So now that the dust has settled, who was worse?

>>30138995
Ghetsis was fucking uninspired. He was literally Kefka from FFVI.

>>30138995
Ghestis by fucking far, at least they managed to unfuck the stupid bitch after you kick her ass. Ghestis just fucking lost it and died after you kicked his ass the second time.

>>30138995

You can at least argue that if Nihilego hadn't shown up. Lusamine would have just been a regularly shitty parent rather than what she ended up.

Ghetsis was an asshole of his own volition.

At least Lusamine was a good mom before all the shit with her husband and the Ultra Beasts and she redeemed in the end.

>>30138995
Ghetsis did nothing wrong.

>>30139028
Ghetsis doesn't have a wicked sense of humor.

>>30139040
Why the fuck isn't she in prison?

She's fucking criminal.

>>30139070
This. This. This.

>>30138995
> worse
As in more evil, or which was more poorly made?

Ghetsis is a shit tier villain, probably the worst in the series. Generic, dresses like a sperg,takes backseat to N, not particularly good dialogue. Lusamine fit the story better, doesn't stay a sperg, and actually does stuff before going evil.

Also, Ghetsis ruined the only time GF ever looked at the 'dogfight' meme.

>>30139149
Ghetsis is a good villain; he's just a fucking shitty person and he knows he is. He's one of the most relatable Pokemon villains to our real world; he's just a fucking abusive parent.

>>30138995
Lusamine is literally perfect

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>>30139202
Mommy

>>30138995
Lusamine was actually interesting in a way since she is a woman and a mom. Imagine if mc mom is the villain in the next game? or the mysterious father.

>>30138995
worse in the sense of a bad character or an evil character?
because ghetsis was a fucking asshole that completely lost his mind in W2 and I loved it

Ghetsis was truly Dad Of The Year

Lusamine was just a druggie widower, that's not fun at all

>>30138995
Lusamine because she's 40+ with two kids. Should have been the evil onee-san rather than the evil mom.

>>30139304
His plans were bretty gud yeah but his fucking motivation was awful. I WANNA RULE DA WURLD LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOL!!!!!! is overdone as all fuck. Lusamine was literally driven fucking insane by her obsession, which while less grand is far more relate-able.

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>>30139132
the one who should be in prison is this guy since if it wasn't for him fucking with the Wormholes his family wouldn't be mess.

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>>30138995
Ghetsis was a asshole since bw , he tortured N and tried to conquer unova by using a "good " goal , when the mc defeat him and ruined his plans , he changed his mentality and becomes an extremist

lusamine's character was ruined when you visit the fucking pokepelago and see her husband

>>30139436
I'm so used to RPG's trying to make relatable villains that just having a sociopathic villain once in a while is real nice.

>>30139436
cmon playing the moral bullshit on everyone to make them release their mons and be the only one with literally living weapons on poket balls is a good plan

>>30139593
is ghetsis the Soros of the pokeworld?

>>30139436
It's a fucking children's video game, anon.

>>30139186
Ghetsis is a pretty cliche villain, but I appreciate the fact that he's just an evil bastard without any attempt at a sob story. It gets old when every Pokemon villain has to be sympathetic in some way.

>>30139345
>Lusamine was just a druggie widower, that's not fun at all

The way she shat on her kids was pretty fun, along with them faces

>>30139556
To be fair how was she supposed to know that her husband got dropped off to a nice beach a few miles off rather than still being stuck in Ultra Beast land

>>30139587
>>30139678
fucking this, and not just in pokemon, why must every villain have a sympathetic background or have an evil plan that "can be good when looked from a certain angle"? there is people that likes to be evil/want power just because they like it, no need for a tragic story before it, wouldn't even be mad is lusamine was just a shitty parent

>>30139678
>>30139874
He's shit because he's unremarkable in every single way; he's Kefka from Final Fantasy without any of the charm.

>>30139863
Other NPC's are aware of Pelago, it's probably a fairly prominent tool for Trainers.

>>30139874
Pretty much this.

It's only retards that have the headcanon of Plasma= PETA that bitch about Ghetsis.

In reality the Plasma ordeal is similar to a sword hunt, something that happened in Japan after a military upheaval, be the only ones with weapons immediately gives you a position of power, using beliefs and a high position to boost that is also great.

Ghetsis was the most successful villain in Pokémon and people actually forget team plasma was about to hack into the PA system, you see that dialogue in N castle in BW.

Ghetsis didn't come out of nowhere, only retards that follow the PETA meme fail to see he is a real threat in the Pokémon world without the need of legends, heck this guy is ballsy enough to say legends are nothing but Pokémon in the end before battling you.

>>30138995
Looking at them side-by-side, I want them to fuck. Got porn?

>>30138995
Ghetsis was fully aware of what he was doing and is completely evil to his core. Lusamine was at least somewhat under Nihilego's influence and clearly still cared for her daughter despite what she said prior.

>>30138995
haven't played S/M yet, but I don't think Lusamine can top literally trying to murder you

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>>30138995
Plebs.

>>30140803
Its not about you.
its all about the real MC of the game

>>30139453
Pls tell me he was hot in his young days.

>>30141161
just imagine a cheerful no edge adult gladion

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>>30139149
>worst
No, this is.

>>30139556
If anything Mohn being the Poke Pelago guy makes it even better for me.

The guy just single-handedly caused his wife to try and destroy the fucking world with eldritch abominations just because he wanted to stay in some tiny islands eating beans and I think that's hilarious.

>>30141210
delete this

Lusamine was a more fleshed out character and only wanted to fuck off to the UB world and hang out with Jelly fish.

She didn't want to destroy everything due to crippling autism like Cyrus or take over the world like Ghestis, she just wanted to fuck jellyfish and experimented/cyrogenetically froze some pokemon because she is pretty crazy too

>>30141323
>hilarious
i think it's sad 2bh

>>30141210
His only crime was being in the game with one of the worst stories tbqh

Had he been in a better written game like BW or SM I think he would have been a lot better.

>>30141161
If you talk to him about Poke Beans he says he eats them to and can't help himself so he put on weight, so at the very least he wasn't fat when he fucked Lusamine.

>>30141210
He had some real potential though.

I still like him since he had some sort of motives to his madness beyond "generic evil man" like Ghestis

>>30138995
What if they had a love child?

>>30141441
It's kinda both fambulance

It's tragic that he never went back to his family because he either got amnesia (implied from what I remember) or didn't care, but it's also funny that the man that caused the main conflict is the jolly hermit that lets people in Alola leave their in his islands like some sort of hotel and likes to eat beans

>>30141494
I mean N had to come from somewhere, right?

>>30141494
if they had a child and Ghetsis is abusing the kid, Lusamine would send him to the shadow realm no questions

>>30138995
Ghetsis didn't got mindraped by a eldritch monster

>>30141442
>>30141462
Lysandre ranting about how he'd gladly commit genocide directly to the fucking champion of Kalos followed by Sycamore just kinda laughing it off in his introduction really didn't help.

Kind of unrelated but how do you guys think Reshiram and Zekrom (and Kyurem) will work in the new universe?

If I remember correctly at one point someone implied the original dragon wasn't from the main world. So are they aliens or will they get rebranded as Ultra Beasts as well?

>>30139453
this cunt is their dad? wtf

>>30141605
Yeah it always felt weird how Sycamore and Diantha knew all about Lysandre's bullshit but kind of ignored it until he actually tried to kill everyone. They're all kinds of incompetent.

>>30141605
I can think of two ways his introduction could have been fixed

Either make him start by mentioning very harmless remarks that you could probably agree with, and then progressively make them more and more insane.

OR

Make it seem like his genocide rants are just dark humor (the other characters basically going like "ohhh youuuu!") and at the end make him clarify that, no, it wasn't a joke, and yes, he does want to kill everyone.

>>30138995
Ghetsis, without question. Lusamine was just a bad parent who went crazy and just wanted a jellyfish orgy. Ghetsis was an actual sociopath who wanted to rule the world by force. Not much of a comparison.

>>30139678
This. Having an antagonist that you are just supposed to hate isn't a bad thing.

>>30141651
Yeah there are notes and NPCs who mention Professor Mohn as the pioneer of Wormhole research but he fell into one and was never found. Somewhere else also refers to Professor Mohn as Lusamine's husband. When you first speak to him on Pelago he says he abandoned the mainland long ago because he realised what he was doing was wrong or something and wanted to create a proper paradise for Pokemon he but never mentions what he was actually doing before Pelago. So it's implied he might have actually planned his disappearance because he disagreed with what Lusamine was doing but he inadvertently set her on a path of batshit insanity in doing so.

>>30141605
>people that do not give back to society are filth!
>I want to rid the world of that filth!

>hahahahaha lysandre what a passionate guy you are lmao

>>30141816
>Lusamine was just a bad parent who went crazy and just wanted a jellyfish orgy.

Pretty sure it's implied that she was actually a decent parent before her husband disappeared and she came into contact with an ultra beast.

Ghetsis is more blatant evil but Lusamine is more tragic.

>>30139436
I think Ghetsis's motivation was somewhat hinted but not fully explored in the game. He likely had bloodline connected to Unova hero/king and the sages saw him as visionary of new,perfect world. I think he probably believe Unova or even the world would be more prosper under its rightful ruler aka himself. Of course its fucking wrong but thats how narcissist see the world.

Kind of annoyed the only main female villain we have is also the only villain with a 'dindu nuffin' backstory.

Giovanni was a mobster
R/S team leaders were fucking retards
D/P was an autistic man who wanted to recreate the world
B/W Wants to rule the world, is a complete asshole
X/Y Wants to genocide the world, is a complete asshole

I can't take Lusamine seriously. She literally made a way to travel through dimensions to find her husband, but couldn't look a few miles around the region?

>Approached by his Son with Kindness dispite being used
>Goes on an autistic ragefit after losing twice and rejects his Son's forgivness

Ghestis a shit

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best to worse

Colress > Lusamine > Archie > Giovanni > Cyrus > Maxie > Ghestis > Lysandre

>>30141967
It's not a dindu nuffin backstory, it makes it pretty clear that she was in the wrong and made bad choices but there were other factors at play too. She was already fucking crazy but Nihilego lowered her inhibitions to practical nonexistence so she went all out. She would still have kept on being an asshole regardless of Nihilego but it just sped up the process.

>>30141833
>no option to take him back with you and make him fix all the shit he personally caused by abandoning his family without explanation

>>30141901
Well I meant she was a bad parent because she started going crazy. But yeah she was supposed to be more tragic.

>>30141967
I think Lysander was supposed to have a sort of tragic backstory too, but he was much more of a threat than her.

In fact that's my main issue with her. She was just wanting to open an ultra wormhole so she could hang out with Nihilego, but aside from that she really didn't do much. She opened a few others that released some UBs but her plans aren't much of a threat to the world or anything. And then she runs off to the beasts' world and that whole plotline could have ended there with no consequence.

>>30141983
>>30142028
>HURR MY SYMPATHETIC BAD GUY
Also Colress wasn't even a villain.

>>30141967
You can argue they made Archie/Maxie more sympathetic in ORAS given how they were just being played by Zinnia and they're let off the hook after all is said and done.

And Lusamine suffers repercussions for her actions anyway. By the end, she had it worse than Giovanni, Archie, and Maxie did. Arguably Cyrus too.

>>30142028
Colress literally isn't a villain

>>30142028
I never understand why Colress gets so much attention around here. He's just some Plasma scientist and even then he just says fuck it in the end.

Is it the homos?

>>30142120
>that whole plotline could have ended there with no consequence
But then how would I rescue my boy Guzma?

>>30142028
colress isn't a villain, he's just a super nerd who doesn't care if it's right or wrong as long as he can do science

>>30139436
>I WANNA RULE DA WURLD LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOOLOL!!!!!! is overdone as all fuck

Please name all the Pokemon games that do this. Go on.

>>30142185
He helps you ingame and he gives 0 fucks about the plot, having an awesome battle theme helps.

Colress is quite cool to be honest.

>>30139070
Was she? Gladion's dialogue when he gives you the Null implied to me that she was always a shitty abusive mom and he tried to believe she was only like that after his dad disappeared because that was the only way to convince himself that she wasn't a terrible person who thought her kids were disposable.

>>30142293
There was an instance or two where Lillie reminisced to having good times with her before she started controlling the way she lived.

>>30142185
It's literally just one faggot shitposting.

>>30141422
>crippling autism

>>30142347
>literally

>>30142366
>4chan

>colress shows up randomly halfway in the game
>never seen or alluded to again
why

My question is, why is Ghetsis so sexy?

>>30142293
She was a good mom, it's just that her craziness begun around 3-4 years before the game's plot. Lillie confirms in the late game.

You enter Lusamine's mansion at one point and Lillie talks about a story of when she was little. She had seen a movie or something and ran outside into the rain to sing and dance, Lusamine noticed this and immediately ran after her without caring if she got wet. Instead of scolding Lillie, however, she apparently just laughed and danced with her daughter. Afterwards Lusamine let Lillie sleep and cuddle her when it was time for sleep.

After Lusamine is redeemed and you're crowned as the champion there's this party in Iki town and Lillie tells you that Lusamine tried to get out of bed to celebrate with her and you.

>>30142395
>just

>>30138995
Giovanni doesn't care about his son but this also means Silver is free to do what he wants. Thus a bad Dad but at least he doesn't actively ruin his child.

Ghetsis knowingly uses N as nothing more than a tool; he raised N simply because of his unique talent and thus bred him to be a means to his own evil ends. Ghetsis not only doesn't actually care about N but he actively ruins N's life and abuses him with the only positive outlook being that N would be the face of Ghetsis' new world order.

Lusamine is a combination of the two. Originally a good mother, she becomes obsessed with rescuing her Husband from the UB world and uses her children as tools towards that goal. Eventually in her madness she loses sight of that original goal and begins to sink into madness as she goes deeper and deeper into her research. Her children notice that she had become destructive with her behaviour and their acts of betrayal were intended to show her that she was wrong. However Lusamine was so deep into her commitment of joining/calling the UBs that she decided to disown her own children instead of disowning her work.

Ghetsis is the truly evil one who acts only for his own selfishness and has no remorse for hurting those he should care about. Lusamine loses her mind but there was a good person there originally. Giovanni just wants power; it's a bit weird he has a son at all.

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>>30139202
This, Lusamine is a goddess.

>>30142434
I'm pretty sure he was there just there to study the bond with Z-moves.

>>30142477
sure..
*totem pokemons with mysterious aura which never happened before teleports behind him*

>>30141967
Evil team villains ranking.
Giovanni > Guzma > Lysandre > Ghetsis > Cyrus > Maxie > Archie.

Reasoning.

Giovanni is a mobster, which is a sensible motive compared to the other retards. He also didn't dress like an autistic man, was generally successful, we know for a fact he got laid, he didn't make his team dress that bad.

Guzma is basically a punk ass, but his self-serving motives are still pretty sensible for a Pokemon villain. Team skull is a decent team name, and the symbol design is aight. His goons were bad at their job, but so are all the grunts, and the skull grunts are comedic in their failure. Most other evil team grunts just suck to suck. He also used a pretty cool bug.

Lysandre and his team dressed kinda stupid, but it at least fit the theme and wasn't too silly. Wanting to kill everybody was pretty edgy for a Pokemon game. One thing that is good about him is that he at least realizes what he wants to do, unlike the idiots on bottom. He knows he could destroy the world, and that is why he was actually threatening.

Ghetsis is kinda generic, but that actually isn't so bad given gen 3-4 villains. He dresses stupid, is overshadowed by N for most of the game, and was basically PokePeta. Again, at least he had some idea of what he was doing. Loses some points for making his team dress like retards.

Cyrus was, yeah, kinda autistic. Even in Pokemon Generations, the "I want my own world!" thing is kinda weird. He makes his team wear bowl cuts and weird jumpsuits. Again, loses points because team dresses like spergs.

Maxie and Archie have a lot of overlapping flaws. Both want their legendary mon to fuck shit up, and then they are shocked when it fucking happens. Nah shit. Maxie makes his team dress worse than Archie does, but that isn't enough to make him the bottom. See, Maxie wanted to expand the earth, which is at least what people can reasonably live on. Archie wanted to expand the ocean. Even in PokeLogic world where

>>30139132
>why the fuck is't she in prison? She's a fucking criminal.
Keep that shit on pol man

>>30142434
He gives you the Genesect drives later.

>>30142463
You know it's kind of a shame Giovanni wasn't the stereotypical Godfather-like mobster

Just imagine the possibilities:
>you either ally him or make him your enemy and the story takes branching paths
>if you ally him you can make characters you don't like sleep with the Magikarp

>>30142560
>ctd
where the water cycle doesn't matter, he still fucks up because people can't live in fucking water. It's the stupidest goal, and he thinks it will be good for him. So he gets to be the bottom.

>>30142596
>lives in hoenn
>wants more water
Team Aqua is one of my favorite teams but goddamn that's a dumb plan

>>30142577
where, i haven't seen him

>>30142624
Like I said, they dress better than their counterparts, and Sharpedo is a cool ass mon to use. But when you go full retard, you get ranked as a full retard. Thankfully, we've gone a few gens without that and we seem to not be headed back to 'let's destroy shit, oh shit, the Pokemon is destroying shit!'

What do people think of the spinoff game villains? Are they cool?

Sorry for asking, I haven't played a spin off game aside from Picross and Shuffle

>>30139863
I believe the Mohn you see is not Lusamine's husband. The original Mohn, husband to Lusamine and father to Gladion and Lillie, got lost in an Ultra Wormhole.
The Mohn you see in Poke Pelago is a faller from another dimension.

Teams Skull and Rocket are the only evil teams that make sense and are believable

But at the same time neither is ever threatening, so Guzma and Team Skull are automatically better since they at least entertain in their failures and are much more fleshed out than Giovanni's "bad mob man who stops being bad then is retroactively made to have never stopped being bad"

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>>30142787
what if Mohn is nebby

Ghetsis, while uninspired, at least owned up to it and was directly shown to be a horrible human being. Lusamine didn't really have a reason why she likes Nihilego so much (no, losing your husband doesn't make you love jellyfish) and how half-assed her evilness was felt weak. Ghetsis was a complete character, while Lusamine was just a mess and not in a good way.

Giovanni > Ghetsis > Cyrus > Maxie > Guzma/Lusamine > Lysandre > Archie

Giovanni - Isn't an idiot, has achieved his goal of making money and controlling the region.

Ghetsis - Great charisma, managed to fool the entire region, had a Plan B, used Ninjas and Legendaries to bomb cities, not autistic goals.

Cyrus - Autist. Wants to become the God.

Maxie - Not stupid, actually wants to help humanity without killing anyone.

Lusamine - Crazy. Stupid. Goal makes no sense. Made something that allows her to travel through dimension, but couldn't find her husband who was a somewhat well-known guy among trainers.

Guzma - Is funny. Otherwise irrelevant.

Lysandre - Shit. Crazy. Makes no sense.

Archie - All of above, plus retarded.

>>30142633
Postgame. He's where you met him the first time, near the motel where you start the Looker quest.

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>>30143018
Why was Maxie's goal seen as evil? I mean, sure, he was stupid for not knowing Groudon was an uncontrollable rampaging beast, but the plan itself was made to help mankind.

It's not like pokemon had only a little bit of fucking water left. Literally half the area and population of Hoenn is just hostile waves.

Honestly I'd love to see a villain that is the complete opposite of a misanthrope. Like some random dude that thinks pokemon adulation has gone too far and they think people should stop letting pokemon be the center of their lives or some edgy shit like that.

>>30142880
It's stated that Nihilego outright affects people's minds and that she was obsessed with the Ultra Beasts due to them being connected with her husband's disappearance.

>>30143122
People knew what he wanted to achieve wasn't possible, and that it would only result in the destruction of Hoenn. That's why they thought he was evil. And he actually steals stuff.

>>30143122
Wasn't that team Plasma's goal (outside of Ghetsis)? Letting pokemon live free in nature and regarding them only as animals.

>>30143134
how can she be obsessed with the creatures living in the dimension her husband was sucked into?
I would've believed it if somehow Pheromosa caused the whole obsession thing to Lusamine because pheromones lmao and Nihilego just amplified it.

>>30143122
>Like some random dude that thinks pokemon adulation has gone too far and they think people should stop letting pokemon be the center of their lives

I've been thinking about this shit a lot lately so I'd be really into the idea if they somehow pulled it off.

>>30143312
>how can she be obsessed with the creatures living in the dimension her husband was sucked into?

Because they were already researching them to start with.

>>30143122
>>30143320
Omg I can just imagine

Maybe there's a shitton of trolley moral dilemmas involved

>"I've asked this to everyone and the answers always sicken me."
>"Riddle me this, say you're the proud parent of a little girl, but alongside you is your prized partner pokemon from many years."
>"One day, your house catches on fire, and both your daughter and your pokemon are trapped. The structure is rapidly collapsing, you can only save one of them, who would you choose?"
>You choose Pokemon
>"Disgusting. So what, was your daughter's life less important than an animal's?"
>You choose Daughter
>"...Good."
(I suck but you get the idea)

And he like battles with fucking shitmons lmao

>>30141502
the guy who discovered worm holes, founded a giant conservation empire, has a hot wife and children, got amnesia and lived on beans eating them till he got fat. I find it absolutely hilarious. I hope Gladion has the same fate.

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>>30139453
>>30141833
Shit I didn't make the connection before

>>30143464
For a character like that, a full team of high-tier competitive Smogon mons might fit better. It would hammer home the idea that he's not really using the Pokemon he has because he likes them, but he needs them to fight off anyone who might get in his way.

>>30142564
So it's true, bots really do still roam the boards despite the election being over. Like sad ghosts spun up, then cast out.

>>30139132
She didn't actually do anything, though. She didn't kill or hurt anyone at all, she literally just summoned new Pokemon to the world who ONLY fought with the Tapus and caused zero damage, deaths or anything of the sort. Lusamine's plan amounted to nothing because she was stopped before it could reach its climax.

>>30139132
>Why the fuck isn't she in prison?

What did she honestly do? Her company that does conservation ran questionable experiments and she had a punk leader of a punk gang do shit for her (what did Guzma even fucking do outside for her actually? I can't think of anything Skull did for her). She went crazy but there's nothing illegal about being a huge bitch.

>>30138995
Well, Ghetsis was slightly more fleshed out than Lusamine, since Lusamine had one meeting prior to her completely flipping her switch and going full retard mode.

>>30138995
The mother, because she's a woman. Also shameless waifubait.

How did they defeat the previous incident with Ultra Beasts? Looker said they had to sacrifice some girl in the past for Ultra Beasts, but what the fuck happened back then? Guzzlord was apparently one of the UBs that showed up in the past and is apparently the strongest one out of the group, so HOW did they defeat that thing?

>>30143122
>Why was Maxie's goal seen as evil?

It's no so evil as it is self serving and really stupid.

Despite what he says nobody ever fucking talks about there being anything close to a shortage of space for humanity but he still goes "YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO GO STEAL A BUNCH OF SHIT TO SUMMON A GIANT ANCIENT TITAN TO REMOLD THE FUCKING CONTINENTS" and also never checks with anyone to see if it's viable or actually needed or wanted.

It's not inherently evil but it's a really fool hardy plan.

The remakes make him more science nerd to it's believable that he actually has crunched the numbers but it's still him thinking he knows what is best for everyone else and does a really stupid thing for it.

>>30142560
Guzma literally wasn't a villian. He is just a guy got hired by Lusamine.
And Team Skull has cancer music and outfit.

>>30144311
How about unlawful experimenting on pokemon And affiliation with known criminals?

>>30138995
Nihilego

>>30144475
>How about unlawful experimenting on pokemon

I didn't know you were an expert on pokemon law and pokemon ethics. They make Type:Null, froze some pokemon, and hurt GET IN THE BAG a single time which is the most fucked up but even then who cares.

>And affiliation with known criminals?

They're not. They're hoodlums but Team Skull doesn't nothing worthy of giving a shit about in the entire game and are in universe treated as complete joke. They vandalized bus stops and stole Buginium Z that's all they did and not even the police gave a remote fuck.

>>30144537
No the Skulls did steal mons and cut off slowpoke tails and shit like that. Nothing world destroying but definitely illegal

>>30144537
Lusamin did nothing wrong?

Why does that sound familiar?

>>30138995
Ghetsis by far, Lusamine just snapped out and became a crazy bitch, meanwhile Dennis from the very start was one manipulative piece of shit that used his babby as a part of a master plan.

Reminds me of that odd fairy parents episode where the pixies raise a baby for 37 years for their evil plan.

>>30139436
>is overdone as all fuck

Except these days, ironically enough, it isn't anymore.
Every single fucking videogame now, specially RPGs, wants to have a "he did nothing wrong" villain instead of a plain asshole who just wants power.

>>30141833
>>30139453
He probably lost his memories like Anabel.
Technically these games have two parallel universes, the Sun and the Moon one, as you can see from the postgame portal. So maybe they even switched themselves.

>>30144807
The dindu mentality is fucking stupid i agree, but honestly the Saturday Morning Cartoon villain approach is also horrible.

>>30144807
Usually in a conflict both sides think they're right as opposed to one side knowing they're right and the other knowing they're wrong but not giving a fuck because of narcissism or sociopathy. RPGs are trying to reflect this now.

>>30140029
>he's Kefka from Final Fantasy without any of the charm.
How are they alike in any way? Kefka is a dude that got hopped up on magic and went crazy thanks to it, yet retained a position in his country's military (because the Emperor liked his sadistic ass). He then proceeded to backstab his Emperor for ultimate power and went even more mad, just musing about the meaninglessness of life when the heroes finally get their shit together to challenge him.

Ghetsis is a dude who went "A world ruled by me and my Pokemon only? Why, that's the best idea I've ever had!" and then proceeded to plot and prepare for what can only be several decades as he built the cult of Team Plasma and raised N from infancy. His motives for wishing for world domination aren't fully explained, but it's pretty clear that the guy is supremely narcissistic and feels threatened by the idea of others having power over him (which is why he wants to be the only one with fantastical magical beasts).

>>30141442
SM is the only well written Pokemon game.

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>>30138995
Lusamine was just the worlds sexiest meth addict.

Hard to be impressed with her as a villain.

>>30144298
She fucking froze and in doing so killing a bunch of pokemon, that has to account for something

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>>30142449
Man, first I was getting all emotional about Guzma, now I feel horrible about Lusamine too. I didn't ask for these feels.

>>30144970
frosting a pokemon and storing a pokemon in a box for billion years is essentially the same

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Lusamine killing Cosmog is cute, CUTE!

>>30139345
>Ghetsis was truly Dad Of The Year
>adopts a kid and king grooms him

>>30144298
>>30144311
Are you idiots forgetting she left her children out on the street? I mean, even if you think the laws about that are ok in the Pokemon world cos the kids have Pokemon to protect them, Lillie and Gladion HAVE no Pokemon officially. Gladion had Type: Null, but he STOLE it.

She should be in prison for child abuse.

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>>30146782
who cares bro she's hot

>>30138995

B/W1 Ghetsis by far. He took an active role in breaking and remolding a feral child into his personal puppet and then convincing so many people to join him under the guise of a Pokemon liberation front.

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Ghetsis and Colress are my favorite villains, but considering they're competing from with I wanna make the world as boring as I am Cyrus and Maxie/Archie who dont expect the exact thing they wanted to happen to happen the competition isnt very strong.
Lusamine is ok but not great.

Anyone got the pic of Guzma saying "yall are stupid"

>>30146893
So what would she have done, just stay in the ultra world and get fucked by beasts and/or guzma for eternity?

>>30138995
Ghetsis. Lusamine went mad from alien jelly. Ghetsis was just a dickbag who went mad from being beaten by kids. Twice.

Seriously, Lusamine was infected by Nihilego, Ghetsis' plan to rule Unova was entirely his own idea, his plan to freeze entire cities was entirely his own idea, his plan to abuse the fuck out of N and use him to lead a revolution was entirely his own idea.

Ghetsis is probably the most evil character in Pokemon, especially with how he was ready and willing to impale the MC on icicles.

>>30147260
>PC blacked out
>you can black out of that fight
>You don't get a game over like when a Fire Emblem Lord dies
>Even though it's stated he will KILL YOU if you lose that battle

>>30142449
>Singing in the rain reference

Wtf gf confirmed for bros

>>30147318
They've also referenced Stand By Me

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>>30142449
>tfw no kyoani lusamine and lillie playing in the rain anime

>>30141682
>Yeah it always felt weird how Sycamore and Diantha knew all about Lysandre's bullshit but kind of ignored it until he actually tried to kill everyone. They're all kinds of incompetent.
I put it down to shitty writing in general, because there were shades of why the Pokemon League didn't move which got shoved into the background.

The fact is the Kalos Pokemon League was corrupt and had some dodgy dealings going on. That much was evident from the fact that Malva was blatantly working alongside Team Flare and she had a ridiculous amount of clout as the top anchorwoman in the region and a Elite 4 member.

Lysandre himself was some kind of super rich figure head of a conglomerate who obviously controlled most of the Kalos economy and was considered a great philanthropist with unknown ulterior motives. Put 2+2 together and you can see they at some point wanted to paint a picture of a shady illuminati style Pokemon league.

>>30146782

They left on their own. She could get animal abuse for freezing those pokemon and draining Nebby, but that's it.

Granted that is a class A felony now.

>>30147560
is freezing pokemon really bad? isn't that like just putting them on the box but instead of becoming digital they are stuck in an ice?

>>30147560
>The kids likely under 11 or 11 'left on their own'
>That means the parent wasn't at fault for abuse

Que?

>>30147597
Cells die when they get shoved full of ice crystals anon. Cryo-freezing is largely debunked due to this fact.

>>30144368
It's implied that they took them 3vs1, and that a distraction/fuck up let Guzzlord get too close to the Faller.

They also use fallers as bait.

>>30147598

Having a kid run away from home with the family pet doesn't make the parent a child abuser.

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>>30138995
Lusamine is cute so she can't be worse.

>>30147654
Uh, anon. If a kid runs away because their home life is so shitty, then Child Protective Services won't see it the way you are.

>>30147675

>mother is insanely rich and known for being compassionate and kind with the only evident fault being that she feels disappointed in her children

CPS would give zero shits. There's no child abuse here. Just two rich kids acting out.

>>30147675
>kid runs away
>they find the kid
>he has a fucking chimera
they would ignore him and fuck off.

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>>30147101

>>30144298
>Buzzwole: Moon
A mysterious life-form called an Ultra Beast. Witnesses saw it pulverize a dump truck with a single punch.
>Celesteela: Moon
One kind of Ultra Beast. Witnesses have seen it burn down a forest by expelling gas from its two arms.
>Kartana: Moon
One of the Ultra Beast life-forms, it was observed cutting down a gigantic steel tower with one stroke of its blade.
>Guzzlord: Sun
It has gobbled mountains and swallowed whole buildings, according to reports. It’s one of the Ultra Beasts.

Lysandre spent years trying to be a philanthropist, helping people and pokemon as much as he could. If you talk to NPCs many of them were personally helped by Lysandre and look to him like a mentor.

The unclear part is sometime a while back he got burned by too many people he tried to help who were selfish or ungrateful and then he got obsessed with the legend of the standing stones.

So Lysandre's backstory is basically ENOUGH!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Lysandre is basically the Unabomber if he took things a little too far.

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>>30141605

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Lysandre is like Valentine
>rich
>tried to kill protagonist
>remove filthy humans reeeeee
>both die

>>30147939
>The pokedex is canon

>>30148691

It literally is.

That being said, those are just eye witness accounts that could easily be made up.

>>30142740
Snagem and Cipher are pretty neat

>>30147699
No, Lusamine definitely emotionally abused Lillie. She was the reason Lillie constantly called herself worthless and believed herself unable to do anything by herself.

>>30148758
>pokedex is canon
>pokedex sizes
I'm not buying it.

>>30141422
she free the rest of the UBs in the world and they are dangerous as fuck, if anything nihilego was the villian mindcontroling lusamine into opening the portals, that thing is a fucking mindflayer

>>30149261

>coddled daughter left and right
>teaches daughter to love pokemon
>daughter decides that animal abuse is wrong
>mother overobsesses about beasts and leaves children to the hired help.

I'm not seeing the abuse. You all act like she was beating them and threw them into the back alley.

>>30141513
I though ghetsis found N, they aren't blood related

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>>30149318
>nihilego was the villian all along
wew

>>30149318
>four pheromosa out in the wild in post-game
>no damage reports
wew lad

>>30142451
>one

>>30149318
>>30149353
the real villain are us humans and our curiosity.

>>30149321
Read the dialogue with Lillie and Gladion before you go to rescue Lusamine or the dialogue with Gladion in the post-game. Lillie mentions that Lusamine was so bad she wouldn't have been able to cope if it wasn't for Wicke and Gladion talks about how Lusamine treated like toys.

>>30149366
Most UBs just want to shill. Only Nihilego and Guzzlord are legitimately malicious.

>>30147260
Kill is a misstranslation, he planned to trap you in ice so you couldn't help but to powerlessly witness his assent into glory.

Being trapped in ice is still scary.

>>30149287
>talk about lore
>discount some of it because lol idk
although, I think the anime is more canon than the Pokedex in regards to sizes

Lusamine made her daughter dress up like a elder god she had a crush on and wanted to unleash on Earth.

Ghetsis deliberately made his son* develop a social disorder to make him more willing to be the figurehead of a tyrannical regime.

note that it's implied by one of the sages that N might not actually be his son, which raises many more questions

>>30149441

Sounds like the standard wealthy white family desu

>>30149441
>Most UBs just want to shill
t. UB

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>>30149366
they don't leave evidence or witness

>>30139132
Giovanni managed to even participate on an international competition.
Maxie and Archie are free after possibly fucking the world.
pokemon´s world police is shit anon.

>>30144311
>>30144298
Attempted crime is a thing anons.

>>30148676
This is a better comparison than calling Lysandre the "hitler" of Pokemon.

>>30149525
N has been stated to have been found by ghetsis and adopted.

>>30139269
They are actually giving some roles for "important-but-not-important" characters. The Professor of this Gen is the person who created the Pokémon League and a great fighter of the Battle Royal. Your mom on XY is a former Rhyhorn runner, on B2W2 one of your rivals becomes a Gym Leader. And I know it's old as fuck but on Gen III you actually had a father and he was a Gym Leader.

I expect they continue doing it. Maybe in Sun2/Moon2 Kukui or Hau is the Champion (remember when your rival was the Champion?). Maybe next Gen the Professor is the real villain or your mother is a Gym Leader or an Elite 4.

>>30144311
she was one of Team Skull's 'sponsors', i think one of the skull grunts mentioned

>>30149753
Don´t forget 3 of the 4 elite 4 being actual characters before the league.

>>30149753
Most of the characters are more interconnected and have more relationships than ever before. Acerola befriended Lillie and had a relationship (either his real niece or he just looked after her) with Nanu, Hapu had a complete character arc and a cute friendship with Lillie, Olivia was mostly for comedy but she still got a personality and more characterization than most if not all Gym Leaders/Elite Four members in the franchise, you could visit characters like Mallow or Lana in their houses, the professor was more involved with the story than just being tutorial/exposition material (but to be fair, that was kinda the case with Sycamore) and etc.

>>30139132
Because pretty sure her daughter talked the cops out of it.

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>>30139132
in a coma
and for the same reason mentally ill people don't go to prison, she isn't fully responsible for her actions, this thing is and it will spend the rest of eternity inside a box

>>30149532
Fucking idiot

>>30150046

Having parents call you a disappointment isn't abuse.

Lillie was just overly sensitive because she was so close to her mother before she detached.

>>30149753
Professor the villain? That's Pokémon Go. You are his grunts to his organization of three rival teams he created to cause chaos and grind Pokémon up into candies.

>>30150111
No, Lusamine didn't call Lillie a disappointment before she ran away with Cosmog. Lusamine deliberately wanted Lillie to believe herself to be worthless ad unable to do anything by herself so that she would be a doll for Lusamine to play with. What Lusamine wanted was something that would obey anything she said. That's the root of Lillie's dependency issues. Lusamine was obsessed with Nihilego because Nihilego has no will of its own and she wanted Lillie to resemble Nihilego and become her possession.

Nihilego didn't do shit, they don't even have a will of her own. Lusamine went crazy all by herself. Nihilego didn't affect her until they fused, and even she wasn't being mind controlled, just made crazier.

Lusamine's guilty as hell.

>>30150228
t. nihilego

nihilego was innocent and lusamine did everything of her own free will. it is a fallacy to think nihilego had anything to do with it

>>30141970
>my husband got lost in another dimension so I'm gonna look in this dimension, not the other one for him!

Good thinking anon

>>30150228
>>30150313
Someone make a picture of Nihilego typing on a computer.

Lusamine's plan is perhaps the least impactful plan in the history of antagonist plans.

If she brings ultra beasts into this world, so what? The ones that are roaming don't do shit and the first time you meet one you best it with whatever shitmons you have at the time.

If it goes the way the games went, IE she is lost in that world, big fucking deal, she wants to stay there. Absolutely no harm done.

lusamine is for sex and not for scheming.

>>30150175

Standard white family

>>30150383
>>30149995

>>30150383
see >>30149995
>3000x2000
rip my toaster

>>30138995
Lusamine just wanted to be a cockslut for beast mons until her annoying kids and their friends kept getting in the way.

>>30150413
>>30150417
Thanks desu didnt see that

>>30150386
levels are just gameplay, but them jumping on people that pass by and attacking them is a fact, the UBs-02 straigh up attacked the kahunas + the guardian so they were invading and the ones that crosses the wormholes got repelled into hiding with wild pokemon

>>30150111
t. someone who's mommy and daddy precious baby

You must have to be seriously retarded in all senses to not realize how being called a disappointment by your parents constantly can fuck up your psyche.

>>30150524
All wild pokemon attack whoever.

I agree levels don't matter, but you bested the thing after only beating 2 island challenges, which is something I am sure many people in the region have done.

>>30150593
yeah but pokemon already exist in the world so its a problem people takes for granted, now dealing with crossdimentional ayys isn't

>>30142449

>Lusamine isn't comatose, she's bedridden

that fucking sucks for her

>>30139132
vegetables can't go to prison

>>30150663
True, being from another dimension is surprising, but so is a wild salamence showing up to help. It scared people out of misunderstanding.

>>30142449
don't do meth, kids

>>30150528

Didn't hurt me any

>>30138995
Pokemon villains ranked by evilness:

Ghetsis > Lysandre > Giovanni = Cyrus > Lusamine > Maxie >= Archie

Ghetsis is most evil because, while his plans aren't quite as destructive as most of the others, he had no good intentions or positive/sympathetic qualities. He's a manipulative, power hungry bastard; pure and simple.

Lysandre wants to kill everything except for his shitty team. He's supposed to be well intentioned and the game wants you to sympathize with him but honestly he came across as a gigantic prick to me.

Giovanni, kind of like Ghetsis, doesn't have a destructive goal but also isn't very sympathetic. He's a greedy mobster who does bad shit with no remorse, abandons his son, etc. Cyrus is equal to him because while he is a tragic character, his goal is more evil (wanting to recreate the universe without spirit).

Lusamine was partially influenced by Nihilego so it's difficult to properly rank her. She wasn't always evil and had a mental breakdown. Still, abusing and trying to kill your kids is fucked up so she's more evil than Archie/Maxie.

Maxie and Archie have the best intentions out of any of the villains. They're not malicious and honestly want to help people or Pokemon. When they realize they can't control Groudon/Kyogre they immediately try to help the protagonist. Archie is also easily the kindest and friendliest villain.

>>30151648
>Lysandre wants to kill everything except for his shitty team
he wanted to shoot the weapon against everyone and anyone that survived was a "chosen one" for his ideal world
not defending him in the slightless, just a correction

>>30139028
Ghetsis was just an asshole, Kefka was a sick man who got warped into a monster thanks to magitek experiments.

>>30147621
I wonder if the Faller was Aster.

>>30151908
Shit I don't remember that, but it's been a long time since I last played Y. Now that I think about it, aren't there some story differences between X and Y?

>>30154315
Y he dies
X he's inmortal but buried under the superweapon ruins for the rest of eternity
dont think GF had xerneas in consideration when they made the superweapon plot point so they just went for "lol it grants immortality"

>>30141161
He's still hot

>>30138995
I didn't give a single fuck about Ghetsis and his faggot kid
Lusamine is more interesting.

>>30142740

I love the Ranger Villains. Shadows of Almia is a top tier game