New meta soon. What are your hopes, fears, etc... for this new

The Protective Pads and Adrenaline Orb are nice additions to the item set. I just wish the Adrenaline Orb was either not one time use or worked like Defiant/Competitive.

>>29953851
Most new pokemons are average as fuck and, in general, ridiculously slow. Only some will maybe see some use in OU, most will probably be UU.

something about the terrain extender

>>29953851
Does venoshock work with merciless?

>>29953956
yes

>>29953851
Toxapex + Ferrothorn will dominate the meta. Decidueye will see use in OU because it can harass both.
Trapping with Dugtrio will be a dominant strategy.

>>29953956
Of course it does, that's why they gave Toxapex shitty Spa.

using the Z move on some moves can give an all stat boost and some of the pokémon who can do that also learn baton pass
will be fun desu

assault vest alola golem's gonna be fun too

>>29953851

>anything used earthquake!

just kidding I know its awesome when tagged with ferromeme

>>29954054
>unown used HP ground

>>29954002
So if you poision the target you are treated as having 106 spa BST. And venoshock now hits decent. And you can still take a hit.

That's cool. Kinda wanna use one in my playtrough.

>>29953851
Looks like Ferrothorn got himself a butt buddy

>>29954075
It also gets regenerator. If the opponent uses earthquake and you switch to a flying type, you get a free heal.

>>29953983
>Decidueye will see use in OU because it can harass both
How?

Waiting to see if it's confirmed that Decidueye and Dhelmise's trapping moves are permanent or not.
Otherwise this gen will probably be filled to the brim with Tapu stuff, which I'm not particularly fond of.

In this new Meta of Poison, could Komala be the savior we need?

>Comatose

>>29953983
OR you can use Mega Medicham or Magnezone and deal with both while also having really viable pokemon instead of a meme owl.
>>29954251
Smogon confirmed they work like any other trapping moves.

>>29954054
Sash explosion is probably better

>>29954275
>mega medicham
>viable

>>29954215
Double resists Toxapex, is immune to leech seed, is immune to iron barbs, can lock both of them in and then boost with NP/SD and then batton pass to a sweeper.

>>29953871
This is my first time hearing of Protective Pads, what do they do?

>>29954356
>Double resists Toxapex
What did he mean by this?
>>29954352
What did he mean by this?

>>29954251
worse trapping because Ribombee completely ignores it

>>29954352
It's a better choice than Decidueye to handle those two.

>>29954101
I still think Toxapex is better with regenerator, now if Crobat gets merciless as rumored, then you can use the Brobat as a late sweeper after everything is poisoned.

>>29954275
Magnezone is going to be exiled from OU by Dugtrio.

>>29954381
It's like Long Reach, you don't get affected by things that exploit contact moves.

>>29954275
Welp, then they are garbage.

>>29954356
>can lock both of them in
Oh, I forgot about this...

>>29954381
It's Robinhoot's ability in item form. That guy didn't mention Terrain Extenders and the Terrain Gems.

>>29954434
>Terrain Gems
This sounds interesting, also what else can learn the terrain moves?

What's with these retards saying that Decidueye and Dhelmise can trap stuff and boost on them or something? Are you retarded? If you switch Decidueye into something, they'll just switch into their counter before you can use the trapping move, and then you'll be forced out.
The only potential those moves have is that you get a bit of switch initiative, which u-turn, baton pass and volt switch already do but much better.

>>29954455
IIRC Terrain Gems are consumable items that raise your defense by one if you're in the right terrain.

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>>29953851
bring on this shit wall

>>29953851
>fears

A way for stall to deal with this being in every team

Tapu-lele
Life orb
-Psyshock
-Moonblast
-Focus Blast
-Taunt/Shadow Ball

M-Alakazam
-Psyshock
-Shadow ball
-Focus blast
-Encore

Magerna
Leftovers
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire

Pheromosa
Life Orb
Poison Jab
H Jump Kinck
Ice Beam
U-turn

Dugtrio

Magnezone

>>29953851
my biggest fear is that genies and tapus will be in every single team

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>>29954479
Owltards are mentally ill.
Sealtards and Tigertards are slightly behind them but Owltards are the most delusional of them all.

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>>29954404
I saw a post calming this a while back, but there was no source. If this happens though. Brobat is my all time second favorite pokemon.

Thoughts?
>OU Meta viable new Pokemon:
Toxipex
Mimikyu
Pheromosa
Buzzwole
Xurkitree
Nihilego
Kartana
Celesteela
Primarina
Araquanid
Shiinotic
Bewear
Golisopod
Magearna

Some of the UBs will be banned to Ubers, Marshadow is easily an Uber suspect already.

New ou meta 2 genies 4 tapus = 6 meanies

>>29954455
Psychic Seed and Misty Seed raise Special Defense in their respected forms. Electric Seed and Grassy Seed raise Defense in theirs.

lele-chan for next clefable!

decidueye a shit!

>>29954621
Fuck, I forgot the Tapus.

Koko seems to be the worst though.

>>29954573
Nice Lele set, i would put thunderbolt as last move just to catch pesky water types and skarmory.

M-Alakazam and Lele with shadow ball is too much.

>>29954656
Koko is great.
130 base speed
Calm Mind Roost
Cucks sleep inducers
Cucks rest
It just has electric type coverage syndrome.

>>29954621
>leaving out decidu "next greninja" eye
assmad sealfag spotted

>>29953871
I've been thinking that the Adrenaline Orb could help to fuck with Landorus. Bulky special attacking pokemon with Ice-beam could really fuck it over.

>>29954689
i have mine on a rain team with thunder spam. shit's strong as fuck

>>29954621
I don't think Goli is gonna make it. It's super predictable and easy to abuse

>>29954729
Not really worth it since it's single use only.

>>29954621
I can't see Araquanid getting much done. It got decent special bulk and strong water moves, but everything else is shit

>>29954673
Surprisngly, there are only 2 things that can take tapu lele and alakazam.

Jirachi Special defensive 100/100/100 bulk

and (drum roll)

A-Muk, whose has 105/100 special bulk and doesn't care about psyshock, gets pursuit and knock off, and Gunk Shot.

Nothing and I mean nothing can tank that coverage with psychic terrain boosted psyshock + moonblast + focus blast, bar aegislash

>>29954621
>Prima
>Araq
>any chance at OU
LOL

Let me get this straight
Is Golisopod's ability a free Eject Button?

>>29953871
What's adrenaline orb?

>>29954819
kinda, it works great with his signature move too.

>>29954819
but with an added bonus

it prevents u-turn. So Golisopod, is a hard counter to momentum. and when you combine with a trapper, the opponent is trapped no matter what attack he uses, unless he switches out.

>>29954573
Mimikyu with max attack, life orb and the following moves can break through nearly any wall:
Swords Dance
Play Rough
Shadow Sneak
Shadow Claw/Wood Hammer/ Leech Life

It gets a free swords dance when you switch to something you think will be able to handle it.

Skarmory and Ferrorthorn both have over an 80% chance of getting 2HKO'd by +2 Mimikyu's Shadow Claw.
Scizor gets knocked out before it can do any damage via Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak. Same thing with Heatran, Landorus-T and max defense Clefable.
Chansey gets 2HKO'd
Rotom Wash has a high chance of getting OHKO'd by play rough after rocks, wood hammer doesn't need rocks.

No Pokemon resists both ghost and fairy so Mimikyu just has to be good on predictions.

>>29954860
Increases speed by a stage when Intimidated. The pokemon still gets attack drop.

>>29954621
>Araquanid
No, it's a worse Azumarill and a complete sitting duck against everything that resists Water

>Shiinotic
Stats too low, but might see use in UU

>Primarina
Inferior Sylveon, bad physical bulk, UU

>Bewear
It's bulky but I'm not feeling it

>Golisopod
It's pretty easy to abuse Golisopod's ability to completely neuter him. Protect first turn to defend from First Impression, force him out next turn. But it might be used, it's a fun gimmickmon

No complaints about the rest, but Pheromosa and Kartana at least might bet banned

>>29954920
>Inferior Sylveon, bad physical bulk, UU
It's too shitty for UU, sent it to RU.

>>29954819
I feel like it being so slow actually gives it a benefit. It means that the pokemon coming in after can actually revenge kill without taking a hit, provided that it's fast enough. Goli is a real team player.

I've got fear about Lele. That thing is going to dominate hardcore.

If Tapu fini gets scald we're fucked.

>>29953879
Toxapex, all Tapu, both events, both box legends and all of the UBs except Guzzlord will be OU or higher for sure. Golisopod, Kommo-o and Silvally will probably be BL or higher. Dhelmise, Salazzle, and Ninetails-A will see use in OU but probably won't be used enough to be OU by usage.

I'd say in a gen with only 80 new pokemon and less than 40 fully evolved forms that's not a bad ratio of goodmons ot shitmons.

>>29954920
>protect being run on anything strong enough to take godpod below 50 in one hit
Podchamp is FAT

>>29954996
I want her to dominate me

>>29954920
could Goli use that predictability as a gimmick? It has access to taunt

>>29953851
Wait, so does that mean the
65 Power Venoshock becomes
130 Power Venoshock
...when the target is poisoned....
AND THEN
260 Power if Toxapex is running Merciless?

What the shit?

Also, 100% criticals on this bastard makes ANY Defense Boosted opponent completely pointlessly boosted. It just crits right though, doesn't it? And of course the opponent will be poisoned, so all moves will be crits. Right??/

>>29954996
pack those specially defensive jirachis, gunk shot greninjas

where the fuck can i see descriptions for all the new moves?

>>29955023
Since you're counting alola ninetales it'd be more like 100 which would make the good-shitmon ratio nearly gen 2 level bad

>>29955023
Kommo-o is shittier than Hydreigon, it won't be BL.

>>29955041
no you want to hit things with him

>>29955059
Crits aren't X2 anymore, 'member?

>>29955059
crits boost by 1.5 now, not 2

and 50+ spatk mean he hits about as hard as non life orb sludge bomb from gengar at max damage.

>>29954996
Top Lel/Megazam is going to be the new meme for the first week or two of showdown and BSS.

I'm working on a BSS team built around it. Scarf Xurkitree is also really fucking stupid.

>>29955059
It's even better than that, since crits also bypass screens and stat boosts. (I think it does so for burn attack nerf too.)

New abilities on the other 9001 pokemon before this game (Like Merciless and Regenerator) are gonna destroy the meta.

>>29955023
See
>>29954902
Mimikyu gets a free swords dance because of its ability and can OHKO or 2HKO most of the meta.

SD Mimikyu pretty much forces the opponent to sacrifice one Pokémon to beat it.

>>29955084
Hydreigon doesn't have setup and good for UU bulk, combined with an ability that makes it immune to the the best fairy in the tier's main fairy move.

>>29955111
>>29955114
Oh, didn't know that, no. That's still incredible.

>>29955135
Screens, too? Ahahaha, oh fuck. Merciless has no mercy.

>>29954996
psychic + fairy spam is coming back with a vengence.

prepare your steels for incoming focus blasts.

>>29954610
I'm just glad when non rare pokemon turn out to be really good. Azumarill was great in my BW2 playthrough.

>>29955115
I think I'm gonna run VoltTurn just so I can deal with Lele. Pack a scarfer that beats both Alakazam and Lele.

once again it'll be stall: the game since eviolite, scald, and unaware werent actually nerfed and smogon bans anything offensively powerful while not also trying to balance defensive play

>>29955161
it's got work up and sylveon will drop to RU once shiny new toy syndrome wears off on tapu lele

>>29955209
As a stall player myself don't count on it. This gen is gonna be hyper offense.

>>29955161
Hydreigon has work up, no counters and has decent bulk, speed tier as well as Thunder Wave, Tailwind and recovery, can rock many sets such as stallbreaker with taunt, wallbreaker, scarf sweeper and specs and has two immunities to boot.

Kommo-o is slow, has a good offensive typing but defensive stats, his speed tier makes him an inferior DDer to Haxorus and Salamence, no utility, no strong fighting moves, no recovery and while he's immune to Hyper Voice it gets hit for SE damage by coverage moves from Hyper Voice users.

>>29955257
maybe for the first month
as i said earlier, anything that can actually deal damage gets banned in favor of 1000 turn shitfests

>>29955298
>that can actually deal damage

I believe the term is, has no checks. Any pokemon that can't be checked and can function without any support is a no no. Every team would be hyper offense, limiting playstyle variety.

Any of the starters have potential? I see the grass one as a good way to trap and curse stallmons

>>29955410
They're all nothing special. At the absolute best they'll make UU.

>>29955410
They are all RU shit. The owl will be a good Showderp meme.

>>29955410
Prima is typical bulky Water type with Fairy added on for free

>>29954920
>Bewear
>It's bulky but I'm not feeling it

It can phase, the bulk is actually really crazy, it has pain split and flail shenanigans, Bulk Up or SD sets to abuse it's high atk and bulk, and good coverage as well. It also gets taunt.

It may end up in UU, but there's more to say than just "It's bulky"

>>29955451
And no recovery, no utility, and no physical bulk. Just coverage and good spatk.

>>29955410
I think Decidueye has one move people overlook that gives it an interesting niche.

Low Sweep

Ghosts don't wanna switch in on Decidueye, so they are guaranteed a -1 speed. This also limits many fast sweepers (under base 130 speed + dragon dancer + scarf TTar, weavile from switching in).

This is the set I had in mind:
Decidueye
Leftovers
Jolly
252 HP 252 Speed 4 atk
-Spirit Shackle
-Low Sweep
-U-turn
-Roost/Defog

>>29955404
>aegis didnt have checks
>mawile didnt have checks
>genesect didnt have checks

only absolute broken shit like mega luke and mega mence really had no checks. Anything that can actually beat defensive play gets the axe.

>>29955451
Good special defence, but lacks HP, DEF and some kind of recovery.
Strangely good coverage though.

>>29954101
But that's wrong. Merciless allows all hits to crit; forst of all, that's a 1.5 boost, not 2x. Secondly, it applies to the attack damage itself, not the stat; if I were to estimate the damage involved, it would be closer to 90 BST fully invested. That's a lot of setup for a fairly weak move with bad coverage.

In-game it should be fine, however.

>>29955439
Shackle/Curse/Roost/Sub set when?

>>29955439
>184 days in Alola owl
>184 days under the sea anchor
>Citizen Kicks Tsareena
>AV Pyukumaru
>Alola Rockbar

I sure can't wait for the meme sets to roll in.

>>29955533
That's what I said. I'm agreeing with you famalam. Anything that that doesn't have checks and can hit the ground running, is likely to get banned.

>>29955586
my point is that those 3 pokemon did have checks, depending on the set and you couldnt just faceroll them like you can with certain others, yet they got banned anyway.

>>29954054
>shuckle used mud slap

>>29955547
You're right, but also wrong. On Venoshock, it's STAB boosted, too, so...

>>29954404
>>29954610
Crobat doesn't get Merciless.

>>29955537
I feel like they got Delphox and Primarina mixed up.

Delphox
>okay speed and good special attack
>okay STAB that requires good coverage to fully shine
>but its coverage is nothing special
>utility moves it can't use effectively like Wish

Primarina
>Fantastic STAB that barely requires extra coverage
>got every single coverage move it might ever need
>no utility at all aside from Encore

>>29953851
what? Just switch to magnezone and the wall is cooked. Tapu Lele is the actual big threat

>>29955547
>That's a lot of setup for a fairly weak move with bad coverage.
Vexapex will always poison a target. Always. That's not "setup." It will attack with a poisonous move (before or after it sets up its walls, that's not the point). The "setup" of "afflicting poison with a powerful poison attack" is not really a setup at all. And once the opponent is poisoned or Toxic and losing health like a biyatch, literally any attacking move from Texapex is not Critical Hits of 1.5x damage and ignoring all Defense Stat Boosts and Screens/Walls and any Water/Poison move ALSO gets a 1.5x STAB damage boost.

So, no setup beyond "use the first move to afflict poison", no. With HUGE defenses to begin with, getting in a first move is pretty easy and that poison isn't wearing off any time soon.

>>29955410
The Water one could have been a better Vaporeon if it had access to any form of recovery, but it doesn't. Maybe move tutors will make them somewhat decent, but the only one I see working is the grass one
Shackle/Curse/U-turn/Roost

You can switch in on a stallmon, curse in, throw in something that resists it and you can start to set up with the new mon. If it had Will-O-Whisp it would have been great, as you could have set up on Physical attackers and just went ham with your new mon

>>29955759
stall mon is not gonna stay in and typically has recover + toxic, which still beats 1/4 from curse. And you will be pressured to roost since curse drops you to half while toxic wears you.

>>29955410
No, all the starters are almost good

if Spirit Shackle had priority or a pursuit effect then Decid would have been OU material

If Prim had more support and a reliable recovery it could have been a better Sylveon

Incineroar just needs help. Alot of help

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>>29955205
>Pheremosa/Xurkitree volt turn core

>>29955736
So you're expecting any random mon to just stay in? And what "strong Poison move that inflicts Poison?" You mean Toxic? T-spikes? Either one is a turn of setup. T-spikes is more viable for this set, but Toxic is more viable overall. Either way, do you think they'll really stay in on a Toxapex that is obviously not healing damage with Regenerator? What stops them from switching to a Poison or Steel-type? It's just not strong enough to work. It's a fun gimmick set, but that's it.

"nullifies the ability of the Pokemon holding it" item when?

>>29955859
Incineroar needed the actually good dark type moves, like Pursuit and Sucker Punch. Seriously, Emboar and Decidueye get Sucker Punch while this thing doesn't.

>>29955917
fuck that, buff Ring Target so it classifies all hits as contact

>>29955917
Never because of Slaking.

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>>29955893
>slowturn Pelliper into M-Swampert with mega changes

>>29955859
>Incineroar is so shitty its preevo is almost better than it.

>>29955018
except misty terrain prevents statuses for grounded pokemon so it's pretty useless for once

>>29955648
Yes, it's a 165~ base attack coming off of 90~ spatk after a turn of setup, and assuming the opponent is braindead and doesn't switch.

What alohlan Pokemon are viable?

>>29955966
you mean Regigigas, with a movepool and stats like his the only thing holding it back is it's ability

Slaking unironically would not be broken in the current meta if Truant was changed to be more usable/removed all together

>>29956205
Muk is an absolute monster
Ninetails

Raichu could work?

>>29956110
it not stronger than Life orb sludge bomb from gengar, but it is stronger than no-life orb sludge bomb, after doing calcs

>>29955966
They can just not make it work on certain Pokemon.

>>29956208
the only difference between Regigigas and Slaking is that Regigigas has better special bulk though. Also Slaking has a better movepool.

>>29955135
>since crits also bypass screens and stat boosts
When did this happen?

>>29956110
>>29955896
By that note, rather than "setup" anything with this mon, just lay down T-Spikes with any mon in your party while everyone on the other team gets poisoned and then bring Mr. "Ignores all Defense Stat boosts with constant Crits and also has ridiculous damage for something with only 50 base ATK/SPATK but also walls you because it has enormous DEF/SPDEF and also has recover and oh by the way Venom Drench lowers your ATK/SPATK/SPEED each time it's used, too so that wall is gonna get reeeeeeally tough to crumble when swapping between that and recover as needed."

I don't claim this thing is impossible or doesn't have counters or no checks or something (Hell, any poison or steel won't even get poisoned in the first place) just saying: this is a recovering wall that poisons and also gets critical power with all its moves on anything that it poisons so it gets deceptively strong power on anything with anything (except those immune to poison).

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>>29953851
My predictions:

>Z-Moves will be a rarely-used gimmick.
>FerroPex ft. Cancerbat will be the bane of our existence.
>Fairyspam will dominate the meta and force people to run FerroPex as a counter. Lele-chan will get suspected.
>Marshadow is the first Alola suspect, if it's not quickbanned beforehand.
>Pelipper will briefly soar to OU and with his help, Tapu Koko will spam 100% Accurate 180 BP Thunders all day long.
>Dugtrio or Arena Trap will be suspected. This already almost happened because of the massive butthurt M-Sableye+Dugtrio caused, this gen only buffs Dugtrio even more.
>Mantine will rise to OU.
>Alola Golem will rise quickly to UU as a powerful exploding suicide lead then fall back down as people realize suicide leads aren't actually good.
>Araquanid will break the low-tier meta as people realize its ability also doubles the power of Water-type moves. It'll be banned from at least one lower tier.
>Megazam will be easy OU thanks to Lele-chan.
>Pyukumuku will inexplicably be somewhere above PU before everyone realizes how worthless it is and it drops.

>>29954621
My predictions:
Tapu Koko
Tapu Fini
Toxapex
Tapu Lele (will be suspected)
Marshadow (will be suspected)
Necrozma
Dugtrio (will be suspected)
Pelipper (yes, seriously)
Mantine
Magearna
Buzzwole
Xurkitree
Diancie-Mega (Mega speed got fixed)

>>29956256
but it also takes more setup. Gengar can do that in one turn, and outspeed the opposing mon; Toxapex has to set up, hope the opponent doesn't switch, and then take a hit to deal somewhat decent damage. Additionally, Gengar would have 3 other offensive moves to attack opposing Pokemon with, so it's not dead weight if the opponeny gathers a couple brain cells and switches.

>>29956321
The thing is, it can't do all that at once. Like you and I both said, if there's a Poison or Steel Pokemon, then it's completely useless. It's also completely predictable and doesn't have enough coverage to work with, and if you go the offensive route you sacrifice bulk. It just isn't viable, especially considering it gets Regenerator as an alternative ability.

>>29956205
Muk and Ninetails

Ninetails because 109 speed 100% accurate blizzard + moonblast + freeze dry + nasty plot.

Muk being a hard counter and can tank anything the following Meta will be over crowded with:

Tapu-lele
Alakazam
Latios
M-Gardevior

>>29956235
What about marowak?

>>29956456
too slow, not bulky enough, and while it's strong, it doesn't seem worth it. Rock Head Flare Blitz is cool, and if it got Shadow Sneak it might be somewhat usable, but barely any more than current Marowak is.

>>29956456
I can't picture seeing much done with him besides gimmicks since it is immune to burn and para

>>29956291
literally always

>>29954621
OU Viable (Singles):
Tapu Koko
Tapu Lele (suspect)
Tapu Bulu
Tapu Fini (may be UU or BL)
Toxapex (It will remain until psychic spam becomes too much and Pheromosa gets banned)
Marshadow (banned)
Pheromosa (suspect)
Pelipper
Magearna
Xurkitree (BL likely)
Kartana (may be suspect)
Mimikyu
Golisopod
Araquanid

das it

>>29956482
Well, it does get 3 immunities with Lightning Rod, and is a physical attacker that can't be burned.

>>29954621
>Toxipex
Yes
>Mimikyu
No
>Pheromosa
Uber
>Buzzwole
Maybe
>Xurkitree
Yes
>Nihilego
Maybe
>Kartana
Yes (Suspect test)
>Celesteela
Yes
>Primarina
No
>Araquanid
Unlikely
>Shiinotic
Maybe
>Bewear
Has a chance
>Golisopod
Unlikely
>Magearna
Yes
>all tapus
Yes

Anyone here familiar with VGC format?
I'm trying to build a Gen 7 team with it and I need advice.

>>29955161
You have zero fucking clue what Hydreigon does. Hydreigon doesn't need set up. It has immediate power with Draco Meteor off a base 125 special attack. Specs nets 2HKOs on nearly everything, scarf outspeed everything and still has power and momentum thanks to U-turn, and Life Orb Taunt/Roost+3 attacks fucks balance and stall like you'd never believe. Base 98 speed is also surprisingly good for UU. Hydreigon's typing also allows it to glue many teams together offensively. It's a force to be reckoned with to the point that it was just fucking suspected. Seriously, look at the UU viability rankings. It's number one in the S rank (which switched from alphabetical to in-letter rankings recently).

Kommo-o is more comparable to Gyrarados since I'm assuming DDance will be its best set. It also has to work with low BP STAB in the form of Waterfall while having a shallow attacking movepool. Gyarados is good and I think Kommo-o will be good as well, but to compare one of many set up sweepers to literally the best mon in the fucking tier is baffling to me.

>>29956653
>can't be burned, avoids most paralysis
>10 resistance/immunities
>120 defense
It might be decent at best.

>>29956744
understand synergy.

>>29955280
>>29955224
Hydreigon doesn't use Work Up you niggerfaggots. It also doesn't use Thunder Wave or Tailwind. It's It's all about immediate power and its ability to pivot, sweep, or wallbreak depending on its set.

Sylveon isn't dropping to RU, it's the best gluemon in the tier. Remember Florges? Yeah that bitch is dropping because Sylveon does everything she does but better. And none of the Tapus fill Sylveon's role.

Also Haxorus is dogshit and Salamence was banned.

>>29956804
I'm trying to do so. I've got a team of Pelliper/Xurkitree/Koko/Garchomp
The idea is that Koko and Pelliper can set Rain and Electric Terrain to help facilitate the Scarf Xuriktree shitting Thunders down on everything while Garchomp is ready to tag in off of a U-Turn/Volt Switch and get some kills with his coverage-focused moveset.

Could something like this work?

>>29956747
I hear it gets shell smash in the battle tree

>>29957000
And not in its learnset.

>>29956205
Lemme just go down the line with each one and give a brief analysis.

>Sandslash
Garbage. Worse than the original, a straight nerf. Don't even bother.

>Ninetales
Snow Warning is great, weather setting is extremely useful. Aurora Veil + other buffs to hail (e.g. Slush Rush Beartic) mean that Alola Ninetales will probably be THE lead for hail. But, the fact remains that hail is perhaps the worst weather. Nevertheless, it has decent stats and Fairy type is great.

>Raticate
They took Raticate and made it bulkier... which means they made it weaker and slower. Thick Fat is decent but let's be honest, it's not "bulking" anything with that awful BST. Dark-type Raticate would've been a good attacker with Sucker Punch and Pursuit - making him slow, bulky, and weak takes that away. It's shit, might not even see use in PU.

>Raichu
It's just Raichu with Psychic STAB. It also benefits from all terrains. It'll be decent.

>Dugtrio
Loss of Arena Trap hurts. Sand Force is good on something that's already so fast. It's basically a low-tier budget Excadrill, by which I mean it'll probably be NU or something.

>Muk
A straight buff to Muk. Same stats, better type, and equally meh abilities. However it's still just a slightly buffed Muk... and Muk is PU. Don't get your hopes up.

>Exeggutor
Low-tier at best. Straight up worse than others of its type with pretty meh abilities. Too slow to sweep and its bulk isn't enough for its weaknesses. It'll see use but not near OU.

>Golem
Interesting suicide lead with Stealth Rock and Galvanize. But Rock/Electric does it no favors on defense, it has shit for SpD, and it's hard walled by Skarmory. Not reaching OU, ever.

>Marowak
Bad typing, no priority, meh physical bulk with SR/EQ weakness and bad special bulk. Could be strong with Thick Club but 45 Speed dooms it. Wasted potential.

>Persian
Surprisingly bulky with Fur Coat. It'll see use in lower tiers as a Parting Shot/Taunt pivot but its mostly shit stats will keep it RU or lower.

>>29956856
how would you deal with this lead for example

A-marowak + Discharge A-Raichu

ITT: Everyone who has never played UU has an opinion about it

>>29956856
swap garchomp with salamence, the team will appreciate intimidate support

>>29957051
Then reply to people whose conclusions you disagree with and have a discussion, instead of proclaiming how wrong everyone is and supplying no ideas of your own.

>>29957071

>just have a discussion with people who weren't willing to educate themselves on the topic of discussion before spouting their opinions as law

No thanks. I'd rather shitpost.

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>>29957104
>everyone is uneducated and dumb and I'm right about everything
>how am I always right? it's easy, I just don't say what my opinion is and act superior
At least you admit you're shitposting.

>>29957045
Hope they aren't running too much Bulk on that Raichu and go for the Signal Beam on Raichu. Has a decent chance of one-shotting it. For Peliper I can either use U-Turn and hope to kill that Raichu and switch into the Chomp to make dealing with Marowak more comfortable.

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It's the end of the priority generation, but the new stuff seem rather daunting. I primarily play 3v3 Battle Spot so I'm worried about some of the stuff like the Ultra Beasts with their lopsided stats as well as auto-Terrains, new weather setters and Z-Moves possibly setting up a quick sweep. You don't have the luxury of having a full team to fall back on in 3v3 setting and every team member needs to be able to handle specific threats, so the Karenfag team I've been using throughout Gen 6 will probably need heavy tweaking.

Most of the Pokemon I've been looking forward to using have been underwhelming like Turtonator, Drampa, Silvally and Guzzlord. I'm still looking forward to Silvally however, it seems like the perfect mon to look into when you've decided on 3 or 4 of your team and you need a glue member to tie things together.

>>29957282
3v3 is going to become unplayable this gen. It was already hard because there were just so many threats to deal with but now that the UBs are actually allowed so many matchups will be won by team preview alone. This is a problem for full battles too but at least you have more mons to mitigate the problem.

>>29957221
surge surfer on electric terrain means raichu outspeeds tapu koko and can kill pelipper

>>29957135

Nah, it's called picking your battles.

I /could/ write three paragraphs about how these people are fundamentally misunderstanding how Hydregion, Sylveon, their relationships with other pokemon in the tier, and the inner-tier tiering system works, but that would require me to assume these people care about my opinions.

Anyone who willingly does no research of their own, or doesn't even play the tier, or hasn't ever broken low ladder, most likely does not care about my opinion. I doubt you even care, but feel like stroking your own unwarranted sense of logical superiority. Therefore, this is a battle I will not fight, because it will gain me nothing.

This is my last reply.

>>29956291
Always, just crits were so hard to proc nobody ever noticed it before. By the time you could efficiently proc crits (Gen 6) the damage had been nerfed so there was no point anymore.

However it was really fucking devastating in the hands of something like Kingdra and basically let you throw even -6 Draco Meteors at 225% the power of your regular s.atk.

I think the only other things in the game which can do the same is Fearow and Ariados as of Gen 7.

>>29954781
Its ability + liquidation is insane

>>29957345

Critdra is fucking infuriating.

>>29957443
No it isn't

>>29957648

It can 2HKO a Skarmory.

That's pretty good. He will most likely find a nice home towards the top of RU.

>>29957062
Huh. Does Mence have access to the same varied movepool as Chomp? The Poison Jab/EQ/Dragon Claw/Brickbreak moveset is really versatile.

I'm excited for hopefully new UU mons. All of these mons look fun as fuck.

Gosliopod or whatever is going to be pretty good. Nothing amazing, but it looks fun as fuck.

>>29953851
I just want Wishiwashi to be good.

>>29957902
It's really good ingame

>>29954518
That thing is going to be fun as fuck.

>tail glow
>tailwind probably
>everything dies

Too bad it's outspeeded by a ton of OU threats. Still gonna be cool though. UBs in general will be fun to mess with. I really fucking hope Buzzwole isnt trash

>>29957940
It's about as good as a Scarf Heracross, but with access to better coverage moves.

>>29954689
It gets Taunt too. Shame it's a physical attacker and doesn't get Play Rough, but it's not garbage.

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>>29957968
I know that much. I just mean I hope the meta is kind to it. If it's in OU I'll do all I can to make it work on a team.

I fucking love Buzzwole. Too bad it dies if you so as blow on it with a special move.

Well, it could be worse.

>>29958007
I couldn't see it going down past BL, but I share your feelings. I'm going to try building a team around it because it's so much fun to use in just the Battle Tree. I have it paired with a Mudsdale and Chansey.

>>29957845
It doesn't really have an answer to fairies but it has good Sp. Attack and a good range of special moves like and Hydro Pump so it doesn't suffer from intimidate spam as much

>>29958047
With Tapu as Mixed, Xurk as Spec and Peliper as Spec, can I really afford another Special Attacker?

>>29954597
i really, really like this image

>>29958029
I think it might have a niche as a revenge killer or something. Give it an AV and it probably tanks a few good hits, depending on the type. It'll love having rocks to deal with any flying type that tries to fuck with it. Beast Boost might help it too.

I hope it gets Ice Punch in a game or two. That and Drain Punch. Why does the physical mosquito Pokemon not get Drain Punch?

It gets Leech Life, but still.

Also I just realized that Hoopa-Unbound is going to hate Ubers if UB-02 Beauty gets in.

>>29958169
It gets all of the elemental punches already. They're relearn moves.

>>29954920
Kartana will not be banned, it's not as strong as it looks. The low base power of its STABs means that it doesn't even hit as hard as a Terrakion that uses Close Combat. Do the calcs.

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>>29954597
>no set up move to actually make use of BP
It's like you're not even trying.

>>29958232
You can pass the trapping from Spirit Shackle.

>>29958232
I shit you not I have seen that exact set posted in multiple threads discussing the owls viability.

>>29958191
It does? Could have sworn I only saw TPunch on there. Whatever.

I still think it should get Drain Punch. On the topic of that why does Lycanroc-Day not get EQ

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Would a team like this be any good in OU?

>>29958281
Major issue: You have not one but TWO priority dependent Pokemon that you apparently intend to use in Psychic Terrain.

>>29958227
Kartana will die from a Unown HP Fire. That HP with that SpD is pitiful.

>>29958265
The only thing it'll really be good at is being another Celebi to fuck RU into outright banning BP like UU just did thanks to NP/SD passing. In that way it'll be really good but in a way that most competitive-illiterate faggots on /vp/ won't recognize.

>>29956734
>>Mimikyu
>No
Nice meme.

>>29955972
Did golbat get merciless too?
I'm imagining a set with
Eviolite
Toxic spikes
Whirlwind/venom drench
Roost
Venoshock

>>29958281
seems rather slow

Pheromosa + Dugtrio can destroy this whole team

>>29957648
the defense drop rate will be key here. if it drops your defenses you are fugged. so it's a spam worthy move

>>29958281
what sets are you running?

is your team built around wallbreaker Lele?

>>29958324
Mamoswine benefits from mach punch/bullet punch nullified and I was thinking of running Scizor scarfed with iron head

>>29958472
I expect both of those to be booted to ubers fairly quick. Dugtrio's already OU worthy as it is without the 20+ attack

>>29958561
even if those get banned how will you deal with:

>>29954573

>>29958561
I'd count on a quickban for Phero but I think Dugtrio will stick around longer if it's banned at all. You should plan to deal with it.

>>29958561
>>29958599

Bacause of Duggie i was thinking to pair up Lele with Weavile

>>29955537
So you give it an Assult vest and let it laugh off every special attack in the world while hitting back with it's versatile moveset and great special attack.

Have Wish support to deal with lack of recovery or make a resttalk vest set with Moonblast/Scald or Moonblast/Hypervoice

>>29956833
>>29956833
>Hydreigon doesn't use Thunder Wave
Some people have used it
>or Tailwind.
It has been used in doubles.
>Also Haxorus is dogshit
Best DDer in the tier since mence was banned
>Salamence was banned.
Bans are being reset.

>>29958624
Golisopod will be key to maintainig and stopping momentum traps

I also reccomend shed shell

>>29958452
Neither of them did, that was an unsubstantiated rumor.

>>29957975
>Shame it's a physical attacker
So is Nidoking technically
Guess what, everyone uses its special moves.

>>29958597
Speaking of that, that team is gonna be ass to face. I was thinking of running VoltTurn with Koko and Mega Scizor, with U-turn on Koko to escape Dugtrio. Not sure what else to run though.

>>29954920
Sylveon is an inferior Sylveon this gen as well thanks to the nerf

>>29958772
What nerf? I never heard any fairy nerfs.

>>29958599
Levitate should protect rotom from arena trap and I don't think dugtrio can do anything to harm it so I could revenge it at least.

I haven't thought much about how well the team would work in practice though. I feel like it might be beneficial to replace scizor/mamoswine with a different steel/ground type. Megagross seems like it'd be able to take advantage of psychic terrain well enough

>>29958814
-Ate abilities got lowered to a 20% boost.

>>29958820
>I don't think dugtrio can do anything to harm it
Stone Edge OHKOs

>>29958820
Metagross cant bullet punch in terrain.

M-Metagross is can work somewhat

>>29958859
>Duggy now learns Stone Miss
Nice

>>29953851
>doubles
>Topapex''s Baneful Bunker + Toxic Heal Gliscor holding leftovers

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>>29958902
Wait now I'm checking and it can learn it this gen too. Why the fuck do I always see Dugs using Rock Slide?

>>29953851
In singles Toxapex will be good, but it's weaknesses are very easy to deal with.

I'm more curious if Stall can actually be viable in doubles with this.

>>29958859
252 Atk Dugtrio Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 40+ Def Rotom-H: 132-156 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

?

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>Magearna and Marshadow doubles
>Magearna uses Shift Gear while Marshadow is busy beating the shit out of anything that steps up
>Magearna uses Heart Swap to put 3 shift gears on Marshadow

>>29958937
flinch chance + double hits + better accuracy.

>>29958937
if it runs rock slide, it most likely has focus sash Choice Band/Scarf runs stone edge

>>29958914
>baneful
>>>/tv/

Why is everyone saying lele will be suspected

>>29954381
They absorb a lady's menstrual blood

>>29958945
I realise I didn't account for the 20+ attack buff in SM but even after raising Dugtrio's attack to 100 it can't score the OHKO even under choice band

>>29953851
Does any site have the abilities and moveset? I've only been able to find types and stats

>>29959015
It hits hard as fuck doesn't care about priority and has plenty of good viable sets.

>>29959075
https://paste. ee/r/zYMUr

>>29959015
>252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 372-438 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

No real switch ins either, besides spdef Jirachi and AV Metagross with some luck.

>>29959162
You probably just replaced the text, but is there actually a damage calculator out there already with the new Pokemon data?

>>29959203
http://jake-white.github.io/VGC-Damage-Calculator/

Should I ask my moon buying friend to catch me a Jolly or a Timid version of the roach UB?

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Mimikyu is strong! STRONG!

No joke, Mimikyu essentially gets a free turn to set up because of its ability. It has access to Swords Dance, Z!Splash, Bulk Up, Light Screen, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, Pain Split, Thunder Wave, Leech Life and other support options.

Life Orb + Swords Dance Mimikyu can knock out nearly the entire OU meta in one or two turns using Shadow Claw, Shadow Sneak and Play Rough. Things that would check Mimikyu like Scizor actually die before they can hurt Mimikyu, Skarmory can at best phaze Mimikyu out after taking a hit but failing to break its disguise as it risks getting 2HKO'd with or without stealth rocks. Ferrothorn fares no better, neither does Toxipex.

Mimikyu's base 96 speed lets it outrun Tapu Lele provided they have the same investment into speed. Mimikyu has a 93% of OHKOing Lele after Rocks with a Shadow Claw even before S.Dancing.

>>29954054
>Smeargle used Sand Attack

>>29959313
>shitposter used 9gag meme

>>29955533
Luke had Talonflame

>>29953851
All I hope is that Marshadow doesn't get quickbanned, it seems amazing to use and a much more fun way to punish people who set-up too much than Unaware.

Can flying types/levitators still be hit by priority from grounded opponents under psychic terrain?

>>29954275
>Smogon confirmed they work like any other trapping moves.
Did anyone check if the trap+baton pass nerf was removed, at least for those moves in particular?

>>29959476
I'm pretty sure

>>29959306
How will it deal with:

Quaqsire or Clefable

>>29957902
It's a slower but bulkier Archeops. Should be decent as long as you can recover its HP often enough.

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I never see any discussion about these two because everyone knows they'll immediately be banned to ubers, but what are you guy's thoughts on them?

>>29953851
>Most look to be shitmons with the exception of an obvious few.
>A lotta sketchy nerfs.
cant say im excited desu.

>>29959728
Quagsire: wood hammer
Clefable: no idea
Why doesn't anyone see pyukumuku as a viable unaware user? Not having attacks sucks but it can toxic stall you out

>>29959015
Things that can switch into Lele:

-Random Assault Vest steel with enough defense to stomach Terrain boosted psyshock and enough Spdef. defense to survive STAB life orb Moonblast and enough Attack to 2HKO lele, while not being trap bait for Dugtrio.

-A-Muk
-Jirachi
-Aegislash
-Cresselia

Note that lele can also run U-turn, so absolutely nothing is safe.

>>29959779
They'll be OU at best

>>29959787
T. shitflame fag mad he can't brave bird his way up the ladder

>>29959779
Moongeist Beam is a great move. It bypasses abilities so it can take a on shit like Lugia easily. Its main problem is the 4x weakness to two types that will leave it a sitting duck if hazards are up.

No idea about Solgaleo, I've only played Moon.

>>29959814
If you run Wood Hammer, your moveset is:
Swords dance + No taunt + No Priority. If you run priority, you are walled by Skarm.

Typical Skarm + Quag can deal with this. Because you don't have coverage for both.

And regarding Pyku, Taunt is how every one deals with stall, even then 50/130/130 is frailer than Deoxys-d, not quite stall level bulk.

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Calling it now: Bewear's gonna be AG-tier.

>>29959960
>+1

try harder, fug is still supreme

>>29953851
>Toxic
>Recover
>Venoshock + Merciless ability
>insane DEF and SpD
is this the best mon this gen?
its also cute and based on real things unlike Ultradigimon

>>29959960
>Rayquaza used Fire Blast
>Rayquaza used Draco Meteor

Fuck off with your Skype circlejerk, you underaged cunt.

>>29959870
>OU at best

Nice bait.

>>29959867
>scizor

>>29960073
>Thinking 70/80 spdef bulk can tank with rocks
>U-turn to magnezone

>>29959960
I fucking wish that were the case, but it's no more as useful as Pangoro. Of course Pangoro gets Bullet Punch this Gen along with the Dark type version of Stored Power, so maybe the two can cooperate.

>>29960026
>based on real things unlike Ultradigimon
Is this b8? All the UB have very clear inspirations except for guzzlord.

>>29960118
It cant touch m-scizor at all

>>29960181
what is choice specs

>>29960118
Lele doesn't get U-turn.

>>29960181
Technically neither can a ton of other psychic types or fairy types. However they all use Hidden Power Fire
Which makes me think that Heatran is pretty good vs it.

>>29960139
It's not Charizard so it sucks.

is there any hooe for some good memes with dodrio or tapu koko and z-mirror move? you can copy what the opponent did (hopefully it wasn't u-turn) and get a free swords dance too

>>29960304
Well fug, maybe there is god after all. but remember you have to run Iron Head, since Bullet doesn't work. Which severely limits Scizors's options. And while Psyshock can 3HKO in psychic terrain, psychic is a clean 2HKO in terrain.

>>29960312
Focus Blast exists

>>29960398
Time for Double Dance Mega Scizor to become the new meta.

So Bewear is guaranteed for UU right?

>>29954899
>with an added bonus
isn't that how eject button works anyways? the only added bonus is that it's permanent and he gets to hold a good item.

>>29955156
>New abilities ... like Regenerator
>9001
get the fuck out of here

>>29955570
Tsareena gets Acupressure?

That thing with corrosion looks good 'cause it'll be able to poison Heatrans. The problem is Heatrans will start to run Earth Power :/

>>29957037
>Golem hard walled by alarm
>With SE Stab Eletric moves

>>29960515
Does eject stop u-turn? I don't play battle spot, so don't know.

>>29960580
I'm 99% sure that's how it works.

>>29960574
Yes, it does as an egg move.

>>29957037
>>Muk
>A straight buff to Muk. Same stats, better type, and equally meh abilities. However it's still just a slightly buffed Muk... and Muk is PU. Don't get your hopes up

>bulkier than jirachi sp defensively
>stab pursuit
>stab knock off
>stab gunk shot
>anti-psychic + fairy + ghost + focus blast spam

>>29959779
These guys are Kyurem tier, at least the lion anyway. First mascot duo to not go to ubers.

This is how bad the power creep has become.

>>29960451
I don't know, 120/80/60 is some respectable physical bulk especially with Fluffy, and it also gets Pain Split to recover when low on HP as well as Bulk Up and SD so it might make it into OU especially now that the fucking bird is dead. Just be careful with fire moves.

What ability does Alolan Dugtrio get? Is it really enough to send it to OU with the +20 atk?

>>29960760
Alolan duggy won't see OU since it has a Gooey clone instead of Arena trap

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Probably RU
CroMuk will be fun now that he doesn't have to rely on Poison Jab

>>29960451
I can see it.

AV or SD look like the most promising sets for it. BU is redundant, and it's recovery options just aren't good enough for slow stat ups.

>>29960760
+20 atk applies to Regular Duggy also which is why he's gonna be good. Not sure if Regular duggy also gets the boosted defenses.

A-Duggy is garbage

>>29960724
nice le bait

>>29960804
still I don't like those defenses even at +3

I see this possibly work in OU:

Tapu-Lele Counter
Shed Shell
Careful
Max HP max Spdef
-Gunk Shot
-Knock off
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

>>29954920
>No, it's a worse Azumarill and a complete sitting duck against everything that resists Water
It does good damage even to most things that resist Water. The only Pokemon with .25 Water resistance is also weak to Bug. Its problem are some of the Pokemon with Water immunity, namely Mantine who hard counters it and just got a great buff in HP and Roost.

version legends still have too many set options with their movepools and bases to be ou.
they may turn out to be worse than the other box legends since gamefreak nerfed everything this gen to avoid having more Pdons, Mega Fugs, and Xerneases, but if they get suspected in OU they'll be overcentralizing and will get banned. they're not kyurem-B levels of bad

>>29959814
>Not having attacks sucks but
There is no but. A Pokemon with no attacks is almost totally unviable even when it has Shadow Tag. Pyukumuku is worse than that.

>>29960928
Don't forget Water Absorb Jellicent

>>29953851
What site is this?

>>29960579
It actually is. I ran the calcs.

252+ Atk Electric/Rock Golem Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 146-174 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Physical Skarm can stall it to death with Rocky Helmet. So using it with Magnet Pull as a trapper won't work. Using it with Galvanize means it can't trap so it's pointless.

>>29960804
might be good for vgc shenanigans

>>29960760
Dugtrio-A is shitty budget Exca, without Arena Trap it won't come anywhere near OU

Regular Dug on the other hand is easy OU and will probably be suspected.

>>29960666
I'm not saying Muk-A will be PU like Muk, it IS a buff after all. But it's not such a huge buff that it's suddenly going to see use in OU, barring some new tech or a crazy core no one's thought of.

>>29954597
>Blaziken free from ubers
Pls god no. Greninja and SmogonSword will be bad enough.

>>29957037
>Alolaslash is bad

Fug.

I do expect Alolachu to see some use in lower tiers. It'll be great when paired with Koko or some other good ET setup, since it'll move at the speed of fucking sound. I hope it's UU somehow.

>>29954597
this is so fucking true, it hurts

>>29954597
Do we even know how you get the starter's HAs?

>>29961244
It's a shame, because if this forme existed two generations ago it would actually be a pretty decent sweeper in hail. But as of right now it's worse than the base form Sandslash, mostly because weather is unreliable, it's slow when unboosted, and Ice type is the worst type in the game even when paired with Steel.

It may see use in monotype though.

>>29960578
>start
And if any Pokemon is going to be viable for its ability to completely shit on Heatran it's Araquanid, who doesn't care about any of Heatran's common moves at all (which DO include Earth Power so don't even think about trying to Salazzle it) and will actually just murder it instead of poisoning if it stays in.

>>29961244
>koko in lower tiers

>>29961143
Why the fuck would it run weak garbage like Thunderpunch? READ ITS ABILITY. Skarmory walls many OU-viable Pokemon regardless so it was a silly objection to begin with, and it absolutely cannot wall Alolan Golem under any circumstances.

>>29961382
lele-chan invalidates it

>>29961143

I wonder when they'll make volt tackle a move that electric types actually get. It sucks they have to use the weak wild charge to do anything.

>>29961143
Magnezone does the same thing but better. Golem-A doesn't offer anything to a team worth justifying a slot over.

>>29961497
How? It has no priority and they both have different sets.

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How's my VGC/doubles core, lads?

Porygon-Z @ Normalium
EV spread undecided. Bulky enough to not be KOd by most things.
Adaptability
- Thunder
- Conversion
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam/Blizzard

A-Ninetales @ Focus Sash
252spe / 252SpA / 4HP
Snow Warning
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Heat Wave
- Icy Wind/Roar/Will o Wisp/???

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
252Def / 252HP / 4SpD
Drizzle
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Scald/Tailwind
- U-Turn/Tailwind

Gameplan is to Z-convert into Electric turn 1 while either Ninetales sets up Aurora Veil or a Follow Me user takes the hits. Then switch out to Pelipper and start firing off 100% accurate Adaptability boosted Thunders.
I'm considering carrying a strong cleanup sweeper in the back in case Porygon can't do it all alone, Golisopod is a strong posibility due to rain boosted Aqua Jets and priority in general, as well as something like a scarfed Hydreigon.
I've never played doubles before you can probably tell.

>Edit: Water Bubble also doubles the power of Water-type attacks.
Dear fuck. Do water moves still get STAB, making it different from Adaptability?
>Araquanid with Rain Dance support

>>29961143
>Thunder Punch
Try a 130 BP+STAB Electric type Return.

>>29961143
>Thunder Punch
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Alolan Golem with Return OR Double-Edge will both kill max Def+ max HP Skarmory in 1 hit with a Life Orb. The only thing saving a Skarm from this Pokemon is Sturdy, no amount of investment will improve its ability to survive.

What tier do you guys think Ash-Greninja will be in?

Pros:
- 145 Atk, 153 Sp. Atk, 132 Speed
- Access to a wide variety of moves including Scald/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse for Special and Waterfall/U-turn/Cut for Physical
- Doesn't need a Mega Stone

Cons:
- Needs to score a KO as regular Greninja in order to transform
- No Protean
- Essentially no ability after transforming
- 72/67/71 defences are still poor
- Currently no way to get it Gunk Shot and Low Kick

>>29961716
>>29961677
It it's running Galvanize it can't trap Skarmory. And if it can't trap Skarmory then there's no point in calcing because Skarmory will just switch out. Furthermore, if it can't trap steels it's not even worth using at all. It's slow, frail, and has a poor type. I already addressed this.

>>29961716
>>29961677
Skarm just switches out.

>>29961878
it can be good, but you need to build your entire team around it in order for it to work

>>29961878
Same tier as Greninja since separate abilities aren't tiered separately.

WHO'S READY FOR THE TAPU LELE + PHEROMOSA EXPERIENCE

>>29961878
fun tier because blasting things with modest 153 spatk 150 bp + life orb priority that breaks subs/sash/sturdy is fun

>>29961953
The rise of Waifu Offense

>>29961952
How much use then?

>>29962050
Well knowing Smogon they will ban Greninja to Ubers because it shits on offense way too hard. On top of that one of its biggest offensive checks got nerfed while Greninja itself got buffed so yeah.
So yeah it will be used a lot while available.

>>29958029
Post sets, I saw you in that Battle Tree thread a while ago and wanted to take notes

>>29962103
The reason Greninja got booted to Ubers was because it could run a move to cover each of its possible counters, along with having STAB on every move. Battle Bond Greninja is technically a new form, and doesn't have any of the properties that make regular Greninja broken. The priority nerf is a fair argument.

who else /parting shot silvally/ here?

>>29962159
That's cool and all but Torrent Greninja is also banned despite being weaker than Protean.

>>29962240
Battle Bond is the only Greninja currently available in SM. If this gen is anything like the last one, there will be 2 ladders for pre-bank and post.

What I don't like is the Tapus being the only viable terrain setters, with Lele's being in such high demand. It means she'll be ridiculously overused because there's no other option. They need to diversify the pool of users of these abilities like they did with weather setters.

>>29961609
Doesn't Aurora Veil only work in Hail?

>>29962240
>>29961952

>>29962279
lele-chan is a great pokemon even without her terrain

every weather setter outside tyranitar and maybe hippowdon are absolute dogshit and only see use because of their weather

>>29962314
A-Ninetales @ Focus Sash
252spe / 252SpA / 4HP
Snow Warning

Well gee, I wonder.

>>29959728
Mimikyu could carry wood hammer so unless you know what moves it has, Quagsire isn't safe. Most Clefable run magic guard instead of Unaware.
Magic Guard Clefable is still 2HKO'd by Play Rough so its not a counter.

>>29962346
Yes, I know A-Ninetales sets Hail, but doesn't Aurora Veil get negated when Hail stops (like when you switch Pelipper in?)

>>29962459
Guy who posted the sets here. I don't know, I haven't tested it.
The move description says "This can be used only in a hailstorm.", which to me reads that it'll stay.
If someone can prove the opposite, please do.

Bewear would be ou if its special bulk was just a little better, or if its ability was fur coat and worked for non contact physical moves.
It can take some ridiculous hits though, like band azumarill play rough.

Also it somehow lacks drain punch. Presumably a tutor move in the remakes/third game.
I think it could still work well, it just doesn't have good recovery.

Which is better? Assault vest or bulk Up and leftovers?

>>29962688
assault vest, covering up its crippling weakness to special attacks is more important than anything else

>>29962733
Is it worth running rest for recovery? Its only ways of getting back health are unfortunately rest and pain split which is useless with that fat hp stat.

It gets recover.

>>29962688
Well, Conkeldurr is also really weak on the special side and yet it was amazing in gen V. I hope the bear can get Drain Punch eventually.

>>29957342
I care anon :3

>>29962688
Bewear @ Leftovers
252HP and Defense
Fluffy
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Attack
Step 1, remove all ghosts and/or special attackers
Step 2, become the balk. Embrace the balk.

A shame he doesn't get Focus Punch. It can set up big substitutes.

>>29957342
>This is my last reply.

no.. no don't do it anon

File: laughingrils.jpg (77KB, 600x536px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 600x536px

>>29957342
>I /could/ explain my points and have a discussion, but instead I'm going to condescend and pretend I know more than everyone else
>Meanwhile I will display no knowledge of anything except some Pokemon I read off the UU list on smogon.com
>This is my last reply.

sure it is anon

>>29953956
>65 BP *2 (if target is poisoned) *1.5 (crit) *1.5 (STAB)
>292.5 BP, 100% accuracy
oh shit