What went wrong?

Its only for doubles. Ew.

Beast Ball Porygon2

>>30754965
The prize money for winning the whole thing is shit. If it were like $1 million, I'd be motivated in a heartbeat.

>Doubles
>Cheaters
>Shit casters
etc etc

They allow PKHex generated mon's and do no background checking whatsoever.

This is why competitive battling is a joke.

>>30755406
You literally cannot detect a legit made Pkhex mon. Their background checking is fucking atrocious though, how does a beast ball porygon2 get in at all?

>>30755433
The fact that beast balls transfer through breeding with ditto unlike master/cherish balls means that they'd potentially penalize legitimate players who just happened to get an illegal ball parent over GTS or wonder trade, breed it, and end up with a legit offspring in an illegal ball. Not everyone knows balltism legality. That's why in ball checks they only look for inappropriate master/cherish balls.

>>30754965

Trying to make a competitive game out of something with a significant luck factor and an autistic fanbase (like >>30754994
>>30755319 >>30755406)

>>30755515
Sounds like your mother probably should of aborted you

>>30754965
You

Because it's a tournament people are going to find a way to get the most competitive pokemon available. Game freak has consistently failed to make it so competitive pokemon are easy to obtain and universally available, so we have pkhex. They almost fixed it. VGC battles take place at level 50, and grinding to that level isn't much of a time sink. But of course, bottle caps only work at 100, so there isn't any time saved there either

>but breeding!
where do you people think those 6IV dittos are coming from?

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>>30755514
DITTO. CANNOT. PASS BALLS DOWN. The male can now pass their ball down if bred with a ditto, but the ditto ball is never transferred. Injectors don't know this because they don't breed. Been waiting a long time but I'm starting to agree with anons. Comepetive is a joke.

tPCI needs to reorient the way that you can breed and minmax pokemon. The shitty thing about the scene is that if they gave a CaD to PKHex or started running thourough checks then it would be discovered that all the tope players in all divisions are injecting pokemon. Even worse they can change their battle boxes mid competition which is only possible through hacking. Basically, tPCI needs to either streamline everything a la showdown or they need to totally deconstruct the VGC and rebuild, which I wouldn't mind.

Not to mention that Gen 6's toxic metagame is going to come back next month, which is a totally different point.

>>30755811
>Not to mention that Gen 6's toxic metagame is going to come back next month, which is a totally different point.

Do you even understand what Alola Dex means?

>>30755733
It's hilarious how injectors don't know anything about the game. A lot of them are still stuck in gen 4 and think breeding good Pokemon take weeks.

They don't know what they are even cheating themselves out of.

>Play basketball in a league where everyone has to wear special black socks
>You can only get these socks by sitting in the stands and watching 500 games
>Someone just brings black socks and plays, no one notices they're not from the league
>No issues
>Someone else accidentally brings otherwise identical socks but they're brown
>"THIS FUCKING CHEATER! DON'T THEY KNOW THE FUCKING RULES! I HAD TO WATCH 500 FUCKING GAMES TO GET MY LEGIT SOCKS AND THIS ASSHOLE THINKS HE CAN PLAY WITH OBVIOUSLY WRONG SOCKS? FUCKING BAN THIS IDIOT FOR CHEATING!"

>>30755871
Next month bank opens up. Maybe VGC will limit it to Alolan Dex, but by and large the bank update will bring back P-Groudon and the genies.

>>30755406

I mean how would they check anyway, other than the flop that was beast ball porygon what else would they need to look for? A person who knows how to Pkhex properly can't be caught

>>30755880
I know you spent a long time thinking that up, but that's a really bad metaphor. Injection is literally cheating because it gives you the advantage of not spending time grinding out mons.

>>30755871
Yeah but think about this

>SM has the largest list of unobtainable Pokemon by far
>no move tutors

This means that in order to get a competitive team (non-VGC) going, you'd have to literally go back and play gen 6 90% of the time, because you need good tutor moves in nearly every set, and most Pokemon are unavailable in SM.
It's terrible design to require to go back and play the old and busted previous gen to access most of the strategy available.

>>30755880
>verlisify's entire channel

>>30755890
Anon this thread is about VGC, nothing to do with Free Battle or Smogon Dubs

>>30755938
See >>30755928

>>30755920

So if I have a friend just give me my Pokemon, then I'm also cheating? That's also giving me the advantage of not spending time grinding out the mons.

>>30755928
That's why they're gonna sell another game in the same generation with more Pokémon and tutors

>>30755969
Thats using the game's mechanics. If they injected it using a 3rd party program like PKHex is is cheating. This is easy, I know you can understand this shit.

>>30755733
Minior and Magnezone say otherwise.

Genderless parents when breed with ditto pass the ball. A genned Porygon can pass its ball to its offspring.

>>30755928
Now this is valid criticism, if someone is by themselves they won't have access to a lot of moves and combos that will probably be relevant.

It certainly won't be as bad as '16 though, the powercreep isn't as ridiculous this time.

Some of the cancer from previous gens has been nerfed too in case new games brings them back.

>>30755999
It's cheating the breeding part which nobody actually cares about. Battling is what matters.

Checking Bulbapedia, serebii and similar is a much worse form of cheating than injection, as it gives you the advantage of getting information in an unfair way, instead of learning from the game.

>>30756059
Somebody spent time breeding it. This is really common among groups of players who play competitively and legitimately. You are grasping at straws. What is cheating is injecting or otherwise altering game data to instantly create a pokemon and using it in competition.

>>30756085
This amount of mental gymnastics has to be the work of the Jew

>>30756002

Genderless can't be in anything but a Poké Ball until Bank though, since only Porygon in game is a gift in a standard ball.

Bank allows you to transfer catchatble Porygon from Gen 4-6 but none of those can be in Apricorn balls or Beast Balls.

>>30755909
Location and date the pokemon was caught + trainer hours is one way.

If you have have a full lvl 100 6 perfect IV shiny mon team and only played for 40 hours, you're full of shit.

>>30756085
Boy you sure are a clever person.

CHECK OUT THESE HEALTHY, FAIR AND BALANCED DOUBLES

>>30756085
The only legal move is not to play

never have I ever seen a community defend literal cheating in a competitive game

>inb4 hurr durr it's a kids game based off rng anyway, who cares?
How does this relate to cheating in anyway?

>>30756002
How do you catch porygon with beast ball in the first place retard?
It's a gift pokemon

>>30756149
It's a sick form of mental gymnastics. They've convinced themselves it's a legitimate playstyle and tPCI has all buy encouraged it outright.

>>30755999

Again, go back to my metaphor. Having to sit through 500 games is mind numbing and boring, and you sitting there watching the game isn't going to make you any better at actually playing it. You could just use your own black socks and actually get to play the game.

It's also silly to get upset over the brown socks, because while it's a tell that the person is breaking the rules, it still does not confer any sort of competitive advantage. A person with brown socks (or black socks that they just brought themselves instead of having to sit through the 500 games) is not going to shoot more accurately, run faster, or do anything else in the game better than someone with black socks they got the legitimate way.

>>30755928
Just a reminder, tutor moves are irrelevant because pentagon mons are no longer usable.

There's a good amount of breeding moves that require transfer though.

>>30756108
Nothing you said contradicts my point. It is cheating the RNG grindfest of getting perfect Pokemon which has little to do with actual battling portion. Definitely cheating but so what.

>>30755874
>They don't know what they are even cheating themselves out of.
Oh yes I'm SOOOO sad to miss out on bike simulator hawaii edition.

>>30756203
It's not cheating because the pokemon is legitimate. If you got a 6IV Celesteel on WT and used it, and it's not injected, then it's legit to use. My point is that using game mechanics is fair game. If the time was spent by someone, then there isn't an issue.

>>30756178
Your metaphore is still bad. Injection is cheating because you're using a hacked device and running a 3rd party program to create pokemon from scratch. If you can't see how fabricating a pokemon from a pirated device is cheating then move on.

>>30756239
What if the Pokemon was generated by someone spending time on it legitimately, but it's cloned?

>>30756276
That is also using the game's mechanics, I suppose. But cloning is pretty hard if it is even possible this gen.

>>30756276
If I took ur mum's cells, made a clone and then proceeded to fuck that clone...

Did I really fuck ur mum?

>>30756268
But how is it cheating when the generated pokemon is entirely within the bounds of legal stats? How does this create a skill disadvantage?

>>30756322
Because it's injected. The advantage is in time spent. You have an advantage over people playing legitimately. That is the definition of cheating.

>>30756268

Injecting is cheating in the same way that jaywalking is breaking the law

Injecting is like hiring major league players so your power plant's softball team can win the city championships

>>30756354
So it's totally cheating in other words?

>>30756389

As in technically it is, but you'd have to be a special kind of autistic to think that it's worth getting upset when people do it

>>30756354
So it's like breaking the rules to save time, except no one gets punished for it.

Sounds about right, but jaywalking is still breaking the law and hacking is still cheating.

>>30756389
I think he means "Good luck getting anyone to enforce it unless you manage to fuck it up colossaly"
>>30756434
Indeed.

>injecting instead of breeding is cheating because it is advantageous to not spend mind-numbing hours playing RNG Tauros simulator

Wow I can't even comprehend the amount of autism in this thread.

>>30756432
You are being autistic by virtue of the fact that you are trying to legitimize the cheating. Just because it saves time does not make it fair. The exact opposite is true. If I raise a perfect team from scratch it'll probably take at least a week. Same thing can be don in minutes by an injector. Tell me that doesn't create a desparity between people who play the game using the intended mechanic and people who use devices and programs to circumvent playing the game.

>>30756496
>it is advantageous to not spend mind-numbing hours playing RNG Tauros simulator

Yep, it is.

>>30756337
How exactly is cutting down the time you spend on a game "cheating" if it provides the exact same outcome? It doesn't give you any advantage whatsoever in battling and simply playing the game. Also, with bottle caps, the time difference has been decreased significantly anyways.

A better analogy would be that you ask your friend to race you to McDonalds, and on the way he takes a shortcut. You then get pissed about it, because shortcuts are against the "spirit of the game".

>>30756501
Legit players should test out teams before breeding them.That's what Showdown is for.

>>30756558
Stop trying to make analogies, you clearly can't. It doesn't matter if the pokemon are perfectly viable if you did breed them. The fact that you cheated to get it is what makes it cheating. How many time do we need to go over this? Just because it saves time does not make it fair, Ill say it again.

>>30756565
That's 100% beside the point. Showdown is not a part of the discussion.

>>30756545
Must be fun REEEEEEEing in your free time (if you have any left after all the running around hatching eggs)

>>30756657
Have fun cheating and devaluing the game for everyone!

no 6v6

>>30756111
you can change playtime amount

>>30756591
No one is being hurt by genned pokemon that are identical to bred ones. Only legit pokemon can compete, so you wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway

>>30756591

You argument seems to boil down to "all cheating is bad" when most of the other people you're arguing with have the argument of "this particular cheating is inconsequential". Perhaps if you wanted to refute their argument, you could try saying something other than "I'm right and you're stupid for not believing what I believe".

Hey can any of the breeders ITT tell me where they got the 6 IV ditto they use

>>30756591
In what way does breeding take skill? Breeding and EV training are just time sinks. People like me who generate pokemon and use them have no advantage over you in game because the pokemon we're using could be identical, with the only difference being you spend hours to get yours the way you wanted while I spend 5 minutes in Pokehex.

>>30756788
IVs are inherited between both parents, you don't need one with six you retard, both having three is enough to work, any more is just a bonus

>>30756757
>>30756756

Cheating in competition is against the rules. That's what I'm saying. Even if they aren't authenticated then it devalues the experience of those who play as intended. I know you really like to be able to play without spenind time breeding/grinding. I get it. I understand why. But if you don't understand how injection isn't fair to those who play the game as intended then there isn't an argument. The topic of the thread is "what is wrong with VGC". In my opinion, what's wrong with VGC is that people who inject are consistently in the top rankings and are given preferential treatment because they are good players. The pokemon they use, however, are against the rules. It's a clear double standard and it needs to be fixed, wither on the tournament end or through the game itself.

I'm not some drone who's just spouting "it's against the rules!" Sportsmaship is non-existant in VGC because there is no investment other than what it takes to learn battling and going out to completion, which is only half of what committed players who don't inject need to do to be competitively viable.

The issue ultimately lies in the fact that cheating is HUGELY preferential by ll stardards, but it's not the way the game is supposed to be played per the mechanics of the game itself and the rules.

tl;dr Cheating is bad but everyone does it so people feign ignorance.

>>30756788
>All breeders use 6IVs Dittos

>>30756914
no

>>30756681
If anything, people who inject a lot make the game better for everyone as they test a lot of different teams and combinations, making the field and fights more fun and varied. People who breed just do it for their masturbatory prideful fantasy world, not doing anything good for the community.

>>30756807
Never said it takes skill, it takes time.

Honestly, my issue has always been with people who inject to get 6IV correct nature legendaries, or other Pokemon that you can't breed. I think it's one thing to inject, like, a Rowlet or some shit, because I could sit down right now and get a 5IV one at least with the right nature and be done tonight. It annoys me, sure, that someone else could do it in minutes but it doesn't piss me off.

But UBs, legendaries, etc.? That pisses me off because that is a MUCH larger time sink if you tried to do that legitmately. Imagine trying to legitimately get a fucking Tapu Koko with right nature and 6IVs. Can you even begin to imagine how realistically nigh impossible that is?

The VGC is an absolute joke, and shame on Gamefreak too because how hard can it fucking be to make their games able to detect PKhx Pokemon. And honestly, I've been saying this for years, shame on them for allowing legendaries in the fucking first place. Imo, it should be restricted solely to non-legendary (and now non-UB) mons.

>>30756918
Well I was told breeding was super easy now because of 6 IV ditto and I just wanted to know how people were getting them

>>30756925
Or, alternatively, people breed instead of injecting because it's a part of the game, which PkHex isn't.

>>30756788
I got a 4IV through SOS chaining (easier than it sounds) to start off with, then I bred my first team with him until they were all 5 IV (by parent swapping).

This took a while, but now I have six 5IV Pokemon in different egg groups, meaning I can get new Pokemon even faster in those egg groups and beyond eventually. I even got a 6 IV Mareanie out of sheer luck with that final IV, and her egg group is pretty large.

>>30756934
This is the real BS. Stuff like 5 IV groudon with 0 Speed are obviously hacked.

>>30756934
>Xurkitree with Hidden Power Ice, 5IVs and right nature

Literally impossible for anyone to achieve. But at least there's Hyper Training now, which is a pain in the ass due to the level 100 requirement but at least you CAN get a perfect legendary legit now.

>>30756964
>This took a while
And this is why injection will always be around. The majority of the playerbase are university students who aren't going to put up with the grind when you can get legit stuff from a qr code in 5 minutes

>>30756959
that part of the game is bad and I only want to battle, fuck you

>>30757042
That doesn't mean it's good or fair.

Are all VGC threads gonna be all about this shit from now on? Can't you guys make your own shitposting general and leave the people who actually wanna talk about VGC alone?

>>30757060
Then just stay on Showdown and don't bother with the actual game instead of cheating and then trying to justify it

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>>30757060

>>30757064
>>30757077
I think he's joking.

>>30756936
Those are certainly hacked too, feigning ignorance is retarded.

You can easily go around breeding without a Dittos long as it's not something genderless. As you breed you start getting perfect parents for all the egg groups, the fact that some mons share more than one make it even easier.

There used to be a pic that showed some specific mons you would need to have perfect parents for all the groups.

Now egg moves are more specific and can be a pain in the ass, even more if they require chain breeding.

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>anti cheaters
y'all are something else for caring this much

>>30757097
I think chaining for egg moves is one of the more fun aspects of breeding, far more fun than fucking arbitrary IVs.

I love the concept of egg moves. If I only had to breed for egg moves and nature I wouldn't find the system bad at all.

>>30757128
For wanting an even playing field? Ok.

>>30756111
Date pokemon is caught is dependent on the 3DS internal clock, so it could be anything and still be legal due to the possibilty of the 3DS date being set wrong

>>30757061
I'm not arguing that it is, but to expect anything less in a competitive environment is delusional

>>30756002
I think he was saying that the Ditto's ball is never passed down.

>>30757152
You mean a fair playing field.

Technically an even playing field is when everyone hacks, because of the effort required to get perfect teams.

>>30757175
I disagree. The delusion is in the fanbase that justifies cheating and the company that refuses to ensure that people aren't cheating within official competitions.

>>30757076
>>30757077
I never even played VGC, I hack some mons in for some random battle spot and play showdown.

You breederfags are retarded for wasting time on Game Freak's shit gameplay.

>>30757187
Even playing field is the same thing you dolt. It's even if nobody hacks, too.

>>30757213
This is a thread about flaws in VGC, it has nothing to do with you.

>>30757193
Because as long as the generated pokemon is within legal IV/EV/move/ball limits nothing can be proved. It's incredibly unlikely that a 6 IV celesteela is legit, but how do you prove it was created by a third party app?

>Well because it's extremely unlikely
If that's the case, then why bother having it in the format? What makes for a "believable" pokemon? Do you start banning anything with more than X perfect IVs?

>>30757193
There isn't anyway to detect hacks though unless the person creating it messes up. It's easier than ever. Previous gen had things like trashbytes and nature and IVs being affected by PID. You'd have to be really dumb to mess up outside of illegal balls.

>>30757214
But if nobody hacks then those with more time to efficiently put into training Pokemon will have an advantage.

You could say this is how the game was mean to be and you'd likely be right, but you can also argue the competition wouldn't be that even when only those with a lot of spare time can get through the barrier of entry.

>>30757299
I'd rather that shit wasn't in the format, anyway

>>30757299
Look, if ultimately your concern is if you get caught or not that is a different thing. In a perfect world, there would be no hacking because there would be a more efficient way of building teams. That doesn't legitimize injected teams imo. It's just one of the glaring flaws with the VGC and the game at large.

VGC fuckers don't even actually play pokemon, they're only interested in the prizes

>>30757316
That's fine, because like real games and sports it's time in and you gain from that invested time.

>>30757214

Actually, if no one hacked then the playing field would be skewed towards people who have more spare time.

Either way, whether or not a player hacks says nothing about the skill level of that player. You can argue they get more practice in because they can jump straight into games instead of grinding for hours just to have the tools to play, but that isn't even necessarily a guarantee that the hacker will use that time to develop that skill. I play League of Legends, and on my Bronze smurf I see people who have been in Bronze for 6 years and hundreds if not thousands of games played. If practice made perfect they'd be on a pro team by now.

>>30756914
>Sportsmaship is non-existant in VGC because there is no investment other than what it takes to learn battling and going out to completion, which is only half of what committed players who don't inject need to do to be competitively viable.

Sounds too bad for you that VGC involves battling, and not being graded on how well you run around on Tauros and switch parents out every so often, just to mindlessly kill 50 wingull in a row after.
Yes, that is commitment

>>30757359
But people are inherently better than you at Lol if that is the case. You're limited by your own skill. If you feel that if you had more time you could be pro, quit your job and focus on that.

>>30757345

Yes because the truly great prizes which help maybe a fraction of a percent of players recoup their losses in even getting to events are the sole motivating factor for all VGC players

>>30755733
No shit, reread what I wrote. What if they just get a BB Porygon, don't know that it's illegal because only hyper-autists memorize this shit, then breed it with their ditto? Do you just ban them from the tournament because of a very stupid technicality and say 'GG kid should have memorized ball legality before breeding things from GTS'? Is that going to make Pokemon a better competitive game?

>>30755874
You're fucking retarded. I'm cheating myself out of running around in a circle for 30-45 minutes until I get my 1/30 chance 6IV (assuming you have an injected ditto, 'legit' breedcuck, otherwise IV breeding is a LOT more tedious) doing some quick grinding for EVs then running the E4 like 60 times to get a pokemon to 100. Oh wow what a great game experience, so sad that I don't have to do that and can just instantly create any sets I make on showdown, have fun in battlespot/VGC ladders with them, then wondertrade them to some japanese kid when I'm done with them.

>>30756168
>>30756110
Yeah, but there's plausible deniability. Not everyone is autistic enough to know which pokemon are gift only until bank, someone could get a Porygon over GTS/WT that was in a beast ball, then breed it with their ditto, and it would keep the hacked Porygon's ball while being a legit porygon in all other facets.

>>30757064
Breedfags and terrible analogies date back to 2013

>>30757431

I'd argue it only really got bad in 2014 with Dream Ball Aegislash

>>30756934
>all the Thundurus with perfect Hidden Power Water IVs in VGC 16, which would be subpar in any other metagame

Im curious if any frequently used pokemon in past VGC were using Coloseum/XD exclusive moves. Now those are just impossible to reset for

>>30757466

These weren't allowed from XY onward, but in 2013 you had shit like Follow Me Magmar with perfect IVs being used by Se Jun Park

>>30757466
Colloseum/XD is the only way to get Dusclops with Seismic Toss/Helping Hand so probably.

Injecting in VGC isn't as bad as you think. There is not much time required to breed 6 mons you desire; since there are a lot of Pokeautists, I can easily imagine people paying them to breed a team of 6 if hacks weren't allowed at all and there were definite ways to catch it. Of course there is no law that disallows hacking in private, so injecting a bunch of mons for testing should be encouraged to improve before the tournament.

>>30757334
It's a competition, if you aren't optimizing the team to the legal limit then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.
I can't speak for other VGC players but I don't "enjoy" getting all my shit through PKHeX. I REALLY don't enjoy having to run around on Tauros/grind to level 100 in SM six times over. There happens to be an alternative that takes less time, so I opt for that. At the very least it seems we both agree that the teambuilding format in game is absolute garbage holding the competitive scene back.

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>>30757345
>the prizes
>he thinks VGC actually has meaningful prizes

There are DotA2 tournaments for tier 10 teams with bigger prize pools than VGC worlds.

>>30757518
Chansey with Seismic Toss is exclusive to an event-only one back during Gen 3 also so... lel

>>30757570
Yeah sure it's not a HUGE amount of time to breed mons you want, unlike back in earlier gens, but consider perfect IV perfect natured legendaries and UBs that are fucking allowed for some reason

and the fact that gamefreak is too retarded to make their games able to detect hacking/injecting

>>30757570
>hacking is in some way definitely stopped
>an entire economy of Pokeautist services develops, including various competing websites
>autists making money off Pokemon
>the Chinese obviously get in on it before long
>they rent huge buildings and stuff them with low wage workers breeding Pokemon to sell on their websites
>autists BTFO, Chinese dominate the market with impossible to compete prices
>every single MMO the Chinese work on is now free of gold farmers, as they all move on to invest in Pokemon instead

Truly the end of days.

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>>30757378
>>30757359
>>30757316
>>30757299

>this entire thread
>all of these forever alone beta virgin aspies unironically defending cheating
>i-i-i-i-ts not cheating if i gen pokemon because i said so

No, the people who make the games and hold the tournaments get to choose what counts as cheating, you do not. Using 3rd party programs to manipulate a game code is and will always be cheating. It does not matter what kind of mental gymnastics you use to justify the fact you are too lazy to get your own team and have to cheat with genning.
Its fucking pathetic and all of you are the reason the competitive pokemon scene will always be a joke: EVERYONE KNOWS YOU ARE CHEATING AND IS LAUGHING AT YOU

Your arguments literally boil down to
>not using steroids gives people with spare a time a huge competitive edge in sports i use them just to even the playing field

Its a fucking joke and so are you. If you dont have spare time to put into something then you shouldnt be competing in it. No ifs, ands, or buts.

>>30757593
And that's absolutely cheating. I understand all too well how time consuming and tedious the process is, but I think personally that cheating is bad because it's unsportsmanlike. Feel free to disagree, I just want tPCI to either refine teambuilding or check for hacked mons, because people who inject shouldn't have that advantage over people who don't per the rules of the VGC.

>>30757653

>only the company decides what is cheating and what isn't

So shit like Beast Ball P2 and Dream Ball Aegislash is OK then since neither player was punished for it :^)

>>30757740
>So shit like Beast Ball P2 and Dream Ball Aegislash is OK then since neither player was punished for it :^)

They would be and they should be, the problem is that the referees seem to be extremely incompetant and dont even follow the rules that nintendo and gamefreak give them. Its extremely likely that these people are either paid off or cheat themselves. Not to mention the fact cheating is so rampant nintendo is scared of banning everyone because they dont want to lose money but they need to suck it up and stop letting people get away with breaking the rules they themselves created.

>>30757740
So is Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame yet?

>>30757613
The event Chansey had Wish actually, ironically among its most valuable moves ever since

Seismic Toss is still gen 3 tutor only though

Is there any fucking way we could get gamefreak to listen to us? Like any fucking way to be heard? I know they like to cover their ears and pretend problems don't exist but surely there must be some way to band together and get them to fucking listen.

>>30757841
Easy: get someone to win and in an interview publically call out cheaters and gamefreak for allowing cheating to happen

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So what's your guys' opinion on using a 6IV Ditto to breed?

>>30757653
Im not saying it isnt cheating.
It is cheating.

But who cares, its pokemon, the people running VGC barely care

>>30757838
Right, Wish, my bad. Still though, exactly. It's fucking ridiculous. That shit isn't as rampant now but Wish Chansey/Blissey used to be fucking everywhere, and is still fairly prominent, perhaps not in VGC but I digress.

I fucking hate injectors in a competitive environment. It's cheating, plain and simple.

>>30757862
Legitmately this thought ran through my head.

I competed in VGC, once, when I was thirteen, during gen 3. I actually went to the national level, somehow. I was so proud of my team. But then you know what happened? I was fucking destroyed by some sweaty manchild with a team of perfect legendaries. I haven't touched VGC since, just played competitive Showdown, online, etc. I had this exact thought the other day that I want to get in there, win, and do this.

>>30757705
Agree to disagree. At the end of the day, injecting is much, much more convenient, and can be done in a way that circumvents hack check. I couldn't care less about an anon on /vp/ calling it 'unsportsmanlike'.

>>30757932
How do you know they were perfect?

>>30757874
If the Ditto was hacked, then it's cheating. I don't know why you'd even bother with inefficient cheating like that, if you're gonna cheat anyway, you might as well go the whole hog

>>30757950
That's fair, but you are still a cheater and nothing you do can change that save releasing those pokemon.

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>>30757653
>getting this worked up over bits of data being generated
the beta virgin aspie is (You)

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>>30757642

>>30757970
Because it's fucking obvious?

>>30757995
You're a sperg if you don't get why people are upset over cheating in any competition.

>>30756934

Honestly, they should simply allow players to generate their team on the spot, IVs and all.

If you can't reliably detect artificial generation of a Pokémon, fuck it. Just let people build their Pokémon on the spot within the possibly available options, flagged with an event-specific tag that's unique to the match (say, a unique Event Ball). All players use special 3DS's and generate/register a team on the spot.

Problem solved. Bonus: Pokémon in the event ball cannot be used for anything else, breeding included.

>>30758012
oh yeah, i can totally tell in the middle of a battle if that wailord has 30 or 31 Attack IV.
In gen 3. at age 13.

>>30757932
VGC didn't start until 4th gen

>>30757841
Bottlecaps were supposed to be the answer to this. That should tell you how good GF is at "listening".

>>30758033
That's the best thing anyone's said in the thread.

>>30757841
Get them at televised events
If everyone's using M-Kang and Primal Groudon they'll have to change things up for the next worlds

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>>30757988
>tfw spread Love Ball HA Mareanie with 2 hacked parents like the plague around WIFI General and now they're everywhere there

>>30757653
>caring THIS much

>>30758144
Shouldn't you been in school?

>>30758137
I have a Lure Ball one

>>30758063
It wasn't called VGC, whatfucking ever, it was one of the Pokemon's official tournaments. Journey Across America or some shit.

>>30758063
What kind of fucking sweaty manchild would compete in a tournament bringing legendaries that AREN'T hacked?

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>>30757995
>>30758144
>Cheaters doing this much damage control
I give nintendo a year or so before they just start bricking peoples consoles if they detect anything like PKhex. The best part: they wont even tell people until after. Its gonna be so fucking funny

>>30754965
Doubles
TPCis incompetence at everything
Piss poor prize pool, not much incentive to travel and compete
Autistic fanbase
Streams aren't very fun to watch because the game runs like shit and the commentary sucks

>>30758250
But isn't it fun how there's now a secret battle song that is only ever heard in-game during the world finals?

>Implying socks add to how good you play
Hate Versilify but this analogy is stupid

>>30758033
This seems like a good idea and I really want to agree with it, and I think I do but it also it won't be something Gamefreak ever does because A) lazy fucking assholes B) it would be really close to admitting that there was cheating and I don't think they're ready for that.

Also actually, they put a huge fucking emphasis on "training" (breeding, etc.) your team so I'm not sure the gen-a-team at tournaments would sit well with their "image" or whatever. But honestly, this is definitely the easiest/best solution, too bad it will never happen.

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Alright, one of these is PKHeX'd, the other took 6 million hours to breed

Which one gives the trainer a statistical advantage in battle

>>30758286
Or you know they could just stop being greedy jews for once and just ban all the cheaters. The best thing for them to do would be to have people hand over their 3d's for inspection when they get there without telling them before hand and simply ban anyone they find with 3rd party programs or obviously hacked mons.

Who cares if for 1 year theres not very many people in VGC, every year after that people will cheat less and less.

Is it a japanese thing to just be so embarassed by cheaters that they refuse to acknowledge people who break their rules?

>>30758224
The 3DS is done
You have no idea how shit Nintendo is at security.

Unless they got help with the Switch nothing is going to change in the long term. Powersaves or something will exist for Switch games at some point.

>>30758224
>believing in this when GF can't even be arsed to put in a decent hack check

Yeah, then all your hours of Tauros riding will have been worth it!

>>30758033
That's sort of what I imagined a few months back.

Basically a system where you can rent Pokemon that are custom tailored to your specifications. Maybe there's an in-game currency you can spend to rent these Pokemon, and that currency would ideally be earned by actually playing the game online.

Basically
>Pick what Pokemon you want, moveset, ability, nature, EV spread
>Receive that Pokemon in a special part of your PC box
>They are in special Rental balls
>Can't be used anywhere in-game, competitive multiplayer only
>Can't be nicknamed, have a generic OT, this plus the Rental Ball means that Pokemon you raise yourself still seem special

I'd like for this to be a thing.

>>30758314
The one who isn't long dead from spending 685 years breeeding

>>30758033

Congratulations, you've invented Pokemon Showdown.

>>30757789
Cheating absolutely has to be dealt with if they want VGC taken seriously. No competitive game worth it's salt turns a blind eye to cheating. The idea, if gamefreak has it, that they will lose the few players they have, is just not true. Pokemon is not the only example of a rampant cheating fanbase, see Diablo 2 for example and some FPS. Duping in Diablo 2 was just a thing due to the way the online worked. If it's not dealt with, even a minority of them can run rampant and screw it all up.

Not all cheaters will get caught, but without SOME action taken, they eventually run rampant and you get a fucked up state of the game. Imagine if an aimbot was just never banned in an FPS. What happens? Even if only a few people use it at first, without a ban it just keeps running rampant. Without actually doing something, even a little, shit gets fucked up and nobody takes it seriously anymore. That's the state of Pokemon. Nobody ever really gets punished, at worst they get removed from the tournament until next year.

Anti-cheating measures are now standard in most games, with companies like EA actually hiring 3rd party programs out to use and scan PCs and things rather than make their own. It's basically a staple at this point. Gamefreak doesn't do it and nobody knows if they just don't care or don't know what they are doing. Personally my money is just on the latter, we know they aren't great programmers.

The easiest option going forth from here, is some kind of online check functionality with the Switch, where it connects to the server like an always online game. If you catch a mon while offline, you don't get the new pentagon/plus mark equivalent. The data gets stored somewhere so you can't just hack the mark on. Tada, problem solved. Still too much for Game Freak to pull? Probably.

Who knows if they'll ever actually deal with it, but this is pretty much the facts. Don't wanna deal with it? Competitive Pokemon will be a joke forever.

>>30756337
But it's not a competitive advantage. It's not cheating in the competitive aspect of the game. I could hand 6 perfect injected pokemon to a literal retard and he wouldn't be able to beat someone who spent time breeding their team in a competitive battle. Injection is cheating the system, not your opponent

>>30757932
>VGC in gen 3
>VGC without age divisions

Wew lad

>>30758314
There is no statistical advantage
The main problem people have with injecting is that the second one took 6 million hours to breed while the other was spawned in instantly

>>30758314
How can you battle after you literally died by trying to breed for 6 million hours?

This test makes no sense.

>>30758281
been that way since ~gen 5 at very least

the novelty wore off years ago

they'd be better off making another battle simulator ala PBR that looks nice on a big TV to get people interested

>>30758346
>obviously hacked mons
So you mean any pentaperfect legend? You realize the very next tournament people will still try to push the limit with genned 4IV UBs/Tapus, right?

>>30758314
>Which one gives the trainer a statistical advantage in battle

Neither does, you are missing the point though. You could potentially use performance enhancing drugs in sports just enough to be on the same level as all the other competitors, its still cheating. You are skipping the hard work and training and jumping right into competitions. Only truly autistic faggots understand so little about sportsmanship they dont understand the difference.

Can you imagine if random normies were allowed to use performance enhancing drugs to compete with as long as it didnt make them clearly better than everyone else?

>>30758416
Doesn't matter, because there is an outright advantage to injecting versus breeding. The fact that people are arguing it confirms it. Own up to your cheating.

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>civilized discussion on how to deal with cheating
>cheaters come in and shitpost and call people autists

When did YOU awaken to the problem of to the cheater fanbase?

>>30758464
this is pokemon

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>>30758457
But did I also mention the finals has a special battle arena you only ever see that one time?

A known cheater/hacker literally won the tournament.

Maybe one day Nintendo will learn that enabling these fraudulent players will ultimately undermine the entire competitive scene. Might as well let us tamper with Pokemon stats at this point, because nobody checks anything anymore.

Absolutely disgusting.

>>30757431
It's been specially bad these past few days.

>>30758414

Comparing injecting Pokemon with aimbotting in an FPS is like comparing jaywalking to murder.

I see your point. Injecting is cheating. There's no way around that. Just like jaywalking is breaking the law.

HOWEVER, to say that it actually affects the way the matches go is just silly. It just lets you BE ABLE TO BATTLE faster. That's the bottom line.

>>30758378
>hours of Tauros riding will have been worth it!
>being so bad at pokemon he doesnt know about flamebody

Pretty much confirming people who gen dont even understand basic game mechanics.

>>30758414
>Cheating absolutely has to be dealt with if they want VGC taken seriously. No competitive game worth it's salt turns a blind eye to cheating
Yep and its why no one outside of /vp/ and a few subreddits care about it. At all. Because everyone else is laughing at all the blatant cheating

>>30758549

There is a way around injecting though.
It's called breeding, idiot.

>>30758494
so? thre's no objective reason why competitive pokemon should allow cheaters more than any other competitive activity

>>30758494
Right and we are talking about sponsored tournaments with prizepools. Its the same thing.

>>30758567
That flew right over your head didn't it?

>>30758490
They shitpost even threads that aren't at all about cheating, it's been happening constantly, just pay attention.

>Hey /vp/ how can I get this Pokemon with this ability, anyone went through it and can guide me on how to do it?
>Just inject autist ;^)

>Hey /vp/, how is your Pokedex going? Any hard catches?
>Just inject autist ;^)

>Hey /vp/, what did you think about the Battle Tree, is it bad design to lock breeding and training items behind perfect sets in the Tree?
>Just inject autist ;^)

>Hey /vp/, what addition can I make to my team at this point in the game, that are available to catch right now?
>Just inject autist ;^)

>Hey /vp/, how can I catch this Tapu/UB/Legendary on this ball with the right nature, is it doable?
>just inject, autist ;^)

They do this all day, every day, to any in-game discussion subject you can think of. They are the cancer of /vp/.

>>30758494
way to prove that anons point about the autism

>>30758550
No competitive game worth it's salt has you grind to get each character to a competition-ready state as long as Pokemon does, but please go ahead and keep acting like injection is the problem

>>30758464
>Can you imagine if random normies were allowed to use performance enhancing drugs to compete with as long as it didnt make them clearly better than everyone else?
>as long as it didnt make them clearly better than everyone else

THERE YOU FUCKING GO AGAIN. injecting doesn't increase your battling skill, so you aren't clearly better than anyone else

>>30758314
The one with the lower IV in SpA.
Gotta stop those Power Swap pokemon

>>30758574
>>30758581
>>30758619
pokemon is a single player game for child and college students, VGC is not a real competitive game like Lol or some FPS. Injecting is not bad.

>>30758610
You must be new.
Even before SM were anounced the standard response to a "hey /vp/ tell me how can I get (shit you can look up in serebii or even bulbapedo)" has been
>;^)

>>30755514
>>30757399
>>30755514
>Getting illegal balls over the GTS is okay because kids don't know which balls are legal
>You'll still get banned if you get a post bank egg move over the GTS because kids should know what moves are legal

What did TPCi mean by this?

>>30755969
Breeding Pokemon yourself represents an investment (time/effort/etc.), having a friend who likes you enough to breed Pokemon for you also represents an investment (time/effort/etc.).

Also it doesn't involve literally editing in-game data, which is against the rules (ie. considered "cheating"), even if you do this to set all your Pokemon's IVs to 5.

>>30758610

It's a meme, you dip.

>>30758637
That's funny, because every skill based activity takes time to practice, learn, and internalize. It's not exactly a game, but it's more like a dog show where the dogs fight at the end than anything.

Though I don't disagree they need to streamline breeding.

>>30758637
>No competitive game worth it's salt has you grind

>league of legends
>grind to challenger
>do super well
>get picked up by a team maybe

kill yourself

>>30758728
If you think cheating isn't bad then I guess it isn't. But it is cheating. Which is against VGC rules.

>>30758549
It does affect matches. I'd rather not get into this though. More importantly the point I want to make is it sets the tone for the game. Look, if a few cheaters got by, that's a different story. But we are seeing nearly the entire tournament suspected of being cheaters with hacked mons now. And there is ZERO action taken. Maybe you see someone disqualified once in a while but nothing happens, they can go back to in game and it is all still there.

No wonder so many people cheat. I don't even blame them, well I do, but I'm not bitter about them. This is the state of the game that Game Freak has refused to take any real action on. Look at what Niantic does in Go. There are botters, but they actually tried and they are a small team. TPC is rich, but they don't do shit.

Imagine if the Olympics didn't even try to drug check? Or just did a few basic checks. What if even if people got found out, some of them still stayed in the competition. The entire thing would be a joke. Surprise surprise, VGC is a joke. Any competitive game(and even some non-competitive) with tolerance for cheating ends up the same. Pokemon would be dead if competitive was it's main focus.

>>30758849
Read the whole post. Grind for EACH CHARACTER.
LoL champions don't need 1 specific IV out of 31 possible (times 6) to be top tier

>>30758978
>Grind for EACH CHARACTER.
You're just moving goalposts now. Not every competitive game has multiple characters that you use in a team, but as pokemon is an RPG, building your TEAM is a central part of the game. ARe you just plain autistic?

This is like saying athletes shouldnt have to train

>>30756807
Working out is also a brainless time sink, but you need to do it to become a competitive athlete.

That's why if, say, a baseball player took steroids but only to the point of reaching a believable level of physical fitness (ie. indistinguishable from other players), but they failed the drug test, they would still have to face the consequences of cheating at a competitive sport.

The only difference between this metaphor and Pokemon is that Game Freak is unfortunately not competent enough to provide adequate anti-cheating measures. You could argue it's on them for letting people cheat or "forcing" them to cheat by putting a time barrier in between the player and literally the best iteration of an individual Pokemon possible, but if people didn't cheat, that would solve the cheating problem instantly.

There's literally no excuse. "I don't want to spend time breeding!" Find a friend who does. Play on Showdown. Look for another game that doesn't make you feel like you have to cheat.

>>30756925
There are literally online battle simulators built for this purpose.

But I guess people like to make excuses for their laziness.

>>30758758
It was ironic, even if you were cheating. "just inject it :^)" was actually a meme statement. Actual cheating discussions were rare and I felt the general consensus is you knew what it was even if you don't care. This non ironic shitposting happens whenever a new gen comes out. Reddit comes pouring in. We wouldn't "have injection is good for the state of the game" unironically if it was 3 months ago.

The motivation to carry out any crime depends on three things:
>ease
>potential gain
>enforcement/punishment

PKHeX?
>ease
the only thing stopping injection from being completely widespread is the firmware updates, and even then people can trade you
>potential gains
as shit as the VGC prizes are compared to other e-sports, there is possible monetary gain
>enforcement/punishment
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

until one of these three things changes substantially, we will have injection.

From now on, every VGC competitor should be locked in a room for 2 days with an unused 3DS system and a copy of SM with no save data.
After 48 hours, they go right to tournament, whoever managed to get the best team wins

>>30758864
They are enforcing rules for impossible shit.

But they have no way of tracking when the mons and game were edited correctly, doesn't matter if the rules were broken, people will do it.

Injected Pokemon will always exist unless they cut off pokebank. Everything depends on how much resources and care Nintendo/Game Freak have for securing the Switch and future games.

>>30759126
Do they get doritos and mountain dew though? Thats the real question

>>30759077
I need a break.
I'm losing my ability to detect sarcasm.
Sorry.

>>30759116
Cheating isn't a crime. It's just not fair to the spirit of competition. You aren't wrong about what needs to change or about the fact that injection probably isn't going away soon. But you can't use any of that to justify the action.

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How many people do you think would be absent from VGC if generation 8 was on the switch (assuming no hacks/exploits were found). Most of these players never left the first island.

>>30759161
>cheating is against the rules of a competition
>crime is against the rules of the law
>you cant compare the two
Autism.

The law is literally just a set of rules that society has decided to follow.

>>30759016
No, you originally moved the goalposts to make your shitty reply by failing to read the initial post. It doesn't take any skill to build a team by riding Tauros until you roll a 5 IV garchomp.

>>30759161
>cheating isn't a crime

do you even read what you write?

>>30759187
Don't pretend that rule of law and a ruleset for a competition carry the same weight. You are the true autist.

>>30759225
But it isn't. Unless you mean cheating on taxes or cheating a system that the law maintains. Clearly they are different from law. Rules are rules, but laws carry actual consequences that affect your life significantly. Pokemon, even in VGC, doesn't so much.

>>30757316
>b-b-but not everyone has the free time to invest in a competitive video game!

I don't have the time to become a parkour master but I can play Mirror's Edge because it's a simulation and that's what those are for. People who don't have the time to compete in the actual Pokemon game are free to use simulators and enter in tournaments hosted on said simulators.

Smogon's been doing that shit for ages, and they seem to be doing just fine.

>>30759200
>No, you originally moved the goalposts
>literally no you
>i have no arguments the post

The argument i have been making since my very first post ITT is that cheating is shitty and people should be banned for it. No amount of damage control will change the fact that you are trying to justify people who cheat and your mental gymnastics are beyond pathetic.

>it doesnt take any skill to ride a tuaros around for hours
>it doesnt take any skill to lift weights for hours

Are you just pretending to be retarded? Do you not understand what training is?

Training isnt hard because of the difficulty, its hard because of the AMOUNT OF TIME you have to put into to be good. Kill yourself for being so autistic you have never had to train for anything in your life.

Did you just never play sports as a kid?

>>30759116
>injection is a crime
breedfags, everyone

>>30759229
>Don't pretend that rule of law and a ruleset for a competition carry the same weight.
The only difference is the police generally enforce the law and in this case nintendo doesnt enforce their own rules.

But if you look at league of legends and riot, they have some of the most strict rules that they enforce like crazy, even when it seems a little silly.

>>30759328
The difference is in going to prison versus getting banned from Pokemon competitions.

>>30759298
>Kill yourself for being so autistic you have never had to train for anything in your life.
I'm not the one comparing weightlifting to rolling my thumb on the 3DS d-pad.

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I went to a local VGC in Massachusetts with a modified OR/AS. If my console was hosting the match, then my opponent would have a 0% chance of critting, swagger would miss, will-o-wisp would miss, and you would always break out of sleep and attack through paralysis. This wasn't detected and everyone just thought they had bad RNG when they went up against me. If I didn't get host, then I would have to play legit which didn't really matter that much.

Bottom line is they don't give a shit about cheating and don't have the tools to detect it. I wanted to see if I would get called out and I didn't, so I'm wondering how many other people have done this at the events.

>>30757593
You know, there's also ANOTHER alternative to your problem that doesn't involve cheating.

It's called Showdown.

>>30759362
Whatever you need to say to justify your laziness.

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>all these immature spoiled mellians who are so shitty at life they need things handed to them right now and literally cry themselves to sleep at the thought they might have to actually train the pokemon they use

Why are millenials so spoiled?
>WAAAAAAH I DONT WANNA TRAIN IT TAKES TOO LONG WAAAAAH JUST LET ME HAVE MY TEAM RIGHT NOW

You just are like pic related levels of spoiled.

Go watch charlie and the chocolate factory, pay attention to this little girl. Look at how ridiculous she behaves. That is you.

>>30759404
You're a true shitter if there ever was one.

>>30759351
Right but both are consequences for braking rules. Not all crime is punished with jail, are you unironically this autistic?

Like holy shit you need to go outside more often.

>>30759432
This is the archetype of the "mad oldfag" meme.
Truly, a post to be conserved.

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>>30759404
>stories that didn't happen: the post

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>>30759473
>i have no arguments so il call you an oldfag

>>30759404
>things that never happened

>>30759463
I wasn't the one asserting cheating is a crime. My point is that there are very different consequences. Breaking laws means you pay money and/or get jail time. Cheating in Pokemon doesn't. I know you are a major autist, but you need to work through it to understand what I'm telling you.

>>30759298
>Comparing weightlifting to playing a children's game
Laughable.

>>30759424
Oh no, anon on /vp/ called me lazy, how will I ever recover
I'm honestly honored you keep replying to me, I'm sure this thread has taken a bunch of time out of your rigorous breeding schedule :^)

>>30759432
>Quoting a shitty child movie like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to prove a point.

>>30759489
>I have no arguments so I will start yelling about those damn kids

>>30759523
I'm literally sitting here hatching eggs. That is exactly what I'm doing. I have nothing better to do today than reply to Anons.

>people actually believe rampant cheating can't be stopped

It is Game Freaks own lack of action that caused this. It is zero to do with cheating actually being too hard to detect. The only reason it's hard to detect anyway, is they do shit all.

Of course, you can't stop them all, but there are steps you can take. Some of them are so easy, like actually, ya know, punishing people that get caught. It's amazing how even when people were using unreleased shit online they were only removed from the tournament or whatever.

How about like, every other modern game with online functionality, they have something run in the background and detect shit and send data to Nintendo? Considering how closely this is linked to the piracy community I don't see why they can't invest some money in it to get rid of unauthorized systems.

>>30759443
Pokemon isn't really competitive, so it doesn't matter. Fun fact is that only the host game dictates the battle rules. Both games will follow them exactly. Might try it for S/M if I'm in foxborough for spring break.

>>30759509
>being so autistic that very basic metaphors are lost on you

>>30759533
>shitty child movie like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
IS this bait or are you just extremely underage.
>>30759559
>il just ignore all the arguments that were in the first post
Are you pretending to be retarded?
>being a spoiled brat who wants everything handed to them isnt an argument beacuse i said so waaaaaaah

Cheaters confirmed for extremely immature manchildren who never played any kind of sport or real competition and therefore do not have the mental capacity to understand what training is.

>>30759575
The authentification itself can be pretty tricky, I think. As far as I know there aren't many ways to determine if an injected mon is any different from a legit one aside from really obvious stuff, like possible balls.

>>30759473
thanks for admitting you are a newfag. now back to riddit

>>30759625
You say it isn't competitive, yet it is.

>>30759362
Man, people must sure be lazy if they can't even take the effort to roll their thumb on the 3DS d-pad.

I suppose when you put it that way, it's kind of pathetic!

>>30759404
I've seen a player that would use 1 double team and every move would miss no matter what. Is this possible with cheats?

>>30759489
Man, I'm not even part of this shitfest you guys are throwing.
Your post was just that bad.
At least use this century's movie.
>>30759640
Just take a healthy glass of bleach and sit on it.

>>30759701
>east use this century's movie.
>still confirming yourself to be this underage
Shouldnt you still be in school right now?

>>30759404
This is what's wrong with VGC

The actual reason why VGC sucks has nothing to do with hacking, hacks have to at least have legit stats and moves so it's not like CS where you're watching aimbot vs aimbot

VGC sucks because watching everyone use the same team and use Protect every other turn isn't exciting

>>30759633
Because there is no data stored anywhere outside the Pokemon. The original trainer for example, is just text data. There's no server side tracking of mons, no watermark of whose 3DS they originated on, etc. While the game can't be always online, there is still so much that can be done. There are so many things they could do that don't even require much effort.

But the game data is similar to Gen3, it's still in that old Gameboy mentality where you just linked to your friends. It's not designed for the networking era. Basic anti-cheat functionality is in almost every online game now. Considering how little they've done Nintendo may not even see the issue. I remember when the Wii U was being worked on there was developers that complained and said why isn't online more like Xbox Live or Playstation and the Nintendo people had no idea what those were like or some extremely alarming reply.

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>>30759669
I know this is what this post was trying to accomplish, so here it is.
That guy was implying that training by lifting weights for hours to increase strength performance is comparable to breeding/leveling up for hours to increase performace in pokemon, which is false

>>30759713
Its fucking 19:42 here, and I'm finally free from college. I'll shitpost as much as I want.
Also, relearn to quote, or to use your mouse.
Which one is going worse, your arteriosclerosis or your osteoarthritis?

>>30759834
The point he was making is that both require a time investment, and both can subvert that investment through illegitimate means. It's totally valid.

>>30759840
>19:42 here
So you dont live in north america. Disgusting

>your arteriosclerosis or your osteoarthritis?
This is some pretty shitty projection hun. I dont have a hint of either

>>30758137
Think I got yours. Thanks buddy.

>>30759175
From what I heard, there are even faggots that don't play the game in these tournaments. They are in it for the prize money. They play the simulator, then go hack their team on the tournament day. This has been discovered at least once or twice with some players.

>>30759918
Why would you want the "prize" money. It's a really shitty prize pool for the circuit and I make more with my job. Fighting games payouts way more.

>>30759878
Oh yeah, injection is a dirty shortcut
But it's a shortcut that has limits. You don't magically get better at prediction/teambuilding by injecting a Toxapex over breeding for one

>>30759971
e-peen. it's always e-peen.

>>30758549
There's nothing wrong with aimbotting, it just cuts out the time it takes to get that good.

>>30759918
I like that the battle interface shows relevant stats like Eggs Hatched or Pokemon Caught

Some guy in the worlds had 6 Pokemon Caught, not even a starter.

>>30758788
Having illegal moves is actually an advantage ingame though so it's more relevant, even if it could theoretically fuck someone who was ignorant and just bred an illegal breedject they got over WT.

Having an illegal ball is something that only hyper autistics like vers care about.

>>30760135
I think you at least need to play through enough to get the Z-ring

>>30760135
I think they often just have a fresh copy of the game and trade their VGC team onto it, to avoid any possible complications.

i'll cheat to my heart's content and i'm not gonna get banned from it, y'all can go suck off verlisify on the side of the high road

Filthy casual here. Competetive seems like cancer to me.

>Hurr durr everyone in the top ten has the same team

>Landorus, and other legendaries on EVERY team

Sooo serious these players are with their smogon legendary teams. Full of spam, trade out moves, and fucking rocks galore.

>>30759697
no

>>30760135
They changed it so it shows things related to the battle now like the current turn and how many turns of weather/trick room are left. Gonna miss the useless things like how many eggs have been hatched and how many times the Hall of Fame has been entered.

>>30760331
Actually it is. People have hacked battlespot rated all the time and I have no doubt they do it in VGC too.

>>30760235
But you'd need the starter at least.

Also to those who say injecting is just a time save measure, take into account that people have been able to readjust their team mid tournament, disregarding battle box locks. That's not something accessible to regular players no matter the time.

>>30760323
Man, you aren't even in the same continent as the topic of the thread.

>>30760323
You're just referring to cherry-picked images that occur at the start of a format. Outside of VGC 16 teams become really diverse as the format progresses. But of course nobody posts later tournaments.

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>>30758849
>league of legends
>competitive game

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>>30760323
The real red pill is that Smogon is not cancer. In fact, Smogon is an anti cheat community from what I heard and they are actually trying to make a good meta away from VGC cancer.

Smogon gets way too much shit when the general idea of Smogon is just to make the competitive game actually playable and fun.

>>30760172
>Having an illegal ball is something that only hyper autistics like vers care about.

And competitors too due to timer stall tactics.

>>30757838
>>30757613
Either Serebii is fucking with me or Chansey can get Seismic Toss through Mawile(through Primeape)

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>tfw to intelligent to not inject

>>30760551
you can

>>30760551
Yeah, that's possible as of Gen 6.
Wish is still locked to the Gen 3 event though.

>>30760529
>no complex bans
>Baton Pass

>>30760529
Because smogon protects certain pokemon and ban pokemon that are good against the former.

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>>30760582
>intelligent
>does not know the difference between to and too

if any of you breedfags ever use the copy/paste function on your computer instead of typing it out by hand, you're a hypocrite

>>30760919
If any of you injectfags have ever worked for a paycheck to buy food instead of just taking it, you're a hypocrite

But it's pointless to say, I know none of you have worked a day in your life

>>30761068
that analogy doesn't hold up

breeding vs injecting is a less convenient way of creating bits of data vs a more convenient way, just like typing vs copy/paste. it's not stealing

>>30760919
You're an entitled fool.

>>30761112
Except it breaks VGC rules, which is the subject of the thread.

>>30760782
that's the meme, newfag

man you people are both wrong and also fucking stupid

its okay to or to inject, either way youre having fun and playing the game

no need to sperg out you autistic motherfuckers

i personally dont inject but i dont give a shit if others do

>>30761383
I give people shit if they brag about cheating.

>>30754965
Legendaries

>>30761755
Nobody who plays in VGC goes on the livestream and says "fuck yeah I injected all of these"

>>30759432
I mean, you could fit in the baby boomers position where you expect millennials to survive on $7.30/hr and proceed to bitch when they ask for more despite said baby boomers being the ones ot fuck the economy up.

There's just as much ignorance both ways.

Pokemon is LITERALLY the only "competitive" game where cheating is not only encouraged, but where people who don't cheat are actually looked down upon.

>>30761859
>Ray Rizzo

It's also not much of a coincidence that these VGC "stars" who blatantly inject also don't give a shit about the actual game.

>>30761859
They sure like tweeting about it and adjusting locked battle boxes.

Punish the morons who make their teams blatantly obvious red flags? Sure, I have no issue with injecting but I can get behind this.

Here's the thing with bringing other games' competitive scenes as examples though: there is no competitive game like Pokemon. In those other games, cheating is the equivalent to actual unfair advantage. In Pokemon, cheating is a shortcut. Yeah it's still against the rules but I think this is a valid distinction to point out.

(Also really the most effective way to curb injection usage besides better security would essentially be an ingame Showdown styled team set up so that people with limited free time can skip the busywork and get straight into battling/practicing)

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>Everyone and their uncle is a PKHexer, Game Freak's hack check is a joke
>Doubles only
It's shit.

Reminder that breedfag whiners are the ones that go 1-4 at their local Premier Challenge with their super duper awesome special legit breeded Pokemon without realising that breeding doesn't make you better at battling

>>30761370
"I was only pretending to be retarded xDD"

>>30763410
>without realising that breeding doesn't make you better at battling

Literally no one has ever claimed this.

Reminder that breedfag whiners are the ones that go 1-4 at their local Premier Challenge with their super duper awesome special legit breeded Pokemon without realising that breeding doesn't make you better at battling

Also, what REALLY went wrong was Gen 4 and 6, these gens introduced Pokemon and mechanics that accelerated the generation powercreep irreversibly

>>30763497
Shit, double posted, mods pls forgive desu

>See topic about "what went wrong" about VGC
>Expect discussions on VGC's competitive scene
>Enter topic
>Nothing but people arguing the ethics of using cheats to skip grinding in singleplayer mode
Well, this is very disappointing.

>>30763704
But that's what's wrong with it. It's manchildren seeking to enlarge their e-peen by hacking mons that other people can't get. Don't tell me you can realistically get a 31IV'd, properly natured UB or legendary without.

>>30763704
The incompetence and ignorance of TPCi when it comes to stopping cheaters is one of the biggest things wrong with it.

We're gonna have some Dream/Beast Ball incident every year now and it'll only get worse, especially now that people can even edit their battle boxes mid-tournament and cross the line completely. If they don't wake up and at least recognize the problem then VGC will be an even bigger joke.

>>30763800
> It's manchildren seeking to enlarge their e-peen
No, it's people who want to play competitive on an equal level without doing the singleplayer aspect of building up a good Pokémon.

>Don't tell me you can realistically get a 31IV'd, properly natured UB or legendary without.
Er, yes, you can. Did you not know about super-training?

>>30763954
Okay, I'll spell it out, since people apparently aren't: TPCi don't care. They con't care because they're game designers, and one of the biggest rules of game design is that you don't tell the player how they're supposed to enjoy the game. When someone says they put all the effort into making their own unique Pokémon the best it can be, they go "That's respectable". When someone tells them they cheat for the best Pokémon because they only like the battling aspect, they go "Well that's fine too". The no-hacking rule is primarily there to stop illegal moves or such, with a bit of a hat-tip to the former group, but they have no actual intention of locking the latter type of people out of competitive play.

>>30764175
>When someone tells them they cheat for the best Pokémon because they only like the battling aspect, they go "Well that's fine too".

But that's wrong, you'd get your ass DQ'd. Any kind of save modification is against the rules, it's very explicit.

>>30764235
It's against the rules on paper, but how many times has that actually happened?

Here's the solution:

> Make Hyper Training not retarded.

The level 100 part is fucked up. Why does it have to be lv100? Why do you fucking need to get some obscure items? It shouldn't be free handouts, but come on.

> Entering in link/online battle will boost the stats of your mons to 31IV levels.

Basically, it will do what Hyper Training does but only for that battle. So you could literally catch a right natured mon and use it ingame AND in a competition.

>>30758714
No, but it gets you battle ready without the effort required to do so. I'm not that anon, but here's a better example.


> Boxer 1 does all his roadwork, jumprope, situps, crunches, push-ups etc etc to get fit for a match. In addition to spar a lot in his gym.

> Boxer 2 uses drugs to skip all the training to get in shape, and spars a lot in his gym.

This is a better example.
Boxer 1 does everything he can to become fit. Boxer 2 takes the easy way out. Now, Boxer 2 might very well be better at boxing than Boxer 1. But Boxer 2 should and WOULD be banned and ostracized by the entire boxing community and the fans.

Imagine if everyone went: "Well DUH Boxer 1. Are you an autist? Why would you run and jump rope and do situps 'n shit if you can JUST INJECT LOL"

inb4 LOLOL POKEMON IS NOT BOXING HAHAHAHA.

VGC is wrestling, the whole thing is staged, they even gave us a heel Pokemon to prove it. All the "plays" and "outplays" and "predictions" and "critical hits" are decided beforehand to make viewing more enjoyable. The "cheating" scandal is an open secret which causes excitement and faux rage amongst fans. None of it is real. Wake up.

>Seeing OP's pic.
>Expecting a healthy discussion about meta.
>Seeing degenerate discussion instead.

I wonder what went wrong. I just want to play this game and have fun with my friends.

>>30764175
>Er, yes, you can. Did you not know about super-training?

Okay, come back to me when you have a correctly natured, legitimate Tapu Koko. Tell me how long it takes of refighting Kukui, watching all the cutscenes, catching it, then being able to check. Oh, same for rolling for right nature on all other UBs and legendaries. Oh! And don't forget if you want a certain type of HP, you gotta roll for that too.

>>30765633
You can knock it out and it'll respawn, you retard

>>30765750
Doesn't address any other part of the post, you retard.