blindly stumbling into important stuff by chance.
Also, the island trial thing was more player-focused than badge collecting ever was.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure the next game will be back to the same story as always or at the very least will return the player as the centerpiece of the good guys side. Meanwhile, let us enjoy a story where we can be second to someone.

>>30854683
fucking this! Its why i can't stand this cunt and the main game.

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>>30855442
>I didn't like it

Sounds like a personal problem to me. It is better than anything we've had.

>>30855279
not the other anon but quit that gen 5 strawman. everyone here thinks that N is a fucking special snowflake and hate him

>>30854651
Dragonball is only good for the action, the SoL stuff and waifus are complete shit.

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>>30855537
How new are you?

>>30854924
Where did Kanto pokémon and only Kanto pokémon get new forms?
Where did we have another Oak?
Where did we get Kanto as pretty much the only place where immmigrants come from?
Where was Kanto heavily emphasized as the only place to travel to?
Where did we get Red and Green thrown into our faces?
Where did we reenact Nugget Bridge down to the exact same lines and pokemon?

>>30854967
>people complaining about shallow and bland stories are the same that complain about Lillie
Some guys seem to be pretty happy about how the story was before SM.

>>30852664

>unovabortions think the only good characters are the ones from gen 5

>>30854683
Holy shit this

N and the rest of the cast at least treated you like a person important to the story

You're literally just there in SM

>>30854683
You actually want the story to revolve around a mute character with no personality?

The idea of trying to revolve the story around the protagonist is retarded. This isn't a JRPG where the protagonist is an established character, nor a WRPG where you're given freedom to say whatever you want and take charge of the plot. The protagonist is an old-school mute JRPG protagonist with no personality outside a few dialogue options that don't affect anything and whatever headcanon you have about them to explain why they do what the other characters tell them to and get called their friend.

Any linear story with a protagonist like pretty much can't revolve around them because neither them nor the player have any agency in the plot. You just silently do whatever others tell you to and get called awesome for winning fights.

Even in Gen 5, the player isn't really the focus. The focus is just whatever other characters you're with at the time, mostly Bianca, Cheren, and N. They're the ones who actually grow and have character arcs. You're just there to have fun and help move those arcs along by beating the shit out of people. The only real thing Sun/Moon does differently from other games is how it focuses so much on only one other character, Lillie. Which gives the story more focus, but makes it more obvious that the protagonist isn't really the focus of plot.

>>30855625
>Where did we get Kanto as pretty much the only place where immmigrants come from?
Stopped reading there

>>30850996
You expected cutscenes and got cutscenes?

>>30855752
I expected Ultra Beasts and got waifu.

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>>30854683
>This is the core problem: you're not the main character, Lillie is. The game isn't about YOUR development, it's about Lillie's as a direct response to your intervention

Literally not a problem at all and it's one of the biggest factors that makes SM fresh and unique compared to the old games.

>>30854976
>We all know there can never realistically be a MC/Lillie reunion
Other than MC having a hometown right where Lillie went.

>>30855707
No one EVER asked for your input in SM it felt like

>>30855707
No, I want GameFreak to give me the ability to GIVE the main character emotions, to actually let me make decisions that fucking matter and choices based on my personal preferences, instead of just shoving a waifu character in my face and calling it a day. This has been an issue since the beginning, the main character might as well be a cardboard cut out.

GameFreak makes good characters, now I just want them to write a good fucking story already that makes me feel involved without playing second bitch to a useless princess.

>>30855736
Because you didn't need more rebuttals?

>>30855498
Buzzwole and exeggutor being there bother me.

>>30855824
>Without knowing lillie is living in your former house because your dad is renting your room

>>30855876
>Burnett
>Colress
>Grimesly
>Looker
>Annabel
>Cynthia
>Wally
>Dexio
>Sina

>>30855498
>All I can remember is either characters giving you important items

>>30855929
You know, if they didn't include at least these characters, there would be no more hope.

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>>30855916
It all comes around.

>>30855799
>Literally not a problem at all

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>>30855994
GF isn't that smart to pull it off

>>30855929
And how many Kanto characters were there in XY?

>>30855555

>>30852481
>>30851393
Most of Gladion's team evolves through friendship. He's not a dick.

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>>30855991
When Acerola takes Lillie to go shopping and don't let you join is the only time I felt like the story was written with the male character in mind.
Later I noticed the sausagefest that was the title defense.

>>30856015
None. Just like every region

But they did give you free Kanto starters before the second gym and the mega stone which is one of 4? mega stones you can get before postgame

The other 2/3 are Kanto stones

And a free lapras

>>30856197
MAGA edit when?

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>>30856206
Ask pol

>>30854683
Thank you based anon.

>>30856096
>And a free lapras
You could argue this for Alola too. Heck, it also has tauros and charizard.
Wait a second, charizard isn't even in the Alola pokédex. Every other pokeride was in the Alola pokédex at the very least. So why charizard instead of a local flying type? Not like I don0t know the answer

As for the megaevolution point, it's kinda mixed. You get a similar number of mega stones for Kanto and non-Kanto (but it says a lot that all non-Kanto have to be clumped together). But at the very least, you DO get mega evolutions that are NOT Kanto pokémon. Unlike Alolan forms, which are quite more prominent.

Kalos had a lot of genwun pandering, but Alola took it much further.

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>>30856253
Guess we didn't play the same game

>>30855279
>Unova had N in the same role but I guess gen 5 is perfect and untouchable.
Fuck that the only thing worse than VII's story is gen V. God gen v was just complete shit besides some cool new pokemon.

The only reason that /v/ and /vp/ love it so much is because the majority of people on those boards are young and it was either their first or 2nd pokemon game ever.

>>30856253
Huh. I forgot about pokeride

But I like to point out that Alola did spread out it's pandering to more than just Kanto unlike Kalos did

>>30856253

A lot of this still sounds like people getting ass blasted over the fact that their favorite Pokemon didn't get a mega evoltuon or a riding model and falling back on the "genwunner" defense to cover it up.

>>30850996
Basically, GameFreak saw how Fire Emblem Fates was a mediocre game that got way too much praise because of all the waifus in it and they decided to do the same thing with Sun & Moon.

>>30856285
Did you really not notice all the forced Kanto stuff present in Alola from beginning to end?
Heck, the story fucking begins stating that you come from Kanto and ends with Lillie going to Kanto.

>>30856310
>Charizard gets 2 Mega's
>Feraligatr gets nothing still

Also Houndoom did get a mega, they fucked it up

>>30852481
Gladion ran away from aether foundation to save Null
He was never a dick to his pokemon, just other people.

>>30856326

Maybe they were too busy enjoying all the new Alola stuff to autism rage over the fact that someone said the word Kanto in the script.

>>30855279
>same role

N was a fucking antagonist/rival

>>30856303
Or because they are contrarians. Gen 5 is the worst selling main series Pokemon gen, which is really shameful considering that they were on the fucking DS AKA the best selling handheld system.

>>30856310
To be honest I kinda hate charizard (and loving bird pokemon makes me hate this even more) so I would have been fine even with salamence or dragonite over charizard.
I have no issues with lapras, tauros and machamp though. Other than tauros taking away my bike.

>>30856309
Well, it certainly was present everywhere instead of being concentrated at the beginning (with Viridian Forest, starters and snorlax) and the end (legendaries) but I'd say Kanto has a way stronger presence in Alola all the way through. Heck, those sightseekers make it a point to prove how Kantonian they are.

>"The game has anything related to kanto in any way shape or form" = genwun pandering, it's crap hurrrr
People that are so obsessed and sperg out all the time over anything Kanto related are as annoying as genwunners. Off yourselves.

>>30856398
It's almost like it was released when the 3DS was already announced/already out and had no Pokemon GO to boost sales.
OH WAIT

>>30851631
Except it didn't. I know /vp/ likes to find every little thing to shit on XY for but this isn't one of them.

>>30853896
Very excited to be a Pokemon trainer, reckless, want to be as strong as his dad and gets annoyed by you being so "slow". He often beat the Gyms before you.

>>30856398
3 things about that

>pirating was in a whole mother world
>4th releases on the same system
>polarized normies


It was still the 6th most successful game on the ds where DP was 5th

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>>30856383
They story revolved around him. It was his story. Even the intro was about him getting crowned or some shit.

>>30856451
>polarized normies
How? Becuase the oldest pokemon weren't readily availiable?

>>30856452
You opposed him

He was still the focus, but not the same role

>>30856452

N wasn't even interesting.

>awful Mary Sue archetype
>super special, can talk to Pokemon, super nice and kind to all Pokemon, super strong, all Pokemon love him
>but doesn't like people, people are nasty and mean to Pokemon :(

CHRIST

>>30856347
That's less of GF gen 1 pandering and more of GF not giving a shit about Gen 2. It is the only region where one of it's characters didn't show up in S&M after all.

>>30856470
Yes

Normies despise BW1, that's why everyone strawmans Unova for bad newer designs in trash and ice cream personifications

real talk Vanillix is a great design as icicles that inspired ice cream in the region

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>>30856479
You know what the fuck I mean
He moved the story forward, just like Lillie

>>30855707
I hate this faggot answer. Story my ass. All we need is a journey with a purpose. Side characters can go together, they can develop, or whatever, as long as the focus stays on MY JOURNEY.

Don't turn me into the bodyguard of some dumb bitch.

>>30856451
>muh pirating
DS sales are at 150 million. "Piracy" is not an excuse for Gen 5 underperforming.

>>30855799
t. Lilliefag

>>30855799
>massive flaw in game design
>makes the game feel fresh

Lillie posters are literally cancer. Kill yourself my man.

>>30856525

Sounds like you should be playing Pokemon Red/Blue then.

>>30856486
>Mary Sue
>gets his ass handed to him repeatedly
>admits he's wrong
>hated by a fuck ton of people in game


Stop with the term Mary Sue

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>>30856542
What an insult oh boy how can anon even recover

>>30856432
And? That doesn't change the fact that it's a Pokemon game ON THE BEST SELLING HANDHELD. People just didn't give a shit about them.

>>30856368
I was too busy enjoying both Kalos and Alola to let the constant Kanto stuff bother me. But that doesn't mean I didn't notice it.
I found the Viridian Forest stuff to be a neat surprise since it was a first

>>30856514
But normies don't come to 4chan to complain about Unova.

>>30856547
There's a middle ground you idiot. This middle ground has been reached since gen 3.

But yes, I'd rather replay Red or Blue than Waifumoon and Waifusun.

>>30851194
Wew lawd this, the japs and western pokefaggots will never shit on a game so long as it has Pokemon in it. Pokken is the very result of this. Pokemon tekken and yet ppl act like this shit is new. It's been sad watching my own hype for this game due to how fucking retarded they've gotten in mechanics and story

>>30856519
>he moved the story forward

You don't even see him that much

>>30856539
>underperforming
By that logic Crystal Platinum and Emerald are all shitty games then

>>30856519
>moved the story forward
As an obstacle

>>30856594

There you have it folks. The truth revealed at last. Unovabortions were genwunners all along.

>>30850996
that's right, now say thank you, Faggot.

>>30856593
Mate this board is literally normie central.

>>30852199
>If the player character died of a heart attack at the beginning of the game, what would Lillie do?
>>doesn't battles
>>can't dress herself
>>gets lost in straight routes
Some Mary Sue, huh?

>>30856632
I'm retarded I responded to the same person twice

>>30856593
Yes, but I am talking about in general

>>30856568
Does that make Crystal or Platinum bad?

>>30856546
>flaw
>massive
>game design
Holy crap how can all this be so wrong?
BW exp mechanics combined with hyper training and no way to compensate for that first element? Now THAT was a game design flaw.
Lillie being more important than you for the story? It fucking isn't. Let alone a massive one.

>>30856642
>hurrdurr unovabortion genwunner XD

Gods. First Lillieposters and now underages. I regret making this thread, you people made it absolutely unbearable and almost impossible to have any kind of discussion.

>>30856674
>Does that make Crystal or Platinum bad?
Are you comparing overpriced expansion packs to brand new games?

>>30856642
That means they aren't underaged then right?

>>30856387
edit nebby instead of that useless loli

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>>30856728
Nah

>>30856698
>Lillie being more important than you for the story? It fucking isn't. Let alone a massive one.

>>30856594
The middle ground where you're a dork randombly bumping into the evil team that wants to awaken a legendary until it reaches the point where you're the only one in the vicinity to stop them?

>>30856698
DESU bw exp curve would've been so good....if they KEPT Blissey Bases. Good lord....

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>>30856594
Seems like we have a solution. Have fun with the old games anon.

>>30856754
Yes.

>>30856806
It was lame the first time. It didn't get any better the fifth time.

>>30856722
That's what they saw BW as because they already released 3 other games before it

>>30856831
*on the ds

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>>30855824

>>30856850
And?

>>30856873
It explains why it didn't sell well

>>30856712
You came to /vp/ to have any kind of discussion? You're not very smart, are you? Or just a newfag.

>>30856877
Sry, I thought you were two different people and understood ironically.

>>30856739
:(

>>30856918
Been here since the XY hype. Discussion was fine until this gen.

I blame the Lillie posters.

>>30856826
That's your opinion. I prefer that over forced waifufaggotry.

>>30851631
SM had the full support of Pokemon GO which reignited the flame in normies who had forgotten about Pokemon years ago.

>>30857050

You mean all the discussion about how XY sucked and how Gen 5 is the greatest thing ever made? Or how about the literally homosexual gay husbando threads for N/Hilbert/Nate.

Face it, you're bootyblasted that the new game is completely and utterly overshadowing the old games and acting like a nostalgiafag while you're at it.

>>30857104
Also the VC RBY releases.

>>30857050
>Discussion was fine until this gen.

I smiled. Good one.

>>30857116
And overall a marketing campaign stronger than anything we've seen since 1999.

>>30857111
>Righteousness AND trips

>>30857111
>husbando threads
>not Drayden

Newfag detected

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Wow 302 replies
See OP, your thread was successful

>>30857202
I'd rather if it died after the first three answers desu.

>>30857072
>He prefers that over forced waifufaggotry.

>>30856432
XY and ORAS both didnt have pokemon go either. Your argument is extremely retarded

>>30856398
First of all, sales doesn't means quality. How many people looked at BW, "eww no old pokemon all new pokemon sux XD" and didn't buy it?

Second, gen 5 was revolutionary for a mere DS game. Gen 5's online features are so robust that it can be compared to gen 7's.

Third, it pushed the DS's power to the limits, without lagging like shit (gen 4, 6, 7).

And finally, it's the first gen that dared to focus a bit more on story, character development and get out of Japan. The "only new pokemon" was explained as the region being far from Kanto and other japanese regions. It was new and refreshing.

You don't have to be a contrarian to appreciate gen 5.

>>30857834
>Gen 5's online features are so robust that it can be compared to gen 7's
I don't remember them being so bad.

>>30854651
fate/zero has less action tho. UBW flopped compared to zero cause Kerry>>>>>>>>>>Shirou

>>30857834
>How many people looked at BW, "eww no old pokemon all new pokemon sux XD" and didn't buy it?
No one because most people didnt even know that was a feature until they started playing. The reason why no one played it was because of the AWFUL pseduo 3d and overworld that made the game nauseating to play, AND because the new legendaries were boring and the story was boring. There was nothing new or exciting to get people interested in the game. At all

>>30857873
Gen 4 is the only gen with bad online, which is understandable as it was the first.

If you think that SM's online is bad, you're just memeing. Not godlike as gen 6, but it's not bad.


>>30858005
>The reason why no one played it was because of the AWFUL pseduo 3d and overworld that made the game nauseating to play, AND because the new legendaries were boring and the story was boring.

I'd love it if you found an old forum post complaining about this.

Any is fine.

>>30858078
>I'd love it if you found an old forum post complaining about this.
>Any is fine.
Normies dont complain about video games online, especially back in 2010 anon. Most people simply werent interested in it and didnt buy it. The only people who go online and complain about things are people who buy the game and are dissappointed in it

For you
https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=254785

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/56626551

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/60085006

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/anybody-else-find-pokemon-blackwhite-boring-28448341/

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110417200315AAGAbYV

Do you need more

>>30852664
>bringing back bianca and cheren
no. please.

>>30858211
They were a lot better than Hau desu. Nothing is worse than that cuck. You could probably steal his girlfriend in front of him and hed simply laugh and congratulate you for your victory

>>30858158
I don't know majority of the comments in those links except the OPs see BW positively.
And
>Normies dont complain about video games online

>>30858155
Twintails improve everything.

>>30858262
Bianca was a decent character. Cheren is just boring.

>>30858429
Cheren was a good rival. Not edgy, not self loathing, not too cheery.

I'm not sure what's wrong with a level-headed young man.

>>30858630
In short, he was bland.

>>30858630
>Cheren was a good rival
He was terrible. Blue and silver are the only good rivals in the history of pokemon. Everyone else was complete garbage

>>30858703
Add Gladion too

>>30858158
Thank you. BW complaints were a rarity back then, what happened?

>>30858679
There's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone needs to be a special quirky snowflake. That's exactly why I like so much him. There's nothing about him that annoys me, and he's extremely handsome.

>>30858703
Why? I admit I liked them more, but that doesn't means that others are bad.

>>30858778
A rival whose only traits are being average cna't be a rgeat character. He can only be average at most.