Whoah... so this... this is the power... of Pokémon lore... W-Whoa!

File: Cw1WzPAUUAA-K5Z.jpg large.jpg (145KB, 1484x2048px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 1484x2048px

What is this, a diagram of the Connection Orb?

>>30784498
>Necrozma grouped with the UBs instead of with Solgaleo and Lunala
so much effort and they fucked up on something so simple

>Ditto is a failed Mew
>Genesect is Kabutops
>include Necrozma as a UB but not Cosmog
>humans are part of the tree
>dude fanmade sprites lmao
what is this garbage

>>30784498
Three main problems.
First, too much burden is placed on Arceus, and not enough on sub-creations. Related, the Lake Trio plays a crucial role in the development of humans.
The Regis, for example, have no buisness having a direct connection to Arceus when Palkia or Groudon make much more sence to create them. The Muskateers have absolutely no buisness where they are.

Two, Cosmog needs to be over with the Ultra Beasts
>>30784883
Cosmog is in fact an Ultra beast. Not a recent one, so it has adapted to our world. Necrozma would be safe to bundle with them until more lore gets revealed, because of the similarities between necrozma, Solgaleo, and Lunaala.

Third, not enough attention is given to egg groups. Gardevoir has no buisness being so close to primates when it breeds with ghosts and pools of sludge. Magikarp/Gyarados may not be dragons, but they are in the dragon egg group.

Fourth, and this is some technical triggering, nigga. Relicanth is not down the bony fish path, it is right on the divider. The Ceolecanth (or at least the prehistoric cousin to it) is the branch from which things with legs originated. It has protolegs, and "walks" with those funky-ass legfins.

>>30784498
>autism-levels-that-shouldnt-be-possible.jpg

>>30784498
>Putting Lurantis with the mantises.
Look at this fucking idiot.

On inspection there's actually a lot of mistakes on this chart. A lot of the ghost type Pokemon are incorrect, many of them are supposed to have come from the souls of dead humans, like Yamask, or by an object absorbing spiritual power, like Bannette.
I understand the pokedex isn't always right, but they should probably be disconnected from the chart.

File: fishface.png (45KB, 183x200px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 183x200px

>"Carnivores"

>>30784498
No, this is the power of autism.

>>30784498

A couple of things.

>>30785607
>this whole post

also,
>Ludicolo and Venusaur lines are nowhere near the plantlike Pokemon
>The Pyroar line is further down the evolution chain than Incineroar line
>Genesect is Kabuto, but Scyther is fucking unrelated??
>While we're on about fossils, the Carracosta line is supposed to branch off to both Lapras and the Blastoise line
>The Garchomp line is a bony fish? C'mon...
>Monstrum Umbra Solidus
>Meganium is an earlier line than Aurorus
>Aerodactyl has nothing to do with Charizard
>Mawile is closer related to Charizard than Salamence

I could keep going if I wanted to but I'm becoming autistic just by looking at this horrid thing.

File: dennis.png (62KB, 365x515px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 365x515px

>>30784498
benis

>>30786196
nice

>>30786132
>>Aerodactyl has nothing to do with Charizard
Lance begs to differ.

>>30784498
>Sigiliph
>Artificial
???

>>30784498
>>30785607
>>30786132
>Thinking about Egg groups
>Why IS Gardevoir not humanshape, and with the ghosts?
>...
>OH MY FUCKING GOD, GARDEVOIR HAS BEEN A FUCKING DOPPLEGANGER THIS WHOLE TIME IT ONLY LOOKS HUMAN TO LURE YOU IN, IT'S A FUCKING MIMIC, REEEEEEEEEE!

>>30786413
I've known this for years but have chosen to ignore it. Boy am I glad succubi don't actually exist; I'd have lost my soul by now.

>Anthozoa
Barnacles are Arthropods, Sea Lillies are Echinoderms, and Sea Stars are also Echinoderms. Dumbass can't even wiki a few basic phyla.
>Corsola ISN'T an Anthozoa
WHAT THE FUCK
>Wimpod line is with the Trilobita
WHAT THE FUCK
>Slowpoke
>The hermit crab pokemon
>Salamanders
WHAT THE FUCK
>Pineco/Foretress
>Bagworms
>Not Arthropods
COME THE FUCK ON

>>30786413
Gardevoir is a boneless meat sac of necessary organs and a powerful brain in the approximate shape of a human
it uses telekinetic powers to maintain its shape and keep itself upright, similar to Alakazam or a balloon animal

i'd imagine that Ralts-family pokemon that were more humanoid in form were more popular amongst early trainers, and performed better in nature and were more likely to reproduce than sloppier, more Muk-like variants.
I also believe the red component jutting from Gardevoir's chest, Kirlia's head, etc. is possibly the only rigid part of its body and may be the source of its energy and perhaps "brain"

>>30785761
Better put Sudowoodo with the plants with that logic.

>>30786132
>Meganium is an earlier line than Aurorus
A more recently evolved species can die out before an older species.

>>30786196

Underrated post.

>>30784498
No, this is the power of not even fucking trying.

>Lurantis is listed with the mantids
>Scyther, the "Mantis Pokémon," isn't.
For fuck's sake.

I'm a bioinformatics postdoc who spends most of their time working with/to mimic things like clustal to create/bootstrap viral phylogenies as a hobby outside of my main job as an epidemiological data analyst and the in silico analysis of metabolic pathways in various infectious disease bacteria and I think this is pretty autistic.
So
Well
Fuck.

>>30786710
I can't tell if you agree with the post or not, but for everyone's sake this is the inspiration of Lurantis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudocopulation
Its not based off of a orchid mantis but instead an orchids that resembles an insect to attract pollinators who try to mate with it.

>>30784498
>Salandit and Salazzle are in the salamanders
>Salazzle is called the Poison Lizard Pokemon
???

File: PokemonTreeOfLifeRevised.png (3MB, 5657x5266px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5657x5266px

I've actually been working on a revision of this thing myself. It's not complete (no Tapus or UBs) but it's built from a rigorous methodology. There are only a few designations I'm still iffy about (and a few I did mostly out of my own preference i.e. Makuhita is in the fairy line because it looks morphologically similar to Mawile).

I'm in the middle of replacing the large sprites with menu sprites so I can finish putting in labels.

Obviously I'm open to suggestions.

>>30787066
How is it? Thinking about going into bioinformatics

>>30787126
Actually I think they just decided to make it a monograss type since it would suck even more ass if it had a 4x weakness to fire. Bug/grass isn't good typing wise and the signature move of lurantis is a variant of solar beam so that typing wouldn't be good at all for sunny day.
Not really disagreeing with this, but I'm 90% sure the ORIGINAL inspiration was an orchid mantis, they just changed their mind and instead pretended it was a plant mimicking a bug.

>>30787195
Deoxys is from outer space, which is not the same thing as being related to Space itself with Palkia.
Deoxys is more appropriately listed amongst the other extra terrestrials.

>>30787343
That becomes problematic when trying to designate it as a mythical pokemon. But I suppose the space pokemon are mysterious enough for it to not be too much of a concern.

>>30787433
its exceedingly rare, so what
Diancie is a Mythical, but its related to Carbink

>>30787215
Do it. There are fuck all people who can even process a fucking microarray.
I came at it from the bio side, so I'm not 100% with my programming a lot of the time. I.e. it's pretty much all R, Python, Perl and then later on working with someone who knows a real language better than me when necessary.
Hobby bioinformatics has a great community.
The other good thing about this is that my fiancee is an analyst and it overlaps so fucking much with the intuitive style of problem solving you're free to use one you get past "muh smith-waterman" level shit. That said.. Genome assemblies are a bitch.
But that might be different now, and it really depends where you end up. I end up spending a fair amount of time helping grad students because there are often a lot of large projects I wouldn't feel confident tackling with the limited programming - however, I'm often consulting on flowcharting the process and there are always people to help bridge particular knowledge gaps.

>>30787195
One thing to note: I've actually moved the slakoth line out of the muscle-y hominid group and down into group with sandslash and heatmor.

>>30787488
That is true, I suppose.

>>30787195
I'm curious to know why you didn't put Arceus at the center of the fancy creation circle that was introduced at in the same event that had Arceus make an egg of one of the creation trio.

No confrontation intended, just seems a bit odd.

>>30784498
>Barbaracle in Cnidaria
Barnacles are crustaceans, not coral.

>>30786344
idk what Lance would say but I meant that Aerodactyl SHOULD have something to do with Charizard. It's hard to see but in the OP they are not even close.

>>30787766
Arceus is set outside but connected to the lesser creation legendaries. Essentially, Arceus created them, then they created everything else.

>>30787833
So the idea is that the outer circle is a representation of their all encompassing power over the other legends? Sounds neat I suppose.

>>30787195
Why is Scyther, the "Mantis Pokémon," not closer to Leavanny?

>>30787011
This was my biggest problem with it but I still admire the effort and dedication put into this. It's amazing that even if it's wrong in the mind of the person who made it it makes sense.

>>30787195
I personally think you should make some revisions based on typing. Nothing major but I believe all the electric rodents should be placed into a monophyletic clade. I feel we can assume all the pikaclones had a common ancestor that was capable of producing electricity and all of its decedents should share the trait.

>>30787195
Obviously real world and pokemon world are different but I keep wondering about grass types. Are they generally morw of a symbiotic relationship (ie bulbasaur are reptiles that have plants attached to them OR are they a different branch where the plant and animal are a single entity?

>>30787531
>I've actually moved the slakoth line out of the muscle-y hominid group
good call

I think I'm going to put Charizard back into the true dragons. I put it with the theropods because of charmander and charmeleon's morphologies, but I'm starting to think more and more that I should focus on the characteristics of the most advanced natural evolution stage and treat the earlier stages as adolescent forms. This will all be easier to change once I have the sprites switched out.

>>30787865
The outer circle represents the fundamental components of reality. All other legendaries fall within the constraints of reality, so they lie within the circle. The mythical pokemon outside the circle with arceus all represent metaphysical concepts; i.e. art, victory, etc.

>>30788030
I considered typing secondary to morphology when adjusting the cladogram, but I do see now that the pikaclones hew very close to real world cladistics (though this is an artifact of using the 6th Gen fan tree of life as a base). I'll have to have a really long think about how that should be resolved. Good point.

>>30788245
I think any pokemon whose primary physical characteristics are plant-like can be thought of as plant-like pokemon, and any pokemon that looks like it's related to other non-plant-like pokemon, just with a plant attached, can be thought of a symbiotic.

>>30785987
Carnivora is an actually mammalian group

they're all represented by the feature of canine teeth

>>30788396
Typing should definitely be secondary to morphology which should itself be secondary to egg groups, but the Pikaclones are so obviously intended to be related that they ought to be grouped together.

>>30784498
>OP blurred the picture because it said "www.reddit.com/r/pokemon" in it

Admit it, anon. You are clearly an avid redditor. Get your dirty ass out of this place.

>fearow and pelipper
>passerine
Fearow is a ciconiiform and Pelipper is a pelecaniform

>>30788724
Also, Staraptor should be grouped with the birds of prey, if other three-stage lines that evolve from passeriformes are being thrown there

>>30787195
A few comments.
Metagross line should be a natural machine. It follows those traits far better than it does things like Chimecho, to the point that just like Magnemite and Klink, its evolutions are literally just conglomerations of individuals.
Paras may warrant a special link between fungi and where it is.
Gyarados and magikarp present a problem, since Gyarados doesn't really fit with fish, and Magikarp doesn't fit with snakes or dragons.
A possible answer could be creating a branch off of Fish that just has sea serpents in them. It may or may not branch off into a few other dragon families as well.
Charizard and Garchomp need to break off separately from Axew and such, probably closer to the bagon line.

>>30788030
This is very good. I like this.

On to pure autism with the legendaries, much of which is unsubstantiated headcannon.
Deoxys and Palkia have nothing to do with eachother.
I believe it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest Palkia (matter) produced Groudon and Kyogre. Groudon would likely then be subsidiary producer of Regigigas, and maybe Heatran (Heatran may also fit into Dialga's pantheon, or into Zygarde's subgroup), while Kyogre maybe produced Manaphy.
Dialga (Time/Energy/Change) would likely be the producer of Articuno, Moltres, and Zapdos (Remember the birds correspond to the changing of seasons)
Giratina (Balance/antimatter) I could see as responsible for the likes of Lugia and Rayquaza

Zygarde is basically the will of the planet. Enough energy and matter came together making the planet that it developed a consciousness unto itself, and needed a way to act on the world. Zygarde is thus technically a creation of Arceus/Creation Trio, but an independent one.
Heatran may also fit here as a sentiant heart of a volcano.

Hoopa might be outside of Arceus' creation entirely. Hoopa might have literally poofed itself into existence.
Deoxys is unkown. It's from elsewhere in the universe, put it with the aliens.

>>30788574
And Pokemon are not actual animals. None of them are carnivores. They're omnivorous at best.

>>30789122
Carnivora=/=Carnivore
Lots of real wolves and coyotes and shit eat plenty of seeds and berries. Most things are actually functioning omnivores, except shit like cows who don't actually get their energy from grass, but from bacteria.

>>30789215
Well I guess I'm just retarded

>>30789244
Don't worry too much. Remember, most scientists would fit our classification of autism, and exist mostly in a community of other autists that-
Fuck it. Taxonomists literally work in /vp/, but with animals instead and fewer /b/ memes.

I feel that a lot of legendaries should be dispersed through the regular evolution. Can you honestly say Heatran, Volcanion, the Muskadeers, or Shaymin actually have anything truly "special" about them? It's good that stuff like Genesect and Diancie are already sorted out, but not every legendary/mythical is beginning-of-time/space tier.

>>30789383
This. If we made one for real animals, with legendary animals on them, Bigfoot wouldn't be at the beginning of creation. It would be down with what it looked like.

File: aaaax.png (719KB, 727x465px) Image search: [Google]

719KB, 727x465px

>>30784498
ash grenjinja

>volcanion shoehorned with the legends
>no actual role
poor guy

>>30784498

Couple issues:

>It's stated directly in Yamask's Pokedex entry that it's derived from humans: it should be grouped after them, and not the other ghosts
>Staryu/Starmie have the same biology as Deoxys, which means that either they're in the same category as it, or Deoxys is in the same category as them.

>>30790501
Starmie is a starfish (or at least a macroorganism) while Deoxys is a virus.

>>30786413

If anything, given that the closest human relative among Pokemon (Yamask) is also in the amorphous group, Humans are more closely related to piles of sludge and ghosts than they are to humanshapes like Mr. Mime.

>>30790560

Both Starmie and Deoxys are centered around a crystalline organ with psychic abilities. Some Pokedex entries theorize Starmie also comes from space.

The resemblance between the two is even bigger when you compare Staryu to Deoxys.

The author posts this on reddit. I know >le reddit but there is some good criticism of it here as well, if you want to update it yourself instead of waiting for the creator:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/5icwmu/new_generation_new_tree_of_life/

>>30790593
it is a very noticeable similarity, make no mistake, but the difference between a virus and whatever Starmie is just can't be discounted. Maybe they have a similar homeworld, maybe alien life that falls to Pokearth performs a scan and determines the optimal forms are either a cutemon, a floating rock, or a crystaline core, maybe Starmie and Deoxys just have the same wardrobe crew, but they aren't the same lifeform.

>>30786196
kek'd

>>30790501
>>30790560
>>30790593
More about this...
1. A ton of ghost pokemon are said to be dead humans in the pokedex including Gengar and Phantum.
2. According to the stupid ass pokedex again, Deoxys was created by a mysterious laser fired into space. A few people have the fan theory that the laser was the same one fired into space in X and Y. I don't know how that may fit into the idea that Starmie and Deoxys are related but it definitely complicates it..

File: DUDDURUU ;D.jpg (50KB, 273x272px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 273x272px

>>30786196
fug :DDDD

>>30785607
>Relicanth is not down the bony fish path, it is right on the divider. The Ceolecanth (or at least the prehistoric cousin to it) is the branch from which things with legs originated. It has protolegs, and "walks" with those funky-ass legfins
Sarcopterygians (coelacanths, lungfish, and tetrapods) still count as bony fish. Bony fish is Sarcopterygia + Actinopterygia (all other living fish that aren't sharks/etc. or jawless fish)

>>30786569
Wimpod and Golisopod are wharf roaches, which are isopods.

>>30787195
Sandslash is a pangolin, which is actually the sister group to Carnivora, weirdly enough.
Anorith is an Anomalocaridid/Radiodontan, not a trilobite.

>>30787195
Deoxys is actually a mutated virus from space. Because viruses are nonliving molecular parasites, deoxys belongs in its own tier.

>>30784908

No Alolan forms

>>30787195 fungus should come before the animal-like pokemon distinction, i really like the aesthetic of your diagram

File: Pokémon SE5 EP262 - Slowking! King`s Rock!.avi_snapshot_13.59_[2016.03.04_16.25.51].jpg (40KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 640x480px

>>30787195

Nice, I wish they tied Shelder/Cloyster with Slowpoke/Slowbro line

>>30784498
Muk, Weezing and Garbodor aren't artificial, rather they originated from human waste, which is why they are gendered.

>>30794017

Could you make your own pokemon?

>>30794017
So... did a female Muk come from sludge that had a tampon in it?

>>30788984

>Charizard and Garchomp need to break off separately from Axew and such, probably closer to the bagon line.
Charizard is going to be moved back to the true dragons. They're distinguished by the presence of six limbs (four terrestrial limbs and two wings). Axew shares features with the dinosaur groups and doesn't possess the extra limbs necessary to classify it as a true dragon.
>Gyarados and magikarp present a problem, since Gyarados doesn't really fit with fish, and Magikarp doesn't fit with snakes or dragons.
Gyarados may be dragon-inspired but it still clearly has a fish morphology.
>Paras may warrant a special link between fungi and where it is.
Paras is not likely very closely related to it's fungus. Just because one is parasite to the other doesn't mean they should be classified together on an evolutionary cladogram.
>Metagross line should be a natural machine. It follows those traits far better than it does things like Chimecho, to the point that just like Magnemite and Klink, its evolutions are literally just conglomerations of individuals.
I understand the concern, but does Metagross arise naturally from artificial environments? Because that's the main criteria I established for the natural machines group.

>>30793970
As with paras, just because Slowpoke and Shellder evolve commensally doesn't mean they are closely related evolutionarily.

>>30789323
>>30789383
Bigfoot is a cryptid which supposedly evolved from other species. Legendary and mythical pokemon are literally unique mystical creatures with no mortal analog. That's why you can't breed them.

>>30787868
Because, despite what the pokedex says, Scyther is not a mantis.

>>30787300
It's a joke. They intentionally did the opposite of what's found in real life, they didn't "change their minds"

>>30790501
Pokedex shouldn't have any meaning in the life tree

Real life cladistics don't pay attention to myths and legends: the pokedex is basically a legend compendium what with the totally contradictory and nonsensical stuff

>Magcargo is hotter than the sun

>>30795713
Legendaries can't be bred because then they'd be way too fucking common and easy to obtain. In-story you can rationalize it as some being unwilling to breed in captivity, and some as being unique gods or whatever.

>>30796034
They are unique entities not connected to the biological continuum of the tree of life. The very fact that they don't breed precludes them from it. You can't have evolution without reproduction.

>>30796123
Some of them like Kyogre or Palkia of course, but things like Lati@s or Heatran clearly arose naturally, and are just rare and powerful. For most minor legendaries they don't bother adding a gender since they can't breed. Or, you could argue that something like an Arcticuno does not react pleasantly to some kid poking around its genitals to figure out what sex it is.

>>30796236
Arising naturally doesn't mean they fit into the later parts of the cladogram. They would have to have evolved from a previous species. Considering their unique status, genderlessness, and/or centuries-long mythical connections, it just makes more sense to call them something separate from the tree of life.

I'm pretty sure that Darwinian evolution does not apply to Pokemon, otherwise Alolan Marowak should give birth to Alolan Cubone.

File: (You).png (177KB, 501x506px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 501x506px

>>30796400
>fossils pokemon
>human and pokemon "were the same thing" in the past according to DPPt lore
>alolan forms

>darwinian evolution doesn't apply to Pokemon

>>30787300
Fomantis is literally faux mantis.
Lurantis = lure mantis

>>30796504
The existence of fossils does not prove evolution on its own you tard. In our world it does, because of the geological strata they're found in and because they represent transitional forms and/or common ancestors, but these concepts are not present in the Pokemon world. Fossil Pokemon are just things that used to exist but now don't.

Humans and Pokemon 'being the same thing' in the past might just refer to the big bang, doesn't necessarily reference evolution.

>>30796400
Alolan Marowak is more an example of specific behavior; that's the reason a lot of people here don't take typings seriously for the tree of life, as the typing arises as a result of combat interactions, not an inherent evolutive process

This is the best thread this board has had in years. Keep going.

>>30796615
>"There once were Pokémon that married people."
>"There once were people who married Pokémon."
>"This was a normal thing because long ago people and Pokémon were the same."

>might just refer to the big bang
Are you fucking retarded?

>>30796825
I didn't remember the lore exactly, but that still doesn't prove Darwinian evolution in the slightest.

>>30796825
>>30796973
Also these were 'folk tales'. Hardly conclusive evidence.

>>30784498
>Unown whimsically sprinkled around Giratina teehe
Stopped reading right there.

>>30784908
Mew can transform into different pokemon. Cinnabar is the location of a burnt mansion where text documents on mew and the creation of mewtwo are located. It is highly likely the mansion was destroyed by mewtwo. Thus finding ditto in the mansion is highly likely a reference to how ditto is a failed clone of mew. Ditto can easily spread out to different regions due to it's ability to transform. How are there infinite dittos? Nobody knows.

>>30797525
Wew

I hope you're joking