Miss gyms yet?

Nope.

>>30319418
/thread

>>30319404
Not one bit

Stars will have Trials AND Gyms, anyway.

Why did you post unofficial artwork? To fluff up the gym leaders from the forgotten region.

>>30319404
Yes. Totems are good, but the trials were just shit.

We could easily get back Totems by having the Gym Leaders all be double battles

A little. But I did enjoy a new take on the idea.
Also the idea that this region doesn't have a League and so no Gyms was pretty cool. It's like a look into this world before the status quo was set.

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>>30319404
>using the Johto gyms to justify that image

They'll be back next gen. It was a nice shake up of the formula 2bh

>>30319404
No, but I would have liked to be able to battle all of the Trial Captains in the postgame given that they establish a Pokemon League w/ Elite Four by that point.

And yes, I know you can circle back and battle Ilima, Lana, and Kiawe (Sun)/Lana (Moon) in their houses in addition to Mina twice and Sophocles at the League.

>>30319477
why does the region the pokemon come from matter? People always post this as a HAHA BTFO type thing but I dont get it.

What's there to miss? It was just a glorified ladder of trainer battles against people using two of a pool of about five Pokemon that you could easily sweep with any simple type counter.

>>30319404
>Captains have personality, which is imprinted on their trials (or lack thereof in Mina's case). They all have their own stories, motivations, and most also have little side events that you can participate in at your leisure, and not just nameless NPCs going "X does Y and that's really neat!"
>They actually interact with each other and the Kahunas, both onscreen and offscreen.
>They're actually directly involved in their communities, and not just "that faggot that keeps the constant stream of 10-year-olds cycling through town".

Hell no I don't miss gyms. Even if they come back they'd better maintain this quality of character writing. I couldn't tell you a single Kahuna or Captain that I didn't at least somewhat care about. Even the fucking Normal guy wasn't totally boring.

>>30319534
But that describes Gym Leaders.

I really dont see how people think SM is the first game to have their leaders have personality or interaction. Did XY burn them THAT hard?

Is this how Unovafags acted when their gym leaders came out?

>>30319524
It's less the region of the gym Pokemon and more the lack of variety. Two haunters, two magnemites, three leaders who only have two Pokemon to begin with, and a gym leader with 2/3 Pokemon being kakuna or metapod.

I could care less what region they're from, those teams are garbage.

>>30319404
Trials + Totems are better than gyms ever were. They let the personalities and quirks of the captains shine more than gyms, and allowed for a wider variety of different minigames without seeming too arbitrary.

In general, I also really enjoyed how the Island Challenge was made more explicitly into a thing that kids do. There was less of the "inexplicably kids go out and wander the world and nobody thinks its weird" and more "there are actually adults who volunteer their time to watch out for kids and make sure nothing goes wrong." The captain's barricades were a less annoying form of railroading because they were acknowledged for what they were in-universe. Alola is honestly one of the first times in a while that I've been able to immerse myself in the actual journey.

>>30319582
HG/SS is the only game with gym leaders to give them nearly as much of a presence and sense of a daily life as S/M has.

I guess Platinum had the Battle Frontier cafe too but that's really not the same.

>>30319582
>But that describes Gym Leaders.
Only in Unova, sadly. Nowhere else did gym leaders actually have jobs.

>>30319582
Unova and Alola have the only Gym Leaders with actual personalities. Specially Alola with all the side-quests for the Trial Captains.

>>30319404
Hell yes.
I

>>30319477
What pisses me off is you could easily have given all of them more johto mon but they didn't. Like why does olivia have a second magnemite instead of a skarmory?

>>30319404
He actually has higher level Pokemon than all of them

>>30319524
m-muh challenge

No.

>>30319582
>Did XY burn them THAT hard

It really did. Progress had started with Pt and HGSS and Unova really put a lot of life into the gym leaders. Then XY and ORAS came around and returned to basically doing absolutely nothing with them. Alola is now continuing the progression where they left off from Unova

>>30319609
3 leaders having two pokemon doesnt mean much, Whitney was still famously hard for people with just two, and Chuck's Hypnosis Dynamic Punch Poliwrath means they had something thought out for him. The two Haunters had different strategies. Though I agree a single Misdreavus would have been better.

>>30319667
>>30319682
Obviously HGSS and Unova leaders are what I meant, but that's still 3 regions worth of gym leaders out of 6.

Hoenn leaders had personality, but their lack of leaving the gym hampered them.

All I'm saying is the Trial Captains arent the bright spark in a turd sandwich, as they dont seem very far off from things Ive seen happen in many other games, and certainly not very far off the ones in Johto and Unova. I dunno.

>>30319404
No, kys yourself

>>30319582
It's not just a matter of personality, it's that trial captains have a presence both in and out of their trials whereas a gym leader is seen at the end of their gym and never again. Maybe once or twice more if they're popular.

Nope. I enjoyed the trials, most of them at least. I do wish there were more though.

Also fuck version exclusive trainers so hard.

>>30319404
Yes. I hope they bring them back next gen, but I doubt they will. Feels bad man XDXDXDXXDXDXDXD

>>30319747
>Falkner could have had a Hoothoot
>Bugsy could have Spinarak and Ledian
>Whitney is okay but could have a Furret or whatever
>Morty could have Misdreavus
>Chuck could Hitmontop
>Jasmine could have a Skarmory and Foretress
>Pryce could have a Sneasel

fuck claire I guess

>>30319804
To be fair, I think most of Whitney's difficulty came from people being either reasonably young while playing it (i.e. not knowing strategy), or just flat-out having a shitty team and crippling themselves for it.

One of those things is acceptable due to the target audience, but the other is purely on the player; there's no real reason for her to have been difficult.

And that goes for pretty much everyone else as well: it worked out alright as it is, but it could have been so much better. At this point that feels like the motto of pokemon games though.

>>30319404
Yes

Aside from the totem pokemon trials just hand hold you. If gym leaders pokemon were that powerful that's the best of both

>>30319801
>Oras
I mean, Norman, Watson, and I guess Wallace got a lot more than normal. You could also find the E4 and other gym leaders doing small, minuscule things around the region. That or they get some mention by npcs. It was definitely a step down, but it wasn't nonexistent.

>>30319404
Totems were way more fun than gym leaders and we still effectively got leader battles along the way anyway. Trials vs gym """"""puzzles"""""" doesn't matter even the tiniest bit.

>>30319404
Yes. Trials are fucking dumb petsite quests full of kids. You have to be either extremely underage or legitimately retarded to prefer them over gyms. Just as retarded as you'd have to be to say Sinnoh or Johto gym leaders didn't have personality. They just had less presence ingame, that's it.

>>30319875
Miltank has extremely high stats in comparison to the NFE Pokemon you were probably running around with at that point in the game. So few Pokemon at that point resisting rock attacks had a lot to do with it, too.

>>30319432
[citation needed]

>>30319812
But that only describes the leaders in Kalos, FRLG Kanto and some of Hoenn and Sinnoh.

>>30319875
I agree with all of that, but I see a legitimate effort put into her whole team composition, which is something I dont see very often. I can see strategy in how they expected a battle to go hard in HGSS gym leaders, Tate and Liza, and the Totem battles. sure, going for the supereffective mon made them easier, but most other gyms (and a couple trials) were pretty damn easy regardless of team

>"Johto" gyms
>Only 4 Johto pokemon in total

>>30319404
Nope

Sophocles a shit but most of the others are fine

I think overall the trial captains/kahunas were leagues better than most of the leaders we've had since gen 5.

>>30319694
ORAS says hi.

>>30319582
Unova is the only region with gym leaders that do anything. Other regions have like 1 or 2 cases (Falkner comes to mind).

There isn't a single gym leader with as much development as Kiawe despite him only showing up a few times

>>30319404
the trials were mediocre (most boiled down to fetch quests, spot the difference, chase the quest marker etc) the totem battles were interesting since you had to fight doubles combinations with a single mon.
maybe change it up next game by having the totem assisted by the captain with a team of 2-5 pokemon rather than calling in random allies.

Trainers in this game are worse off than other gens, most having one pokemon, even after a few routes. Truthfully speaking, the trials are a nice new twist, but overall, the lack of pokemon in the random trainers across the game, makes me miss gyms for some reason.

>>30320119
I liked how most Unova Gyms were also their workplaces.

Trials + Captain battle are way better since you already have to battle rivals/team leaders anyway.

I think Trials need to be more strictly formulated.

>enter trial area
>do trial-puzzle
>fight pokemon as you progress trial
>encounter totem at the end

Lana's trial wasn't even a trial until the very end wheren you fight the Wishiwashi.
Kiawe's become a bit of a joke halfway through so it became pointless.
Mina didn't even have a trial.
The abandoned Dragon Trial you do didn't even have anything to it besides walking down the hallway

>>30319404
Nope, gyms were a mistake and hope it's being buried forever along with HMs

>>30320171
To be fair, the AI is considerably better than it was in previous games.
It didn't really matter that they had one mon because they used that one mon better than a trainer using three in say DP.

>>30320211
also I wouldn't mind it if it was a mix of gyms, where instead of just a totem, you fight the trial captain, whose last pokemon is a totem that can summon help.

>>30320171
Boy I sure do miss fighting trainers with 6 Magikarps or 3 Caterpies

>>30319404
always did
I'm not against trials, they'd make cool sidequests in future games if they ever return but I like the gym formula better

>>30320171
But at the same time the mini-boss trainers are better than the other gens trainers

Really, the only time normal trainers have ever been anything more than mindless fodder is when it was annoying shit like those Hypnosis/Confuse Ray Watchdogs

That ace trainer who used stealth rocks in conjunction with a red card is the first time I've ever thought "Holy shit I didn't see that coming" about a normal trainer. Then you had other ones using Z moves, items like flame orbs, etc.

>>30320119
You are greatly underestimating the leaders in other regions. Odd how you'd remember Falkner over Whitney, Jasmine, Clair, and Morty, all seen outside their gyms or interacting with the player in the main game, and every other gym leader interacting with each other after you beat it.

Hell, the simple thing of Chuck's wife standing outside the gym leader constantly and talking about how he never comes out to the point where she gives you his number as opposed to everyone else giving you personally was a great bit of lore, and Chuck didnt even have to leave his gym for it.

>>30319582
Not just X and Y, but ORAS too
Gen 6 isn't too horrendously bad, but holy shit did they set back so much progress that any of the other gens gave
They dropped alot of balls there

>>30320276
>Hell, the simple thing of Chuck's wife standing outside the gym leader constantly and talking about how he never comes out to the point where she gives you his number as opposed to everyone else giving you personally was a great bit of lore, and Chuck didnt even have to leave his gym for it.
And then they throw it out of the window completely by having him go to Kanto for a rematch.

>>30320316
>but ORAS too
Except ORAS gave nearly every leader out of gym encounters to give us a little more insight into their character and what they do with their time.

>>30320228
>Faba will keep using Hypnosis on a Comatose Komala in spite of having Psychic in its moveset
The AI is not considerably better in this game anon.

>>30320317
The only thing he's willing to leave his training for is more training. That made it a lot better

>>30320316
It's odd how ORAS gave a lot more personality to the evil teams, but ignored the Gym Leaders so hard.

>>30320211
Nah, the best thing about SM is that you aren't following a formula.

Gyms get boring as fuck when each time it's

>solve easy as fuck puzzles in a massive arena that makes no fucking sense to be in a tiny gym
>Fight some trainers which is basically just free XP since in most situations one super effective move will effectively sweep through the whole thing
>Listen to the gym leader say 3 lines of dialogue, beat them with the previous super effective move
>Teach someone on your team or your designated slave a shitty HM
>Repeat in the next town

The fire trial shits over every gym because it's actually entertaining and different

>>30320409
well what if the trials actually had some semblance of challenge

>>30320396
That's because evil teams actually matter in the story while 80% of gym leaders are just glorified badge dispensers?

>>30320230
N-No, shut up!! Quantity = Quality, r-right?!

>>30319747
>olivia

>>30320428
If you go in prepared, no gym or trial will be challenging

But some totems like Lurantis have more potential to be challenging than gyms.

>>30320428
they do if you don't use SE mons 5+ levels above the totem level

>>30320409
But SM had a formula of
>fight 3 wild pokemon
>fight the Totem

And in half of them, the wild battles werent even supposed to happen. They were dressed up in different ways, but the formula was still very present.

The fire trial was initially exiting to me because it was different, and they wasted it by just making it a joke.

>>30320448
and all change is instantly good

>>30320446
But people dont like the regions where they do that.

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>>30320469
Lurantis nearly fucked up my entire team

>>30320428
>Challenge
>Pokemon

Pick one. This game is hard only for babbies who don't know typing, and that's been a thing since the start. The reason Whitney (the most popular example of how previous games were "hard") was because not many people knew Normal's weakness was Fighting. Bring a Fighting type or use Fighting type moves and she's done.

Trials are a good ass change of pace and nothing proves that gyms are done than Unova having utilized them to their best followed by Kalos' absolute return to boring status quo.

I wonder if the people who legitimately miss gyms are the same that miss HMs.

Too much change for you guys?

They can stay gone for all I care. If Pokemon wasn't aimed at 6 year olds we could get some actual puzzles.

>>30320498
And gym leaders actually doing stuff is not the reason people don't like those games

>>30320571
HMs and Gyms are in no way equal, and saying "it's change!" doesnt mean everyone should like it. Festival Plaza was change

>>30320571

All I hope is that they make the Travel Gear look less goofy. The only pokemon it looked fitting on was Sharpeedo, since you were wearing jetski gear on a jetski

>>30319651
This
I haven't felt this much fun from a Pokémon game since the Gen 2 hype when I was a kid
Sun and Moon feels pact with things so far. From the get go going to the trainer school, fighting a humorous duo of skull grunts, fighting a trial captain and a kahuna, diverse land scape and memorable characters. and its all just the introduction here.
I can't say trails are superior to gyms on the idea alone, but if the next gen went back to gym leaders but just as much thought character and personality as sun and moon it would feel just as refreshing and fun.

>>30320385
You do know that after the first onemit shouldn't do that right?

>>30320649

It will; the AI has a real hard time playing around Comatose or Decoy

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>>30319404
I miss Gym Leaders, but I welcome the kahunas and trial captains. When they were announced, I was convinced that the removal of Gyms for an Orange Islands-esque challenge would make the game total gimmicky shit. But I feel they pulled it off really well while still being a little challenging. Making some of the trial captains (pretty sure that flying bitch is an ex captain) part of the Elite Four is also nice.

And how could you not like I fucking hate my job Nanu!?

Btw I really hope that's not fat joke about Gyms, OP.

>Pretty much no interesting design or gimmicks aside from a handful out of the dozens upon dozens
>Even the most challenging ultimately amount to a puzzle designed for children
>Leaders and standard trainers almost always use mono-type Pokemon which means they can get fucked by basically any team with no effort
>Gym leaders have no impact on anything outside their gyms, they don't have homes and 99% of them never even leave their gym at any point except to be a cameo two generations later
>The overwhelming majority of them have nothing to say except maybe a pun about their particular typing
Nah, don't miss them even a bit. Even the most boring of Captains is easily as interesting as the best gym leaders, and I had more trouble defeating some of the Totem Pokemon than I ever did with any gym.

>>30320642
>liking gen 2
Well we all can't have the privilege of playing decent RPGs of that time I guess.

>>30320467
>Olivine city
>Olivine is volcanic crystal.
>Jasmine is a former rock type trainer
>Olivia uses rock types.
>She has crystal jewelry and runs a jewelry store.
>Uses a crystal themed pokemon on both of her teams.
>Olivine is ultimately worthless, but it was mistaken for diamonds in Hawaii. Kinda like how everyone thought Olivia would be a slut, but she's forever alone.
Despest ore, etc.

>>30319875
I agree with Whitney being difficult for a young audience and naive players, that's fine though. But what really sucks is she's only 1 of 2 memorable gym battles in the region, the other being Clair because of her hissy fit. The rest of the leaders weren't really interesting. Like Pryce, if you had surf you could beat him ahead of time and he really not have a challenge to his battle.

>>30320679
Probably because it isn't technically counted as a status condition.

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>>30320682
>Gym leaders have no impact on anything outside their gyms

I agree with you except with the case of Gen V.

>>30320649
The AI will never take abilities into account and sometimes has a hard time taking type immunities into account, too.

Nekrozma was the easiest legendary I've ever caught, and that was because I threw out Greninja as my lead and he couldn't do shit to it besides Wring Out (which I would just heal off and go back to flinging pokeballs). First time in a while I've completed a game's dex without using my Master Ball.

>>30320682
half of that describes captains and the other half isnt true of gym leaders.

>>30320629
Both were played out mechanics that long since grew familiar and tiresome and were in dire need of change.

Gyms being reformatted into Trials and Totems (especially Totems) gave a sense of actually being in a different region as well as helped tie in to the storyline much better than even Gen V's (which used the gym format to its fullest.)

Gen VI is proof enough change was needed and I think its fair to say it more than worked for them.

(Festival Plaza is tedious but not impossible to navigate so its whatever for me.)

>>30319582
Unova and I say Johto are the only regions where the gym leaders ever had personality. I can't tell you one Gym leader on top of my head cause they were that forgetful yet I've memorized every trial captain and Kahuna. Because at least I gave a dam about them.

>>30319404
>Gyms
Press A 2-3 times to win
>Trials
Awesome concept and execution.

Lurantis calling a Castform to set up weather or applying pressure with Trumbeak to cover weaknesses. Wishiwashi calling on Alomomola to heal it to make up for it's ability. Just a couple of examples.

>>30320741
>and sometimes has a hard time taking type immunities into account, too.
Not him but you what? Unless you switch out or have a Mon that has something like protean they'll always use a move that's wither neutral or SE providing they have one.

>>30320211
Fuck that. People need to stop acting like Gyms were ever fun, 99% of the time it was a battle with one or two shit-tier mooks using underleveled and underevolved shitmons before a slightly harder mook that's still probably a few levels below you.

Kiawe's trial was more fun for me than pretty much any gym in any other generation. There's nothing fun about raping some poor fuckers Caterpie and Metapod collection before taking on a Scyther, especially when they all die in one hit from a super-effective move, don't use held items and don't even attempt to make proper use of their moveset. No gym in existence has made me feel fear like seeing Lurantis summon a fucking Castform during its Totem battle on my nuzlocke.

Trials aren't perfect and could use some work, but the piss easy battles with generic trainers using weak Pokemon in every gym wasn't something we should be returning to, and it's not something anybody in their right mind should be pining for.

>>30320765
The Gym formula was not tired and played out just because Gen 6 executed it badly. And especially because I expected a lot more from trials. It may be new, but that didnt stop me from thinking they werent that great. Ive had worst gym experiences than Alola, but Ive definitely also had better.

>>30320740
Yea but gen 5 had the worst gym leaders.

Until I watched that generations thing I literally forgot any of them existed except for Iris, Elesa, and Drayden.

>>30319404
No.

>>30319477
>Give Falkner a Noctowl
>Give Bugsy an Ariados or Scizor
>OK, but one more mon at least
>Give that fucker a Misdreavus please
>Come the fuck on, no Hitmontop¡
>Ok, but a Skarmory would be fine
>Replace the most fogettable gen1 mon with Sneasel
>Ok, guess she has Kingdra, this team is kinda fine I guess...

>>30320822
>Gyms
>Do a puzzle and press A 2-3 times to win
>>Trials
>press A 2-3 times to win
Ftfy.

>>30320851
>Not him but you what? Unless you switch out or have a Mon that has something like protean they'll always use a move that's wither neutral or SE providing they have one.
I Don't know the movesets of all the pokemon I've come across but so many of them keep using normal moves on decidueye and they should have non-normal moves

>>30320871
Can you really say that when Kalos exists? I honestly can't remember any of them beyond rollerskater furfag.

>>30320871
So I take it you never played BW/2 then.
Because nearly all of the leaders had active roles.

What if the games could have both? Go through Gyms to get the badges. Go through optional trials to get the Z-crystal.

Fuck no. I genuinely enjoy that most of the main characters you encounter have actual lives outside of their trial/kahuna duties like gen 5.

>>30320856
But outside Hiker David, Kiawe's trial was just a battle with one or two shit-tier mooks using underleveled shitmons. Followed by a good totem battle.

I dunno why people are suddenly pretending they always hated gyms now that something new came along, and that trials arent just a gussied up version of the exact same thing but with less battles.

>>30320909
There's brock 2, roller skates, clemont, pokekin

The E4 in both are literal whos but at least there was the flare agent in XY.

>>30320928
I didn't say they didn't have active roles, I said they were shit and extremely forgettable.

Also super fuck the simis.

>>30319404
Not really.

>>30320940
These are people who think that change means its automatically good and superior from the last.
What did you expect from them?.

>>30320851
Usually you're correct holy fucking shit it felt like every time I switched in a ghost somebody had a dark move waiting for me, but sometimes I see somebody trying to use ghosts on my Toucannon, or normals on my Misdreavus. And then there's the blatant roulette AIs that just pick one of their 4 moves at random, like the Nekrozma I mentioned. Fucker kept spamming Iron Defense and his Hazard even though he'd long reached full stacks of both, and using his signature move even though the last 3 times it didn't work.

The only reason Trials are decent is because of the Totem bosses. Nobody talks about the things before it (except maybe Kiawe's because it is funny) since it's boring shit.

Simple solution is to incorporate Trial mechanics into gyms. Make Gym leaders have their ace as powerful as a Totem boss, for example.

>>30319404
Meh. I consider the Z-Trainers the gym leaders of the game.

>>30319432
>le Stars meme
Kill yourself.

>>30320871
>gen 5 has worst gym leaders
>when electric gym girl exists
>when flying gym girl exists

mate...

Gen 7 is the first time I can legitimately name all the "boss" characters (captains/gym leaders) off the top of my head

>>30320940
Because its not about the fights themselves. In the end, all fights in Pokemon outside the designated post game areas are "have a type advantage, win". Its about style, execution, and writing which Sun and Moon has in spades and shit like XY or RBY sorely lacked.

They can stay in Gens 1-6, I personally don't care. A change was needed and I'm glad it finally happened. There was literally zero fun left in gyms with all there puzzles that lost there novelty really fast. At least each trial is unique and it requires a different task to do, not just one building and try and see where the hidden button is.

>>30321016
>>when flying gym girl exists
who
Plus I listed Elesa

>>30320909
I played both and i remember more kalos leaders than unova leaders, same for e4

>>30321037
Skyla ya silly dunce

Hell no. The only gyms that were any good was kantos and unovas. Every other gym in every game was garbage. Trials were great and funny

>>30321037
Skyla dumbass.
You know, the one who flew you in her personal plane to Lentimas?

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>>30321053
Oh right, her.

Well she's better than Mr. Texas and the mammy

>>30320084
Why is that hunk of shit saying anything?

>>30321072
>forgetting about the founder of the PWT
>forgetting about the person who converted a museum into a gym

>>30320940
>But outside Hiker David, Kiawe's trial was just a battle with one or two shit-tier mooks using underleveled shitmons
But there was an attempt to actually make it entertaining as well. While you still had to fight weaker Pokemon to progress it was a lot shorter than getting stuffed into a fight with Lasses and Bug Catchers using Metapods and whatnot while also having to navigate a dumb puzzle that's easily solved the second you walk into a room, or something similar.

>Followed by a good totem battle.
Which is the main point. Even the shittiest totem is leagues better than almost any gym leader because they attempt to cover their weaknesses and exploit their advantages. I've never even seen a gym leader swap out Pokemon to avoid getting OHKO'd, let alone use things like Sunny Day to attempt a sweep.

>I dunno why people are suddenly pretending they always hated gyms now that something new came along, and that trials arent just a gussied up version of the exact same thing but with less battles.
Because with Gamefreak it's always one step forward and three steps back, so to see them change gyms, a staple in the games for nearly twenty years, and change them for the better is shocking and good to see. If Gen 8 goes back to XY/ORAS tier gyms over refining the Trial format it'll be a massive wasted opportunity and a huge downgrade.

>>30321137
>I've never even seen a gym leader swap out Pokemon to avoid getting OHKO'd, let alone use things like Sunny Day to attempt a sweep.
Guzma's third fight the only time in the entire game I've seen someone swap out a pokemon.

>>30321137
>because they attempt to cover their weaknesses
Not really they just used ordinary strats but are often bolstered by a free all stats up.

>>30321045

Hmm...expect some name failures

Cilan, cress coon
lenora
eleza
bryce
brugh
Drayden/iris
Roxie
Marlon
Cheren
Clay

Grimsly
Shauntal
Marshal
Caitlin
Alder/Iris

Vs

Viola
Gant
Ramos
Olympia
Valiery
Wulfric
Clemont
Korrina

Malava
Seisbold
Drasna
Wilksome

Diantha

Huh...didn't think I'd remember all of them. Neat

>>30319477
>Only 4 Johto mons
>2 of them are just evoutions of Kanto Pokemon

>>30321206
That's more than 20 years of Gyms brought us.

I legitimately don't understand why autists expect Smogon tier fights in the the main storyline that kids are meant to be able to at least finish.

>>30321181
it actually happens frequently. I've seen in happen a bunch of times in the E4.

I don't know what triggers it though

>>30321248
Anon. Its the same thing just with a free stat up.

>>30321248
They want a "challenge" even do these games never have and never will be targeted to them.

>>30321137
Realistically, you CAN'T do Totem-esque fights with structured league style play.
>What? The Gym Leader gets to 2v1 me? Fuck that's unfair.
>The Gym Leader has a single boss mon, sure, but has an infinite supply of alternating supports for that boss? And I only get 6 mons max? Holy shit JAAAADGE.
It only really works as a wild encounter governed by some human figure.

>>30321220
Skyla
Chili

>>30321181
I never said everybody in SM swaps, I just said that swapping to avoid getting OHKO'd is the most simple and basic strategy in Pokemon battling. Gym leaders, the cream of the crop, can't even manage that. At least totems try to perform basic strategy or buff themselves rather than just spam their hardest hitting move from start to end.

>>30321206
I'd say Lurantis bypassing its waiting period for Solar Blade is covering for its weakness. If it didn't do this then it'd be easily two-shotted by any fire type. When I fought it it managed to one-shot my fire starter and put me on my back foot, which is more than any gym leader has ever done.

I'm not saying SM are top-tier battle simulators with masterful AI. I'm saying that trainer, including gym leader, battle AI has barely fucking advanced since generation 1 so it's nice to see some actual improvement for once. Most of the time if you want a real fight it's only in the postgame in places like the Maison where the game blatantly cheats and fudges its numbers to make things look more difficult than they are.

Gym leaders left you wanting more.
Trial Captains left you wanting off the islands.

>>30321025
But the style and execution for many trials werent that good. Say, Kiawe's trial. His Trial grounds is one empty clearing on top of a volcano you didnt explore, and a legitimately good puzzle fell apart as it just became a giant meme and waiting for the Totem to appear. My liking of Hiker David wasnt enough to get over my disappointment in the rest of it. The ghost tiral was just taking a few pics until you got to the good totem battle.

The trials lost all novelty for me when I realised they were all just going to be dicking around until the Totem shows up.

>>30321137
>Because with Gamefreak it's always one step forward and three steps back, so to see them change gyms, a staple in the games for nearly twenty years, and change them for the better is shocking and good to see.
But they werent changed for the better. They were just changed. It's cool to like Trials but the newfound hatred for gyms I see, like in this thread, looks really artificial.

> Lasses and Bug Catchers using Metapods and whatnot while also having to navigate a dumb puzzle that's easily solved the second you walk into a room, or something similar.
like this. since when did people hate gym puzzles? Hell, many of the trials have the exact same kind of puzzle, or no puzzle at all. Even the worst gym leaders often had good, fun puzzles in their gyms

>>30321248
No it isnt. We've had plenty of strategy like Pryce's Icy Wind+Rest+Sleep Talk or tate and Liza's insanely good team synergy, or they Drayden Gyms in Unova. You getting through the strategy easily doesnt mean it wasnt there.

I beat Totem Sazassle in one hit and it was easy as shit, but that doesnt mean whatever plan they had wasnt there

>>30321306
Then make every gym a double battle and give the leader a totem mon.

>>30321362
>Gym leaders left you wanting more.
because they were shit, yea

>>30321371
>Iris' Haxorus
That still caught me off guard.

>>30321362
Yeah, they left you want more because they were becoming so dry.

I'll never understand why gyms, of all things, became a staple a series. You can do almost any kind of adventure plot with the concept of Pokemon, but they kept going back to "go to 8 towns, defeat these 8 strong trainers, then go to the Elite Four". It's such a blatant excuse plot that I'm amazed nobody had the idea of changing it sooner.

Granted, SM's plot isn't that much different, but at least it's a step away from the gym formula.

>>30321383
I mean, I expected more from trials so I suppose I agree

>>30321372
That still doesn't stop that they get a nigh-infinite supply of support mons and you only get 6.

The only reason you don't get steamrolled in the earlygame is because the game hands you Brick Break 10 feet away from a totem that is either 2x or 4x weak to it, meaning you may not even SEE the Normal Totem's supports, and by the time you get to the next Totem you've probably got a decently-developed team with a number of decent coverages, even if you're a casual that goes straight for damage moves only.

>>30321383
>>30321408
I'm not against either of your points.
After the past six gens, going from them to Alola is like taking a permanent vacation to a third-world country.

>>30321482
>That still doesn't stop that they get a nigh-infinite supply of support mons and you only get 6.
Who said anything about letting them summon more Mon?

>>30321429
Its different enough. Kahunas especially were a great touch just cause of how they authenticated the Hawaiian esque experience. You're not just collecting arbitrary badges to fight an enclosed group of Elites, you're collecting Z-Crystals to help boost your own team up and then prove to the Kahunas how far you've come. It ties into the lore much nicer than "Oh whoops Lysandre is fea and a PokeGod is back. WHELP. Onto Snowbelle :D"

>>30321510
>Kill their limited supply of supports
>???
>...Wait, you're still here? How did you not already kill the boss?

>>30319404
Why were the johto leaders so fucking based?
>pretty challenging u turn spam tactics
>the one who I'm still convinced is a chick
>LITERAL shitter killer
>the edgelord with a cool design
>fucking chuck
>best girl
>coolest fucking old man in pokemon
>fem lance
Man I miss gyms

>>30321547
>you werent just collecting arbitrary crystals to fight some island boss, but collecting gym badges that signaled your strength to fight the elites of the whole region

I'm not arguing your point, but it's harder to agree with you when you are clearly favouring one with your language

>>30321576
Anon. All they need is three pokemon to be more formidable than your average totem since they won't take up a turn bringing out another mon.
Also you're acting like Totems could get more than two out.

>>30321619
They're based because your nostalgia is clouding your eyes from realising how basic their tactics and easy to deal with they were.

By far, they're one of the easiest sets of leaders next to the gen. 1 and 6 leaders.

>>30321621
Well lets see, one were objects of use that gave you an actual drive to complete the Trials for the reward (supplemented by the secondary stamps for balancing purposes) compared to eight objects of vanity that more or less were only used for balancing purposes.

I wonder why I enjoyed the former more...

>>30321282
well it really boils down to the fact that most trainers only have 2 pokemon max. so they can't switch into anything even if they wanted to.

fight against any trainer late-game with 5 pokemon or so and chances are pretty good you'll see a switch once

File: GSC Gym Battle.png (83KB, 762x696px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 762x696px

>>30319864
So pic related?

>>30321748
>compared to eight objects of vanity
You realise that thee used to give stat boosts to your Mon right?
Not to mention the other bonuses they had.

Island Trials were a fun break from the norm.
I expect Gyms to return in gen 8 (or remakes).

>>30321791
Just remove most of the Kanto Mon in their entirety.

The totem theme is hype though

>>30321748
You're making it even harder lol

The badges also gave stat boosts that didnt have to be incredibly flashy moves as well

>>30321803
>stat boosts only in GBC Gen 2

Wow. Stellar.

And who can forget other great boons like
>now you can use that garbage HM for obligatory travel/puzzles.

>>30321837
Now thats just dumb. The games are as much sequels as they are a new generation and are known for being extremely tied to the Kanto region.

>>30321738
I'm not saying they're great from a gameplay standpoint, hell after growing some common sense I could easily blaze through g/s/c or even the remakes.
Just from an aesthetic standpoint they're great characters, which would make them even better if the game wasn't scaled for levels and they had good mons. Hell even Clair was the first gym leader to outright REFUSE to accept her loss after you beat her

they also had some of the coolest fucking redesigns in their remakes

>>30321916
Its funny, you don't even realise that you've described the trials.

>>30321931
There's only three gym leaders in gen 2 that have and semblance of character.

Is this the thread where we all argue our opinions as fact until the thread gets archived? I hope I'm not late.

>>30321972
>"y-you're describing the captains/trials..."

How so? I'm only talking about the actual value of the Z-Crystals.

Its fine if you want Gyms (there's 6 generations for you to replay an probably a Sinnoh remake with them coming up) but trying to act like they weren't just an arbitrary system to use in the ever evolving games that slowly and surely outdated them more and more is just nostalgia talking.

>>30322016
This is simply not true

>>30322076
Nah this is the threat where GF shillsgo full denial mode.

>>30320895
That just proves that it shouldn't be ghost type.

>>30322107
Anon just think about what happens when a trial ends.

>Mon above X will now listen even traded ones
>you can now go here
>you can now do this
They're literally badges by a different name.

>>30322107
Every system is an arbitrary blockade between you and the end of the games. It's cool to like Trials, but you dont need to make them out to be more than they are

>anyone who disagrees is a nostalgiafag
>fake stuttering
It's a shame, the discussion was much better earlier in the thread.

>>30322188
That's the Stamps. Not the Crystals. And of course you NEED something like that for balancing purposes so that your lvl 100 Broizard from FireRed doesn't stomp on everything in sight .

I'm just saying having items of value like the crystals that at least can boost stat moves or give me dumb but satisfying flashy moves is better than just having the checkpoint marker.

>>30322285
>Not the Crystals.
They happen with the crystals too.
There are literally blockades and such you can't over come without them.

>>30322120
>he can't even spell "thread" right
And you expect others to take you serious ?

How it should be
>trials are the adventure part of the game
>you meet gym leaders who lead you to the trial, then they go back to their gym
>trials to be actual road blocks, they take up the space of exits from a zone
>meet the villains during this
>after you finish the trial part of the adventure, you go to all the gyms
>who now have pokemon of a similar level to each other and a much higher level than any other trainer pokemon
>so the gym leaders actually are leading pokemon trainers instead of having the first gym leader with level 15 mons
>then you go to pokemon league and elite 4, etc
>then a new game+ where you get to bring 6 pokemon back as level 1s or in eggs and go through the adventure again but much harder this time
>with your player character from the previous playthrough as champion

>>30322357
See what I mean?
Now you're not even talking about the game at all.

>>30322214
I can say the same to you about Gyms. They were cool, but were in dire need of change and had become a nuisance rather than the challenges you looked forward to. Don't even act like a running joke within Pokemon circles wasn't the formulaic nature of the games. At the very least, the trials allowed to tie in to the Aether storyline much neater than Gyms could have allowed.

>"You said this in a not-so-nice way. Therefore its irrelevant."

Aren't you a joy in debates.

>>30319432
will it also have Roothoot and those other creepy starter designs? Will Missingno gets a mega evolution?

>>30322331
Are you trying to tell me you can't continue the game without having beaten the bosses?

Why, yes, that is in fact what is called common sense.

>>30322392
I know what you're trying to do, but it's not gonna work, especially now how the thread is going. Might as well go back to /v/ (the fact that you use "shill" makes it a dead giveaway).

>>30319404
Yes i do

Trials feel more like side-quests baar the totem battles

Gyms had this feel of an oficial system which trials fail to do. Besides defeat three wold rattas/wishiwashis/fomantis' or watch a stupid dance with easy as fuck answers is weak. I've spend more time by going through the gyms (maybe except for eraly ones like Brock, Roark or Cheren) than the trials

Not bad idea, poor execution

>>30319477
None of these teams are bad except bugsy and maybe falkner

>>30322445
>"I had to waste more time in the arbitrary challenge/puzzle room rather than just enjoying the experience and move on, therefore its better."

>>30322401
I don't think you understand what we're trying to say here.

You're basically saying the formula is different despite the fact that it functions in the exact same way. Hell the fetch quests, quizzes and whatnot were present in each gen from Blaine's questions to the secret potion fetch quest. Even gen 6 had them.

>the trials allowed to tie in to the Aether storyline much neater than Gyms could have allowed.
Not really, you could just replace every mention of the trials with gym challenge an it would still make sense story wise.

>>30322508
Enjoy what? Defeating few more wild mons? I can do that anytime i want

>>30322401
It's not that it isnt nice, it's that people think muh shit and fake stuttering bolster or replace their argument

>I can say the same to you about Gyms.
Of course. Because they are both the same thing. That's the point.

>They were cool, but were in dire need of change and had become a nuisance rather than the challenges you looked forward to.
The poor execution of Gen 6's gyms
didnt mean the formula was getting stale, just that Gen 6 was shit.

If Trials came after HGSS or Gen 5's gyms, these threads wouldnt exist.

.At the very least, the trials allowed to tie in to the Aether storyline much neater than Gyms could have allowed.
Not really, everything about the Aether Storyline feels completely disconnected from everything else in a massive way outside the end. Kukui hearing about the fact that Ultra Wormholes are real and instantly going back to saying where the next trial was took me out of the game completely


>>30322508
stop using arbitrary, but only for the things you are arguing against. Or implying many gyms werent just enjoying an experience.

>>30321619
Why were the Johto leaders so fucking shit?
>The weakest leader in the entire series
>The one that uses two shitty bugs
>The one that bitches when you beat her and refuses to give you a badge
>The boring one
>The one with only 2 Pokemon despite being 5th
>The one who makes you jump through hoops to battle her
>The one that's actually one
>The OTHER gym leader that bitches when you beat her and refuses to give you the badge

>>30322804
ohhh i get it, you took what he said and reversed it! Clever! *brofist*

>>30319404
Gyms didn't have an age cap on its representatives, so yeah.

>>30319534
But there are games that do make Gym Leaders more involved to the game's narrative. GameFreak is just off-and-on with that shit.

>>30322804
>The weakest leader in the entire series
>The one that bitches when you beat her and refuses to give you a badge
>The one who makes you jump through hoops to battle her
nigga did you even play the games

>>30322955

Falkner is the weakest gym leader. There's a standard trainer in Roark's gym with a stronger team than Falker has.

>>30322955
Just because you were retarded as a kid doesn't mean it was hard
Also those last two actually happened.
Whitney and Claire both had a bitch fit and refused to hand over the badge.
Steel girl also made you go through the lighthouse and over the sea to get the cure for an ampharos before you could even challenge her.

>>30321791
>Jasmine
>Getting a normal Steelix on gold and a shiny on silver
This triggers me and i don't know why

>>30323145
Falkers is pretty shit, but then you put him next to Viola
Whitney didn't refuse, she's just a whiney bitch who couldn't stand losing, she still gives it to you after she stops
>Steel girl also made you go through the lighthouse and over the sea to get the cure for an ampharos before you could even challenge her
its called linking the gym to the story, every game has done this including SuMo

>>30323145
>people praise trial captains for having personality and being involved in their towns
>hate Whitney, Clair and Jasmine for doing the same

>>30319404
no

>>30323145
>>30322955

Level-wise, Falkner IS the weakest leader in the series

>>30319682
keep your non canon fangames in your special snowflake deviantart forums please

>>30322609
>gym trainers were in any way difficult

theres very little difference between a gym trainer and a wild battle, the only slightly difficult part was the leader

I'm not sure if I'd miss them at all if they were completely wiped away.

Totems are just generic boss battles that require no strategy compared to actual tough gym battles.

>>30323806
i think you got the two confused

>>30319477

>highest level gym in all of Johto barely squeezes in a Level 40 as her ace

Remember in Gen 1, how the end game all had 50's.
Hell. You even go to Kanto and they all had shit weaker than the pathetic Elite 4

>>30323806
>Catch/in game trade pokemon with SE stab that its usually found right before the gym.
>Spam SE move with stab.
Hardcore.

>>30323837
>Totems require strategy

Im sorry anon but all of you are retarded as you can just spam Screech or Metal Sound on the Totem then kill them in one hit.

>>30323837
>>30323806
They're both the same

>>30323897
Easiest way to make gym leaders harder is if the A.I starts to switch and predict your every move. For example if you send out a flying type it switchs to something that can one shot your pokemon.

>>30323710
But he's talking about unova, not sinnoh.

>>30323291
>Whitney didn't refuse
You do realise if someone throws a tantrum and doesn't give you something you've earned that's literally refusing to give it to you.

>>30323897
>he played on easy mode
That is also exactly how you beat Trials too.

>>30324049

Fucking Claire is even worse. Even after you beat her and earn the badge she makes you go off and take another test.

>>30323897
To be fair, the Totems are pretty similar

>Brick Break found during Ilima's Trial
>Can get a Grass-type 2 levels before evolution
in a trade not long before Lana's trial
>Lana's Water-type trial, in area full of Water-types precedes Kiawe's Fire-type trial
>Kiawe's Fire-type trial, in area full of Fire-types precedes Mallow's Grass-type trial
>Before Olivia Kahuna battle is Diglett Tunnel with Ground/Steel Diglett

>>30319404
i totally forgot this sexy set up, its silver and gold right?

Here is a simulation of what happens if Viola was actually difficult:

Notice how even with a flying and fire type you still get wrecked.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-485282262

My test teams also cant make it past her without a Fire or Flying type due to the Karrablast using Infestation then Fury Cutter, if the fails she switchs to Dwebble to troll any fag thinking fire or flying is gonna do shit. Water Type? Time to switch to Vivollon that can tank your weak ass water guns at this point in the game.

Prepare your anus for Infestation and Toxic combo as well with this simulation.

Seriously gym leaders are hard as fuck if you cant just spam super effective moves.

>>30323981
you can pretend to be funny as much as you want
people are just tired of your shitty meme region of unova, nobody asked for a second kanto

>>30324391
Now you're talking about Kalos.
Is this your first time with the series or something?

>>30324300
The AI would never play like that, retard.

>>30324300
too bad she specializes in butterfly and moths (and generally girly bugs or part flying including mega pinsir that now belongs to guzma) bug types and you have missed the theme

No, and I'm honestly amazed that th

>>30319404
No.

File: Top Lel.png (966KB, 1280x1280px) Image search: [Google]

966KB, 1280x1280px

>>30324450
Just realized she has similar butterfly/ moth Lele hair.

>>30324450
She has a butterfree and vivillon so totally girly and dwebble are cutey you take that back.
>>30324437
Exacty because you would never get past them if they played competently. Im about to show another simulation of a hard version of Elesa.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-485288064

>>30319404
No, but I'd take both gyms and HMs back in a heartbeat if they'd get rid of the quest markers and cutscenes.

>>30319921
ORAS could have fix it quite easily though, instead they didn't care to add new stuff to Roxanne or other leaders that could be seen as helpful when the evil team passed by or through their cities.

But hey, the Delta episode WAS something well done in terms of how to make use of the characters, and they made Hoenn less boring than it was in Gen III, so a little progress is a little progress.

Nothing can save Kalos though, reason why we moved to Alola.

>>30324554
Your posts are as dumb as you are. Reminder that AI battles let you use items.

>>30324544
it all comes together
it's obvious kanto, alola and kalos are specially connected in a way or another, olympia's stars and shit gym and city with that giant crystal will probably return in the new games either be sequel or not, maybe necrozma oriented

>>30319404
Trials are literally just extended gyms without buildings.

>Misread text at the start of the game
>Think there's going to be 7 trials per island
>Get excited that it's going to be a big game

Was disappointment.
I prefer gyms anyway. Fighting trainers is more interesting than boring fetch quests then fighting the 'boss'

>>30324649
Yes and only kids spam full restores in gym battles because they dont have the attention span to appreciate strategy but if you an adult well you just fucking suck.

Again here is hard version of Grant.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-485293591

That Aerodactly can oneshot any grass type in the game that isnt Ferroseed before Cyllage city if that fails he has Tyrunt to fuck up your Grass types even more.

http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/trialcaptains.shtml

you can fight Illima, Lana, and Mallow/Kiawe in a more traditional "gym battle" after you complete the island grand trial.

I like the concept behind Trials, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
>Lana's "fight a Pokemon, then follow it to the next location" puzzle
>Sophocles' "stare at a black screen for 5 minutes" puzzle (not to mention how do the Pokemon get IN the room, if you can't get OUT?)
>dat Dragon Trial
>Mina just fucking gives you her Z Crystal out of the blue
Ilima's was great, combining the Trainer's School battles with the Verdant Cavern puzzle, and Mallow's was... OK. Bit too fetchquesty, but at least it wasn't over in 5 minutes.

Acerola's would've been better if the Gastly and Haunter actually did some interesting poses, and the Thrifty Megamart could've benefited from being more of a maze, and less of a slightly winding path.

>>30319694
Fuck Unova, no they did not have fucking personalities. They had the shell of character archetypes but no actual character, no meaningful interaction with anyone. The end credits image with Hapu and Dudeweed speaks more about them than anything in Unova.

Fuck Sinnoh too. Maylene telling you that Candace is her friend does not display their friendship to me. Fuck off.

When people praise SM's writing, they are showing that, despite the writing remaining simplistic enough for children to get, they understand the importance of actual, meaningful interaction. Hau is better than every fag from XY because he contrasts with Gladion, his cheeriness is treated as an oddity, and has his own ambitions the game doesn't treat as an afterthought when talking to him.

When people don't get this, they are showing that they have autism and can only draw false equivalencies to other gens with shittier writing.

>>30319477
Falkner: Swap Pidgey with Hoothoot, or Pidgeot with Noctowl, maybe even both
Bugsy: Swap Metapod with Ledyba, Swap Kakuna with Ariados, maybe even swap Scyther with Heracross too
Whitney: Add Sentret, if you want to make the case of Clefairy becoming Fairy type swap it with Smearlge or something
Morty: Swap Gastly for Misdreavus, remove one Haunter
Chuck: Add Hitmontop
Olivia: Swap a Magnemite with Skarmory
Pryce: Swap Seel with Delibird, Swap Dewgong with Sneasel
Claire: Sucks to be her

>>30323356
>being involved in their towns involves being a bitch and outright refusing a rightfully earned award

>>30324994
Yes, when you go to Dragon's Den and her grandpa BTFO's her and she learns from you to be more humble, it's good.

>>30323906
>using Screech/Metal Sound on Totem Kommo-o
>killing Totem Mimikyu in one hit
Confirmed for not playing the fucking game.

Lol dude gym leaders are so easy XD

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-485299765

Here you are this is a hard version of Gardenia notice how I get wrecked even with two fucking flying types and a Fire Type.

You are free to try to fight her without spamming you super efffectives but that Grotile becomes unkillable after 3 curses since all you have is physical moves at this point in the game.

>>30323356
Whitney is a fucking five year old and Clair is and bitchy sore loser. What are you talking about?

>>30325095
Hey look a retard who doesnt know how Screech or Metal Sound works.

>>30324868
>Maylene telling you that Candace is her friend does not display their friendship to me
Yeah, this.
Gym Leaders in previous gens were not fleshed out at all. They just TOLD us they were fleshed out.
Knowing that Cilan runs a restaurant with his brothers doesn't add depth any more than Lt. Surge being a war vet does.

Depth would be Cilan showing up for the first few towns out on a delivery run, only to get pulled into Team Plasma's shenanigans. Then him showing up at the end to take down the Sages would actually make a lick of sense.

>>30324800
>mfw I used to think X boost items were stupid
>mfw I now realize all my mons have Swords Dance or Nasty Plot as their 5th move, and can get +2 defenses in a pinch to facetank unfair Totem battles

X ITEMS FOREVER

File: 1479013398017.jpg (97KB, 961x759px) Image search: [Google]

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>>30324868
>Fuck Unova, no they did not have fucking personalities. They had the shell of character archetypes but no actual character, no meaningful interaction with anyone. The end credits image with Hapu and Dudeweed speaks more about them than anything in Unova.

Did we even play the same game?

>>30325131
>SOUNDPROOF

>>30325075
>being denied an award that you rightfully earned is good because she got BTFO
>she likely did this to every fucking Trainer who defeated her
>same goes for Whitney
No. It's also against regulations to deny Trainers their Badges.

>skulking around Konikoni Town for the eviolite.
>walk into a house and to my surprise triggered a cutscene and fight with Lana
I don't want gyms to come back.

>>30325131
Do you suggest that people going into Morty's Gym in HG/SS should bring along a Pokemon with Dig? Totem Kommo-o has Soundproof, so unless you brought in something to circumvent it, then you cannot use Screech or Metal Sound at all. Actually do your research or fuck off.

>>30325245
I'm not saying Clair was good, I'm saying it was personality. Do you only like characters who are nice to you?

>>30325104
Whitney is literally a trainer who has the talent but not the maturity to be a gym leader, due to getting the role just because she's good, so yeah. Again, does personality only matter to you when they are complimenting the player?

>>30325131
hey look a retard who doesn't know how mimikyu's ability works

Those totem battles were the first time in ages ive actually lost a fight in the story mode for a pokemon game. Gyms were shit and always have been.

I miss the different styles for the gym themes in B2W2 that they got rid of in XY for no reason.

File: 1457784324463.jpg (15KB, 300x281px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 300x281px

>>30325099
>has to use a fanmade battle simulation version instead of the actual game's version to support his point
>which uses a team that she doesn't have at any point in any game
Simply epic my dude brofist

I understand not liking Trials, but why on earth would anyone want the stale, boring gym format back?
I doubt Totems/Trials will come back in Gen 8 but I hope to god there's some other form of progression that isn't gyms

>>30325452
Is this a good simulation of a totem?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-485309953

File: 1480357701209.png (108KB, 665x706px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 665x706px

>>30319477
At least their rematch teams in HGSS were pretty good.

File: 1473709619160.jpg (126KB, 530x530px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 530x530px

>>30325376
>it was personality to be a bitch and not only fail to do your fucking job but do the opposite of it
Do you like it when you go to the store and try to buy something but the clerk refuses to provide you service even when you're a paying customer and you didn't do anything wrong? After all, that's personality, and makes them more involved with their community!

>>30325510
because not everyone thinks they're stale and boring in general, just in some games.

>>30325521
>2v2
No. Stop doing this autistic shit.

>>30325152
Gen 5 is stunningly amateur in its writing. Only Colress comes close to being entertaining. The interaction with the water gym leader in BW2 where he talks to you about whether or not you think Team Plasma is bad makes me cringe into a little ball when I think of it.

The very core of BW1's conflict can't be properly committed to. They never should have addressed the issue of how ethical it is to capture Pokemon and make them fight. N's development through interacting with a silent protagonist doesn't work. A guy who's against Pokemon battling shouldn't be won over by battling you and realizing that animals knocking each other the fuck out is a great display of the bond between the human and beast.

Battling is basically the one way you can properly interact with the NPC's in the story, so compare Lillie and see how much better this fits.
>She's meek
>she's wary about battles, but she wants to be strong
>you show her you're strong by battling
>She admires you and works to better herself

This is admittedly simpler than tackling the moral grays of Pokemon itself, but it's still told much better. SM are written FOR children while BW, BW2, XY, and ORAS feel like they're written BY children.

>>30321220
I will not believe that you fucked up nearly half of them not on purpose.

>>30325521
Its custom you retard, not 2 v 2 and currently there is no way to simulate one mon against two.

>>30325596
I think they're saying they like how characters in a fictional world can be jerks like in real life, blending more realism into the world they are in.

>>30325572
>finally can use full teams and can draw from four generations
>dude Gengar lmao
>Diet Lance: Kingdra Edition
Close but not close enough

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>>30325596
I dont even get what you are trying to say anymore.
It's gone from wanting the characters to be more than non entities to wanting them to all be nice to you

No.

Fuck gyms.

Suck my dick.

Lol totem battles are so hard

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-485316306

Without recovery totems are fucked.

>>30325793
Is there something wrong? I think you're forgetting how totem's are 1v2.

>>30325865
I cant simulate anon but Ill try.

>>30325793
>random

Except Totems used mid-tier AI like the E4 and Champ

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>>30325793
>2V2
>POKEMON YOU WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE AT THAT OR ANY POINT IN THE GAME
>NOT EVEN THE RIGHT ENEMY TEAM
PLAY THE FUCKING GAME YOU NIGGER.

>>30325793
There are a lot of retarded posts in this thread but you really take the cake

>>30325718
I mean, the only other fully evolved ghost types were Banette, Spiritomb and Rotom.

Spiritomb is already used by Karen, but any of the other two would've been good.

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>>30325923
Calm down kiddo

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>>30325793
How come the trainer got to use two pokemon when a totem battle is 1v2?
Where was Lurantis' trumbeak?
Why did the trainer have pokemon you wouldn't have at the point you face Totem Lurantis?
What made you think this shit, being so incorrect, would make us think you were right?

This is the fucking MsPaint comic of Showdown. You practically made an I AM SILLY.

>>30325900
What I'm trying to say is that you act like totems are easy, but your only proof is a simulation that doesn't even work like the actual battles. Obviously 2v2 would be easier than 1v2.

>>30326045
I'LL CALM DOWN WHEN I'M DEAD

>>30324173
>Can get a Grass-type 2 levels before evolution
To be fair here, Bouncee isn't good against Wishiwashi because it's a physical-oriented attacker with a weak spread move against a very anti-physical team. Also garbage stats. Now Dry Skin Paras on the other hand totally laughs at Lana's trial.

>>30319534
I've always seen the trials as a more primitive version of gyms, but the lack of formality therein does quite a bit of worldbuilding in hindsight.

Though functionally, I don't see much difference between them. They're still checkpoints for gameplay in the same way gyms were. And the Kahuna Battles play the same role for the islands themselves, something that could only be done in a split region such as Alola. It's a really creative move on Game Freaks part; they changed up the entire formula without changing the foundational flow: Start collecting checkpoint markers, defeat an evil team, collect the final marker, then go for champion.

My only complaint is that the captains and Kahunas use Z-Crystals, actually functional items, as progress markers as opposed to badges, which exist exclusively as such.

>>30319458
I liked the Bug/Dark "Trial". That one felt the closest to a Gym while maintaining the unique aspects of the trial system.

>>30326299
>Bug/Dark "Trial"
What are you talking about? Fighting against Guzma and then Nanu?

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>>30319404
>using fan art for the johto gym leaders
>using worst trial captain for alola trial captains

>>30321791
>switching Miltank for any reason
Put Teddiursa for day and Sentret for night, drop & replace ratatta with tauros

>>30321837
>ghost gym
>misdreavus, misdreavus, misdreavus, and misdreavus
dont be retarded. they never cared about this in any game ever besides black/white 1, you fucking unovabortion.

>>30326061
Bulbapedia doesnt have all the availible mons in the locations yet so I went with a premade team.

>>30325793
>totem battles are easy because of this simulation where I cheat and use two Pokemon at once

What the fuck even is this post

How could you possibly think you were making a legitimate point with this simulation

>>30326764
>using bulbapedo
>ever

>>30319477
Johto had without a doubt the weakest main game.

>>30327096
just because the regions mons come from? Dont be retarded

>>30327096
>implying the main game wasn't just Kanto timeskip

Johto was the tutorial.

>>30320428
>Akala island is guaranteed to have a trial that is super effective to your starter
>Alolamons that are useful in defeating these trials either aren't obtainable yet or are incredibly hard to find
Anon...

>>30326962
I figured out how to sim two against one.

Use Splash on the mon that isnt facing the totem currently, if the totem and helper mon uses an AoE move use Protect on the inactive pokemon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-485347032

So did I get it right? Also thats a regular Lurantis I havent even stat amped it yet and its fucking hard as hell like in the game.

>>30325793
This should just be bannable. You just know this is reddit or underaged or both.

>>30320909
How can you forget old man grass trainer? He made GRASS puns, so unique!

I think it this time guys

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-485355579

This is a simulation of Alola Raticate battle, how did people even beat this thing?

yeh, they should have incorporated both tbqh

>>30327295

Kanto was a fucking cakewalk and empty as fuck.

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>>30327293
>shit level curve (tedious=/= hard)
>notice me senpai plot (all pokemon mainline plots aren't very good but this one is definitely the worst)
>gym leaders not only have shit pokemon but terrible personalities and events surrounding them (Whitney and Clair are notable ones)
>box legend events weren't very good (not XY-tier but still pretty meh) and didn't have any sort of role in the story, they're just sort of there and you go catch them which is imo boring

HGSSbabies look at these games with the biggest rose-tinted glasses.

>>30327879
Oh forgot to mention a big one, the region had one of the shittiest pokemon distributions in the series.

>>30327661
Why are you using a quilladin and a team of non alola pokemon? Theres literally no excuse for this.

>>30327879
man, HGSS bitchslapped me out of liking gen 2, the fucking level curve just made me think "what the fuck"

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>>30320519

>>30328351
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-485376369

Totem Salazzle is really hard.

Holy fuck

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublescustomgame-485380620

>>30319404
Yes, trials didn't wow me any.

>>30320007
But if you had a geodude or onix you shit on her. They take literally no damage from miltank and can easily kill her.

>>30319418
/thread

>>30320741
>Nekrozma was the easiest legendary I've ever caught

What does that have to do with anything? Wild Pokemon pick moves at random, unlike trainers. Always have.

You'll get a better response once the fanboys and novelty calm down.

Yes, the majority of the trials are dumb as fuck and boring.

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>>30319477
Bugsy still pisses me off because Metapod and Kakuna evolve into Butterfree and Beedrill respectively at lvl fucking 10. And you're main Pokemon should be at like lvl 12~15 by the time you get to the him. There's absolutely no reason for him to still be using those shit forms, what a fucking dipshit

gyms were way too hard honestly

>>30326384
>talks about trial captains
>turns around and posts a Kahuna

Play the game

>>30321619
They fucking suck.

Falkner: Our first gym leader of an exciting new region is using the Kanto Route 1 shitmons.

Bugsy: Why in the same generation that introduced Spinarak, Ledyba, Pineco, Yanma, Shuckle, and Heracross are we still fighting Kakuna and Metapod? I guess the Scyther's cool.

Whitney: She's fine, Miltank's a cool signature mon.

Morty: He's not actually a gym leader, he's a glorified Channeler from Red and Blue who doesn't know Misdreavus exists.

Chuck: Two Pokemon at the fifth gym, and neither is Heracross or Hitmontop.

Jasmine: Two level 30 Magnemites. Skarmory or Forretress definitely would have been appreciated, but at least she has a Steelix.

Pryce: OH BOY A FUCKING SEEL

Claire: She's fine.

So that's two good gym leaders out of eight. Falkner might be the shittiest early gym leader ever.

>>30319524
Half the fun of gyms is fighting exotic new Pokemon. Brock's signature Pokemon is a 28 foot long badass-looking rock snake that's a rare encounter in a cave much later in the game. Falkner's signature Pokemon is a bigger Pidgey, and you've already seen dozens of Pidgeys by the point you fight him.

>>30326618
Just ditch the Gengar, he's not fucking Agatha.

>>30319404
looked at all the teams for most of the old gyms
they were fucking shitty too
2-3 mons for most of the region with the last 2 or 3 leaders having 4 mons if you're lucky

S&M had more content via totems and captains which is pretty sad

I miss challenge mode