What went wrong?

>>30627753
Nothing.

>>30627753
Nothing is without flaw.

>>30627760
Did you see the usage stats that came out today?

Embarrassing.

Decidufags on damage control, I see.

>>30627781
So you're blaming them for using the best options available to them?

>>30627868
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

PFFFHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

>>30627887
?

Genies.

JUST

Look, although Smogon is not perfect, a group like them was inevitable considering Pokemon's popularity and human vs. element.

Generally I think they're a positive force, if only for the data collection they provide. Whatever flaws Smogon has, it's due to inherent human failings (bias, bandwagoning faggot niggers) that are inevitable and unavoidable.

That's the truth.

Fuck uncreative bandwagoners though.

Basically a bunch of autists that nobody cares about in a positive way. People 0pe get triggered by then and the backlash begins etc.

They need to accept they are a minority and will not be taken seriously except for by themselves.

Vgc doubles will always be the regarded official competition. Everyone on wifi battle disconnects me cuz i dont meet their "smogon tier " they put in their wifi message, i kust laugh uncontrollably

>>30628453
I forgot to mention they are useful for data collectiom and quickly checking things on their site

>>30628453

It's funny because people on smogon disconnect on me 70% of the time. It's the most asshurt player base on the internet.

>>30628453
you are aware you're at best a minor annoyance for them right?
they just disconnect and battle someone that does abide by those rules not giving you any thoughts?

>>30628530
99.8% of people don't follow their rules m8

>>30628530

They are still being bitches.

>>30628552
its way more than that and even if it was, they'll just find someone else to play with
>>30628564
they asked for someone to play in a certain way
you don't play in a certain way
they don't play with you

what exactly did you expect would happen?

6v6 Singles is inherently flawed, or at least favors too much on stage hazards with half your team is exclusively checks against the meta.

Having to pick 3 out of the 6 of your team while knowing your opponent's team is half the fun/game honestly. A 6v6 loses a lot of fun just from its format. Dealing the cards you're dealt ect ect.

That being said I am violently opposed to clauses, fuck them. And fuck them banning Swagger and trying to ban Mega-Gengar from OU. I am still mad.

>>30628604
They would disconnect like 50 plus times before they find someone m8.

Thays pretty sad

Will literally never forgive them kicking M-Mawile into Ubers where it gets dunked on 24/7 for being the worst mon in Ubers

>>30628609
mega gengar was necessary
there was no counter to his strategy because it explicitly prevented you from acting

>>30627753
Gen 4 when they decided to ban Garchomp. They eventually became trigger happy and idiotic.
Battlespot 6v6 when.

>>30628530
Less than 5% of people (thats being super generous) would be playable for them...... wayyyyyy less

>>30628609
so, you'd be okay losing to a team consisting of nothing but choice scarf OHKO users?

>>30628669
I agree but that was a typo. I meant to say banning Mega-Gengar from Ubers. Fucking unbelievable.

And let me add to that reply, banning Funbro I get, but making a SECOND anti-stall clause because some chucklefuck made a Durant-Gothittle stall duo in singles? Get your shit together Smogon.

In gen 5 Smogon fucking LISTED a swag-play set for Liepard, but now because Smogon was too buttblasted from their Mega-Kanga circlejerk they had to ban an ENTIRE MOVE because Booboo Keys made them run a different looking team from Gen 5

Utter disgrace

ITT no legitimate criticisms of smogon. Both before and after my post.

>>30628609
You enjoy your entire team being put to sleep I see.

>>30628761
I perfectly understand banning mega-gengar from everything
shadow tag+perish song is cancer incarnate

The thing about Smogon is that there's really no one else out there to take its place

>>30628753
I know you are citing VGC's item clause, and I also know the Sleep Clause was introduced in VGC's Pokemon Colloseum tournament, do you see a sleep clause in VGC now? If Smogon wants to try and make a Confusion Clause (this was fresh in my memory before they ultimately decided to ban an entire fucking move) then I think they're fucking retarded. Making new clauses out the ass only to serve their own meta they themselves don't want to change with each new Pokemon installation

>>30627753
Ten thousand useless tiers.

>>30628842
Anyone remember that EU Pokemon website that was worse than Smogon back in 2013? I think they banned half the megas from their OU before the game even dropped iirc

>>30628885

Smogon actually needs more tiers.

>>30628787
Too difficult to participate in

>>30628867
do you really want your entire team to be asleep?

because there are plenty of ways to guarantee it happens

and their meta changes each gen, and heck smogon tournaments have consistently been more varied in team design than VGC, which is still the ultimate goal of all the bans and clauses: to allow a maximum of pokemon and strategies to be usable

>>30628890
Wait, really?

>>30628842
because any group that attempts to compete gets fagged out of existence, or end up following in the same stupid footsteps.

>>30628918
What do you propose then big guy?

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>decidushit and redditpod don't make the cut
>Suddenly, dozens of threads whining about Smogon pop up

I have a serious question, what ACTUAL problems do people have against Smogon? It's a separate community with their own "House Rules" which in no way forces you to play it. Is it wrong to want to create different teams which thrive under different formats?

I just feel like I'm missing something huge.

>>30628965
Wait...redditpod? That's a new one.

>>30628984
there's a group of people enjoying themselves
this is 4chan
do the math

>>30628842
Because it'll all end up being either the same thing or complete shit, like that one /vp/ format that was tried.

The people on this board still can't grasp what the word "competitive" actually means.

>>30628965
We have people shitting on smogon every day you retarded frogposter.

>>30628984

My only problem with them is that the community ragequits more than any community I've ever seen in my life.

>>30628943
Maybe a community not run by a bunch of self-serving autistics? Maybe a group that understands that trying to balance something that they have no real control over by creating clauses, tiers, and other faggy house rules will get them nowhere?

>>30628984
The people complaining about Smogon don't actually understand anything at all about what Smogon does. They think that Smogon is shitting on their "bros" by putting them in certain tiers when in reality tiers are usage-based.

Hell just look at all the "it's not OU therefore it's shit" threads that popped up today thanks to the release of the new usage stats.

>>30629083
if everyone in their community agrees to adhere to their clauses then by definition they have control over it
and if the end result is a more enjoyable experience there's nothing futile about their efforts

>>30628912
But banning Swagplay and Baton Pass teams because they are too good is a better excuse to diversify the amount of viable strategies? Spore users were annoying, yes but most of them were also slow. Smeargle would see most use in doubles in VGC because of Dark Void before it got nerfed.

But it was still a frail sash-user that would be outsped by most other pokemon in the game, the second fastest spore user was Breloom who hardly saw the light of day because of Talonflame. I know what Smogob is trying to do but it ends up them simply making a different game that is not Pokemon's VGC formats for this very reason. They aren't without criticism and in my personal opinion I feel like most of my criticism of Smogon is well justified and would only benefit the website to better inprove their own circle-jerk attitudes about the meta

>>30628916
I think I was referring to Pokemon Online with the .eu. I don't remember it well because everyone thought it was complete shit. Still is imo

>>30629083
Tiers make sure your shit team of Sunflora Dewgong Lumineon Unown Camerupt Heliolisk won't have to face against bullshit like genies/Chomp/Tapu etc.

Why do you motherfuckers WANT a situation where only 30 Pokes can ever be used out of a pool of 800?

>>30629114
Name one thing that smogon has done that has actually affected the games? They have no real control over anything but their own community, which is fine as long as their goddamn members realize that outside of their community they shouldn't act like sperglords to people who don't want to buy into their bullshit.

>>30629007
Ok, that's what I figured. I do understand that the community itself can come off super pretentious, and as >>30629053 stated, rather childish. But outside of that I don't see the problem of that community existing.

>>30629088
You see, that's the shittiest excuse I've seen against Smogon. This is a fucking real life phenomena that happens in any ecosystem. If a niche exists, whoever could fulfill that niche best will kill off anything else. The fact that your "bro" isn't OU only means it could be used in more tiers (just not as effectively as something that exists in OU). Shouldn't that actually make them happier?

swagger ban

>>30629150
baton pass teams without limitations, are so good, that there is no viable counterplay other than a team designed specifically to beat baton pass

this would result in everyone playing counter-baton pass teams slightly modified to beat other counter-baton pass teams

>>30629150

Look, let's say that Smeargle has a Sash and Spores your first mon. You then either have to switch out, and get Spored again, or watch it start Dragon Dancing or whatever in front of you and then it BPs to something that rolls through your entire team, and there's 2 ways around this strategy and if they anti-lead you you're fucked.

That kind of play is not skillful and not fun to play against. This is why the Sleep Clause is there. You can already lose the game having one of your Pokemon eat Hypnosis, why make it worse? Would you like facing teams of six Darkrai that just Dark Void your whole team pre-DV nerf? I've faced that before. It's not fun, it's not skillful.

Now, sometimes Smogon goes overboard, but a lot of these clauses and bans aren't just some shit they made up for no reason.

>>30629178
and if they clearly state they want to play by the rules of their community, how is it in any way sperging when they don't play with YOU because you don't play by the rules of their community?

what obligates them to play the game as YOU want it to be played? If anything YOU'RE the sperglord.

>>30629178
But it's the opposite that's happening though? I haven't seen like any Smogonretards sperg out about anyone else or anything and mostly just do their own thing on their website and simulator.

Meanwhile this board has asspained people bitching about Smogon every single day.

>>30629178
Except that never happens? Literally nobody is forcing you to play by Smogon rules. Ten year olds on Battle Spot that ragequit when you use a banned pokemon or move don't count.

>>30629194
>The fact that your "bro" isn't OU only means it could be used in more tiers (just not as effectively as something that exists in OU). Shouldn't that actually make them happier?

Like I said, the people bitching about Smogon don't know what the shit they're talking about in the slightest, so you can't actually use logic to try and understand their thinking.

>Gen 3
>Smogon just uses the Nintendo banlist except with more stuff allowed, ie. legendaries, because they were smart enough to realise those things actually weren't overpowered enough on their own merits to be banned

>Gen 4
>Same as Gen 3, except this time they're faced with the problem of Garchomp, who is a Pokemon not on Nintendo's banlist but who was just too good. Smogon bans him for the health of the metagame. This unfortunately opens the floodgates for them to ban anything and everything, and completely deviate from Nintendo's ruleset, based on who can argue better / who is a mod / who sucks enough mod dick

>Gen 5, 6 7
>Complete trash. Every second thing is banned for being "too strong", failing to realize that the bar has just been moved. Fall over themselves making ridiculous complex bans about Pokemon you can use in weather, Pokemon you can use with Baton Pass, etc etc. Ban Pokemon that check other Pokemon and then complain that the now un-checked Pokemon is broken. A complete clusterfuck of kids who think statistics are a good way to measure how fun their rules make the game.

If the games introduced a simple "no legendaries 6v6" then Smogon would be dead.

>>30629267
Spend any amount of time in a gathering of pokemon players. You know, actual interaction? The past two cons I've been to with pokemon meetups, and both of my local game typically have 3-6 people going around talking down on people that don't like to play smogon, and acting like they are UBERLEET because they use showdown at home.

>>30629330
You literally don't know anything about Smogon.

>>30629330
well, until its flooded with dedicated baton pass teams

Underage fuckers decided how a game should be run and proposing arbitrary rules where they aren't necessary. Stall is god and considered "skillful" to them. The userbase and people associated with smogon generally have inflated egos about an imaginary format that doesn't matter for anyone that actually plays on a cart. Or matter in general.

>>30629404
>being this mad at a competitive format no one's forcing you to play

>>30627760

Fpbp

>>30629404
Where did uncle Smogon touch you, anon?

>>30629254
I know about the 6 Darkrai thing personally as well since my brother did just that in Pokemon Revolution. And I am assuming Dark Void was exactly the reason why it is getting the nerf it is now in gen 7, yes? I agree with you anon concerning the bp Smeargle but wouldn't you agree that dragging a Haze/Psych Up user into your wasn't all too much like when Magnezone was dragged into OU for just, and only just Skarmory? You would hardly consider this unless it weren't the status quo, but with Smogon clenching on to SO MANY grandpa clauses it's not all too surprising that many don't.

And I remember being on a million threads about why exactly moves like Minimize were banned as well, they will go to any mental gymnastics possible to avoid putting something like Faint Attack on their precious Pokemon's moveset or it have No Guard instead.

>>30629330
Baton Pass is a fundamentally broken strat in 6v6. If you actually got high enough on ladder to be around for that 6 baton pass Espeon team you'd know that. The only counter to it is Perish Song, which is narrowly distributed and 99% of the pokemon that get it are shitmons or legendaries.

They still haven't updated their homepage with the new logo.

>>30629488
and even then, there's plenty of ways to modify a 6'mon team to deal with perish song

against most people it'd be as simple as including a mr mime

>>30629529
Unless its Mega Gengar, right?

>>30629442
>>30629464
The OP asked what went wrong. I just stated facts about what went wrong and why it's shit. I'm sorry the truth hurts your underage brains and that you can't give evidence to the contrary.

>>30629381
nice counterpoint, try making a post actually worth reading next time

>>30629488
you may well be right, but that was an overpowered strat that emerged in a metagame that had already been completely gimped by previous bans so it's still only theoretical

>>30629330
I more blame the power creep than anything. Gen 6 Megas were both the best and worst thing to come out of it. It fixed some pokemon but made others rediculously overpowered.

Then we have shit like Smeargle being able to utilize moves it has no business using like Dark Void (which was thankfully restricted but at a price RIP) and Geomancy. Also who fucking greenlighted Aegislash's ability with King's Shield's stupid add effect? I love the concept, but you can't just create a Tank and a Monster without restrictions. That's why they gave Slaking Truant and Regigigas Slow Start.

I thought Gen 7 was good for the most part, Wishiwashi is a monster with a drawback and a lot of pokemon are "balanced" even if the overall speed is below average. But then they released Pheromosa. Did GameFreak forget how important being faster is with an overwhelming attack stat? Yes it has absolutely no defenses, but it doesn't matter if it could outspeed and OHKO everything that threatens it.

It hurts because once bank is released, a lot of the new pokemon are going to be obsolete.

>>30629541
baton pass can still switch out
baton pass at that point likely has a bunch of speed boosts
mr mime has soundproof preventing it from being perish songed

>>30629599
>I just stated facts about what went wrong
Did you mean to reply to a different post? There aren't any facts in that reply chain.

>>30629481

You would have to have a Haze user that can survive a Swords Dance-boosted coverage move and also outspeed any of the common OU/Ubers heavy hitters at +1, which is a tall order. >Just Sash it, well what about rocks or Spikes, which are ubiquitous now?

Faint Attack, Swift, Aero-Ass, etc. pretty much need a Technician boost to be usable and even then only receive STAB so as to be useful on two mons and EVEN THEN lack the damage output so any Minimize user will just fuck your shit up anyway when you fail to significantly damage them.

Smogon isn't banning stuff for no reason, it's because if they allowed all this shit you would have even less freedom because you would have to deal with even more broken cookie-cutter brainless bullshit teams that require even less skill than whatever is the top tier core of this generation, and to deal with this you would have to stack your team with even more required anti-meta shit so in the end you would be free to have maybe two pokemon you actually want to use on your team.

You said "well yeah 6 Dark Voiding Darkrais is gay but that's why they nerfed Dark Void!" Yeah, after three generations. So if Game Fuck never got off their ass and nerfed it you would be at the mercy of that "strategy" forever. And that's lame.

You are advocating that Smogon AG be what everyone plays, and AG is dumb as hell.

>>30629606
baton pass is the only viable strategy in the AG tier, which does not have clauses other than disallowing strategies that cause infinite battles

They've made some bad choices, but they're still the primary source for anyone that doesn't like doubles. Tiers make some of my favorite Pokemon useful, it's nice.

>>30629669
I'm arguing for a more responsible house clean up, this includes a re-do of their voting system and and re-examination of the requirements to vote on bans/clauses. Smogon unethically bans, warns and deletes FAR too many posts in their discussions that merely only disagree with whoever's most popular arguement is. It's anyone's guess why Booboo keys was suspected for Ubers yet Rotom-Wash/Garchomp wasn't. Even funnier they decided to keep Kyurem-B in OU but Deoxys-D in Uber.

>>30629840

That's going to happen in every community regardless of who's in charge unless everybody was a rankless anon 4chinz style which comes with its own problems. There will always be namefagging, e-peen, favoritism, etc.

If you want things to change you can go infiltrate Smogon, climb their ladder, become a mod, and unfuck it from the inside. Until then it's the best we've got.

>>30629840
If you think Rotom-Wash, Garchomp, and Kyurem-B are banworthy, then I don't know what to tell you.

>>30629945
Banworthy because they are on the vast majority of teams? I thought tiers were usage based with the notable exception of Uber? And just what made Genesect, Deoxys-D and Mega-Mawile Uber worthy?

>>30630038

People will always bandwagon on the dumb strong shit. By banning Rotom-W you would change the meta but people would just find a new OU pivot and you would have to continuously ban down until there's no difference between OU and UU, or until someone says "stop." And who's going to say "stop?" You? What gives you that authority.

Then suddenly you're the Smogon.

>>30630038
They're automatically banned if they exceed a certain usage percentage. If it's thought to be a problem, they have a method for people to participate in a ladder with Pokemon banned and decide if it's better. They can vote once they reach a certain score. This is obviously flawed in that people may be biased, but it's a rather fair system.

>>30630038
>260 base attack
I don't know anon. Seriously though, Mawile is an exception because it's either broken in OU or shit in Uber with no middle ground.

>>30627753
>What went wrong?

Grown ass adults putting way too much time and energy into developing arbitrary rules for a children's game about bug collecting and dog fighting?

>>30630128
Personally, I'd have them continually ban and unban throughout the meta like what they're doing now. Except being less picky who they unban, one final note they get around banning by usage with Black List tiers, which are no different in function than just putting them in OU or UU with the only difference being they thr gen's new Pokemon so they beat out last gen's meta and are automatically suspected.

>>30630248

But it's not broken in OU. You can't just mindlessly chuck M-Mawile in and win.

>>30630038
5 | Rotom-Wash | 17.46662%
8 | Garchomp | 15.92013%
23 | Kyurem-Black | 7.80092%
These are the most recent statistics for gen 6 OU btw. Now let's look at gen 7 OU.
17 | Garchomp | 9.40255%
33 | Rotom-Wash | 6.43566%
69 | Kyurem-Black | 1.69567%
I don't think you know what "used on the vast majority of teams" mean.

>>30627781
So you're blaming people for overusing Pokemon they found strong? Or are you implying that omgon forced them to use those things?

>>30630403
You can't?

>>30630424
>>30630038
What's wrong? Not gonna reply? Have I utterly btfo you?

>>30630704
I honestly forgot what treshhold for suspect based off usage was. Rotom wash is still in nearly 1 out of 5 teams, even then I am wondering if those statistics include only its usage high in the ladder? I imagine less teams use Rotom-Wash and Garchomp at the 1000-1200 ladder who hardly pick optimum teams who may or may not also make the bigger portion of the statistic.

15-17 percent is still pretty big anon in the higher tiers I would expect you to find them more ubiquitous

>>30630898
There not even the most used pokemon in their tiers. Hell, gen 7 Kyurem-B isn't even OU by usage anymore. I'm just wondering why you singled out those 3 specifically.

>>30630952
Kyurem-B I singled out because it's hardly used even in OU because it sucks, sounds a lot like Deoxys-D in OU, right? Rotom-Wash and Garchomp are really damn overused, I frankly believe even now it warrents SOME discussion if they and Skarmory are still overcentralizing.

>>30631036
>Kyurem-B I singled out because it's hardly used even in OU because it sucks, sounds a lot like Deoxys-D in OU, right?
Literally what? You said "Even funnier they decided to keep Kyurem-B in OU but Deoxys-D in Uber." and then "Banworthy because they are on the vast majority of teams?". What point are you even trying to make? Ang again, how can Rotom-Wash and Garchomp be overcentralising if they're not even the most used pokemon in their tier? Do you think the most used pokemon is by definition overcentralising? Why don't we just ban the best pokemon in each tier? Oh wait, that's retarded.

File: Maximum Spook.jpg (80KB, 932x237px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 932x237px

How is it looking familia?

>>30631260

>>30631260
I fucked up, wrong thread.

>>30627753
It's not so much Smogon's fault as it is the past few generations of Pokemon having a terrible fucking power creep.

>>30631245
That's exactly my point anon? I agree that they should ban only because they get used too often, was Deoxys-D banned because it was used too much? No it wasn't. It was banned because it was suspected at the exact same time with Deoxys-S. You know the reason why most people voted for Deoxys-D to get banned? It wasn't because it was overused, it was banned because people's Garchomp couldn't break it and they didn't want to stuff another "check" because that would make Deoxys-D "too over centralizing". It's fucking retarded. A hardly used Pokemon banned from OU because they didn't like it. This single example shows how flawed any method other than usage is. And let me reiterate, the usage statistics you used were in general and not high tier. How many times has a meta shifted before it matured? And how many sub-1200 Karenfag shitters where in that statistic anyway? There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

>>30631415
this

Pokemon has become an uncompetitive clusterfuck by its sheer nature. too many pokemon, many of them far too good at what they do.

Smogon ends up looking retarded because the games themselves have become retarded.

Fucking stall
>gen 8 releases
>pokemon that completely fucks up stall releases
>people stop stalling
>pokemon is fun yet again
>10 minutes later
>banned to ubers
>pokemon is now not fun

>>30631500
Actually I was using statistics for 1695 and above. And you got any usage stats on Deoxys-D? From the sound of it in some discussion threads I read, Deoxys-D and -S were often unbanned at the start of a new gen, only to prove too centralising and get banned again.

Gen VI

>>30627753
Gen 5 Weather Wars.

>>30631608
And I said 15-17 percent is still very common anon, it has less usage now because people want to use other pokemon. How long did it take for Aegislash to replace Greninja on most teams for usage last Gen? I will grant you that I honestly loved Gen 6's Smogon than VGC because I was sick to death of Mega-Kanga but it hardly excuses Aegislash and Deoxys-D Suspect tests and never, ever Talonflame getting a suspect test because they felt stone pebbles was enough

>>30631570
It took GF 7 gens for a definitive answer to setup sweepers, don't expect a pokemon that fucks up stalls in the near future.

>>30631538
It started with the Cancer Genies and then got gradually worse from there. We're now at the point where OU may as well be renamed to "Diet Ubers." It's pretty much just Legendaries and Megas: The Tier now, and we have nobody but GF to blame for it. It's not Smogon's job to ban every legendary, it's GF's job to make nonlegendaries that are actually worth using.

>>30627753
They murdered baton pass teams. I'm still a bit salty over the shit they did in gen 8, I get that it was early meta, but literally all my teams los tparts when the meta went stable.

>>30627753
The fact that legendaries are aloud

>>30631935

My team was utterly annihilated when they banned Wobbuffet.

>>30631939
That's GF's fault for not doing anything to address the power creep, not Smogon's.

>>30631935
What's gen 8's meta like, future Anon? Is Mega Flygon better than Garchomp?

we should make /vp/ tiers

Waifumons go to OU.

I think Smogon is ultimately a good thing, in that it tries to give a guiding hand to make enjoyable battles, but the last few generations have been complete fuck ups for them.

Some of this isn't their fault. Power Creep has been incredibly intense and it's hard to work around it. However, ever since Gen 4, their approach has been outright terrible. The Garchomp ban took way too long, and then they empowered a small group of players to make most of the tiering decisions for everyone -- and it still continues to this day.

This is a problem because the councils put their playstyles above the healthiness of the tier. Drizzle was completely busted in Gen 5, but because the council liked Rain as a playstyle, they went out of their way to suspect everything that was good in rain instead of cutting off the source. Then there was Scald, which they completely ignored because if they ever did suspect it, it would open the gates for people to call for Stealth Rock to be banned, and they can't ever have their precious hazards ever thought of being broken.

The culture over there gives off the impression that if you're not badged, your opinion isn't worth considering. It's cringeworthy to see badged members spew out bullshit and watch the other members eat it all up.

>>30627887
?

>>30627753
They put Aegislash in Ubers and Diggersby in BL even though Diggersby is a better pokemon

>>30632036
Even more power creep and even more legendaries dominating OU.

>>30632077
wat
If Diggersby is BL, then by definition it's not good enough for OU. If it's not good enough for OU, then it's not good enough for Ubers.

>>30627753
It exists.

Smogonshitters need to unban Reshiram and Rayquaza from Ubers, former is hardly better than Charizard and the latter is just Salamence on steroids which is a UUmon

>>30632116
>then by definition it's not good enough for OU
But that's wrong you fucking retard
BL means it's too good for UU and not used often in OU

>>30632212
YAY MORE LEGENDARIES!

>>30632230
Why are you allergic to legendaries you dumb fucktard? Go play UU or PU with
>muh bros

>>30632224
Exactly. If that pokemon is not used enough to make OU, then that means people in general just don't find it good enough. Whatever, this was clearly bait anyway.

>>30632212
ayy lmao

>>30627887
So... Can you top the ladder with the true best mons, since your laugh impliea they're not on the list?

Do it, or kys and let the grown ups talk

>>30628453
>vgc will always be the official competition
No shit sherlock, no one claims otherwise. Your point being?

>make fun of VGC for no diversity
>everyone in smogon justs uses the same teams anyways

kek

>>30633482
more diversity than vgc
sure you see koko lele and pelipper on a lot of teams but there's always some variation

>>30628912
>Maximum number of strategies
>Limits pokemon into tiers
>X pokemon is weak, so giving it the great y move would be unfair **clause clause**
Personally, I don't get these smogfags. I met a few one time, and they got pissed at my dragon dance haxorus for being "under tiered" and "basically worthless". They told me it would lose me the game.
Beat all three of them in a row in 3 on 3 flat singles. Let me bring my "shitmons" to fight your copy paste smogfag teams.
I'd rather play against 8 year olds with all legendaries, at least I don't know what to expect there.

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247KB, 539x500px

>tfw play Smogon singles AND VGC

>>30629330
Nah anon, you've got it backwards. It's not Smogon's fault it ended up like this, it's Gamefreak's. Their power creep and lack of balance shot up to absurd levels after gen 4.