So was the Lillie/Nihilego resemblance just a red herring?

it actually had more to do with lusamine being crazy and dressing her own daughter as a UB.

But yea, that set aside from the viewer perspective yes it was a red herring, everyone assumed UB's could change into humans before the game came out.

>>30224524
Lusamine dolled Lillie up to look like Nihilego because she's a crazy bitch.

>>30224524
Yes, the actual explanation for it is in all likelihood that Lusamine was so obsessed with the Ultra Beasts she dressed herself and her children like them. She's dressed as Beauty, Lillie as Symbiont and assuming Gladion's torn clothes are the ones he left with, he's Absorption.

Lillie says she only wore clothes her mother chose for her which could be taken with her obsession with Nihilego to imply that she was dressing her up as one. It's pretty damn subtle though. Honestly if Lillie was only dressed up as a Nihilego, I don't understand why Nihilego has the random trait of acting like a little girl because it's totally irrelevant to anything otherwise.

>>30224565
the first 10 mins of the game lillie asks you if you dress yourself or if your parents dress you, that was the first context clue that you should have picked up.

>>30224524
Not really a red herring just so much as a bunch of game '''''theorists''''' circlejerking the same crackpot headcanon.

The truth is actually even weirder, as the anons above described

Honestly I thought the UBs were doing to be alternate dimension versions of the Aether foundation people.
I thought every important NPC would get an alternate UB monster that you had to fight

>>30224599
>the first 10 mins of the game lillie asks you if you dress yourself or if your parents dress you
...Holy shit. Holy SHIT.

>>30224593
Because its native behaviors make it more desirable as a daughter than Lillie

>>30224593

>I don't understand why Nihilego has the random trait of acting like a little girl because it's totally irrelevant to anything otherwise.

I think Nihilego deliberately acts vulnerable and in need of protection and everyone interprets it as acting like a young girl.

Course it's all an act. It just managed to really influence Lusamine due to her own motherly instincts

>>30224602
>Reveal Lillie, say she has an important role in the story
>Reveal UB-01 and hte Utlra Beasts, UB-01 clearly resembles Lillie (which has bee nestablished as 100% intentional) and is said to be a shapeshifters sometimes behave like a young girl
>LOL FUCKING IDIOT FANBASE "THEORISTS" SO STUPID
Worse, in-game it's neither shown to be a shapeshifter unless combining with Lusamine somehow counts as the one singular instance, nor is the little girl decoy shown to have any relevance either.

>>30224599
Youre forgetting most people on this board have autism and can't pick up on context/social cues.

>>30224723
That's actually really clever from a storymaking perspective.

>>30224799
It's not really that clever. In fact it's kind of nonsensical. It acts like a little girl. Presumably so does Lillie. She isn't shown to act out of the norm. In fact it was actually the opposite before the game's story. I'm pretty sure that post was a joke.

>>30224723
It also does it to lure in potential hosts, it is a parasite.

>>30224869
It was.

>>30224599
>the first 10 minutes
More like second hour

>>30224876
That doesn't make sense. the ultra beasts obviously aren't native the human world. they're even supposed to be based on invasive species or something. if the humans are not normal hosts for them why would they develop loli mimicry.

Not a red herring, just completely symbolic.
Lusamine drove away her daughter, trying to obtain that Ultrabeast. It's a 'replacement' to Lillie.

>>30224949
They are another world's Pokemon, we can assume that humans live there as well. Even if they don't, looking harmless would be a good strategy to lure in a host.

File: 64f.jpg (57KB, 752x420px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 752x420px

>>30224565
Honestly, after the demo leak, and UB Lighting looking like Guzma and his "in human form" I was totally convinced of that UBs in human disguise idea

>>30224983
We've seen the world they come from. There are no humans there.

>>30224739
>shapeshifters
I don't remember that. Any source?

I understand the theory of Lusamine dressing her daughter as Nihilego, hell i even assumed it was true.
But don't you witness Lusamine's first encounter with Nihilego when you first go to the aether paradise? By then Lillie had been wearing that outfit for a long while.
Unless that whole encounter was an act.

>>30225016
The official fucking website you dunce. It doesn't come up in game because the world and story is trying so hard to be deep that details are getting losts and confused.
>UB-01’s body is composed of a glass-like substance. However, it’s constantly changing shapes, never settling on one.

While evidence of something like a survival instinct can be observed in UB-01, no one knows whether it has a will of its own or any emotions. It’s said that, for some reason, its movements resemble those of a young girl.

>>30224774
This.

>>30225085
lusamine obviously knew about the beasts long before that

>>30225085
They had a list of Ultra Beasts from Mohn's research, they give it to the Pokemon Police in the post-game.

>>30225101
>you dunce
Wow there's no need to be rude.

>>30224999
You see one hallway. There arent any humans in lush jungle most of the time either, that doesn't mean anything.

>>30225208
This. Overreaction much?

File: 1386743708467.jpg (100KB, 612x720px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 612x720px

>>30225257
while it is true that the absence of evidence is not necessarily the evidence of absence, what we do know is that Ultra Space is crazy, so that dimension's version of whatever a trainer would be could be just as rogue as the ultra beasts.

>>30224999
>One cave is the whole world
ok

>>30225430
Ultra Beasts were identifiably "not" Pokemon even though there's not really any established thing that makes a pokemon a pokemon to us. What reason do we have to believe that the people would still be the same. You can't make an assumption (that it imitates a young human to attract prey) based off an assumption (that humans are so similar that the traits we find endearing in our young are the exact same to the poitn that what works in their world also works in ours). That's not how that works.

I feel like at some point in the process of development there was going to be more of a connection between the UBs and humans, considering Xurkitry is very obviously meant to be Guzma, but it got dropped

You're all thinking too hard, that's your problem. For all you know it's just a really weird coincidence that Nihilego acts like a little girl.

>>30224524
I am prity darn sure the ultra beasts were formed in some way due to humans thats why some toke on a physical form similar to some humans.

>>30224599
Most people likely forgot about that question.

>>30225430
You're replying to the wrong anon, and replying something unrelated.

>We've seen the world they come from. There are no humans there.
> >One cave is the whole world
is a proper response because anon is assuming that cave represents the UB's entire world.

I don't say what UBs are, I don't say if humans are there or not. You can't make an assumption based off an assumption, anon,,,,,,,,,,,,,, That's not how it works,,,,,,

>>30225085
>Unless that whole encounter was an act.
It was. Aether was clearly running experiments that lured it and she wanted to play it off as a fluke.

>>30225430
>>30225538
Jokes on me, I'm merely pretending to respond to the wrong anon.

>>30225572
Like I said at >>30224990

That fucking "in human form" line was a huge red flag when the demo leaked because of UB Lightining

>>30225804
In retrospect, that was just Guzma being overly dramatic.

I actually thought UB-01 typing would be ghost/normal and that she was the ghost girl from X/Y

>>30225891
Tfw she says "you're not the one," when Guzma went inside her.

>>30225673
There aren't just "weird coincidences" unless the game acknowledges that it is a weird coincidence. This is world real life people made. A group of people made up all the things that make this world. You don't make a story with pointless details unless their purpose is explicitly to be pointless details which is hard to extrapolate without being explicitly said.

What is the creepiest/most fucked up thing in this agme so far?

>>30225963
Honestly the whole Nihilego thing and the effect that had on Lusamine's relationship with her kids was pretty fucked up.

>>30225922
I meant in-universe, stupid. Out of universe, odds are they were planning something and then dropped it due to story rewrites or editors pointing out that it would make for a shitty plot.

>You don't make a story with pointless details unless their purpose is explicitly to be pointless details which is hard to extrapolate without being explicitly said.

Dark Souls called, it wants to tell you people love it for doing exactly that.

>>30225986
I kinda wish we coulda battled lusalegio straight up and not just here totem strength pokemon.

>>30226008
You're the one being a fucking idiot. Dark Souls makes pointless details because we know that's what they do. We KNOW the details are just worldbuilding. This is established in game and by devs. It isn't in Pokemon. The difference is pretty fucking obvious. We don't have extensive information behind every Pokemon explaining everything about them that doesn't come up in the game because of the narrow lens through which we see it.

>>30226129
So just stop thinking so hard about it and use your imagination for once. Do you need absolutely everything explained for you, or do you just hate mystery?

>>30226176
That devolved into ad hominem real fucking fast. Why don't you attack my point (that the Dark Souls comparison is moot because those games root themselves in in-depth world building, whereas Pokemon gives us the information we need to know to tell us about the story and characters and little else, not only usually but in this game as well) instead?

>>30226129
> Dark Souls makes pointless details because we know that's what they do. We KNOW the details are just worldbuilding.

Congrats, you described the purpose of the Pokedex's flavor text.

>>30225673
You're acting like the story directors haven't been trying to create a meaningful story since Gen V.

>>30226248
Yes, and?

>>30226240
Anon, you're pretty aggressive, are you okay?
I think you should take a break.

>>30225963
Golf clubs

>>30226240
Because the entire pokedex is world building, and that's literally the only place where Nihilego acting like a little girl is ever mentioned. Are you going to ask why Toucannons swallowing Bounsweet whole isn't included next?

>>30226284
They haven't. If they have, they're doing an awful job of it and should hire people who actually know how to write fiction next time.

>>30226361
They absolutely have been trying. Whether they have succeeded or not is irrelevant and entirely up to personal opinion.

>>30224524
what about the whole Arceus and Type: Null thing? Didn't Team Aether go to Sinnoh or something?

>>30226361
>Because the entire pokedex is world building, and that's literally the only place where Nihilego acting like a little girl is ever mentioned
It was literally posted from the website. Combine that and the relation to Lillie, it's pretty obviously meant to be of significance. Random irreverent Pokedex information is not the same.

>>30226361
So you're saying because you don't see it, it doesn't exist. You probably think a cave is a whole UB world too.
>>30226415
Website was literally for Pokedex sparkle text, anon.

>>30226415
Most of what's posted on the website is also flavor text, so that's not of real significance either.

Even if that particular part was meant to be important, it's highly likely that either the intended connection was left on the cutting room floor given that catching Nihilego that way would be akin to slavery, or (more likely) that people were unaware that the real plot importance Lillie had was in relation to Cosmog.

In short, the whole thing is based on a set of improbable conjectures and assumptions that were proved wrong in retrospect.

>>30226590
No, I'm saying that you shouldn't jump to conclusions when all you have to support them is flavor text and speculation. Also, that Game Freak has shitty story writers who can't make a convincing character to save their lives.

>>30225708
Really? I remembered it because of how she kept looking at clothes she wanted to wear but mostly because her mom was nowhere in sight and Lillie could easily do as she pleased. Not to mention the point in the story when she actually changed clothes. It was nice to see her come out of her shell as Nebby went into one, offers a nice juxtaposition.

>>30226718
>that people were unaware that the real plot importance Lillie had was in relation to Cosmog.
Ok, no, fuck you, it's 100% clear that Lillie was, AT THE VERY FUCKING LEAST, meant to resemble UB-01, which is already more than that bare minimum of relation based on the "most likely" scenario you described.

>>30226798
Because Lusamine dressed her up to look like Nihilego, as we have already mentioned earlier in >>30224593. If she was meant to have deeper resemblance beyond that, it's in a draft that was long since abandoned.

Face it, unless you get the writers to come here and explain it all for us that's the best explanation we'll get. Work with the evidence you have, not with the evidence you want.

>>30226871
Perhaps Nebby was friends with a Nihilego, and took a liking to Lillie once in the pokemon world?

>>30226871
What the fuck are you talking about? You're also assuming that it was coincidence with nothing to go off of. You have no evidence that it was dropped content or plot points or whatever the fuck you think it was. I have asserted absolutely nothing at all about any sort of relation of anything to anything other than the very clear and obvious fact that UB-01 and Lillie were meant to resemble each other in order to relate them in the storyline, which includes UB-01 acting like a young girl. The issue in contention is why UB-01 acts like a little girl when it has no actual purpose in the storyline other than to imply a connection to Lillie during the pre-game info season.

>>30227061
>the issue in contention is why UB-01 acts like a little girl when it has no actual purpose in the storyline other than to imply a connection to Lillie during the pre-game info season.

The alternative to assuming that it's dropped content or whatever is that it's just doing so for shits and giggles.Better to assume the detail was meant to be relevant than say it was thrown in there just because.

Though come to think of it, how do YOU know it was ever meant to mean anything at all? Nobody in game draws attention to the fact it acts like a girl, and Lillie being dressed by her UB-obsessed mother already explains why she looks like it. It's an extraneous detail in every possible way.

File: 1479846830477.jpg (44KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 1024x576px

So lemme get this straight

Lusamine is crazy for Nihilego because it killed/spirited her husband away to Ultra Space and possibly poisoned her which is why she looks so young

Her obsession started out as trying to track down her husband but due to Nihilego's influence, her mind fell apart.

Now what I'm not sure of is if Gladion and possibly Lillie are clones

>>30227232
Why doesn't the MC just tell them that Mohn is at the Poke Pelago?

>>30224720
i mean it's implied that Lusamine dresses up Lillie like Nihilego

>>30227232
They're just her kids, her husband was the father. If you question that, just look at Mohn- he's basically an older and slightly fatter Gladion. Granted, it doesn't explain why the fuck he's in Poke Pelago, but I consider that a byproduct of GF's writers being lazy fucks. (See also: the lengths they take to try and fail to hide the connection between Necrozma and the other UBs).

>>30227302
See the "GF's writers are lazy fucks" part above. That, and it would ruin the plot.

>>30227182
The proble msi that this assumes that it WASN'T relevant. How do you know that their goal wasn't to have them connect Lillie and UB-01 by having the detail of it mimicking a girl? We don't know. You can't tell me that "you're wrong you can't make a guess based on nothing" and then proceed to make an assumption based on fucking nothing. I can tell you that I believe that it was meant to mean something based on the fact that we know the two are meant to resemble each other makes it a shorter logical leap compared to "it was meant to mean something and got cut but they left it in and just let it mean nothing". Yes, both are assumptions, but I wasn't the one who began criticizing someone else for making that assumption, it was you or them, and instead declared your assumption as more logical based on absolutely nothing.

>>30227061
>The issue in contention is why UB-01 acts like a little girl when it has no actual purpose in the storyline
It could be argued that's what drew Lunasmine to it in the first place. She wanted to be a mother to these young girls.

>>30227369
And we already HAVE an explanation as to why that resemblance exists in the game now- it's because Lusamine dressed Lillie to look like Nihilego. Why are you so resistant to that simple explanation in favor of some disproved theory?

Additionally, if Nihilego acting like a little girl was relevant, you'd bet your ass that attention would be drawn to that outside of the Pokedex and a pre-release web page. Haven't you ever heard of Chekhov's Gun? If a detail is mentioned but never used, then it's simply BAD WRITING. And really, did you go into a Pokemon game assuming the writing would be anything more than mediocre?

>>30227519
Why the fuck would they have a pokemo nand a little girl who are meant to resemble each other, then have the additional detail that the pokemon oh also happens to coincidentally act like a little girl sometimes, and you immediatley assume "oh there's obviously no connection whatsoever". How fuckign dense do you have to be? I'm not going to say that the detail in relation to that is 100% a fact because I guess it's really not but the connecting the fucking dots is not much of a leap. What is your "simple explanation" and what "theory" do you seem to think I'm proposing? I'm pretty sure "it was a ditched plot point that they just decided to randomly keep the details of as a pokedex entry" is as much, if not several orders of magnitudes moreso in fact, a "theory" as much as "the pokemon this little girl is meant to resemble also happens to act like a little girl probably has some unclear significance". It's "simpler" but it certainly doesn't make any more sense.

More of a blue Jellyfish

File: overthinking.jpg (91KB, 500x392px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 500x392px

>>30227705
That Lusamine dressed up Lillie to look like Nihilego because she's a nut. Your theory is that there's some big hidden secret behind it all, which you can't seem to describe beyond the fact that it's secret.

Point is, it's literally just flavor text for all respects and purposes and should be treated as such. If it was meant to be important, its significance would have been made pretty fucking obvious as opposed to being relegated to the fucking Pokedex.

Pic related, it's what you're doing right now.

>>30227232
Lusamine wasn't poisoned by Nihilego until entering Ultra Space. Everything she did prior to that was of her own volition.

Was Lusamine dressing as Pheromosa as well? Did she want to become more beautiful?

>>30228020
Fuck knows, that may have just been a coincidence since Nihilego seemed to be the only UB she seemed to know about.

File: IMG_1201.jpg (29KB, 315x334px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 315x334px

>>30224990
>Lusamine worked with Guzma because he reminded her of UB: Lighting
I accept this as my autism headcanon

>>30228120
I refuse to believe it was a fucking coincidence. Beauty, long legs being an identifying feature, similar poses in official art... But I guess we'll probably never fucking know.

>>30228151
I would think that if it was deliberate, they'd have made that fact clear, to say nothing of the fact that it wouldn't have been a version exclusive if it was what she deliberately designed her look on.

But like I keep saying, GF is not known for quality plot.

>>30227302
You dont really learn Lusamines motive until like post game right?

>>30228279
Could you imagine?

"Hey I know you guys went on a crazy soul searching adventure that spanned dimensions but your dad/husband is chilling on an island thats like a 15 minute boat ride away and has amnesia

>>30228279
Right.

>>30228586
I can, and the inevitable response is being called insane or a liar. Nobody would ever believe it.

>>30227302

>You never tell Lillie you know where her dad is
>You keep the one piece of information that might lead to Lusamine's full recovery to yourself
>You conveniently get contracted to "protect" the few roaming UBs in Alola by capturing them with the exact same method that Lusamine used for her own ends
>You can even take it a step farther and capture a UB that had long since peacefully integrated among the Alolan ecosystem, and even the Island Guardians themselves
>Game sends the message that people (and by extension, Pokemon and UBs) shouldn't be coveted and treated as objects of vanity, but the game seems to go out of its way to incentivise and even justify that very behavior from the player
>Lusamine insinuates that the player isn't that much different than herself

The player character never really wanted to help Lillie "save" her mom. She was just in the way.

>>30229294
>Game Freak
>in charge of making a plot

Why do you keep being surprised by shit like this when it's the same thing they always do? The only morality you need to think about in these games is "I'm the hero, they're not, therefore I am always right". Anything else is just going to make your brain hurt and point out the massive plot holes.

File: 1479425127385.png (387KB, 683x590px) Image search: [Google]

387KB, 683x590px

>>30229294
Yes, we should have let the dangerous alien monsters capable of combating the local legendary guardians run freely about the land doing whatever they want, I'm sure that problem would have solved itself