VGC17 General /vgc17/

Does this team have any glaring weaknesses?
http://pastebin.com/W3daWE1H

>>30303263
Alolan-Muk sets?

I assume people are using something like:
252 Hp / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk

>>30304642
That's what I've seen, since apparently Sassy Gunk Shot still picks up the OHKOs. Been thinking about trying it out myself.

>>30304370
From a quick glance it's got issues with Water, especially Gastrodon, Bulu aside. Speaking of...

>>30303263
use this for a quick assessment of defensive synergy on your team: https://richi3f.github.io/pokemon-team-planner/

While I'm at it, a few extra useful resources which ought to be added to OP:

http://pastebin.com/Dy5a5JYC -- unobtainable egg- and Sketch-moves pre-bank

http://imgur.com/gallery/WGOJ8 -- speed tier guide

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O-YoIdtQKX_MmIZJx4C3yBKXJ2FPhZvZj80KhXM_m_s/edit#gid=264316973 -- legal mon database

http://jake-white.github.io/VGC-Damage-Calculator -- self-explanatory

Rate my Team?

http://pastebin.com/LP0aGj8k

>>30304767
Why sassy over a neutral speed nature?

>>30304767
Which ability is best for A-Muk. I imagine Power of Alchemy to be kind of gimmicky, but it could be great if it copies your Tapu's terrain ability after the Terrain goes away/is set off, etc.

>>30305334
to counter trick room maybe?
not sure myself

>>30305376
Gluttony with figy berry.

>>30305383
Neutral lets you outspeed alolan muk which is everywhere and usually running brave or sassy itself.

To be honest trick room is kind of predictable and if your TR setter dies you better click that run button

>>30305442
Meant to say marowak, I'm tired

>>30305430
the buffed 50% heal berries that confuse you if you have the incorrect nature right?

>>30305222
Too dedicated to do well beyond low ladder, maybe mid if played very well. You have 3 Water weaknesses, and the two anti-Waters get absolutely annihilated by Wak, Arcanine and opposing Torkoals in sunny weather. You could use Oranguru for TR without bringing Torkoal, but the team preview screams doubling on Oranguru turn 1 and/or bringing an opposing TR setter, and you're going to get outsped quite a bit with no TR active apart from Krook.

>>30305498
Yes.

>>30305222
>>30305507
Actually, if you still want to keep the TR option on the table, Mimikyu might be a safer option (seeing as you have enough Ground-types to deal with Poison threatening Bulu anyway, so uninvested Psychic isn't a great loss). If you want to go for something memey, maybe bulky min speed Xurkitree for additional anti-Water support, as well as slow Volt Switch to get Oranguru in safely, and Discharge next to a Ground mon or Oranguru?

Also, nice trips

Mimikyu sets anyone?

I'm running:

Mimikyu
Adamant @ Life Orb
252hp/252attk/4 speed

Shadow sneak
Shadow claw
Play Rough
SD

I was thinking of switching Shadow Claw for Wood Hammer or T-wave/WoW for the surprise assist.

Mental Herb + TR or an Eject button set also seem like possibilities

File: Kiawe_Turtonator.png (158KB, 342x192px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 342x192px

I'm gonna playtest Turtonator, I feel he has potential right now

>X4 resist to Eruption
>Neutral vs Fairy unlike all other Dragons on the current meta
>Has Flash Cannon and Venoshock for fairies but just Overheating/Flamethrowering their asses is usually better
>Z-Meteor nuke
>Wide Guard to fuck with Torkoal even more
>Taunt, Roar or Dragon Tail to get TR-setters out
>Shell Trap is kinda gimmicky but could have use

Thoughts?

>>30305864
Shell trap is hot fucking garbage and you shouldn't even consider it. Turtonator is okay as a dedicated Torkoal counter but doesn't offer you much against rain. It'll be a surprise to some degree this early in the meta.

I wouldn't use Draconium-Z either. Firium is better because you can use the Z-fire move then overheat. Arcanine can run a similar set with burn up.

Where can i test VGC in 3ds?

could i get a list of allowed items and stuff?

>>30305959
How about Relicanth?

>x4 resist to Eruption
>Resist Hurricane
>Swift Swim to take advantage of rain + boost to Waterfall
>Buttfucks both setters with Rock stab
>Can even take advantage of the rare sand

Pretty much scrapping the bottom of the barrel here though.

>Where can i test VGC in 3ds?
Battle Spot. How is this even a question?

>Could i get a list of allowed items and stuff?
Read the damn thread before posting next time >>30305091

>>30306104
>>Where can i test VGC in 3ds?
>Battle Spot. How is this even a question?

went in and it told me my pokemon weren't allowed, because of items

>>30306140
Mega stones are banned.

>>30306140
Then look up the ruleset somewhere. You'd have found it 10 times in the time you've wasted here waiting to be spoonfed.

>>30306190
don't have any megas

>>30306196

s-sorry

>>30306225
The rules were fucked up for the first few days. Try again.
Also item clause is a thing.

>>30306225
Did it say specifically because of items? You probably have something badly injected somewhere if not.

>>30306244
will try, thanks

>>30306264
It said ''these pokemon cannot participate due to hold items" and showed my complete team with black pokeballs, i did inject the pokemon but the items i put on them where from battle tree and a sitrus berry

>>30306307
Holy shit why are you writing everything in spoilers.

Just tell us your items too.

>>30306104
It's kind of interesting desu, particularly because he'll be slower than most TR mons (Gigalith, Turtonator and Torkoal are still slower though) so he has utility in TR sun/sand, but with speed investment can be serviceably fast in rain, I like Relicanth a lot so I might be biased though.

Once TR is up though, Torkoal can OHKO with solar beam. Granted a lot of Torkoal users are running 2 fire moves, sludge bomb and protect which he's not afraid of at all and has head smash as the 'fuck you' button which isn't reduced by sun.

>tfw no kingdra

would have been literally perfect in this meta.

>>30306307
Check your met dates, met locations, and catch levels, and if you injected mons to be hatched, check the hatch date as well. The egg received date can less than the met date, but the met date cannot be less than the egg received date.

Trying to test injected teams on battle spot was such a hassle because of that shit.

>>30306355
>tfw no Ludicolo
It hurts. I have no idea how to use rain without him.

>>30305864
What do you think about running after you Comfey alongside turtonator?

I've never done doubles before, testing out this team on showdown. I want to try to make a team that doesn't rely on Tapus and UBs, I don't like either much aesthetically. Although I'm sure I'll have to cave and add Bulu or Lele in. I was originally using Parasect before Sableye. Tell me if it's completely retarded, I've played 23 games so far and haven't lost ranking up.
http://pastebin.com/Dy7uYMUv

>>30306319
S-sorry

it's Expert Belt, Life Orb, Leftovers, Light Clay, Sitrus Berry, Air Balloon

>>30306388

will try to edit them more, maybe i messed up something before injecting, however they all passed the pkhex legality check and they dates are still correct.

>>30306413
Got any replays?

File: 1471624775226.jpg (15KB, 447x335px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 447x335px

>>30303263
I made my team but it is based around Gigalith sand and it is not gaining much traction because Gigalith doesn't carry his weight.

The real star of the show is actually A-Dugtrio who KOs 90% of the metagame in Sand. Would it be worth the moveslot and the 1 turn of use to setup sandstorm manually on a more useful pokemon than gigalith, or should I give up on sand entirely, or should I give up on dugtrio entirely? Dugtrio still hits hard outside of sand, but clearly prefers to be in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QHjjXAhx3U
um

>>30306400
Comfey is a sleeper pokemon, it'll actually be one of the better support mons out there since it's fast outside of TR and has +3 priority on its important moves in TR.

Tapu Lele is the only major worry due to its priority negation but Bulu's terrain wins the weather war with her.

>>30306413
Looks decent but you should shed that mentality of not relying on stuff for arbitrary nonsensical reason. You won't get ahead like that.

Is Discharge working well for you though? The only other thing you have that is inmune to is is Marowak. Also, the high paralyze chance has zero synergy with your TR.

>>30306477
I'm completely baffled. I have no idea what could be wrong with your stuff. All I can say is try to inject them again or just catch them in-game and edit them to be double sure.

Which Pokemon are you using anyway?

File: 1461717350494.png (131KB, 262x288px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 262x288px

>>30303263
I'm getting cheaped out by setup teams at the bottom of the ladder. What is the counter to these teams? Is it to run my own gay setup, or is it a Fake Out or something?

I have a real problem with leading. I am always on the back foot when the game starts, my leads are really fucking weak. I assume there isn't a primer yet for vgc17, so can any kind persons offer me advice? Is there a formula to a good opening?

I lose half my games automatically when the enemy team has Follow Me + Z-Conversion Porygon-Z and he just sweeps my entire team in 4 turns. I don't know how to stop that.

>>30306540
Taunt.

>>30306510
Oh hey, what everyone called out would happen when they announced the timer crap. Who'd have thought it would happen?

>>30306540
>I lose half my games automatically when the enemy team has Follow Me + Z-Conversion Porygon-Z and he just sweeps my entire team in 4 turns. I don't know how to stop that.
Spread Moves.
Fake Out.
Taunt.
Set-up your own Pokemon.

>>30306484
Maybe an Anti-TR Mudsdale that can set sand?

Rock Slide, High Horsepower, Sandstorm, Protect?

Or a Probopass? You could also try a Focus Sash Galvanize A-Golem that could be an Anti-TR nuker with Explosion.

You could also try a Sand Veil Garchomp that can set sand

>>30306528

A-Raichu/Tapu Koko/Tapu Fini/A-Muk/Celesteela/Primarina i know it's not a good theme, but i needed to start somewhere

>>30306510
This is why you run a fire coverage move on Celesteela.

>>30306559
How is that a counter? status z-moves go through taunt, so z-conversion will still work. Also, porygon's field partner has follow me, so my taunt will never reach the porygon anyway. I use taunt, the enemy clefairy or some shit is taunted, oh well he doesn't care because he has a z-converted adaptability shadow baller on the field now.

>>30306477
Check Egg/Relearn Moves if they're hatched and check their balls as well. You've thrown one in a Cherish or Dream Ball. Also, check MET LEVELS, MET DATES, and MET LOCATIONS.

I honestly feel like that's what's stumped you because that stumped me for the longest.

>>30306761

all egg moves are legal/relearn moves are legal

their balls are all in UBs/Johto balls when they're possible to be, met dates, levels and locations are all legal.

>>30306589
>Fake Out.
Doesn't work because both enemies protect, then just setup like normal the next turn.

>Taunt.
Will never reach the z-conversion or setup pokemon due to redirection that is common in these cheese openings. Even if it does, the extreme evoboost or the z-conversion will still go through because of how z-status moves ignore taunt.

>Set-up your own Pokemon.
but you have to predict the enemy using a gay cheese boost opening, but if you don't and fail to bring your mirror-gay opening, you're already at a disadvantage and they will win cuz they are boosting faster.

>>30306783
Can you put them on the GTS?
Can you use them in the battle tree?

>>30306838

yes and yes

that team carried me through singles and till 26 super singles when i got fucked up by 2 crit surfs

I'm trying to decide what nature is best for a mixed attacking minior
I dont really want to give up on either defense stat but the other option is a neutral nature

>>30306783
Abilities?

Why is a starter in a UB or Johto ball? If you can't get into battle spot, it's something really simple.

>>30306853
Right, so they're not in the alola dex.

>>30306484
>>30306619
>Manual weather
Not worth it 99% of the time, specially if it is to abuse it yourself. The times I've seen manual weather is to counter other people weather and can't fit a weather setter somewhere in your team because otherwise your team will go to shit and if you are lucky there's something else in your team that coincidentally also benefits from the manual weather you are setting.

The thing with Dugtrio is that setting weather before Dugtrio attack if you wanna use it right away will be hard short of using something with Prankster which limits you to Murkrow, Sableye, Whimsicott and Klefki.

>>30306684
That's actually pretty decent, specially for a newbie. The only real critic I can give you would be Fini over Primarina.

>>30306739
>I use taunt, the enemy clefairy or some shit is taunted, oh well he doesn't care
Of course he'll care. He has a dead weight on his side now leaving you with one thing less to worry about. You also won't have to worry about Follow Me anymore which means you'll be able to hit the Porygon back without worry.

>oh well he doesn't care because he has a z-converted adaptability shadow baller on the field now.
Then pack something that doesn't die to the slightest breeze. Bulk is important and king in VGC. Pack priority too.

You know what's good? To mess with those set-ups? Trick Room. Guess what's fucking everywhere right now?

>>30306816
>but you have to predict the enemy
Is your opponent supposed to tell you what he's doing every turn so you can know what to do about it? Git gud lad. If your opponent strategy is gay because it keeps beating you then that makes you the king of homos considering he's buttfucking you every single time.

Learning how to deal with super basic set-up strats like this is one of the first things you should learn about. Let me guess, did people who ran BeatJustified wreck your shit too?

>>30306893

Abilities are legal, if pokemon cannot be in a ball other than the normal ball, then they're in that normal ball

>>30306902
>The only real critic I can give you would be Fini over Primarina.
Oh, my bad. I didn't notice you were running Fini too. Take Primarina out for something else, no idea why you are running both at the same time.

>>30306913
Alright then let me ask this question, which pokemon specifically are being shown as having problems?

>>30306913
No HA oranguru/passimian/alola starters, right?

>>30306944
all of them.

>>30306948
no HAs if not possible.


i appreciate the help ya'll, but im tired right now, will try again tomorrow.

>>30306986
What pokemon are you using?

>>30306480
Nope.
>>30306528
Yea, was planning to get rid of Discharge, although it has been working out surprisingly well with all of the water and flying types going around. I just like playing with Pokemon I like, I'm not even all that fond of Gyarados. I have never actually used him, he's just there to mentally intimidate people, not actually.

>>30306992
He said who here
>>30306684

>>30306986
If we're in the same thread tomorrow, post .pk7s of your mons to like Mega or something and I'll mess around with them.

>>30306512
Might be worth mentioning Bulu pairs up nicely with Celesteela, which isn't affected by Terrains and can thus be priority healed.

How do I get into VGC?
Everything I've found on the subject is an aggravating mix of obtuse and outdated

>>30307076
I mean specifically getting in as in participating in VGC tournaments

>>30307076
Nugget Bridge blogs are good sources of info.

>>30306902
>You know what's good? To mess with those set-ups? Trick Room. Guess what's fucking everywhere right now?

I was actually including trick room as one of the gay cheese openings that I'm having trouble with.

[Spoiler]Is minimize A-muk good [/spoiler]

>>30307128
Trick room is genuinely good, it's not a 'gay cheese opening'

>>30307159
No, it's a gay cheese opening. Most of those teams fall apart if you stop the trick room from going up. Having 1 weather changer and 1 fire resistant pokemon on your team stops pretty much all those gay 1-dimensional teams.

>>30307207
Hello newfriend

>>30307156
Since there's no good diversion users this meta, no.

>>30307128
You should just give up and stop playing considering you think of anything that's decently good "unfair". You just a total scrub who can't manage, and is unwilling, to get better and prefers to cry about how everything is unfair and people should stop using stuff that you can't deal with because you are bad at game so you can be able to deal with it.

>>30307207
I'd call this bait but from all your other posts I know you are being honest.

>It's super duper easy and simple to stop
>But I can't deal with it and it's completely wrecking my shit so people should stop using it because it's gay according to my arbitrary imaginary rules
Do you even read what you are writing?

Just kill yourself already.

>>30307269
>I'd call this bait but from all your other posts I know you are being honest.
I only made 1 post in this thread. The other guy whining about boosting openings is just a shitter.

Put tapu fini on your team, watch the TR fags crumble while you CM boost.

>>30307269
>Just kill yourself already.
That is a very rude thing to say. Please do not say rude things to people on the internet.

>>30307351
Apologies for confusing you with him.

>>30307373
Shut up faggot. Choke on a thousand cocks.

>>30307106
That's what I was referring to as outdated

>>30307391
>Shut up faggot. Choke on a thousand cocks.
MOM'S GONNA FREAK!

>>30306540
Aaron Zheng's just uploaded a primer, but I haven't gone through it, so I've no idea how much it discusses leads. It's probably still worth checking; he's maybe the most eloquent poketuber (and I hate to bundle him with most of that bunch) active.

>make a balanced team with a Trick Roomer just in case
>team works well together, good synergy
>Krookodile completely destroys it

Fuck, do I have to start over or just deal with it?

Tapu Lele/Garchomp/Xurkitree/Gyarados/Marowak/Trevenant

>>30307373
It's also rude to call things you don't like as "gay".

>>30307621
Seems salvageable.
Try replacing Xurkitree with Koko or trevenant with ice beam Porygon2

>>30307673
Thanks, I'll give them a try

>openings
>openings
>OPENINGS
can you fucking 1-3 premier challenge scrubs stop calling leads """openings"""

Does anyone have a good replacement for Koko? After playing a few games it really hasn't been doing anything for me. I was thinking Lele but I'm not sure what set to run.
http://pastebin.com/q5nqv5PC

>>30307924
They're synonyms

>>30307373
>>30307621
>>It's also rude to call things you don't like as "gay".
How new are you? Back to tumblr with you faggots.

Xurkitree or Celesteela on a rain grassy terrain team? A-Muk is already my Tapu killer

>top team on showdown is a disgusting freezehax team

How solid does this team comp sound?

Bulu/Pelliper/Xurkitree/Muk/Togedemaru/Gyarados

>>30307924
Surely Leads means the Pokémon you start the game sending out, while Openings refers to the first few turns of the game?

anyone know if 6's are completely gone in rating and free battle?

This seems a little odd

>>30308562
What is it?

How do you deal with shear cold spam teams? I just had 3 in a row hit me

>>30308692
runatan
He's running fucking snow cloak glaceon

>Mega stones are banned
literally why

Can I reset my rating in Battle Spot and how do I do it? I made it to 1650s but I'm getting a bit bored with this team and I want to start fresh with another.

>>30308986
To show off the new gimmick.

>>30308986
theyre artificial difficulty

Oh my fucking balls
Holy balls
Holy balls fuck
Holy fucking balls
Okay so, if I understand this correctly, Muk's HA is the same as Passimian's, right?
Ally faints, Muk gets its ability?

>>30307929
Got any replays?

>>30307929
Tapu Lele @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast/Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Psyshock
- Protect

>>30309451
Yes.

>>30309949
>LO Shedinja with Shadow Sneak
>Power of Alchemy Muk with an Air Balloon
>Shedinja kills itself with Shadow Sneak
>Muk now has Wonder Guard and has no weaknesses

>>30309972
Wonder guard doesn't work with Receiver/Power of Alchemy

How useful are Z-moves?

>>30309451
>Pair alolan Muk with alolan Golem
>Protect with Muk and have Golem use explosion
>Golem faints
>Galvanize Muk
It's certainly not the best idea but an electric return or explosion coming from Muk would certain come as quite the surprise.

Is it worth using Gyroball on Togedemaru? Also worth noting is that it would be on the same team as a Pelipper that knows tailwind

Opening.

:>)

Say, how do Z-moves interact with lightning rod?

>>30310481
As expected.

>>30310522
That doesn't answer my fucking question

Maybe I get excited easily, but this VGC looks very damn diverse this time around. A lot of pokémon have so many different sets I honestly have no idea what I'm facing against.
I got slowly wrecked by a support and snarl spamming Arcanine because I didn't bring Bulu thinking it was a heavy hitter.

Sorry if this is a dumb question. But why do I see top ranking players through replays run Muddy Water over Surf on Tapu Fini?

>>30310653
Surf hits your ally

>>30304767
>since apparently Sassy Gunk Shot still picks up the OHKO

I'm starting to see Tapu Leles with enough bulk to survive getting OHKO'd by A-Muk.

>>30310705
How?
252 Atk Alolan Muk Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Lele: 152-182 (85.8 - 102.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

>>30310765
Then I'm unlucky myself.
Half of the Leles I fight end up with a shiver of HP

>>30310765
>only 12.5% chance

I've recently been reading through and learning the layout of the source code for pokemon showdown.

I wrote some code to make the "refresh" button watching battles refresh and sort by elo in descending order.

Anyone have any requests for other quality of life mods/utilities? Or scraping data from replays?

>>30308578
That's the earlygame you fucking retard

Can someone tell me if I can use pokemons post bank?
Didn't play since '14

>>30311308
It's literally just the '14 meta but with alola dex instead of kalos dex

>>30311314
And also a shitload of legal legendaries

>>30311308
What do you mean? Once bank is released the rules stay the same, Alola dex only & caught in Alola only

>>30311314
>megas

>>30311308
No, the only thing that changes is unlocking certain egg moves.

>>30311314
>>30311490
>It's literally the '14 meta except it isn't.

>>30303263
How the fuck does a random japanese who just got the game have a fucking competitive team ?

>>30311614
Save editing, but how do you know someone just got the game?

Guys, how can we fit snow warning Ninetails into doubles meta? Not sure what kind of team should I put her in.

I find A-ninetails useful. Having snow warning actually resets the weather effects of the opposing team and give me access to aurora veil for team but that damage per turn from hail will also gradually harm my team.

>>30311314
No, it isn't. 14 was a rps with CharY, Kang, and Mawile. Don't talk shit if you don't know what it was like you fucking scrub.

>>30311638
It's fucking useless and you're stupid for even considering using that piece of shit

>>30306540
I had problems with those too so I'm running a Sash Gengar with Sludge Bomb, Protect, Taunt and Trick Room.

>>30311638
It's a good partner for stuff that gets shat on by Garchomp, but then again there's lots of other anti-chomp stuff with the Tapus

>>30311638
It's a nice pokemon to have in the back to counter opposing weather.

>>30311664
Do you have any reasoning for that?

>>30311623
He probably means all those countless people who play as a non costumized Chicken-chan/Male protag with basic pose.

>>30306484
>The real star of the show is actually A-Dugtrio who KOs 90% of the metagame in Sand.
Do you run LO or CB as well?

Because I have to slightly doubt that as I ran Sand Force Dugtrio in sand as well and I found it lacking in KO power even with the buff.

>>30306484
>Would it be worth the moveslot and the 1 turn of use to setup sandstorm manually on a more useful pokemon than gigalith

I'd actually try to test that, because right now everyone and their mom is running Torkoal so you have a high chance to either see your weather going away or having to switch on turn 1 into Gigalith and waste a turn anyway.

>>30311891
>Because I have to slightly doubt that as I ran Sand Force Dugtrio in sand as well and I found it lacking in KO power even with the buff.
that anon could have possibly over exaggerate his A-Dugtrio. I doubt that A-Dugtrio would have such power

>>30311891
Yeah he is bullshitting, even with Helping Hand it sucks dick, and dies to a sneeze. Gimmicky Tapu counter at best.

>>30310826
With full defensive investment that thing'd never hit back worth shit

>>30312621
And with 252 attack you lose the special defense gimmick muk has

Is decidueye useful in this VGC '17 meta? I've not seen anyone using it yet though.

>>30312740
Has is very limited niche, but in general isn't worth

What rating are you guys on showdown atm?

Please help me make Lurantis decent.

How is TR shaping up this vgc?
Is hailstorm team viable now?

>>30312916
Hail and TR are never not viable

>>30312858
>playing showdown

>>30312946
Always*

Good natures for Tapu koko and Celesteela ?

>>30312858
Nobody here plays, everybody just speculates and shits on other tactics.

>>30313007
Timid Koko, Celesteela can be many things

File: image.jpg (83KB, 1200x646px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 1200x646px

>>30303263
Just finished the main game. Played showdown/smogon doubles in the far past.

At this point I am thinking of pairing Koko with Peliper for instant rain/electric terrain setup. Or a team with Alolan Muk paired with Oranguru. Have Muk use Poison Gas/Venom Drench to weaken them, with Oranguru using instruct.

I'd imagine that -2 atk/sp.atk in one turn hurts. But might take too much setup.

>>30313189
Why bother doing that when Muk easily 2KOs most shit or at worst cripples stuff with knockoff if you really want him to be offensive?

>>30313093
B-But Wolfe said physical Koko ws the way to go

>>30313220
where is your proof that muk confirm KO's most things?

>>30313269
2KO, not full KO

>>30313289
So he is trash, I see.

I wanna get into VGC. Is there a youtuber with current gameplay videos of VGC17? (Not pure guide videos)

What moves are best for alolan Muk?

>>30313392
Poison Jab
Knockoff
Protect
Rock Slide/Taunt/Whatever you want you'll never use this move anyway
Also, makes me sad Type: Null’s movepool sucks monkey dick, it'd make a better Porygon 2 otherwise.

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>>30313220
Because I enjoy Stall tactics.
Then again, I played competitive ages ago, and been mostly a casual fag since then. I enjoyed Sun so much that it kinda rekindled my passion for Pokemon.

They were just wild ideas Anon, hadn't even thought about EV spreads and such yet.

That being said, I could still run Knock Off on that Muk. Making them lose their items in combination with dropping their stats sounds fun.


The other idea with Pelipper and Koko sounds good in my head too. Rain+Electric terrain sounds like a dangerous combo. 100% acc thunders and Hurricanes. Rain boosted scald.

But as I said, just ideas. Need to do a little more research on VGC meta since I am still kinda used to how I used to play smogon stuff back in the day.

>>30313452
>The other idea with Pelipper and Koko sounds good in my head too. Rain+Electric terrain sounds like a dangerous combo. 100% acc thunders and Hurricanes. Rain boosted scald.


Many people are already using that idea and it works good if you know what you're doing. But as every popular set, be prepared to face countless teams that got built while keeping you in check

>>30313452
>>30313505
What would be good sets for a Pelipper and Koko pair?

>>30313586
I honestly have no idea on this one, everytime I meet Koko it has a different set. Depends on what you want him to do.

What do you guys think about Kommo-o? Viable?

How do we check tapu koko & Pelipper teams?

Cloud Nine Drampa in trick room

Yes or no?

>>30313701
Assault Vest Tapu Bulu
Run the calcs, it shits on them. You can either go wood hammer for the OHKO on peli or horn leech, 2HKO but peli can't kill you back anymore with hurricane even if he is max sp atk modest. Koko dies to both moves. Obviously run something else to check both, as brave bird + hurricane kills you, but bulu is faster than peli so that should not happen.

>>30313798
Not the guy who asked the question, but what nature? Or having +Atk, +Def, +SpD works either way?

How do Terrains work? I know they don't affect flying and levitate, but do they boost their moves? Would Celesteela's seed bomb be stronger under grassy terrain?

>>30313872
You can do a simple 252 252 Adamant, but you can also invest more in sp def or use careful I like to keep Adamant with at least 100 sp def to avoid the 2HKO from life orb modest lele, you can invest a bit more to guarantee that you survive a 2HKO from peli after grassy terrain and horn leech but you can just outspeed and kill with wood hammer

>>30314028
Thanks. Makes a good stepping-off point. Haven't gone to catch the Tapus and UBs yet, been eyeing these discussions to see what I should aim for meta-wise

>>30311664
There's people considering Relicanth and Ghost Pika, this thread is full of dummies.

>>30314138
Keep in mind that most of the damage Tapu Bulu receives is straight up nullified by Horn Leech and Grassy Terrain. 100 Sp. Def ensures that the best Tapu Lele can do is 49%, however that is mostly required for switch ins when you want to change terrain against her, as even if Tapu Lele could deal a max of 53%, she would still fail to 2HKO Bulu.

I'm saying this to say you don't really need those EVs in Sp. Def, but it is safer to carry them if Tapu Lele gets some bullshit max roll twice in a roll, or a Sp. Def drop. So if you want to toy around your EVs to better fit your team you can. You want to nuke, go max attack, you want to outspeed with Tail Wind, 44 Speed allows you to outspeed Tapu Koko and Aerodactyl, 144 Speed Pheromosa and most Scarf users in the meta, you lose some power like this, but it mostly applies to Horn Leech recovery, as you don't lose any particular OHKO you get with Wood Hammer. Play with the EVs and make them fit your team.

>>30314723
That's what I'm figuring. Start with the right nature, play around with the EVs as I see fit.

>>30313724
fuck off

>>30314723
just checked the calcs, assault vested adamant bulu with max hp and 100 special def tanks hits like a truck

>Pollen Puff
Is every team gonna have a Ribombee now?

How important is it to have taunt on my team?

>>30315718
Reasonably, I mean status moves aren't rare.

Is Oranguru viable?

>>30315948
>Ladder being dominated by Torkoal/Oranguru
>Even Tapu's are playing second fiddle

You tell me.

>>30315968
>Orangutan bro is being used
it feels so good that a pokemon i love isn't trash.

I haven't kept up with '17, all the Oranguru meme bullshit I've worked with has been with Megas and Xerneas.

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>>30315968
How do you beat the Smeargle + Oranguru trick room opening?

>>30315968
What's the standard Oranguru team? I would like to make a team with the based Librarian.

>>30316158
learn to love the slow meta

>>30316227
There isn't a fixed setup but the main template people are working from is.

Oranguru w/Telepathy@Mental Herb/Sitrus Berry
252HP, 252def
Relaxed, 0 speed IV
-Trick Room
-Protect
-Instruct
-Psychic

Torkoal w/Drought
252HP, 252S.atk
Quiet, 0 speed IV
-Heat Wave
-Eruption
-Protect
-Sludge Bomb

>People can't deal with simple Trick Room leads
Jesus, I knew /vp/ was shit at competitive but this is another level. Did you all start playing with SM or what?

>>30316465
To be fair, inner focus plus mental herb and a follow me user is pretty difficult to deal with directly. Especially if the follow me user is Smeargle and can also wide guard if it predicts a spread move to get around follow me.

>>30316465
Realistically Oranguru really is a damn good TR setter.

Depending on what variation you run, it'll be immune to most volatile status or immune to flinch, or just too fat to kill and Instruct is one hell of a scary support move.

I'm just counting down the days before some asshole starts making Instruct Smeargle also a thing, that is another can of worms I expect to have to deal with soon enough.

>>30316158
wide guard or fake out onto oranguru's target.

he will get the trick room up but if you prevent his damage or take him down to single-target, who cares?

>>30316432
what item does the torkoal hold?

>>30316227
Oranguru + Follow Me Sashed Smeargle so you can set up TR

Torkoal

Some other slowfag

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Xurkitree any good?

I see he is on a few top teams. He probably needs tailwind support though.

>>30316943
I've seen Firium Z thrown around in discussions about it already.

Where are the best places to EV train?

>>30317051
Man that is horse shit. That gives a great single target focus attack to target down some of the counters to the strategy.

How the fuck does it do so much damage? It only has 85 SpA. I guess that's the power of BP 150 moves.

>>30317097
It's almost like it's boosted by Drought or something.

>>30316465
Mimikyu is a granted TR, you literally can't stop the guy from setting up.

>>30317120
bro I watched a replay where he swept in the rain with torkoal. it does high damage no matter what.

>>30317153
Unless you put it to sleep or taunt it.

>>30316465
It's not "/vp/", it's the entire showdown vgc17 ladder right now that doesn't know how to use wide guard.

Also you're fucking shit yourself if you think you can prevent TR from going up. It is nearly impossible and involves a guessing game even when you specifically purpose your team to stop Smeargle-Oranguru openings. It's best to just assume TR will go up and have a way to win under TR.

>>30317202
I'm not going to bother bringing a status effect user in a meta where there's a Fini every three players.
And mental herb.

>>30316943
It's not fixed, use your own discretion.

>>30317038
Personal opinion is no.

As for why he's successful even though I say it isn't good, you have to be a total fucking idiot not to at least score a few wins with something that powerful. If something is powerful enough even a idiot can be slightly dangerous.

Against anyone worth a shit however, it's just another generic mono elec you can see it's basically a weaker slower LO Jolteon. Any successful elec counter ever will work against it which in this meta is pretty important. Elec is arguably one of the top offensive types this gen so most people will have one.

>>30317153
So what? Mimikyu itself is shit inside TR, it's too fast no matter how you build it to make use of TR itself, hardly learns any other utility moves and is too weak to hurt anything. You're trading a slot for a one time guaranteed TR in exchange for loss of utility/offense.

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>>30317153
>What is double targeting
>What is multi-hit moves
>What is Taunt
>What is putting it sleep
>What is setting up your Trick Room on their Trick Room
>What is phasing moves

Stop making excuses for you being bad.

>>30317219
>Also you're fucking shit yourself if you think you can prevent TR from going up. It is nearly impossible
Shitter detected. I'm not saying it is literally possible to stop it every single time but if they set it up on your face without giving a shit 100% of the time then there's a problem with you.

>and involves a guessing game even when you specifically purpose your team to stop Smeargle-Oranguru openings.
Wow, it's almost like Pokemon is a prediction game or something!

>It's best to just assume TR will go up and have a way to win under TR.
First good thing you've said. This is a good mentality to have. Still, doesn't mean you should just simply give up trying to stop the TR unless that's part of your strategy.

>>30317328
>that defensive backpedaling
>that smug anime reaction image

insecurity on display.

I've won.

>>30317328
name a multi hit move that kills mimikyu in 1 turn

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>>30317640
>Oh shit I just got blown the fuck out what can I do to save face?
>I-I know if I dismiss his post by commenting on his choice of reaction image I'll win the argument! I'm so clever and smart!

You sound like the insecure one here if an smug anime girl triggers you that badly. Here's another one for good measure. Will you be going back your university play-doh safe-space area now or will actually try to git gud at game?

>>30303263
I'm loving Oranguru+Shiinotic right now. Instruct+Spore in Trick Room is legitimately amazing.

>>30317659
Mold breaker > disguise

>>30317866
Sends out tapu fini and A-ninetails

>>30317007
Would Lanturn be a good idea to pair with these guys? Volt absorb helps against electric attacks and it can kill pokemon that could harm torkoal electrick for water and water for ground. It's also pretty slow

>>30318502
Drought gimps it's water STAB, probably not that great, I think even TBolt would do more damage under those circumstances.

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>ctrl+f Toucannon
>0 replies

Sometimes luck is on my side http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-485144108

>>30318672
Is that surprising?

>>30316465
Everyone on here is shit, that's just fact. Don't forget that /vp/ got raped by a Honchkrow.

Wait, so can you actually breed ash-greninja with the battle bond ability? I see people saying they have natures other than Hardy on their BBninja, but I was under the impression that it wasn't the case.

>>30319215
The nature of the BBninja you get is entirely random fuckwit. Mine is gentle

>>30319236
All I ever get is Hardy. Does it change when you transfer it? Do you know if BB is even breedable?

>>30318672
I was thinking of using a choice scarf on it or running it with Stamina Mudsdale to give it a +5 def but I just get the feeling it won't work well.

Porygon-2
Garchomp
A-Muk
A-Persian
Tapu Bulu

What do you suggest for the last mon?

>>30319292
Nature is random when transfered, and you can reset for it.
IVs are set though to 20/31/20/31/20/31, and it is pre EV trained as it is in the demo

How are people building toxapex? I want to try to fit haze for all the z-conversion and xtreme evoboost teams but this thing has serious 4mss

>>30320290
Defensive pivot.
Baneful B
Recover
Scald
Haze/venomdrench/venoshock

>>30320322
Is recover even worth it? I was thinking about dropping it for wide guard or toxic and using regenerator and black sludge to recover

What are some good options against TR teams??

>>30320177
>>30320177
Are we going to be allowed to breed for BB postbank?

>>30320395
Yeah wide guard is also used. But in fourth. Recover gives staying power when needed

>>30318925
It's actually not terrible as a tailwinder, but it's not really that good either.

How are people using Celesteela? Any particular EVs and movesets running around? I feel like I have to run Arcanine, Xurkitree or Tapu Koko in literally every team just for her, but I don't know if they are running countermeasures or something.

What's a good set for AV Bulu? Wood hammer horn leech megahorn rockslide?

Does anyone have the video of Verlisify where he has states his opinion on clone dittos/hacked mons then pretends his opinions are facts?

>>30321612
I'm running Relaxed with 252 hp/spd and leftovers. Moveset is Heavy Slam, Flamethrower, Leech Seed and Protect. I love how she can soak up even SE hits pretty nicely, it gets even better when I have Aurora Veil up. My Marowak is pretty good against those three mons you mentioned that threaten Celesteela.

>>30321880
I'd swap Megahorn for Zen Headbutt, bug isn't that good for coverage right now, and mons that it does hit like psychics will just die to Wood Hammer anyway (well, probably. I run Choice Band but terrain boost is probably enough to get a lot of OHKOs anyway). Not that psychic coverage seems that good either, but it was handy for the time it let me OHKO a Toxapex.

>>30303263
Am I fucked if I dont want to use a UB in this meta?

>>30320625
No

>>30322174
You're fine without UBs. The Tapus are the prominent pokes in the meta from what i can tell

>>30322018
Oh, you mean the one where he exaggerates an aspect of the Pokémon games or community, assures the viewer that he is the ultimate expert on Pokémon and claims that all big-name VGC players other than himself lol are scum, then discusses objectively untrue Pokémon facts?
Yeah, I know the one.

>>30322174
Meta hasn't fully stabilized, but from other discussion here, you'll probably be fine.
It's more about Oranguru more than anything else right now.

>>30322174
You'll be giving yourself a handicap, but right now you could probably get away with it without too much trouble. I'm finding them a pain in the ass to soft reset right now too.

>>30322174
Not really, UBs aren't too common at high level play other than one or two. That being said, if a UB fits your team and helps you win, you should use it. So far the only one that's been very beneficial to my team is Celesteela, which also seems like the best one overall.

>>30322261
I found it, my friend watched one of his videos now he thinks I'm getting banned for using using a 6iv ditto so I'm trying to show him why the guy is full of bullshit.

>>30322174
Ironically enough UBs are getting rarer the more time passes.
They're good but you don't have to have them in your team.
The tapus on the other side, maybe you should pick one since they are very good core support, but you can also avoid them if you know what you're doing.

>>30322622
But it's true, Nintendo keep track of every Pokémon that's bred and caught in every game and there are several bits of data that even PKhex can't understand which are used for hack checking. Also it's literally against US law to use hacked Pokémon.

>>30322830
>you now remember dream ball aegislash winning a regional

>>30322851
TPCI then contracted Ray Rizzo to do paid commentary work for them.
But *this* time they're clamping down, right guys? ... Right?

>>30322915
lol nobody cares
those who inject are only saving time, but not much more than those who can just SR (because breeding takes like, 2 hours lol) and test on showdown before live tournaments.

>>30322915
I know you are being sarcastic, but there is proof right in this thread, of some guy unable to play battle spot with its seemingly legit pkhexed team. People on /vp/ are still today making threads said they just got banned as well. It's clear as water that Nintendo can detect more than what people think in Gen 7. And soon enough heads are gonna roll.

How stupid is the idea of running a calm marvel scale Milotic with flame orb?

>>30323138
It's the Pokémon that single handedly straight up counters the entire Intimidate squad of this VGC season. There are a billion times better walls in the game.

>>30323066
>People on /vp/ are still today making threads said they just got banned as well.
Where?

>>30323363
This one just today >>30316474
There were a few more just this week.

>>30323138
Flame Orb would probably end up hurting it more than helping it, not to mention losing the Competitive boosts.
If you want another bulky water, try Lapras or Vaporeon. They're very similar to Milotic but without the ability.

>>30323492
>trade banned
nigga probably disconnected too many times

>>30322915
I'm still mad, specially since the judges that time went literally "oh well, just because it's him! Otherwise..".
I inject pokémon myself, but if someone fucks up it must get disqualified, even if it's a shitty ball, that's what you sign in for when cheating.

http://pastebin.com/zp5R2BRW

I need help with my last pokemon

>>30323066
I'm gonna call bs because I just got into a rated battle with a fully injected team

>>30324314
He's trolling or he's verlis.

>>30323066
>>30324314

i was the anon from last night, seems to be fine now, i can battle online found out trick room fucked me completely

What are some strategies against Trick Room?

>>30324509
Use Ctrl + F and search "Trick Room". Few ideas already discussed in this thread.

>>30324314
Pokémon communities are a constant stream of people claiming their friend's dad's dog's sister got banned for [x] reason.
>You downloaded Pokémon Go before it was out! You're going to get banned!
>You got a hacked Ditto from Wonder Trade! You're going to get banned!
>You used PKhex! You're going to get banned!
>You downloaded a ROM onto a non-internet-connected hacked 3DS! You're going to get banned!
>You used a team of six shinies online! You're going to get banned!
>You turned off your DS instead of forfeiting! You're going to get banned!

That last one did actually happen in Gen 5 though.

>>30323860
Is Togedemaru working for you? Besides Fake Out and Lightningrod it seems pretty awful.
I'd even say Pikachu might be better there. Or Marowak, with your sixth Pokémon being a FO user.

viability of a max speed skill link something using fury attack on mudsdale first turn? gimmicks

>>30324731
I've seen it work, but Mudsdale is weak to predominantly special types, so it still ends up losing to the same things.

>>30324731
defensive setup is usually a bad idea no matter what. Mudsdale is strong, but not something to base a stragey off.

>>30324731
Poliwag used Water Gun

>>30324782
85 is nothing to scoff at, especially if you slap an assault vest on it. It takes a full power grass knot to take it down reliably.

>>30324825
Nobody is doubting Mudsdale's bulk. We're doubting how often the extra Defense boost would come in useful.

>>30324683
I haven't tried it yet, I'm thinking Xurkitree as my last pokemon, but I don't know what set to use

>>30325098
I'm using modest maxSpatk with electrium-Z, some speed and HP investment
thunderbolt/grass knot/hp ice/protect
it cleans up nicely but needs lots of support.

>>30325346
>Not sure if this is really the best thread for advice on that context
It isn't.

>>30325346
Not really the best place. This is for VGC discussion, which Megas are not allowed for VGC 2017

>>30325436
Alright, nevermind then.

>>30324683
Just had a few battles, Toge, Gyara, and Xurk don't seem to be doing much. Bulu Muk and Pelipper are great, but those other 3...

Scrub here to the competitive scene. Is Toxic Spikes a better trap than Stealth Rocks? I have a decent Toxapex and have an idea to poison the enemy team and stall it out. Don't care how gay or cancer that is so whatever.

Also what is a good dragon to use this time round? Dragoom and Salamance still good or should I move onto Komomomomomomo-mo?

>>30325346
>Mega-Metagross

I know literally nothing about the Doubles/Singles format man, this is a VGC thread.

>>30325794
>stall
>in VGC
you may wanna lurk moar

>>30325794
VGC is a 4vs4 doubles format, which means there's less switching than Smogon's 6vs6 singles format. Entry hazards are far worse here.
I don't know if Competitive Pokémon General is still a thing, but that's what you're looking for.

>>30305091

This should be in the OP of every thread from now on

>>30325794
You don't use sneaky pebbles or similars here, the game is too fast for that.

If you really want to stall get a Celesteela, her endgame is stalling stuff to death. Once you remove stuff that damages her the player will rater kill itself than continue struggling to death.

It's basically a new Ferro.

>>30325794
entry hazards are dogshit in doubles anon. So is Kommo-o, so is Dragonite. Salamence isn't very good either.

>>30325853
>>30325886
>>30325960
>>30325984


Shit my bad guys. It was more a question for general online play but still being a decent team. Thanks for telling me!

>>30323066
The only way you would get banned is if you inject something retarded like mons with egg moves that require pokebank.

>>30326025
Even then, you're more likely to have your team rejected by Battle Spot or be disqualified from the individual tournament if it's an actual VGC tournament.
Nobody has ever been banned from VGC as a whole for using an illegal team, you only get banned for trying to smash DSs, steal from the merchandise shop or shitting in a hotel.

>>30326129
wasn't there some Spanish VGC team that started a literal shit flinging contest in a hotel lobby?

>>30326180
Ruben won UK 2012 Nationals, celebrated by having a party with his Catalonion chums in the hotel that night, which included betting one another to shit in a bag and hand it to the receptionist. The receptionist called the police and they were thrown out of the hotel, Ruben bragged about it on Smogon.
A few news sites reported on it, Ruben got banned from VGC.
He kept posting on Nugget Bridge and became known for defending diconnecting in WiFi tournaments (which at the time didn't give you a loss or the other person a win), which resulted in him getting banned from WiFi tournaments and also from Nugget Bridge

Now he's a male stripper

that's not a joke

http://pastebin.com/DXVUj5wS

Testing this out. Any thoughts?

http://pastebin.com/w5EUcC17

I need help. This team cannot win against Trick Room

>>30326310
He is definitely /ourguy/

talking about important things, will this be the first VGC year in which Trick Room is actually the dominant strategy?

Choice Band 252HP 252Spe Fould Play spamming A-Persian

It sounds like a showderp meme but this thing is being so goddamn useful to my team it's hilarious.

It brings stuff like lead Gyarados to 2% HP.

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This was literally the first Oranguru I met, didn't notice it was shiny until I met a second one that was white. I kinda wanna make a team around it, and it's pretty strong right?

Why do people run Pelipper over Politoed?
Does Hurricane really makes the difference despite Politoed being bulkier?

>>30328048
Pelipper also gets Tailwind

>>30328048
Hurricane + water has better coverage and Tailwind gives speed control.

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>>30327918
Oranguru is indeed one of the most popular Pokémon in the metagame right now. I won't say best, since I think a lot of people are using it for gimmicks, but it is certainly worthwhile.

You're probably going to play casually so won't care too much, but I just calc'd your IVs out of curiosity and they are unbelievably shit

>>30328178
Hyper training is a thing now though, so it doesn't matter

>>30328178
>and they are unbelievably shit
Thank god for Hyper Training this gen huh?

>>30328178
Well, can't win 'em all, but >>30328223 yeah.

>stalled a guy with Friend Guard Clefairy and Oranguru Trick Room

hah

>>30328283
Post replay, I've always been interested in friend guard shenanigans.

>>30328376

it's 3ds only though.

5G3W-WWWW-WWWX-VVCN

also i think i need to move certain items and moves

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-485393466

So is trick room a meme or what?

Thanks to the guy that posted the core of this team earlier in the thread btw. I ended up swapping togedemaru for Marowak, but that might be a mistake.

Has anyone tested Dhelmise yet? The stats and movepool look nice, it has a trapping 80BP move and triple STAB backed by 131 base attack.
Sure it has a fuckton of weaknesses but there should be a way around it like rain for starters.

>>30329510
I've tried it out; it's tanky, but that's about it. It doesn't help that alolan marowak is so common.

>>30327454
Is that Fur coat or Tech?
I feel like making a retarded looking kitty

so im running basic specs tapu, should i leave it like Discharge, Volt Switch, Thunderbolt and Dazzling Gleam? or do you recommend another move or Hidden Power?

how do i make the most cancer stall team

If someone is running Gigalith what likely build would they use?

>>30330025
clefairy eevee smeargle ribombee oricorio and filler

>>30330231
what bp eevee/smeargle?

So with Nihilego what HP would be best to run it with? I've been thinking about Ground but a second opinion would be nice

I really want to run mimikyu as a TR setter.

I really want to run mimikyu as a TR setter. Would that work?

How does heavy slam work? I see on damage calcs that the damage goes up if I increase Celesteela's attack but isn't based weight?

>>30331617
It'll work, but it won't do very much once TR is up

>>30331743
What's a better TR setter then? Oranguru or Comfey

>>30326790
Bump?

>>30331921
oranguru comfey trevenant and slowking