Is Cynthia a Mary Sue?

>>30629483
No?

>>30629483
No, she's a disgusting pervert who has a thing for little girls.

>>30629504
boys*

>>30629483

No, she's a good wife to Dawn.

>>30629561
>>30629483
Why do people never know what a Mary Sue is?

>>30629597
It's turning into a buzzword because people see it a lot without bothering to look it up and just assume shit

>>30629519
Both*

>>30629597
Because they're idiots

>>30629483
she gets defeated??

>>30629561
Is mary sue just a word that means "popular character I dislike" now?

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>>30629561
If N is a Mary Sue then Cynthia is definitely a Mary Sue.

>>30629561
How are they Mary Sues, but not Cynthia? Especially in the Anime where she somehow kept the champion title after fighting a team with Latios and Darkrai on it, with possible other Legendary Pokemon that are High OU to Ubers even.

>>30630005
Nah I'm pretty sure he means it like "side character that gets any sort of development I will refer to as forced"

It's certainly not the correct definition but it's what they think

>>30629643
Or they're just shitposting.

>>30630049
Being strong enough to beat Darkrai doesn't make you a Mary Sue
having Darkrai in the first place does

>>30630068
So instead of being hipster faggots they're just retarded, gotcha

>>30630049
The ashnime is retarded. The fact that there even was some random shitter with a Mythical says it all.

As far as the games go, she's just a a frequent cameo because Masuda loves her and she was the most popular non-protag waifu (prior to Lillie). For the record, I also don't consider N or Lillie Mary Sues.

>>30629483
She's not a character, she's the champion, perfect is the goal for many of them.

She's not important enough for that, she's just your average bad character

>>30629483
Yes, but she's well executed so it's okay.

>>30630082
shitposting ironically is still shitposting

>>30630258
>Champions aren't characters
>Perfect is the goal for many of them
??? Most incoherent post I've read all day.

>>30630297
lmao

>>30630465
What's so funny?

>>30630724
How is N a shit character? Who is the least shittiest of the three?

>>30630724
>N is a self insert

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>>30630724
>A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities
>Describes none of the characters listed
low quality bait, have a sage

>>30630724
Correct me if I'm wrong don't N and Cynthia canonically lose so they can't be Mary Sues

Lillie on the other hand is borderline, but needs help so that isn't Sue-ish

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>>30629483
She is my wife

>>30630788
N singlehandedly ruined gen 5 with his boring story and boring battles.

>>30630914
That's not all the qualities which make a Mary-sue/Gary-stu anon. They have to be beloved by all which none of them are, except Cynthia and that's just because she shows up like what once or twice besides the fight.

If anything the only Mary-sues of the franchise are the ORAS protags and Zinnia.

>>30630974
You also forgot the XY Protags who are handed free pokemon besides the starter, are the chosen one, and all their friends lives revolve around them

>>30629483
no. she's basically the standard pokemon protag as an adult.

Mary-sue is an old fanfic term meaning a character who is adored by everyone in-story (except sometimes the edgy villain who secretly wants to bone them), and/or who has special snowflake secret powers.

Cynthia is more competent than many in-game characters and is arguably boring, but she's certainly not a Mary-Sue.

>>30630914
>and they do save the day with their unrealistic abilities
N is literally the villain in BW, in B2W2 he gets beaten by Ghetsis and gets his drage absorbed, Lillie doesn't do shit and relies on you through the whole game, so if anything your MC is the mary sue.

>inb4 merely pretending

>>30630895
How was his story boring?

>>30630914
(you)

>>30631046
To be fair, N does have a unique superpower that bends the usual canon rules a little. But I don't think he meets the criteria otherwise; he's soundly shown to be wrong in his beliefs by the end of the game. A Sue is always right.

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I don't see how N is a Mary Sue when he has so many terrible things happen to him.

>>30631091
I thought the average person found N strange or some shit in Black/White. Like he was shunned by people or something.

>>30631091
Being the "chosen one" doesn't make you a Mary-Sue. You're using the definition to mean, essentially, "a character who's really cool and does cool hero stuff", which is a bastardized use of the term. Stories focus on out-of-the-ordinary/powerful characters for the same reason that documentaries focus on interesting phenomena and events.

>>30631091
Lillie is hated by her mom and Ghetsis thinks of N as a useless puppet after he loses. They are hated. And besides that a mary-sue has a perfect identity.
N was emotionally abused all his life until he couldn't understand the difference between reality and fantasy even if it was right in front of him.
Lillie was almost to that point with her mom. We don't even know how bad it was, for all we know Lusamine was about ready to freeze Lillie like those pokemon she kept.

>>30630914
>Cynthia, N, and Lillie are bland enough and have enough one-liners to be a self insert,
Like literally every Pokemon character ever.

>>30631087
Superpowers in and of themselves don't make a mary sue, N is a punching bag for Ghetsis in the actual stories. I'll admit he'd be close to a sue if he wasn't shown to just be Ghetsis's loser puppet.

>>30631091
Besides the brainwashed plasma grunts, no one really likes N and considers him to be wrong or somewhat misinformed about the relationship between humans and pokemon.

Lillie on the other hand, you have character talking about how you should be lucky to have a friend like her. How cute she is. Asking where she went and how soon we can meet her. Blah, blah.
Like that one anon said above, she skates on the border of being a full Mary-sue.

>>30631091
I don't remember the gym leaders fawning over N or Nanu and Guzma worshiping Lillie

>>30631091
Barely anyone likes N, in fact there are more people that hate N than like him, Lillie has people that like her but most characters are indifferent or hate her (lusamine and presumably faba)

>>30631212
Except Lusamine who disowns her right in front of the player and then proceeds to emotionally abuse her by trying to kill her pet in from of her own eyes.

>>30631212
>lucky to have a friend like her
>how cute she is
>asking where she went

I don't even remember the first two, so if you aren't pulling them out of your ass, they're obviously not as frequent as you make them out to be. And no shit people would want to know where someone went. Is Hau a Gary Stu because people occasionally ask where he went?

Do you actually know about what makes a character good or do you just automatically call all characters you dislike Mary Stus?

>>30631212
Those aren't qualities of a mary sue, its like saying if anyone likes any other character in a game they're a mary sue.

Lillie is far from a flawless character and plenty of people hate her guts especially contrarian faggots on /vp/

You know who's actually a Mary Sue? You. The player character.

Literally no one in the whole world compares to you. The whole world revolves around you. You solve problems that no one else could and are world-threatening events. Legendary Pokemon love you and fall on your lap. All important people in the Pokemon world like you and support you. You become the bestest strongest trainer ever of the region in less than a year beating people who have been Pokemon Trainers for even decades.

>Lillie can't even deal with grunts the majority of the game
>she is totally a Mary Sue gaiz

>>30631476
this

>>30631476
Yeah but you're the main character a lot of mary-sue qualities come from non-main characters trying to become one like Zinnia. Of course there are times this fails and the player is a mary-sue.
Good example, gen 6 protags which reduce every other character of the story to worshipers like in ORAS or XY where you get all the cool stuff no one else can get such as Mega stones.

>>30631592

Thanks for the entertainment cuck.

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>>30631592
reminder that this is the classic response when someone gets btfo and doesn't want to admit it

>>30631592
>I WAZ JUST PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED

Cynthia doesn't even do anything.

She just sits back and lets a 10 year old fight the boss of team galactic and later giratina without lifting a finger.

>>30631592
you're pretty good at acting like a retard it's experience or were you born with this ability?

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>>30631592
Called it>>30631046

>>30631691
W-what's on his crotch

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>>30634199
Cascade badge.

There are no Mary Sues in Pokemon because you literally beat everyone. No one is better than you, the player.

The closest is Zinnia since she just randomly comes out of fucking nowhere and beats a bunch of main characters and is right about everything and is 10000 years old or some stupid shit I can't remember about that terrible plot.

Gamefreak loves to push Cynthia as one of the series more recognizable faces since she has a good character design, team, theme, champion battle, etc. but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue since she's constantly losing to protagonists. N kind of is and buries the fuck out of Alder but he still gets his ass kicked and is revealed to have just been a tool used by Ghestis. Lillie can't even fucking battle and is scared to even be in the vicinity of a wild Pokemon until the very end at Vast Poni Canyon, she's by no means a mary sue other than the fact that everyone likes her. (Though every non-villainous character seems to like each other in Pokemon)

>>30630788
That's not what it means