ITT: We mourn dead OU mons. I'll start.

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>>29843538

inb4 Gengar.

Losing Levitate is not as bad as people think.

>>29843556
>>29843565
like pottery

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>>29843556
>>29843565

>>29843538
>We mourn dead crutchmons
Serves you right.

>>29843565
It leaves an already shit-tier defense mon susceptible to one of the most overused 100-BP moves in the game. It is as bad as people think.

>>29843613
How is the mushroom dead?
He's probably even more viable now that the birb is dead.

>>29843613
Why? It'll be way better with Talonflame gone.

>>29843630
>>29843631
Koko

>>29843556
Well, it's not like we won't be using it's Mega anyway.

>>29843652
Oh dang you're right
>Tapu Koko will prevent Spore
>Tapu Lele will prevent faste punche and will generally just hit super-effectively

>>29843652
Koko has 2 attacking moves and a worthless terrain

it will never be used

>no more talonflame
>opens up way for heracross, galvantula, volcarona, breloom, keldeo, lucario, alakazam, and probably several other fighting types. This hurts dark types and bulky grass types
>electric types won't be as valuable

Make of that what you will, but I'm pretty sure bisharp, tangrowth, serperior, and raikou won't make the cut

>>29843538
What did they do to Talonflame? They changed the abilities right? Any stat changes?

>>29843738
gale wings carried talonflame and it's shit now

>>29843738
Nerfed Gale Wings, it's only active when Talonflame has full HP.

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>corrosion ability
>nerfed t-wave and swagger

I feel that'll be enough to keep him stuck in UU at least.

I never liked how Talonfag represented the power creep in priority mechanics, but now that it's gone I guess I lose a free kill since I tend to use Rock/Electric Pokemon and shit like Blaziken loses its biggest check

>>29843703
Koko is also part fairy

>>29843727
All this gets OHKOd by Staraptor.

>>29843845
And? If you include Special moves, it gets Dazzling Gleam, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Wild Charge, and Brave Bird. That's it. And it only has 115/95 Attacking stats.

>>29843624
it still has 110 speed, 130 sp.atk and shit hard coverage to wall/switch into along with lots of annoyances like wisp, sub, disable, destiny bond etc.

people are overexaggerating massively. is it a nerf? yes. is it the end of gengar? no.

>>29843912
Wait, I forgot Volt Switch and U-Turn. Still, I don't think people will use something that's hard-walled by Ferrothorn.

>>29843877

Which is fine and fair. It's POSSIBLE to beat starraptor if you are weak to brave bird. You can outspeed, or use your own priority, or something. If you are weak to flying you CAN NOT beat talonflame. With maybe one or two exceptions like tangrowth which isn't even super reliable. This was always my biggest problem with talonflame.

You can be weak to ghost and easily beat gengar, you can be weak to ground and easily beat garchomp, but when you have a super fast, priority, choice banded, 120 BP flying attack, there's nothing you can do

>>29843703
Koko has an amazing movepool though. 115/95 offenses makes a solid special and mixed attacker.

>95 special attack doesn't mean it's good!
>252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 187-220 (49 - 57.7%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
>252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Electric Terrain: 199-235 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Grass Knot,D-Gleam,Brave Bird bops most Electric resists

It will be OU

>>29843916
It wasn't staying in on Lando or Exca for the most part. The shit thing is that it's now susceptible to getting widdled by Spikes which means less LO attacks.

I don't understand the current jerk over Leech Life. The only thing I can see semi-benefiting from it is Crobat or Eviolite-Golbat.

>>29843755
Did swagger really get nerfed?

>>29843950

I'm curious how much electroball would do. I know it's resisted, but it is max power from the speed difference, gets stab, and electric terrain boost. Meanwhile all ferrothorn could do is power whip it while it roosts off damage

>>29843950
I wouldn't be surprised now that Salazzle is introduced. Volt Switch against Ferro into Salazzle, get a free Toxic or Fire-type move.

The metagame is going to get quite cancerous now that Talonflame is gone, since it kept most cancerous pokemon in check.

>>29843755
In what way was swagger nerfed?

>>29844038
it's a TM and most bug types (and a lot of non bug types) can learn it now

>>29844049
>>29844111
Confusion only makes you hit yourself 1/4 of the time now.

>>29843977
How Nice. I'm just happy my favorite bird might get a chance to shine.

I never knew how cancerous Talon was. I could always beat it by knocking it off, setting rocks, or keeping a bulky water in the back like Swampert.

>>29844102

Talonflame was the most cancerous pokemon ever introduced (followed by darkrai and politoed).

Talonflame defenders always just say "git gud" but if you can't deal with volcarona, then go the fuck back to battlespot

>>29843585
It should be "try to levitate".

>>29844102
Like?

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>>29843703
>Greninja gets banned to ubers for getting a 1.5x boost on attacks from 103 special attack
>Koko gets a 1.5x boost on thunderbolt/volt switch and has 95 special attack

nope not seeing similarities at all. Koko is confirmed FU.

>>29844066
If you want break through Ferro, Specs is the safest option:
>252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Electric Terrain: 168-198 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
1 layer of Spikes guarantees a 2HKO. Damn...

>>29844155

Maybe I'm just biased, but I'm a monotype bug fag, and there was pretty much nothing I could do to handle talonflame and still have a viable team. I would have to sacrifice half of my team to take it down, and only if the other player was retarded and stayed in on an obviously sashed galvantula or something.

The only bugs that could survive two brave birds were shuckle, and crustle with MAX defense investment, which would then be dead weight after he beat talonflame. That's why it was banned. I would rather fight a ho-oh, a fire type arceus, a lugia, a primal groudon, etc before I fought a talonflame

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STEP ASIDE LADS.

THERE'S A NEW STALLMON IN YOUR META.

>>29844139
Thank god! Battling enemies in-game who spammed swagger was really annoying, so I'm personally happy.

>>29844066
Gyro Ball tho

All I can find are shitty clickbait sites. Where are the full leaks?

>>29844261
www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokemon-sun-and-moon-mine-resource-thread-look-here-first.3586425

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>>29844161
quick and dirty

>gengar mega was cancer and considered one of the most ridiculous pokemon in singles but wasn't really a problem in doubles
>they nerf base gengar which has had levitate for nearly 3 generations with no issue

T-thanks gamefreak, you sure know how to balance!
I like how you didn't even bother to try to balance Mega Salamence, Mega Fug, or Mega Metagross!

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Dodrio @ Leftovers
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Jump Kick
- Quick Attack

You'll be seeing this a lot. Calling it now.

>>29843556
why?! why do this?! he's a glass canon! he can't take any hits! that's a defensive ability damnit!

>>29844474
Why Leftovers over Life Orb? Why not Knock Off?

>>29844494
Good point on Knock Off. I was just trying to throw together a fast set utilizing Swords Dance and his new speed boost. But then again, muh rocks might make all of this irrelevant.

>>29844474
focus sash might work better because it's frail as fuck

>>29843624
Guess what's also weak to EQ? Excadrill. Guess what also has no bulk? Excadrill. Guess what's also OU? Excadrill.

>>29844577
Guess what's used as a boosting sweeper with almost unsurpassable speed in sand? Excadrill. Guess what's only useful as a hit and run wallbreaker with no boosting moves and mediocre speed? Gengar.

Guess what "no bulk" pokemon has 110 base HP and a specially defensive set common in OU? Excadrill.

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Not OU, but the niche this boy filled in the stall meta has now been extinguished. Rest easy, sweet prince.

>>29844718
what? nothing changed. Suicune never had water absorb.

>>29844718
what did they mean by this

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>>29844236
B-brother? Is that you?

>>29843538
what about protean greninja?
is that still a thing?
>nerf regular gengar
>let mega gengar stay with perish song protect and substitute
ffs gamefreak

>>29844988
Protean Greninja is still a thing.

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>>29845051

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>>29843986
>Mewtwo needs to go from 154 spatt to 169 to do the same damage

>>29844718
Crocune was always king of UU and one of the best Pressure users

This thing will troll Battle Spot with Sheer Cold sets

>>29843703
>Koko has 2 attacking moves and a worthless terrain

your that fucking dumb, koko will be ab ou staple

>>29844182
>nope not seeing similarities at all
Good, because unlike Greninja it only works for one type of attack from Koko. One that multiple Pokemon are immune to.

>>29843755
>OU
>t-wave and swagger

Excuse me?

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>>29843556
>after six whole fucking generations of being a OU staple, Gengar will finally be demoted
I'm gonna miss the guy.

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>>29846137
I'm not.

>>29843748
>>29843538
Talonflame did nothing wrong.

>>29846101
what did he mean by this

>>29844038
It's now the strongest draining move

>>29846101
thunderwave's speed drop was weakened, confusion activates 25% of the time instead of 50%

>>29846319
*paralyze's speed drop
sorry

>>29843585
F

>>29846243
Early game birds don't deserve to be good.

>>29846425
Talonflame is still incredible in-game to be honest

it's the best and most easily accessible Fairy counter with Steel Wing and Flare Blitz, and Stealth Rocks aren't a thing in the main game

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>>29843538
>mourning smogonbird
fuck you and suck my flaccid cock

>>29843556
Rip in shit little buddy
Died just before you were old enough to drink

Worked too many hours this week so in the dark about this. What makes Talonflame shit now?

>>29846501
Gale wings only prevents flinch now

>>29846501
Gale Wings only works at full health

>>29843700
Are the Tapus the new genies? They're all awful and all look the same with slight, barely noticeable differences.

>>29844102
>Talonflame prevented cancer
Are you fucking memeing?

>>29846517
>>29846535
which one is it?

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Has there ever been a bigger fall from grace?

>>29846537
They don't look nearly as similar as the genies, what the hell are you on

>>29846555

It's because he had a funny face

>>29846537
Tapus are better design wise compared to the genies. Though yes, they will probably be the cancer of OU. To UU and lower we go.

>>29844182
>it ain't me
/tv/ used to be my home board next to /vp/, it was stupid but functional

now it's just facebook 2.0

fuck Star Wars, I hope Disney fucking burns

>>29846548
the full health one

>>29843556
Mega Gengar is still the same at least.

>>29846555
snorlax desu. Fucking powercreep

>>29846558
They might have SLIGHTLY different forms, but they're still clusterfucks of zigzags and shapes and I barely know what the fuck I'm looking at.

If these fucking models had some texture then they might look better. Or if the 3D graphics had any discernable style of their own. XY/ORAS/SM look like some random WiiFit game or something. Bland.

>>29843986
Calc 252 Att Wild Charge

>>29846615
I don't think it was powercreep as much as the prevalence of new Fighting-type moves.

>>29846319
Why the huge nerf to confusion? Why not down to 1/3?

That is odd

>>29846615
King of OU to UU isn't THAT bad, tauros went from an essential to garbage in one gen.

>>29844236
>>29844897
FINALLY!!! And it only took GF 17 years to fix their mistake. Now Mantine can join his physical equivalent brother in being a pain in the ass. Now if they could only find a way to balance forretress and ferro...

>>29846674
Forretress was the lord of Gen V.

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>literally the one counter to QD Volcarona is now crippled
It's time for the fire buggo to tear shit up again.

>inb4 sun doggo priority rock move
If it does manage to break OU (I don't think it will), it's nowhere near as close to a counter that Talonflame was. Giga Drain is a standard on Volc, so it creates a 50/50 in your favor. Plus it's much more one-dimensional than Talonflame that could run band/support/bulk up/sd and whatever else it wanted to do.

THE
FIRE
WILL
RISE

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If Tauros was the guy who got cucked the hardest over a period of one Gen, which mon rose from rags to riches over one Gen?

>>29846794
Volcarona probably isn't even in my top 20 favorite Pokemon, but it's one of those Pokemon you just have to admire for how excellent their design is. Volcarona is the Scyther of its age.

Is there a list of mons nerfed in SM?

I know theres Gengar,M-Kanga and Talonflame. Anything else?

>>29846794
Won't sneaky pebbles still fuck it? I would love to have see use again, great design and cool typing.

>>29846827
Once it got move tutor moves scizor went from goodish to godly.

>>29846242
starmie can't keep getting away with it
actually it can because its my fav, suck my balls gengar

>>29846887
But Charizard was a literal joke. Now it's the best DDancer in OU, and that's not even its only role.
>Willozard
>Y-zard
>etc.

>>29843538
no mourning for smogonbird desu

>>29846862
Clefable and Keldeo were indirectly nerfed by the changes to Thunder Wave, Paralysis, and Burn

the legendary beasts also essentially lost their HAs, but that doesn't matter because they were never released

>>29846839
I think bug-types have the most consistently good designs in the game. Besides maybe Wormadam I don't think there's one I can say I dislike.

>>29846863
It was OU in Gen V when rocks were everywhere. It was banned from UU in Gen VI because it was just too strong.

Even coming in at 50% Volcarona is a goddamn monster SINGLE HANDEDLY held back by Talonflame.

>>29846904
the difference there is charizard got a mega, the other mons are different because of move changes or meta changes

>>29846827
How was tauros nerfed sorry don't know what happened

>>29846827
Clefable is a better example

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REST IN HELL SMOGONMOLE

>>29846827

Charizard went NU to OU

Mawile went NU to Uber.

>>29846944
How what happened

>>29846925
>I think bug-types have the most consistently good designs in the game.
I wanna say Bug, Ghost, Ground, and to a lesser extent Electric have the best designs respectively.

It sucks. Fire is my favorite type but most of the mons are fucking shite.

>>29846950
Too high. Mawile and M-Kang got just as cucked as Tauros did, just at the opposite end of the spectrum. Charizard got buffed JUST enough. A goldilocks buff if you will.

>>29846940
good point

>>29846939
it was never nerfed, it just went from insane in gen 1 (over 20% chance to crit, Normal was the best type because there were no good Rock types and Psychic types meant Fighting types couldn't be used) to just "ok" in gen 2 (Steel type was introduced)

>>29846956
Gengar's gone so it no longer exists as a check
That new Water type's synergy with Ferrothorn fucks it over.
The new Bug/Fighting Cockroach eats it alive.
More and more Pokemon with recovery have Defog now like Mantine and Pelliper exists to set weather that hard fuck it.

It's age is over.

>>29846939
>Gen I Speed = crits
>usable Special stat nerfed
>no moves.png until Gen IV

>>29846914
What happened to t-wave and burn?

What's the best Tauros Gen I moveset?

I always ran

>Double Edge / Body Slam
>EQ
>Headbutt / Hyper Beam / Body Slam
>Fire Blast / Blizzard

>>29847018
burn does half the damage it did per turn, t-wave now has a 10% chance to miss

>>29847018
Burn's damage was halved so the damage doesn't chip through leftovers anymore

Thunder Wave was reduced to 90 Accuracy and Paralysis' speed reduction was nerfed

>>29844236
Sorry, what did they change with Mantine?

>>29846925
Volc was also a great weather abuser. With Sun it got insane power, and it even had some use on Rain with Hurricane. Also, it dipped in and out of BL at points during the metagame. Bravest bird was a big part of its drop in popularity, though. It also made Heatran more popular, which takes a dump on 95% of Volc's sets

>>29847072
Got Roost.

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>>29847125
Oh fuck that's radical

>>29847072
roost and like +10 base HP (either +10 base HP or +20, don't remember which)

>>29843538

can someone explain how Bravest Bird is dead? I haven't been here in a while.

>>29847092
Now if Volc coming back means more Heatran, we might see Dugtrio make it back to OU. People never talk about Dugtrio's fall from grace all the way to RU.

Now that it rocks 100 attack I can see it as a scary revenge trapper with a band/soft sand/LO

>>29847164
gale wings only works when it's at full HP now

>>29847165
great that they gave dugtrio attack to make it better. Especially when it's alolan form gives it a defensive ability, I dunno how they fucked up that one but they did

>>29843556
>>29843585

what happens if I just transfer a Gengar from Gen 6

doesn't smogon use transfer moves and stuff?

>>29847189
it gets changed to cursed body if traded

>>29847167

I don't see how that makes it unusable

>>29847022
>hyper beam
>optinal
STAB hyper beam and no recharge if it kills is the fucking stupidest thing. Not to run HB on it is insane

>>29847189
Ability changes upon transfer.

>>29847189
its ability will get replaced

>>29847184
Just the fact that the Alolan form doesn't have arena trap makes it objectively worse.

All they did was make Excadrill Lite.

>>29847206

what

that's stupid

>>29847208
it's weak to rocks, any chip damage at all stops its ability, and Brave Bird deactivates its ability because of the recoil

it's dead now

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>>29843556
rip levitate

>>29847208
Priority is law.
No more fast recovery with roost or revenge killing, gg.

>>29847208
well, after stealth rocks it can't use priority, after using flare blitz or brave bird it can't get priority.
Talonflame has less attack then amoongus, it was great because of priority brave bird and roost, now after basically anything it loses that.

>>29847208
Are you retarded?

>>29846891

Not unless Greninja becomes OU again.

>>29847244

>priority is law

not with all the nerfs to it in general

Wow I didn't know there were so many straight up morons on /vp/. Maybe we did get invaded by reddit. I mean some of you here just seem downright stupid.

>>29847309
that might be true, but either way it just makes talonflame even worse now

>>29847208
Have a 1v1 scenario

Before:
>talonflame used brave bird
>dragon dance with my m-gyarados
>talonflame kills my gyra next turn

>talonflame used brave bird
>dragon dance m-gyara
>I now kill the talonflame because it took damage from brave bird and lost priority
>or it never had priority from chip damage
>or rocks
Talonflame removed so many setup sweepers.

They're all coming back now. Cue offensive meta and many Smogon bans.

>>29847330
unaware didn't actually get nerfed, so it might not be that way

>>29846827
>which mon rose from rags to riches over one Gen
Literally any low tier Pokemon who got a decent mega

>>29847351
The one move all unaware mons spam did get nerfed.

And by unaware mons I mean fucking Clef. Quag doesn't compare.

And possibly Pukumyuku depending how good it first in the meta.

>>29847330
I dunno- they were banning M-Sableye last I looked.

Also dragon dance everywhere. Smogon so boring.

>>29847330
>Cue offensive meta and many Smogon bans.

I wonder when Smogon will learn that their approach to the meta is losing touch with how Pokemon has been developing these past few gens.

For the love of fuck Doubles is now the primary VGC format and the majority of Gen 7 is geared towards it. But no, let's double down on focusing on 1v1 and fucking stall.

>>29847330
>Talonflame removed so many setup sweepers.
OHHHHHH

SO THAT'S WHY SMOGON NEVER BANNED THAT CANCER

IT ALL COMES TOGETHER

>>29847411
I'm looking forward to doubes this gen, not to mention free for all are now a potentially fun thing to do.

that is if that air balloon alolan muk and final gambit shedinja strategy doesn't work.

>>29847405
3 pokemon in the ou tier use DD

>>29843624
oh please. mold breaker excadrill is the only damn thing in OU that even runs EQ anymore in any real way, and mold breaker makes levitate useless. garchomp would rather outrage, gengar outspeeds and OHKOs landorus, everything else would rather knock off. EQ is not a staple any more simply because it's kind of worthless when other moves have high BP and STAB without being blocked by a whole type.

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>>29847546
>mold breaker excadrill is the only damn thing in OU that even runs EQ

>>29847556
there's about 4 sentences after that partial quote numbnuts.

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>>29847546
>mold breaker excadrill is the only damn thing in OU that even runs EQ anymore in any real way,
So this is the power of /vp/....it's quite something.....

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>>29843538
Good, it was completely overpowered compared to the starter birds but even with the nerf it's still viable.

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Will Outrage be more common with the confusion nerf?

>>29847546
Jesús Christ...

I'd rather Dmeteor with Garchomp than outrage in this metagame.

EQ is fine and dandy with Landorus T ever used him as a wincon? Ever used EQ on SD lo Garchomp is consistent in breaking stuff, SD Gliscor needs it, EQ is the main asset of dugtrio, not to mention several Pokémon that love CB eq for consistency.

The stonequake combo of dual stabs still holds up very well no matter the situation.

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>>29847667
NOOOOOO

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>>29847546
>mold breaker excadrill is the only damn thing in OU that even runs EQ anymore in any real way, and mold breaker makes levitate useless
>garchomp would rather outrage
>gengar outspeeds and OHKOs landorus
>EQ is not a staple any more simply because it's kind of worthless when other moves have high BP and STAB without being blocked by a whole type
There's so much wrong with this post that I don't know where to begin

>>29847599
you guys think you're so fuckin sharp, but you're totally off. here's a list of pokemon that use EQ in OU nowadays.

>Dragonite
>Excadrill
>Garchomp
>Gliscor
>Hippowdon
>Landorus
>Tangrowth

The only actual pokemon on that list that threaten gengar are Dragonite, Excadrill, Chomp, Hippowdon, and Tangrowth, and for each of those, you shouldn't stay in using levitate gengar in the first place.

Dragonite and Chomp OHKO with Outrage/Dragon Claw already, Hippowdon OHKOs with Stone Edge, Tangrowth OHKOs with Knock Off, and Excadrill's EQ already hits gen 6 gengar. Gengar is fucking frail, that's why he always runs sweep sets or tricky substitute sets, because he cannot take a single hit. If you actually think loss of levitate makes gengar MORE susceptible to being killed by OU pokemon that use EQ, you simply do not understand competitive pokemon. The only real downside to it is that you can no longer predict EQ and get a free switch in.

Has anyone actually tested the Gale wings nerf? What if it's just utter BS like the unaware description?

>>29847777
QUADS CONFIRM
SMOGONBIRD LIVES
>inb4 Gary Oak

>>29847777
Wait. Is the unaware description wrong?

>>29847777
the same anon that confirmed unaware wasn't nerfed also confirmed gale wings nerf.

>>29847411
>don't ban Drizzle in Gen 5 despite it completely ruining the tier
>don't ban Scald in Gen 6 despite it turning many matches into luckfests

>are actually thinking about banning Baton Pass entirely because it's unfair to teambuilding

No wonder so many of the saner heads there fucked off entirely!

>>29847546
mega gyarados runs EQ every now and then

its either Crunch or EQ

>>29847699
>The only real downside to it is that you can no longer predict EQ and get a free switch in.
That's the point fucktard.

Gengar is a frail piece of shit that's why losing free switches hurts him a fuckton. How can you be so dense that you are able to point out everything about why losing is bad but not realize it's bad?

>>29847850

Yes, the gen 6 description makes it seem different when it's actually completely unchanged.

Hence why I thought it might be unwise to celebrate the death of Bravest Bird without doing some testing first

>>29847869
Don't forget them adamantly refusing to do anything about Stealth Rock, despite it having a monumental effect on gameplay. Gotta maintain that status quo at all costs!

>>29847957
I always hated hazards, yeah it punishes random switching but when every singles team in existence needs rocks and hazard removal it gets old quick

>>29847879
gengar losing the once in maybe 10 battles successful prediction of EQ is not dropping him from OU, "fucktard", and if you're playing against people that will use non-mold breaker EQ while you have a flying or levitate pokemon alive thus giving you a free turn then you're fighting a SHITTER and you don't have the right to talk about this. EQ is not run on anything that doesn't NEED it to attack for a fucking reason, if you were above 1500 you'd know that

File: mega pinsir.jpg (131KB, 885x661px) Image search: [Google]

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I hope bravest bug survives. I love him.

How about a little note for all those that are going to drop from pure powercreep. The current bottom of OU. Guys like Hippowdon and Gliscor that might not take more contest for team slots.

>>29843538
F

>>29843556
Wont drop, nothing does fast ghost spam quite like it. Not until we get Marshadow anyway, then its good as gone.

>>29843613
Nigga you dumb. Koko will be a cap on it but it still does its job 9/10 of the time.

>>29843755
Still does its current job just fine, screens and spikes. Might go UU just because powercreep anyway.

>>29844236
Looking forward to it being OU for about a month or two then dropping as it doesn't serve very good utility like skarmory or latias do.

>>29846242
You will.

>>29846555
Politoed.
>Omnipresent to PU shitmon

>>29846827
Politoed
>NU shitmon to omnipresent

>>29846944
Dumbest post in thread congrats.

>>29847546
I take that back, this is the dumbest.

>>29847667
Thrash Mega-Pinsir soon friend.

>>29847998
He will.

>>29847998
with talonflame gone he has a good chance.

also if he gets leech life then he might even be able to heal up after rocks, so he might be better

>>29847998
if anything, it's better because Bravest Bird doesn't threaten it anymore

>>29846940
>people still think fairy is balanced

>>29848018
>Hippowdon and Gliscor dropping
>But Excadrill won't

RETARD
RETARD

>>29846649
Wait what happened to Tauros?

>>29848041
Fuck are you talking about, he made the big aspie post, it means he's smarter than you dumbass. Learn the rules kiddo :^)

>>29848018
>Nigga you dumb. Koko will be a cap on it but it still does its job 9/10 of the time.
It literally makes Breloom useless. Talonflame could be spore bait or Rock Tomb bait, Breloom has nothing on Koko.

>>29848041
Why are Hippowdon and Gliscor dropping?

also, those are defensive mons, not sweepers, what the fuck

>>29848043
Basically between gen 1 and gen 2 every single fast utility-less Pokemon became useless.

>>29848041
Continue being assmad that smogonmole will continue to rule.

>>29848056
Koko can't switch in on grass moves.

>>29848060
They're both at low usage (4%ish, cutoff is 3%) and powercreep might just push them over.

>>29848075
Explain how Smogonmole can remain relevant in this meta dominated by defoggers with recovery and the UB's of ultimate minmaxing. He literally gets face fucked by every UB, even the pure Electric one.

>>29848102
You do realise the main niche of the mold breaker variant is to set up rocks on magic bouncers right, especially now.
Sand rush variant is still also incredibly strong.
And name a spinner with those resists, that HP and that attack?

>>29847699
Lets dissect what you've got here
>for each of those, you shouldn't stay in using levitate gengar in the first place
In why the fuck won't Gengar stay in on Tangrowth?
Only fully specially defensive Assvest lives LO Sludge Wave and even then, knock off doesn't OHKO

Standard tankchomp runs EQ, Dtail and Fire Blast. Tail does Approx 50% and FB 30%
Alternately: 252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 198-234 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You didn't mention Gliscor, even though if it runs Knock Off it beats Gengar more reliably than most of your list (bar Lum Dragonite and Scarf drill/LO drill in Sand). However, if it's one of the many sets without Knock Off (eg Tox/Taunt, or the shitty SD/Facade set) Levitate means Gengar wins 1v1

>Hippowdon OHKOs with Stone Edge
0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 120-142 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 192-227 (45.7 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So with Levitate and very little chip damage (1 layer of spikes will do) Gengar wins this matchup, however it loses every time without levitate.


You didn't mention Landorus as a threat even though it runs Knock Off more than half the time. However, it can't revenge kill Scarf Lando locked into EQ anymore, or even put pressure on the opponent not to EQ when gengar is alive, which brings me to
>The only real downside to it is that you can no longer predict EQ and get a free switch in
As >>29847879 mentioned, and you didn't actually provide any counter arguments against, this is actually a big deal.
Using your own argument against you, however: >>29847996
>using non-mold breaker EQ while you have a flying or levitate pokemon
So, without Levitate, people WILL just spam EQ. Where Gengar previously provided a Ground immunity for your team, it's just providing a weakness now, making it MUCH harder to put on your team.

>>29848075
>Alola Dugtrio does everything it does better
>Regular Dugtrio hard counters it now and does it's job better.

RETARDED

>>29848132
Alola Dugtrio has 35 less base Attack, doesn't get Sand Rush, and has significantly worse bulk

File: melemele_guardian___tapu_koko_by_darside34-da8rmi8.png (246KB, 596x755px) Image search: [Google]

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>there are retards who think Koko won't be an OU staple
I'm so fucking hyped for this breath of fresh air in OU.

>Band/Life Orb Wild Charge in Electric Terrain
>gets Brave Bird and FUCKING FAST U-TURN

>special set is literally just as viable
>Specs/Life Orb @ Thunderbolt/Dazzle/Volt Switch/HP Fire hits literally everything hard
>1.5x boosted momentum move what the fuck

>ALSO GETS CALM MIND AND ROOST
>GETS DUAL SCREENS IF YOU'RE DUMB ENOUGH TO USE THIS OFFENSIVE MONSTER AS SUPPORT (BUT IT'S STILL AN OPTION)
He might not get many moves, but the few he gets plus his ability are just so fucking good.

I'm hype.

>>29848132
not him but
>alolan dugtrio does everything it does better
alolan dugtrio will be the same type and use earthquake and thats it.It doesn't get sand rush, no access to rapid spin, has less attack, and is frail where you can potentially run a bulky set on excadrill.

>>29848172
>Specs HP Fire off 95 base Special Attack hits everything hard

>>29848075
>Koko can't switch in on grass moves.
If it's a defensive CM set unless Breloom's LO Bullet Seed hits 5 times Koko can just roost up or OHKO with gleam.If it's a sweeper set then Breloom has to hit 4 times.

>>29848208
Specs HP Fire hits everything that doesn't get smacked by Fairy and Electric.

So only Drill and Zone (I think). Fairy/Electric covers a ton.

>>29843538
Good riddance, I hated this thing so much.

>>29848132
>Alola Dugtrio does everything it does better
Doesn't spin, have mold breaker, doesn't hit as hard and doesn't have as much bulk, it doesn't sweep as well with sand and its only boosting move is Hone Claws instead of SD.
>Regular Dugtrio hard counters it now and does it's job better.
It doesn't hard counter Scarf Excadrill.

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>>29847699
>The only real downside to it is that you can no longer predict EQ and get a free switch in
>The only real downside to it is that you can no longer predict EQ and get a free switch in
>The only real downside to it is that you can no longer predict EQ and get a free switch in

>>29848227
>>29848208
Oh and Amoonguss. Still takes SE to HP fire but I doubt it's a 2HKO.

But it can't come in and Spore for free because of the Electric Terrain and HAS to Sludge Bomb the threat in front of it.

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This thing used to burn villages down like Pompeii

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>>29848282
>But it can't come in and Spore for free because of the Electric Terrain
Koko is the hero we need.

>>29848297
It still does, just put a Scarf on it. Works fine for me.

>>29848349
still in uu
also sucker punch

>>29843755
>Salazzle toxicing klefki
>When it can just fire blast and destroy it

>>29848227
>>29848172
this is just like Electivire in early gen 4

>>29848360
I don't understand why they'd give a pokemon thats part fire-type something that lets it posion steel types, seems like it should have been something for other poison types. At least it can poison other poison types.

>>29848172
>mega venusaur
>spe def hippowdon
>amooungus
>gliscor
>magnezone
>excadrill
>all ground/water

>>29848172
koko and kommo-o are both going to be best as special attackers

they have fucking shit physical movesets

>>29848064
Yeah kek sorry I read and found out, pretty cray if you ask me
Rip Tauros hopefully this gen is nice to you.

>>29848388
it also stops heatran switching in for free

Did Reuniclus get harmed or buffed in any way? Will it still be in UU?

>>29848557
nothing, if anything effects it's usefulness it'll be tier changes of other pokemon

>>29848402
Really those are all mons that electric types in general have trouble with. The point is that Tapu Koko outclasses other Electric types, not that Tapu Koko can beat everything. But I'll bite.

>mega venusaur
Brave Bird can 2hko this
>spdef hippo
Grass Knot
>Amoonguss
Brave Bird again
>Gliscor
Just run HP Ice like any normal electric type. Who needs Dazzling Gleam.
>Magnezone
It takes nearly 50% from a Thunderbolt. Roost sets can defeat Scarf Magnezone 1v1
>Excadrill
Really, not having Fighting coverage is the main thing Thundurus has over it.
>all ground/water
Grass Knot inc.

An OU staple like Thundurus really wouldn't fare any better.

>>29848574
Thanks. No news is good news, I guess.

I think a lot of people forget that Talonflame has 126 speed. Of course it's not going to be as good but it's still going to be brave birding and roosting first on most pokemon regardless of the loss of priority on its moves

>>29848402
>mega venusaur
Brave Bird, or momentum out of there with U-Turn or Volt Switch.

>hippo
Hippo walls a lot of things, but yes this is one of them. Can U-Turn out on a physical set.

>amooungus
Loses it's ability to Spore. After enough switch-ins or chip it can die pretty early to BB.

252 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 320-377 (74 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

AND it could setup CMs on this mon too. Roost away the sludge bomb damage.

>gliscor
Correct.

>Zone
Can't switch in, 2HKO. Can only revenge kill with Flash Cannon.

>drill
Same thing 2HKO. Needs to be scarf.

>ground/water is immune to fairy
???

>>29848599
Mega Venusaur takes no damage from the Special set. This is Garchomp-tier analyzing; don't talk about both sets at once. Be fair about their weaknesses instead of acting like it can do everything at once.

>>29847876
Oneshoting rotoms expecting to counter is priceless

>>29848679
Which kinds of retards are you playing with who expect to counter M-Gyarados with a Rotom when it has Mold Breakers?

>>29848648
Well is this M-Saur coming in on the 1.7x or 2.0x Volt Switch or regular before the Mega Evolution? Is this revenge killing...?

>252 SpA Life Orb Electivire Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Venusaur in Electric Terrain: 78-94 (21.4 - 25.8%)

>252 SpA Life Orb Electivire Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur in Electric Terrain: 69-82 (19 - 22.5%)

I'll take doing a quarter to one of the biggest defensive powerhouses and keeping momentum any day.

>>29847998
Accelrock though...

>>29848739
AND not having to worry about Sleep Powder.

>>29848739
I was just responding to you switching between the physical and special set for every single different mon

>this takes no damage from Brave Bird
>but THIS gets 2HKOed by HP Fire

like, fuck, it can't do both at once

>>29848790
>this takes no damage
meant "this gets 2HKOed by"

>>29848790
No shit, but it's more of a 50/50 because both sets look equally as viable.

There's very few Pokemon with that kind of quality.

>>29846944
This is retarded

>>29846575
Correct. Occasionally there are good threads, but as a whole the state of the board is worst than trash. At least they keep making memes, but that's part of the reason of its current state.

>>29848040
(You)

>>29847546
>garchomp would rather outrage
Outrage is not a staple any more simply because it's kind of worthless when other moves have high BP and STAB without being blocked by a whole type.

>>29846827
Gardevoir fell to the bottom with Gen IV and went back to the top as Gen VI gave it fairy typing AND a mega.

>>29848388
I don't understand why its just for the status condition, and doesn't let poison moves hit steel types like Scrappy does for normal/ghost.

>>29849558
What STAB would you recommend that reaches at least 100 BP that isn't walled by a whole type?

Earthquake is walled by Flying types.

>>29846555
>SM buffs some old Pokemon.
>Tauros is not one of them.
It's a shame how weak this raging bull is in current generations.

>>29849767
>Outrage
>not walled by a whole type
you're fucking retarded

>>29847998
He will be better
>two Bug/Fighting mons potentially in OU
>removal of smogonbirde

>>29847022
BS, EQ, HB and Blizzard is my go to.

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Say hello to the new OU king

>>29850004
H̴͕̮̖e̳͉̥̰l̫̼̰̗̳̙̦l̘͇̰̹͓o͇̦,͙̭ ̰̼P̩̳͖̳̗̳o͏r̸̜yg̡͖͉̹̗͍̘o̱̞͜n̙͕̘͙͢-̛̖Z̻͚.̘̳͎

>>29850004
What changed?

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>Diamond Storm can now increase defense by +2
>HP Fire can be run with max speed
>No longer needs to run Protect

I'm ready.

>>29843556
You wish

>>29850047
Z-Conversion gives +1 to every stat

>>29850081
Every stat? Including Evasion?
Citizen Porygon when?

>>29850081
Would you even want to change type, or do you use it with Tri Attack in the first slot purely for the +1 buffs?

>>29846555
Wait till the DP remakes. If they bring back HMs or make them TMs Rock Climb+Sheer Force+Life Orb is as strong as Gen 1 Hyper Beam

>>29850431
I think you would keep Tri-Attack in the first slot unless you want Adaptability Dark Pulse or something

>>29843755
you were right, klefki is UU now

>>29846632
But that's the point. They had to look like some tribal paintings. I like their design, definetely not as ugly as genies

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>already moved to OU today
>20+ boost to attack

Is it time?

>>29846632
but it's clear which one you're looking at. They have entirely different sillhouettes.

>>29850638
time for Arena Trap to get #BANNED probably

>>29844544
Not with 2 recoil moves.

>>29843556
Haunter + Eviolite

>>29847667
What confusion nerf?

>>29850070
Ready to be banned to Uber? Have fun with the UB

>>29844236
>Tapu Koku used Volt Switch

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I heard Protean got nerfed?
How's my boy doin this gen? c'mon man he just got buffed

>>29846827
amoonguss and tangrowth went from BW RU to ORAS OU without any significant buffs, just meta shifts.
same for quagsire, but he eventually dropped.
obviously chansey from DP to BW.
gastrodon from DP to BW just by getting storm drain.

>>29851675
Well it's pretty good in Ubers and AG so no complaints.

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Please don't ban Greninja again

>>29847330
You know, Talonflame could just Swords Dance and kill M-Gyarados next turn.

>>29850070
>No longer needs to run Protect
why?

>>29851873
You get the speed boost on the same turn you mega now.

>>29843538
>Replace Brave Bird with Acrobatics

All smiles

>>29851905
>Flare Blitz
Might just start running Flame Charge while at it.

>>29851896
what was GF thinking?
>what is lopunny
>what is manectric
>what is gardevoir
>what is alakazam
>what is aerodactyl
>what is metagross
>what is gallade
>actually nerfing mega heracross and mega garchomp

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>>29851930
>Using Flare Blitz

>>29851937
Gotta buff Masuda's big boy Lucario

>>29851937
It's much more intuitive this way is what they were thinking

>>29851937
At least now Banette isn't a complete shitmon.

>>29851873
>>29851896
>>29851937
>>29852031
>>29852016
>>29852000
So legitimate question here: does M-Sable keep Prankster on the turn it megas, does it lose it or does it keep it but goes to the speed bracket of the mega?

>>29852110
Loses Prankster and becomes slow as fuck

>>29852125
Confirmed or speculating?

>>29852141
Confirmed

M-Garchomp & M-Heracross are nerfed too because of it

Only abilities like Trace/Intimidate are used before Mega Evolving

>>29851737
Too strong for PU but bad in NU :(

>>29852179
Fuck, I hoped it would be delayed to the second turn, like Chloro the turn sun from M-CharY kicks in.

>>29848746
It's going straight to RU, which is sad considering it had an amazing design. Neither Lycanroc gets Earthquake or Ice Fang, two moves it desperately needed, and it's base stats make it too frail to do anything. It's a shittier Excadrill with a lot more speed a the cost of everything else

This gen has some of the best designs in the series, but GF decided to cuck everything about these mons in terms of spreads and movepools.

>>29847432
Or maybe because it wasn't broken in the first place and only people who were whiny 1100 that only used fast sweepers complained about something that gets easily walled/checked by several Pokemon that fully evolved Pokemon shouldn't.

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This little guy will be king of UU, and there's nothing you can do to stop it

>>29852553
It's not broken but it was not healthy for the metagame.

>>29843624

Um no, it isn't. No one was using Gengar as their ground resist anyway, nor should they have been(unless you're bad at the game)

>>29843755

>Corrosion ability

You people do realize Salazzle is also a fire type right?

>>29843538
Well, Talonflame can use priority Brave Bird once but he can still priority roost

>>29847330
Why does the Gyarados just use Waterfall? It OHKOs Talon with Waterfall without boosts and if it went on as regular Gyarados before, it will only be 3HKOed by bravest bird, sometimes a 4HKO

>252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 392-464 (131.9 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>-1 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 106-126 (32 - 38%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO

But I do get what you are saying.

>>29851737
Protean stays the same. Stop spreading false shit.

>>29852791
You predict a switch. If they switch it's a free DD and time for carnage.

Gale Wings creates a 50/50. Now it won't anymore.

>>29852776
>he can still priority roost
>gales wings only works at full HP

pick one

>>29847411
What do you mean? You can play the VGC format on PSD. It's just that Singles is easier to play so it's more popular thus they focus on it.

>>29852675
Why? Something like Stag was able to remove any Pokemon you so choose if your opponent didn't have godly prediction and if you had the opportunity (which is generally easy to get), so you pretty much removed the stallbreaker that was going to destroy your stall team, or you got rid of the wall that was going to wall your sweeper.
All Talonflame did was make set-up sweepers that didn't resist or have decent physical bulk less viable, which is like Volcanrona and a few others. And even then, even things that are doubly weak to Brave Bird are still OU like M-Heracross and Breloom.

>>29844159

That is exactly what they will say. If you couldn't find one way(out of the 100s of ways) to check talonflame, then yes, you are bad at the game. Also, you must not play any competitive if you believe volcarona was the only thing Talonflame held in check. You can literally beat that pokemon the same way you beat talonflame, with the same exact move. Talonflame also checked the likes of zard y with its spdef set, as well as stuff like serperior. It also beat stuff like mega sableye with its bulk up set and set up on cancerous stuff like clefable with ease. Not only that, but on offense, it takes some of the pressure off Landorus in checking the likes of stuff like Lopunny and Metagross. So how about you learn a little something about the game before you open your mouth

>>29847411
>For the love of fuck Doubles is now the primary VGC format
>now
It has been for the past 10 years m8.

>>29847206
>>29847223
>>29847225
Is there proof of this? I want confirmation.
No, honestly. People get modified Pokemon in via Pokegen and they go through Bank just fine. Where exactly is the algorithm that changes the ability?

>>29847165
Is HP Ground instead of Giga Drain on Volcarona to meme on Heatran viable?

>>29846998
>Gengar's gone
It's not though
>That new Water type's synergy with Ferrothorn fucks it over.
>the thing that dies from a single EQ fucks it over
ok
>The new Bug/Fighting Cockroach eats it alive.
what is sand rush
>More and more Pokemon with recovery have Defog now like Mantine and Pelliper exists to set weather that hard fuck it.
cool, more pokemon exist to get memed on by rock slide

you're retarded

>>29853223
Each ability is stored in a slot, and your mon always has a certain slot selected

It happened in gen 6 but I'm not sure which mon it happened to. I think it was Chandelure.

>>29853223
It's not an algorithm, every Pokemon has 3 ability slots, 2 normal ones and one for Hidden Abilities.
Levitate is in slot 1. Gen 7 changes slot 1 from Levitate to Cursed Body. Every Gengar now has Cursed Body in Gen 7.

>>29853272
Gengar's going to be trapped in BL, and drop to UU next gen. It's time is Ouver.

>>29853270
Not worth running a move for 1 Pokemon.

But like, when in your tier there's only ONE hard counter to you it's pretty easy to build your team to counter that one thing.

Just double into Dugtrio and pick the Tran for free. Tho balloon will rise in useage.

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>>29850070
>>Diamond Storm can now increase defense by +2
>44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 180-216 (74.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

why

>>29847998
He's probably safe, but accelrock is huge potential threat, although i doubt it'll be OU
>>29848150
>>29848178
You know the attack buff applies to both of them right Anon?
>>29848172
I'm a little worried it'll get banned

>>29850080
>This
Why do people think Gengar is going to fall below OU. Levitate wasn't the main reason Gengar has been OU, unlike Talonflame with Gale Wings. The main reason Gengar has been a top tier Pokemon since Gen 1 is because of its large move pool and great stats and Ghost-typing giving it 2 immunities. Levitate was just icing on the cake. Cursed Body will be useful on Substitute sets.

>>29850663
Naw, Smogfags will just ban Dugtrio. Duggy is gonna fuck their precious stall play style

>>29853685
>accelrock
It's not a threat at all. Only Lycanroc has it and its movepool sucks really bad

>>29853696
Yes, but Levitate also provided an immunity to a supereffective weakness. Not to mention since then, there have been a ton of new mons that use Earthquake as coverage or STAB, with notable mentions being LandoT, Excadrill, and Garchomp. Gengar could switch into those things before and do damage. Now it can't. And even now in Gen 6, it's struggling to keep its place in OU

I doubt Gengar will fall hard, but it will fall. I can see it doing a brief stint in UU before being locked in BL.

Also Cursed Body doesn't work with Substitute.

>>29853970
Excadrill can hit Gengar with Earthquake because of Mold Breaker. Even it Drill is running Sand Rush Gengar will be OHKO'ed by Life Orb boosted Iron Head. Land-T always carries Knock Off weather its the Scarf set or defensive set. I'll give you Garchomp, but you still have to watch out for the rare Outrage Chomp. Yes Gengar will have to be a lot more careful now, but it will still be OU

>>29847330
>talonflame used will-o-wisp

>>29854174
No need to be in denial anon, it was bound to drop anyway. Be glad it didnt get fucked as hard as Bravest Birb

>>29846555

Can he learn body slam again now? I want it on my sheer force one.

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>>29847667

>Confusion nerf
>TFW Dragonite user.