gen 7 VGC

remove genies
remove tapu
remove ultra beasts

just remove them

i'm so sick of this shit

I miss gen 4

What's a good set for Celesteela? All I've seen so far on showdown were Heavy Slam, Leech Seed, Protect, Wide Guard, and the occasional Flamethrower

>>30203981
autotomize + heavy slam

>>30203950
best gen
even with Garchomp

Nigga this is the previous thread. >>30120417 Whatever.

I can't seem to find a good pokemon with single target GROUND attack that can 2hko or ohko Nihilego, xurkistree, and Tapu Koko. Help?

Mimikyu wrecks things. Anyone know the best set to run with it? Play Rough/Shadow Claw/ Shadow Sneak/?

>>30204090
that thread has 35 replies
>>30195920 reached bump limit

also dude have you not heard of marowak at all
>252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 186-220 (128.2 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>30203928
I'm playing VGC on showdown and all my team concepts are pretty bad.

How do you start making a good team?
On paper the ultra beasts look really good but in practice they are not that good.
And on paper tapu koko looked kinda mediocre to me but in practice he is very ridiculously good.

>>30204090
>>30204280
fucking hell i can't even paste right
>252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 158-186 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Does anybody have a cloned or such 6IV Ditto for me to start with the breeding and such?

this is the first time im gonna try and git gud so in general i guess tips for a newb who was going to try in gen 6 but gave up after ORAS came out

>>30203950
>I miss gen 4

>TR Cresselia + Explosion Heatran, the meta

Gen 3 had the best doubles, spread moves dealt only 50% damage and Earthquake could hit at full power. No Rage Powder, no Amoonguss with Spore, no Hyper Voice spam, no Trick Room.

The best.

>>30204090
Marowak bonemerang or mudsdale horse move

~~QUESTION~~

If you use z-move on a multi-target move, it just becomes a single target move with higher BP doesn't it? Or does it stay multi-target?

Im running a Bulu/A-Marowak/Gyarados/Celesteela team, still don't sure about other two for coverage types any suggestion? Thanks a lot in advance (Sets are very standard)

>>30204306
Start with one pokemon you want in your team.

Add poke that checks its weaknesses

Rinse and repeat.

Example. Start with blastoise, Weaknesses are Elec/grass so a Camerupt would be a nice second slot. As you add think about what each poke needs to do and keep balance. Switch em up as you see needs that arent being filled in your team and then eventually you'll have a good team to start with.

from there battle on battle spot until you see a weakness in your team. Fix that adn try again.

a good way to do this is to keep a battle notebook

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>>30203928
I have a concept for a Gravity based team that uses moves like Hypnosis, Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, Blizzard, Thunder, First Blast.

But, I don't know if this is viable? Is this just a noob concept that won't actually work because it's not worth the setup time of 1 turn?

>>30204310
Nice, I overlook the thick club boost.

>>30203928
Crazy concept here:

Get a UB or other sweeper out on the floor, bring out Smeargle or Ditto afterwards, Transform into your ally. Now you have 2 of them. Copies all stat boosts etc.

Ya ya it's probably shitty and unviable but it's just an idea I had.

>>30204310
why would you run stomping tantrum isntead of bonemarang?

>>30204438
Anon, by the time you did all of that, the opponent would set up something/kill everything you had

>>30204360
You need a Fire attack and an Electric attack and a Poison attack and an Ice attack.

>>30204454
If they block with protect, which is very common, it move get double power.
Some anon did calc and you don't miss any 2HKO by switching.

>0 HP/Def
Why would anyone run that

What's a good set for the following Ultra Beasts? I just caught them and I need to find some good moves.

>Timid Nihilego
>Adamant Buzzwole

And if you guys could help me hammer out a good set for Xurkitree, you guys would also be doing me a massive favor.

I can't think of a good Pokémon to center my team around. All the Pokémon I want to use are self sufficient like Nihilego

>>30204395
Passive gravity ability, the dream.

I'm actually quite interested in Gravity as well, since not having my Celesteela get the grassy terrain heal is annoying.

>>30204521
cover the ground, water, psychic weakness

>>30204497
100 Atk Mudsdale High Horsepower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 308-366 (109.2 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

100 Atk Mudsdale High Horsepower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 976-1152 (271.1 - 320%) -- guaranteed OHKO

100 Atk Mudsdale High Horsepower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 356-422 (115.5 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Better?

>>30204469
>100 Atk Mudsdale High Horsepower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 356-422 (115.9 - 137.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Too bad Xurkitree has access to Energy Ball and Grass Knot along with Tail Glow and a monstrously high base Sp. Attack stat.

>>30204548
Tapu Bulu for one, maybe Togedemaru for zing zap and nuzzle shenanigans?

>>30203484
idk about doubles, but its a pain in the ass in singles. So far my best answer to it has been specs volcanion who can switch in on scald and ohko with earth power after rocks. Also puts a huge hole in fini and kills bulu with sludge bonb

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>>30204391
Well okay, that sounds easy enough.

I have this idea for the "no damage allowed" team. It will start with Light Screen + Intimidate or something. Is this a bad idea? I could use Klefki for the Light Screen and Arcanine for the Intimidate, and Arcanine can Snarl too.

I'm also interested in Aurora Veil for this kind of team, but I don't know if A-Ninetales is a good pokemon.

>>30204606
How would you win then anon?

>>30204589
Tapu Bulu + Nihilego seems to have good synergy

>>30204621
Bring out a sweeper that does high damage and needs to be focused down, but can't be focused down due to the anti-damage moves I used. That's the hardest part I don't know about.

>>30204603
Komala actually wrecks Toxapex in singles

>>30204603
Tapu Lele OHKOs toxapex

>>30204562
252+ SpA Life Orb Xurkitree Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 132+ SpD Assault Vest Mudsdale: 109-130 (52.6 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Xurkitree Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ SpD Assault Vest Mudsdale: 146-172 (70.5 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mudsdale Highhorse Power vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 170-204 (107.5 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mudsdale still Ko back

>>30204626
The fuck is my win condition though?

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>>30203928
How good is this motherfucker? Seems to have good potential with dat signature move.

>>30204667
Attack, kill.

That's the apex of strategy in VGC17. This meta is trash.

>>30204606
I just fought against someone like that on showdown actually. He used all the anti-damage to get his cosmic power clefable up and running. I couldn't kill it and he just swept me with stored power. I felt like a scrub, didn't know how to counter it. I had steel and poison moves on my team but they weren't enough to kill. Not even heavy slam from my celesteela could do over 35% after it had a cosmic power + reflect up

>>30204438
This was viable when Dark Void would buy you time, but nowadays it's impossible.

>>30204641
Thanks to you i just found out that komala is immune to status effects, thats so cool even for a kinda meh pokemon

>>30204713
Komala @ Leftovers
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Earthquake

aka "fuck you Toxapex"

>>30204732
shit imma get on training a cute fucker right now

>>30204667
>win condition

Verlis kill yourself

>>30204732
The boss.

>>30204782
??? Aren't win cons a thing in doubles? Like setting up trick room and having a good abuser.

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>>30203928
Sup guys, I come from Singles and I'm wondering how good FireWaterGrass cores, and the like, are in Doubles.

The hardest part for me to get used to in Doubles is the pace change. It is much faster and games last less than 15 turns a majority of the time.

Since you have to have 2 on the field, does that mean your FireWaterGrass core is worse than in singles? The whole point of FWG core I think is to be able to switch and absorb dangerous attacks, but that seems less possible in doubles

>>30204813
He is saying stop using Epic Gamer Terminology and just use simple terms because you sound gay right now

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>>30203928
I want to use grassy terrain + sun (nice synergy) but torkoal is a shitmon. Wat do?

should i just give up on it?

>>30204876
"Win condition" is epic gamer teminology? What?

>>30204914
ya basically.

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>>30204876
What the fuck else do you call it? It's a win condition. If the condition is fulfilled, I win. Fuck you, stop thinking everything is a meme.

>>30204934
People have been using the term in MTG since I was a kid though.

>>30204904
Use regular ninetails. Not much better though.

>>30204986
That's not legal until january...

>Metagross or Kartana ...scizor?
>Tapu Koko Scarfed, what speed tier should I aim, Pheromosa's?
>Parasect in Rain team, Rage powder, wideguard, Leech life, and protect.
>Marowak in a rain team????
>Pelipper and Banded Poliwrath- Earthquake, Waterfall, Brick Break... and?

A dumbass making a rain team right here.
Help?
>Tfw there is no Mega Swampert when you finally have Flying-drizzlemon.

>>30204970
Yeah like fuck off. I hear that shit thrown around in every TCG.

Any guides I can read as an intro to doubles? I've only ever really stuck to good ol' smogon singles and I'm looking to try something else

>>30204962
>not thinking everything is a meme

even life itself is a meme

>>30204999
Can't you breed with an everstone to get a kanto version? Something about an everstone, I'm not sure.

>>30205011
You sound like a child.

>>30205022
Yes, but the everstone needs to be on a normal vulpix.

>>30205022
alola form breeds = alola form
kanto form breeds = alola form
kanto form breeds holding everstone = kanto form

Apparently I fucked up getting Sun because the best UBs are all in Moon. Goddamnit.

>>30205028
Oh.

Alright alright, how is everybody faking out? there is limited distribution in vgc 17. best user i can see it.. a-raichu if i'm not mistaken?

Is fake out going to become much less popular due to tapu lele?

>>30205042
Also, normal raichu and exeggute never ever

>>30205038
They're all shit anyway aside from about 2 of em. They only look good on paper. Use them in real battles and see what happens. They are so predictable due to shit movepool

>>30204652
Lele is counterproductive for me cause I'm running a DeoSharp type team but with Skarmory instead of Deoxys.

Good to know for a balance team though

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>>30203928
How good is Best Strategy AKA trick room in gen VII?

>>30205083
I dunno, I would say Pheromosa and Celesteela are godlike, Nihilego and Kartana are pretty fantastic too

The only really underwhelming ones are Guzzlord and Buzzwole

What's a good support Comfey set?
Comfey @ Leftovers
Triage
Calm
252 HP/244 SpDef/12 SpAtk
Helping Hand
Synthesis
Draining Kiss
Floral Healing

Sounds really annoying with Tapu Bulu since Floral Healing heals 100% in Grassy Terrain

>>30205119
Kartana is utter fucking tripe mate.

>>30204705
brutal

>>30205129
Maybe run its own Grassy Terrain just in case since it's almost useless without it.

So far I am sure that Rain + Electric terrain is a viable strategy.

Not so sure on the viability of Sunny Day.

Not sure sure on the viability of Hail. I have to do more testing with Aurora veil to know, but Ninetales's newfound strength is promising.

Tapu Bulu feels stronger than given credit for, but unsure about how to best use Grassy Terrain.

Any other break-away strategies you guys have seen/discovered?

>>30204668
I wanna try this one with Shell Trap and Ally Switch

>>30205110
Pretty good, but slow ass pokemon is allover the place.
My brave hariyama is 'under'speed by Torkoal, Gigalith, Marowak, and shit, and they are not even running a trick room team.
Fake-out is also disrupted by Psyterrain, which is annoying when setting up on the first turn.
Fuck, Toxapex and mudsdale is slow af aswell.

>>30205206
Run over what? Helping Hand seems like the one that won't affect it the most as it needs self healing with Synthesis, needs Draining Kiss to make Waifu Bug fuck off, and Floral Healing is the primary reason to even consider running Comfey

>>30205227
It's cute but probably not worth the turns used for it.

>>30205207
>Not so sure on the viability of Sunny Day.

I've been playing with Trick Room sun teams with a Mudsdale, Torkoal + Trevenant core. It's fairly sturdy but it needs heavy spread moves, which is hard to get in VGC17.

>>30205230
Gigalith is popular? People are really running sandstorm right now?

wtf does an alolan sandstorm team look like? as far as I know there are no sand streamers and even sand force is rare

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Sup guys I'm undercover pretty good

>>30205308
But gigalith is a sand streamer

>>30205119
Gee and which game has the two godlike UBs?

>>30205358
I don't believe you

>>30205308
No, they're only using it to disrupt aurora veil BS.
Gigalith is so shit, doesn't have the utility of Hippowdon and Tyranitar's movepool.

At least Assault vest/Black Sludge Nihilego is working-ish.

>>30205176
>Kartana manages to be average with 181 attack and 109 speed

this fucking gen man

>>30205493
He's meh in doubles because he only has low BP attacks and contributes nothing in terms of spread moves

>>30204512
I don't try Nihilego yet, but Buzzwole is very good in AV, there is the set that I experiment:
Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch

>>30205010
>Metagross or Kartana?
Kartana if you want sweeper, if not Celesteela overpass both by kilometers
>Tapu koko scarfed
Not big fan of scarfed koko, but I think is outspeed almost everything, but better run a damage booster item
>Parasect
Is the best option for powder right now
>Marowak
Maybe something else, but still a good mon
>Pelipper and banded Poliwrath
Pelipper is the option for rain setter this year, but I don't know about Poliwrath, not big fan anyways.

>>30205013
Read oldmanvgc, Nuggetbridge (only the guides and blogs, the community is very trash tbqh)

>>30205038
Kartana and Buzzwole are kinda okish? Still can have some use, try them

>>30205059
Im runnin' a AV fake out/snarl A-Persian and jesus, he win me a lot of games.

>>30205110
Face a lot of TR teams, they are doing pretty well with a lot of pokemon to support the mechanic, most common right now for lead is something with follow me+Oranguru, hariyama is also good,also support with a weather setter, sun is the most common that I see (sand the second one)

>>30205308
Gigalith is the sand setter right now

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What goes well with Lucario in ALOLa?

I'm not a faggot, it's a girl

>>30205652
The only lucario that I see, was one in a Minimize abuser team, and her was ther only for use follow me.

>>30205594
Is parasect actually not terrible?
How do you run it?

>>30205945
Generally with rain, mostly just as a redirector of things that can live a hit with sash and then spore shit.

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Why is VGC so bad every year? We all know this gen is going to look like shit too.

I want to go back to cozy gen 4 dubs

Can someone help me make a team centered around Tapu Bulu? What movesets are good for him? What Pokemon work well with Grassy Terrain? I'm considering Comfey, but I don't know who else.

>>30206625
it's not though, as everyone said the ultra beasts are predictable as fuck and (except for celesteela) will be phased out of the meta as it settles

the tapus are better, but won't be near as bad as the genies

it's a really good meta if you actually play it and try some fun things out

>>30207861
I'm having moderate success with a team of tapu bulu, xurkitree, assvest incineroar, aerodactyl, Ddos and scarfchomp. Basically you get a tailwind off and start spamming hueg damage. If anything goes wrong you can at least try fishing for flinches with fast rock slides

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>Been trying out Fini+Swag
>It's not working as well as it should
W-What went wrong lads? She was supposed be OUR gal! She was supposed to rise from the bottom as the most underrated Tapu!

>>30206625
>Why is VGC so bad every year?
Because you faggots never cease to complain no matter what.

I remember when people were saying that this year VGC was gonna be good because muh aloladex only means it'll be as good as VGC14 thank you Pachirisu-sama we'll truly have a balanced and varied meta this time. How easily and quickly you changed your tune.

>I want to go back to cozy gen 4 dubs
Oh boy Explosion - The Game. Sure was cozy and balanced and full of variety.

Throw yourself to your nearest river and drown yourself already.

>>30208063
>it'll be as good as VGC14
This is true though.

So is anyone here going to the London International?

What are some good natures to run on Xurkitree? Modest of course comes to mind to make sure he wipes out everything, but maybe a bulky max HP/Speed Timid could be interesting too, especially since you're golden once you get Beast Boost off.

>>30207958
Details on the Incineroar?

>>30208260
Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Def / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Snarl
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat

EVs are kind of a mess since the meta is still underdeveloped to tinker them to survive certain moves. Enough speed to outspeed base 110s after a tailwind. Once intmidate is released I might switch the gyarados out for a different bulky water type.

>>30208369
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-483027219
this replay is kind of significant I guess, since it lived a HJK from pheromosa after intimidate. It is also a testament to rock slide being the best move in the game

>>30208438
Intimidate incineroar when?

>>30208456
I hope soon, it would be basically an Arcanine with fake out and better coverage

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Never been much into doubles, but trying to get into it with S/M, a dumb question: is there any way to make Lycanroc (Day) viable in the format?

Can anyone recommend me a pokemon that will cover my lack of fire?

>>30208824
Torkoal, Arcanine, Flareon, Magmortar, Talonflame, Incineroar, Salazzle, Sylvally (Fire) are the allowed fire types this year.

Do you need just fire coverage or do you also need fire to cover defensive holes too? If only the former you could try something like Celesteela or Mence instead.

>>30208868
I want to run Mence, but I can't figure out what kind I should run.
I'm trying a choice scarf special based one, but that ok at best.
What a generally good moveset for that guy?

>>30208456
Saving it for Pokemon Stars xD

>>30208892
Can't go wrong with Z-Meteor.

Just pack a lot of Tapu killers so you can Meteor without worry.

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Give it to me straight doc

Will he be good?

>>30208063
>Throw yourself to your nearest river and drown yourself already.
Only right answer for anyone who liked Doubles before Gen 5.

It is a archaic mess with little in the way of team archetypes and made up of almost nothing but metagross + box legendaries and little in actual selection. Only thing worse than it was ORAS 2015/16. God last year really was a shithole of a format.

>>30208026
95 base speed and being weak to the most popular offensive types at the moment (grass/poison/elec) doesn't exactly help. She's too quick for TR and far too slow for regular use with little offense.

Milotic is basically more useful far as bulky water types go right now being able to fuck up Intimidate users.

>>30208689
Rockslide and pray spam is pretty much it, it's basically one of the fastest things in the whole meta right now and it isn't a slouch offensively. But it lacks support options and coverage, Quick Guard, Taunt and Crunch/Sucker Punch is about all it has for variety and Koko is still faster.

>>30208951
no
baracat is the best starter

>>30208951
He's too slow for something that frail

>>30208951
Nope.

I was going to say you could probably use it defensively but then saw its a grass type that doesn't learn Leech Seed. Fucker doesn't even learn most of the grass or ghost support staples, Taunt, WoW, Shadow Sneak, Spite, Destiny Bond, Giga Drain, Stun Spore.

If you want a Grass/Ghost use Dhelmise, better coverage and offensive stats, they really dropped the ball with Decidueye. Maybe better luck when move tutors come round.

>>30208921
I run Alolan-Muk with Z-Gunk Shot to kill Tapu.
Should I run two Z- Crystals?

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>>30208951
>Slow frail mixed attacker

Weird question, but are WiFi doubles also going to have fps this fucking shit?

Holy fuck.

>>30209553
The framerate is half the reason I will be messing with VGC until the Switch.

It's absolutely insanely poor.

>>30209657
will NOT be messing with*

>>30209553
>>30209657
>caring about fps drops in a turn-based game
wew

>>30209553
>>30209657
I thought I heard that it was fine in battlespot somehow?

>>30208951
Inciniroar won the starter bowl.

Why the fuck is breeding/EVing/IVs so obtuse again.

I didn't like ORAS much but it actually allowed people to get Pokemon legally without too much hassle.

Back to PKHex it is I guess.

>>30209757
It takes like 7 minutes to EV Train with a Power Item/Pokerus and SOS chaining.

>>30209757
>EVing/IVs
>Obtuse
It can literally be unlocked to show up onto the status summary screen

>>30209765
I find it's way more annoying to finetune a spread in SuMo compared to ORAS.

Also how do I level up Pokemon as fast as with Blissey bases in this?

>>30209757
Wait till Powersave gets some more codes and go with that.

>>30209553
>>30209657
It's fine in battle tree doubles for me on the N3DS. I dunno how much lag WiFi adds, if any. I remember doubles laggin hard in ORAS for me, tho.

>>30204336
becomes single-target

>>30209813
>not being able to inject

>>30209757
>coming up with excuses to cheat
lel it's just as easy as it was in ORAS faggot

>>30209836
Tell me how to level as quickly as with Blissey bases then?

>>30209791
Vitamins + Isle Evelup is perfect for fine tuning
>SuMo
never post again

tbf his question about blissey bases hasnt been answered but that always felt a little cheaty to me anyways.

>>30209999
They prolly didn't intend for people to abuse the bases that hard. But that's what they get for rushing their game out. Now we're getting punished with no good method to level to 100.

What are the best Celesteela and Bulu natures?

>>30209833
is injecting for gen7 Pokemon out?

>>30210080
It's harder than it was in Gen 6
From what I gather, QR code injection only works through a special homebrew app, and only on New 3DS
The more common way is to use homebrew to export your save file, edit it with pkhex, then re-import it with homebrew.

>>30210163
Ah, pkhex does support gen7 already right?

>>30210163
Nope.
Just put a special code.bin on your SD card then scan them with the ingame QR code scanner.
Very simple provided you have cfw anyways

Will Ash-Greninja be usable?

>>30210213
it's banned

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>tfw had an old gimmicky Probopass team taking advantage of Wide Guard + Thunder Wavew that worked to mild success last gen
>try to make a version of it here, but notice Paralysis isn't as much of a boon due to less speed overall and a lot more electrics
>Fairy/Dragon resists aren't as valued here either

Do I give up or retool into Gravity. I noticed only it and Gigalith get Gravity+Wide Guard and I don't feel like setting up Sand when I want to pair it up with Tapu Bulu

>>30210213
Greninja isn't in the Alola dex so it's banned by default anyway

>>30209183
Muk does not need Z-power to 1-shot tapus

I know everyone had a meltdown over Gengar losing Meditate, but considering how big a deal terrain is this gen (and how Bulu will likely decrease how much we see EQ) is it a stealth buff?

Psychic terrain is the only one that really benefits him.

>>30210319
Err Levitate, fuck it's too early.

Regardless, Gengar/Bulu would totally shit on Katana/Lele. Can't be HJKd by Katana, can shit on Lele with Sludge Wave.

>>30204463
So Salazzle and Lanturn/Starmie?

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What's are the best allowed pokemon that abuse sunny day?

>>30210372
>Kartana
>HJK
I know what you mean but you're right. It IS too early. Go to bed anon.

>>30210446
Torkoal+Oranguru is a common pairing for sun teams

Double eruption in trick room is great

How long is VGC 2017 gonna last?

I wanna play it a little but it'll probably be a few weeks before I can really get started, maybe even a month.

The ruleset after this one is going to be cancer again so if I miss this one I might just not bother.

>>30204858
Try a 2-mon core, something like steel/fairy.

is there any youtube channel or place to check for inspiration? would like to see what pokemon are being used.

not even really interested in playing but vgc is an interesting meta and i enjoy watching it despite me playing smogon formats more.

>>30210469
it's going to be relevant till mid-august, you have plenty of time

>>30210467
Lol how do they make sure TR even gets up? Every time I see Oranguru on the enemy team I make sure to bring a strong bug STAB to OHKO it.

>>30208951
Highest ranked team on the Showdown ladder, who is a good player at local events too, uses Decidueye.

>>30210532
If they play it right they can still get it up. If they try to set it up guns blazing it's probably not gonna work out though. Especially if you bring Pheromosa.

>>30210575
Post the team pls

>>30210609
It's some Oranguru/Drampa TR shit.

I'll post it when I get home.

Decidueye uses Z-Ghostium with Leaf Blade/Spirit Shackle/some other hsit.

>>30210454
Thanks my dude. Please investigate further

>>30210532
>You can stop people strategies if you bring a counter to them
Woooooooow

Just because to keep fighting sub 1200 shitters who leave their Oranguru in front a Buzzwole or something else that will OHKO them doesn't mean everyone else is as retarded too.

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I thought this thing was going to be broken but in practice, it's really not that bad. It's so frail it dies to any stray hit. Any priority and any Scarf fucks it up.

>>30210673
It's still good though, All-Out Pummeling does like 75% to Celesteela.

I was super surprised to discover something REALLY interesting today, there are actually new held items, basically seeds for every terrain, like Psychic seed, Electric seed etc. those things activate in terrains and immediately boost special defense or defense.

http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/psychicseed.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/electricseed.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/grassyseed.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/mistyseed.shtml

I think there is tons of possibilities for these items, what do you guys think?

>>30204858
Dragon/steel/fairy core is beast, specially using both salamence and m-mawile with intimidate.
I miss m-mawile.

>>30210673
Frail and fast sweepers have always been SHIT in doubles. Bulky offense is and has always been king in it.

Even Deoxys-A is something like B rank in Smogon Doubles. If not even Deoxys-A can rise to the top nothing else will.

>>30210664
Bug is SE against all TR setters (mimikyu, oranguru, exeggutor). It's easy to bring one bug attack that kills all 3. And if you plan to get TR down, the rest of your team is slow so you can't just switch out and hope to win. What's your plan?

>>30210673
That's why it gets paired with Lele, to prevent getting that priority fucking

>>30210493
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i75LhOAHus

This guys is pretty solid, I haven't seen any of the "pro players" posting any battle videos yet, I think Wolfe will upload some soon though.

>>30210748
Mimikyu quad resists bug moves.

>>30210721
>Bulky offense is and has always been king in it.
Is that because bulky pokemon require the focus of 2 enemy pokemon, leaving the field partner to do what it wants and get free hits?

I didn't know that about Deoxys-A. That really says something about how fast Doubles is.

What would be the premier bulky pokemon then? I would assume Mudsdale, Drampa, probably Turtonator, and maybe even Buzzwole?

>>30210767
same thing

>>30209061
Lycanroc anon here, I see. Would it be viable to do something with sand, or doubles aren't too kind for the weather stuff? And I guess only Gigalith right now can set it, so might not be worth it?

>>30210673
>>30210757
Seems good with Lele and maybe a Focus Sash

>>30210757
I've been playing that meme opening since last thread and even at the shithead ranks for 110-1300, people were beating it with random openings of their own. It's not as solid as it looks on paper. The main problem is that Pheromosa dies to a wind's breeze, so if Pheromosa fails to OHKO and tapu lele doesn't go second, Phero dies automatically.

>>30210787
Also you can outplay with Protect if you think they're gonna gang up on you.

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>>30210748
>Mimikyu
>Weak to bug

>And if you plan to get TR down, the rest of your team is slow so you can't just switch out and hope to win.
Scrub detected. Literally no half decent player makes TR teams without packing at least one or two fast or mid-speed that can work in and out of TR.

>What's your plan?
Fake Out and redirection. You know, the same as it's ever been done to set-up Trick Room. You make it sound like Gen 7 invented Bug types or something.

Furthermore, you seem to forget that TR setters also have a partner. I can simply Protect on your obvious super duper bug move, even better if you try to gang up on him, and the partner kill the obvious threat to the setting up of TR.

>>30210837
Ohhh OK that does make sense. Protect is a very strong move, yes. If you predict correctly you get a free turn. I am still learning doubles.

You could do something like Swords dance 1 turn, then the enemy starts freaking out, you protect on that pokemon and the field partner gets a free move.

>>30204236
Nigger toss sword dance on him. His ability gives him free set up. That or Z Splash for giggles.

>>30210806
How is it the same thing.

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1100: Simply shitmons not even used in a niche position. You will see all type of garbage.
>Examples: They bring 3 pokemon weak to ground against your garchomp.

1200: People starting to craft teams with a strategy in mind. Most of the time, the strategy is shitty, executed in a heavy-handed manner, very obvious in team preview what the enemy plans to do.
>Examples: Poor man's Trick Room, Sun teams, start to see some UBs and Tapus

1300: Now begins the reign of the UBs. Each team will have 2 to 4 UBs and 1 Tapu on it. People at this level still have not realized the subtleties of Doubles battling and will fail to use important moves like Protect when it matters, or fail to include the move at all on pokemon that should have it.
>Examples: Xurkitree, Pheromosa, Celesteela, Kartana, Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko

1400: Cutoff point where "real teams" begin. People begin to realize that UBs are not as good as they seem. Teams will have 1 Tapu pokemon, a clear team strategy, executed generally well but may make mistakes in execution or have bad turns that cost them the game. They realize how important Protect can be. Still cannot use pokemon that require "finesse" in execution, such as A-Persian.
>Only 1 UB on the team, 1 Tapu who is well-supported, good opening, starting to predict opponents

1500: People now fully realize that UBs have 3 total moves of a shitty attacking type & all of those moves are 80 BP or less, which makes them equivalent to any regular pokemon with 110 Atk and access to Close Combat. You will see no UBs at all at this level, save for the stray Celesteela or Xurkitree. Every team here has realized the real kings of this generation: Tapus.
>fully supported Tapu of choice not done in an ostentatious way (AKA they don't bring Tapu Koko + 5 pokemon that benefit from Electric Terrain lol)

1600: No UBs at all. "Graceful" pokemon that accomplish a job like A-Persian are meta dominators.

1700: nobody reached it yet

>>30211517
Accurate.

I don't understand your boner for A-Persian though.

How should a complete beginner get started with VGC? Should I just get my ass kicked on Showdown until I pick up some basics?

>>30210673
I wanna try dicking around with speed swapping that monstrous speed.

>>30211666
>Should I just get my ass kicked on Showdown until I pick up some basics?
That's the best way to learn.

Also, read the stuff on that thread in this post >>30204090

What are the bet sets for Phermosa and Lele? Thinking of doing running Battle Tree with them. Anything I should know in term so moveset?

>>30211694
Cool, thanks

Havent looked at the thread yet so idk if this has been brought up or not but...

I havent played any competive yet. Need to finish ev training and leveling my team first. My worry is that most teams i fight will be 3-4 UBs, 1-2 Tapus, and pseudo. Is that a legitimate worry to have? Are they as OP as people claim? Should i restructure my team for the sole purpose of beating UBs?

>>30211845
>Havent looked at the thread yet so idk if this has been brought up or not but...
Then read it fuckmunch.

Learn how to write like a normal human being too.

>>30211741
Pheromosa - don't use it.

Lele - modest specs or timid scarf

>>30211861
I think he's writing like normal human being. Did you take your autism pills today yet anon?

>>30211517
A-Persian really isn't that hard to use, lol.

>>30205308
Gigalith is only usable by the virtue of him being the only sand setter in the meta, and also being the 2nd slowest weather setter so if you predict them using a weather lead you can cuck them with a terrible matchup.

Gigalith+Oranguru is a pretty sick nasty lead pair, mental herb Guru with inner focus is basically the only TR setter that guarantees you get your TR turn one unless they have two powerful physical attacks to bring him down. Weakness policy Gigalith also has a good matchup against every other weather setter.

Instruct+rock slide absolutely annihilates any lead combo with no wide guarder on the second turn. 4 flinch chances is literally the most cancerous garbage ever. Wide guard does completely shut him down but most weather leads lack it.

>>30211871
It should be OK for Battle Tree since they don't use Tapus and can't get rid of Psychic Terrain 1st turn.

What kind of spreads do people use for Oranguru?

>>30212041
Pelipper gets Wide Guard

>>30212041
Seeing that weather is kinda staple in this meta, would it be worth doing anti-weather?

Only ones with Cloud Nine are Golduck and Drampa, though.

Which Tapu would be better for a rain team, Bulu or Koko? So far my team is Scizor, Gyarados and Pelipper. Should I just use both?

>>30212333
What would you do with Bulu on your rain team?

>>30212487
Not him, but resist Grass/Electric attacks I assume?

>>30212333
Koko could drop insane Thunders with rain, but that'd also mean if someone else is rocking Thunder you're gonna get fucked. Bulu is probably not smart since only Scizor would benefit

>>30212487
Kill shit, the rain is there to reduce fire damage on him.

Wait up, Z-moves go through protect (do 25% damage) and can't miss?

What is the interaction with Substitute?

>>30212878
subs and mimikyu's ability totally absorb them.

>>30212878
They can miss.

>>30208689
I try, but not with much sucess

I'm sick of Minimize shenanigans, about to bring a 'mon just to fuck it over. What works best?

I'm thinking Taunt and Rest combo with possibly a Toxic to stall them out end game, but I still need something to KO Clefables. What works best and could still be useful to my team? I'm looking for something probably bulky but still faster than all the minimize fags (shouldn't be hard due to them not investing in speed at all)

>>30212936
Nope they can't. They are 100% accuracy regardless of enemy's evasion level.

>>30213165
Use a Z-Move from a boosted attacker. Swords dance + anything Z-move.

>>30208824
>>30208868
Don't forget A-marowak, one of the best fire mon in alola, if you're not running other intimidate user arcanine is your choice (till baracat gets his HA), Silvally fire can work with parting shot.

>>30209183
A-muk don't need z-crystal, run another.

>>30209674
>>30209815
In my o3ds run ok, only problem with doubles in game and totem battles, your connection may affect it too.

>>30210060
Bulu adamant or if you running TR brave (AV sassy), celesteela have a lot of sets, tell me what do you want to run, and I can help

>>30210469
Almost a year, give it a shot, for my experience is one of the best format to the day, very fun to play

>>30210493
I would do a guide wait a little, Im working on it, I see a lot of new people asking for help

>>30211661
Good fake out user, decent stats, and have snarl, win me a lot of games,

>>30212487
Are you serious Bulu is a beast under rain

>>30213350
I assume most people hack for their perfect Tapus?

>>30209999
NicE numbers

Do you still need to soft reset the legends and tapu's?

>>30209999
>>30210050
better get to work on them 5 star rare kitchens

>>30213445
It's probably safer to catch a legit one and hack in gold bottle caps

You've got to be an idiot to hack something that can be picked up by the hack checker, but a lot of people slip up
I'm a registered VGC judge and I've DQd a few people, usually dumb shit like Event Dialga without HA and a Fake Out Raichu that was marked as "caught" in Lumiose City

>>30213350
VGC for news
>Where I can read

http://www.oldmanvgc.com/

A place with a lot sets and some comments about them, they are Japanese players, take on mind that don’t have new teams, but give you a idea about how EVs works

http://nuggetbridge.com/

A site with a lot of reports of tournaments, guides (don’t use the forums is very bad tbqh, they are some kind of “elitist” shit), but still some good reports EVs and teambuilding

>Youtube Channels

https://www.youtube.com/user/YoshiSkillz

VGC player from Germany, and have some good videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/CybertronProductions

Very good for new players, he talk about why he chose the moves, have team breakdown

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJbbTSmMzaDhJg2uz6elyPA

A good player, that get a lot of videos, and have some about S/M, so you may check, also upload a guide about tapus, so for new is just too good

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9OZkS1Mhl5UvKSiPrYqsxg/featured

Wolfey channel, last year champion, he is uploading right now some videos about new pokemon, so you may want to check them, is very useful

>Tools

http://pokemonshowdown.com/

Team testing, damage calc (the most updated to the date), and can check ladder to have a Idea

>>30213792
Is there a way to look at the ladder on showdown and see what the person's team is that they've been using?

>>30214194
Look up his name here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/

>>30214287
woah cool thanks

>>30210446
I use Torkoal + Lilligant, fast chlorophyll leaf storm can be used to kill most things that resist Torkoal, and use after you to get Torkoal to move first for fast eruptions

>>30213638
I was always curious about how hack checks worked, wanna explain?

Battle Tree is horse shit, how do they expect people to get what they need to play VGC if they lock it behind this broken thing. Are all VGC teams hacked or something?

>>30214736
I have heard that Tapu Koko + Rain or + A-Raichu works well against the AI. Everyone I've known who used it said they did well, didn't even need to EV train.

>>30214789
I will try that thanks

>>30214789
Doubles or singles?

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How does Aurora Veil work?

If you use Aurora Veil and then an enemy brings in Rain does Aurora Veil automatically dispel, or does it only need to be hailing on the original use of the move and then after that, Aurora Veil will stay up for 5 turns no matter what?

>>30214820
They looking for something weird, like meet place, moves that can learn, everything

I'm still in the planning phase, haven't built my team yet, but I was thinking something like Xurkitree, Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, A-Ninetales, Garchomp and A-Marowak. Though I'd really like to fit Comfey on there, I always thought it would be a fun supporter for Bulu and it was nice to see it get some love last thread. Let me know if you see a mon a should substitute for it please.

The team idea centered around my initial attraction to the Xurkitree/Bulu offensive core. A-Ninetales is my favourite mon and this might be the only season it's usable, so I'd really like to make it work. I don't think pairing A-Sandslash with it is a good idea, but maybe it's better than I thought?

I'm not sure what to do with Garchomp's fourth move slot or item. I was thinking DC/EQ/Protect and either Swords Dance or Poison Jab and item might be Lum or Yache?

>>30214845
Doubles. My friend who is bad at pokemon had good luck with pelipper hurricane spam with tapu koko using thunders or some shit

>>30214881
take xurkitree out and try comfey, tbqh the UB arent that great, and you should try to replace ninetails or garchomp for a intimidate user

>>30214881
None of the top teams ont he ladder right now have any ultra beasts. If any they have just 1. They are not very good. You can't just spam them to win.

Is A-Ninetails+A-Sandslash viable in VGC? Was thinking of making a team around that

>>30204395
Try gravity with a Z-Hypnosis Xurkitree (Z-Hypno raise speed)

>>30213165
Anything Perish Song is more reliable

>>30215202
>>30215350
Swap Xurk for Comfey? Aight, although I'm a bit worried about the pressure one support mon+one hard hitter can put out compared to two hard hitters.

What do we have available for good intimidate users? I'd love to use Incineroar, but I doubt we'll get the HA for a while. If I have Marowak, I'll probably replace Chomp, as I now recall I had Chomp on there to have a fire/rock/elec resist and strong ground moves, Marowak covers that but stacks another rock weakness.

>>30215361
No that good with many steel types in the meta, but try it

>>30215350
I see more common teams with double tapus and no UB than one tapu+UB, and the only UB that see play is Celesteela (a little Pheromosa? but poorly, and one guzzlord, I dint expect that, but did nothing so...)

>>30215684
Krookodile?

>>30215405
Hmm interesting thanks dude.

what's comfey's appeal?

>>30215793
Triage, but desu is very poorly (can OHKO pheromosa as a meme, but not recommended)

>>30215446
Does that bypass accuracy? What if I only have 2 pokemon left myself and can't use it?

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>>30215684
Arcanine, Gyarados and Salamence are the best intimidate users available.

>>30215712
Ground/Dark doesn't seem that appealing in this meta, especially when it doesn't have a ground move to bypass grassy terrain like Marowak and Mudsdale do. I'm thinking maybe Salamence?

>>30215793
>>30215845
It seems like a pretty good support mon if you're running Bulu. Heals, Helping Hand, not complete taunt bait, can also Taunt or setup Light Screen, Trick Room. I also like that it can reset terrain, which helps if they try to switch in another tapu.

>>30216138
Missed your post while writing my last one. Gyarados is appealing since I have a Lightning Rod mon; it could take advantage of enemy rain to hit harder too. I like it, but I've never run normal Gyara before, any set recommendations?

>>30216234

Gyarados @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 108 Def / 44 SpD / 52 Spe
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Protect


Standard BSD bulkydos set is a solid starting place.

I've never gotten into competitive before but I wanna try with this gen. How do I build a team around mimikyu?

>>30216162
Gyarados do better with marowak

>>30216354
tfw Mega Gyarados isn't allowed

>>30216234
Try 252/252 sets, not optimal but is the best till the meta stabilize

>>30216354
Cool, thanks. I was thinking about Dragon Dance or Rocky Helmet, but this does indeed look like a solid way to get my feet wet.

>>30215983
It doesn't factor accuracy.

If some evasion stalling fag gets you down to your last two mons then you are doing something wrong. Anyways don't get too fixated in the ocasional loss to that tactic, there's a reason you don't really see it winning anything important.

Since Protect filters 75% of the incoming damage from a Z-Move, does that mean the Tapu Z-Move, Guardian of Alola, will only inflict 25% of max health damage to a protecting Pokemon?

Does Timid or Modest serve Xurkitree better, in most cases? The Z-Hypnosis idea sounds cool, but I imagine it can't just be thrown out anytime.

Is there any Pokemon in VGC17 that can use Spore that isn't Smeargle?

Also, is there a Pokémon available in VGC17 that learns Tailwind and Taunt at the same time?

>>30216770
Shiinotic and Parasect

>>30216770
honchkrow can have taunt and tailwind
plus the stab sucker punches.

>>30216864
>>30216881
Sweet. Thanks famalam

>>30216770
In addition to Honchkrow, there is also Aerodactyl, Crobat, Skarmory, Whimsicott, Mandibuzz, Talonflame, Archeops, and potentially any Gen7 mon that gets the combo I'm not aware of

>>30216954
Okay, looks like that only includes Oricorio

Also, forgot to mention Emolga gets both too

>>30216954
man whimsicott seems to have tons of utility

>>30217041
It's a super good pokemon.

A good icy wind support mon? please
(A mon that can learn icy wind in Sun Moon)

Alright, threw the team together, wanted to post it here in case there are any glaring errors before I start testing it. So far my main concern with it is speed, icy wind and t-wave might help patch that up, though I just realized I can't t-wave next to Marowak.

http://pastebin.com/AMF98ZgE

>>30217117
I put it on my Ninetales, not sure how good this mon will turn out to be though.

>>30217191
Chose Glaceon, I dont want hail, but thanks for the help!

>>30217233
Np, good luck! Let me know if it works out for you, I'd really like to see Glaceon shine for once.

Got a Toxapex and Mimikyu with ideal natures and IVs ready to go. Any suggestions to build around both of these guys?

>>30217477
Mimikyu works well with Play Rough/Shadow Sneak/Swords Dance/Protect

Give it Sash. You can SD at least twice thanks to Disguise and Sash then proceed to wreak Havoc with Priority. Unless there's Psychic Terrain ofc

Is it possible to cover all options in your team? So I need Wide Guard because multi hit moves are strong and common. And I need some kind of Taunt/Haze mechanic that allows me to shut down teams that want to set-up on me. And then I need Protect on every Pokemon so that further limits my options. Am I just looking at this the wrong way, like should I focus more on my own strategy and not worry so much what the opponent is gonna try and do? I always get overwhelmed when I try to put a counter to everything that could be thrown at me.

>>30210673
>Any priority
good thing tapu lele is strong

>>30216467
Now that it's prankster immune it will be a fucking terror in battlespot. Plus when it goes mega it can benefit from psychic terrain.

No amount of priority bullshit can save you from mega DD sweeps now.

>>30217191
>http://pastebin.com/AMF98ZgE
Very good team tbqh, but I will do some changes:
Alola marowak, change will-o-wisp for detect o protect, an EVs 252 HP / 108 Atk / 148 SpD.
Celesteela moveset: Heavy slam, flamethrower, leech seed and protect, change the item for leftovers and the nature Relaxed, but overall is good

>>30217657
>Plus when it goes mega it can benefit from psychic terrain.
Psychic Fangs when?

>>30217477
>>30217546
I feel Mimikyu works better on a supportive role in doubles than an offensive one.

He carries TR, WoW, Taunt, Pain Split, TW and even Destiny Bond.

Question, as someone who as never done VGC, but wants to get in on it using a monotype Steel team for shits and giggles.

I've already picked out Metagross as my core. What else could I throw together from SM to make a decent mono Steel team?

>>30217613
You can have separate mons covering a specific playtype for your opponent. Remember you bring 6 but only use 4.

I'm fucking excited people are gonna have hype for VGC! Crazy the format is getting hopefully better, and it's cool to see threads on /vp/ again.
So what's looking like so far?the current meta

>>30217741
>for shits and giggles.
Don't play VGC then.

>>30217773
Tapus, intimidate, Lightning rod, bulkyness

>>30217370
http://pastebin.com/PPvSGEs2
Glaceon work greatly
Its a "lower the speed of faster mons with Charjabug" team. Charjabug is the main focus of this, but Glaceon can replace it to lower speed and Attack and support. Great team and Glaceon worked fine
Let me know, if y'all use this if its working

>>30217688
Thank you so much for the feedback!
Yeah, I originally had protect in that slot, saw WoW on someone else's set, thought it might be good. On second thought though, I'd rather be swinging out with that massive damage each turn and leaving status to teammates, so I'll change it back to protect. I like the SpD EVs in that spread, I guess Marowak hits hard enough that it doesn't need max Attack? I haven't seen many calcs with Maro yet.

Yeah, I really didn't know what to do with Celesteela, as you can tell. This also helps deal with the other thing I noticed when I was looking over the team: a lack of protect. Thanks for this!

>>30217731
Mimikyu also can work as physical on TW, but yeah support is better

I've seen tweets talking about the "new big 6" but they never fucking mention anything. Does anyone know what's the team? I assume it has Tapu Koko, Marowak and Celesteela, but what else? No, I'm not gonna use it to contribute to another 2016, I'm just curious.

>>30217788
Wait, walls are back? Has the power creep receded that much?
Also what's the meta with Z moves looking like now? How's weather?

>>30216661
Timid on literally every set, unless you're running some trick room shit with him in which case you'd use Quiet, but that's not really advisable given how slow this gen is overall, even with min speed a lot of stuff is faster in TR.

>>30217117
Weavile will be the best choice for icy wind without tutors, especially considering it can't legally run knock off prebank and has nothing else that's really useful to fill that slot except maybe snatch. A ton of the good icy wind users depend on ORAS tutors to get it otherwise something like Milotic or Politoed would be best.

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Icy Wind
- Icicle Crash
- Feint

Please don't make yourself suffer through Glaceon btw, that thing is in no way viable in VGC.

>>30217613
>>30217764
It's literally impossible to cover absolutely EVERYTHING in a single team.

You have to build a foundation and from there identity your win condition and from there identify what prevents your win condition from occurring the most and from there pack up things that'll help you counter those things so that your win condition pulls through.

If your win condition is being stopped by EVERYTHING then your team has issues from the very start. Every team is gonna have weaknesses and some other things that won't bother it much so focus on the weaknesses you can identity and modify as you play as you may see fit.

>>30217837
>Wait, walls are back? Has the power creep receded that much?
There's no Megas and No Primals and pretty much all the Alolamons are shitmons. It's not surprising.

>>30217857
>your win condition
There is only one win condition, though

I mean, unless your opponent times out I guess

>>30217813
Thick club boost damage for marowak so not need to worry about that, and with that SpD, you can survive some things ( Can OHKO sweeper lele), and:

252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Marowak-Alola: 112-133 (34.5 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Marowak-Alola: 212-251 (65.4 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>30217688
Oh, so I changed my Celesteela's nature to Relaxed, but I'm not so sure about my 252 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SpD spread. Anybody got a good EV spread for a Relaxed Leftovers Celesteela, or is the one I have alright?

cant wait to start the new season
>last tourney of '16 season
>round 1 mutual disconnection, judge assumed table somehow interfered with connection, so we both got double loss
>round 2 forgot 4th mon
>round 3, the same guy I fought in round 1 DC'ed same way with someone else
>tourney was so small, there was only 4 rounds

What are some good bp items to pick up for vgc?

>>30217962
By that he means basically, have something that can murder things and some stuff that can kill the few things your primary pokes can't handle. Doubles aren't as horribly matchup based as singles but with each new gen adding new stuff the game's inevitably becoming more matchup based.

>>30218046
252 HP/ 4 Atk/ 252 SpD

>>30209061
>metagross + box legendaries
What the actual fuck.

How to join into pokemon pvp for noob? I only played a little in XY online. Everything looks so complex because of thousand pokemons and thousand moves and it's not even national level

>>30217781
So just because it's competitive means I'm not allowed to have some fun with it?

>>30218115
>>30213792
Should I do a new thread?

>>30218152
Wait for this to hit bump limit, then do it

>>30218092
Thanks

>>30208951
Not in Doubles

>>30218134
Maybe on Showdown, but definitely not on real life tournaments, especially since the majority of them are charging entry fees.

>>30218134
competitive Pokemon is not meant to be fun. Did you fucking see what the meta was last time?

>>30204236
Sword Dance, Leech Life/Play Rough depending on how you spread your EVS, Shadow Claw and T-Wave is my pick. Probably Slap a Life Orb on it because the damage doesn't break Disguise

Can I run shell smash baton pass smeargle or is it too slow a strategy for doubles without dark void?

>>30204090
High Horsepower

>>30218492
Baton Pass is not viable in doubles at all.

Somebody make a new thread.

>>30218746
>>30219110

>>30218152
Add the stuff on the OP from here >>30204090 too when you do.