Strawpoll: Is Smogon Garbage?

>>30598543
It's not perfect but it's a shitload better than VGC where the variation between teams is basically nonexistent

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>>30598605
>Cuba isn't perfect, but it's a shitload better than North Korea.
Shit argument.

>>30598543
It just offers a service and you are free to not use it, where is the problem?
You can play singles in your SM too, you know?

>>30598543
Whether or not you like smogon, everyone should agree that /vp/ would make a tier list that is at least 100 times worse. No one here is good at competitive.

>>30598755
>Implying battle spot isn't full of people copying smogon sets
They killed everything.

>>30598755
Some people exclusively play by Smogon rules. And it's absolute garbage. I can't use some Pokemon because some underage autists banned them for shitty reasons.

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Tier lists are great.

The guys behind Smogon are complete tools.

Can't have everything.

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>>30598810
>people aren't picking the absolute best setups in competitive games
>people aren't playing to win in competitive games

>>30598793
/thread

>>30598793
its like that ubers-bl tier thing that keeps popping up

>>30598543
theyve made some funny moves recently but its still pretty good

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>competitive pokemon

They're okay but I don't like how stubborn they are about "hurr we ban Pokemon and not broken elements of a Pokemon" when they've gone back on that several times

>>30598835
This

>>30598977
Give me another multiplayer turn-based game with as many fun move/skill combos then please

>>30598874
>Implying smogon's setups are the best for battle spot
You can't be this retarded, they ban things battle spot doesn't, and players don't even think about this when copying sets.

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>>30598646

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>>30598835
>ban lots of legit bullshit
>lol sneaky stones are okay tho

>>30599133
if Smogon had a tournament, it'd probably have been the same with different Pokemon.

>>30599171
That's not smogon's fault. That's GameFreak's love for power creep.

>>30599171
Nah half would be stall the other half sweeping teams

>>30599147
>sleep clause is STILL a thing
WHY? Sleep is shit.
>shit accuracy
>Pokemon who get compound eyes are slow
>Smeargle Dark Void nerfed.

The correct answer is "no but yes".
No because most (though not all) of their decisions so far have been sound and consistent with their policy, which isn't all that bad.
Yes because Pokemon is a fundamentally uncompetitive shithole of a game whose atrocious RNG saps all the fun away and Smogon refuses to directly tamper with it to fix this flaw and possibly making a few balancing inputs. I know they only want to simulate the cart, but what they're simulating is really flawed despite having potential to be an actually engaging and deep turn based strategy.

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>>30598823
>I can't use some Pokemon because some underage autists banned them for shitty reasons.
>I can't
Yes you can, just don't play with people using smogon rules or people who can't make exceptions that smogon won't (Blaze Blaziken.)

Most of the ubers people complain getting banned about are super unfun to face anyway because they just solo teams by themselves.

>>30599034
It's to avoid a precedent. There's no singular broken element to a pokemon, and realistically you could balance most pokemon by not permitting them to use a single ability, move, item, etc.

It's retarded in a lot of other situations, though.
>the discussion on baton pass going on in the PR forum
>obvious solution is just ban speed passing, or stat passing as a whole if that somehow becomes a problem and preserve drypassing that dozens of things can do
>"no we don't do that it's a precedent it's really complex etc. etc."
>DrizzleSwim, the existing BP clause, GSC PerishTrap, the new ubers Sleep+Shadow Tag clause, etc.
>mfw they just have PTSD from the full BP chains and want the move gone out of spite
>mfw stat and speed passing aren't even using in tournaments anymore anyway and it's a complete non-issue

>>30599215
depending on the rulesets maybe, i dont think heavy stall does too well in doubles

>>30599240
i'll tell you this, i actually lost a match earlier today because a darkrai's dark void wiped my first two pokemon clean even though it hits at 50% accuracy

also wide guard doesnt block dark void, that was fun to learn

>>30599133
2013 and 2014 were both pretty good and the arguments that VGC have more diversity than Smogon were somewhat legitimate. Megamom and Primals were a mistake.

>>30598543
I'll never understand why some people seem to hate the tier system. If you want to play matches with your shitmon bros, smogon is the only way to do that.

>>30599421
Tiers are literally made for karenfags but some are just in denial that their bro isn't super awesome.

What people don't understand is that VGC's list is meant for DOUBLES. NOT SINGLES. There is no official Singles list. Which is why Smogshit stepped up.

And they're screwing it up. They're centralizing the metagame, Suspect tests are shit because people are just going to autistically ban anything and everything they find annoying.

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>>30598823
No faggot
Im telling you to stop using smogon if you dont like their rules.
Like you probably would have done with 4chan if you didn't like them.

You can leave without having to shit on it

>>30599421
I don't hate the tier system. It's great. I just hate Smogon's tier system and rules. Why are there so many BL? Why is Baton Pass banned? Why is Brightpowder banned? Why is Swagger banned?

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>Community that has spent the past 10+ years constantly battling, testing, and voting in order to create a fine-tuned meta that does its best to balance an inherently imbalanced, luck-based game
>"uhh i don't like it because they banned something I like/they called my bro shit, so lets start our OWN meta guys, right here, right now!"
You know how many times /vp/ has attempted to make their own
"meta" in the past?
You know how many times it succeeded?

Does anyone have the image going around at the moment of the current pokemon being used for competitive, my friend just started playing pokemon and doesnt belive me that its the same 10 pokemon if that.

>>30599472
I want a better tier system. There IS NO OTHER TIER SYSTEM TO USE. They have a monopoly on the Pokemon meta.

>>30599133
>>30599497
Like this one but for SM

>>30599171
Their last tourney finals two weeks ago was Medicham, Lando, Latios, Suicune, Bisharp, Mew vs Manectric, T-tar, Amoongus, Keldeo, Lando, Jirachi.

>>30599521
Play battle spot

>>30599455
A ban to OU doesnt mean jack shit, you can still use that on UBERS and AG.
>B-but muh bro M-Lucario and Ledian must always be together
There are
I
E
R
S

>>30599549
>one tournament
Doesn't say much,

>>30599558
But then they're outclassed in Ubers, Jobberfrog was relegated to throwing Spikes out.

>>30599492
>Why are there so many BL?
its just a list of pokemon from certain tiers that have low enough usage to drop down one but theyre too powerful to drop. i guess theres so many now because theres over 800 pokemon

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>>30599521
So make your own.

>>30599492
>Why are there so many BL?
Because power creep is booting a bunch of strong stuff from OU and into UU
>why is BP banned
It's not, just restricted, and it's because some turbonerd made a borderline invincible team that beat every team that wasn't carrying a handful of pokemon and low-distribution moves
>Brightpowder
It's not banned
>Swagger
Because Prankster Swagger spam was annoying and didn't have any decent counterplay.

>>30599492
>BL
BL is just the banlist of the tier below it, it just means those Pokemon are too strong for said tier, but don't have the usage rates to be considered a higher tier.
>Why is Baton Pass banned?
It's not banned, just restricted to an extent. You could create impenetrable BP pass teams the way it was before.
>Why is Brightpowder banned?
It's not. Evasion boosting moves are banned, items and abilities aren't.
>Why is Swagger banned?
Extremely frustrating move with no reliable way to handle. Paired with Prankster and Foul Play, it's nothing but dice rolls.

>>30599492
Read the discussions on their site
>>30599521
Play your with your phisical copy against others online and no one will cry if you use Aegislash

>>30599609
>>30599635
>>30599664
t.Smogautists

>>30599492
>Why are there so many BL?
Byproduct of the tiers' composition. Some mons are a little weaker than a tier's prime pick but strong enough to be overpowered in a lower tier and therefore banned from there. Others may actually fill a useful niche in a tier above its banlist, but be awkward to use and get rarely played.
>Why is Baton Pass banned?
It's not even though it should for consistency and simplicity, just heavily limited because passing boosts is inherently overpowered in 6v6 as decentralised and crowded as in the last few gens.
>Why is Brightpowder banned?
It's not even though it should because it's only ever used to hax people and has no legitimate use outside of that.
>Why is Swagger banned?
Because it's a pure 50/50 RNG coinflip whose positive results are highly overpowered and has no non-RNG element to it. It was for what purpose? unbanned in Gen 7 following Prankster and Confusion nerfs anyway.
>>30599695
t.noarguments

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>>30599695
Are you mad that nobody follows your irrelevant format?

>>30599816
If Swagger is banned, then why isn't Serene Grace Jirachi and Togekiss banned?

INCONSISTENCY

Checkmate, Smogautists.

>>30599843
>implying he plays competitive at all.

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>>30599862
Swagger isn't banned in Gen 7.

>>30599862
Its because they are biased as fuck as to what they ban.
>I don't like it so I'll vote against it

>>30599862
Because Foul Play. Getting flinched sucks but eventually you can break free and attack back. If you hit yourself once while confused Foul Play can easily OHKO or 2HKO you.

>>30599568
The major tourney before that one was Lando, Scizor, Latios, Rotom-W, Tornadus, Nidoking vs Diancie, Amoongus, Starmie, Magnezone, Lando, Dragonite.

>>30599970
>implying switching isn't allowed
Or did Smogon ban that too?
I wouldn't be surprised. TOO MUCH RANDOMNESS. DOES NOT COMPUTE. BAN BECAUSE IT'S UNPREDICTABLE!!!@@

>>30600013
>switch out
>your next Pokemon gets hit on the switch in, and then Swaggered next turn
Didn't think that through, did you?

>>30600013
>Just switch so it's another 50/50!
Yeah you know jack shit about competitive, nigger

>>30600013
>Player1 switched pokemon!
>Player1's pokemon was hurt by stealth rocks!
>Player2 used Swagger!
You're at the same position you were before, except now with rock damage. It's a continuous 50/50 mindgame, except that the Swagger player has the upperhand by spamming one move almost every pokemon can learn.

>>30599862
Jirachi was retarded in gens 4/5 and should've been banned in my opinion, but gen 6's general power creep and priority spam coupled with existence of numerous bulky Steel resists that can easily shrug off Iron Heads and Jirachi's own nerf (2 extra weaknesses) makes it a lot easier to handle, even if it still handles the battle's outcome to RNG in some situations.
If you're really losing games to Togekiss, consider gitting gud. Unless you're playing Stall, then suck it up or stop using this cancer archetype.

>>30600013
>Switch
>get hit by spikes
>get hit by incognito igneous
>New pokemon get priority paralyzed / confused
good plan

Not that this matters, since Swagger isn't banned anymore.

>>30599205
THIS. Every time I see some faggot post about VGC or Smogon teams "all being the same" I roll my eyes because of course people are going to use the most powerful shit that they can to win. If GF balanced shit well, we'd see tons of variety

I disagree with a few of there bans, mostly aegislash and the baton pass shit. I also think they unfairly favor stall as a playstyle. Face it, there is literally no better 6v6 singles ruleset.

>Tiers so you can use shitmons
>Logical clauses like sleep and evasion
That said, 6v6 singles isn't great because it takes so long, especially vs stall.

>B-but it's not the real rules
There are no official 6v6 rules you faggot

you guys all have no idea what you're talking about

Karenfags Vs. Smogonfags tourney on showdown fucking when?

>>30600222
I want this. Of course Karenfags would all be complaining about Smogon whenever they lose though

>>30599147
Anyone who wants to ban Stealth rock is actually retarded (in 6v6 singles)
>Battles already take much longer than 3v3 or doubles
>If hazards didn't exist there would be no reason not to switch to a favourable matchup, especially if you're a stall team
>Battle would just be nonstop switching
The reason hazards are so metagame defining and over centralising is because they are necessary.

>>30599862
Togekiss isn't even OU. Serene Grace is really not that OP.

>>30600269
if swapping were more usable, hyper offense vs stall would be more viable. i don't think it favors stall moreso than offense, though balance might be trickier

>>30600261
But after >we prove that they suck dick at competitive we can finally end (yeah sure) this shitty argument

>>30600222
All karens would get dropped round 1

>>30600269
Of course they are necessary. But Stealth Rock plays favorites. Certain Pokemon get punished more than others for absofuckinglutely no reason.

If Spikes weren't garbage, we wouldn't have needed Stealth Rock.

>>30600222
But if my favorite Pokemon are all competitively viable what side do I join?

>>30600651
if you're using them BECAUSE they're your favorite, karen. if you're using them because they're viable, smogon.

>/vp/ tier list
>Rocks and anything enabling stall banned out of asspain
>Moody roaming free
>still reach the top easily because everyone will use trash like Shuckle and Ninjask

lol

>>30600651
If you don´t spout >le smogon loves stall, use your bros in a viable way and play to win without complaining that others only use strong mons; you qualify as smogonfag.

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>>30600773
not when deoxys-n, reshiram and bug arceus stop you

>>30600774
Shit guess I'm a smogonfag

>>30598543
Smogon and VGC are both a fucking mess. Pokemon will never be anything close to balanced. While balance itself does not truly exist Pokemon will continue to always be more toward the opposite of balance. VGC at least has the common idea that there will always be bullshit no matter what you play because thats pokemon and nothing will change that no matter what you ban but VGC is an agonizing mess of its own dimension. Smogon on the otherhand does at least try to salavage and struggle to balance the unbalanced at that is commendable and I do see some stress being involved in the decisions made. That said Smogon are fucking morons and for every decent decisions like MegaMum banning and taking out evasion(god yes) everything else they do is utter shite with a few good choices here and there and again you cant balance Pokemon so its makes their respectable efforts more futile. Smogonfags are not horrible players even if the religious ones are Verlisfy levels of cancer. That said at least they dont have Verlisfy like VGC does. You can always fall back on using Verlisify as an insult to VGCfags and that'll hit them hard as well as have something to agree on since we can all agree, VGC, or Smogon, that Verlisfy is pure cancer that would offend even the darker corners of the furfag communities.
Overall you should all play what you feel or play neither or both. Honestly I cant find my place in either. I am a bit more toward VGC but I cant call myself a VGC player. Its annoying to be in the middle ground. In the last couple of years I have remained unable to decide where I belong just breeding pokemon I like and testing competitive mons and sets mostly with friends. Hope you Anons find your place in Pokemon battling better than me.

>>30601078
verlisiwho?

>>30601521
Either a bad troll or one of the people to not have heard of Verlisify. If the former then considered yourself a gifted individual.

>>30601078
Furfag here, Verlisify should yiff in hell.

>>30601875
Thank you.

>>30600261
>beat a guy on showdown who is using shitmons
>he continues to message me for over an hour begging for a rematch because i was using a super overpowered mon
>it was xurkitree

>>30599530
Anyone?

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>>30605655
This one?