Gentlemen, how do we fix this mess?

>>30283888
Make Hail AT LEAST as competent as the other weather effects.

There's no reason for Hail to not get a buff. Especially now, since they went and made Slush Rush and Aurora Veil.

also a move with a high chance of freezing would be nice

>>30283888
Make ice supereffective against Fire, because the ice would melt and turn back into water

Make ice beam and blizard freeze the user if they are not ice type.

>>30283888
Make it resist water, dark, and grass and give it immunity to poison.

Make ice moves which are exclusive to ice pokemon. Flash freeze was a good addition but it's bs that one of the strongest ice moves (ice beam) can be learned by nearly any water pokemon which are better in every way

Make ice super effective against fire
Make it resist flying
Make it immune to water

remove rock weakness
all it needs is no rock weakness

>>30283888
why don't they have a freeze status move? it should exist even with low accuracy. spore exists and sleep status is just as crippling and there are counters to freeze like scald

>>30283888
Stop making slow bulky ice types.

Stop giving every water type ice beam for starters

>>30283888
Immune to water
Neutral to rock
Super effective against fighting but keeps its fighting weakness

Resist Flying and Water, Hail doesn't affect Fire- and Steel-types, it buffs Ice-types Special Attack by 20%

Hail, or at least Blizzspam and A-Ninetales/Abomasnow, are now buffed.

>>30284014
>nerfing Dark, Grass, and Poison

Give Ice resistance to Ground, Dragon, and Flying
Give Ice a Defense bonus in Hail
Give Ice types an innate +20 chance to Freeze opponents with Ice-type moves

>>30283888
>+Resistances: Ground and Fairy
Those types need a nerf since that's the most effective coverage combo currently. Only having 3 resistances also keeps Ice as the glass canon type I assume it was meant to be.

>+passive Defense in a Hailstorm similar to Rock's Sp. Def
Most moves that are super effective against Ice are Physical. This would be a pretty significant buff to Snow Warning users making Hail teams more plausible.

>Water loses its Resistance to Ice
If Ice is supposed to be a glass canon typing, then it doesn't do its job very well since unbreakable bulky Water and Steel types are everywhere.

>>30284067
But what's the first thing you think of when you think ice; a massive glacier moving at an extremely slow pace.

It already has the best eevee <3

>>30284333
The first thing i think of is icicles breaking off overhangs.. falling on someones head and killing them.

Ice needs major speed and attack buffs

>>30284523
Ah yes, the new entry hazard, stealth icicles.

>>30284067
With GF being hellbent on forcing Ice be a poor man's Steel type (including Rock), I don't think that's an option anymore. Crabominable and Aurora Veil should be dead giveaways as to how they want us to play with Ice types.

>>30284325
How is it that GF has yet to do this?
You broke that shit down the in the span of minutes but somehow GameFreak hasn't been able to wrap their collect head around this for decades? How is this fair?!

>>30283888
TURN HIGH CRIT RATIO
BUFF ATTACK AND SP. ATTACKS
ICE TYPE SHOULD BE SLOW BUT EFFECTIVE

FUCK ICE BULKS WHAT ARE YOU THINKING GF

make it resistant to normal, water, and flying.

>>30284029
but fire melts ice

nerf Stealth Rocks. Make it do the same damage no matter what type you are

>>30284781
The point of Stealth Rocks was to punish those immune to spikes, it should deal damage based off if the mon is grounded or not if anything.

>>30283888
It needs to resist something, anything.

>>30284067
I used to think this, and still do to a degree, but even making fast ice types doesn't fix the core problem. Adding ice typing to literally any Pokemon instantly makes it worse, because it opens up a cornucopia of new weaknesses to the point that any STAB becomes worthless. It's the only type in the game I can think of that only acts as a liability and nothing else.

>>30284657
>ICE TYPE SHOULD BE SLOW BUT EFFECTIVE
Like a glacier?

>>30284050
>sleep status is just as crippling and there are counters to freeze like scald
Sleep status lasts, in the worst case scenario, 3 turns.
Freeze status can last indefinitely if you are not lucky.
Also, not everything runs moves that can thaw.

resist water
that's all it needs

Just make it so not only is it immune to water but water moves heal them.

Water hits ice.. freezes and adds more ice to whatever it hit.

Do this and ice becomes one of the best types in the game. Regardless of weakness.

>>30284817
> but even making fast ice types doesn't fix the core problem. Adding ice typing to literally any Pokemon instantly makes it worse, because it opens up a cornucopia of new weaknesses to the point that any STAB becomes worthless. It's the only type in the game I can think of that only acts as a liability and nothing else
Weavile would disagree. It's still missing an actual Ability, but it's literally the only Ice-type with a proper sweeper build here defined as >100 base stats in Speed and at least one offense fuck off Arceus doesn't count and you know it and it's damn good at what it does. It would also be much worse as a mono-Dark-type. I would argue that any fast mono-Electric-type would also benefit immensely from becoming an Ice-type as well for that delicious STAB BoltBeam.
>>30285037
If you do that you'd probably have to make Ice weak to Scald and Steam Eruption specifically, since hot water still melts ice.

File: SnowLeopard.jpg (55KB, 630x327px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 630x327px

Type Chart changes
>Fix it's relation with Water. Either remove Water's resistance to Ice or make Ice resistant to Water as well. Both even.
>Have Ice resist Flying (some of the most popular attacks of the type like Blizzard, Icy Wind and Frost Breath all use wind in some capacity) and Ground.

New Pokemon designs
>Mooses, reindeer, snowy owls, white rabbits, artic wolves, lynx, snow leopard Pokemon. All could be moderately to highly fast, some hitting like a truck
>Special Attackers made of snow, or linked to northern lights
>Pokemon based on myths of cold countries, like Norse mythology or old Canadian and Russian legends

Hail
>Have the damages be influenced by type resistance
>Give Ice types some inherent stat boost, ability or not.
>Have it increase the chance of Freezing

All in all, I think that GF needs to make the Ice type more viable defensively. Just creating new fast attackers won't do it. You need to make the Pokemon we have already have some use first.

>>30283888
Ice:
Resist Water
Resist Flying

Grass:
Neutral Damage to and from Flying

Rock:
Resist Rock

There, everything's fixed.

>>30284747
ice turns into water, water beats ice
ice win everytime

File: intredasting.jpg (44KB, 604x512px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 604x512px

>>30284747
and melted ice turns into water

>>30285235
Isn't delibird a snowy owl?

Blizzard now becomes a weather move that replaces hail. It slows all none ice types while increasing the defense of all ice types by 1 stage respectively.

All ice type pokemon that land a critical hit with an ice move now freeze the target but in return frost breath no longer crits but has a chance to freeze.

New ability that acts like water compaction and water absorb. Any mon with this ability is immune to water and gets their defense (or attack) rasied by 1 stage.

Some ideas there.

>>30283888
New Ice properties:
Resists Ground and Water
Super-effective against Ground
Neutral against Steel and Water

Hail now increases the chance of freezing.
Snow Cloak now instead of raising evasion in Hail, reduces damage taken from Fire-type attacks.

>>30285747
Whoops, I meant Rock, not Ground. Ice easily breaks Rock from the inside out, as easily as Rock breaks Ice.

>>30285482
Delibird is a penguin.

>if an ice move hits a Pokemon with an flame based ability, the attack becomes SE
>Physical fire moves from a fire types onto an ice type cause contact damage to the attacker
>Ice Pokemon take 1/16th damage in sunny day but get a 1.5x speed boost (they're melting, basically)
>1.25x def/sdef in hail
>All ice moves now have a 10% freeze chance and a 5% deep freeze chance
>Freeze is now the same as burn, but halves speed instead of attack
>Deep freeze is the same as current freeze
>Several new abilities that cause freeze/deep freeze upon contact
>SE to bug
>Priority ice moves with a 30% freeze chance
>Ice cosmic power that also increases weight (adding layers of ice)
Basically, if they're gonna keep ice as bulky monsters then they should be able to work around it

>>30284020
>better in every way

I had no idea that Water gets STAB from Ice type moves and was a better Offensive type than Ice.

>>30284014
This is never going to happen. So I don't know why people keep asking for this shit. Ice is cold and harsh, yet brittle. This is exemplified perfectly. Game Freak just needs to stop making Ice POKEMON shit.

>>30284817
>It needs to resist something, anything.
It already resists something: itself.

actually introducing some pokemon of that type would be a start

I had a similar idea to the freeze/deep freeze that you wrote about there.

What I went with was:
Chilled - for 2-5 turns, any pokemon with this status effect has their speed lowered by two stages. Freeze has a higher chance of activating on pokemon with this status effect.

>>30285875
>>30286093

Ohh forgot to quote you.

>>30283956
So Water should be SE against Fire

After taking super effective damage from fire types, their ice typing becomes water.

>>30286093
>>30286146
Maybe halve speed in hail instead of the def/sdef boost I suggested?

>>30283888
make its weather as competent as the rest of them and add resistances to water and flying. thats literally it

Merge Aurora Veil's effect into hail.

File: 1475933873811.gif (752KB, 500x367px) Image search: [Google]

752KB, 500x367px

Let's all be honest here.

The problem isn't Ice as a type even though it is kinda lack-luster.

The problem is with whoever at GF designs Ice Pokemon.
They make all these slow, defensive 'ice tanks' and Ice simply doesn't have the resistances (i.e. NONE) to be a "tank". That's why they're all shit.
And the ice pokemon they did make that aren't slow and tanky?
>Weavile: OU 3 gens and counting
>Mamoswine: OU 3 gens and counting
>Frosslass: kinda trash. Oh well... 2 outa 3 aint bad

Yeah the pebble weakness sucks but fire and bug still make due because they have the pokemon and stats to shine through.

>>30283925
Making hail provide some sort of innate boost to ice-types would be nice.

>>30286407
We need ice type pebbles. That'll fix ice.

>>30286407
Well they did make Crabominable, who isn't tanky... He's just slow.

So close and yet so far.

>>30284523
The first thing that came to mind when you said that was an ice-type that has low speed but an ability that gives a priority boost to the first move it uses after switching in.

>>30285875
>Immunity to burn, will-o-wisp fails
>Moves that are explicitly wind based (gust, hurricane, silver wind, etc) become dual type attacks in hail
>Higher chance of freezing/deep freezing water types

>>30283888
Make it SE Rock

>>30283888

Make more offensive ice types.
give ice a flying resistant
make hail good. Auroral Veil should be buffed to 8 turns normally seeing as only ice types learn it and it also has to be hailling for it to activate. Hail should give a defense boost like hos sandstorm does sp.def for rocks. also psychics should be immune to hail damage as well.

>>30284325
this

>>30285875
>>SE to bug

FUCK OFF!

>>30284014
actually, make it resist all types and super effective against all types.

Make Ice strong against Psychic.
Boom, every Ice type is now viable.

Water resist

Remove Steel weakness

>Add resistances to water and ground.
>Remove weakness to Fighting.

Ice is a fine offensive type but removing one of its many weaknesses and giving it a few resistances will make bulky ice types worth a damn.

>>30287066
Neutral to bug is goddamn stupid and you know it.

File: i dont have a name for it.png (298KB, 1224x880px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 1224x880px

>>30285235

I had a dumb idea for an ice pokemon with a gimmicky ability

>Starts off made out of solid ice, pure ice type
>Once hit by an ice type move or receives a burn, melts and becomes Water/Ice, losing status effects in the process
>Can turn back into its solid ice form via being hit with an ice move or a freeze status, returning to mono ice type

Pic related, it's a shitty doodle of my idea. It'd be speedy regardless of form, but ice form could have significantly stronger defenses

Remove a weakness, maybe rock-type or fighting-type
Give it resistance to fairy-type
Remove water-type resistance to ice-type

>>30287120
A physical ice attack that is SE to psychic. It targets their head and caused brain freeze.

>>30286461
That reminds me. I've been thinking about a fire entry hazard called charcoal. Automatically burns a target that touches the ground. Obviously fire types are immune.

>>30283888
Make hail boost defense like sandstorm boosts special defense.

>>30283888
>Resists Flying, Fairy, and Bug
>Ice is now neutral against Water
>Ice types get 1.5x Def during Hail
>Sheer Cold is no longer an OHKO move, but a 50% chance to Freeze an opponent
>Freeze Dry now has 80 Power
>Freeze now only lasts for 3 turns at the max, but a Pokemon can thaw themselves out with Fire type moves

>>30287975
>Resists Bug
FUCK OFF Bug is shit enough already.
Make it resist Ground instead.

>>30288031
Alright, it resists Flying, Ground, and Fairy.

I said Bug because as far as I know bugs are usually gone in the winter so they probably can't handle the cold well.

>>30283888
Remove Fighting Weakness.
It's now fixed.

>>30284031
Drop a rock against Ice. The Ice will break.

>>30288179
Ever tried punching a block of ice without gloves? That shit hurts! Why would Fighting typed be super effective against Ice anyways?

>>30288631
Ever tried punching a slab of granite without gloves? That shit hurts! Why would Fighting be super effective against Rock anyways?
Ever tried punching a steel wall without gloves? That shit hurts! Why would Fighting be super effective against Steel anyways?

>>30288631
>>30288746
Ever tried punching bugs? That shit is easy! Why would Fighting not be effective against Bug types?
Ever tried punching birds? That shit is easy! Why would Fighting not be effective against Bug types?

>>30289202
>Ever tried punching birds? That shit is easy!
Have YOU ever tried punching a bird? Those fuckers fly the fuck away before you can hit them every time.

>>30284747
Not really, the ice/water is a bad conductor of heat.

>>30286153
Yes, and so should Ice. Fire should still do 2x to Ice though.

I can't argue against the rock typing. But I can argue against the steel typing.

We can bend metal and make dents in with raw strength.

I'm suprised that neither Bite nor Crunch or any of the Fang moves work against Ice.

>>30288746
Fighting beats Steel because it's a common strongman act to bend a metal bar. As for Rock...

Karate-chopping through cinder blocks. Need I say more?

Fighting beats Ice because if it can break cinder blocks with a chop, it can obviously break ice blocks with even LESS effort.

>>30289202
You put bug twice

>>30289245
Ever had a Goose attack you without anything at your disposal but your bare fists? It's scary as fuck!

>>30289202
>*Flying*

File: An ancient evil that no man should face.png (220KB, 1000x866px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 1000x866px

>>30289448
Man fuck geese. If we ever get a goose Pokemon I want it banned from AG.

Stop making shitty ice types.

>>30289487
>When it fucking hisses
No animal as scared the living dayshit out of me in my life!

>>30286461
Black Ice.
It makes a pokemon flinch automatically, as well as dealing 10 damage on switching-in.

Make Aurora Veil Hails natural benefit to Ice Types.

>>30284612
That wouldn't be a bad addition, actually. I mean, I fucking despise stealth rocks, but stealth icicles could work. Ice is supereffective against a lot of things.

>>30283888
>one or two more resistances
>hail increases the chance of freezing

and have these overly complex frozen changes that i think would be cool but probably would break the status too much
>ATK/Sp.ATK/SPD debuff on the thawing turn if they're not thawed by an item/move
>frozen pokemon have sharply/drastically increased defensive stats and take further reduced damage from water/ice type moves
>fire and fighting type moves ignore the DEF/SPD increases
>thaw chance increases by a flat 40% each turn (so a pokemon can be frozen for a maximum of three turns)
>switching in a frozen pokemon infers a 100% thaw chance on their next turn

>>30288511
Drop a rock on a flower. It will crush the flower.

>>30291273
Drop a rock on a fairy. It will crush the fairy.

Neutral to fighting, resists fairy.

Immediately a solid number of ice types become more viable.

Ice needs resistances against Water and Dragon and Cryogonal needs a better movepool. That's it.

>>30283888
neutrality to fighting and steel