.

this triggers the greninja

Will ashnime fags ever recover? Has a single retarded fanbase been this thoroughly BTFO before?

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>>30538170
>Ash-Greninja still made it into the games
You didn't Burasto hard enough...

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This is literally the only reason I love Zard. I had a blast seeing Ashfags get BTFO. The burn he left was the best.

>>30539201
would his own charizard have won?

>>30539246
Not a chance

>>30539246
Considering he doesn't have a Mega, and Alan had much more experience, no. Alan's Zard was on a level beyond Ash's Pikachu.
Still wouldn't have jobbed so hard though.

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>>30539201
It was so hard it made all ash greninjas after him infertile by the way

>>30539308
It would have jobbed to the first flamethrower.

>>30539246
Not without it's own mega, and even then it would probably have been written like the Dragonite battle, with zard putting up a great fight and having Pikachu finish the job.

>>30539365
Why didn't Ash get a Mega anyways? In Sinnoh he caught some throwaway Gligar to show off the Gliscor evolution so it's not like he's limited to Gen 6 only.

>>30539354
Wouldn't be so sure. It is Ash's most experienced Pokemon, next to Pikachu. Unlike most of Ash's Pokemon that get boxed for all eternity, this one is training day in and day out.

>>30539354
Godchu seems to more or less be equal to or slightly above base Alainzard, based on the performance a half dead Pikachu put up against it in the finals. Charizard is also a bit below Pikachu, but not by a lot. Alain's is still probably stronger by a bit in base, and Ash's would presumably be able to put up a good fight, especially if it got a Mega stone.

>>30539488
>nostalgiashitters actually believe this

Ffs, Sceptile was in more episodes than it and Ash-greninja has fought and won against opponents much stronger than Charizard has ever fought. It would go down like a fucking fly just like Trevor's Mega Charizard Y. Charizard lost to a fucking Dusknoir lmao and that was in its last real battle.

>>30539624
writers just didn't want ash to win and that's pretty much the start and end of it.

>>30539686
can someone post the chart of ash pokemon wins?

>>30539716
The one where Goodra had a 100% win rate at the time because it was only in like two battles?

>>30539624
Ash's Charizard barely won against a fucking Articuno. Even a newly evolved Noivern outmatched a Zapdos. Alan's Charizard battles equal with high tier legendaries like Zygarde, OHKO elite 4s and fights almost evenly with Champions. Ash's Charizard has literally no chance, much less than Ash-greninja. Don't let nostalgia make you think Ash's Charizard is some top tier mon.

>>30539744
yeah, i wanna see it again.

>>30539686
You're undermining it by a lot, anon. Although it's lost a lot of battles, but so has Greninja or Sceptile. Greninja, even in his Ash-Greninja form, has lost more important battles than it has won.
While I will agree that Sceptile is strong too, Charizard is definitely stronger.

>>30539716
Charizard is in the 60%. Ash's strongest that has fought in many battles are Infernape and Greninja in +80%

>>30539796
>implying it would have beaten the zapdos in an actual fight
>implying it didn't just knock it down
>comparing a wild shitmon that got captured by fucking team rocket to an Articuno under the command of a trainer that had Water Pulse

>>30539796
>Even a newly evolved Noivern outmatched a Zapdos
Oh fuck off. It got one hit in and that was by surprise. That's not outmatching anything. Hate Zard all you want, at least don't be a faggot about it.

>>30539836
>>30539744
>>30539716
Just win percentage doesn't mean much, you can't really take into account the caliber of an opponent. I.e, Snorlax is clearly one of his stronger mons, but it's almost never used as the team anchor, and so has to be KO'd eventually in full battles for drama.

>>30539818
>Ash passing out or not being able to control the battle bond is losing on greninja's part

Mega Charizard X in the finals and Avalugg was literally the only time Ash-greninja lost fair and square.

>>30539872
>Faster than zapdos
>outsmarts it
>zapdos is unable to hit it
>noivern get a clean shot and i falls like a chicken

Yes, that's being outmatched you retard

>>30539881
oh god i forgot about snorlax
ash seriously handicaps himself with that "new region new pokemon" bullshit, but ofc that's because the show has to stay fresh for the next batch of kids etc.
long term pokemon origins when?

>>30539841
It was a wild fucking Articuno that was Noland's friend you retarded fuck. It had never battled under Noland's command before. It was as wild as Zapdos but Charizard had a type advantage.

>>30539933
>>Faster than zapdos
It was faster than Alan's mons too. That turned out fine.

>>outsmarts it
It got one hit in, and by surprise. That wouldn't work again.

>>zapdos is unable to hit it
>>noivern get a clean shot and i falls like a chicken
Because the fucking battle ended there. Zapdos wasn't even scratched after the battle. It just flew away like nothing happened.

>>30539796
>Alan's Charizard battles equal with high tier legendaries like Zygarde

This is just plain wrong. That Zygarde recovered from that hit like fucking nothing, and that's not even mentioning the fact that Primal Groudon outright almost killed Niggerzard. Stop being a fanboy, faggot.

Why do people even discuss this shit? Ash-greninja is Ash strongest pokemon by a fucking landslide.

>>30540007
>Primal Groudon outright almost killed Niggerzard
Didn't even faint.

>>30540040
Because Ash-Greninja almost never won. It hyped shit up, and jobbed. Every fucking time.

>>30540005
>literally used the field to its advantage while Zapdos wasn't able to keep up and got hit with one of the strongest moves and shoved into a cliffside

>i-it didn't outmatch it

>>30539950
Amusingly, Snorlax is still on par with Ash's other region aces despite never doing anything but sleeping.

>>30539975
Doesn't change the fact that an experienced trainer was actively giving it commands you mong, and it couldn't have learned Steel Wing and Water Pulse by itself. Just because he never fought with it doesn't mean it never picked up anything from Noland.

Speaking of Articuno, how come we didn't see one in Kalos when both Moltres and Zapdos got an episode?

>>30540086
Are you fucking retarded? You are fucking retarded, aren't you?
Getting in one hit doesn't mean shit. Zapdos wasn't expecting that one, so it took it. The same shit never works twice.

Fuck, even fucking genwunners aren't this retarded. Not even gonna bother anymore. Go jerk off to the shit bat that helped Ash win the Kalos League.

>>30540077
Because Ash passing out isn't losing. Ash-greninja had the biggest powerlevel out of any pokemon. Just being able to keep up with a Champion's Mega Ace and a shit tone of other mega evolutions and making literally the guy that OHKO elite4s rock hard because Ash-greninja is the only pokemon powerful enough to give it him a thrilling fight. Compare this to shit like Infernape that got OHKO by elite 4 Flint's Infernape's mach punch, Charizard jobbing to a fucking Dusknoir and having its greatest battle be against the weakest legendary of them all.

>>30540234
To be fair, the Sinnoh Elites are portrayed as pretty strong, Aaron beat Cynthia's Garchomp and took her down to her last Pokemon.

Also Diantha clearly wasn't serious in that fight until it was too late and Ash Greninja put her on the defensive.

>>30540113
>couldn't have learned Steel Wing and Water Pulse by itself

Why do you use game logic in the anime you retarded fuck?

>>30540177
How fucking retarded are you? Anybody could see that Noivern fucking had it. Zapdos couldn't hit it or keep up with it. Noivern literally only needed to spam boomburst. It got one hit, it got fucking thrown into a cliffside screaming and falling before TR garbage happened. It literally only needed to hit it again while it was falling but Ash tried to make it to fuck off, not beat it.

Jesus fucking christ you're one retarded fucker.

>>30540049
It was literally stated he was at a point of near death

>>30540307
>Aaron beat Cynthia's Garchomp and took her down to her last Pokemon.

Why do you make shit up?

And Diantha literally says that if cut would have hit it would have been over.
"Diantha wasn't serious" is literally headcannon.

>>30540307
Sinnoh's elite are lacking for the simple fuck that mega evolution doesn't exist. Just look at siebold's Mega Blastoise. Powerlevel like that simply wasn't shown in DP.

>>30540372
Confirmed for not watching the show, fucking retard.

>>30540315
>ignoring the other point he made about Articuno actually having a high level trainer directing it

>>30540372
>spamming Shadow Ball and letting Greninja slowly pick itself up after getting knocked down is being serious

>>30538170
DORAGON

>>30540476
Garchomp was still going head to head with Genies without much of a problem, wasn't it? Not to mention Cynthia presumably had to beat Tobias to retain her title by BW. If Aaron came that close to beating her, it still places him and the other elites at around that level. A different animation style with bigger explosions doesn't directly correlate with powerlevel.

>>30540177
I've repeated the same thing enough times, and you still are being just as retarded as before.
Half of Ash's fucking team battled it, and the bat got in one fucking hit, that didn't do scratch Zapdos. And it only got that one hit because it surprised Zapdos with its speed. That's fucking it. There's no fucking way that would've worked twice.

What is your reason for assuming it would've won? The fact that it hit Zapdos once? That's what you're basing you whole fucking argument on?

Fuck this. You win. Arguing with a fucking underage is going to go nowhere.

>>30540501
>literally nothing said it was Cynthia's last pokemon

Don't make shit up

>ignoring the other point he made about Articuno actually having a high level trainer directing it

Still a low ass tier """"legendary"""" whose powerlevel was shown to be not even fucking close to shit like megas, much less other strong mons in the series.

>thinking I was talking Greninja vs Gardevoir and not Ash-greninja vs Mega Gardevoir.

Obvious as fuck that when Ash-greninja was in the battle Diantha became serious. I was purely talking about that battle. Shadow ball got sliced like fucking nothing but can be used instantly while moonblast has a charging time and still would do much difference sinca Ash-greninja sliced throw all the sphere moves. And it being able to overpower a very clear full power shadow ball with water shuriken just proves its powerlevel even more.

>>30540709
Wrong post? That guy was agreeing with you.

>>30540598
Genies BTFO Garchomp though. And we don't fucking know what happened to Tobias. What happened with Tobias is purely headcannon garbage and shouldn't be brought up.

>>30540755
Yeah, my bad. Meant to reply to >>30540315

/r/ing the gif from Battle Revolvution of the charizard switching into Rocks and getting OHKO

>>30540709
>literally the only shit hitting Zapdos before noivern got to play was a fucking fighting move.
>u-ur underage

Learn how to lose an argumentation instead of crying buzzwords. That's just pathetic.

>>30540741
Rewatch the episode, moron.

And aren't you the one trying to apply game mechanics to the anime now? You can't just arbitrarily state that it's that weak.

>>30540831
When did I apply game mechanics you retarded fuck?

And don't watch the fucking english dub.

>58 posts
>12 ips
You're all morons.

Also I could swear this guy who's butthurt over Ash's Zard has done this before, this mix of idiocy and typing style reminds me of an anon from old threads.

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>>30540823
>It hit Zapdos once guys! Noivern was the strongest!
That's your whole fucking argument and you're calling me pathetic.

>>30540955
That was not the argument you retarded fuck. It was an example of another time when an Ash's mon battled a legendary bird and that was newly fucking evolved and was able to keep up and outsmart it. Jesu fucking christ you're retarded.

>>30540955
I'm going to step in here.

>outspeeds it
>outsmarts it by using the rock formations around it
>zapdos couldn't hit it
>noivern could hit it

Outmatch =/= strongest you dumb fuck. Noivern outmatched it LIKE HIS ORIGINAL POST SAID. Doesn't necessarily mean it was stronger. Ffs Noivern literally only needed to hit it again while it was falling.

>>30541000
>was able to keep up and outsmart it
And that didn't fucking happen. Zapdos dodged all of its attacks, despite the speed advantage the bat had.
After Ash had used all his brainpower, he orderd it to hide behind a some rocks, and surprise attack Zapdos. That's literally all that happened. It's not keeping up with it if it took all that to hit it once.

>>30541130
I suggest you keep out of this. They're both pretty retarded. They're both making valid points, and they're both ignoring all of those points.

>>30541162
Read you retarded fuck >>30541130

>>30541215
One guy says as an example that even a newly evolved pokemon was able to take on a kanto birb like Articuno and it's clear as day that Noivern out matched it for the simple fact that Zapdos couldn't keep up or hit it while Noivern was able to. Then the retarded anon gets triggered by this and thinks outmatching literally only means being stronger and not a shit tone of other factors. That anon is simply the most retarded person in this thread without a doubt to the point were he spout buzzwords and say he lost and would fuck off but clearly didn't.

>>30541162
>dodged all of its attacks

But it fucking didn't. The last one hit and if Ash wanted he could just command another one while it fell. Noivern dodged all of its attacks and Zapdos wasn't able to keep track of it. Outmatching isn't about fucking powerlevel purely like >>30541374 says.

>>30540049
Jesus Christ the flame was disappearing because was diying out of perciple blades

>>30541130
My whole point is, you're making too many assumption that favor Noivern, while ignoring Zapdos' previous feats. Zapdos dodges everything thrown at it, it took a well thought out plan just to hit it once. You're now assuming it will get hit again, and not only that, it will faint in just one more hit.

>>30540049
If I get hit by a car and manage to stay awake as I'm bleeding out on the ground, did I put up a good fight against the car?

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>>30541508
>>30541561
Not sure what your point is. You said it nearly died, but it actually didn't even faint. It was still Mega Evolved when Alan found it. Siebold's Blastoise did more damage to it than that.

>>30541543
>too many assumption

Are you seriously the guy that is saying this? This is what happens on screen

>noivern uses the field to its advantage
>noivern use like two boomburst that zapdos dodges
>zapdos use like 3 thunderbolts that Noivern dodges
>noivern makes zapdos chase it between the rocks but its unable to keep up
>noivern is able to hit it with boomburst that is even stated it the anime to be a extremely powerful move
>it's thrown into a fucking cliff and falling down screaming

This is literally Noivern outmatching it. This is what happened. Assuming shit about what Zapdos could do is purely headcannom garbage.

>>30541674
It retained it's Mega form because it was concious, doesn't mean it wasn't dying.

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>>30541853
It was conscious after Siebold battle too, though. Mega Evolution wears off after a Pokemon has gotten enough damage that it can't fight anymore. If that didn't happen, it just means it didn't take enough damage. You really have no reason to assume it was dying.

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>>30541871
>>30541970
SEE THIS?
This is what this glorious topic was about. You fucking Noivernhaters and Noivernfags need to get out.

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REMINDER

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>>30542009

>>30541970
>when has destructo disc ever worked?

my sides

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>>30542008
I'm the one who made that post

I'm still fucking mad, and I fucking hate this thread.


at least Ash-Greninja is good ingame and in comp

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>>30542177
How does it feel to know that in a one-on-one fight, Charizard can still shit all over Greninja, since Greninja wouldn't even be able to Mega Evolve?

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>>30542241
>you will never have a zardbro (or zardgf)
Fuck.

>>30541970
I see my thread :3
The backlash from the league was the most fun I've had on /vp/ in a long time.

>>30541961
Yeah, you're right, I'll concede that at least.

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>>30542305
There's still hope, anon. Perfect A.I. and Virtual Reality can make any Pokemon real. And we'll be getting both, sooner or later.

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>>30542241
Pretty good, considering this -

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 227-269 (76.4 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 64-78 (21.5 - 26.2%) -- approx. 0.8% chance to 4HKO

Even if you dragon dance, your fat lizzard will die (^:

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>>30542815
Oh wow. Charizardfags got BTFO.

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>>30542815
How did you come to that conclusion, anon?

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 352-415 (123.5 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zard takes at least 2 hits to go down. Memefrog is dead with one.

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>>30542815

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>>30542955
Yes, BTFO off once again.

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>>30543010
>actually using Outrage
it's like you want to get fucked by literally any fairy. Who the fuck use OUTRAGE on Memezard X?

Jesus christ no wonder /vp/ is considered shit in comp

>>30543010
>using shit sets

i could do this too you know

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 309-367 (104 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

kek.

>>30543161
His point was that it one shot greninja
While greninja 2 hit ko with its strongest stab outside of hydro cannon

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>>30543161
No one actually uses Outrage, anon. Most good Zard X users don't even use any offensive build.
But the other anon went with Hydro Pump, which isn't a reliable move, so I answered in kind with a 120 BP move. Both of these are not useful moves.

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>>30543241
>>30543249

252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 295-348 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

more viable desu senpai, still one shot about 93.8% of the time.

memezard is just a meme.

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>>30543227
Try again.

252+ SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 261-308 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 289-342 (101.4 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

A bulky Zard can take a Hydro Canon, and STILL OHKO memeninja. Accept it anon. You can't win one-on-one.

>>30543347
B-but memezard can tank with maxed SpD and HP. That's a build just as viable as a Z-Move memeninja.

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Honestly, it's a pretty stupid argument. Both Greninja and Zard stand an equal chance if they know what the opponent is gonna use. Charizard has the benefit of Mega Evolution, and Greninja has Z-Move. It's a close call either way.

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>>30543354
Try again.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 201-237 (55.8 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


0 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Greninja: 213-252 (74.4 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja is faster, so it would tank one outrage and kill with another Hydro.

Give it up, Memezard.

even if you go for something retarded as 252attack 252 hp

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Greninja: 258-304 (90.2 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Ebin thread.

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Can we all just agree that Zard Y is the superior Mega? It comes out on top in all situations unless Greninja runs 185 BP Hydro Vortex, which isn't as viable.

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>>30543507
/thread


>>30543635
Oh god don't start this, they will go with retarded things like rock slide z-move or something

>>30543635
>Greninja used Rain Dance!
>Greninja hung on with it's Focus Sash!
>Greninja used Hydro Cannon!

>>30543853
I'm not giving up, jobninja. I can make up even more ridiculous builds.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 202-238 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Greninja: 258-304 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Now, 43% of times, Zard wins. Add in the chance of Hydro Pump missing, and the fact that you need to hit twice, Zard still has more chance of winning.
Give up, anon. I admit jobninja's edge was sharper than I expected, but it still won't be beat edgezard.

>>30543853
>0- SpA Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 290-344 (80.5 - 95.5%) in Rain -- guaranteed 2HKO

>4 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 344-406 (120.7 - 142.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30544056
Shit, meant to reply to >>30543585
Sorry about that.

>>30543507
No one is serious about this, anon. Just having fun with a ridiculous argument.

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While looking through movesets for Zard, I noticed it can learn two moves that can be used as Z-moves to raise all stats. Problem is, both are event-only moves.

>>30544056
But memezard, 64% both of the hydro pump will hit!

Still higher than 43%.

I'm afraid you can't win this, memezard.

>>30544075


252+ Atk Choice Band Greninja Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 404-476 (112.2 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
it's getting really out of control

What an autistic thread.
I love it.

>>30543853
Ima be honest my dude if your fucking greninja is running rain dance and focus sash you have more serious problems. Might as well run defensive support sharpedo

>>30544596
Nah dude cause charizard got baton paased a sub and iron defense

>>30541961
Are you a retard? It was literally stated that he was near dying, his tail fire was starting to extinguish for fuck's sake.

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>Ash didn't get Charizard-Y to fight the Charizard-X.
This shit writes itself and the writers still can't be fucked.

Charizard was the superior mon.

Charizard is the mary sue of pokemon along with Lucario, so no shit it won. Seems in the anime even regular Charizard is resistant to water types.

>>30539432
Gen V was an attempt to keep it unique but clearly failed, so they attempted to repeat the same shill of the respective Gen by being him a lot of good mons.

So far, it worked, but Alain took a dump on that with Pikachu taking a dump on him.

>>30547915
Fire types shrugging off water attacks is really cool though, like that Typhlosion that took a full force hydro pump and acted like nothing happened in the gold/silver/crystal special episodes.

>>30548085
That's just because kids love fire types and hate to think that they can lose to sissy water types, especially Charizard.

Poor Blastoise was supposed to be the check for it, but just about all it's ever done is job to Charizard.

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>>30547645
>It was literally stated
Not him, but you guys need to literally say where you're getting this from. Where is it in the episode?
>his tail fire was starting to extinguish for fuck's sake
The flame doesn't reflect only near-death/perfect condition, it signifies the Pokemon's health and mood. The fire going down a notch after zard was no longer in an emotional state as well as after it got its shit kicked in would be expected.

>>30538170
mfw seeing the sample of the new Lusamine and Wicke doujin

>>30542241
>>30542305
>>30542370
>Cross-over occurs where Alain meets Red
>Battle is intense but Alain defeats Red's Mega Charizard X.
>Red sends out Blastoise and proceeds to Mega Evolve it.
>Alain despairs at how is this possible
X+Y manga in background of when X literally used 5 Mega Evolutions almost killing himself.