VGC General

So has anyone tried using dancing bird?

>>30219217
NO MOVES
O

M
O
V
E
S

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>W-What's this year ruleset anon?
Only Pokemon from the Aloladex are allowed.
http://pastebin.com/4ddvU5Ai (embed)

Yes, the Ultra Beasts are allowed

>B-But the UB are broken!
No they are not, stop being a reactionary dummy. Stop thinking things are broken just because they have one very good stat. Notice how all their other stats are below or very below average. They don't even reach 580 BST.

>B-But Mega Mom and Mega Mence!
Megas are not allowed this year so that Z-Crystals and Moves can be shilled properly.

>W-What's good this year then?
Things that can be expected to be good are things that have always been good like Garchomp, Salamence, Gengar, etc. Of the new Pokemon? The most prominent are obviously the Tapus as they all have excellent typings, BST an abilities. Expect them to see them very often and to pack something agaisnt them.

Here's a few pages that have small compilations of interesting or good Pokemon or usual VGC staples.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spoilers-early-vgc-2017-interesting-pokemon.3585002/

http://nuggetbridge.com/forums/topic/25458-spoilers-new-mechanics-and-viable-pokemon-for-vgc-17/

>B-But I don't know anything about doubles or VGC!
Then it's time to git gud

http://pastebin.com/Pnz1is2V (embed)
http://nuggetbridge.com/forums/topic/18611-article-and-resource-index/

>W-When's the earliest official event for this format?
It'll be on London between the 9 and 11 of December. It'll be the first of many International Championships.

Yes, TCPi thought it was a good idea to make a Nat-levels tourney as the first tourney of the format with less than a month for a meta to establish and for people to play the game and to breed their teams.

Thank god PKHex got online as fast as it did.
On that note, where do you draw the line with hacking/ breeding by hand?
Personally I breed by hand everything I am physically able to. Legends are pretty much the exception. I don't expect an award or anything for doing it, but it feels more involved, you know?

So Snorlax is my favorite pokemon, and it even got a signature Z-move this gen, is it possible to make a usable team including it in VGC?

Tell me about Z moves this season. What's hot? Is it gamebreaking how it can pierce protect, even if it's a 75% damage reduction?

>>30219426
I don't gen new pokemon, I mod/clone ones I've already caught.

>>30219217
I actually lost to one today. Electric/Flying is an annoying typing. Had QD support from Ribombee and a Toucannon burned my Bulu after I locked into Zen Headbutt to kill Toxapex. Roosted while I burned to death. I guess it can work if supported properly and your opponent misplays a lot and is doing their first match in ages with a new team, like I was. I think I could beat it if I played smarter.

>>30219426
I just inject everything.

Fuck Gamefreak and it's obtuse ways.

There's literally no other game with such a massive wall for players to get around so they can play competitively.

Every other game is just pick up and have go, but no, in Pokemon you have to play RNG Bike Simulator first before actually playing the actual game.

>>30219482
Z-moves will be less relevant in doubles than in singles. Kartana is probably the best overall Z-move user with Fightium Z since it makes up for his lack of STAB on his third move and gets him on the beast boost roll. But Kartana isn't really that good in VGC.

>>30219429
If you're going to a tournament, making stuff 'usable' shouldn't be your objective unless you want to scrub out long before top cut.

Are Island Scan Pokemon legal this season?

>>30219482
Z-Conversion is the hot new meme move

>>30219759
I don't think so.

>>30219759
Nope, Alola dex only

>>30219759
No if it's not on the AlolaDex.

>>30219555
Since they're apparently paid now, I have no intentions of going to a tournament this year

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>>30219759
This, minus Zygarde, Solgaleo/Lunala and their preevos, and Necrozma is the complete legal list .

>>30219526
I would argue that normies can just pick up the game without looking at IVs, but that's not entirely valid when we are speaking for a more competitive scene. I do agree that it is quite tedious for no reason, and in the original games IVs (or whatever they were called then) were 100% uncontrollable but less of an impact compared to EVs.
Say, what's the best method of EV training and leveling this gen? I heard they altered Super Training and there aren't hoard battles like there used to be.

>>30219526
I mean, it's an RPG. It's supposed to be grindy. I can't really defend this too hard because I see your point but, I think some parts of the grind is certainly rewarding. Even though in the end all you did was roll the dice a lot until you got the outcome you wanted, but maybe that feeling of 'holy shit, I finally found a shiny' or 'holy shit, I finally got a flawless Pokemon' makes it all worth.

So how's Gengar's viability now that he doesn't levitate?

>>30219903
Get a Pokerus and a Power Item, just like always, and go chain a few wild mons (use an Adrenaline Orb). 7 mons will get you 252 EVs (36 each).

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>mfw was hyped to start doing competitive and even breeding and gitting gud to take part in some tournaments
>VGC doesn't happen in my country

just fuck my shit up fampai

>>30219555
>If you're going to a tournament, making stuff 'usable' shouldn't be your objective unless you want to scrub out long before top cut.

What do you mean?

Not even memeing, what exactly do you mean? Shouldn't making a pokemon usable be the entire basis of competitive?

>>30220026
Well there are at least more online VGC competitions this gen, right?

>>30219874
>Since they're apparently paid now,
They have always been paid. The difference this year is that the prize of the entries, from like 10 to 40/50 bucks, is bigger because, you know, the prizes are bigger too now.

The issues are bigger than the cost of the entries anyway like how for example the format is more pay2win than it's ever been. If you've got bucks to throw away to travel to every international champtionship and stuff like that you have a massive advantage over everyone else.

You can see more about this particular topic here.

https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/29922365/#29924561
https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/29922365/#29924744
https://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/29922365/#29926308

https://themeta.killscreen.com/pokemon-twitter-outraged-rising-tournament-entry-fees/

>>30220026
Just travel to the International Champtionships :^)

>>30219952
Not that bad actually. Grassy terrain helps him mitigate EQ damage and Z-Destiny Bond is interesting.

>>30220026
Time to play for fun!! If you get high enough on the ladder your name can be seen on the Pokemon GTS site that no one even uses, lmao

>>30220063
>Shouldn't making a pokemon usable be the entire basis of competitive?
No, the basis of competitive is to win.

There are things that are unsalvageable or simply just won't work because they have no role to fulfill on the meta or are utterly outclassed by other Pokemon.

>>30220063
No. The basis of competitive is using only the top tier pokemon and crushing fucking morons who think like you.

>>30220063
If a pokemon has high potential, you should use/abuse it. Nichemon will stay nichemon; if they had a place they would be used already 99% of the time, but are just generally outclassed by stats/moves/typing. Why use a Beheeyem for what a Reunicles can do when you can just use the Reunicles? Unless the differences between the two is part of your strategy, there's no point.
A strategy in Pokemon is all about utelizing winning with the team while playing with its weaknesses. You have to measure how risky your strat is going to be. If it's too risky or the results don't yield enough, it's just not going to be worth it.

>>30220129
>>30220179


Didn't a VGC champion some years ago use Follow Me Pachirisu to win the whole thing?

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>>30219110
I took the time to compile the top teams and their similarities.
I created this image to represent the most common pokemon on each team.
____________
::::Key findings::::

>Trick Room is a predominant strategy right now, with about 40% of the top teams using it
>The strength of Trick Room is due primarily to Oranguru
>Oranguru Instruct + Choice Specs Torkoal Eruption in Sun in Trick Room is a popular strategy
>UBs are not very good aside from Celesteela. The real champions of VGC17 will be the Tapus
>Scizor would be very good in this meta, but there is a distinct lack of Scizor on any of the top teams. This is due to Tapu Lele's popularity.
>The best counter to the top strats involve installing your own Weather, decreasing Torkoal's power by bringing in Rain
>Pelipper is surprisingly strong, especially with a Z-Move Water attack in rain.
>Gigalith is rarely used to counter some weathers
>Salamence is rarely used because Dragon is not a good attacking type due to usually 2/4 team members being immune to it. Teams that want a dragon opt for Garchomp because Ground is such an important attacking type in this meta (dispatches of A-Muk and A-Marowak who stop many of the top strategies)
>A-Muk and A-Marowak stop many of the top strategies
>Arcanine is pretty popular.
>Smeargle Follow Me Focus Sash + Oranguru Trick Room is the #1 ranked player's standard opening and is very difficult to beat. This opening guarantees Trick Room. Smeargle dies immediately and Torkoal switches in and starts spamming Eruption. The only players who were able to beat it used Wide Guard, Rain, or some combination of both, with smart switches. I am not sure why top players do not use Fake Out onto the Torkoal, as it will stop Instruct from working if the Torkoal is flinched, leading to 2 free moves for you.

This is a very early face of the meta report and many 'mons have untapped or unrealized potential that I think will develop over time. Ask any questions if curious.

>>30220063
It means that you shouldn't go looking to make a pokemon that has been dogshit in most formats since gen 4 the core of your team unless you have a very good reason to do so.

Like look at Persian-A and Marowak-A. Hardly anyone went in thinking "im gonna make my bro viable XD", they looked at what was strong in the meta and found that these apparent shitmons were actually very anti-meta and as such viable. Your first question shouldn't be "Can I get away with using this?" the question should be "How do I win?" If Snorlax answers that second question then go ahead. If he doesn't, ditch him.

'Bro'mons have no place in a tournament with an entry fee. Shouldn't even be a consideration.

>>30219896
would honestly be an awesome meta without
>Chansey
>Clefable
>Skarmory
>Scizor
>Garchomp
>all the Tapus
>Pheromosa
>Celesteela

>>30220206
Because he used it well. Electric only has 1 weakness, Pachi has a good moveset and decent defenses and Sejun is a great tactician.
Thing is if you're team's gimmicking or trying to win off a surprise factor, it will always fail in the end. People talk, they will learn your trick, and will find a way around it.
>Go to Lancaster 2015 or 16 regionals (forgot year)
>Heard a guy doing a Belly Drum/Explosion Snorlax and Psyche up M Sabeleye friend fought who surprised him, he lost against
>2 rounds later I'm fighting a guy who's using a Snorlax and Sableye, no other mega options
>He BDrums, I focus the Sabeleye that turn and take him out before he could Psyche Up next turn
>Double protect next turn
>He explodes into nothing
He was furious.

>>30220210
Scizor also gets totally fucked by a lack of tutor moves. Gigalith suffers from wide guard because aside from heavy slam, all of his good moves are blocked by it. Also being faster than Torkoal sucks for him otherwise he'd stop eruption spam dead in its tracks.

Also nice try, sneaking memeowl into there. Haven't seen him since 1200 or so. Who's using him and how have I not run into him?

>>30220210
>Decidueye
>Drampa
Are these actually good?

>>30220402
Exactly. People don't get that a tournament isn't a series of blind encounters. The way people play evolves in response to observations at the event. If you're running a gimmick team, people will talk about it and people will anticipate your gimmick.

People who meme on le gook pachirisu man don't mention that aside from Pachi his team was pretty conventional and that IIRC he had lost the prior year using Pachi.

>>30220210
Update: I cannot explain Decidueye, as I don't understand it myself. The #1 player uses it on his team and will open with it alongside Oranguru sometimes. I think he does this when he suspects he will not be able to get Trick Room up using the Smeargle + Oranguru combination. I think he uses Decidueye because of its Ghost typing, being that the only way to beat Smeargle + Oranguru is to Fake Out Smeargle and prevent its Follow Me, while something else OHKOs Oranguru. Immunity to Fake Out seems to be one of the reasons to bring it, however it seems like there would be stronger Ghost choices. I should note that the Decidueye carries the Z-move Thousand Arrow Whatever.
Both the #1 and #2 teams use the exact same team and both include this Decidueye. Decidueye is not seen elsewhere on any other teams.

Bonus info:

The strangest strategy I saw in the top 10 was this:

Smeargle eevee lead - eevee extreme evo boosts while smeargle Follows Me, then Eevee baton passes to arcanine. arcanine spams heat wave.
Tapu Lele comes in and Psychs Up on the allied arcanine and gets +2s everywhere as well. You actually want the Smeargle to die fast so that you can
get Tapu Lele to come in.
Tapu Lele has sitrus berry and spams Dazzling Gleam.

Many of the top teams struggled to stop the baton pass from happening. Arcanine is used because of Intimidate, which gives Tapu Lele a better chance to come in because of her lower Defense stat but extremely high SpDef stat. After Tapu Lele Psychs Up and Arcanine starts Snarling and Heat Waving there is almost nothing any enemy can do to clinch the win. None of his enemies were able to beat him after he had that arrangement on the field. The only enemies who beat him carried Roar or something else to specifically stop the strategy. Perish Song would also work. Most teams chose to keep their teams the same rather than change just to beat one guy on the ladder. Because of this, he has many guaranteed free wins.

>>30220402

So in theory if you're REALLY good at this stuff, you can make even the most gimmicky strategy work as long as you're not a fuckwit that tries to keep getting people with it repeatedly?

I can see how that works. If you think you're up against a team you can't just straigth up beat you can try to be that guy that pulls a surprise to win, but it's simply not what you make your "main team" to be. It's something you need timing for.

I guess I can see that.

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>>30220206
>Le Pachi meme

When will you people understand that Sejun didn't use Pachirisu because it was he bro and he liked it and made it work with the power of bro?

Sejun used Pachirisu because

>VGC14 only allowed Alolamons which means a shitton of stuff is banned
>With a shitton of stuff banned there were only two Follow Me users left: Lucario and Pachirisu
>Everyone and their mom was using Amoongus for redirection because 99% of the time it's better for it than Lucario and Pachirisu

All of this means that Pachirisu had a very specific niche on a very specific metagame, and more than all, a very specific tourney where Sejun decided for Pachirisu over Amoongus (this is something he said) because he decided to bet on everyone and their mom bringing something ot mess with Amoongus redirection efforts.

That Pachirisu also had Volt Absorb to heal itself and take away Electric attacks from Gyarados and Talonflame was the cherry on top of the cake.

This is how you use a seemingly at first glance shitmon properly. You don't build around the shitmon, you use the shitmon if through some miracle you need to do something nothing but the shitmon can do.

Sejun used Pachirisu because it fulfilled the specific needs he wanted and needed, not because it was his bro and he wanted to prove the Neo-Nazis of Smogon who hate variety wrong.

I can't believe that three years after the damn thing happened I still have to explain this. I liked Sejun and the dude deserved to win but fuck I dreaded him winning because of all the shit that would happen afterwards. I hate people so much goddamn.

>>30220446
Drampa is kind of good. Good on TR which is a very good strat, decentish bulk, can run either cloud nine in a weather heavy meta or try going for multiple berserk boosts (it triggers each successive time you fall under 50% and he has roost).

Still waiting for him to justify the owl though, I never see it.

>>30220516
Wouldn't double multi hit moves stop any Smeargle strat from happening? Like a Wishiwashi Pelipper start using Muddy Water + Surf.

>>30220446
Short answer: No.

Long answer: Yes, only if you run a specific team. Decidueye is explained as best as my perception allows here >>30220516
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Many pokemon are not "good" generally, but serve a niche role that is invaluable to the team they are on. For example, Lanturn. You can't put Lanturn on every team and expect it to win the game for you, but if you need a Lightning and Water resistance in 1 pokemon with strong Electric and Water STAB, then Lanturn may be for you. The same can be said of Decidueye, but only the #1 and #2 teams run him. He is even more incredibly niche than Trevenant and Lanturn.

As for pokemon that are generally good and can go on most teams: A-Muk, A-Marowak, Arcanine

>>30220576
>VGC14 only allowed Alolamons
Must have been a pretty bare meta

>>30220576

You seem very upset, my dude.

I haven't ever done competitive before, I'm just learning. Chill bro. Thanks for the tips though, it does make sense.

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>>30220634
Goddammit. You get what I meant there.

>>30220516
It must be for the unique Z-move because I see no other reason to use memeowl over Dhelmise in this meta.

Trick room isn't a meme strat anymore? Is it because of less priority dominance?

>>30220657
>>You seem very upset, my dude.
Yes I am.

>I haven't ever done competitive before, I'm just learning. Chill bro. Thanks for the tips though, it does make sense.
My apologies for my rudeness then. I'm glad you were able to understand and learn something new today.

>>30220206
That wasn't "make my bro viable." That was "this apparently shitmon actually has a lot of anti-meta potential."

In VGC14, there were not a lot of follow me users. Pachirisu was successful because it served as a fairly bulky follow me user that could get some measure of offense by using super fang (so didn't need much investment).

It was a calculated choice, since Se Jun's team had a whole nother mode to deal with Mega-Kang.

>>30220703
Trick Room has never been a meme strat.

>>30220657
Not him, but it's fucking cringy when people come saying "Oh I'm gonna make my bro work just like my japanchinese god Se Jun Park!!!!", and we get that shit like every fucking day, so it gets old and annoying.

>>30220210
>>30220516
Good posts. Where can I follow your blog? I'm not being sarcastic.

>>30220600
Smeargle carries Wide Guard and it is very obvious if you plan on using those moves. There are few allowed pokemon that are strong enough to use moves like that and kill a fully invested Oranguru before it uses Trick Room. These aforementioned limited number of pokemon also have a sparse movepool which makes it very easy for the Smeargle user to predict you. "Oh Gee Xurkitree + Tapu Koko opening, I wonder what he will do?" Dazzling Gleam + Discharge is blocked by Wide Guard completely and he gets Trick Room for free.

Trying to do a mixed approach, like Discharge + Wild Charge also won't work no matter what Smeargle chooses to do. If it Follows me, it dies and then Trick Room is up. If it Wide Guards, then either Oranguru or Smeargle will be low HP, but both will be alive and Trick Room will still be up.

The only, only, only way to counter it is to Fake Out onto smeargle to prevent the Follow Me and then follow with a SE attack onto Oranguru that OHKOs. After that you've won the game. However, this explains the Decidueye, because only a paltry few legal pokemon have Fake Out.

Anyone mind helping me with my move choices/ev spreads? I'm completely new to VGC so I don't know what I'm doing.
http://pastebin.com/5CkZv9CN

>>30220754
>japanchinese
Nice touch.

>>30220772
You could predict the Wide Guard from the Smeargle, and use single target moves to take out the ape in one turn.

>>30220768
Email me [email protected]

>>30220512
Agreed. I will defend Pachi in the '14 format, but at the same time if you wanted a surprise factor only use one that is backed up by a strong reliable team.
>>30220526
Think of it like this, a strat is only as good as it's foundation. If your strat is "It will usually work as long as they don't X", you better make damn sure it's nearly impossible to do X. But at the same time don't be surprised when there's someone who has X.
Take Dark Void Smearlge for example (back in gen 6.5 before the nerfs). All you needed was a slot and a scarf. He needed no backup, needed no setup, and while imperfect accuracy, the results quite often payed off.
Now compare that to >>30220402. He needed
>2 full turns of setup
>Niether Pokemon could die in the process
>Used a slow as dirt Pokemon as the center of the strat
>Used a move that halved health, or would fail if HP was <=49%
>Had no way of getting pressure off him, was open to taunt, etc
Not to mention Explosion is blockable and doesn't hit ghosts. If you fail that one attack, you don't get a 2nd chance.
It had a lot of flaws. Not saying you can't be original about it, just make sure it works and you don't have to have too risky a setup.

>>30220772
Are there any multihit moves that can break the sash and kill Smeargle that way?

>>30220772
The list of FOers (may be some alolamons I'm missing):
Weavile
Raichu-A
Persian-A
Hariyama
Sableye
Salazzle
Kangaskhan (lol)
Spinda (lmao)

What does Decidueye offer against these that other ghosts (especially when Trevenant who learns TR himself and Dhelmise who has much better stat distro and stronger STABs) don't? I just don't see it. Any idea what moves other than his special Z-move he carries on it? Is it a roost build?

>>30220835
That's one possibility, but Oranguru carries protect and can scout. It's all a guessing game but I would wager it's slightly in the SmeargleOranguru's favor. All they have to do is get TR up successfully somehow between the 2 of them. The enemy, on the other hand, has to kill a pokemon.

>>30220869
Water Shuriken could, but only two pokemon can use it and they're both banned.

>>30220512
The real story of Pachirisu at `14 was actually not a story about Pachi at all; it was a story about Gyarados. The real story was that Gyarados DD is so strong that all you need to do is redirect electric attacks and it will win the game for you, even if the electric attack redirector is kind of a shitmon and doesn't do much else besides that

>>30219526
The worst part is, they almost got it right this time. They had the framework, but they forgot to put in real ways of obtaining bottle caps and high level EXP grind areas. The fact that you are still locked behind a Time Gate with how often you could obtain shards is the worst bullshit ever.

Then Festival Plaza was ALMOST good. The heavy RNG, lack of variety in FC grinding, and absurdity of their glitchy system kills what could've been a fun and refreshing experience that Join Avenue needed: true online.

>>30220962
Not him but I went to check and I saw
-Spirit Shackle/Z-move
-Leaf Blade
-Sucker Punch
on the Decidueye

>>30221227
It's got to be sucker punch then.

>>30220772
>>30220962
Actually I have to correct myself because both Oranguru and Smeargle carry Fake Out to stall out the first turn and disable Fake Out from use. Now I truly don't know why Decidueye is picked.

It is possible to beat the Smeargle + Oranguru opening, but it is very hard to do so. They are only designed to do 1 small job, which is enable Trick Room. It is best to, instead of trying to prevent them from using Trick Room, focus on killing the Smeargle and assume that TR will be up, and bring 1 or 2 'mons that can deal with TR conditions. Celesteela is godsend and uses Wide Guard to prevent the Torkoal bullshit from working. Stall out the turns with Protect and wait for the TR to go away. The second time Oranguru tries to set it up, he is much more vulnerable. You can stop him then.

My current team is:

Aerodactyl
Garchomp
Trevenant
Gastrodon
Gigalith

The usual strategy is to use Garchomp and Aerodactyl to Taunt and soften opponents, set up Trick Room with Trevenant and start attacking with Gigalith's powerful Rock Slides while Trevenant deals with water and ground types.

Gastrodon is for when I need an extra water resist.

But Garchomp, Pheromosa and Pelipper are problematic, any ideas for the last slot?

>>30220210
>tfw you lived long enough to see Torkoal top the ladder
What madness is this?

>>30220962
i'm guessing it's sucker punch + first-turn momentum (the player does not need to double protect and lose momentum, he can protect on just 1 and attack on decidueye to keep momentum strong). he is also bulkier than most ghosts which is good in doubles where bulkier usually wins

>>30221383
Auto-weather will make literally anything good.

Even Ledian would become good if it were able to set-up rain or sun.

>>30221441
Not necessarily true. Example: Vanilluxe.

>>30221503
Well, Hail is shit in first place so yeah.

>>30220210
You mentioned untapped potential. which pokemon do you think have untapped potential?

>>30221503
That's only because Hail is the worst weather condition and there is a better Hailer anyway.

also vanilluxe is low key pretty good. if it learned aurora veil you would see it a lot more

Mimikyu and disguise
>Does Mold Breaker ignore it?
>Does Skill link break and damage?
>Z-Move splash, what even? How viable is it.

>>30221553
It's hard to say, but I would like to speculate that Buzzwole is good in some capacity. Its stats fit the typical Doubles format of bulky and strong. I don't think it's bad, it's just that no teams have bothered to use it.

>>30221671
>Does Mold Breaker ignore it?
Yes. Guzma's pinsir unexpectedly fucked my mimikyu.

>>30221671
>No idea
>No idea
>Meme set. SD is better.

>>30221616
>if a pokemon knew move x it would be much better

literally 90% of the dex. Ninetails-A existing basically cucks it into oblivion. It'll actually be okay in smogon low tiers but will never have any place in VGC.

>>30221671
The only setup that tends to be viable in Doubles is setup that guarantees you will be both stronger and faster at the end of 1 turn.

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>>30220777

>>30221859
>Raichu Fairium Z with charm
>Spa ev investment, no special move.
Might want to recheck that Raichu buddy.

>>30220777
I haven't played much this year, so I can't offer much in terms of metagame knowledge, but
-4 Spe on Marowak probably isn't that valuable, more defensive stats is proabably more important
-Offensive Gyarados hasn't been that great previously, without mega. It's generally a better user of T-Wave or Taunt than a DD setup set, and I don't know what Crunch is meant to be hitting. Plus, it only has 504 EVs
-What is Fairium doing for Raichu? +Def from Charm doesn't seem a great use.
-Celesteela seems fine, although I don't know the damage calcs.
-Garchomp seems pretty standard

>>30222225
4 Spe on marowak is great because it allows you to outspeed enemy marowak and OHKO.

maybe even 8 spe on marowak.

>>30222268
Jokes on you! I put 16 speed on my Marowak to outspeed your 8 Marowak!

>>30222225
DD Gyarados is really great right now if you're talking about doubles.

>>30222268
>8 spe on Marowak
I don't think you know how level 50 stats work

>>30222268
8 speed would be wasting 4 EVs for the exact same stat as 4 EV.

>>30222118
I really don't know what to do with him, I honestly just picked him up because of nuzzle.
>>30222225
>>30222301
The Gyarados is for VGC doubles
>crunch
I didn't know what else would be a good skill for his set.

So what is best weather and worst? Does Hail still suck?

>>30222610
Hail is good but only if you don't actually use it and just put A-Ninetales on your team make it us Aurora Veil then bring out your tapu koko and continue like normal

>>30222610
Rain > Sun > Sand > Hail

Hail is good more like A-Ninetales appreciates it because it lets it Blizard and Aurora Veil. As an archetype? Of course it's still bad.

>>30221383
Torkoal is #1 and Donald Trump is my president. The times we're living in.

>>30222596
You have Electric Surge. If nothing else, surely running an offensive electric move would make sense?
Thunderbolt/Psychic/Fake Out/Protect with 252 SpA, 252+Spe is a safe as fuck set, even if it ends up being inefficient. Yours is just wasteful.

>>30219110
How do you make a good team for doubles? I can't wrap my head around it. Is it like singles but you just slap protect on a few things?

>>30219952
I actually got majorly fucked by a Cursed body proc on a scarfed mon.

>>30222720
How about read all the resources posted here friendo?

>>30222720
In all honesty, doing that is a good start, then seeing what your opponents use will show you what else to use.
Basic strategies are things like a Discharge user alongside an Earthquake user, or a Drizzle user alongside a Swift Swim user.

>>30220869
Bonemerang

How useful is Muks power of alchemy? Anything good to give it? I'm wondering if moody Muk or disguise Muk has potential.

>>30220869
Moves? Double Kick/ Arm Thrust. Don't think its likely though.

>>30220962
you're forgetting the most important one IMO, Incineroar, that may soon get Intimidate and has supereffective STAB on oranguru.

>>30222818
Now I want to make a Discharge/EQ combo team.

>>30223010
Remember genies?

>>30223044
Yeah, good times.

>>30223010
>DisQuake
What's this? 2009?

>>30223010
DisQuake (with Garchomp and Zapdos) is probably the oldest core in VGC (been around since like 2008), and the lack of Zapdos in this meta makes it pretty much impossible to recreate. Ground+electric does give lots of offensive pressure, especially with Xurkitree. The rise of Tapu Bulu for countering strong spread moves is leading many players towards mons that learn good single target ground moves, most notably A-marowak and mudsdale.

>>30223113
>nd the lack of Zapdos in this meta makes it pretty much impossible to recreate
Just use Pom Pom Oricorio! Oh wait...

>>30223113
How specifically does Tapu Bulu counter spread moves? I look him up and he doesn't get Wide Guard.

>>30220576
>That Pachirisu also had Volt Absorb to heal itself and take away Electric attacks from Gyarados and Talonflame was the cherry on top of the cake.
Actually I'd argue the real cherry on top the cake was that Pachirisu also had Super Fang and Nuzzle in its arsenal. What did that mean?

-Super Fang is fixed damage, no need for offense
-EV purely for defense to be fat as possible which helped since he shrugged off a STAB EQ at a really important point of the finals
-Nuzzle is 100% paralysis attack which can not be Taunted, acts as both speed control and a finisher if for some reason Pachi is the last thing standing and the opponent is short of death

He looked at all his options and used them 100% to reach a near perfect synergy, if it was purely for Follow Me it wouldn't have cut it. We all saw the games and Nuzzle was his actual probably most used move, it is just plain skilled teambuilding.

>>30223192
N O M O V E S
O
S
T
A
T
S

What is the counter to the trick room spam I'm seeing on the ladder?

>>30223211
His terrain

>>30223211
He resists both of them, puts down grassy terrain to halve the damage of earthquake, and then OHKOs everything with wood hammer.

>>30223263
Is there any TR-Imprison users this year?

>>30223255
But hey you can make your bird change forms! Totally worth it!

>>30223263
I just pick my fastest two and kill the TR user.

>>30223211
huh
I thought grassy terrain weakened spread moves. Turns out it doesn't. Weird that I managed to win matches despite this stupid misconception lol

>>30223356
smeargle follows me.

>>30223372
re-edit:
it only weakens magintude, bulldoze and earthquake. weeeeird. Joe should really update the serebii page.

>>30223263
bring, if you can, 4 mons with protect so that it's easier for you to stall TR out. Also, there is no safe way to prevent it from going up with taunts or fake out. The best thing you can do is to go on the full offensive from turn 1 to get as much advantage you can in the turn your opponent has to spend setting up. Also, Incineroar has fake out, moderate bulk, a mid-low speed that can work under TR and a strong STAB against Oranguru (the most popular setter together with proygon2).

>>30219217
I run it with ribombee. I use modest ghost bird with the ghost berry so it can beat all the aegislash running around.

It copies quiver dance and attacks in the same turn

>>30220331
good job marowak beats all those bar garchomp then isn't it

>>30220516
> I think he uses Decidueye because of its Ghost typing, being that the only way to beat Smeargle + Oranguru is to Fake Out Smeargle and prevent its Follow Me, while something else OHKOs Oranguru.
Considering that we also have two other statistically superior Grass/Ghost available to use in this meta I am also very interested in this.

It can't be speed since Smeargle outspeed Decidueye by 5 base. Damage can't be it either since both Oranguru and Smeargle is immune to Decidueye's STAB and it's one of the few Ghost types who don't even learn Taunt which just makes this more confusing.

All I can see which even distinguish it is Haze, U-Turn, Roost and Sucker Punch?

>>30223856
The answer is simple. He uses it for Sinister Arrow Raid, which hits everyone on the field, is a Ghost type move, and is dodged by Oranguru.

So last I checked, Wolfe Glick was our boy. Is this still the case?I actually don't enjoy his youtube videos like I do Cybertron's

>>30224106
>Sinister Arrow Raid, which hits everyone on the field
That explains everything, seriously did not know it was a spread Z-Move. Any other Z-Moves which behave as a spread?

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>>30224176
Yes, especially since it makes Verlis mad as fuck.

>>30224251
The salt this nigga secrets is music to my ears

>>30220210
where do you find the teams people use? are they on a specific site?

>>30224183
I do not believe so.

>>30224377
Pokemon Showdown, look at the ladder then look them up!

>>30224176
he's a great dude but his videos aren't that appealing. The production quality is subpar and he talks way too fast and stutters a lot.

>>30224176
What's the difference between them?

>>30224251
I think it was this guy who made a video a week before the game came out talking about how VGC can't use hacks or transfer their 6IV Dittos, only to see that 2 days later they got hacks working for it.
VGC "pros" are a bunch of drama queens, but I sure love seeing some shit flinging.

>>30224539
Cybertron doesn't upload shit while Wolfe is uploading a bunch of videos with good sets.

>>30224516
Ain't he just starting? Cybertron has been at this for like 2 years, right? Give him time I guess.

>>30224539
Cybertron is asian and is a better show host.
Wolfe is more fun and a better sport (visably), but is not very good at speaking clearly.

>>30224183
It also OHKOs tapu koko and tapu lele while not dying to either one of them in a single turn. And he has Drampa on his team which is immune to ghost moves.

>>30224549
>VGC "pros" are a bunch of drama queens
The NuggetBridge clique is absolutely disgusting.

>>30222906
I specifically included him because there is no indication that intimidate will be legal before VGC, and if he doesn't get intimidate he will be basically worthless.

If he does though, he'll be very good.

>>30224251
Verlis is rightfully mad. Wolfe is a noob who would never come up with amazing sets like physical venusaur with fury cutter. Every good set Verlis makes is only unviable because of hackers.

>>30224582
He's been more consistently uploading since January.
>>30224620
Oh yes. This is one of the only instance I'm proud to be part of the 4cha community over some other place.

>>30224620
NuggetBridge is dead anyways. The new design killed it.

>>30224686
You know I'm not talking about the site in specific you dummy.

>>30224686
Oh? Please go on.

>>30224713
http://nuggetbridge.com/forums/topic/25479-is-it-quiet-here-or-is-it-just-me/

>>30224106
>Sinister Arrow Raid, which hits everyone on the field

Huh? I was looking for the replays, but that doesn't seem to be the case:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-481806822

Granted, it might be Showdown being Showdown since I haven't tested it on the real game yet because I'm banned and I'm waiting to see if it's a temp ban before getting a new FriendCodeSeedB

>>30224839
well nevermind i'm retarded

>>30224609
>It also OHKOs tapu koko
Was curious about that and after checking it's a very tiny 12.5% chance of the roll being in your favour. Seems more like a very welcome added bonus from nobody investing in Koko's defenses at all when it could stand to do so.

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Maybe he's just a very autistic owlfag who set himself to prove everyone who called the owl shit wrong.

>>30224889
We've seen those kinds before.

>>30224889
So much so that he did it on 2 accounts with the exact same team?

Is Choice Scarf Machamp used much? I remember he made a hit in the senior worlds back in '15.

>>30224839
Looks more like to me Torkoal is the real lynchpin of that team.

Decidueye seems like just a add on that just works due to Ghosts have shitty physical options in general making even a 1 time nuke seem useful.

>>30224889
He could also just be bad. Right now anyone can rise to the top with a gimmick. He did so. People are still feeling out the meta and aren't preparing for specific gimmick teams right now. The top ladder spot is only 1600 points or something.

>>30225009
Confusion is nerfed now so there's no point in using machamp

>>30225073
Wait confusion was nerfed?! What happened to it?

>>30225106
Only activates 25% of the time, same as paralysis but without the side bonus of speed control.

>>30225139
It's 33%. Ironically, someone ran some crazy calculations and tests and it happened more often than when it was 50%.

>>30225036
Well, no one is saying that Decidueye is the center-piece of the team. We are just trying to figure what the fuck is his role and purpose because it's not as obvious at first glance as all the others.

How do you deal with cheaters in real life?

I don't want to let pokesav cheating scumbags make a mockery of my favorite competitive game.

>>30224658
>>30224620
I always hear about this horrible NB clique and circlejerk but no one ever explains why is it bad. Are you just people mad because you aren't part of the sekrit club or what?

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I want to put Shell Smash Minior on my team somehow but I don't think it's really that viable. What do you guys think?

Either that or A-Golem.

I want the explosions. I want them so bad.

>>30225249
>Pokesav
Did I travel back to 2010?

>>30219896
I take it Pokemon with Alola Forms HAVE to be in those forms, and the originals are banned?

>>30225249
Then stop playing. I don't think there is anyone in VGC who has not hacked to get their Pokemon the way they want. Even if it's just hacking for a 6IV ditto

>>30225249
They aren't the devil like Verlis tries to make them out to be. They're just normal people, and some of them are even pretty damn cool guys and offer you feedback on your plays and team in a super nice way. I literally haven't encountered a single asshole VGC player that gens, but I have found many diehard bike simulator fans that are extremely unpleasant to talk to.

Honestly, I just accept what they do since IVs are a fucking stupid mechanic that they could've fix in SM but didn't because of reasons.

>>30225275
I've seen Explosion Silvally a few times on Showdown. I usually saw it lead with Oranguru for Trick Room.

>>30225413
they are not obtainable in game, and therefor are banned
correct me if im wrong
>>30225249
If they cheated up something tournament legal, then they are fighting fair and square. If they have illegal stats or moves or something, then you have a reason to call someone out.
If you're not planning to fight max IV'ed best moveset mons, what are you planning to fight?

>>30220210
>Krookodile

Rad, but does it do anything interesting aside from double intimidate?

I assume the Beasts are not banned, yeah? If not, I found the best use of Pheromosa and it's interesting but still conventional.

I gave it Speed swap with a high power Pokemon that can take a lot but is slow, namely things like Mudsdale and Feraligatr. Swapping out with a Bruxish or Tsareena to prevent priority is good too.

Do people run psychic terrain?

>>30225713
Lmao yeah. Tapu Lele is the best Tapu.

>>30219555
>Z-moves will be less relevant in doubles than in singles.

What? No. Z Crystals are basically nerfed Type-gems which were all over Doubles before they were removed in X/Y

>>30225437
Bottle caps almost fixed it we just need a way to get to level 100 that isn't doing the elite 4/poke plaza a million times.

>>30225958
When I first heard about Hyper Training, I was like, they finally did it, now anyone can be competitive without having to invest a ton of time. But then they just drop the ball and make bottle caps super rare, and make no realistic way for us to get to lv 100 without having to grind a fuck ton.

Such a dissapointment it'll probably be fixed in the sequel though.

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Xurkitree Discharge spam + Lanturn Volt Absorb.

>>30226094
Get's it's shit kicked in by Bulu

>>30226094
Wow, cool gimmick anon. I'm surely literally no one will realize how every single grass and ground type completely cockblocks your mad strategy. I'm sure they won't realize Lightning Rod is a thing either. You are so smart anon. You are the next Wolfe, Sejun and Ray combined.

>>30226157
Thanks man.

>>30226157
>Ray "Dare to dream ball" Rizzo

I'm seeing some synergy between Grassy terrain + Sun Day.

Which pokemon specifically could make use of this combination? I like how the Grassy Terrain makes Fires withstand Earthquake better, but I would also like to make use of the boosted Grass move 1-turn Solar Beams.. Who can do that?

>>30226217
Apparently Ray is gonna start to participate again this year. Will this year be his year? Is he, dare I say it, our boy?

>>30226245
Lurantis except with the physical solar beam she has

>>30226377
We'll see. I'll give him a fair shake, but I'm still partial to Wolfe.
Helps when he's a local boy and comes to our regionals.

>>30226245
>Chlorophyll
Exeggutor
Leafeon
Whimsicott
Lilligant

After You + Eruption Lilligant and Torkoal is pretty cool desu.

>>30226435
Sorry, meant PCs.

>>30226435
Wolfe is old and busted now that he won Worlds. Half of his charm was being the underdog who almost always did it but never did it.

I'd say Cybertron now but he's arguably the one who's gotten the most success and fame from VGC despite not winning Worlds yet so I don't feel like cheering for him.

I hope a literally who wins this year. The dicksucking and bias at World's stream from the narrators for their friends was a bit too much at times.

>>30226802
>The dicksucking and bias at World's stream from the narrators for their friends was a bit too much at times.
huh, didnt know about that.
Well I see your point, but Ray is also a world winner, right? Isn't he just the same?

>>30226923
I'd argue that Ray returning and winning after not for so long would be interesting in it's own way.

>>30226448
Normal Exeggutor is illegal. So is normal Raichu and Marowak.

Alola forms that evolve from the same base form as the normal pokemon can't be obtained.

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To those who use Tapu Bulu on their team:

How do you kill enemy A-Muk? Its only weakness is Ground and you just made it not a weakness anymore.

>>30228515
Use non-earthquake ground moves.

>>30228515
A-Marowak has ground moves that are unaffected by the terrain so I imagine that.

>>30228548
>>30228570
Oh interesting.

>>30225039
Top ladder is about 1800 actually

I start to see some games and see some Lycanroc -Midnight, what is the deal?

What's a good set for Pelipper? I haven't run this pokemon before, don't know what's good for EV investment, moves, etc. He learns Knock Off so that's pretty good.

>>30230291
Hurricane/Scald/Roost/Wide Guard is a safe bet.

252 hp and 252 sp atk/split into defenses works too.

What are some good sets for tapu bulu? I've been experimenting with a defensive set with reflect and light screen but i don't think it's working too well.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-483491941
Skillful format

>>30230560
That guy wasted years of luck there.

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>>30230560
wow.

>>30230560
Wow

>>30230560
lmao, that's literal me.

>>30230560
L M F A O

>>30230393
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQYIaS7onxM&list=PLb_5fF_O3FvhfHbt_9jMchAARiFx7b1q6&index=9

Most interesting mon that I see in high ranks 1500+:
A golisopod that wreck a lele team

A Silvally-ground doing a good work with is signature move and parting shot

A lycanroc-midnight spamming rock slide and get a lot of flinch

Glaceon+A-Ninetails winning a game

A lot of tapu fini more than other tapu

>>30231426
>Not posting the replays

>>30231426
I want to use tapu fini. Using it with a physical attacker who can't be burned or paralyzed is cool, but I can't think of who to use. Garchomp is out because of misty terrain.

>>30231649
A marowak?

>>30231710
>Using it with a physical attacker who can't be burned or paralyzed is cool, but I can't think of who to use.
Isn't that a needless worry considering Misty?

>>30230291
I think Knock Off is illegal at the moment on it, like with with Salazzle and Fake Out.

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>>30231426
Silvally is my favorite new pokemonnnn how do I use it!?

>>30231470
Im watching plays sorry

>>30231710
Marowak can't be burned or paralyzed anyway, so misty terrain becomes useless. Not really any good candidates. Mega kang would be scary next year though.

>>30231769
Z-parting shot and STAB explosion are its gimmicks, neither of which are very good in VGC. More of a battlespot pokemon.

>>30231843
>Not really any good candidates
Metagross and Scizor love the +2 from Swagger.

I'm surprised I've seen so little Metagross considering he buttfucks all the Tapus. Doesn't even has to worry about Lele like Scizor does.

>>30231943
Oh, I forgot about swagger. And metagross can't be intimidated. Definitely trying this out.

>>30231875
>neither of which are very good in VGC. More of a battlespot pokemon.
What?

>>30231649
https://youtu.be/g8k2W-LB31M?t=9m32s

>>30219488
This

>>30232088
If that was supposed to sell me on Fini it did the total opposite and sold me on Nihilego instead.

Not entirely related, but flynium Z Celesteela is the funniest shit ever.

I've been running the special set and the Z move is a good way to get the beast boost chain going early.

>>30231649
Golisopod. Does fini outslow lele?

>>30230560
Are freezing rates the same?

>>30233114
Yes, Fini is slower than lele.

Also,

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-483530839

That's one way to stop the Guru+Smeargle combo.

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What is an easy team archetype to use to get acquainted with the Doubles format? I need something that is not too complicated of gimmicky so I can just learn how to play.

I need a single target Ground move for my Rain team so I can kill shit like Muk and Nihilego. I want to run Marowak for the job but it seems like running a fire pokemon in Rain is a bad idea isn't it? so what should I do?

i need help maknig a team. I have no idea what benefits from Tapu Fini. I was thinking maybe Komala.

>>30233439
there's also mudsdale and silvally-ground

So is Thick Club Marrowak is about as meta as it gets this gen?

>>30233530
yeah pretty much

porygon2 is meta on the trick room teams as well

important to bring that knock off son

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this guy is surprisingly scary in rain

>>30233439
Maybe try Mudsdale or Snorlax? They learn High Horsepower which is just a better version of Drill Run. Although I can't guarantee they'll be good.

There is no extender item like Light Clay for Aurora Veil is there?

>>30232068
It's better for using in Singles as a bulky pivot to take advantge of Parting Shot. Use its flexibilty in typing to let it come into whatever you need to, use Parting Shot to the sweeper of your choice.

>>30233637
Yes there is.

It's called Light Clay.

What's a good counter to trick room teams? I keep getting wrecked by them on ladder.

What is Mimikyu typically used as?

Mimikyu
Magearna
Oranguru

How does my team sound so far?

>>30234019
>magearna
>vgc

>>30234019
Illegal

>>30234019
magearna is banned, you gotta find a replacement

>>30234019
is that your central core of te?

the tapu rankings so far appear to be
Lele >> Koko >>>> Bulu >>>>>>>> Fini
yes or no

>>30234019
disqualified/10

>>30234051
>>30234048
FUCK!

That ruins my plan to use it in a TR team. I don't know what else to add, but I definitely want to use Mimikyu to set trick room since it has decent speed, and use Oranguru since it'll go second and use instruct.

Maybe I can add a fake-out user?

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>>30219315
Someone should take this pic and change it to match a Tito ancient Hawaiian quote.

>>30234132
Wow nobody has ever had that idea before to use oranguru in trick room and use instruct!

>>30232088
wish i didnt forget to soft reset my nhiliego

I really like Nihilego, it's my favorite new pokemon. What kinds of things can it do?

Is it a good Scarf user? Or maybe hold light clay and set up Light Screen or Reflect?

>>30220210
what sets are the Oranguru/Smeargle/Torkoal running?
Torkoal is my friend's favorite Pokemon

>>30234484
It probably works best with this set:

Nihilego @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Life Orb Hidden Power Ice knocks out Garchomp in one hit, and does amazing super effective damage on everything weak to it.

For example:

252 SpA Life Orb Nihilego Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 174-211 (98.3 - 119.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 174-211 (102.3 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30234594
to be able to kill tapu lele with a special move is truly amazing.. gengar himself can barely do that

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>>30234594
>I got a Modest Nihilego like an idiot and didn't reset for HP Ice

how hard is it going to be to trade for that creature

>>30234080
No

>>30234725
well then, what say you anon?

>>30234594
What about using Sludge wave in conjunction with Tapu Fini since Misty Surge makes the extra 20% chance to poison pointless.

>>30234944
sludge wave is a spread move that hits your team mate.

>>30234987
I mean, you can just have Fini use protect.

>>30235005
forcing yourself to protect fini every time you want to use a poison move is really shitty. sludge wave isnt even that good since its much less likely to ohko tapu lele

>>30235076
Fair enough. How does Moonblast Muddy water hydro pump protect sound for Fini anyways?

Anyone have a squad they could pass me?

how do i deal with celesteela?

>>30235340
electric attack but really you need discharge because of marowak spam

what are some good A-Muk sets?

>>30235669
use your sweeper until he's low, Z-memento A-Muk bring him back in for another sweep

>>30232088
I want to think of some other stuff to use with the Nihilego Tapu-Fini core, because I don't want to just copy this guy's idea.

But I'm at a loss here. Maybe it'd be better to do Nihilego and Tapu Bulu instead?

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AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm running a rain team and I need a way to kill Celesteela and Metagross.
These fuckers don't die in rain.

Any ideas PLEASE?

>>30235983
Thunder would do a number over Celest.

>>30236151
No it wouldn't. Any Celesteela user brings Marowak. Is there anything that learns Thunder that can also guaranteed kill A-Marowak?

Rate my team.
Xurkitree
Tapu Koko
Oranguru
Pelipper
Marowak/Comfey
Wishiwashi
Alolan Exeggutor

>>30236291
so your issue isn't killing Celest in the rain, it's killing Celest with AMarowak.

>>30236315
ya

>>30236302
7 mons will definitely give you the edge, anon

Rate my new team
Xurkitree
Tapu Koko
Oranguru
Pelipper
Marowak/(or) Comfey
Wishiwashi/(or) Alolan Exeggutor

Rate my team

Nihilego
Tapu Bulu
Comfey
Alolgan Exeggutor
Mudsdale

and IDK as the last pokemon

Indiana is tomorrow and I'm suddenly sucking shit I'm freaking out

>>30234693
>he's not injecting his legends

c'mon kid, all of the pros do it. You wanna be a winner, dontcha?

>>30236411
>Nihilego
drop this pick up oranguru with torkal. Now ur alolan exegg can run in trick room. Drop the Mudsdale pick up A-Marowak

>>30236488
Isn't that what everyone runs though?

>>30236506
welcome to Meta

>>30236411
also drop tapu bulu pick up tapu lele

>>30236522
But keep Comfey?

>>30236570
You can drop him, hes good cause hes fast and has trick room, so he can get trick room up quick. But if your running a-exeggutor u can run trick room on that. When running trick room team you doont wanna put all your eggs on orarnguru to always come through with the trick room set up, also in case he dies and you need to set up again. Three trick room setters might be over the top so if you want you could drop comfey for a pokemon that covers your types. Maybe a water type.

>>30236658
Like Araquanid?

>>30236789
Also, I still want to use Tapu-Bulu

>>30236789
>>30236841
if u still wanna run tapu bulu then drop comfey get either arcanine or a-raichu. Leave a-eggtree

http://pastebin.com/3dE5JA7d
Team help? I'm thinking of replacing Kartana or Ribombee. I'm thinking Bulu to replace Kartana, but I'm not sure what kind of set to use. Ribombee has been a filler spot that's been filled by Ribombee, Weavile, Starmie, and A-Persian, but I'm never 100% satisfied with any of them. Maybe metagross? I have a lot of issues with intimidate and celesteela specifically.

How's Metagross in this format?

>>30236999
Why A-Raichu?

What would be a good moveset/suggested allies for a Crobat w/ Taunt?

>>30237050
grassy terrain halves the damage of EQ thats why you want pokemon weak to it on your team. Pokemon like A-raichu, marowak, and arcanine are good for this. A-raichu can run fake out support

>>30237116
Could I just drop Torkoal and Oranguru for better type coverage?

Why would you ever run A-Exxegutor with a Tapu if you need Trick Room?

>>30237138
if you do that i would drop the a-exeggutor since it would only be good in trick room. So you could pick up the comfey again as a support mon and keep the a-eggtree as now you have 2 possible trick room setters. But if you want more coverage or pokemon that work well with tapu bulu. You also will lose your sun setter so arcanine and marowak who wont be as good anymore without sun or trick room, you might wanna drop him now

Does ASandslash have a place in this meta? Or does its typing hold it back?

New team

Tapu Bulu
Torkoal
Oranguru
Marowak
Exeggutor
Raichu

How does that sound?

Would Komala be a good addition to a electric terrain team as a stall/wall breaker?

>>30237283
Pretty good starting vgc17 team. Play around with this and see if some pokemon are not pulling their weight. Maybe during a match you might think "I Wish I had this pokemon right now" and then you start modifying the team to fit the meta.

>>30237415
What should I add to this team of

Tapu Koko
Pelipper
Raichu
Komala
Marowak

I'm considering Celesteel

Just faced a team with a blissey set that had Guard Swap, Minimize, Rest, and Ice Beam. Dude guard swapped a carbink and then proceeded to time me out because I wasn't running haze or roar.

Moral of the story is to always run some minimize checks because that shit is awful

File: Screen Shot 2016-11-26 at 2.30.39 AM.png (21KB, 466x108px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 466x108px

I need a way to kill walls dead

Is Xurkitree worth using on a team?

>>30238019
>>>/spg/

I kinda want to try out a Buzzwole TR team. Anyone know good mons for it?

>>30237242
Watch out for Marowak and Arcanine who seem to be on everyone's teams

Oranguru/Gigalith/Celesteela/Lele for TR Sand shenanigans.
Oranguru can set up infront of Smeargle thanks to Inner Focus and that Instruct+Rock Slide combo.
Lele is to stop priority from messing with the TR set up. Celesteela is for Sand and typing synergy. Main weakenesses appear to be Muk and anything with a Water or Ground move. Trying to find more mons to balance it out, perhaps even a Ground type to further take advantage of the sand and to deter away Torkoal and Muk some more but that doesn't remove my Ground weakeness. I guess Lele can Thunderbolt any water threats such as the other Tapu. I wish there were more viable Lightning rod stuff to protect Celesteela.

>>30238967
A strong Chompy can ruin the team as well, only failing due to TR. Perhaps running a slower Chomp can work out but it won't do well against the Tapu.
Toge has Lightning Rod and is a Steel/Electric type so it could protect Celesteela from electric moves and run in the sand. However that really opens up the fire weakeness and a mudslap could come out and destroy Toge.
Perhaps run a Toge/Ground type depending on the opponent's set up. If they have Water/Electric mons you can utilize Toge but if there are more Fire based core use Ground/Gigalith. Garchomp or Mudsdale maybe.

>>30238967
Marowak

>>30239208
Marowak doesn't solve the weakenesses, it in fact is weak to both Ground and Water. Is that because of type synergy reasons? Also due to the lack of steel type killing?
Wouldn't an Arcanine run better for walling? You can't run too many physical mons thanks to Intimidate being a staple.
Toge with Fake out/Nuzzle/Wish as an aide but runs poorly with Lele. Mudsdale can run Roar as well which can come in handy against Baton passing.

>>30239285
No it's cause it gets lightning rod

I'm actually surprised that there are actual good discussion here. What happened in VGC '16?

>>30239732
It was shit.

>>30237283
What's this team's out to a Tapu?

>>30231649
Bruh.
Swagger.