VGC`17 General

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Current Showdown meta

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Have you accepted GACK as your new team core?

>Do you think the meta will change and introduce more diversity,
No fucking shit the meta will change

Every damn meta of every damn single thing in this fucking world changes and evolves

Smogon Singles evolves as time goes, VGC10/11/12/13/14/15 and even fucking 16 metas evolved and changed as time passed. Why would 17 be an exception?

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>>30509539
That's premier challenge 1 meta

This is premier challenge 2 meta

>>30509539
GACK = Gorechimp, Alolan-Marowak(?), Celesteela, Koko?

>>30509619
where was that PC?

>>30509539
>>30509619
>No Fini at all
J-Just wait for Worlds! She's gonna take everyone by surprise!

>>30509599
>Why would 17 be an exception?
because my mom says I can use whatever pokemon I want and I want to use the same pokemon all year

>>30509653
G = either Gyarados or Garchomp

>>30509659
Spain.

There was one in Chile too but I've not seen anything about it yet.

>>30509659
i don't know

>>30509452
>Everyone is disappointed at the static team compositions we have seen from the first 2 premier challenge events.
Only the shitters who don't even play VGC or competitive at all are sperging about this. I wish they all would just fucking die so we could talk about the game in peace and quiet.

>>30509539
Jabberwocky's team on the right. Does he actually bring ninetales in battle, and if so, what type of team would he be able to bring the ninetales against? Aurora veil is incredibly strong (I have fought it firsthand and it is very difficult to beat), plus ninetales has a strong blizzard and icy wind. He is truly a great pokemon, but what would counter him?

Anyone have a good Milotic spread?

>>30510392
I don't know what people are running on it, sorry anon. But if you want a good idea, test it out against tapu koko thunderbolt, garchomp EQ, celesteela heavy slam, and marowak shadow bone. Those are my first 4 to test out when I am making an EV spread for 17.

>>30509661
fini is cute

>>30511306
Fini is bad! BAD!

>>30509942
>What would counter him?
Celesteela

>>30511425
Doesn't stop it from getting the aurora veil up

>>30511480
Nearly nothing does considering how fast the fox is.

If stopping Aurora Veil is what you care about then pack Scizor for Bullet or Bruxish with Psychic Fang or whatever it's called to break the veil.

>>30511545
I don't see a way to win while trading hits under aurora veil, even with 1 pokemon down.

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bulky water types with calm mind sets were popular in the past, why does no one use fini?

>>30511571
I don't remember seeing much Calm Mind in VGC outside of Cresselia
Tapu Fini is okay, but Misty Terrain not boosting its moves puts it at a disadvantage compared with the other Tapus. It also prevents its own Scalds from getting burns, so if anything it's hindering itself. Plus a lot of things people run to counter the other tapus also counter fini, so it doesn't require a specific counter.

>>30511545
Taunt, fakeout, double targeting with faster mons.

It's not hard to stop aurora veil. I've never seen a Ninetails run mental herb.

>>30511566
You are overrating Ninetales importance and value it brings. 99% of time all it does is set screens and die leaving you in an advantageous 4 vs 3 situation despite the Aurora Veil being there. 5 turns aren't really that hard to stall either.

>>30511571
>In past
It's not the past anymore.

CM bulky water sets have never been big on doubles/vgc either. This ain't singles bub.

Fini is not popular because unlike all the other Tapus she doesn't bring anything unique to the table.

For example, all the other Tapus terrains give them free boost to electric/grass/psychic moves while Fini's terrain doesn't give her a boost at all. Furthermore, status aren't popular in this meta which makes Misty terrain biggest use not useful at all. Dragons? Mence practically does not exist right now and Garchomp barely uses DORAGON KUROU anymore.

>>30511571
Because her ability counters herself.

Give it to me straight doc

How's weather in this format? There's setters but pretty much no abusers.

>>30511736
Oh shit, really? What do Garchomps run these days?

Always ran the basic EQ/Rock Slide/Dragon Claw/Protect moveset with no problem.

>>30512012
252/252 Jolly

They've started to run Poison Jab over Rock Slide lately.

Yesterday someone ran one with Assault Vest and put Rock Slide in the Protect slot.

Garchomp never changes much. He's universal.

>>30509452
What's the fastest Pokemon that can reliably oneshot bamboo waifu?

>>30511736
>Garchomp barely uses DORAGON KUROU anymore.
>>30512012
It still uses the same old set occasionally with Poison Jab over Rock Slide, its just Chomp can no longer get away with sloppy playing and randomly throwing out moves.

It's still useful all round however, if there was an award for a design that is near timeless its Chomp. It's gimped in every possible way and it still manages to be good, now imagine how people felt in Gen 4 when it was almost a god.

>>30512124
>Was gonna post that imgur speed-tiers guide
>It got deleted
Fucking hell. Anyone saved the pictures I'm talking about?

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>>30512179

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>>30512179
>>30512208

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>>30512208
Let me assist you with those.

>>30511736
>You are overrating Ninetales importance and value it brings. 99% of time all it does is set screens and die leaving you in an advantageous 4 vs 3 situation despite the Aurora Veil being there. 5 turns aren't really that hard to stall either.
Speaking as someone who has actually been serious about building a Hail team he is completely right.

A-Tales is pretty hard to fit into any team and Aurora Veil is really fucking hard to get up despite what you think. You're constantly looking over your shoulder for any other auto weather setters. A Steel attack of any kind is a free kill on the thing no matter what. Also there is a lack of mons to use who don't mind taking Hail damage every turn.

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>>30512266

>>30512208
>>30512245
>>30512266
>>30512309
Thank you lads.

>>30512282
Tell us about your Hail experience. How bad did it go?

>>30509661
I run Fini anon. I live in buttfuck nowhere and can't attend vgc events, and am probably shit too so it doesn't help much. I think Fini works.

>>30512484
>I think Fini works.
Explain. How are you running her, why are you running her, with who else are you running her?

In tournaments what do the judges do when they manually check for hacks?

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>>30509539
>Whimsicott
what's the strategy with it?

>>30512572
We look at your Pokémon.
Most of it is checking moves are possible, a lot of us have a good idea of what stats should be at different levels for different Pokémon, as well as caught locations and stuff. Beyond moves and ability availability, the biggest thing we pick up on is dumb stuff like legendaries being caught in the wrong location or Pokémon evolving at high levels still being level 50.

>>30512518
I lied. Fini probably doesn't do anything for me.

http://pastebin.com/09mgepka
Realistically it would make more sense to run Koko or Lele. Fini and Bulu both gimp either ground or dragon.

>>30512518
Fini only really works if you run her with Metagross and use swagstrats. It's niche and not really that good but it's definitely viable.

>>30512645
use tailwind.

fast encore to delete pokemon that used protect last turn

Just two questions, patching up my prospective team.

Does Tapu Lele run HP? If so, what's best? Fire?

And nature for Celesteela? I've heard Relaxed/Impish, I unfortunately have Adamant/Modest. Lmk

>>30512855
I ran that for awhile and never really had an opportunity to swagger. I always felt like I was better off using some other move.

>>30512740
Ahh ok thanks for the insight

>>30509535
>>30509539
>>30509619
How do these guys not lose to weirdo strats like setup openings?

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I've been studying replays of top ladder players on Showdown and I have to ask since the top ladder teams look a lot more diverse than >>30509539
and >>30509619 's wonderful world of GACK, what makes Showdown much more diverse at top play? Are the teams hidden gems that will help the meta evolve or is the showdown ladder not even trying?

It's especially weird since I managed to spot 2 Golisopods in a small sample of the top teams I could find.

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Do you miss 14 anons? What went wrong this year?

>>30512904
The meta is still new. 2014 had its own copy and paste team until the meta developed more.

>>30512901
Not necessarily. Consider that showdown isn't known for vgc. It's known for ou. So it's using a smaller testing bed. Where as you might consider players that are playing battle spot special or vgc are going to be the broader vgc focused user base. I haven't seen anyone rated over 1496 most of it is rated 1000.

>>30512901
>what makes Showdown much more diverse at top play?
The games are faster and therefore "experiments" can be conducted much faster. Showdown tends to represent the most quickly evolving metagame and sometimes the outside world adopts showdown strategies a month down the line, while other showdown strategies are mostly isolated to the simulators.

One example is that the torkoal-oranguru cheese strategy was invented on showdown and is just now being adopted by players on battlespot and youtube. I believe the next two or three PC events will feature some predominant players who use a carbon copy of the showdown team (chuppa said so himself after winning the first PC). On showdown you don't need to grind items or breed pokemon so the metagame is a future-oriented version of today's game, essentially. People who play on cartridge are living 3 to 4 weeks in the past.

>>30512957
See:
>>30509539
>>30509619

>>30512901

People take a lot more risks with Showdown. In VGC, people travel to events and might have money riding on a win. VGC is played safe, which means there's little room for improvement. You take the commonly accepted core, have a minor trick, and pray that your opponents' minor trick can't beat yours.

Do you guys think we will see magearnas in this meta? only 1-2 days for the event

Hi. Newbie here. I'm interested in trying out VGC, but I'm just curious about what the deal is with these "core" teams everyone keeps talking about? Like, if I create a team that doesn't use the core that's going around this year, am I just fucked? Will I be unable to hold my own against other players on Battle Spot that use this core? Please respond. I'm interested in the team-building aspect of competitive Pokémon, but if I have to use a specific set of 'mons to compete, then I'm uninterested.

>>30513091
Uh, no? It's banned.

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>>30513017
The showdown VGC17 ladder is starting to reach numbers in the 1800s anon

>>30513029
So you're telling me what I surveyed was the face of the future VGC17? You better not be pulling my leg anon that shit is awesome.

Also the moment I studied Orangutorkoal, I knew that Gigalith basically fucked the whole thing up if you played your cards right anyway.

>>30513068
This sounds like it makes more sense. I'm trying to find replays to survey that feature these high-performing unorthodox teams fighting something at least resembling GACK but they're far and few in-between.

>>30513091
>Mythicals
>VGC

>>30513121
o fuck, true

>>30512901
Adding to what was said, Showdown is bo1, while PC's are often bo3, which means meme teams can't get away too much with abusing the surprise factor. I'd also guess the average PS player is worse than on BS (much lower entry barrier), and certainly than in rl events.

>>30513114
~90% of players work from a very samey core of 3-4 mons so you need to play accordingly, either using the meta core or developing an anti-meta core. Anti-meta cores tend to be weaker overall though.

Pokemon tends to be a highly centralized competitive environment, it's even worse when you don't have rules limiting the number of legal pokemon.

>>30513139
Showdown meta is already evolving past Gurukoal. I think TR teams will become more common though because Koko, DDdos and Garchomp all suffer severely under TR.

>>30513213
tr isn't that hard to counter. roar at it and it goes away.

>>30512748
>Fini probably doesn't do anything for me.
Not surprised. She really is not doing anything there.

Fini is the type of mon you have to build around rather than being an splashable mon.

>>30513309
Any suggestions? I don't want to waste the slot.

>>30512904
>What went wrong this year?
Memesters like you and their total ignorance but still talk like if they are experts who won worlds 10 times in a row.

>>30513035
Did you read anything he posted or what? I'll copy it again for you just in case.

>The meta is still new.
>2014 had its own copy and paste team until the meta developed more.

Stop being a cherrypicking faggot. Your meme squirrel is in no way a good portrayal of how VGC14 was in general. That's all you fucking faggots do. Scour all the tourneys tops and whichever fits your narrative you use to shitpost to oblivion. Fucking kill yourselves already.

>>30513368
You already said Koko and Lele so might as well try those two first and see which one you feel more comfortable with.

>>30513114
That's unfortunate. Still - it might be worth trying out. Thanks for responding.

>>30513414
I feel like with koko I'd be begging for the opponent to drizzle on me. But I don't care to remove Gyarados. So Lele? Snail-waifu?

>>30512901
Showdown is where you go to get memed on by retarded fools who have something so retarded on their team that there is no way it could win twice in a row against the same player. For example, random belly drum gluttony snorlax opening with wiki berry. Any person using that team at a local tournament will meme on someone in their first battle and then get utterly destroyed by any competent player who prepares for it the second and third rounds.

Source: I tried battling on showdown and the nature of the ladder is so stupid that I just gave up. I played 50 battles and got up to 1500 and just said fuck it, this shit is entirely stupid. Battling on showdown teaches you nothing about mind games and having to beat your opponent twice in a row. It just encourages you to use a gay extreme evoboost baton pass team that wins automatically if your enemy wastes just 1 turn. No way could that guy beat a decent player twice in a row with that same team, and there's no way he could dream of touching the top 25 at any regionals. Battling on showdown is retarded because it encourages you to just build a fucking meme team and drop noobs with a gimmick, then say BYE-BYE and hide behind the random battle system.
I'm shit on showdown but I win all my locals and have placed high in several regionals (#4 at a 2014 regional).

TL;DR; showdown is a bunch of homosexual gimmicks that only work the first time you see them, because the ladder system is highly abuseable by gimmick "SURPRISE" teams like that

>>30513139
>>30513029
Speaking of future metas, I wonder what's the nip meta looking like right now. 16 was a blunder for them but I clearly remember how they were super advanced to everyone and their mom during 15, one of the reasons of Japandomination that year.

>>30513387
>ugh, people like the usage of a non-generic team regardless of the circumstances, i can't even

>>30513213
That's why I run semi-TR. I have the option of tailwind or TR.

>>30513432
Meant for:
>>30513174

>>30513480
This is the correct way to run TR, only idiots run a full TR team since you just get destroyed if it doesn't get off.

>>30513464
>ugh, people like people using what's good and consistent and works because they prefer winning and and play the game instead of my idealized version of the game that runs on anime logic, I can't even

Literally you. Kill yourself already. Why are you even here if you dislike comp so much? Don't you guys get tired of bitching about MUH VARIETY every single year?

>>30509856
Autism

>>30513538
I agree it is correct but I am not good enough at team building to get the most out of it. I always feel like some team slots could be used better. Still, it's a nice feeling to start out the game with 2 fast pokemon and then send out porygon or oranguru and surprise TR and then sweep with marowak.

>>30513456
>tfw now in the habit of packing Roar on every team
It's good shit, higher priority than TR and lets you make people waste their precious stat boosts, especially since most boosters are pretty obvious when you've been playing the game as long as most comp players have. Some fag tried to meme on me with Minimize Instruct Drifblim, and evidentally didn't understand that Roar always hits, because he tried it 4 times.

>>30513577
Yeah, literally every team should run a bulkydos/krookodile/arcanine just for intim/roar

>>30513577
>4 times
How did it last that long? Were you fucking around?

>>30513456
Wouldn't battling on cart ladder to test your team do the same thing?

You make a good point that there should be bo3 on the showdown ladder though it would be much better for testing things for events.

>>30513457
Seconding this question. I'm just desperate to hope this meta can evolve beyond GACK but I can't really think of how.

>>30513673
>I'm just desperate to hope this meta can evolve beyond GACK but I can't really think of how.
Holy shit dude. The meta always evolve. Pokemon metas always evolve. Why in the hell you are thinking every single tourney will keep looking these premiers? These are just a ridiculously small-sample size but memesters are trying to present as an infallible wall. CHALK got gountered, even XerDon got countered. Stop being silly.

Question, if a pokemon is inflicted with toxic, will poison touch override the badly poison status or will the chance at being poisoned again not occur due to a previous status condition.

>>30513673
Cart has less meme teams because despite what you may believe most people still breed their shit so if they are gonna test something on ladder they will try to test something serious so as to take as less time possible.

Also, cart is slower and has a much bigger playerbase. More of a reason to take it seriously as you know the others will be taking it more seriously too for the previously given reasons.

>>30513776
a pokemon who has a nonvolatile status condition cannot be statused again.

>>30513793
Nonvolatile as in status effects with the caption unlike confusion or infatuation?

>>30513630
To clarify, the only thing the Drifblim did when it was on the field was Minimize, it was only an Instruct minimize twice.

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>>30513735
It's a mix of paranoia and pessimism really, that and the fact I stump myself trying to think of an anti-meta core myself. I know even XernDon got countered, I was there in SanFran myself to see it happen and I was blown away at the fact the finals weren't PDon wanking.

I'm a little confused though how was CHALK countered when it still stormed Worlds. Was it countered after the fact because we were behind or something?

Funny enough, after comparing GACK Premier to that early Virginia Top 8 from VGC16 that people keep spewing to this day, GACK is still more diverse than XernDon and arguably CHALK.

>>30513787
Makes sense, I'm surprised it's not mostly injectors though with all the need for Celesteela and TopKek.

>>30513867
Oh ok.

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>>30513915
CHALK got countered after Worlds but lol who cares about what happens after Worlds we get a new hot meta in a few months.

Japan dominated so hard because the Nips had started to focus on consistency: A solid block of high BST mons where everything works well with everything no matter who you pick for the match. The rest of the world meta was still heavily match-up based, as in, pick 4 and the other 2 are used only and exclusively to patch a hole in that 4-mon-pick when your opponent has something that can exploit that hole. Get what I mean?

One example of Japan being more advanced than the rest of the world during 2015 was the JapanSand team archetype which when the West discovered and used to to win tourneys here as it was the brand new hot thing the nips had already abandoned and left behind for something else.

>people already making a meme acronym when the only tournaments are TWO of the lowest tier events
Wait until london at least jesus christ

>>30514178
B-But I need my meme points and (yous)!

Ayone got a list of the top 8 teams from PCs this weekend?

>>30514252
...

>>30514252
How about reading the thread first before asking stupid questions lad?

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Chile's PC Top 8

>>30514348
>Politoed+Incineroar

but why

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>>30514348
Which site is this from?

>Sonic Steel
>Incineroar
>Harambe + Turtle+Xurxitree
>Flygon and Gigalith
>Pheromosa + Lele
>Crobat
>Ninetales + Frosslass
Holy shit. Fucking culiaos.

>>30514348
>2 teams without tapus
huh

>>30514348
That top team is pretty interesting. I'd love to see how he played it.

>>30514348
Baracatfags won.

It's over, memeowl and trannyseal fans on suicide watch.

>>30514348
Fuck off Evo Pokemon.

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>>30514348
Aguante Tigre Toño

Intimidate never

>>30514348
>Double Weather
Absolute madman.

>>30514447
>he thinks sonichu is bad

>>30514542
>Tigre Toño
The hell man. You Chileans call him that? He's been Tony here at my spic hole.

>>30514561
I know he's not but it's still funny to see him there.

>>30514586
>The hell man. You Chileans call him that? He's been Tony here at my spic hole.
No.

Also, anyone has the replays?
I want to know que wea paso aquí.

>>30514586
Pretty sure Toño is just a meme name because I too know it by Tony

I hope

>>30514447
>>30514542
>>30514586
>>30514625
>>30514643
Wait, I'm not the only spic here?

>>30514660
Where do you think you are negro

>>30514348
>baracat and croc with politoed
>double weather
>pheromosa
>ninetails + frosslass
>koko, gyara, gigalith, and flygon all on team with no lightningrodder
Absolute madmen

>>30514447
Here's the sauce:
http://www.vgclive.cl/tournament.php?t=16-12-000141

>>30514625
The replays will be up later in the week I think.

>>30514747
Thank you my man.

That's a pretty cool site. US and Yurop could use something like this.

>>30513826
Status effect which stays after switching.

>>30514348
>Baracat + Politoed + Sonichu
>Two teams with no tapus
Conchasumadre

>>30514680
>1 person entered juniors
>Matilda Petrasic
>Matilda
>A little girl

Provided that this information is accurate, damn I feel sorry for her.

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Eevee Meme won in Argentina

>>30514904
Aw, that's sad. Free win I guess. Hopefully she had fun playing friendlies with other people there. I've never been to a VGC event, how are they usually atmospherewise?

>>30514958
>Getting fucking rekt by Eevee
Wow, just how bad Argentinians are

>>30514958
>Not one but TWO Eevees in there

Lmeo

>>30514958
>magnemite

>>30514970
>Hopefully she had fun playing friendlies with other people there.
Yeah I really hope the same.

>I've never been to a VGC event, how are they usually atmospherewise?
I have no idea, never been to a VGC event either.

>>30514958
What is Parasect of all things doing there?

>>30515068
Rage Powder and Wide Guard and Spore.

>>30514958
kek

>>30515068
Parasect is Amoongus but 8x weak to fire.

>>30515024
You mean magneton. I think it's a viable alternative to magnezone, because it outspeeds celesteela.

>>30515086
That sounds infuriating.

>>30509661
fini more like tapu shitty

>>30515155
Not really cause Parasect is fucking garbage. But it resists electric and has water immunity.

>>30515276
You mean a dominate force in the meta?

>>30515371
same dude who asked about it earlier.
Dominate as in "manageable because it dies from strong sunlight" or Dominant as in "How to make a team step 1: Add Parasect".

Question: I have a Bewear with the egg moves Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, and Wide Guard, two of which aren't legal yet because Ampharos and Mienshao are transfermons. Since this Bewear was hatched before I could legally get it, will I get caught if I use it in future events, after bank?

Also, is there a way to see what PCs or comps are near me? I don't know exactly how the system works, but I'm interested in trying to compete at worlds.

>no limit on Tapus
>no limit on UBs

What did they mean by this?

>>30515469
Don't ruin this for me anon, as a kid I thought parasect was cool until I realized bugs were awful in gen 1.

>>30515548
But those are legal. Smeargle.

>>30515611
Oh hey, same egg group. Thanks.

>>30515548
I bred my Storm Trow/Power Trip Pangoro with a single Smeargle.
Field egg group is easy.

How do you deal with porygon2?

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>>30509539
>>30509619
Where the fuck the speed control at? I see 2, 3 teams tops that have any form of speed control.

i want the pokebank out i want fake out on salazzle already

>>30515584
It's still bad because it has dogshit stats. But it does have a niche because Amoongus isn't legal and Shiinotic isn't nearly as good as Amoongus was.

I'm thinking Incineroar might actually have a really cool niche as a current anti-meta mon.

Throat Chop prevents Gyarados/Arcanine from Roar-ing a TR setter or boosted mon, and can beat Marowak/Celesteela with its stabs.

Takes hits from Tapus/Garchomp/attacking Gyarados, but it can also provide FO support even though it doesn't have Intimidate yet.

Why is Gyrados so popular? What is the set? Full offense?

>>30516009
Also no status. Sleep isn't going to work because of koko, but nobody is running fini. Burn alone fucks 2 of the koko-chomp-celesteela core. I don't see why nobody is running it. We will probably see it come into the meta later.

>>30516930
Can either run DD with varying levels of speed/bulk or as a bulky support with Twave/Roar/Taunt.

>>30516938
It's seeing more use in Latin American events where Koko isn't as popular. Koko/Lele are king in NA, Bulu/Fini are more popular in SA.

>>30509452
How do you determine if a support pokemon is worth his slot? I want a light screen user but I don't know which pokemon could use it while still justifying its spot on the team over a pokemon that just knows protect + 3 attack moves.

>>30517063
>screens

what is this 2016 or something? here in the future we use aurora veil.

Ninetails-A is the only screener worth using in this meta desu.

>>30517063
Just use Ninetales friend.

>>30517135
Addendum: Reflect Nihilego is also a thing, but Ninetails is the only dedicated screener.

>>30509452
I wanna make a team with Buzzwole and Celesteela on it, any other team member suggestions?

>>30517172
Don't use Buzzwole.

Celesteela is the current meme UB so read the thread for what's being used alongside her.

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>>30517240
But I gotta man, I can't betray Skeeter like that.

>>30517322
Well, let's do it the hard way.

Do you have any idea of how you wanna use the skeeter? Any movesets or how you can think he'll be able to pull his weight?

Mind you, I'm telling you to not because I dislike him but because in the current meta he's not that good so you'll have difficulties.

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>genies replaced by tapus


REMOVE KOKO

>>30517363
Literally don't care, just wanna use him.
I heard Nihilego goes good with Buzzwole because of typing but I only ever play casually with friends (albeit with perfect Pokemon) so not sure what I'm doing when it goes to team building.

>make a bunch of pokemon with cool abilities to use in doubles
>forget to remove Garchomp who is basically optimised with legendary stats
>LEGENDARIES BEING LEGAL FOR ANOTHER RUINED TOURNAMENT

Classic Gamefreak.

A child could balance this better.

>>30517440
>i'm a casual
>lol i dont want to use good things i want to use muh bro xD

you'll never make top cut with that attitude kid. Nihilego works not just because of the typing but because Buzzwole has fucking awful special bulk (zubat used air cutter is a real thing here) and Nihilego has very solid special bulk, and both have good offensive presence which is important in doubles. Nihilego works well with Kartana for the same reason.

>>30517488
>LEGENDARIES LEGAL

uh no? sublegendaries are legal. Sublegendaries have always, back to the very first Nintendo events, been legal. Only things with BST over 600 or obtained through events only are banned. Part of the point of legendaries is that they are really good pokemon meant to be used in competitive play.

>>30514348
>chile

>>30517536
It's not like 30 points in stats make much of a difference dude. When you still have +120 BST over everything else available in the tournament then you're going to centralize the entire meta.

> Sublegendaries have always, back to the very first Nintendo events, been legal

that's kind of his point you dolt.

>>30512957
This is why I don't play Vgc till Pokebank is out

never made a team before, currently working on breeding a garchomp. Whats the standard set? should I bother breeding outrage onto him?

>>30517500
I want to use Lurantis too but I'm not that casual that I can't see when something isn't gonna cut it, Buzzwole is decent enough where I'm hoping I can use him decently while still having an ok team. Celesteela-Buzzwole (I was thinking of Assualt Vest but Celesteela and Nihilego are both kinda covering the special wall thing)-Nihilego is all I could think of without an abundance of overlapping weaknesses which is where my teams always fall apart.

What's the set for A-maroawak and Gyrados

>>30517488
>>30517657
You'd be complaining about whatever would be used over those mons if those mons were banned.

>Muh legendaries and high bst fallacy
Oh yeah because Articuno and Slaking dominated every single VGC they were allowed, amirite?

Get out scrub.

Thoughts on Bewear? Apparently it gets Wide Guard, and can take any physical hit pretty easily. I'm assuming it'd also work well with Assvest, but the calculator doesn't seem to be working right now for some reason. The problem is, it needs LO to 2HKO 252/252 Celesteela with Thunderpunch, Gigavolt Havoc doesn't get the kill by itself. It does OHKO Garchomp with Ice Punch regardless though.

I can't wait until early hype ends and all the shitters stop coming into our general. For every time there's a decent discussion there's 10 others about a random retard asking for meme sets for his shitmon bro or people asking for sets for things that are literally auto-run. I never thought I'd ever see people asking how to run Garchomp of all things.

>>30517924
F I R E
I
R
E

>>30517924
He can work if you give it tons of anti-fairy support. If you make your team around killing all special attackers and then burning the physical attackers then you can win-con by making him impossible to kill that way.

But yeah, fairies up the ass right now make it difficult for him.

>>30517889

The delicious Slaking fallacy, the calling card of a moron.

>>30518001
Says the retard who thinks legendary = broken. How's 1st grade going for you? Careful with those dangerous Regis on the way back home when mommy picks you up.

>>30512904
Why did they all use Bronzong? I missed something.

>>30517971
What's even running fire coverage now? I've only seen Marowak and the occasional Flamethrower Celesteela.

>>30518039
Xerneas cockblock and killer and Groudon can't touch it under rain.

>>30518039
Can set screens and survive Pdon while it does so.
Thats my take though.

>>30518050
Arcanine could be an issue.

>>30518050
Arcanine.

>>30518050
Torkoal

>>30518126
>Eruption: The Meta.
It's fun, but how long will it last?

>>30518028
>"DURR LEGENDARY =/= BROKEN"

>entire format dominated by multiple legendaries on every team

ok dude. You really think shit like turtonator and bewear stand a chance to be used when you allow the tapus? get real fuck-o

>>30518206
People will run it through regionals but you won't see one in top 8 at worlds.

>>30518238
What about London?

>>30518234
those are shitmons. Turt wouldn't be used even if all tapus and UBs were banned. Bewear wouldn't either, maybe if you banned all pseudos too.

>>30518268
You're avoiding my point because you understand that you've been utterly defeated.

>>30518206
One or two weeks of events after it becomes the IRL memeteam.

>>30518234
The Tapus are good because of a plethora of things the less important of them all being a meaningless qualification.

Either way, Tortunator and Bewear still wouldn't get use even if the Tapus were to be banned because surprise surprise they are shitmons.

Also, the Tapus are Guardian Deities, not Legendaries so your point is null anyway :^)

>>30514660
I've met tons of cool south american/mexican/spanish/puerto rican anons on /vp/.

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>>30518302
>the less important of them all being a meaningless qualification.
........................................ why don't you understand that the "meaningless qualification" is the exact reason gamefreak deigned to give them all of the "plethora of things they are good because of" you fucking short-sighted fool.

"it's a legendary" isn't a "meaningless qualification." The word "legendary" means something. In this game, it means "really good pokemon that is clearly better than most others." Gee guess what happens when you flood the meta with those?

>>30518296
No, I'm avoiding your point because you don't have one. Your argument is stupid.

>THE LEVEL OF POWER IN THE META IS TOO HIGH SO WE NEED TO ARBITRARILY BAN AN ENTIRE CLASS OF POKEMON, MOST OF WHICH ARE IN NO WAY BROKEN SO POKEMON THAT I LIKE SEE MORE USE

That is your argument. You'd have to ban much, much more than legendaries before shit like turt/bewear saw use. Bitch at Nintendo for making shitmons in the first place, don't bitch that the rules don't favor your favorite shitmon.

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>>30518028
>>30518302
So basically you guys have no argument. Someone points out that the same legendary pokemon is on every single team in the top 8 of every single tournament played at this point + it's on 20 of the top 25 showdown teams, and the best you two can do is argue semantics, claim "it's not really a legendary," bring up irrelevant shit about regirock, and backpedal.

Whether you want to technically call it a legendary or not, it doesn't fucking matter. The point still stands that it's on every team and we're going to have another shitshow of a VGC this year. Stop evading the point and learn to argue.

Baaaaaw stop using good things you guys!

>>30518501
this
I want the autists to leave.

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>>30518423
>WE NEED TO ARBITRARILY BAN AN ENTIRE CLASS OF POKEMON
No, just 4. It's really not hard.

Auto-terrain summoning that gives a legendary (yes, legendary you semantics-arguing faggot nigger) free choice specs/band of his own STAB when most already have 100+ attacking stat already is ridiculous and too powerful for the meta. Do you disagree that it's unhealthy for 7 of the top 8 to be exactly the same as each other with the only deciding factor between matches being which one Protect-predicts the other one? That's a healthy and fun metagame to you?

Nobody is arguing for "shitmons being in the meta cuz I like that more." People are arguing for a more fun game, idiot. If you like playing tapu koko + celesteela + garchomp + marowak versus tapu koko + celesteela + gyarados + marowak ad infinitum then I guess you've won and there is no reason for you to rampantly shitpost here. Go play your fun and healthy metagame and leave the rest of us to whine about what could have been. You're the victor so take your spoils.

Ah, I see. It's an empty victory.

>>30517665
It won't matter unless you're waiting for '18. they won't change up the restrictions after the season starts that's stupid.

I could see Turtonator getting some niche use later in the season. It gets Wide Guard, Roar, nukes with Z Meteor or Shell Trap, good typing, cockblocks Bulu and Celesteela, and it can play a mindgame with physical attackers through Shell Trap. There don't seem to be a lot of contact physical attackers right now though, besides Gyarados and Marowak.

>>30518675
It's a shame Shell Trap doesn't work like King's Shell or Spiky Shield. Pretty lame desu.

>>30518558
>the game isn't fun cuz these pokemon are meanie weanies and don't let me use muh bros

there is no reason to believe that the game would be any more fun to play without Tapus and auto weather. In fact, terrain plays add an extra dimension to play. Initially the pokemon able to set these automatically will be limited but as with weathers, they'll gradually expand auto-terrains to other pokemon.

all of that aside, you're being hysterical.

>THE META IS THE SAME TEAM 8 TIMES

The meta for literally the first event of a season which lasts all year. People found counterplay to CHALK on simulator. People found counterplay to Xerneas/Pdon. In fact not one of the top 3 at worlds used Xerneas despite people bitching about it being worse than Mray.

>>30518558
Are you a woman? The passive-aggressiveness in your post is out of this world. The sour grapes too.

>>30518696
>there is no reason to believe that the game would be any more fun to play without Tapus and auto weather
Except there is. Tapus are meta-centralizing. It's really that simple.

>all of that aside, you're being hysterical.
You're the one paraphrasing other people in all caps and then tacking an insult onto the end of every sentence. You don't have the right to claim that other people are being hysterical.

Like I said, go on and play your fun and healthy metagame. If you're so satisfied with it, then why bother posting here now to argue about it? You should be assured in your victory and the state of the game, so go play it. I'm sure your extra fun garchomp versus garchomp battles will play out in an interesting way. Maybe the opponent will use protect on their left pokemon instead of their right pokemon, woo big plays.

>>30518781
Do you even play this game?

>>30518781
(You)

Tapus are more fun than Genies desu.

I wish Genies got fucking retconned and deleted.

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So I'm this close to go for a Gigalith/Bulu/Fini/Metagross/Arcanine/Stoutland team. How bad of an idea this is?

>>30518558
anon, those top 8 pokemon are just the best in filling up their roles.

unless you find a way to counter these common threats, or gamefreak either nerfs them, or buffs up pokemon that can counter them, people will continue on using them, simply because they have more success using these teams

And quite frankly people go to VGC to win and they would want to win, so they would use the best mons as possible to achieve that.

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>>30518028
>>30518234
>>30518268
>>30518302
>>30518389
>>30518423
>>30518456
>>30518501
>>30518529
>>30518558
>>30518696
>>30518781
>The city of Shitposting

Start your own gay thread if you want to waggle dicks at each other.

Back on topic: A-golem is pretty cool. Do you guys think he will have any use in semi-TR teams? He can portentially OHKO most everything.

>>30518858
play it on showdown to be certain first. see how far you ladder and how you get taken out. adjust accordingly.

>>30518859
>And quite frankly people go to VGC to win and they would want to win
Obviously, so they will use the best. I get it. Nobody blamed the players. I blamed GF's incompetence at balancing their own game.

>anon, those top 8 pokemon are just the best in filling up their roles.

No shit, that's why I want the ridiculous terrain-summoning legendaries with 100 BST higher than every other common pokemon on the island to be banned so we can get more diversity. When you create a pokemon that does a job better than every other similar pokemon plus give it a unique ability that summons a free choice specs on the field for your entire team while negating sleep status, obviously nothing else is viable. Your argument that "uhh well if you ban tapu koko then it will just be the next best thing that will take its place" is really fucking stupid and short-sighted. There is no pokemon like tapu koko. It simply beats everything that is remotely similar. However, the next best things are shit like raichu, lanturn, jolteon, xurkitree, the list goes on. Do you really think that jolteon has such a huge lead over everything else on that list that it will become the #1 only pokemon that is played as the electric attacker on the team? Nothing else will ever get played?

The pokemon farther down on the totem pole are much closer to each other in terms of movepool, stats, and overall competitive viability. If you ban tapu koko that would give at least 4+ viable choices for an electric attacker. If you allow tapu koko to stay, it's literally the only choice available. Nothing else even matters. Do you see the fucking point now, retard? Ban just 1 pokemon and we can open the floodgates for myriad strategies and myriad pokemon to be used. Right now that's impossible because the top pokemon are so clearly far ahead of everything else.

>>30519066
Tapu koko is really not that big of a deal. Ground types exist, lightningrod exists, grass and electrics exist. Celesteela is more centralizing than any tapu.

>>30519066
Jesus dude go play nu or uu.

>>30519228
singles format is shit

>>30519253
Like your attitude?

>>30519253
ok, go play doubles ou where landorus has more usage than in vgc15

>>30511571
>sun/moon gifs
where did you get this

>>30519066
So? You're bitching about banning tapu X so other viable choices would be much more used, you haven't even mentioned if you have thought of a way to counter these threats which I also clearly said.

Tapu Koko isn't much of threat with lightning rod users and ground types existing in the meta

Clearly you haven't tried playing VGC.

>>30519375
they can be gotten from showdown
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/silvally.gif
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani-back/incineroar.gif

>>30519451
>you haven't even mentioned if you have thought of a way to counter these threats which I also clearly said.
Yes, the counter is obvious. It's "use celesteela + garchomp."

>>30519451
>Tapu Koko isn't much of threat with lightning rod users and ground types existing in the meta
Ya that's why it's on every team. LMFAO get real kid. If it "wasn't that much of a threat" then nobody would run it.

Can alolan ninetales learn will-o-wisp?

>>30519806
No, it cannot

>>30519898
FUCK. Which pokemon is best at spreading burn and is also useful to the team in other ways?

>>30520025
Arcanine.

Speaking of which, I'm using one on my team but I can't settle at all on what to use on it. I'm having way too many problems choosing my items too. Megas really made everything easier.

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I have a team concept to use gravity so I can spam high power, low accuracy moves. Is that a viable strategy or just a pipe dream?

>>30520171
>Any suggestions?
Please use pastebin next time.

>but I feel like I need to change a few things.
It seems pretty standard. What you don't like?

>>30520207
>Gravity
Gimmick/10.

>>30520171
delete this post and repost it as a pastebin

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This is going to be a really stupid question but all the competitions and any sort of competitive play is in the festival plaza right?

Didn't even give a shit about EV's until recent

>>30520236
>>30520232
Sorry, forgot.

http://pastebin.com/LYuXpGss

I keep hitting some roadblocks. And Gyara and Chomp feels redundant. I guess I wanna try different spreads/mons.

Wait, what happened to the Harambe+Torkoal hype that was happening just a few days ago?

Meta already changed?

>>30520321
>Harambe

Fuck off

>>30517672
haha, no. not for VGC.

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>>30520321

Oranguru isn't a fucking gorilla.

>>30509619
What is the most popular Nihilego nature? modest, timid? What is its function?

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>>30520336
I came from /r/Pokemon and right now I'm /r/outoftheloop

Why are 4channers so hostile to us humble redditors?

>>30520383

Stealth rocks + suicide toxics.

>>30520395
fuck off

>>30520383
Timid. Gotta outspeed those filthy landsharks by one point and rekt them with HP ice.

>>30520383
Try this friendo

Nihilego @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt

>>30519517

The tapus could be pyukumuku tier and everyone would still use them sheerly for their free terrains.

>>30520447
Terrain is not that good to be honest.

Maybe if there were more equivalent of weather abilities that worked under them. Tapus would still be good even without the Terrain, Terrains are just the cherry on top of the cake. Except for Fini who got a cake with a prune instead of a cherry.

>>30520321
Redditfagging aside what happened to trick room?

>>30520447
Lol no. Tell me who you think the terrain abusers are? It's always the Tapus themselves that abuse their own terrain. You'll notice the rest of the team never really benefits from the terrain, only the Tapu itself. Who the fuck benefits from psychic terrain besides Tapu Lele? Get real retard. You think people would run a psychic terrain magikarp? You really think cancelling priority moves in a meta where nobody is using any priority moves is that important?

>>30520519
>Who the fuck benefits from psychic terrain besides Tapu Lele?
Pheromosa

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>>30520519
Are priority moves just not good anymore? I want to run priority moves as a form of speed control but I don't know why nobody is using them anymore; makes me think it's a bad strategy and there is something I'm missing. Lele isn't really that common is it?

>>30520552
There's really no good priority abusers besides Scizor this year.

>>30520519
>being this retarded

why the fuck would you want to run a magikarp on your team, is that your autistic delusional idea of "diversity"?

You're the one who needs to get real.

>>30520588
You completely missed his point.

>>30520538
Yeah because pheromosa is so great in doubles isn't she.

There is maybe 1 team in the entire top 25 who used pheromosa and that's because the psychic terrain summoner gets access to literally the hardest hitting attack in the entire metagame after setting up its own terrain. You really think people would use a psychic terrain metapod just to set up for pokemon that isn't even seeing use by top players?

Let's be honest, Bulu, Koko, and Lele are the #1 beneficiaries of their own terrain. Everyone else that uses it is just along for the ride.

>>30520588
Bro what the fuck is your problem. You can't even read (I guess that what your problem is lol)

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>>30509535
>>30509539
>>30509619
>>30514348
>>30514958
LMAO why the fuck isn't anyone using burn??? Burn REKTs this metagame

I love using Fell Stinger AssVest Buzzwole. He's a great in late game doubles.
@Assault Vest
Adamant
Max HP and Atk/ 4 Spe
-Leech Life
-Fell Stinger
-Superpower
-Rockslide

I want to put some of his attack into his bulk, because Fell Stinger and BBoost will cover that, so he can survive a bit more punishment. Any suggestions?

>>30520730
but fairies..

>>30520730
What are you using him with? If you want him to become even bulkier Arcanine with Snarl would be a good partner.

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I don't think I've seen 1 use of helping hand on showdown ladder. Why is that? Is it bad this year?

>>30520812
TUTOR
U
T
O
R

>>30520845
Arcanine can learn it and he's popular. The entire eevee line can learn it and they have untapped potential in this meta I think

>>30520782
Okay, I was using Krookodile for my Intimidator, and Whimsicott for Z-Momento recovery.

Is this a good set for Krookodile?

King K. Rool (Krookodile) (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Fang

Should I change the item? Protect over Crunch?

>>30520882
Arcanine prefers to use his moveslots on other more valuable things. He really doesn't need it as he can afford to pull his weight offensively.

>Eevee line
All trash and outclassed completely by other mons. Hilariously enough, Eevee is probably the best of them all right now.

>>30520959
>implying anything has comparable power to a bulky Metronome Pixilate Echoed Voice Sylveon

>>30520496

These threads are always painful to read. Why must people be such retards my friends?

>>30520552
>>30520575

The only other one is golisopod, which is pretty sub par. It just only one normal STAB in aqua jet, compared to bullet punch and mach punch Scizor get.

>tfw shitter who can't break 1100 on showdown
I was actually pretty good at 2015, but I just can't seem to get the hang of it now, even with a copypasted team.

I fell for the catch Tapu Koko on first encounter and it's a bold nature. Can I make use of it in anyway? Also are Electivire and/or Stoutland possible in an electric team?

>>30521618
I'm in the same boat

How are people running Milotic? No Icy Wind is kind of a bust, isn't it? Competitive Adrenaline Orb seems kind of cool, but still doesn't really seem that powerful.

What's more popular now, VGC or smogon singles?

Just lost at 49 chain in super singles battle tree.
What items are important to get with BP? I've already got:
All the breeding shit,
Assault Vest
Life Orb (from the ground)
Leftovers (From muchlax)
Choice Scarf
Focus Sash.
81 BP in the bank.

>>30521749
That's always been the question, hasn't it?
But VGC is always about 33%-50% as popular as OU on showdown and showdown isn't even the main place to play it.

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>>30521618
>>30521655
I'm still not able to get out of the pick a mega and build around it-trap. I can't even go pick a weather team building mode because pretty much no good weather abusers this year.

I don't usually into VGC, can anyone explain why my boy Gyarados is getting so much use?

>>30521948
For the same reason he's always been used.

Good offensive mon that can also provide support.

>>30514958
What is this evee meme?
Also
>clefairy
>I was told yesterday I was retarded for wanting to run clefairy this gen because it doesn't have all it's egg moves available
Exciting.

>>30521783

Choice Specs and Choice band are necessary.

Rocky Helmet is good for tanky mons.

>>30522034

Yep. All you get it wish. No heal pulse for you, fuccboi.

Spotlight+Turtonator is a fun combo. People expect the trap, but they don't expect spotlight forcing them to attack it.

>>30522170
Thanks for the info. Those'll be my next purchases then.

What's the general build for Koko and Lele? Need to catch them and want the right nature

>>30521703
competitive+rindo/wacan is better

Just ban the Tapus and UBs

>>30522679
>didn't ban primals/ray
>unbanned genies
They're here to stay

>>30522703
>Unbanned
Genies have never been banned m8

>>30522703
Haven't been keeping up to date. This is looking rly grim.

>>30514348
That country's VGC community died with the release of X&Y.

>>30522744
What?

>>30522823
I haven't followed serious Pokemon stuff since Gen 5. Last time I checked Sinnoh-Moonthing was the most "legendary" pkmn you could get. Now they have Primals and Rayq Legal?! Why!

>>30522917
But they aren't.

>>30522703
>didn't ban primals/ray
>>30522939
>But they aren't

Who is lying to me

>>30522917
Why are you spouting ignorant opinions, worse of all, while knowing you are ignorant?

Last year format, VGC16 allowed big legends like VGC10 did so many many years ago. 2 per team.

This year the format is only Pokemon that appear in the Aloladex.

For reference, 2015 was NatDex minus big legends and 2014 was Kalosdex only. 2011 was Unovadex only, 12 was BW NatDex and 2012 was BW2 NatDex.

>>30522957
VGC rules change every year

how do people make their team ingame? is it fine to breed with a genned ditto? if anyone has a ditto can i get one? pls?

>>30523046
We obviously "breed" with our "legal 6IV ditto" we "captured".

>>30523046
God, now we don't care if you gen things in your game.

but 4 IV dittos are so easy to chain now than in any other generations.

>>30523122
>>30523112

WE dont care but how bout VGC? wouldnt they care? the pros are still breeding i think

>>30523161
>the pros are still breeding i think
Yeah I'm sure they are anon.

>>30523175
>Pokémon
>Pro
There's no such thing as a "pro" in Pokémon, anon.

>>30523209
Sarcasm anon, we've talked about it before.

>>30523209
Technically there is now that you can earn straight up cash from tournaments

>Marowak has Lightning Rod

FOR
WHAT
REASON?

Also in my current team I'm realizing Tapu Fini is dead weight and I already have Celesteela to be bad against Lightning. Anyone got a good suggestion for a special tank?

Whats the best set currently for Celesteela? Obviously Heavy Slam, and I'm seeing a lot of the subseed set with that but STAB Acrobatics seems pretty useful to me too.

>>30523339
The bone club is the lightning rod. It's silly but somewhat believable.

>>30523406
>Whats the best set currently for Celesteela?
There's none. She's a ridiculously versatile Pokemon. Use her depending on your needs or preference.

Holy shit someone else needs to see how OP araquanid is in rain with a band, I've literally OHKO'd celesteela's in the rain and brought a mudsdale to 1% in the sun. If you get off a TR that thing will just rape everything with instruct, it's my win con almost every match when it's only there for damage

>>30510392
I run a specially defensive spread with Competitive and Kee Berry. I used to do Adrenaline Orb, but I have more bulk with Kee Berry

>>30523339
porygon2

>>30520703
has burn been changed this gen? I thought I heard it does less damage, but idr

>>30509452
>Everyone is disappointed at the static team compositions we have seen from the first 2 premier challenge events.
Is it 15/16 all over again?
Real talk, give it time. There was a period where mixed Rayquaza and bulky Ho-Oh was a thing.
Speaking of which, has TR Gengar returned any this season?

>>30512208
wait, regular Raichu is legal?

>>30524150
It does like 1/16 damage instead of 1/8. I don't remember the numbers, but it does less damage. That's why burning celesteela doesn't do anything, because leftovers/leech seed.

>>30524258
After bank it will be

>>30524279
How?

>>30524297
Holding an everstone makes a non-alolan baby or something

>>30524324
That doesn't work for the mixed evos.

>>30524324
if the mom isnt Alolan?

>>30524337
mixed evos?

>>30524338
I think so yes, haven't done it myself but the proof is out there

What happened to the OP?

So how does Alolan Persian work in the meta?

>>30524425
fur coat with parting shot shenanigans plus some combo of fake out/protect/taunt/foul play/snarl
it's pretty annoying, especially with a z-crystal because z-parting shot fully heals the incoming pokemon

Z-Me First Lucario

>>30524365
It doesn't work if the Alolan Form is only the final evolution. There is no way to get them to evolve into it.

>>30509452
Is going to london this week worth it for the experience? Any other anons going?