Competitive this gen is all over the place

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> Liquid Voice lacks the damage bonus the "-ate" abilities get
> Primarina's hidden ability is completely worthless
Why is Gamefreak so retarded?

>>29805525
>wanting Primashit to be viable
Fuck off. The only mistake is that they fucked up Decidueye's stats.

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>competitive
>Mattering

>>29805525
It gets Hyper Voice which is a spread move, why are you retarded?

Also pretty sure we don't know if it boosts damage yet

>>29805292
What's this? A pic for ants?

>>29805581
If it did boost damage, it would say so. Just like the -ate abilities do in Gen 7.

>>29805581
HV can replace surf, has higher BP and doesn't hit your allies in dubs/trips

>>29805559
The only mistake is the fucking speed state of EVERYTHING.

>Minior can't get statused

It keeps getting better.

>>29805525
It's not that useless

>>29805660
HV hits through substitute. Not much but it's something.

Does Tangela/Tangrowth get Tangling Hair? Not that it'll be better than Regeneration but I'm still curious.

IF it got a 30% damage boost, hyper voice would be a terrifyingly powerful and accurate water move with BP over 150 then rendering hydro pump useless.

>>29806051
nope

does anyone have a full list of buffs/ability changes? I know about the 3 doggo nerf and gengar's nerf but I'm wondering if anything else got a good ability besides pelliper.

>>29805559
Being this butthurt over the possibility of Primarina being the best starter.

Your faggot ass is probably just about in tears from all the disappointment.

>>29806051
Only Dugtrio

>>29805964
>>29805660
>>29805581
It also now get's STAB with those attacks. It's not a killer ordeal, but it will do it OK if it can find a place where it'll not get gibbed before attacking.

It seems like Sun and Moon were balanced more around doubles.

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>>29805292
Could I get a link to that list you used in that ant picture OP?

>>29806051
Fuck! Thats a missed opportunity! I'd like to honorably mention jynx missing out on that ability as well. Not that I want dry skin to be replaced.

>>29806178
VGC is the main focus of pokemon
but i welcome nerfs like gengar, smogonbird.

>>29805292
Sheet link?

>>29805581
I'm also P sure it gets Boomburst.Maybe.I don't know.If that's true,it's gonna wreck shit.And if you think that the speed stat is the problem,use a Speed Swap Ribomlee.

>>29806158
It is the best actually, it's the only starter with stats that make sense.

>>29806248
>low hp
>low speed
>That defense stat

this is the best joke i've heard all day.

>>29806248
It's also completely outclassed by every water and fairy type ever in every aspect. At least Decidueye has a niche that's guaranteed to put on the highest tiers of OU.

>>29806263
It's meant to be used as a special wall,not a physical one.

>>29805660
Too bad le 60 speed means it's dead as fuck before getting to move once.

B-b-but my waifu is g-good in trick room guys...!!

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>>29805292

>>29806283
What a shit wall it is, dying in a single hit to any attack that's thrown at it. Even special attacks will pulverize that piece of shit.

>>29806146
Gigalith got sandstream, ice cream got snow warning, torkoal got drought, beartic got slush rush.

>>29806222
sorry to dissapoint anon but it doesn't get boomburst

>>29805885
>shell smash white herb acrobatics
best rock

>>29806268
Now this is delusional. Decidueye is going to be RU.

Who the fuck gets steel worker? Or Berserk even?

>>29805525
it gets stab you retard

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>>29806283
>It's meant to be used as a special wall

Anon you can't keep torturing yourself like this.

>>29806268
Milotic and Tapu Fini hit just as hard as Primarina?! Hold on, let me go check.

>>29806263
People laugh now but if Primarina had 100 HP and 100 defense with that kind of typing you'd all be bitching for nerfs.

>>29806304
Nice bait
How long did you spend digging in the mud for it?

>>29806263
>>29806268
I didn't say it was good, it's just the better of the 3, that's how terrible this gen is.

>>29806304
Where's your proof that it'll die to ANYTHING thrown at it?you have none.
INB4 Sunkern used Leech Seed

>>29806335
Dhelmise (anchormon) gets steel worker and Drampa gets berserk

>>29806347
Fuck no I'd ride that train like I'd ride primarina.

>>29806268
Kek.

Ok.

>>29806338
Are you blind? Primarina is obviously meant to be used as a special wall.

Primarina is like the only starter whose niche/purpose/role is obvious from the get-go.

>>29806146
The beasts never had access to those abilities. Bibarel also got swords dance to go with simple and jet which might be fun. Probably around diggersby level or below.

>>29806347
That special attack is completely useless since Primarina will be OHKO'd the moment it switches in.

>>29806388
You keep saying that but where are your calculations.

Everybody keeps saying this but nobody is showing any kind of proof.

>>29806388
By what

>>29806388
Yeah ok.You don't just switch in on Super effective attacks you retard.80 HP isn't horrible,it can work.

So did Alola Pokémon fuck up stats for previous gen Pokémon?

>>29806388
You'll be surprised of the stats of some annoying walls.

>>29806480
Not exactly fuck up, but they didn't do much to help them.

>>29806480
Most things have actually been improved

Gengar lost Levitate for Cursed Body which gives it an extra weakness but he's still so versatile he'll be fine

The only one that really got bent over the table and drilled by GF's dick was Talonflame

>>29806186
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yx61tXCHTp9PqvluxdN1Xi2zcUxATI1f3uS7UHtpeQ0/htmlview?sle=true#

>>29806539
Kek

>>29805292
Galvantula better have its HA changed to Galvanize.

>>29806114
>90*1.3
>150
learn2math

>>29806268
Decidueye is going to be ass. Incineroar is actually the one likely to see the most competitive use, as intimidate + fake out is really good for doubles.

Would stats for Pokémon change when you transfer older mons to sun and moon?

>>29806615
Yes, just like the gen 6 stat and ability retcons worked.

>>29806594
>90*1.3*1.5
>not over 150
It's including STAB, too.

>>29806614
>doubles

And that's about it.

>>29806649
Factoring in STAB when describing the base power of a move is asinine. Plus
>water move with BP over 150
sounds like you're saying it has 150 power and gets STAB on top of that

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 210-247 (69.7 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

31 IVs in everything but attack no EVs in anything with a Hardy nature.

Dugtrio is fucking beast

>Tangled Hair and Focus Sash means he will get one speed drop
>Already fast so turn one hone claws
>Turn two, sweep
>If he dies your opponent is slower than dick so it doesnt matter that Gen 7s meta is sub 60 speed

>>29806804
>not investing anything in hp

>>29806832
If you give it 252 EVs in HP then it still gets 2HKO'd.

If you also give it 252 EVs in defense then there's a 4.7% chance to 2HKO.

>>29806804
So if you switch it on a dragon move you win

>>29806878
Yup. So if anything Primarina would be a check for Garchomp's OU Offensive Stealth Rock set.

>Primarinas shit because it gets rekt by physical attacks
>Whats Chansey/Blissey?

>>29806862
252 in hp and defense seems like it could be a decent set. Maybe run it with leftovers.
How does primarina's Dazzling gleam fair against chomp?

>>29806937
>no recovery
>shallow support movepool

>>29805292
>Beast boost increases highest stat
>Have multiple stats that are equal and highest
>Pheromosa increases speed, strength and special attack if you EV it right
This is good

>>29806862
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 144-169 (39.5 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

>>29806980
Doesn't it get moonblast ?

>>29807073
Even better

>>29807049
>Switch into whoremaid
>Chomp uses sneaky stones
>Chomp switches out
>Primarina uses ineffectual attack
>It was ineffectual

>>29807037
Sadly it probably works like download, where if the stats are tied it still only boosts one.

>>29807196
But which one, then?

>>29807153
>chomp switches out
And who the fuck is switching into a potential moonblast/hyper voice/ice beam from a base 126 Sp.A ??

>>29807279
Toxapex is

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>>29805559
>being this buttblasted about Primarina

>>29807325
I love how useful it is compared to the other starters
I love pretty things

>>29807317
And ??

There aren't many things that can, most of OU are weak to this coverage.

inb4 Primarina is trash because Toxapex might wall it.

>>29807401
What do you mean And ??
It walls it, it's powerful in its own right, oh and poison is SE against fairy pansy Primarina.

>>29807465
Then you build your team well and pack a poison killer?

>>29807465
I meant and what else besides Toxapex.

>>29807523
I haven't been keeping up but I think Ferrothorn is also part of the new walling set, which also walls Primarina.

>>29805525
It can hit Ghost-types through subs.

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>>29806268
>Decidueye
>OU

>0 SpA Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 158-188 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0+ Atk Gible Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 135-159 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
>0 SpA Vanillite Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 138-164 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO
>0 Atk Pancham Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 139-165 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO
>0 Atk Cranidos Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 166-196 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0 Atk Pawniard Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 156-186 (52.5 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>0 Atk Pidgey Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 176-210 (59.2 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>29805559
The only mistake is that they fucked up Incineroar's stats. It should have had 110+ speed.
Now it has Scrafty's niche at least.

>>29806158
Primarina has no shot at being the best of the trio. Its move pool is completely shallow for what it's meant to do. I can't wait for the sealfags to be btfo for yet another time.

>>29807542
Yes. It does. That's why I said "not many", I didn't say it was invincible.

>>29807596
It's the first starter to ever lose speed and not be the fastest after its pre-evos were.
But hey it gained HP so that's something.

>>29806283
Then just use Florges anon. Or Suicune or Tapu Fini. There is literally no reason to use Primarina. It could have seen some use if there wasn't 700 other water types that do what it can do better. Even Empoleon is better.

>>29807684
As it should be. It shouldn't have a chance to be competitively better than based Decidueye.

>>29806655
...yeah.
If any of the three find a good niche I'll be pleasantly surprised, but a use in doubles is unironically the best they can expect.

>>29805568

Well, seeing as there's once again no worthwhile postgame, what the hell else is there else to do?

>>29807635
When were we BTFO the first time?

I don't recall anyone thinking Primarina would be fast.

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how u want your stall senpai?

>>29807635
>rambling about sealfags

You clearly have some pent up anger. Take a break for your own well being.

>>29807706
Inceneroar might see some use, particularly in doubles.

>>29807049
Wow. It literally needs full investment to take a hit, leaving nothing else for it to do.

>>29807429
It'll be like "...And then it gets Brave Birded to death" last gen for every Pokémon.

>>29807635

Maybe it won't be the best, but it sure as hell won't be the worst: >>29807582

>>29807797
It one shots chomp with ice beam or moonblast though. Can someone do the calcs on that?

is rock poison the worst typing imaginable besides maybe rock normal?

>>29807706
Funny enough, Incineroar can live longer than Decidueye, which means better chance to actually do something, since we both know they're not outspeeding shit.

>>29807797
First off Garchomp is a monster.
Also nobody is switching their primarina on a physical attacker, and Garchomp of all things, that's why physical walls exist.

>>29807754
>no recovery
>no utility
Shit stallmon. Just use it as pivot/wallbreaker or Autotomize sweeper.

>>29807883
Ice/Rock RIP Aurorus
Rock is almost as shit of a defensive typing as Ice is.

>>29807883
it would be good if it had a way to deal with steel types

it would also be good if talonflame still existed since it resists brave bird, flare blitz, and u-turn

sadly neither of those things are true, but at least it has stealth rock i guess

>>29807582
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 120-142 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 126-149 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 126-150 (31.9 - 38%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 144-170 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 162-192 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- 47.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
All of these without investment vs with investment.
Get btfo.

>>29807862
Obviously it would. That's not the point. The point it that you just wasted all that investment into HP and Defense to make it a punching bag.

>>29807919
X1 to fairies meme room intimidate user.

>>29806738
STAB modifies base power you autismo.

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>>29806158
>Thinking Primatranny is the best starter

>>29808224
>1- keldeo likes to run specs and that 2OK and if it's scarfed u can't switch owl into icy wind with stealth rocks on field
>2- lando runs knock off + u-turn
>3- nobody is switching slowbro in on a grass ghost type
>4- nobody is switching hippo on a grass type
>5- scarfed ttar is common

>>29807840
First >>29808224 read this
Secondly, a bunch of LC mons 2HKOing Decidueye, even tho some of them actually have better offenses than OUmons already proves nothing. Especially if you don't put investments into any stats. I could show calcs of Hoopa-U getting ass raped by LCmons with U-Turn, but that wouldn't prove anything about Hoopa-U being bad. Shit like this especially pisses me off because it ignores so much about it and just say "Hur Dur. LCmons can kill it." Despite it being try for many OUmons themselves and say the same bullshit

>252+ Atk Choice Band Flash Fire Ponyta Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar in Sun: 250-295 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>Implying Tyranitar will be OU when has 86% of its health gone by a Ponyta AND when it RESISTS IT. HAHA Tyranitarfags BTFO
I checked calcs and Decidueye does decently well in OU, but it will not likely be OU. There is more to Pokemon than just stats you know?

>>29806289

Do you happen to know Azumarills base speed?

Decidueye will be a solid UU mon, is Spirit SHackle will be as good in practice as it is on paper.

In fact all the starters this gen are solid UU mons, if not RU.

>>29808672
Unlikely, as Primarina is NU at the very best.

>>29808701

Ebin.

>>29808701
Doubt it, that's a godly typing and it's movepool and stats is far from bad

>>29806335
If Gurdurr doesn't get Steelworker I will go Berserk.

>>29806332
It's possible, I can see it slipping into UU tho

is there a list of all the move changes?

>>29808701
the fuck are you talking about

slap an assault vest on it and you can get 364 HP, 383 sp.atk, 402 sp.def. plus it has a great movepool with moonblast, scald, energy ball, psychic, ice beam, hydro pump, etc

it will shit any specially-oriented water types, any specially-oriented dragons, and so forth. plenty of special attackers can only 3hko it at best, and it can even take a tail glow energy ball from manaphy

it's UU at worst