>UBS are allowed in VGC http://pastebin.com/4ddvU5Ai RIP

We know.

Tapu Koko + Xurkitree = le ebin +1 173 SPA Thunders (Zap Cannon if you're an absolute madman)

>>29878013
Really bad decision. Now almost all the Alola pokemon will be outclassed in VGC

>>29878013
HAHAHAHA

We traded Megas for UBs in VGC. Unfucking believable, GF.

Lele and Phermosa for healthy meta.

The UBs themselves won't be OP, but I don't like how many there are

>>29878272
Legendaries being OP aren't anything new

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>Pokemon World Tournament
>no actual pokemon

>>29878352
Pheromosa and Mega Pinsir for Pheromosa counter (and Tapus) the meta here we go

>>29878433
UBs aren't legendaries

>>29878445
UBs are Pokemon

>>29878053
>trapinch used bulldoze!

>>29878469
>VGC17
>Mega

>>29878495
ya boi gets energy ball

So which one gets the boot in a full team of 6 UBs? I imagine either Buzzwole (type overlap with Pheromosa), Nihilego, or Guzzlord.

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>shockwire spook tree backed-up with Tailwind is allowed

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I tried to tell some of you faggots that the UBs are part of the Alola Dex, but you wouldn't listen.

Could this be Marowak's time to shine?

With his typing and not-garbage physical bulk he can shrug off Pheromosa's STABs and with Lightningrod he can laugh at scarf Xurkitree. He can even fight off any Tapu that's not Fini.

>>29878469

No megas in VGC anon.

>>29878553

Depends on what 02 gets for coverage or what she's paired with.

>>29878553
>with Lightningrod he can laugh at scarf Xurkitree
Xurkitree learns Energy Ball, but that doesn't matter anyway, because
>scarf sets
>in VGC

>>29878589
IIRC, Ice Beam.

>>29878604
I'm more worried about Dark Pulse, but even a resisted E-Ball will hurt coming from Xurk's ridiculous Sp. Atk.

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>>29878469
>Psychic terrain
>Mega Pinsir countering Pheromosa

>>29878013
They are not that good, but they are good enough that every team will need at least 1.

However, it's not like M-Salamence where they have no weaknesses. Each of the allowed legendaries has a downside.

The island guardians have limited movepools and none of them learn play rough. Tapu Bulu doesn't get a fairy STAB.

Nihilego isn't dangerous, 4x weak to ground with shit Def stat (EQ bait).

Buzzwole is slow and has very bad special defense and special attack (also doesn't learn a single physical Bug STAB)

Pheromosa is the most troubling, with U-turn, Brick Break, Ice Beam, Return. But again, although it has good coverage, it has a limited and predictable movepool so you can plan around it. She doesn't have access to a single bug STAB that lets her stay on the field, just U-turn shenanigans. It also dies to priority moves because of very low defenses, it is too frail to exist in the Doubles meta I think.

Kartana will require teams to bring Fire special attacks, but even Chansey (base 35 special attack) with no investment in special attack has a 31% chance to OHKO Kartana with Flamethrower. Kartana also has only Physical damage because its special attack is low, so it can be planned around. It also doesn't learn any Steel-type moves at all so it only has Grass STAB. Its effective movepool is only this: Leaf Blade, Sacred sword, Air Slash, Night Slash, Return, X-Scissor. Decent coverage, but doesn't get STAB on any of the good moves.

Xurkitree is slow and cannot do anything to LightningRod pokemon. Also dies to priority.

Celesteela has a bad movepool.

Guzzlord has probably the best movepool out of the bunch and will be one of the better Ultra Beasts, but it's still slow and has low special defense (dies to moonblast and dazzling gleam).


The Ultra Beasts and the Tapus check each other, and none of them on their own are extremely dangerous or impossible to deal with. It will take a smart player to use them to max effect, unlike M-Salamence

>>29878474
>UBs aren't legendaries

Yeah and Owls aren't birds

>>29878553
A-Marowak along with Garchomp will be staples of Video Game Championship 2017.

I saw the Soul Dew is allowed as well. Does this confirm it was nerfed? Can someone test this?

>>29878352

Phermosa wounn't be so good for VGC since it's doubles. Glass Cannons typically don't fair well in doubles anyway. In Smogon Singles, Deoxys-A is Uber, but in Smogon Doubles, it's UU.

Now Celesteela, we'll probably see a lot of that fucker in VGC.

>>29878695
Latios and Latias are not allowed in the tournament, so of course you can put this useless item on your Exeggutor if you wish to do so.

>>29878695
It now boosts dragon and psychic moves by 20%

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>>29878013
>Tapu Bulu + Toxipex + Kartana

lol
people are overhyping the fuck out of the UBs. all of them are either glass cannons or walls, with extremely weird offensive typings and strange movepools. take Kartana for example, it learns nothing above 90 bp and grass and steel are both pretty shitty stabs.

they will be there, but they will be nowhere near as prevalent and meta-destroying as genies or kangaskhan/mence

>>29878663

>(also doesn't learn a single physical Bug STAB)
>She doesn't have access to a single bug STAB that lets her stay on the field, just U-turn shenanigans.

Are you literally retarded?

>Celesteela has a bad movepool.

>>29878663
>doesn't learn any Steel-type moves at all
Smart Strike is steel type IIRC

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>>29878109
Not really, well not any more than they were. People vastly overestimate how good these will be in doubles with the exception of Pheromosa, which is legitimately good but still has significant drawbacks that are exploitable.

Kartana - Hard countered by Arcanine, anything with a special fire move that outspeeds it will force it to protect or switch. Rain actually can't protect it. Can literally be OHKOed by stage 1 fire starter embers, do the calcs for a laugh. Any decent special move will OHKO as well and it's MUCH harder to protect against that in doubles than in singles

Kartana's attack is actually massively overrated because all of its moves are like 70-80BP and it has dogshit neutral coverage.

Pheromosa - Complete glass cannon with no split coverage, needs follow me/spotlight/wide guard support to be effective. Literally anything that hits it will do at least 50%. It'll still be very strong though just because of how well it pairs with Tapu Lele but it gets countered by trick room teams since trick room both removes priority protection and turns it into the slowest pokemon in the meta, and it's ridiculously frail compared to even things like Weavile.

Buzzwole - It's similar to Conkeldurr but lacks many high power attacks and is very frail on the special end of the spectrum, especially against flying type moves. Has a very rough time against Hurricane Pelliper which will be one of the primary weather setters in a weather heavy meta.

Xurkitree - Speed is very bad because it's not fast normally or in trick room. Weak to Earthquake, needs wide guard support or it'll get raped by Chomp. Speed swapping to it might be a good strat though.

Celesteela - Good typing, well rounded, good movepool, lots of possible sets. I think it'll be something of a staple with everyone running something different

Nihilego - x4 ground weak in a Chomp heavy meta, lmao no thanks

Guzzlord - dogshit

>>29878663
>Buzzwole [...] doesn't learn a single physical Bug STAB
Leech Life.

>>29878711

If terrain didn't get buffed this gen, I'd be inclined to agree but Tapu Lele is literally the best friend it could have asked for by auto-setting Psychic Terrain and nulling priority. Combine this with Z-moves and Pheromosa becomes the premier nuke.

>>29878672
>completely different names in Japanese and English
>570 BST
>Nihilego shown to be common fodder in Ultra Space
>multiple Buzzwole, Pheromosa, Xurkitree, Celesteela, and Kartana in a single save file

>>29878788
wow, you are terminally retarded

Pheromosa is cool because it might be the only thing that makes good use of Speed Swap. You can set up with a slow partner and give them super speed, then if Pheromosa survives she can still support with Quick Guard and Feint

>>29878801
that 20 base power attack. what a monster. gamefreak what were you thinking

>>29878851
rhibombee

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>>29878865

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>>29878865

>20 base power

>he doesn't know

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>>29878865
look at this retard and laugh

>>29878865
>he didn't read about move changes

>>29878773
Any idea of the base power?

>>29878870
Every time I see this name I think of Zombie by the Cranberries.

>>29878888
>those digits
anon BTFO

>>29878903
70 BP physical -- accuracy move.

>>29878903
70

>>29878903
80 iirc

>>29878663
>>29878865
Please, stop posting until you have read all the changes or played the game.

>>29878903
70

>>29878840
no u.

Celesteela and Pheromosa will probably be the most used UBs in VGC. Everything else other than Guzzlord is viable but niche.

>>29878936
My mom says I can post whatever I want.

>>29878903
80

>>29878663
Stopped reading at Mega Salamence has no weakness, it has never been that relevant except 2016 because of its terrible ice and fairy weakness which are extremely common in VGC.

>>29878947
your mom is retarded

>>29878053
tapu koko+ raichu/xurkitree/golem-A is why I'm seriously considering marowak-A for my team

>>29878946
Why don't you think Guzzlord is viable? It has Brick Break, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Crunch, Dark Pulse, Gyro Ball, Stone Edge and Draco Meteor. It has mixed offenses. Has extremely high HP and can survive forever.

>>29878865
Anon, low-level Zubats got approximately the biggest buff any Pokémon has ever gotten over a single generation. Leech Life's power has been quadrupled to 80.

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THE FUCK IS THIS
I DON'T LIKE UBS
I'm assuming these things are also legal in Battle Spot?

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>>29878053
>Tapu Koko + Heatran

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>>29878865

>>29879016

Any reliable recovery options outside of leftovers?

>>29878722
Soul Dew has been banned forever, even on Pidgey.

>There isn't a single thing that gets both Justified and Fake Out

So much for that new Brutal Swing move.

>>29879107
And is not allowed because of the nerf

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>>29878987
I'm just going to run Tapu Bulu + Hail instead.

>Tapu Bulu is slower so I assume his Terrain will override Electric Terrain on the opening
>Grassy Terrain makes Ground moves half as powerufl, lets me bring in my Steel types who are also immune to hail
>two new legendary Steel type sweepers that can take advantage (Katarna, Celesteela)
>Aurora Veil to stop hyper offense gimmicks that half the Ultra Beasts want to use
>get to use a stylish Alolan Ninetails

going to be a great year for vgc

>>29879107
>>29879124
now* allowed, I mean

>>29879065
Just Z-Stockpile

>No mention of best tapu yet

>>29878663
Guzzlord has pretty good bulk though. 223 HP is insane even with only 53 in both defenses. If you invest some EVs into its bulk something like, say, Clefable won't be able to OHKO it with Moonblast despite the x4 weakness.

223/53/53 bulk is comparable to 100/100/100, which is not frail by any definition of the word.

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>>29879139
>litten used ember

>>29879139
Steel types are immune to Hail? Besides Slandslash.

And Celesteela receives no benefits from Grassy Terrain but she's still a solid fit on any team.

>>29879159
no moves

>>29879139
>Steel types immune to hail

What?

>>29878013
>Minmaxed to shit
>Probably allowed more than 1 on a team
>Priority if fucked this gen the only means of beating some of them
Umm. Just limit them to 1 as there's no megas ans primals this time around

>>29879139
the thing I worry about there is that Xurkitree might be able to just punch through Bulu, Ninetales, and Celesteela, especially if he gets a tail glow off

>>29879016
It is x4 fairy weak in a meta which will be full of fairies, slow and defensive without a good support movepool and 107 attack isn't really that impressive.

It's not as tanky as people think it is either. It's slightly bulkier than Chansey on the physical side but far, far frailer on the special side. That much HP is a waste with low defenses.

>>29878053
lmao Tapu Koko's terrain will get replaced by Tapu Lele's terrain (who's gonna be a must have in doubles since it cancels all priority moves, even protect)

>>29879201
I might just run Fini just to ruin Lele. Seriously fuck that thing. Although there's still Tsareena and the stupid fish to worry about.

>>29879159

True but in a Tapu-centric meta his typing is a very big detriment especially with Guardian of Alola auto-dropping targets to 25%

>>29879213
it doesn't block Protect

>>29879266
>O_o

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>>29879266
>(O_o)

>>29879021

UBs > Megaevolutions

Their BST is under 600, I think they're just fine desu.

>>29879177
>>29879182
Woah that is really weird. I thought Steel types were immune to taking hail damage. I remember that being a mechanic? Did that get changed or am I high?

>>29879290
>>29879293
What's wrong (◠﹏◠)

>>29879309
You're thinking of sand.

>>29879309
Steel was always only immune to sand, not hail.

UBS will be used but they're a bit overrated. Garchomp and Tapus will be running the show in the next VGC.

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>>29879266
>(0_o)
Yo newfag if you want to express a reaction using a face, use an image. Or get out

>>29878672
UBs are on the same level as Legendaries.
Same levels, different origin.

so what non-UB/Tapu/Legendary Alola pokemon do you think will show up?

Toxapex, Bewear, Drampa, Kommo-o, Mimikyu?

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Where is this stupidity coming from?

Are people just seeing the one high stat bar and then looking at nothing else?

>>29879337
this, except for celesteela they're way too unbalanced to become serious over-centralizing threats in VGC.
It's gonna be a very interesting metagame. Can't wait to test new teams.

Is Shedinja in the dex?
If so prepare for A-Muk combos with it

>>29879373
Toxapex for sure

>>29879398
Duncankneedeep has always been a whiny little bitch

he will get over it since his Husbando said there not so bad

>>29879398
Just the same like in every other video game. If you ask people anything regarding balancing, you will see true stupidity.

Ignore whiners and just move on.

>>29879398
>DuncanKneeCuck

He only plays ebin free for alls he needs to shut the fuck up

>>29878553
>>29878684
Okay, what can A-Marowak do beyond:
>No burns to lower attack
>Thick Club boost
>Great Trick Room team member
>Immune to Electric, Fighting, and Normal
>Can take physical hits, and with Cursed Body possibly disable a move
>Can not hurt self when using Flare Blitz with Rock Head

>>29879398
>Are people just seeing the one high stat bar and then looking at nothing else?
Yes.

It's the same like people are looking at "no hordes" and think EV training is now shit again, when you have new options and some smogonfag even discovered that the SOS Battle system results in double EVs just a few hours ago.

>>29879398
Yes, these people are idiots. I mean yeah when you see LOL HIGHER ATK THAN MRAY your first impression is wow fucking ban this retarded shit

then you see it doesn't get any 100bp attacks
then you notice that its special bulk is so fucking bad that any special split attack will kill it, even a resisted surf in some cases, especially under rain

>>29879404
It's not and even if it was Wonderguard doesn't work for pokemon that aren't Shedinja, it's hard coded to his weaknesses now.

>>29879443
Cursed Body is a meme ability and while Rock Head Flare Blitz is a thing, it's still not as good as Lightningrod giving you an extra immunity which means extra safe switch-ins (which Marowak needs).

>>29879443
I'm mainly looking at him for lightning rod, seeing as he can shut down electric terrain teams.

Also, there are VERY few usable pokemon with a fire stab this year

This is going to be Garchomp and Lele the meta.

>>29879745
that's what ninetales is for!

>outspeeds unscarfed garchomp
>ice

TAPUS OF HEALTHY META: FEATURING ULTRA BEASTS

>>29879745
what are you supposed to run with Lele? Psychic Fangs Mega Sharpedo?

>>29879814
>mega

You run Pokemon that normally die to Priority since they will now be immune to it. Scarf Lele is perfect for huge Psychic spam since it can't be Bullet Punched or Cucker Punched.

Does anyone know the specifics of beast boost?
I've been hoping it might boost your actual highest stat instead of your highest base stat, which would make it much more useful on celesteela and to a lesser extent guzzlord, since with evs and natures their top stat could change.

>>29879868
meant to quote>>29879814

Reminder that UBs have a BST of 570, which is 10 points lower than legendary trio BSTs (Zapdos, Azelf, etc.), and that Megas are still banned. Plus with how how many slow Pokemon there are in the Alola dex, we may see Trick Room be a good way to counter the speedier UBs.

Alolan marowak might actually see some use

I can see hail teams doing some work as well if garchomp is popular once again

>>29879874
It boosts your highest total stat.

>>29879020
Nah apparently Leech Life has been replaced by Absorb for Zubat's level-up moves

>>29879868
I think I'm gonna run Fini with Scizor or something. I have a feeling it'll be horribly flawed though and I'll lose to Tsareena or something.

>>29879968
heck yes
heavy slam here I come

>>29878013

why they even allowing full legendary team.... they should be limited to one per team...

>>29880000
>...
Please return to GameFAQs or lurk more.

>>29880180
he got quads tho

>>29880000
WASTED

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>>29879802
>tfw Tapus are the new genies.

>>29880000
Legendary doesn't mean good. Articuno is a complete shitmon for instance and plenty others are mediocre.

>>29880266
Tapu are actually worse than the genies

I'm not joking when I say that 3 Tapu/Garchomp/Metagross/Gigalith is probably going to be a viable way to play. Koko/Lele no matter what, then drop either Bulu or Fini depending on how you want to build your Chomp/Metagross.

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>>29879802
>>29880266
What the fuck even has a strong Poison STAB to kill these things?
Gengar was nerfed into the ground (see what I did there?), seems to be no Poison type worth using anymore.

Also what the fuck Bird is there anymore? Talonflame was nerfed, Staraptor not allowed in VGC17... Who will be able to kill Buzzwole and Pheromosa with a Flying move?

>>29880341
and here folks we have a genuine retard. be sure to take lots of pictures because these are far and few between

>>29880341
>le Healthy Nihilego of Sludge Bombing Island Guardians

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>>29880341
>Metagross
>Gigalith

>>29880350
Time for scarf Dodrio baby

>>29880350
Aerodactyle

also UB swole and Beauty can do fuck all to ghost types

>>29878474
They are just legendaries with another name, same shit

>>29880511
I'm considering it desu. Jump Kick and Brave Bird seems pretty decent.

Also, is it true that Psychic Terrain blocks Protect? That's utter bullshit if it's true.

>>29880350
Just because Gengar can't float doesn't mean he's suddenly useless, he can still shit on the Tapus. Hell, he can profit from their Terrains now as well.
Nihelego also outspeeds 3 of them.

>>29880698
Psychic Terrain blocks pokemon on the ground from being STRUCK BY priority moves.

Protect is not an attack or debuff - it's fine

>>29880350
what is salazzle

>>29879398
>Actually following DKD
An average player with a bigger ego than Verlis and a salty bitch irl, I really don't know why people don't stick to Cybertron, Baz Anderson, Wolfe and other VGC players for that and Blunders group for Smogon

>>29880511
Not legal in vgc17

>>29880350
CROBAT

aside from thundurus swagger bullshit (which got nerfed in two different ways) I don't really get why people hate the genies

The tapus are interesting, I do expect them to be everywhere but they're dynamic in battle and that's important

>>29881336
Lackluster. Can't even guaranteed 2HKO tapu koko. Lele and Fini don't give a single shit about Crobat

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>>29880350
>(see what I did there?)

>>29881487
>I don't really get why people hate the genies

Priority Thunder Wave, Substitute, Taunt and Nasty Plot is disgusting, on top of its offenses; Thundurus-T may not be as fast and tricky but is much stronger; Lando-T has a fuckton of roles that it can perform, all of them extremely annoying in one way or another, which translates to "it can take hits and hit like a truck just as well", Lando-I may not be as unpredictable but hits even harder on the special side; Tornadus-T learns a great variety of moves on top of its good stat distribution between offenses, acceptable defenses and great speed and Regenerator allowing it to use a Life Orb with lighter punishment; Tornadus-I is "meh" when compared to the other genies, but still can put Prankster to good use and hits hard too.

Overall they are rather strong on their own to the point they centralize the meta around themselves with relative ease, both in VGC and in Smogon.

>>29881487
Landorus and Thunderus' strengths are so varied wide and encompassing that it performs the roles of multiple mons and replaces a large chunk of the dex in terms of competitive. They are also incredibly easy to place on a team, Landorus-T fits on literally any team, no matter what kind of team you have thee's a set for it that it would benefit from, and the only thing it has to worry about is giving Milotic a boost. With Swagger and T-wave, Thunderus gives any team an opportunity to win at any point in a match with the help of RNGesus and comes with powerful STAB electric moves.

They're everywhere, they're really fucking good, and they're hideous.

>>29880426
Gigalith has Sand Stream now and with no Tyranitar in the dex it will be the go to mon for sand setup.

How the fuck is nobody questioning this leak? Cant they switch up ban lists on the fly? This "leak" is literally just a fucking copy/paste of the alola dex.

>>29882452
Problem is sand sucks, Excadrill is about the only reason to specifically run a Sandstream user and it's not legal in 2017

>>29882533
It's not a leak, Battle Spot ladder rules got datamined

>>29878663
Literally the dumbest poster on the site.

>we lost Genies of Healthy Meta and in exchange literally every team will be running 1-2 Tapus and 4-5 UBs, MAYBE Ferrothorn or Toxapex
Sasuga GameFreak

Where can I see the stats and moves of the new Pokémon? I want to see some stuff from Togedemaru.

>>29883976
Prepare yourself for the disappointment.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yx61tXCHTp9PqvluxdN1Xi2zcUxATI1f3uS7UHtpeQ0/edit#gid=0

>>29882611
Why isn't excadrill legal?

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>>29884174
It's not even that bad for a pikaclone now that I'm looking at it again

>>29884247
not in the dex

>>29884305
It gets decent speed for something so fat. Too bad its SpA is sort of dicks.

>>29881336
isb't its strongest poin stab cross poinson with 70bp. And coming off of 90 attack isn't going to hit very hard either

>>29884174
Daaaw, I was waiting for Follow Me or Super Fang. I think it is decent, though.
Lighting Rod would have been good if only its SpA wasn't shit. LR should work as Flash Fire for electric moves.

>>29880932
Is Ogloza okay?

>>29880350
Mixed Celesteela. STAB Heavy Slam for Tapus, Air Slash for Bugs, and doesn't care about Garchomp. Koko threatens it but Celesteela threatens it back.

>>29879398
>UBs aren't worse then megas

????????????????

what?

>>29882611
Not at all, weather starters are also used to disrupt oponents that rely on them.
Gigalith also hits most of the Tapus pretty hard with Heavy Slam and has Wide Guard. It has use in the up coming format

>>29884867
literally aren't

>>29884845
Celesteela deals with the tapus worse than you think.
Lele and Bulu get obliterated just fine.
Fini and Koko are water/fairy and electric/fairy respectively so heavy slam isn't super effective. This means with both of them, you're looking at a 2HKO, and Koko 2HKO's as well but has much higher speed
Garchomp can also threaten with fire fang, as it hits Celesteela for a little over half.
Celesteela is still pretty great, but it's not the tapu deleter I first thought it was

>>29885184
Fini can't do much back outside of Scald which makes the matchup RNG-based. Celesteela does lose to Koko, but does do good damage and can win if the Electric STAB is redirected.
Garchomp can use Fire Fang/Blast to threaten, but runs into 4MSS and has to give up either Protect or Rock Slide to do so. I do agree Celesteela isn't the 100% perfect Tapu slayer, but does very well and is the best generic answer for them.

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>>29878865

>>29882611
I thought this too, this is from playing too much Smogon tiers, but you gotta remember that Garchomp's basic ability is Sand Veil, making a bulky Leftovers Garchomp a fucking nightmare under sand.

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>>29878865
Here is your (you)

ubs are ten times better than megas

>>29886483
ubs are glass cannons with terrible offensive typings

>>29886504
thats what i mean retard, they wont be pure cancer like megas

>>29879398
It's because the rest of the Alola Dex has such awful stat disruption it makes the Ultra Beast looks stronger than they are.

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THANK YOU TAPUS OF HEALTHY TERRAIN

THANK YOU ULTRA BEASTS OF HEALTHY META

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>>29878865
Put me in the screencap.

>>29879398
UB ARE TOO STRONG!
>proceed to use secondary legendaries

>>29879344
your tumblr gif on the other hand is much less 'new'

I'm being ironic, fuck off.

Is Buzzwole stronk?

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>>29878865