>UU

Healthy metagame

really makes you think

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>>30736979
wait Scizor dropped to UU?

>>30737024
it's just an alpha at the moment

>>30737024
Mega Scizor is still OU though.

I feel like we need a new tier this gen. UU has become OU and OU has become Ubers-Lite

(Maybe just make the mons that dropped from last gen's OU into a tier called "Used")

>>30737024

UU is in alpha right now, and it's just regular Scizor

Mega Scizor is still in OU where it belongs

>>30737075
How many splits do we need
BL was already bs since gen 4

>Have to play RU for my bros to be viable now

Kinda feel sorry for the smogon guys that make up the tiers.

>>30737075
This desu the powercreep is getting too crazy

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>>30736979
>theoretical doubles NU meta has a bunch of support mons and clerics

sounds horrifying

>>30737117
Smogon needs to completely reassess the meta and plan out a new tiering system. The powercreep is just making shit way too ridiculous with the current tiers

>>30736979
When shit like Gengar and Keldeo are in UU, you know powercreep went too far

>>30737117
time to make BL an actual format

RU will be the new fun meta like UU from last gen

>>30736979
Time to ditch the U's and just go lettering system.
A, B, C, D, E and F. S for ubers. SS/AG for fug.

>>30737193
This may not be a bad idea to try, but I see them seeing it as too time consuming for a potentially failed solution.

>>30737389
Maybe they could hold a forum event to have fans try and decide a better system. When you have thousands of people that understand the meta working to fix it, that could be beneficial and semi-quick

>>30737234

Keldeo was in UU at the start of last gen because everyone was playing with the shiny new toys.

It and Gengar will rise back up.

>>30737844
speaking of that, who was ou at the beginning of last gen but fell down?

>>30737925
Trevenant and Klefki (though the latter fell because of the Swagger ban)

>>30736979
when even a fucking genie is UU the power creep is too real

i thought alola was slowlola to gimp them? how is this still a problem

>>30736979
All genies need to fuck off from UU.

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>>30737844
This will likely happen with a handful of the current drops. Dragonite strikes me as someone who will rise again. It's solid and versatile overall, and if nothing else the resurgence of rain headed by Pelipper is good for it.

>>30737925
Trevenant, Sylveon, Conkeldurr, non-mega Gyarados, Espeon, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Mandibuzz, probably an assload of others I'm forgetting.

>>30736979
>Black Kyurem

>>30738180
What happened to Dragonite's Dragon Dance for Showdown? I haven't played in a while.

>>30738154
>UU currently has more genies than OU or Uber

>>30736979
Remember that tiers are based on popularity. People are simply testing the new Pokémon out, and when that is said and done, these Pokémon will resurface in OU. It has happened before, it will happen again.

>>30738151
Tornadus was in BL2 for most of last gen, only became UU at the last minute.

>>30737925
talonflame

>>30737925
Goodra

>>30738151
how does making 90% of the new dex unoptimized shitmons hurt mons who were already good

>>30737844
>Gengar will rise back up.
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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>>30738250
Nothing that I'm aware of. Dragonite is still a great Dragon Dancer thanks to its natural bulk, Multiscale, and Extreme Speed. It is absolutely a victim of shiny new toy syndrome right now, and the anti-priority measures aren't ideal, but it's still a mighty fine Pokemon. Hell, the nerf to Confusion was a lovely buff to Outrage.

I can't wait until people start to realise that there are 2 landorus in OU and one drops to UU as a result

>>30738250
Probably the fact that it has to compete with Zygarde now since it became scarier with Thousand Arrows.

I remember when Gengar and Starmie were relevant for gens. Then in the space of a few years they are gone. Only mons that survived all the way from Gen1. The power creep is real.

>>30738398
HGSS is his best sprite, FRLG second. This is true for most Pokemon, actually.

>>30738427
Incarnate got booted back to ubers though

>>30738463
>Only mons that survived all the way from Gen1
Chansey

>>30737844
I think Gengar may stick to UU.

>>30738398
Dragonite took a nasty tan on gen 5.

>>30738500
Was UU in Gen 2, 3 and 4 due to Blissey's existence.

>>30738500
Chansey was not OU the whole time. Like Dragonite and Zapdos, it has risen and fallen.

>>30738500
Chansey is only OU in Gen 1 and 6.

>>30738535
Zapdos has only fallen to UU in Gen 5.

It fell to UU in Gen 6 for a brief time as well but got back to OU before the gen ended. It was OU ever gen besides 5.

D-Nite wasn't OU in Gen 1, 2 or 3.

>>30738521
BL in gen 3 actually

>>30738398
>>30738428
Makes sense. If I recall correctly Weavile outspeeds and ohko's Dragonite with icicle crash too, so that probably doesn't help.

>>30737075
I've heard people mention that a tier above OU might be in order.

>>30737925
Galvantula

>>30737075
>Mega Scizor is still OU though.

That distinction seems dumb in this situation.
Both Scizor and Mega Scizor perform similarly.

I get they did it so regular Mawile and Altaria wouldn't be banned in lower tiers, but splitting up usage with things like Scizor and Gyarados looks like it will screw over UU

>>30736979
>UU
>It's just gen 6 OU

???

>>30738652
Most mons jump like 2 or 3 tiers with their megas. It's rare to get megas like Slowbro and Scizor where both forms are equally viable.

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>>30738586
Accurate. "Risen and fallen" was abridged. They haven't followed the same trajectory.
Zapdos has been consistently great and only lagged a little bit at times.
Dragonite was always on the fringe of viability until it got Multiscale. Wrap Trapper, Dragon Dancer, lost its Outrage niche...it's been a wild ride.

>>30736979
Wait for the bans.

>>30738619
They need to make a BL Uber tier and send all the genies, tikis, and ayy lmaos there. It's the only way to fix the meta.

>>30737075
BL

Keldeo and Scizor are still OU tho.

>>30737075
Does that work the other way around with megas?

Like, is Mega Garchomp UU because everyone just uses regular Chomp in OU?

>>30738806
nah that's because of the speed drop that Mega Garchomp gets

>>30738806
No, because you can still use normal Chomp the entire battle without megaing. It's only Chomp and Latios that get worse megas than their originals, and you can't force players to mega, so it'd be pointless to put mega Chomp in a lower tier.

>>30736979
Looks like RU will be my meta of choice this generation.

>>30738778
why dont we just keep the current tiers and just have RU be more similar to ORAS UU?

>>30738858
You forgot Alakazam.

>>30737844

Yep, people are trying out new shit at the moment, soon they're realise that they're old shit is better and go back to it, until then we'll have to deal with the sort of shit we see in the OP.

Btw, if anyone wants to see the first month usage stats for Gen 6, you can find them in this thread

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-gen-vi-simulator-statistics-%E2%80%94-october-2013.3491683/

Seeing Trevenant in OU still sends my sides into orbit.

>>30737844
Keldeo will rise back up for sure.

Doubting Gengar will to be honest, the Cursed Body nerf hit it hard.

>>30738887
Mega Zam is actually OU Pre and Post Bank right now. Trace Beast Boost is insane on it

>>30738887
Mega Zam is arguably better than Alakazam, it's even in a higher tier. Even if not, they both fill different roles and are equally viable. Same with Heracross.

Latios and Chomp just outclass their megas in every way.

>>30738883
Because OU is borked and it's shitting up the other tiers.

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>With the latest power creep and everything from OU falling to UU and UU falling to RU Jolteon is probably NU now

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Just let more shit to OU. There's no need to have a 3.4% usage rate when 800 pokemons exist.

>>30739172
Actually this, what happens if we drop the cutoff to fit a new metric? The current metric is "probability that you're going to see a given Pokemon at least once every 20 battles", what happens if we increase that to "once every 25 battles" or "once every 30 battles"?

>>30739081
Jolteon was never good.

>>30739031
It would be good to have a tier between OU and Ubers then I guess. That way pokemon like Mega-Kanga could ever be used.

"I only like to play casually on showdown, and I don't go to tournaments. But I use OU Pokemon only, because I enjoy winning. And you know, I can only win with Pokemon in this tier"

>>30739349
Jolteon was OU for five straight gens. It took Mega Manectric and Heliolisk to knock him down.

>>30739403
Alright then. Try winning an OU match with mons from RU and below. Prove us wrong.

Unban Aegi, Lando-I, Deoxys-D, M-Kangaskhan, Reshiram
Leave Pheromosa, Genesect, Hoopa-U
Test Darkrai and Blaziken
make things better by appearing to make them worse

>>30739611
Sub 1600 elo OU is literally braindead, I got there with a RU Ghost mono type meme team

>>30739659
Last gen I mean

>>30739638
Why not just rename OU to "Little League Ubers" while we're at it? I mean fuck, with the latest power creep, the meta is already at that point now anyway.

>>30738892
>Malamar
New toy syndrome makes people use complete shit, doesn't it

>>30739638
>Unban Aegi, Lando-I, Deoxys-D, M-Kangaskhan, Reshiram
>Leave Pheromosa, Genesect, Hoopa-U
>Test Darkrai and Blaziken
>make things better by appearing to make them worse
the fuck is wrong with you
only thing i agree on is blaziken

>>30739638
Anon no you don't cure cancer by chain smoking 20 packs a day.

>>30739702
>>30739638
Just make AU, "Always Used", and put the shit-tier Ubers along with the broken OU in it.

>Darkrai
>Deoxys-D
>Deoxys-S
>Deoxys-N
>Pheromosa
>Aegislash
>Arceus-Bug
>Arceus-Ice
>Arceus-Psychic
>Blaziken
>M-Kangaskhan
>Genesect
>Giratina-O
>Greninja
>Hoopa-Unbound
>Reshiram
>Zekrom
>Kyurem-W
>Landorus
>M-Lucario
>M-Mawile
>M-Sableye
>Landorus-T
>Shaymin-S
>Tapu Lele
>Toxapex
>Tapu Koko (?)
>Zygarde-C
>Garchomp (?)
>Magearna (?)

There. OU is fixed.

So above OU, we should have WOU? Way OverUsed?

Where is the power creep even coming from? I thought Gen 7 mons were shitmons?

>>30739877
They are. But UBs and legendaries are killing the meta

>>30737452
>fans
>understanding the meta

>>30739877

Tapus, Ultra Beasts, and the Mega Speed change.

>>30739827
AU sounds like a good idea, not sure about everything on your list though.

>>30739877
90% of them are, the other 10% consists of the tapus, UBs and toxapex / alolan marowak

>>30739770
I mean I guess now that I look at it there's a pretty low amount of things that would be brought back but with how the metas already been evolving, some of these things would be fine
>Blaziken lmfao. Good Protect when you get outsped at +1 anyway
>M-Kanga nerfed to fuck, Seismic Toss is still problematic unfortunately
>Darkrai lost his niche in better sleep move, now gets btfo by Koko and Lele, Pheromosa, bulky VoltTurn spam that's everywhere, really anything with a scarf and neutral stab; still has sick coverage though
>Reshiram spams slow STAB and gets fucked around by Fairies and Toxapex. Bloom Doom isn't as effective as Heatran because Heatran can actually do other shit
>Deo-D aka "man i wish there werent suddenly five billion stall killers"
>Lando-I probably still fucks everyone up, bring back Palkia lmoa
>Aegi neutered by people going crazy over Darkrai, Reshi, Blaziken

mostly i'm just retarded and want to see how mad people would get by this and prove to myself that it wouldn't be fun because i really think it would be whoops

>>30737075
Just change the tier names
OU stays OVER used.
UU becomes Commonly Used, CU.
Old RU becomes the new Under Used
Old NU becomes Rarely Used, PU becomes Never Used, and if need be a PU is reinstated below THAT for Delibird and friends.

>>30739827
Actually not a bad idea, looks solid although drop Giratina-O, Deo-N, M-Lucario, and maybe Zygarde-C.

>>30739031
This. この僕 Not to mention the fucking council members for OU are retarded.
Having the whole system be based around a tier so flawed just fucks up every other tier ESPECIALLY UU.

>>30740114
There's already FU below PU, anon, it's home to Articuno and Arbok.

How many months remaining until UU officially starts?

>>30738398
dragonite is not a good dragon dancer. its best set is choice band, thats the one that kept it ou last gen

>>30740031
>Darkrai lost his niche in better sleep move, now gets btfo by Koko and Lele, Pheromosa, bulky VoltTurn spam that's everywhere, really anything with a scarf and neutral stab; still has sick coverage though

Dark Void was always just the icing on the cake for Darkrai.

It still has base 135 Sp. Atk, 125 Speed, and Nasty Plot.

It's still too much for OU.

>>30740169
How many NFEs are above Articuno?

>>30740286
>It still has base 135 Sp. Atk, 125 Speed, and Nasty Plot.
All of which aren't as good as it used to be, anon.

135/125 offensive stats are barely mid-tier in OU now. Nasty Plot pushes it to "slightly broken", but it's still frail as fuck and gets outsped by a lot of shit.

>>30737172
>All the good wallbreakers are in higher tiers. >Have to rely on weird shit like weepingbell and escavalier to actually kill things.

>>30740312
Articuno is S tier in FU, but you still have Electabuzz, Fraxure and Murkrow directly above him.

>>30740358
How come Murkrow is even that far down when it got Prankster with a decent bunch of moves like TWave and Haze?

>>30740358
And how many are in PU? Because I know a bunch were in RU/NU, but FU is not an officially listed tier on their site and I'd rather not have to go digging around to see just how bad iceburd is.

>>30740286
Pheromosa is 137/137/151 Atk/SpA/Spd, and plows through tons more shit than Darkrai could. Bad example maybe cause she's probably gonna get canned, but if we were talking about a tier that is allowed to power creep like we are, then Darkrai would be right at home.

>>30740407
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-fu-metagame-discussion-old.3519286/

Azumarill should be deleted from the game.
Fuck that thing.
Besides that CharY, Thundurus and Jirachi need a removal from the tier ASAP, I have no idea of why they are even letting these guys.

>>30740544
Weavile, Latias, Kyurem-B and Gengar are pretty broken for the tier as well.

I'm just happy I get to use Banded Scizor like it's BW2 and HGSS again.

>>30740544
BAN EVERYTHING THAT BEATS ME REEEEEEEEEEEE
Fuck off, Azumarill gets fucked by Thunderbolt and Tapu Lele and Jirachi is perfectly fine besides flinchhax

>>30740544
>>30740600
oh wait forgot we were talking about uu lol
nvm bl that shit quick

>>30740600
He's talking UU, where Tapu Lele doesn't exist.

>>30740600
Azumarill fucks every thunderbolt user on the switch and if it belly drums it can aqua jet most TB users out of existence besides a very few exceptions like the rare Rotom-Mow and Heliolisk who is non-existant right now.
>Tapu Lele
>UU
>Jirachi
Z Happy Hour turns it into a giant ball of aids

>kyurem-black in uu while white still sits in ubers
Is this the most cucked legendary of all time?

>>30736979
Look ma, I'm on /vp/! Right there on the bottom!

I won btw

>>30740669
I haven't used Z-Happy Hour on mine because I'm also using Porygon Z
What's better?
Because PZ is making things EZ right now in OU

>>30740690
There's Articuno in PU, while Zapdos was OU last gen.

>>30740575
I haven't had any trouble with Weavile though I know it tends to be incredibly obnoxious when paired with CharY since it removes most of its checks.
The others yeah are fucking ridiculous.
I have mixed feelings about Scizor but despite how much I love using band Scizor I know damn well UU can't handle it.

>>30740724
those are the gen 1 birds, we all know gen 1 has been powercreeped to fuck outside of mewtwo.
kyurem-black is a fucking 5th gen box legendary, there is no reason for it to be this shit

>>30740722
In OU? Porygon.
In UU Jirachi is basically unstoppable after Z-Happy Hour, if it flinches your checks once or twice you're dead as fuck.

>>30740735
You have Char Y and Weavile in a meta without Chansey.

Sure, you have Blissey, but it's getting no usage.

>>30740340
>gets outsped by a lot of shit
It gets outspeed by like four relevant things.

>>30740735
the problem is that the bar for what is "uu" has been raised because ou refused to quickban the ubs/tapus
you cant ban 2/3 of the tier to keep old things relevant, the things that got pushed down have established a new standard that you have to consider

>>30740827
>Pheromosa
>Mega Zam
>Mega Beedrill once it gets released
>Mega Manectric once it's released
>Mega Lop once it's released
>Ash-Greninja
>Tapu Koko
>Weavile
>Zard X at +1
>tied with Marshadow once it gets released

altilt has a small penis xD

>>30739638
>>30739638

>unban Reshiram
>test Darkrai
>leave Genesect

fuck you.

>>30736979
>anything but cart

>>30739827

>Toxapex
>ban worthy

I'm so glad /vp/ is shit at video games, because imagine if /vp/ dictated what gets banned or not. Every tier would be a shitshow.

>>30740954
It's not ban-worthy, but if that tier got made, you'd be sure it'd be used, since it's one of the best walls in the game.

>>30740894
>zard at +1
Boosted pokemon barely count, Pheromosa gets outsped by a bunch of stuff if we count that
>Phero, Zam, Weavile, Ash-Gren
Those are the four I counted

The megas are unreleased so they're no concern right now.

Marshadow is going straight to uber.

>>30740894

And literally none of them can switch into Darkrai.

>>30741027
Barely anything can switch into Greninja (Protean or Ash) or Pheromosa either, and they're not banned.

>>30741060

yet

>>30741083
yeah, but the point is instead of banning one threat, which allows another mon to become broken, only to ban it too, which allows another mon to become broken, etc, you just unban all the shit tier ubers and let them all roam free and things would semi-even out.

>>30741030
Koko can unless you really want to try and use a Poison move on a predicted switch and then get fucked by a Steel type switch in
Manectric isn't going to get used but it probably can and Volt Switch in your face to wall
Weavile unless you're real and Focus Miss and hit it
Zard-X should
The question is how the fuck are you getting Darkrai in except after a kill, in which case the killer is probably something speedy anyway

>>30736979
Reminder that there's no "powercreep"

There's just more good Pokemon being introduced. If there was real powercreep, Garchomp would be UU.

>Deoxys-roach is always paired with the priority cucker
>Outspeeds and OHKO's everything after one boost

To Ubers it goes!

>>30741188
>There's just more good Pokemon being introduced
That's literally the definition of a powercreep

>>30741027
>Marshadow is going straight to uber.
Honestly I doubt that. It's very reminiscent of Gen 5 Terrakion
>Average bulk, high (but not ridiculous) Atk, great speed tier
>excellent STAB coverage along with some useful coverage moves
>Close Combat is very spammable, but the secondary STAB has its downsides (Stone Edge misses and Spectral Thief not being too powerful)
>a situational ability that may be left unused for full battles
Don't get me wrong, it'll immediately be top OU, but I feel that there will still be things to keep it in place.
Recall that by Gen 5 the few resists to Rock+Fighting were shit and/or frail, yet it could be checked somewhat comfortably by the likes of Slowbro, Lando, etc. We'll just have to wait until Marshadow comes out to see which checks arises for it, if any.

>>30738511
Bubububu buttfaggggggoootttt

>>30739827
That would fix a lot of OU's problems.

>>30741227
A
FUCKING
MAROWAK
also cucks Tapu Volt Switch and Celestalla
ooh and Tapu Leech Seed and Kartana
And Genesect
And Xurxitree
Why don't you have an A-Marowak on your team it counters like half of OU

>>30741338
How does it feel getting cucked by Garchomp?

>>30741338
Marowak gets fucked by Rotom.

>>30741338
Xurkitree and Tapu Koko are now running HP Ground to deal with Maro. It 2HKOs offensive Marowak, so if you catch one on the switch, it's done.

>>30740544
Latias is busted to hell, that defensive calm mind set wrecks shit if you aren't carrying weavile or some other pursuit trapper.

>>30741391
>>30741408
that's why pokemon has this thing called "switching out"

>>30741408
>>30741391
thats when you double, predicting the switch
tapu bulu is cucked by celesteela, but does that make it a bad pokemon by any means?

>>30741428
I run SpDef Marowak with some offensive capabilities. Serves me well.

>>30741278
inb4 bulky intimidate Staraptor desu.

>>30741278
Not the guy you replied to, but I think it has a CHANCE of hitting ubers.

>along side the amazing STAB coverage, it gets elemental punches, tech/STAB boosted priority, tech boosted acrobatics (while holding item), AND tech boosted Hidden Power with a very usable 90 base SpA
>honorable mentions being stone edge poison jab
>gets support and sweep moves with WoW, bulk up, (and calm mind if you're crazy). Can get decent recovery with STAB drain punch on said sets. Has enough bulk to use them
I don't think boosted HP, Acrobatics, and Sneak is as situational as you think, but I guess we'll see.

Terrakion doesn't have NEARLY as many options as Marshadow does just comparing move pools alone. If Marshadow got SD, I think the answer is clearly Ubers. As it stands, it's up in the air.

Can we talk about how Dugtrio is the best fucking Pokemon in OU right now?

The +20 attack is SO noticeable. I've been basically revenge killing everything. So much fun.

>>30738250
I play with DD Dragonite
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-495955898

>>30741592
>Acrobatics
Neat but what is it realistically hitting that it can't just kill with its STABs?

>Hidden Power
See above, at least HP Ice Terrakion held some merit for Lando

Those options like Wisp and Bulk Up are neat for offensive teams but it'll be smashing them regardless - especially with the brn nerf, they may not be enough to let it push through fat shit like Hippo or Tangrowth. Again, it's reminiscent of Terrakion in Gen 5.

>>30739827
>Genesect and Deoxys being "shit-tier ubers"

ayyyy

>>30740253
>dragonite is not a good dragon dancer. its best set is choice band, thats the one that kept it ou last gen
In what universe is Dragonite a good choice user?

Please explain to how a pokemon with access to extreme speed plus multiscale is a bad dragon dancer?

Am I retarded or is /vp/ just filled with noobs?

>>30741796
banded was just as good as DD, if not better

>>30739638
I wish we had access to Darkrai.Shit would be cash.

>>30741718
Marshadow can also HP Ice for stuff like Landorus or Garchomp, since it avoids Rocky Helmet. Though it's not the best option, you can run Pursuit too if you want to catch things trying to switch out.

>>30740340
>>30740286
What are you going to do if it runs

252 SPD/252 Sp. Atk
@Focus Sash
Nasty Plot
Dark Void
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast/Hidden Power Fire

Good-bye checks you can't priority kill it with sash intact and Darkrai will always sleep first turn to get a free +2 boost.

>>30741822
Garchomp has better STAB's for running choice band, plus it's much much faster. What does D-nite offer except choice band non-STAB priority?

>>30741895
>Dark Void
anon...

>>30741718
>Neat but what is it realistically hitting that it can't just kill with its STABs?
Some things that Talonflame kept at bay. Volcarona, hits M-Saur hard, Bulu, etc. Maybe there's a better move to put in that slot, but it's an option on the table.

HP Ice Terrakion is coming off 70 SpA, 60 BP. Marshadow is 90 SpA, 90 BP. Significant difference.

This mon also can't get up rocks like Terrakion did. I can see where you're coming from when you compare them, but they're much more different than you think. A glace at their movepool will tell you this.

>>30741822
also as for why dragonite is a bad dragon dancer, i've never used the set but my guess would be move issues. first 2 moves are DD and dragon stab, but after that you want EQ for heatran, as well as fire punch for skarm/scizor/ferrothorn, and even then youre stuck with nonstab and not particularly strong attack for all the bulky fairies running around

>>30741851
it gets ice punch. but even still, that 90 base spatk can go a long way it seems
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 221-263 (54.9 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so maybe youre right, it definitely has more going for it than terrak did, but i still would avoid calling it "insta ubers"

>>30741921
>great priority move
>fire punch
>multiscale
thats about it

>>30740031
>>Deo-D aka "man i wish there werent suddenly five billion stall killers"
>Deo-D
>Stall
I thought Deo-D's schtick was being the perfect lead for Hyper Offense?
>>30741718
Marshadow actually wants HP Ice because otherwise Lando-T walks all over it.
>-1 252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 103-123 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
>0 SpA Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 288-340 (90.2 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

>>30741957
???

>>30741971
>multiscale
Yes, and? Multiscale allows you to get a free DD.

>>30741987
>I thought Deo-D's schtick was being the perfect lead for Hyper Offense?
all deoxys are good for that purpose

>>30741957
Wait wtf? I thought Dark Void had perfect accuracy?

>>30742071
Dark Void was nerfed to 5% accuracy

>>30742071
>???

Dark Void got nerfed hard

>>30742096
First off, no, it had 80 accuracy.
Second off, it got nerfed to shit and now has 50% accuracy.

>>30742071
multiscale can be used on the banded set effectively as well as on DD
>send it out on pretty much anything
>force opponent into a situation where they cant one shot you, and you can very likely one shot them

>>30742096
Nope, it had 80 and was alright, now it has 50 and you have no reason to not use Hypnosis besides Dark being immune
Psychium-Z Xurkitree pulls off sleep->boost->sweep better than Darkrai, and synergizes with Koko to boot

>>30741987
>0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian
Well, the bulky set is just as popular, BUT this is just as good.

>36 SpA Life Orb Technician Marshadow Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 385-458 (100.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just a little splash into SpA and it's a OHKO. I'm also going to make the prediction Life Orb will be the standard on it.

>>30742135
My favorite thing to do is run weakness policy DDance

The best time to switch was on a -2 lati because odds are they'll do it again

Then boom, 1000 attack with +2 priority

>>30742196
Marshadow will be on every single OU team, goddamn.

>minimum investment to destroy 2 of the most used mons in OU in one hit

>>30742196
Jesus shit how did I completely forget about Life Orb.
That's it I'm done I've lost all hope of ever gitting gud.

>>30742196
>technician hidden power

Dear God

>>30742260
>>30742196
Ugh, can we remove all mixed attackers from the meta game?

>>30742196
Will this be the first usable Technician HP user in OU? The only other user is Roseraid and it's pretty trash for OU standards.

This will be a fun Pokemon to use. It has a strong move in all types.

Can someone RMT? Does pretty well except against M-Venusaur.

>>30742357
Even Cacturne?

>>30742405
Just Lucario, Genesect, UBs and Marshadow.

>>30742402
0/10 doesn't exist

>>30742446
http://pastebin.com/2n2txKgH

>>30742502
looked at it for 20 seconds

why the fuck do you have a pelipper?

there's 0 rain synergy

>>30742537
it just werks.

Lol I don't know I did have thunder on Jolteon and ferrothorn LOVES rain

Should I run Milotic or Starmie over Pellipper?

>>30742502
you're a tard kill yourself.

>>30742628
I am winning most of my games.

>>30742502
>those names

>>30742745
>not naming your pokemon memes

I changed Pelliper for Rest Talk Milotic

File: Marshadow.png (28KB, 140x177px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30742196
HE
HAS
NO
COUNTERS
HE HAS NO CHECKS
THIS WAR GOD
SWEEPS THE POKEDEX

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where is Umbreon now? :3

>>30742736
where on ladder

>>30742784
Quite literally, with his movepool this might be correct:

>Close Combat
>Spectral Thief (best physical Ghost move, with a free Psych Up)
>Ice Punch
>Fire Punch
>Thunder Punch
>Stone Edge
>Grass Knot
>Sucker Punch
>Poison Jab
>Technician Acrobatics
>Technician Pursuit
>Technician Hidden Power
>Technician Rock Tomb (10 BP less than Stone Edge, less misses, plus speed drop will be useful on some teams)
>STAB/Technician boosted Shadow Sneak

Bonus moves:
>Will o' Wisp
>Bulk Up
>Calm Mind

Fun cheese set moves:
>Counter
>Endeavor

It has SOOOOOOO much going for it. If it's not Ubers, it's an OU staple.

when did this thread become ou discussion

>>30743044
capped this post

good list

>>30743044
Spectral thief doesn't just copy boosts, it outright steals them

>>30742943
Probably RU

>>30743319
Even better.

>>30740690
I sort of hope it never gets physical ice STAB because it's fun to use in OU and would get the boot so fucking quick.

>>30743433
Z-Freeze Shock is pretty good, but yeah it needs Icicle Crash or something.

>>30743319
not only that, it only takes positive boosts. So you wont be stealing the opponents speed drops on curse or something.

>>30739827
More like Aeiou

>>30737312
Nah, current system mostly makes sense as far as naming goes

OU = Overused
UU = Underused
RU = Rarely used
NU = Never used
PU = Pitifully used
FU = Fucking useless

The things that don't fit into this convention are Ubers/BL. BL should be renamed to Banlist. Ubers should be renamed OU-Banlist, BL1 is UU-Banlist, BL2 is RU-Banlist, ect, ect. It would make much more sense for new players this way and be more descriptive, instead of seeing BL4 and having to think what tier that poke is playable in they see PU-BL and know that the pokemon is PU by usage, but banned from the tier due to strength. I think the SABCD rating system is best used to describe the viability of pokemon within their tier, but the tiers themselves are determined by usage and that should be indicated by naming conventions.

AG can remain the same because AG is basically just the lack of a meta, do whatever you want.

>>30737193
By what metric? What we'll be seeing with the new generation is probably a slightly more centralized OU with many of the old OU pokes falling into UU/BL, which will cause many of the pokemon who get cucked out of roles there to fall further down in usage, effectively just shifting tiers down. FU should probably become a tier this gen just to absorb the 'drop outs' of PU.

The 'bad' outcome here is that some of the meta leads try to maintain the current power level in their tier and create very large banlists which prevents this trickle down effect, but I think that most of them are reasonable and understand that power creep has to be accepted to some degree, it always has been. Gen 6 UU contained some of the nastiest shit from gen 4/5 OU like Hydriegon.

>>30740764
Zapdos has basically been OU or BL for most of its history though while the other two birds haven't been relevant in a tier higher than UU since like gen 2.

>>30740690
it's most likely going to rise to OU

it can hold itself against the tapus pretty well

>>30744518
>tfw Articuno was a decent wall since nobody used fire types
>Then the Stealth Rock kingdom attacked.

>>30744625
I remember actually using it to mild success in ADV OU, but I get the feeling the rest of my team probably carried it

how long before we get the FU tier?

>>30744625
It was outclassed entirely by Regice starting in Gen 3. Articuno also went from mediocre to intolerable after losing its 125 SpA in the Gen 2 transition. Don't act like rocks severed its claim to fame.

>>30738675
Tru

File: porygon-z beam.jpg (227KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

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>OU pokemon all drop to UU
>but my bro Porygon-Z is up to OU so I have to build a team with legendaries and cancer in order to use it

Pyrrhic victory right here

Can someone RMT?

http://pastebin.com/YMwGGH5v

>>30742784
>choice band it
>watch things die

choice band close combat 2HKOes mega heracross, even if is a resisted hit

>Tfw want to do neat pokemon battles on wifi
>Don't have any decent natured tapu's or UB's
>Will need to hack or ask a hacker dude for a hand out just to compete
>GF will never have a mode that bans all UB's, Tapus, Legends, etc for multiplayer

Feels bad man. I just want to dick around, have some fun with my lower tier poke in randoms.

I-I guess i'll have fun with the Battle Tree. At least Mimikyu is good there, r-right?

>>30738463
>Gengar gets nerfed
>"Gengar not being OU is proof of power creep!"
You dingbat.

>new toy syndrome
Nothing wrong with testing the viability and versatility of the new Pokemon.
We've got years of proof that Gengar, Scizor and Keldeo are threats in high level play, if you're that upset people are testing out new stuff then just wait a month or two for the tiers to stabilise.

File: 1450773473819.png (406KB, 617x1018px) Image search: [Google]

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>UU

>>30747811
Level up your UBs and Tapu's to like 90s, put them up on the GTS for themselves until you get a good nature one.

>>30747811
You do realize that Mimikyu is super fucking good in Battle Spot singles, right? It almost feels like it was practically made for that format. A lot of the top players on the leaderboard are using one on their team.

>>30738927
more like psychic field not only makes him absurdly strong, but prevents priority attacks that would kill him like shadow sneak or sucker punch.

File: SFDGTRF.png (297KB, 838x414px) Image search: [Google]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsYvrWztoE4

File: Stop saying UU you little shit.jpg (525KB, 1920x1770px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30748351
Delet this

>>30748516
Apparently minior is really good in it too.

File: minior-core[1].jpg (29KB, 356x380px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30748910
Well no shit. It has amazing defenses in its base form, has fucking Shell Smash AND Acrobatics. This thing sets itself up with one move, and then it wants to RAPE.

> Shell Smash
> Get boosted
> White Herb restores lost defenses
> Now item-less, so Acrobatics hits like a runaway freight train.

Stare into the face of murder, Anon. It smiles, because it knows it's going to tear shit apart.

>>30739827
Someone go over the Smogon forums and suggest this idea. Not exactly these mons cause >Toxapex, but the idea in general, there are a lot of "to good for OU, to terrible for Ubers" already.

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>>30748937
>It has amazing defenses in its base form
>60/100/100

>>30748954
Your better sugesting this in the Other Metagames sub furum, like an Uber UU
Is the only way to start if you dont want to be called shit

>>30741449
>>30741461
Sometimes I feel that only bad players get there asses handed to them by Phero. It's a easy mon to play around with, but you also have to know HOW to or else you will be royally fucked.

File: 1481306060988.png (337KB, 526x712px) Image search: [Google]

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>yfw gf plan all along was to screw over smogon tiers

>>30741188
Except Garchomp WAS power creeped seeing as no one uses it for offence anymore

>>30749298
Garchomp being a support tank is weird

>>30749033
For me the problem is that it's such a late game Pokémon that can outspeed a number of scarf users makes it scary