Hi! We're UU!

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>that entire first half

>>30659997
Crabominable?
Nice.

>>30659997
>my boy whimsicott, gone

>>30659997
Source

>>30660154
just new toy syndrome

Give it another month or two and it'll hit PU like it deserves :)

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-11/Stats/gen7pokebankou-1695.txt

Link

Everything under Hippowdon would be UU

Keyword would be, as UU doesn't exist yet and won't until January

>>30659997
>OU is Ubers-lite
>UU is Gen VI OU
>RU ends up as Gen VI UU
>NU is Gen VI RU
>PU is Gen VI NU
I don't know what to think of this

>>30659997
>Dragonite
>UU
>when Drizzle Pelipper exists

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>talonflame

>>30659997
the power creep is TOO real

>tfw I remember when Kyurem-B was bretty gud in Ubers

>tfw your bro Blaziken is still banned, even with Blaze as her ability

>>30660209
>doesn't work
Source

>>30660277
>her

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Oh god. Don't tell me mah bro Haxorus fell another tier.

Getting nothing good this gen does a lot of shit to you.

>>30660287

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-11/gen7pokebankou-1695.txt

Try this

Is this the first time people witness the beginnings of a new competitive generation? Usage doesn't mean shit for the first couple of months since people are still using the new toys, once things settle people will go back to their old reliable bros, in the meantime you'll see weird shit like Weavile and Kyurem-B in UU.

Hell, at the beginning of last gen Deoxys and Landorus-I, mons who are both Ubers level, dropped to UU for a month whilst the meta was settling. It was hilarious to say the least.

>>30659997
Unlikely

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-usage-statistics-discussion-thread-mk-2.3508502/page-10#post-7126789

>gliscor
>dragonite
>charizard
>azumarill
>keldeo
>necrozma
>latinas
>scizor
>thundurus
>volcanion
>jirachi
>gengar is near RU
Is this what TRUE powecreep looks like?

>>30659997

This always happens because people are testing out the new mons.

Once the meta settles and everyone knows which new mons are good and which ones aren't, stuff like Gengar will rise to its proper tier.

>>30659997
What the hell are Keldeo and azumarill doing here?

>>30659997
>Gliscor
>Dragonite
>Charizard Y
>Azumarill
>Weavile
>Slowbro
>Togekiss
>Breloom
>Serperior

Oh fuck, does Mega Ampharos and Feraligatr have a chance in UU? I love those guys.

Guzzlord will be NU, sadly.

>the thing with 5 Speed and 2 attacks, neither of which give it STAB and require damage be done to it first, is UU
That's not staying for long.

>>30659997
> Gliscor
> Azumarill
> Keldeo
> Latias
> Zygarde 10%
> Amoonguss
> Scizor
> Alolan Muk
> Jirachi
> Primarina
> Volcanion
> Bewear
> Slowbro
> Wishiwashi

What the fuck are all of these doing in UU?

>>30659997
I love playing OU!

>>30659997
>GENNIES IN UU
>GENNIES IN UU
>GENNIES IN UU

fuckin ruined.

Wow, UU actually looks fun

>>30660416
I can't see any of those being UU except MAYBE Gengar.

>>30660202
whats your crab switch in

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>>30659997
>Thundurous
>in UU

>>30660691

Even without Levitate, Gengar is too much for UU.

>>30659997
What the fuck have the Ultra Beast done to the meta? Game Freak wasn't lying when they said regular Pokemon weren't a match for them.

>>30660210
W-what would Gen VI PU be equivalent to then

>>30659997
I thought Necrozma was OU? what happened

>>30659997
>700 fucking BST with the ability to hold an item
>UU
KEKEST DRAGON

ICICLE CRASH NEVER EVER

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>>30660842
Have fun in BL hell!
>mfw Ohmori is slowly assassinating all the old blood's favorites

>>30660880
FU

>>30660943
When are they gonna bring FU back

It was a meme pseudo-meta but it was comfy

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>>30660416
>latinas

>>30660974
What was it exactly?

>>30661010
A tier below PU

>>30661028
They never even disclosed what PU stands for, did they? Not Pathetically Used or Poorly Used was it?

>>30661078

They said that PU doesn't stand for anything.

Say it out loud and you'll get it.

>>30659997
W-wait weren't Volcarona and Starmie OU?

>>30661088
I mean

I get that, but I still wanted it to stand for something.

Though if they're going that route, I guess FU would be the next logical step.

>>30661078
PU was always a pun, with people saying it meant "Partially Used" after the fact

>>30660938
I wonder how fucking huge BL is going to be.

>>30660154
its defenses and speed suck but its attack stat and stabs are too good to just look past. it works as a great revenge killer

>>30660315
Blame KyuB for having no moves to keep it higher.

>>30661187
What is it revenging? Ferrothorn? I mean even Golem outspeeds it.

New toy syndrome, no way will Keldeo and fucking Thundurus stay in UU

>>30660210

this literally happens every gen. Go look at the OU's from gen 3, then the UU's of gen 4, then compare the OU's of gen 4 to the UU of gen 5. It's called a power creep

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WELP

>>30661294
it's partly a power creep, but some of it is definitly new toy syndrome

>>30660189
priority is dead. anything that relies on it is done.
>Tsareena
>Tapu lele
>All dark types stop prankster
Rest in shit Thundurus, You've been replaced by Koko

this will probably change once pheromosa is inevitably banned too

Pyukumuku? Really?

>>30661149
I wonder if it'll finally become a tier.

>>30661367
Are you surprised is that low or that high?

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>>30661363
Pheromosa is to weak for ubers it has to stay in OU

>>30661424
Being too weak for Ubers never matters.

>>30661399
It would be pretty pointless tho. BL is a ban list, and unlike Ubers, BL has OU above it. Sure, Ubers has AG above it, but it's more like an Other Meta game than a serious tier and is also a ban list itself.

>>30661489
AG should never have been created IMO

Ubers was never meant to be balanced

>>30661507
Any meta that lets me use a full Rotom team is fine with me.

>>30661469
Is there a tier in between OU and Ubers?

>>30661598
I've heard they might make one because of how big the "too good for OU, too shitty for Ubers" list is getting.

>>30661598

No

Ubers is a banlist for OU. It being a tier was just an excuse to kick Mega Rayquaza out.

>>30659997
>UU
>Necrozma
>Volcanion

>OU
>Pelipper

This is one crazy timeline we are living in.

>>30661714

none of this shit is going to last. we'll all be using the same 25 boring OU's + new legends within a year

>>30661624
>>30661633
Sometimes I wish GF would just make an entire game with no new pokemon and put all their effort into balancing shit or making new niches for shitty pokemon. Then I remember mega-fug exists and the kind of people they are. I wonder how many tiers there will be in 2 generations

>>30661327
Mega Scizor is the most popular mega and it relies on priority.

>>30661827
I feel like it's mostly just prankster mons that got fucked by the new priority counters

>>30660625
They're not, it's just that BL doesn't exist yet and /vp/ is retarded.

>>30661826
>gamefreak makes completely balanced, perfect, fun game for everyone
>"competitive scene" gets ahold of game
>play it for one week and don't even try to figure any of it out
>HURR I can't beat X! It's too broken! BAN.
>Fuck now Y is broken, BAN!
>now q, r, s, t are broken. Ban!

>end up with 30 banned mons several banned strategies and moves
>game stagnates around the same 10-15 mons with everyone using the same stupid team

>smogon: this is much better :)

there is a reason gamefreak doesn't put effort into balancing anymore

>>30661826

I honestly am so happy that Mega Fug exists. The fact that they not only made something blatantly broken but did it in the absolute funniest way is just straight up gives me giggles.

Like, they made it and fucking nudged each other with the biggest shit eating grins on their faces. There's no way that didn't happen.

>>30661987
You're speaking as if such a thing has happened in the past and they've learned from it. Or that GF would ever give a shit about smogon. Or that smogon would need to exist if GF was actually competent at balance in the first place

>>30661987
>anymore

At least they're giving stat buffs, ability changes and wider movepools to absolute shitmons. The last time gf did any "balancing" was the phy/special split and weather nerfs.

>>30661987

Is this what bait looks like? I'm new to this neighborhood.

>>30661987
Why would any of that happen if the game was completely balanced and perfect?

Who exactly are you implicating in this hypothetical?

>>30662007
If nothing else it has me convinced that there's going to be something just as bad if not worse when it comes to palkia, dialga, giratina, and possibly arceus if they ever remake those games

And god knows what after that

>>30661987
When people post retarded shit like this it just comes off as sounding like you've got no idea what you're taking about.

>>30661137
FU is Fucking Useless

>>30662093

because the second smogon encounters a strategy they aren't prepared to deal with they can't resist banning it

>>30662067

do you think you could balance a game with that many characters?

Don't even bring up MOBAS, those are even WORSE when it comes to balance

>>30662093
it is impossible for pokemon to be perfectly balanced

>>30661826

gamefreak's inability to balance their game is mind boggling to me. it's like they attempted to address power creep this generation, but still added tons of broken shit and failed at actually balancing the game at all. it's like theyre always trying to push the envelope, so every gen we just get more ridiculous shit, and they're too incompetent, indifferent, or oblivious to do anything about it.

>>30662184
how WOULD you balance the game?

>>30662205

There's no way to balance it perfectly. but not giving massive buffs to already powerful Pokemon (i.e. Primal Groudon) is a good place to start over from.

>>30662163

who is smogon? do you mean the community? shouldn't the community be able to decide what's banned in their metagame? do you think that the majority of the smogon community wants the things unbanned and that a minority pushes the ban? do you think everyone just loves using mega kangaskhan and there's a small group of people called smogon that don't like it and banned it on showdown so no one can use it?

>>30661826
>let's make a pokemon with dual 180 offences
>then let's give it respectable 105/100/100 bulk
>then give it a speed of 105
>let's give it an ability that removes some of its weaknesses too, because why the fuck not?
>oh also it has a flying type close combat
>AND IT DOESN'T NEED TO HOLD AN ITEM
What the FUCK where they thinking?

>>30659997
>Azumarill
>Alolan Ninetales
>Minior
>Alolan Raichu
>Dhelmise
>Slowbro

Already have them bred and trained, cool.

>>30662205

do you expect me to have a specific list of changes I would make to balance the game? I'm not a game developer, I haven't given serious thought about how to balance Pokemon for a moment, but it's immediately obvious that the the type chart needs to be changed, power creep needs to be addressed, and blatantly broken shit shouldn't have been made because now it can't be removed without the fan base reacting negatively.

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>>30659997
>Scizor, Gliscor and Larvitar are UU
If they actually do end up being UU then I no longer have any reason to ever go back to OU again.

>>30660416
No, because everyone's still playing with their new toys.

>>30660865
It's the UBs and the Tapus.

They basically introduced a bunch of Min Maxed Pokemon to the metagame who are all only held back by sub optimal movepools.

Once the Tapus and Ultra Beasts gain access to Move Tutors, get ready for bullshit

>>30662391

>bred and trained

UU only exists on showdown, I don't know why this is relevant

>>30662401
>Larvitar
Meant Volcarona. Not sure why the fuck I said Larvitar.

anyone have the updated OU pic?

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>>30659997
I guess it's better this way for my pokewaifu, she'd get mauled on OU

>>30662205

I would start by taking a hard look at every single pokemon and what I want them to do.

Some obviously aren't meant to be competitive battlers. Shit like Unown is obviously for pokedex filler, don't bother with that shit. Same with random rare pokemon, starters, and in-game bosses like wishiwashi. Others are put specifically in the game to help you with one aspect of in-game and nothing else, like Luvdisc for heart scales, ditto for breeding, etc. Ignore those too. Lastly there's pre-evos which don't matter at all unless they can abuse eviolite like chansey and legendaries, which also can be ignored since my ideal metagame won't use legendaries at all. (just banning legends from wi-fi should do it).

That should get rid of the vast majority of pokemon, leaving me with just around 100 or so to actually worry about balancing around. Once that's done I simply divide them up into categories and balance them from there, using previous meta games as reference points. I would erase their entire movepools/abilities and start from scratch.

"We need X amount of special sweepers of A,B,C,D,E, and F types" then I pick and choose what pokemon are good fits for those categories based on the tools they already have (if they don't already fit the concept I can change their stats/ability till they do) and try to design them around that specific aspect. The more similar I make them the better since there's less chance for outliers who become broken, but I'd try to give them their own unique spin on things and not make it obvious I gave them near identical stat spreads.

Then based on the types I decided I would add X amount of special walls of A, B, C, D, E based on what typing and moves I gave the offensive mons and what would best counter them. Do the same for physical attackers/physical walls/physical tanks and mixed as well.

(comment too long)

>>30662539
90% sure it will drop to RU

>>30662165
It's not even that the balance is bad. A lot of things are poorly balanced. It's just that the balance is that bad. Even in Alola there's shit like Lurantis, which is worse than Tsareena in almost every way possible. And Tsareena isn't even good. I'm not asking for perfect unobtainable balance or anything, but they can put in a bit more effort than this.

Why was there alot of normal ??? Pokemon this gen like we got normal fighting normal dragon and normal psychic

>>30659997
oh look all my favorite pokemon from this gen.

>>30662568


Once I have my basic offensive pokemon all down, battle tested against each other and balanced, it's time to spice things up with utility pokemon. What types of non-offensive non-damaging moves work best and counterplay with my attackers/walls? Should I add entry hazards? Any gimmicky pokemon I can add to alter possible strategy? Would adding any counter strategies or anti-meta pokemon help improve the game at all?

The utility and gimmick pokemon are where the fun comes in as you're no longer limited creatively to just thinking about basic offense/defense and can shape the meta around for example, rain or sand.

After I finish balancing singles, I would balance doubles while I'm at it. Basically just using the same techniques.

>>30662629
For the sake of completion, mostly.

And the side-effect of triggering people who get upset every time Normal is paired with something, I guess.

>>30662576
I wouldn't be that sure. It has a good-enough offensive presence with base 120 attack, and offers important utility via Rapid Spin. Queenly Majesty can be clutch, though it's not as good as Psychic Terrain. If it does go RU, it'll have a niche in UU.

>>30662781
>it
Female only brah

>>30662997
dont the anime and games usually refer to pokemon as it even if its a gender specific pokemon?

>>30663042
Yes, that guy just has autism.

Not judging anything until Pheremosa and Celesteela leave OU

>>30662205
I would start by making Ice not shit.

>>30663060
You don't refer to your male dog as "he"?
I don't like saying "it" for pokemon. They're our friends after all

>>30663101
>Celesteela leave OU
top kek

>>30663101
I doubt Celesteela will move up. Pheromosa is possible.

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>>30659997
The power creep is real

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>Starmie
>not OU

>>30660211

People use Ashinja for their rain sweeper. Having Triple priority STAB off of base 153 special attack.

Also, Dragonite gets fucked by the grill Tapus

>>30659997
How long until BL is its own true tier?

>>30663042
Did you not talk to NPCs in SM? They dropped that rule for individual Pokemon, but the Pokedex still refers to the species as it.

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what are some games where I can be a complete failure to my Box Legend pedigree and not even make it into OU let alone Ubers?

>>30663172
They'll probably call it SU - Standard Use (and because Smogon University)

>>30661987

Yeah, because Gamefreak is hella incompetent. They can barely ship out a product. They don't have the talent to actually balance Pokemon.

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>>30663212
>SU

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>>30662205
I'd scrap and redo all stats so every pokemon within a rarity to have the same BST. No more power creep. One everything is even it finally can be about strategy instead if strongtest 10 forever.

I'd also have a group of 10-15 yearolds playtest it and give me their best teams. I'd then fix anything that a small kid could tell was broken.

> But teens can't tell this shit
Feh. You haven't been around teens lately have ya?

>>30663196

charizard/blastoise/venusaur were all UU in gen 1.

>inb4 underage try to say starters weren't considered box legends back then

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>>30663249

>>30661214
Golem outspeeds it and 1 shots it with an Effective Stab.

Craboinable is the worst pokemon in this gen because firstly:

Its fucking Ice, and Ice actually sucks ass, so they need better pokemon

Secondly, its the slowest and most defensiveless pokemon.

Trick room memes.

>>30663116

Pokemon are only your friends if your autistic

>>30663373
pokemon are only autistic if they're your friends
:^)

>>30663354
Golem doesn't have SE STAB on Crabonimable.

>>30663354
>, so they need better pokemon

Or more aptly ice needs less weaknesses. They keep trying to make ice a bulky wall yet it

Fire is weak to: ground, water, rock.
Infective on: Fire, fairy, ground, rock, water.

Ice is weak to: rock, fighting, fire, steel
Infective on: water, ice, rock, fighting, fire, steel

Ice just is too ineffective a type. Outside of killing dragons and grass walls it's too delicate and can be resisted by too many things to not suck.

It makes me sad. I love lapras.

>>30663437
does golem even need SE STAB to KO crabonimable?

>>30663437

electric hits fighting SE

>>30661137
I think they changed it from FU to ZU recently.

>>30663501
No it doesn't, retard.

>>30663498
I think so. Try some calcs.

>>30663501
>electric hits fighting SE
...are you sure you're not thinking of water...?

>>30663437
Thank fuck I never typed Super and only EFFECTIVE

>>30663528
>>30663540

sorry, I meant electric hits ice SE

>>30663284
silly underage, we had enough information on what a legendary pokemon was back then to know the starters weren't legendaries

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>>30663569

>>30660154
theres no way

>>30659997
>Things that will stay UU by usage
Azelf, Necrozma, Kommo-o, Zydog, Scizor, Minior, Golisopod, Mew, Primarina, Scolipede, Volcarona, Alolan Persian, Togekiss, Diggersby, Araquanid, Alolan Muk, Thundurus-Therian, Slowbro, Tangrowth, Latias, Volcanion
>Things that will rise back up to OU
Gliscor, Dragonite, Tornadus-Therian, Charizard-Y, Azumarill, Keldeo, Kyurem-B, Weavile (give it time), Amoonguss, Breloom, Serperior, Jirachi, Thundurus, Starmie (it will take a while),
>Things that will drop to RU or lower
Pyukumuku, Alolan Raichu, Salazzle, Decidueye, Dhelmise, Alolan Exeggutor, Komala, Alolan Golem, Wishiwashi, Talonflame, Smeargle, Guzzlord, Crabominable, Drampa, Vikavolt, Silvally (every form will be tiered separately), Alolan Sandslash, Tsareena,

>>30663561
Who the fuck uses "effective" by itself? Use neutral if you want to refer to an attack dealing 1x damage.

>>30663569
Epic shitpost!

>>30663498
Depends on EVs. Full HP Crab has a 50% chance to get OHKOd by Return with a Life Orb. Full Defense will live. Double-Edge will OHKO both. Choice Band just kills it no matter what.

>>30663587

but what about gengar

>>30663593
Game Freak

>>30663593

>use the words I tell you to use so I don't get confused!

k

>>30663587
Pyukumuku can easily stay UU. Quagsire had a pattern of going from PU to OU to PU, and Pyukumuku is not as easy to exploit while having some great utility. (inb4 taunt, that stops Quagsire too)

>>30663354
I can't choose between Gumshoos, Lurantis and Crabominable. Gumshoos is slow, frail and can doesn't even hit that hard outside of Adaptability or Strong Jaw boosted moves. Lurantis only has Defog and recovery, it doesn't have enough offensive presence even with Contrary because it's so slow. Crabominable is too slow, has mediocre bulk, but at least has a phenomenal STAB combo.

>>30663587
What about Lycanroc? Will it stay in UU?

>>30663641
Quag could at least scald and EQ. Pyuku is pretty garbage overall.

>>30663665
You are going to rage the fuck out when it dies to literally every single Pokemon in 1 shot, and doesn't outspeed any of them.

>>30663569
ROCK hits Ice SE.
There. I saved your ass

>>30663669
Lycanroc has great speed which is boosted even further in sand. So, probably. For now the only things really holding it back is its shallow movepool.

Not sure if its frailness matters.

>>30663679
The same could be said of the other two mons I listed. Seriously Gumshoos is depressing, it gets Strong Jaw but only two moves to use it with. I don't even want to talk about Lurantis.

>>30663699
But fighting resists rock.

Golem can learn Brick Break in both forms which is SE vs Crabshitonable

>>30663707
Im talking about midday btw.


Midnight...yeah. It's slightly more bulky but slower and rock is not a great defensive typing. No guard is a good ability but besides stone edge not having a chance to miss I don't think it has much going for it.

>>30662121
are you ready for pure power primal Regigigas?

>>30663641

Pyukumuku literally doesn't have a single offensive move.

>>30662313
>then give it a speed of 105
Mega ray has 115 speed not 105.

So people will shut up about this

>252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Return vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Crabominable: 315-372 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
>252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Crabominable: 370-436 (110.1 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30663824
So I was right, but it doesnt even need a STAB? LMAO

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>>30663806
z-counter/bide

>>30663699

crabominable isn't a rock type though

>>30663844
That is STAB. Galvanize makes the return/edge electric

>>30663869
Right yeah I saw that after I posted my bad sorry bro we all miss things, I just hope the next thing I miss is a child on the street so he lives.

>>30663671
Missing out on Scald burns is a bummer, but having no 4x weakness, much better SpDef, and Baton Pass makes up for it.
>>30663806
Doesn't really need one considering Unaware makes setup useless and he can pivot with Baton Pass.

>>30662568
>>30662672
You put a lot into this so I wanna say it was a nice read.

Its true that the reshuffling only really needs to happen to fully evolved Mons and Eviolite abusers. Though I think having more Eviolite abusers in general would be nice

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>>30659997
>Arceus's retarded half-cousin somehow is UU
He's gonna be knocked down to RU once Pokebank comes out

>>30663172
BL isn't even a tier like RU, UU, OU, etc. - it's the banlist for UU.

>>30663707

both sandstream users are OU tho. if hippo or tyranitar doesn't drop then lyanroc probably won't be UU because terrakion does everything better.

>>30663824
What if you have a Speed nature, Speed EV Crab, what will it outspeed?

>>30663885
Quag only has that one weakness, though, and it has a good immunity.

>>30663902
I can see rock pup being BL2

>>30661078
I thought it was Pathetic and Useless

But then there are pokemon that are PU even by PU standards

>>30663928
Pyukumuku only as 2 weaknesses and can bluff Innards Out to temporarly prevent those from attacking.

>>30663953
Practically Useless

>>30663569
You see, the first wasn't funny but that was hilarious. This is the shitposting I miss

>>30663913
You hit 203 speed, which beats Adamant base 50 mons that run max speed, like Choice Band Aggron.

>>30663623
there is no way gengar would be balanced in RU
>>30663641
(You)
>>30663669
No, it just has nothing over other Aerodactyl. And the Midnight form will be even lower.

Tiers should go like this

AG
Ubers
OU
UU
RU
BU (Barely Used)
PU
FU

ZU should be used in the nuclear scenario that the series ends

>>30659997
>staraptor will still be in BL by the time gen 13 comes out

>>30664123

you missed the point dummy, I was asking if you expected gengar to stay where it is or move to ou

>>30664132

so replace NU with BU? what does the accomplish!

>>30664177
Oh fuck I forgot NU

Put it under BU

>>30663739
Oh shit, you're right.

That nigga's boned then. I tried!

Anywho, wherever Tsareena goes, I go. I'll start by removing poisions and abusing Z Splash as far as it'll take me. Then I'll settle for synthesis + 3 attacks

How the fuck is charizard there? Does anyone actually have it yet in SM or is this for after pokebank is released?

>>30664225

After bank

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which pokes are going to get banned

i haven't gotten deep into the s/m meta yet and i already hate the tapus

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>Gliscor
>Amoongus
>Azumarill
>Starmie
>Latias
>Charizard Y
>Thundurus
>Breloom

Please no, UU was my safe space

>>30663902
You forgot Gigalith

>>30664276
BL is going to be big enough to be its own tier

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>>30659997
>Charizard Y fucked over.
My poor Volcarona is still getting shit on too of course.

>>30663587
>Volcarona
It's probably getting banned to BL again.

>>30664652

with some luck, bravest bird's ban might make volcarona OU again

>>30660296
>>her

>Implying that female starters can't exist.

>>30664675

meant to say nerf

Ok, so Kyurem-Black's flaws are many and numerous, but it still had one huge thing going for it.

Base 170 ATK STAB Outrage with base 120 SpATK STAB Ice Beams and Draco Meteors for backup.

I assume it's a repeat of Gen 6 and it won't actually stay out of OU, but assuming it does, what would be the cause?

>>30659997
>Muk
>UU
yeah thats a really fuckin funny joke OP

>>30662568
>removing pokemon
Thats a terrible idea

>>30663196
>170 attack
>no physical ice moves
JUST

You are now aware that there is NOT A SINGLE ICE TYPE IN OU

>>30666308
Memeoswine

>>30665690
Tapu Fini's aura halves the damage of dragon moves. Tapus are also all fairy type and on every team, and Genesect/Pheromosa are everywhere to revenge kill.

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>>30659997
>They ruined my favorite tier
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Where's Arcanine? RU?

>>30662205
Just to highlight one example of an unbalanced game element: Stealth Rock

Type-based hazards aren't bad per se, but since Stealth Rock is the only option it balances the meta against rock-weak types. Not only that, but it removes a large chunk of health, too. God forbid you have a 4x weakness. A Pokémon has to be excellent to be competitively good despite being weak to rock.

If there were different type-based hazards, and with more niche distributions, the meta could be made more balanced. Ideally, the health penalty would be smaller, too.

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>UU Kyurem-B
>UU Gengar
>UU Dragonite

>>30659997

>Drampa a hair's breadth from RU

How are people sleeping so hard on him?

Just a question. There's all this talk about teams. Is there a teambuilding thread? I need assistance with my OU team, but more advice would be helpful.

>>30663133
I honestly think Celesteela is more problematic than Pheromosa. Celesteela is a chore to kill and requires being able to deal more than 36% damage on a bulky fuck with great typing to have a shot at dealing any damage.

It has a serviceable movepool with a 120 STAB and Flamethrower (Killing Scizor) or Air Slash for coverage.

Generally Pheromosa gets absolutely shittershocked Pelipper with a Greninja on the team, Toxapex or Marowak. Celesteela is checked by Marowak and is a chore to deal with otherwise.

>>30664438
Why would it? If this is taken as an indicator of what will be in UU, that means there's so many of the old OU squatting around they essentially just bringing that dynamic down to UU. There's no reason to ban anything because the bannable mons are now numerous enough to be a meta and interacting with each other, rather than singular centralizing, OP force.

>>30661137
FU is "forgot to use". it's a shit name desu

AG - Anything Goes: Home of Mega Fug
Ubers - Home of many Legendaries
OU - Overused: The standard tier. Home of the Tapus and UBs and Toxapex and the chosen elite
BL - Borderline/Banlist? The poor schmucks who will be too pathetic for OU but too good for UU Everything from this point on is a fucking loser.
UU - Underused. Home of Gen VI OU's former stars.
BL2 - Borderline 2/Banlist 2? The pathetic schmucks who are too worthless for UU, but too strong for RU
RU - Rarelyused. Home of Gen VI UU's former stars
BL3 - Borderline 3/Banlist 3? The worthless schmucks who are too pathetic for RU, but too strong for NU
NU - Neverused. Home of Gen VI RU's former stars
BL4 - Borderline 4/Banlist 4? God we're really reaching the low point, but the schmucks who aren't good enough for NU
PU - Poorly Used? Home of Gen VI NU's former stars
BL5 - What? We're really going this far? Yes we are.
FU - Fucking Useless. The bottom of the barrel. Pokemon who can't do fucking shit.

>>30659997
>has less bulk than regular Exeggutor
>all those point removed from bulk was redirected to Attack
>Frisk is more situational than Harvest but it has more uses
Besides being part Dragon now, what am I missing about Alolan Exeggutor?

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>>30662510
I don't know if this is an updated pic but I save it from some days ago.

>>30659997
My whole in game team

>>30665690
Kyurem Black is Ice Type thats why it has shit usage.

>>30668750
>If there were different type-based hazards, and with more niche distributions, the meta could be made more balanced.
Hell no. Balance isn't going to achieved by adding more stuff like that, it'll be easier achieved by taking away from what's already there.
I'd remove type-based hazards completely. Stealth Rock should punish Flying-type and Levitate Pokémon only, as they can avoid all other forms of hazard, and should take 12.5%, maybe 18.75% of their health, not 25% and sure as hell not 50%.

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>>30659997
>Araquanid
>Gengar
>Alolan Muk
>Decidueye
>Vikavolt

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>>30659997
>UU
>Vikavolt
you fucking shit

>>30663277
This. I'd also add on that every Pokemon that is fully evolved should not have a BST below 500 and any monster above 600 (including mega evolutions that go above 600 and formes that are above 600) should be banned, not "all legendary pokemon and mythical pokemon". If we're going to allow the pseudo-legendaries, ultra beasts, and lesser legendary pokemon to stay, there's really no point in banning the few legendary pokemon that have BST 600 and mythical pokemon (who are all BST 600 except for Arceus).

>>30659997
A lot of these will probably come back up once OU bans are done. If the standards for OU are "able to compete with Pheromosa and scarf Tapu Lele" then of course a lot of things aren't going to meet that.

>>30660210
Thank you. I was thinking the same

>>30666308
But it has physical ice moves.

>>30663679
252+ SpA Pheromosa Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crabominable: 117-138 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>>30661624
There's just not enough mons to have anything close to a stable tier yet.

>>30662163
This is really shitty b8, dude. Smogon has actually waited a hella long time to ban Phero.

>>30668999
I always thought it stood for "fuck you"

>>30659997
Where is Staraptor

>>30668966
>Celesteela is checked by Marowak

just run earthquake :^)

>>30671396
forever in BL

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>>30668966
Nigga's been removing Scizors, Skarmorys, Ferrothorns, and even Choiced Excadrills with surgical precision for years now. What the hell makes you think rocketwaifu is going to stop him?

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crabominals is just a physical Mega abomasnow.

while Crabominals has worse defense/Spdef .

has better HP and speed,
has the same attack can also use an item,
no reason to Use M Abomasnow with crabrominal and A.Ninetales this gen
Unless you like it

>>30660911
I'd be happy with fucking Ice Punch at this point.

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>>30659997
alolan Long Neck will be in a higher teir than M-rayquaza, its really obvious.

pic not related

>>30671596
Flamethrower/Fire Blast.

>>30670682
Bruh, if it at least had fucking ice punch it wouldn't be in this sad state, I like the bugger and use it whenever I can but goddamn.

>>30670155
If it had a strong physical ice STAB you'd see the thing more often because a physical bolt beam combo is scary.

>>30671698
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 344-408 (86.4 - 102.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Celesteela Fire Blast vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 252-298 (78 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And that's assuming somebody's running offensive Celesteela, which nobody does. And even if they did, Magnezone outspeeds uninvested Celesteela with 12 speed EVs. The only Celesteela with a chance of beating Magnezone is a fast offensive one, which isn't a problem for anyone.

>>30671609
Mega obama has ice shard if I remember right.

>>30663901
This is UU for Pokebank.

>>30660555
Feraligatr is an example of a pokemon good enough for a higher tier but just strictly outclassed by others so it's fine if you want a bro but otherwise you should just gyrados. So yeah good stuff in uu

>>30659997
Blame Smogon trying to fit 3.4% usage mons out of a roster of 800 mons into a single tier.

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>>30659997
Welp, time to play PU, I guess. Or whatever the fuck they split NU into.

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>>30659997

Sup, nerds.

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>>30659997
Hey, It actually looks good. There are a lot of Pokemon that I like. The SUN might set in OU but it rises in UU!

>>30659997
>Minior
>Salazzle
>Scizor
>Gengar
>Slowbro
>IJustNut.png time to play UU even more

>>30660724
>what's any bulky water
>i actually mean what are the 150 bulkywatermons

>>30670722
>found the autist

now that Scizor and Gliscor are UU what mons do you think would be great partners for them?

also why is Mega Scizor OU but Scizor UU? i thought regular was better than mega

>>30659997
>the idea of UU stall is dead

>>30675497
It was already dead last gen tbqh. I loved bw2uu bc it had so much diversity. Oh well ill jist stick to Ru and NU

>>30660202
>:)
Kys

>>30659997
>what is BL

>>30671596
Earthquake

>>30669905
Thats the old one

>>30660202
>Give it another month or two and it'll hit PU like it deserves


Yesss, good goood...
We can use more toys in PU.
Come on over. You'll be free of nasty legendaries.

All the new Pokemon I want to use are in UU?
I don't believe you.

>>30659997
Let the meta balance out, right now people are just testing every new mon and seeing what works. This picture will not be indicative of gen 7 OU a few months in.

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>>30659997
these pokemon have been ou's worst last gen and I'm glad the new threats pushed them out. Keldeo is the only one that'll probably go back to ou next month.

>>30677448
>free of legendaries
>What is Articuno

>>30662427
>>30662427
You can easily request battles on the Smogon forums. And in ORAS setting your message to "UU Singles 6v6!" would get me spammed with requests

> R.I.P PSS

;_;

>>30661624
>We will have a Deoxys vanilla tier in our life time

>>30677570
I hardly see articuno

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>>30669578
You forgot Cosmog Teir: Cosmog with Assult Vest

>>30659997
>Azumarill
>UU
Z-Belly Drum would like a word with you

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>>30663772

So how is Mantine now that it has +20 hp and Roost?

>>30677813
bretty good

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>>30677813
These are the OU mons btw

>>30671839
>He doesn't run speedy Celesteela with an Assault Vest
I've been ripping every Magnezone I see in half and tanking my way to victory.

>>30675491
Mega is nearly unkillable and can set up on a ton of threats. The only thing that hits it is fire and it can still bulk HP Fire from certain mons.

>>30677719
>Z-Belly Drum heals Azu to full before going full rape cannon
JESUS FUCK WHAT

>>30659997
I thought decidueye got put in ou (for some odd absolutely unknown reason)
Nice to see a-sandslash at least make uu

>>30675491
the mega-slot is free. No more diancie, gardevoir, medicham, mawile or lopunny begging for a megastone. All the amazing stones are still banned from gen 6 too so that leaves you with metagross, pinsir, scizor, charizard, venusaur or sableye.

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>>30659997
>Decidueye higher than Tranny Seal
>Baracat doesn't even place
SO BTFO YOU CAN'T EVEN MAKE THIS SHIT UP

>>30678213
Gardevoir probably doesn't have as much of a place anyways because Lele exists. Alakazam seems interesting though.

>>30678260
oh yeah there's alakazam too, that one is good atm as well. Gardevoir uses its ridiculous fairy stab whereas lele uses its ridiculous psychic stab so they're still different enough from each other.

>>30678123
Z-moves were a mistake.

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>>30677698

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>>30678123
You have to get past this first.

>>30678324
They're different enough, but they do share typings and Lele brings a lot more utility to the table on top of being able to use the Mega slot for something else.

>>30659997
I guess I'm not a UUfag anymore...

>>30678420
>Implying every team uses Volcanion

>Minior is UU and will probably stay there
Shame,I liked the design and gimmick. Too bad he can't survive he past turn one.
At least my bro Mimikyu seems to be doing okay so far.

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Anchorshor or 0 IV speed gyro ball?

>>30678123
It's not as good as you think. It heals to full, then takes off half HP.

>>30678462
and gardevoir has the utility of not being dependent on the terrain to hit hard. They both have drawbacks.

>>30678559
Look at the rest of UU. This tier is insane now. There's no shame in being a part of it.

>>30678609
if you use z bd after you bd then you get fully healed.

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>>30678559
Best rock can definitely compete in OU though.

Mimikyu is my favorite this gen and I was kinda hoping it would be UU so I could use it in UU and OU. Happy to see its good though.

>>30678617
Lele can run Specs or Life Orb if you don't need the speed of a scarf set. I'm not saying Mega Gardevoir is completely worse, but Lele will surely cut into its usage.

>>30677847

>Leaks: Oh fuck the UBs are gonna dominate everything.
>Release: Wait, no, it's just Pheromosa and Celesteela.
>Now: Scratch that all of them except Guzzlord are still great

>>30662672
It would never be this easy. People would eventually use something not in its intended way to their advantage, or find that x is objectively superior to y because of z, or find something that you did not think about considering the sheer number of elements in the game. You might be able to bring things closer together, but I don't think it would be that close. Anyways, it would be boring if you thought "what do I want this pokemon to do" while designing its stats and movesets, because then everything would be a one trick pony.

>>30678752
Same here, was expecting GF to give it shit stats because of its ability.

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>>30679149
Yeah I was scared of the "single stage shitmon" syndrome getting it but things turned out great. It's one of my top pokemon now.

>>30659997
That January update cant come soon enough. Some of these seem BL tier at least, or are just down in UU because of NTS or what have you.

>>30678123
It still leaves it at 50%, so it's not -that- bad.
Even though being able to use Belly drum whenever you want is kinda broken

>>30679552
Anon, if you use normal belly drum first, THEN z belly drum you heal to full.

>>30659997
>Jirachi
Okay, this one is the most blatant "People don't know what they're doing". Jirachi got a massive buff in the form of Z-Celebrate, which boosts all it's stats a stage and lets it outspeed everything. That's going to straight up to OU once people realise that.

>>30660904
Look at its movepool and tell us seriously that isn't terrible for OU

>>30679737
Except for the power / coverage issues and the fact that you might as well use Porygon-Z or any other good Z-move mon to fix those, sure.

>>30679642
What's the point of doing this, when your opponent is most likely going to attack you while you recover, other than waste a z-move ?

Alolan Muk is such a bro. Cripples Sableye due to Prankster nerf, blocks most physical attackers etc

UU looks fun as fuck

>>30670792
>Smogon has actually waited a hella long time to ban Phero.

I'm sorry anon, but some fuckheads banning shit in a game is stupid no matter what. And this shit only happens in videogames. Mostly nintendo games.

You didn't see football fans going FUCKING BAN PELE BAN HIM HE IS TOO FUCKING GOOD BAN HIM NOW!

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I'll just leave this template here

>>30679985
Even official Nintendo rules ban stuff though. Otherwise you'd be seeing Mega Ray and three Arceus everywhere.

>>30680043
>Even official Nintendo rules ban stuff though.

Yeah, OFFICIAL rules aren't the same as shitter shattered fans. I didn't think I needed to explain that I meant I don't like fans trying to make rules on top of official rules.

>>30659997
Reminder that these stats are already confirmed to be thrown out, as new toy sydrome is simply too much of a factor to call these stats accurate.

>>30659997
>Crabominable
Really? It's not PU trash?

>>30679985
>comparing athletes who train to get good to fuckos making overpowered shit they can change with a few keystrokes

lmao

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>Azumarill knocked to UU
>It got fucking buffed this gen
UU is in for hell.

>>30677391
Where's the new one?