>they dropped the swagger clause but not BP

>some random fags on the net think they can tell me what moves I can and cannot use in battles

I use anything I want and no one can stop me :)

Swagger got nerfed in accuracy. Baton pass only got stronger cause of z-moves.

Makes sense to me.

>>30054783

That's because Swagger was broken due to pranksters. Now that dark types are immune to prankster there are more counter measures.


BP is still as broken as it was last gen, possibly even more broken.

>>30054803
t. online box legends user

>>30054839
>>30054869
Shhh, don't tell them that. Don't you know that Smogon is an evil meanie bully who doesn't want you to use your favorite Pokemon?

OMGON BANS BP
STEALTH ROCK IS OK THO

who cares what these fags think

Reminder that SR can be the textbook definition of overcentralizing, but it is OK because stall would be impossible to Beat without it.

>>30055009
Maybe because without their rulesets, anything beyond the base games is unbalanced as hell.

>>30055048
>overcentralizing

how? it's useful sure, but I don't have to build teams around countering it.

>>30055061
not really

>>30055048
Sneaky Pebbles stops switch faggotry so its ok in my book.

>>30055071
But you do. Your teams absolutely need a spinner or defogger if you want to get to the top.

>>30055048
Here's the issue: Overcentralization is a joke term. It was coined by Smogon, but also trashed by it. People realized it's just an excuse for people to bitch about the metagame, and had nothing to do with the balance of the game. No serious discussion even entertains the word "overcentralizing" because it's a meaningless buzzword. It's exclusively used by people who don't have any valid arguments in order to imply something must be done about a problem that doesn't exist.

>>30055048
SR is one of the biggest checks on stall, people who get butthurt over SR literally do not understand what removing it from the meta would do.

One thing I will just never understand is how people bitch that Smogon OU is too stally then in the same sentence will whine about entry hazards. Rocks are literally anti-stall.

BP should just be banned

>>30055129
just like I "absolutely need" something that resists ground if I don't want to get swept by anything that has access to 100BP Earthquake. That doesn't make Earthquake overcentralizing.

and no, you don't need to absolutely shove a rapid spinner or defogger on every team. It's only completely necessary if one of your key pokemon is weak to it.

>>30054803
So can I
*reveals 6 Klefkis*
He's my bro :))

>>30054783
>playing by smogon rules

nothing makes me laugh more when smogon sheep bitch at me for suing swagplay and speed+other stat passing

I like how nobody had a problem with Swagger and Baton Pass until Smogon told people they were bad and "banned" them.

How can these faggots "ban" anything? They aren't official nor some kind of authority, Gamefreak are.

>>30055179
That's a rather big paragraph to write when your only point is "o-overcentralization don't r-real" with no actual reasoning behind it

>>30056006
>nobody had a problem with Swagger and Baton Pass
My sweet, SWEET summer child

>>30055451
Two can play that game
*Reveal 6 own tempo numels*
Here are my bros :]

>>30056006
They ban them within their own ruleset. They don't pretend to be authorities on the whole game.

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50KB, 596x408px

>>30054783
Both confusion in general and Swagger specifically were nerfed. Prankster too.

BP is stronger than ever with Z boosts being a thing.

BP isnt broken, its just difficult to play against
and have you heard of taunt?

>>30056044
>They don't pretend to be authorities on the whole game.

Yet vp takes everything they say as gospel.

I don't play competitive, but I do know Smogon has no say in VGC rules. Yet this place treats Smogon rules as if they're the only rules that have existed, do exist, and ever will exist.

Isn't Scolipede the mean reason why Smogon neutered Baton Pass? Why don't they just ban the Poke and not the move?

>>30056131
Have you ever actually been here before? You can't have a thread about smogon without a flood of dumbasses coming in to bitch about a format they don't have to play

The problem with Smogon is that most simulators use their rules but cart enforces that shitty 3v3 meme meta or even worse 4v4 doubles.
Then AG lets people run 6 Arceus.

>>30056167
>Have you ever actually been here before?

Why no I haven't newfriend I literally just discovered veepee 5 seconds ago :^)

>You can't have a thread about smogon without a flood of dumbasses coming in to bitch about a format they don't have to play

Is this directed at me? Because even if I did play competitive, I would have enough sense to know that VGC rules are the only real rules.

If you're talking about others, I think they're in the right. Like I said, way too many people here take Smogon as gospel when there's no need. They don't have any say when it comes to sanctioned tournaments, so why the fuck do people listen to them?

>>30056255
>so why the fuck do people listen to them?
Because people like to play on showdown as opposed to on cart

>>30056017
>Some guys made some some meaningless term, it's up to you to disprove my false assertion.

Nah, that's not how it works fag. If people pull the word overcentralization out of thin air and argue the metagame's bad, they're the ones without an argument to begin with. What's there to argue against when someone says "Ban Stealth Rocks because it's overcentralizing." The statement is meaningless. There's no content there. Let's look at that sentence: there's a verb, a noun, a conjunction, a pronoun, and then some meaningless garbage tossed at the end. I could type "Ban Stealth Rocks because it's asdgszyrdha." and it carries about as much meaning. If you want to try and argue that the burden of proof is someone arguing against that latter statement rather than for it, go for it. It'll be entertaining to see what bullshit you can spew out of your mouth.

>>30056255
>so why the fuck do people listen to them?
>>30056226

>>30056314
Except over centralisation is a valid term in the right circumstances you faggot. Take Aegislash in early XY for example. It was banned because the vast majority of teams used it, to the point where every good team had to have counters to it, and counters to those counters if they wanted to succeed. This is "overcentralisation", when something is used so much that the entire meta revolves around it and ways to deal with it. It isn't a meaningless buzzword. That said, yes, saying something is overcentralising just because it's good is pointless.

>>30056427
People seem to be afraid of a certain word because it's got an even worse reputation, but here, for you: Aegislash is not overcentralizing. It's overpowered. It has few counters, is difficult to counter, hits harder than most sweepers while being bulkier than most walls. People tolerated it because it was "beatable" but even its strongest counters could be torn down by slightly tweaking your sets. Aegislash did not warp the metagame around it by some magical force from everyone used it, it warped the metagame around it because it was significantly better than anything else allowed in the tier.

You know what is actually "overcentralizing?" Shooting in FPSes. You can't not shoot. You can shoot in different ways and with different strategies, but ultimately if you want to win, you have to shoot. Does that make shooting overpowered? Should be ban shooting? Obviously not, because overcentralization is a fictional problem that doesn't exist. If you want something that's "overcentralizing" and a little more strategic, look at the carry system in any MOBA. Ultimately, carries are too good to pass up (so no 5 support teams) and are too good to not be supported (so no 5 carry teams), so carries are "overcentralizing" and warp the game around them. Even if you have design philosophy that divvies the power more, ultimately some characters will push the "carry" role while others push the "support" role. It's basically an unavoidable crossroad in that type of game. These types of things aren't a problem, they're just there. That's what overcentralization really is as a concept: it's something that's just part of the game, and it's something that's designed around. Anyone claiming something being overcentralizing is a problem is why the statement is meaningless- they're using a word that, in no context, means what they're trying to say. They have no valid arguments so they throw out a buzzword instead.

>>30056589
What a meaningless argument. Your whole point clinches on your personal definition of overcentralisation. No, shooting in an FPS isn't "overcentralising". It's an essential game mechanic, and of fucking course it shouldn't be banned. That would be like banning the use of moves in pokemon. It's just retarded. ACTUAL overcentralisation would be a weapon that's just so much better than the rest that you're gimping yourself by not using one and preparing to face against one. By the same concept, Aegislash is overcentralising because it's used in the majority of teams, and it's used in the majority of teams because it's overpowered.

>>30056749
>>30056589
Additionally, I'd like to now if you don't think overcentralisation is a thing because of your personal definition, or because you genuinely don't think there's a problem with an entire meta revolving around one particular overpowered element. And no, I'm not talking about a basic game mechanic, but a singular thing, like Aegislash, or a weapon.

>>30056749
If you have a weapon that's so good that it gimps you for not using it, it's overpowered. If Aegis is virtually impossible to counter and counters almost the entirety of the metagame, it's overpowered.

If they're overpowered, you can nerf them and put them back into the balance of the game (or ban them if you're a community tiering system like Smogon). If they're overcentralizing, no matter how hard you nerf something you can't get rid of its presence without removing it from the game entirely.

By my own argument, Stealth Rocks is actually overcentralizing, because if you ban it people will just use Spikes, if you ban that they'll use Toxic Spikes, and if you ban that they'll use Sticky Web. The overcentralizing effects of hazards only go away when you remove them from the game entirely, that's what' overcentralization is. Your gun isn't overcentralizing because ultimately it's the best gun because it's the best at shooting people, making it overpowered, and once you nerf it a different gun will be the best at shooting people.

Overcentralizing, by the general publics term, is "It's in the game and I hate it so it's bad please remove it" and that's the entire argument people try and base entire tiering discussions on. It's something people have significantly stopped using after Gen 4, but low level players still cling to it as if it was some sort of gospel.

>>30055048
Tbh I'd be fine with SR if the damage was moved down a tier (6.25% for mons neutral to rock, 12.5% for mons weak to it, etc). Losing 25% or 50% of your health just from switching in is just ridiculous. Also makes Spikes completely inferior.

Reminder that donut buge is the whole reason why BP became strong

Just fucking ban scolipede

>>30055267
What would removing SR do>?

>tfw want to play singles
>tfw dislike battle spot because 3v3 is too fast paced
>tfw smogon is ruining their ruleset with shitty bans and clauses
I agree with some like swagger and evasion
but ruining baton pass is a step too far

>>30056985
It means there is no cost on switching pokemon.
Defensive teams thrive on being able to switch to the pokemon that walls whatever the opponent has out, and keeping their entire team healthy.

That said, fuck Gamefreak for not making SR damage typeless by now.

>>30056255
VGC banned megas from their next tournament. Should I make threads complaining that megas are banned forever in every play format as well?
Now you might understand why people who don't play on Showdown but complain about Smogon are dumb.

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596KB, 1000x801px

>>30056985
Some good things for moths.

>>30056040
*reveals the Splash Plate HP Water Klefki tech*
my best bro :]