People complain about gen 7 being slow, but looking back we've

>>29918551
Gen 2 mons are shit for the most part though.

>>29918551
nigga you could count the amount of good johto mons on one hand

>>29918551
Gen2 just suffered from "just give everything all sub-par stats".

Pokemon in Gen7 just have awful speed.

>>29918551
Now that you mention it I don't remember anything other than Crobat, Espeon and Raikou being fast in gen 2. Everything also had no moves unless it could punch.

Like Gen 2 it has the support of older mons to give it a much more stable lineup, People blasting gen 7 as the worst of all time really should reconsider it, Overall gen 2 has some of the worst pokemon with filler like the babies and unown but it considered one of the best generations of all.

>>29918551
oh look, an Hoennigger is attacking Johto.
What a great news

>>29918598
Scizor
Crobat
M-Heracross
Skarmory
Kingdra
The beasts
Celebi
Politoed
Feraligatr (thanks to its HA)
Tyranitar
M-Ampharos
Porygon 2

All of those pokemon are currently viable in formats like OU and beyond. Even if you take away the megas you are left with decent representation.

Quit your revisionist bullshit.

>>29918551
That's why I'm not worried about using certain Pokemon with low speed. Hoenn also had some slow mons like Whiscash and Chimecho. Still used them on a run I did of Emerald before ORAS came out and did pretty good.

>The only way OP can make Alolashitmons appear good is by comparing them to the shittest shitmons of Gen 2
You aren't helping your case OP.

Alola is more like Hoenn than Johto in any case except that Hoenn is better because it at least it's Pokemon don't have barren movepools.

>>29918712
I've been around since gen 1, Gen 5 being my favorite.

>>29918741
You can beat in-game with a fucking Caterpie. In-game never matters. Why don't you people ever understand that when people are complaining about stats they aren't complaining about in-game usability? Dear god.

>>29918716
to be fair many of them were not particularly good the gen they came out
take things like scizor, politoed and feraligatr, until they got their abilities they were shit tier

>>29918716
I agree with you, though I dunno if the megas should be on there any more than, say, Weavile should.

>>29918744
sure, nice gen III mon picture that you have back there

>people complain about gen 7 having a lot of shitmons so let's compare it to another gen with a lot of shitmons

Everything was contained in gen 2, gen 7 has all the slowmons plus a decent number of the old faster mons in the game. I was excited for vikavolt after I got it evolved but he literally gets chunked before I make a move and I'd have to swap to a different mon next turn.

>>29918772
The same could be said for just about any gen.

Look at Serperior, it took a gen for it to crack OU.

>>29918791
> Even if you take away the megas you are left with decent representation.
which is why I said that.

Though, Heracross saw some niche use because of its Guts shenanigans.

>>29918799
Gen 3 is my least favorite region, But Dusclops is my favorite pokemon, figure that one out

>>29918772
Scizor was great back then too, of course, he is better now.
Feraligatr was starter tier.
and Politoed could use moves like Belly drum, Perish song
your point?

>>29918841
in politoed's case it took 3 gens though and the ONLY thing that saves it is its ability
without it its blatantly inferior to its brother

you talk like people played competitively on gen 2

>>29918762
>implying slowmons can't win
>implying there are no ways to buff your team's speed
>implying there are no ways to nerf your opponent's speed
>implying there is no trick room to turn slowmons into fastmons and vice-versa
>implying there are no priority moves to make speed irrelevant
>implying
>implying
>implying


Seriously, the competitive viability of these monsters remains to be seen and will only come out by means of many battles fought between many trainers. Until then reserve judgment, because slowmons can in fact win while being outsped OR can be made to outspeed the foe

>>29918886
Politoed was OU in gen 2.
It was UU and borderline OU in gens 3 and 4.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but vanilla Politoed was not a shitmon.

>>29918799
Am I missing something? Since when does the mon in the thread image dictate what OP's favorite gen is? Especially when that gen is never mentioned? What mon should OP use without being an apologist or a (insert gen here)fag?

>>29918716
Entei sucks, Feraligator is a joke, Wew Crobat, Megas shouldn't count especially not Amph.

Which leaves 10 mons in this list. Not bad. Still, you sound a little mad with that last line.

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>>29919028
why are you trying to reason with the autistic

>>29918716
Look at that

Most of them are fast

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>>29919039
>lel u r sew mad xDD !!!!111!!

Wew, you almost had to admit you were wrong. Thank god an insignificant line triggered you so hard you could completely deflect.

>>29919039
>dissing crobat
its always been a good utility mon

>>29919043
Because he is the autistic one

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This thread needs some Hope

>>29919066
>Scizor
>Heracross
>Skarmory
>Kingdra
>Politoed
>Tyranitar
>Ampharos

>"fast"

>>29919204
kingdra was actually fast by gen II standards
man that gen was slow

>>29919234
Yeah, that's fair enough. The thing is, with all the gen I pokes hanging around the initial playthrough in gen II and its remakes, there were plenty of Kantomons available to outspeed a Kingdra.

>>29918880
>Starter Tier

>>29918897
GSBot existed.

>>29919353
Like Blastoise, Venusaur....

>Gen 2 was slow
>best mon in Gen 2 was a slow, fat piece of shit

You might be onto something op

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>>29918712
>Johtards seeing the Hoennfag boogeyman everywhere
every time

>>29918791
They're just form changes either way

It's like saying Azumarill doesnt count because it's ability came in Gen 3

>>29919039
How does he sound mad?

>>29919580
It is much more like a new evolution that reverts after battle. The different appearance is just part of it. The boosted stats and sometimes different typing makes it practically a new Pokemon. Also, that Azumarill bit would apply to literally every single Pokemon.

>>29919402
Kek dude, you got me curious to see if the Internet archives had old pages from that site, and guess what? The site itself is STILL UP.

>>29918716
all of those pokemon were shit when they came out
all the gen 7 mons are shit with maybe 5 exceptions max

what's the problem

>>29919649
But we've had many forms that come with stat changes before and after Megas were made. Also GF doesnt treat them as different I think

>>29919953
It's really a matter of opinion because GF and Nintendo are never explicit on this point. However, in a final attempt to help you see it from my point of view, wouldn't you say it's unusual for the VGC to ban mega forms of otherwise legal Pokemon, but no other forme changes are banned in this way (Zen mode Darmanitan as a random, stupid example)?

>>29918772
>>29919722
This. Quit YOUR revisionist history. The worry is gen 7 pokemon in gen 7.

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I CANNOT SURVIVE AT LOW SPEEDS.

I MUST GO FAST.
IF I AM NOT FAST THEN I AM NOTHING.

>>29920082
Not really, the boost that Mega Evolution gives is much larger than most other forms, and since it centres on an item, it's as easy as just taking away the item to make them achieve the boost.

I see what you mean though

>>29918716
A lot of those pokemon were bad in gen 2.

I don't really caren if gen 7 pokemon become good in 15 years.

>>29920450
KEK

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>>29920450

Yeah but most Gen 2 mons are slow because they are masters of stall. Gen 2 meta was a stallfest the likes of which Smogon can only wet-dream of. Unlike Gen 7, in which all new Pokemon are absolute shit except for the Tapus and the UBs.

>>29918716
Scizor got a good ability later on
Crobat is fast
M-Heracross is a Mega
Skarmory is legit
I've never seen Kingdra used or praised
The beasts are legendaries
Celebi is a legendary
Politoed benefited from Gen V weather wars, then fucked right back to NU
Feraligatr got a good ability later on
Tyranitar is a pseudo
M-Ampharos is a mega
Porygon 2 is OK

Most of the pokemon you listed are either legendaries or were redeemed years later after their debut.

>>29921692
Kingdra is like Politoed. It became a rain god during Gen IV/V because of weather wars, but fell out of useage in Gen VI

People are too quick to judge. Didn't this board think Mega Sableye would be shit?

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>>29920450

>>29918716
>Scizor
Viable because of technician priority and great defensive typing.
>Crobat
Not viable in OU
>M-Heracross
Stall breaker and a mega
>Skarmory
Still OU but barely at this point with shit like Landorus-T running around and Ferrothorn
>Kingdra
Not viable in OU
>The Beasts
Only Raikou is useable. Entei is shit. Suicune fell from grace because powercreep
>Celebi
Not in OU and for good reason. Heatran, Ferrothorn and a myriad of other pokemon buttfuck it
>Politoad
Rain is dead son. Time to tell it go.
>Feraligatr
100% outclassed by M-Gyarados and thats why it is UU and M-Gyarados was banned from UU
>Tyranitar
Nobody cares about its speed because of it's fucking incredible offensive presence, bulk and ability to set up dududu.
>M-Ampharos
Not viable in OU
>Porygon-2
Barely viable in OU anymore but nobody cares about its speed due to it being a stall pokemon.

To be OU to need 2 of 3:
Speed
A way to take hits/immunity
Combo potential/Core potential

M-Ampharos for example sorta has a way to take hits with a neat typing and some tanky stats but lacks the other two so it isn't even considered for OU.

Skarmory is tanky and has lots of combo potential. Celebi has combo potential but is barely below average for the other two. Scizor has tankiness and speed due to priority. etc.

Slow speed is really bad because it only leaves the last two options for you to matter. You can feasibly get away with only 1 of 3 but you better be the very best that no one ever was and even then you are usually niche.

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>>29920450

>>29918716

how the hell do you miss azumarill out of everything, motherufcking azumarill

also houndoom and domphan deserve a mention, they have problems and are not as good as before but are clearly usable mons.

>>29923828
Azumarill was shit in gen 2 and still pretty bad in gen 3

Only in Gen 4 it started becoming good thanks to the Physical/Special split and Aqua Jet and then in Gen 6 it became great thanks to the added Fairy type.

>>29918947
>2 uu >3 uu >4 nu

>>29921622
Lmao, most gen 2 mons were slow because they were shitmons. There were very few good new Pokemon from Johto at the time, the meta was dominated by gen 1 mons.