tell me the pros and cons of Sun and Moon /vp/

Pros
>No HMs
>Music is great
>More vibrant and memorable than XY

Cons
>Shitmon galore
>Little to no post game

>>29835397
Really there's not a good postgame? Fuckin hell GF not again.

>>29835397
Don't forget a lack of easy EV training and no National Dex.

>>29835359
Pros
>No HMs

Cons
>Few Alola forms
>Every generic trainer class has 2 pokemon tops
>Extreme handholding
>Cutscenes every 5 minutes
>Catching pokemon that summon other pokemon can be tedious as fuck
>Battle Tree only has 9 non generic trainers
>Most alola pokemon have shit stats
>Way over the top plot with the most predictable plot twist
>Every character sucks your dick
>No way to easy EV train
>The region and game is linear and most routes look bad

>>29835493
>no National Dex
This is probably the worst thing GF has done ever.

Yes, I know the National Dex will be in Bank and that Bank is cheap as fuck. That's not the problem.

The problem is that they took away one of the core aspects of the series, the Pokedex completion, from the games to put it in a different app. This is wrong in so many levels because it may encourage them to do the same with other features in the future, which would effectively turn pokemon in a mobile-like game infested with microtransactions or excuses to make the player pay more money to enjoy the full experience.

I don't mind paid dlc, and I don't mind paying for an onlin storage service. But having to pay for such a basic feature every game from gen 2 onwards has had... that's just awful.

>>29835466
Not Emerald tier postgame which was just the ai cheating. There's a post game about as much as rs had.

>>29835524
Damn oemga ruby will be the last good pokemon games

Usually when people shit post about a generation of new games being the worst, I tend to roll my eyes at the typical cynical point of view vp holds on a pedestal of hatred.

But I honestly cant blame anyone for how disappointing this new gen has turned out. While I enjoy the idea of trying to go a bit deeper into a story and mixing up how the games play slightly, Sun and Moon reek with the GF's lack of true effort into the world they try to create and mechanics that everyone enjoyed.

Out of the 70 or so new pokemon, only a small handful of them show any promise of being decent, with most somehow thinking that Hoenn was onto something with its slow frail attackers. Toucannon and Vikavolt both have these incredible attack stats which is pretty god, but Toucannon suffers from medicore defenses and speed, and Vikavolt will be lucky to get an attack off with its shitfest speed. The starters are pretty lacking in decent stat distribution and movepool with maybe the exception of maybe Decidueye (who for some reason decided not only to be a grass/ghost, but to become the 3rd in a line up of 4 grass/ghost mons, who are all PHYSICAL ATTACKERS?). Even then its not that impressive.

Alolan forms were a massive waste of potential. Barley any to make the gimmick worth it, and those that are available have pretty much identical stats. Alolan Raichu is a huge slap in the face with no access to surf.

The removal of both useful ways to EV train makes no sense. Super Training was slow and tedious, but if we had to lose Horde Battles, was it really too much to keep it along with Amie and customization? Im assuming hordes are out because the game cant handle more then 2 pixels on the screen moving at a time, but this I was slightly able to forgive in x and y. But after ORAS came out with same laggy battles, I figured Sun and Moon would be the time for refining their work. Instead, they just cut out anything that includes more then 4 pokemon.

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My favorite pokémon is not in it, personally I will not be playing it.

>>29837662
>Alolan Raichu is a huge slap in the face with no access to surf.

No fucking way, I had no idea. That's savage.

I've got Sun preordered, steelbook + figure and I'll still buy it and play it but wow. That is...there's no excuse for that.

Not including the national dex is so bad too. A huge part of the postgame is being able to go to previous areas and catch new Pokemon that weren't there before, only being able to transfer them is...shocking honestly and the fact that you can ONLY transfer them with Bank is a blatant cash grab. I don't really mind GF taking my money because I love their games but wow, that's too blatant for me to turn a blind eye to.

>Instead, they just cut out anything that includes more then 4 pokemon.

This is why triple battles are removed too I bet. This really is quite a bad sign, I hope the next games are on the Switch and we can just forget 3DS hardware optimization.

Honestly I loved X/Y but hated OR/AS. I've never been a competitive player but it's way sad that my favorite Pokemon from this Gen are basically going to be useless should I ever find myself wanting to battle.

Ugh, I love GameFreak but this really is bad. I hope the gaming press points out these faults and gives the game a low score. There are normally post-release interviews with GF so I hope we find out more about their choices to do this stuff. Maybe the closing of PLC is to accommodate something completely new that'll open on release day.

>>29835359
Pros: NOTHING

absolutely garbage

>>29837991
>No fucking way, I had no idea. That's savage.
Nearly every new Pokemon has a barren movepool or is missing one single crucial move that would make rise them from shitmon to very good.

I can only think of Tapu Fini, Drampa, Marshadow and surprisingly Mimikyu as alolamons whose movepools are not shit either competitivewise or flavorwise.

It's a fucking mess. I seriously have no hopes for better games anymore. People kept saying "I-It'll get better with wait for Z" with XY "I-It'll get better the next remake will get better" with ORAS and then generation 6 passed by and nothing got better and we are on generation 7 and things are still looking the same and perhaps arguably worse. I'm not gonna believe any deluded "I-It'll get better next time anymore", not for a third time. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me thrice, I'm a fucking goddamned retard and deserve to die slowly and painfully.

What hurts me more is that I still love this franchise. And that's exactly why it sucks, because I like it. I wouldn't be this sad and disappointed if I didn't like it.

>>29838159
>What hurts me more is that I still love this franchise. And that's exactly why it sucks, because I like it. I wouldn't be this sad and disappointed if I didn't like it.

I know exactly how you feel. Honestly the only silver lining I can think of here is that it won't get in the way of me clearing the rest of my 3DS backlog. That's a shit thing to say, really. I wanted this to steal my life for a good few months.

Aaaaaah fuck, this is so disappointing.

>>29835708
>But having to pay for such a basic feature every game from gen 2 onwards has had... that's just awful.
?

>>29837991
The big problem just ends up being that GF has no real competition. There are games about catching monsters and battling them like Yokai Watch.

Ive never played Yokai Watch myself, but I do realize its fans. However it hasn't reached the world wide phenomenon that is pokemon yet. When a new pokemon game comes out, everyone is hyped, everyone is excited, each new coro coro having everyone on the heat of their seats. Its a corporate monster with a long history and no one really able to fight back, and that is kind of a big issue.

Essential it just means they can do whatever they want and they really wont lose anything, no matter how stupid the choices they make may be.

I dont even know if they test how useful a pokemon will be or not. I mean considering they were shocked that people used special attacking Aegislash, despite giving it a monstrous special attack stat and special attack moves, that basically tells me they have no understanding of their own game.

Some people say that not every pokemon is meant to be good, and I can understand that to a slight extent, but really whats the point of something like Pyukumuku? Its entire strategy was based around letting the opponent hit it from high health, and what did they do? Gave it basically no HP, but skyrocketed its defenses. Basically ensuring you will never one hit the poor bastard, and instead receive the most minimal damage possible.

The diving bell spiders stats are awful, and despite being a spider gets no access to sticky web.

Not to mention all the new pokemon are apparently extremely rare so anyone who actually managed to avoid spoilers may end up missing a good portion of the new pokemon with no idea they could of even captured them several routes back.

And Z moves are looking worse and worse requiring you to put a useless move like splash on your pokemon that you could just use sword dance for a similar effect for. Its all truly awful choices.

>>29837991
Are you aware that you can catch non-regional Pokemon through the whole game, right?

No, of course you aren't.

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>>29838277
It's a such a big bummer.

I played Super Mystery Dungeon some months ago, this was the first spin-off I had ever played, and I was completely blown away by nearly every single aspect of it. It's like there was actual care and thought put into it. And it saddens me to see something I love in the hands of such an inept, lazy and incompetent company as Gamefreak and know it'll never be able to truly be better than the last time.

>>29835493
>Lack of easy EV training

No hordes?

>>29838631
Nope.

Super Training was removed as well.

And then people wonder why people inject.

>>29838671
>Super Training was removed as well.

For what purpose?

>>29838671
Are you guys sure? Something tells me you are all missing something. That doesn't bother me though I'll just EV train the old way.
>>29835708
Don't be retarded. They already announced pokemon Bank to be compatible with Sun and Moon in 3 months. You really think there won't be a National dex with an update? And knowing nintendo recently there might be more that comes with this update.

>>29837662
>nothing but complaints about """competitive""" Pokemon
You don't actually give a shit about the games, you only care about your next three years of circlejerking on Showdown.

>>29838901
Oh yeah you're right!!!! Maybe they'll patch in an extra 50 new pokemon too lol!!

>>29838991
Don't be fucking retarded. New shit pertains to maybe trainers to help with EV training that battle you as much as you want or something like this. Best case scenario would be a new island or something.

I don't believe that Gamefreak is going to stop supporting this game in the way of new things given how other Nintendo franchises have been treated lately. Its all conjecture and hopeful thinking but these games seem important to them.

>>29838982
Ahh the old, "If i want to see more reasonable move sets and base stats, im a smogon/showdown fag" arguement.

Fact is, I havn't touched anything highly pokemon competitive related in a long long time. I think maybe back in fourth gen I got into it and had a lot of fun.

Fact is, I care about these kind of things because I love the world that Gamefreak has created. Its why I keep coming back to the old tired formula and usually clumsy decisions they make.

I like the world of pokemon, I like the idea of having such a massive selection of pokemon to choose from and befriend to make your own personalized game, and whenever I replay a game I always try and use pokemon I've never touched.

Hell my favorite pokemon is Magcargo, and you dont get much worse then Magcargo.

I bring up stats and movepools up because they should be related to the pokemons design and lore. There is no reason Alolan Raichu shouldnt of recieved Surf. Its a neat move to have, it matches the pokemons idea of surfing on its own tail constantly. Yeah its not in the water while surfing, but thats half the fun of pokemon.

I dont think there should be anything wrong with enjoying a pokemon because its useful, and its not like im asking for unreasonable shit like an ice type to learn flamethrower just to cover steel types. I just like the idea of the creators diving into the creativity of what they can give a pokemon to make it different or useful, it makes it feel like they really care about the world their creating. Instead you get things like Flareon who couldn't learn a decent physical type fire move until several years later, or Unfeazent who still cant learn a stab flying move past 60 power that doesn't take two turns to charge. Its those simple choices that really make me scratch my head and feel like they dont care about the pokemon they are making.

I dont need everything to be able to take Salamence, but atleast try and make it look like you know how your game works.

>>29838901
>They already announced pokemon Bank to be compatible with Sun and Moon in 3 months. You really think there won't be a National dex with an update
There will be a National Dex update. But it will be for Bank, not for SM.

>Cons
Alolan forms

All 1st gen. Do little to improve them. It's a gimmick that sucked before it was even released.

>>29838428
>I don't know what the national dex is

>>29839714
Because you clearly do.

E4 theme is nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeL--5yCdDA

>>29835524
>>Catching pokemon that summon other pokemon can be tedious as fuck

This getting the greenlight is fucking beyond me.
You would think some testplayers would get annoyed.

where is the move tutor in moon?

>>29839821
>nice
You are being extremely kind

>>29839962
>testplayers.

Anon they just do QA and expect everyone o swallow whatever, if they did an actual testing or focus grouping, they'd not discard so many good features every gen,

I seriously can't believe they are so up their own ass they thought removing super training to replace it with mobile tier time sinks that still aren't good enough would make people NOT inject

>>29838982

I don't care about competitive but he's right. There's a difference between being a smogonfag and wanting to stand a chance when you're battling someone.

There's just no excuse for this, I barely care about stats and I'm annoyed by it.