VGC17 general discussion thread

Anyone know what will be the most common threats in this years meta? Tapus and Chomp aside.

>regionals start two weeks after launch
>two weeks
Hacker trap?

>>29928544
Tapus and Chomp. Literally every team will run at least one Tapu, many will run two (but generally only bring one into battle)

Metagross is an underrated sleeper threat with good anti-tapu matchups and it benefits from rain. Salamence is still good even with Tapu spam. Porygon2 and Slowbro are the best TR setters in the meta and TR will be quite good. If HAs are released Incineroar will be very good.

As far as the Tapu go, Koko/Lele are overrated and Bulu/Fini are underrated. What people fail to understand is that in weather wars being slower is actually good sometimes because the slower weather stays on the field. So in a lead matchup Grassy > Misty > Psychic > Electric in terms of what sticks.

Xurkitree+Bulu is the best offensive core I've seen suggested so far. Garchomp has to run poison jab or non Jolly nature and fire blast for Bulu, standard chomp does absolutely fucking nothing to Bulu and Bulu will OHKO non-defensively invested sets with wood hammer in grassy terrain. With some defensive investment Xurkitree doesn't even die to chomp EQ and with scarf and a few speed EVs outspeeds max speed Koko.

>>29928548
tcpi has never really cared about hackers who aren't doing obviously illegal shit. If it passes the hack check it's legal as far as they're concerned.

>>29928484
>nobody ever mentions dhelmise

3 STAB, good matchup on Tapus, very high attack, good TR speed tier. Solid pokemon. Cloud Nine Drampa is also a good way for TR teams to deal with weather.

>>29928679
That's when you combine Lele with TR to protect the slower TR setter (Oranguru) or you can go for Bruxish with the speed, switch out Lele and switch it back in later when you need to defend from priority. It's simple.

>>29928679
And here I thought I was gonna be somewhat unique with my bulu/xurkitree/metagross rain team. At least I know it's got potential now.

Does anyone here wants to battle?

>>29929420
Or just leave Lele in the backline completely and when you predict a fake out on your TR setter, switch it in and block it.

Switching is usually avoided in doubles because it's too passive but a switch that effectively blocks a move like that incurs zero negative momentum. Only issue is Lele is a bit too fast to be good in TR and TR setters are often a bit passive themselves (exception being PG2).

>>29928484
Muk and Marowak have some serious potential, don't underestimate these niggas

How might Entrainment/Wide Guard Araquanid + Golisopod fare on rain teams?

>>29930052
Eh, it sounds good on paper, but you only get four mons and you're just wasting a slot with araquanid. Pelliper sets rain and gets wide guard, and you might as well just run another attacker than trying to power up golisopod. He also shares golisopod's type so it doesn't really bring anything new to the table.

Smeargle still seems somewhat viable even without Dark Void.
>Instruct
>Fake Out
>that Poison Spiky Shield move that Toxapex learns
>Follow Me

Still has some decent tools and access to the ever so annoying Moody.

>>29929966
Muk is kind of garbage mostly because there aren't that many good abilities to pass to him, but he does have one of two STAB knock offs in the meta. If there were huge power users in the meta he'd be pretty good. Marowak A is actually very good though since there aren't many lightningrod users in the meta, and he resists Xurkitree's best coverage options.

Because Marowak and Metagross are good, Weavile will also be an option worth considering, FO+STAB Knock Off is always nice to have when there are spooky ghosts or psychic types around. Unfortunately it's kind of hindered by the fairyspam and can't hit Lele SE with knock off due to its dual typing.

>>29930052
Good in theory but in practice, most of the pokemon who want water bubble are also water types so you'll be running a bit water heavy in a meta where Koko/Xurk will be major threats and PG2 can also carry Discharge.

>>29930614
Yeah, it'll still be viable, just not nearly as dominant, and thank god for that.

I kinda want to run Scizor in this. Anything I need to watch for aside from anti-priority stuff? Chances are I'll be running Fini with it.

>>29930614
It's still usable, but only if you absolutely need some unique combination of support moves. Clefairy / Clefable are so much better at support + redirection that you should definitely try them first.

>>29930720
You might want to bring rain with it, since fini alone isn't enough to handle fire types if they have sun support. Or you could bring a rock/ground type to smack them regardless of weather.

>>29930720
Fini is the right choice for the swagger support. Pelliper is good for setting rain. Might want to carry a non-prio steel move for Lele. TR support could also be useful.

So is spotlight just a follow me clone?

>>29931176
Spotlight is really meant for battle royales, it doesn't do much in doubles. If you spotlight your ally, both opponents attack into them. If you spotlight an opponent, your ally attacks them but your other opponent is unaffected. You can't spotlight yourself.

>>29930641
You're underestimate how bulky Muk is and just how little the Tapus want to take a Gunk Shot, and you can meme the fuck out of teams not packing Smart Strike Katana with Minimise

>>29931282
Ah shit. Well there goes shiinotic as my redirector then. Guess i'm back to clefairy.

>>29931691
You could use Spotlight on your own Toxapex in Doubles so both opponents hit Baneful Bunker.

>>29928484
You forgot to mention that Megas are banned.
So no Mega Alakazam, Gengar, Kangaskhan, Slowbro, Scizor, Sableye, Sharpedo, Absol, Glacie, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, or Lucario, despite being in the Regional Dex.

>>29931779
Yeah, that could be interesting. I might try that out if I make a pure rain team.

Porygon Z should be strong in this year's format.

>>29932014
literally why

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>third version game / remakes come out
>yfw genies allowed again

You know it will happen eventually

Oh boy who's ready for Tapus of Healthy Metagame: The Movie: The Experience

>>29932057
Z-Conversion is a +1 to every stat.
No Megas or extremely OP Pokemon in the format to wreck it.

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question: which z move are you planning to use on your team?

>>29928484
Definitely going to be more creative with most VGC staples not usable for this gen, hopefully it'll be just as good as 2014.

The DV nerf for smeargle and not hitmontop are gonna leave a spot wide open for support, I'm seeing Klefki taking up that mantle with crafty shield/Reflect and Lightscreen support.

>>29932346
Pheremosa

Golisopod.
With only 4 mons, and 2 of them on-field at a time, the ability doesn't fucking matter anymore.

Toxapex, because Balefunker Bunker.
Terrain Wars.
Comfey DKs everything and absorbs health left and right.

>>29932652
>DV nerf
Explain. The picture is hard to scan so I can't tell if Smearg is in the dex or not.

Do you guys think terrain will see good usage this season?

>Tournies two weeks after launch
Glad to see they want to kill support so fast

>>29933152
>Explain
DV now has 50% Accuracy, what is there to explain?

>>29933165
didn't know
has someone compiled all the changes?

>>29928679
Stop exaggerating the Tapus.

Fini and Bulu are fucking trash ass garbage.

Koko is barely mediocre, easily countered, shit movepool, weak SpA.

Tapu Lele is a God-pokemon that will be banned to uber in 2 days.

There is only 1 fucking good Tapu. The ultra beasts are much better.

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>>29928484
Are we sure this is the final dex? Is Swablu not in?

>>29933207
t. sub 1200 shitter

>>29933165
and it's only usable by darkrai apparently

>>29929576
>Switching is usually avoided in doubles because it's too passive
..ever watch VGC?

the guy whose entire team strategy revolved around constantly switching won worlds last year scrub.

>>29933207
We may be exaggerating a bit, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>29933298
does anybody? game is only in the hands of some pirates

>>29933248
I'm 1200 but you're the guy who thinks Xurkitree and Bulu is "the best offensive core ever" when A-Muk and A-Marowak don't give a single shit about either one of them, and they'll be some of the cookie cutter anti-legendary pokemon of vgc.

Millions of basic openings don't give a single shit about Xurkitree + Bulu.
You're also overestimating the usefulness of Grassy Terrain, which doesn't do shit. Wow, Bulu wins the Terrain wars by being slower. That's really fucking cool dude, too bad about the fact that it fucking dies before it gets to use moves. Also doesn't get fairy STAB besides dazzling gleam (lmfao).

A-Marowak by itself invalidates everything you just said. So does Togedemaru, who will become popular when people realize how good it is.

>>29933438
>Grassy Terrain doesn't do shit
It literally and objectively does more than any other terrain

>>29933507
K how you going to use it champ? Specific examples.

>>29933438
I do agree with you regarding the Xurkitree and Bulu stuff though. It's decent but that's about it.

>Muk and A-Marowak don't give a single shit about either one of them
Things have weaknesses, more at eleven.

>So does Togedemaru, who will become popular when people realize how good it is.
Oh, it's you again. No wonder you are such a shitter.

>>29928679
Just use alolan Marowak to beat Bulu and wires lmao

>>29933530
On a bulky/stall team for added recovery? With electric mons to negate EQ weakness? To make grass a not so shitty offensive type? I'm not gonna spoon feed examples just because you can't be bothered to think about it for a second. But hey, it doesn't make your pokemon a super fast sweeper so it must be shit right?

>>29933537
>Things have weaknesses, more at eleven.
When your weaknesses are going to be one of the top 5 most popular pokemon in the entire meta then yeah it's more than "oh my pokemon has weaknesses xD"
When your entire "offensive core" is invalidated by just one of them, then yeah it's more than just "oh my pokemon has weaknesses xD lol nobody is perfect ;)"

>Oh, it's you again. No wonder you are such a shitter.
Togedemaru can do Raichu's job better than he could last year when he was on half of the top 10 finalists at Worlds.

>>29933207
Lele learns like 0 moves and is hard countered by Marowak and AV krookodile

>>29933598
>A-Muk and A-Marowak
>Top 5 of the meta
I hope you are referring to Garchomp here m8.

>>29933207
>tapu lele banned to uber in 2 days.

this is vgc not smogon, move along kiddo

>>29933587
>>29933587
>On a bulky/stall team for added recovery?
Have fun with that in a meta dominated by mons that have 181 in Atk and 173 SpA.

>With electric mons to negate EQ weakness?

There are 2 relevant Electric mons and 1 of them enjoys electric terrain more, and can't do anything without it.

> To make grass a not so shitty offensive type?
Putting Grassy Terrain down isn't going to stop Grass moves from being resisted by 7 different types. There also isn't a single relevant attacking Grass pokemon, or any relevant Grass pokemon at all for that matter. M-Venusaur and Mow-Rotom are banned, so you have no excuse to run Grassy Terrain. It is fucking useless.

> I'm not gonna spoon feed examples
Yeah because you have none. I have thought about it for a second, which is more than I can say for you.

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>>29933635
Do you want to rethink that? They do the same damage to each other and that's after you specifically make Krookodile an Epic Lele Counter.

>>29933701
>Have fun with that in a meta dominated by mons that have 181 in Atk and 173 SpA
And whats better than a mon with 173 SpA? A mon with 173 SpA and no weakness outside of Mudsdale and a Sandcastle.

Xurkitree does not need the electric terrain boost, it's going to nuke things either way. What it does appreciate is the defensive support due to iffy bulk.

And of course grass isn't going to be great, but a 50% boost helps it get over some of those resistances.

But no, grassy terrain is useless. So what other terrain should we use? Electric terrain? You get a boost to electric moves when none of the major threats need it and sleep immunity in a meta without dark void. Misty terrain? Halved dragon moves isn't all that game changing and your opponent gets the same status immunity. Psychic Terrain is admittedly pretty good, but immunity to priority can and should be worked around since there's so many things that fucked it over this gen.

I'm not trying to say grassy terrain is the best move in the game, but it's far from useless.

Scarf Politoed + Tapu Koko combo could be interesting with rain and Electric Terrain going up simultaneously for boosted Thunders. not sure if there is a good counter in the dex currently haven't gotten too deep into it

>>29934266
Alakazam outspeeds and 2HKOs while Xurkitree only 2HKOs back.

Trevenant walls it entirely.

A-Muk nearly OHKOs with Gunk Shot and is not bothered by anything it does.

Parasect walls it and redirects all of its moves with Rage Powder. It has to carry HP Fire to do anything to it and if it has HP Fire then it is walled by other pokemon.

I could go on but it's really boring. Xurkitree is alright but it's not the god pokemon you're thinking it is and it certainly doesn't justify bringing an absolute shitmon like Tapu Bulu to "set up" for it.

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so /vp/, which z move are you planning to use on your vgc team?

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>fucking loved this thing the moment I saw it
>still thinking on how it would function

It depends on what you let it switch into to boost. In doubles, it would likely need a Comfey with Triage to keep it from being absolutely destroyed. This thing also gets Dazzling Gleam and Energy Ball, so it's got excellent coverage except against something like Reshiram. It'd frankly be all about keeping it alive to sweep for it to function in Doubles, and I'm not sure it can last with a Life Orb on it against powerhouse after powerhouse its gonna be up against. Then there's >>29934682 that list. You really have to watch the fuck out.

>>29934682
This is doubles. Alakazam may be fast and strong too, but the "absolute shitmon" Bulu ohkos it with horn leech, even with no ATK investment, negative nature, and 0 ATK IV. Oh, and it's immune to rage powder. Bulu hits like a truck.

And I'm not gonna argue that Xukitree has some hard counters, but that's what the other 4 mons and team preview are for.

>>29934847
That list assumes Scarf Xurkitree, which is its only viable item (it was supposed to be Scarf Alakazam my bad)

If you assume Life Orb, the list increases exponentially. The number of things that can outspeed it and kill it or seriously damage it is big. Garchomp is the most important example. On that note, I think ScarfChomp is coming back.

>>29934990
That's also a good point. I had forgotten Garchomp in the listing until just after I posted, but yes, Garchomp could mess it up really bad.

>>29934968
>weedle used poison sting!

there goes Bulu.

We'll just have to see how this plays out. No point in arguing about it now. You can have your shit team with shitmons on it like Bulu while everyone else runs goodmons like Lele and Pheromosa.

>>29934847
the thing is, scarf on an electric type is pretty bad because you can't just mindlessly spam your stab without being hard countered. Also, 173 SpAtk without high BP moves or strong spreads isn't really that impressive.
>>29934749
I guess I'll try to use it as a pseudo-gem ala genV or try out something hilarious like z-splash Gyarados.

I'm putting my bet on sand doing well. Then I'm goin to get wrecked and restart from scratch in a month.

>>29935048
>There's no point in arguing it now
>It's still a shitmon btw :^)
What a passive aggressive little bitch you are.

>>29935048
>shitmon used shitmove
Well we've devolved into memes now

>No point in arguing about it now
At least we can agree on something then

>>29934749
Z-Draco Meteor with Mence
Z-Steel with Metagross to avoid getting buttfucked by Knock Off and to kill Tapus hard.

Nothing else looks decent desu

>>29935528
prepare for a lot of people switching in Fini for Salamence and a "protect" to absolutely minimise the damage. Since there are so many Fairies this year Salamence will have a hard time.

>>29933256
That was because of primal weather wars, do YOU actually watch VGC or just jumped in the bandwagon last Worlds?

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>>29928484
People say Weather Wars is going to be big, but I don't know. What weathers and terrain combinations are good?

Sandstorm seems bad, Hail seems bad, Sunny Day seems bad due to lack of Chlorophyll sweepers, Rain seems bad due to lack of Kingdra and other Swift Swim options.... What's left? There is no way to really abuse the weather condition. Feel free to prove me wrong or point out something I'm not seeing. I'm asking a real question because I don't know what to do with the weather once I set it up.

>>29933598
Raichu was good last year solely because of the primals, support Pokémon were far more important because the primals had enough offensive pressure to win games the main goal was to support them and let them win for you.

Are you limited to a certain number of Tapus or UBs on your team? If not, those fuckers are more OP than megas ever were.

>>29935705
Pack a fairy killer alongside him or another Tapu to remove Misty. Problem solved.

Mence brings way too much sheer utility to not used, same as Garchomp. Tapus or not people will still use them because they are that good.

>>29929342
The problem is that you won't ever get TR up because this meta will be so offensively based. There are no TR setters and the ones that do exist simply die to Pheromosa or whatever.

>>29935967
>implies UBs are not just glass canons who often go down to unboosted attacks..

>>29935982
>because this meta will be so offensively based
People literally say this every year without fail.

>>29935933
When bank hits, I think weather will be a lot more popular than it was sixth gen. But, I don't think it will reach gen 5 levels without perma weather.

>>29936016
>bank
>Alola dex only

WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT KINGLER WAS IN THIS GAME

HE HAS NEVER BEEN IN A REGIONAL DEX SINCE GEN 2

WHY DOES MY BRO KEEP GETTING SHAFTED SO MUCH?

>>29928484
I'm trying to find a way to use Muk Power of Alchemy (copies dead ally's ability).

What are the options? I can't think of anything good to give him.

>>29928484
what are the prizes for winning these things?

>>29936007
And they've been "L I T E R A L L Y" correct for the past 5 years. Unless you don't think a meta involving primal groudon, primal kyogre,

>>29936135
money/scholarships/travel awards

>>29935933
alola dugtrio has base 110 speed and 110 atk with sand force. It is pretty much an Excadrill variant, and I can see it doing well.
Rain will always be good because water is good, Ice will be bad because Ice is bad, Sun was only good because CharY was amazing.

>>29936209
Adug only has 100 speed. Only reg dugtrio has 110.

>>29936320
isn't regular dugtrio 120 and alola 110?

>>29930641
>Muk is kind of garbage
I feel like there is a unintended joke here.

>Unfortunately it's kind of hindered by the fairyspam and can't hit Lele SE with knock off due to its dual typing.
More like it's hindered by Knock Off being illegal on it, it has to rely on Night Slash.

>>29936351
Can't Weavile use Throat Chop now? It's not Knock Off but it's better than Night Slash.

>>29935967
But they each have two stats jacked up to a legendary-esque extreme, often speed and an offensive stat, both beyond the scope of your average mere mega. When I first saw Phermosa's stats, I mean shit, that thing could sweep a lot of teams without setting up.

Now, I haven't gotten my hands on SM yet and probably won't until a couple weeks after official release, so I guess what I should be doing now is going through the banlist, familiarizing myself completely with all the new mechanics and new "Pokémon"...

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>greninja has the gen 7 pentagon (aka the black cross)
>it's not from the alola dex so it can't be used online

nigga when I'm supposed to use it then?
in gen 6?

>>29936452
>>29936001
Samefag here, meant to quote you, not myself. Der.

>>29936095
>Kingler isn't in the game
What the FUCK? I thought it was bullshit when he didn't get an Alola form but this is just barbaric.

>>29936372
Seems like it is a new egg move for Sneasel yeah, it'll probably be the new go to for it's Dark STAB.

>>29935705
It'll have a hard time but you'll still see plenty of Mence simply because it is still one of the best Intimidators available.

I mean your best Intimidate options at the moment are still Mence, Krookodile, Stoutland, Staraptor, Gyarados, Granbull and Mence does stand out the most from those.

>>29936588
So what's the deal anyway? Until January, does the data for all these absent mons literally just not exist in the software? Will the data for hundreds of species be released as a patch?

>>29936507
When Bank is available, you hacker fuck.

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Hi /vp/ bros, I've been around for some time and am really interested in getting into the VGC with Alola, what all do I have to do? Rating battles? Sign ups? Go to actual VGC tourney?

>>29936744
Register at Play! Pokemon to get a actual ID which lets you attend tournaments, you end up linking it to your Global Link Account where your game is registered.

Go to actual physical VGC tournaments for the highest qualifictaion point payouts and cash if you are really good, there is a event locator on the Play! Pokemon site which shows upcoming official tournaments and etc.

There are occasionally online tournaments which also pay out points but these are fairly small.

>>29936724
It's BB Greninja from the demo, are you blind or just retard?

I feel like my bro Aerodactyl is a shitmon now because no mega and the speedy UBs.

Is it still remotely worth running a Dactyl? I was thinking since he won't outspeed the really fast competition even with full investment and helpful nature, and he can probably outspeed the majority of slowmons in the dex with little or no investment. I was thinking it might be workable to run a bulky offensive build (HP and Atk investment) w/rock slide, brave bird (does he even learn this?), roost, protect...

Even as I type this it's not sounding worth it.

>>29937001
Follow up question if anyone knows: did they reverse the mechanic change from gen VI where held items like razor fang and King's rock no longer could stacked flinch chance with moves like rock slide?

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>>29936724
>bank gets available
>vgc 2107 rules magically change

>>29935933
Rain will always be good.

You've got Hurricane, Thunder who all love their rain support as much as much as any water mon. Swift swim users still exist just not as powerful ones Poliwrath, Golduck, Mantine. Point anyway is Rain has always been versatile there is probably something someone has overlooked. Tapu Koko + Pelipper/Politoed is just popular theorycraft because it requires zero setup.

Sun isn't quite as good this time round without many standout sweepers who can abuse the boosts. Unless you do something like TR Sun then you have Turtonator and A-Marowak...only advantage it has is the slowest setter in Torkoal so it'll always win weather war.

Sand is basically A-Dugtrio, Garchomp, Gastrodon sort of, Stoutland, Palossand, not much choice but not unworkable since it has some pretty powerful mons.

Hail this time round is actually super bulky because of Aurora Veil, has Froslass (do not underestimate this fucker), Ninetales itself is solid, A-Sandslash, Vanilluxe, and Alakazam to some extent (Magic Guard), Jangmo-o (Overcoat + high defenses and offense) and even hell even Pheromosa benefits from it (high s.atk + Blizzard coverage).

>>29936343
Wait yeha your right, my bad

>>29937001
Maybe look at what non-attack moves he learns and see if there's any beneficial Z bonuses for them?
http://pastebin.com/d5Hed1cw

I found a mechanic change but I don't know if it applies to VGC at all.
Aegislash no longer changes forms if it can't carry out the move (confusion, sleep, paralysis).

>>29937909
That's actually pretty big.
Fug, I wish we would just get a huge well formatted list already. Especially if all we get is 2 weeks to prepare.

>>29937909
>>29937993
I want to know if Malamar has any changes.

>>29937001
Aerodactyl is pretty straight forward, it's always been a support in VGC.

Aerodactyl w/Unnerve@Focus Sash/Eject Button
Jolly
Atk 252/Spd 252
-Wide Guard
-Rock Slide
-Protect
-Taunt/Tailwind

Does what it needs to do and does it very well.