So what tier is he dropping to?

What happened to Gale Wings?

>>29785427
PU

>>29785427
hopefully pu

He's PU, easily.

>>29785427
Probably NU or RU (the latter being unlikely).

>>29785444
Only works if talon is at full health

>>29785427
RU
too much utility for anything lower

I can see it in RU. Offensively its typing is solid, it's still very fast, and the movepool quite good.
Although I'll admit I have no knowledge of the RU meta, I assume there are a lot or rock types around there.

>>29785427
What ever Swellow will be in this Gen. Considering Swellow has a base 75 Boomburst with scrappy now, it will probably be RU. It still has a fast will-o-wisp I guess.

>>29785472
and not in the same tier as lycancock

>>29785469
Thanks.

>>29785427
Definitely sub-UU. RU is probably the most likely tier, though.

>>29785469
>gets in on stealth rock
>lose gale wings
>use fire blitz
>lose gale wings
>use priority brave bird thanks to gale wings
>lose gale wings

jesus christ why did they have to cuck it so hard?

>>29785427
I hope it's never used. I hate that fucking bird

RU or NU prob as a lead

>>29785571
>why
is this a serious question

Egg incubator tier

>>29785469
ouch

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>>29785624
yes it is because it wasn't THAT broken to need THIS MUCH of a nerf
do you realize how many changes they did to the meta JUST to fuck with talonflame?
>created a mythical that creates a terrain preventing priority (and even created an item that prolongues its turns' number)
>not one but two pokemons with abilities preventing priority, one of which hard counters talonflame
>a fucking rock type priority move
>made gale wings a defeatist-tier shit ability

up until the last point all those nerfs were ok, they hindered talonflame without making it shit.
but the latter completely ruined it.
GF once again shows how fucking retarded they are: their idea of balance is making something too good (but keep in mind that talonflame's days of terror of early XY are long gone) completely unaviable

>>29785748
>it wasn't THAT broken
invalidating Grass, Bug, and Fighting isn't broken? okay

>>29785974
the meta adapted
nowadays talonflame wasn't that big of a problem (at least in singles)

>>29785427
It's main Niche left is as an anti-lead. It's speed stat might be enough to drag it out of PU but don't expect it to be above NU.

>>29785974
You act like Keldeo, Scizor, Serperior, and Loppuny weren't among the best Pokemon in the game regardless of Talonflame's presence.

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>>29785427
It's a fucking disaster.
NU or RU at best. it's really, really fucking sad. People here are going to really miss it and blame GF for being retarded. screencap me.
I will miss you, brave bird. You are still my favorite pokemon. You were too good for the scrubs who kept crying about you. I'm sorry i couldn't protect you. Rest in peace, Bravest Bird.
;_;

>>29786132
Yes, mons with a lot going for them aside from their shit defensive typing.

Serperior without its HA would still be a shitmon without Talonflame's existence.

>>29786439
They really screwed up. Making such a nerf it's going to backfire for sure.

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>>29786439
>muh braviest bird

>>29785427
UU

>>29786561
and talonflame without gale wings would have been a shitmon too, your point?

RU, a priority brave bird/acrobatics right off the bat (assuming no rocks up) still has its uses.

>>29786561
So are you saying those shitmons would be shit Talonflame or not and good Pokemon would be good Talonflame or not? Amazing discovery lad.

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>>29786439
Look at this fagot

>>29786045
If by "adapted" you mean "every OU and VGC team in every year had a Talonflame", then sure.

>>29785748
>a fucking rock type priority move
Which doesn't fuck with it at all because the doggo is much slower than it. Gale Wings needed a nerf at least this big because holy shit why did anyone think that having a priority move with 120+STAB BP was fine?
Oh if only Knock Off had gotten nerfed too.
>97 BP move that removes the target's item, then becomes 65 BP
There was a fucking reason why it had 20 BP before, and it was just so it could avoid Taunt. A move that fucking removes the item of what it hits (unless it's a mega stone) has no business being that strong.

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MFW it drops to RU and I can use it finally as a tailwind suicide lead without have smogonfags saying that it isn't good.

>>29786761
t. someone who knows jackshit about competitive

I bet you also think CB is still it's most used set.

>>29785427
RU with Gengar. Darkrai to OU

Is there a showdown equivalent with the new mons?

>>29785571
HAHAH Talonfags btfo

>>29786791
>Gengar
>falling from OU just because it isn't immune to Ground anymore
HA HA HA HA HA

>>29786812
Pretty sure they can't update Showdown or anything similar yet because of the same reason Serebii can't update his site with the new info.

>>29786791
>gengar RU

LMAO, that thing is maybe dropping to UU just to go straight back to OU after it rapes everything
worst case scenario, and that's forcing it a lot, it's going to be BL

>darkrai OU

exacly my post before but swap UU for OU and BL for ubers

>>29786761
I don't have the percentages but I'm sure it isn't even in the top 6, maybe 10

>>29786789
If you don't understand that Bravest Birb and Megamon weren't the DEFINITION of overcentralizing, there's not much I can do.

You could throw either on a team without any sort of strategy except spam PuP and Brave Bird and there's a damn good chance you'd come out on top. VGC is bad enough without the cookie-cutter teams.

Gengar as is was struggling in OU with Levitate. Now give him a supereffective weakness, a shitty ability, and knock him down into UU where everything is tanky and bulky it will defiantly fall into RU where it belongs.

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Staraptor returns?

>>29787009
All Levitate did was give it a safe switch-in. At least Cursed Body might let it say a final fuck you before dying, and since it's out of the Levitate club it might even get a new hidden ability in the future.

>>29785427
PU.

Also, Gale Wings is just a meme ability now.
Flame Body is the way to go on any serious set (aside from some super-niche suicide lead, I guess?)

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>>29787079
Hopefully.

>>29787085
A CRUCIAL switch in, ground is a very common type and practically everything carries EQ. Cursed body also has a 30% chance of activating, so it does absolutely nothing 2/3rds of the time. The only thing it can benefit is from something like Sheer Force/Adaptability or Levitate which we all know we'll never get.

>>29787144
It's forever destined to be BL

>>29787105
What kind of trash do you play?

>>29787145
I'm not gonna claim to be a competitive expert, but Game Freak is probably balancing this around the incoming Terrain wars.

Put Gengar on a Tapu Bulu team, and your opponent's gonna think twice about running Earthquake.

So did they do anything about the genies and weather trio?

If GF decided to nerf the only good regional bird to hell and leave all the actual shit how it is I'm gonna be pissed

>>29785748
>>29786439
>making dozens of grass, fighting and bug types unviable are okay
>making talonflame unviable isn't
That's how you sound. Forget the priority 120 STAB move, it also gets priority Roost and U-turn if it's walled. This thing is click > KO a couple mons

>>29787079
He never left BL.

>>29787192
Gengar is now weak to EQ, and is going to UU

>>29787255
And in a Tapu Bulu team, it's neutral.

>>29787255
Because Mega Gengar being weak to Earthquake means so much. If we're talking VGC here, then talking tiers doesn't matter because everyone will be using the same Pokemon

As for normal Gengar, he'll probably be too good for UU and end up staying in BL for the generation

>>29787276
Both are UU mons. The only non UB OU mons this gen are Top Kek and Topamex. Everything else is shit

>>29785624

There was LITERALLY nothing wrong with Talonflame, but I guess its fucking crimminal to finally have a good, non-cucked regional bird.

>>29787321
>Topamex
who?

>>29786439
>Greninja getting a new form inferior to protean
>Talonflame getting nerf gale wings

Why does GF hates Ashnime so much? is the whole kalos team getting nerfs?

>>29787321
How do you figure? Koko benefits from having Bulu as a teammate as much as anyone.

That halved Earthquake damage is nothing to sneeze at.

>>29787353
Spiky sea urchin and inevitable waifu bait.

>>29787353
He means Toxapex.

>>29786843
>Gengar isn't immune to Ground
Since when?

>>29787460
Cursed Body has replaced Levitate completely

>>29787550
>>29787460

What of mega? Does it still have broken shadow tag?

>>29785427
>still can get off 1 Bravest of Brave Birds as a revenge kill
>still has access to STAB Flare Blitz
>still has access to Roost
>ONE-HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX SPEED
He will lose a lot of spot in teams, since it loses it main niche so it can't deal as easily with other revenge killers anymore, but if you think that its anything other than OU, you're fucking delusional.

The question should be, is it viable now, not because its slightly nerfed, but because the format is switching to a more stall heavier format?

>>29785444
hahaha, holy shit he's useless!

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>>29785427
UU, easily.

People are retarded. The nerf hurts a lot, sure, but what was quickly becoming his most popular set was his support utility set. Between tailwind, Will O Wisp, Roost, he was annoying to deal with.

People seem to forget that Talonflame has base 126 speed. The priority was never a big deal.

>>29787699
>People seem to forget that Talonflame has base 126 speed. The priority was never a big deal.

People forget that the reason those sets worked is because it could invest defensively and still outspeed things. Now Gale Wings basically doesn't work anymore, so it has to choose between speed and bulk.

>>29786779
Flygon is a better RU Tailwind setter

>>29787660
>Lycanroc used Accel Rock!

>>29787194
No.

>>29787660
>>still can get off 1 Bravest of Brave Birds as a revenge kill
Unless rocks are up.

>>29787754
>(Pokemon) used (move)!
When will this meme die? It makes /vp/ sound even dumber than it actually is.

>>29787810
>Anon used shitpost!

>>29787754
>using a 40BP move just to counter 1 OU Pokemon that might not be even used as often anymore because of the nerf.

Nice team construction, senpai!

>>29787350
Staraptor would like a word.

>>29787356
>inferior

252 SpA Life Orb Battle Bond Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 195-235 (30.3 - 36.6%)
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (30.3 - 35.6%)


it's not nature locked if you transfer it from the Demo.
it's almost as strong as protean Greninja with coverage. with STAB it's a fucking nuke.

Water Shuriken is at the very least 60BP before stab. 150BP at max BEFORE STAB.

>b-but you can't get a kill without protean!
Water/Dark still getting stab, nigga.
So yeah, naive/hasty/timid. it will be fucking a nice sidegrade.

>>29787833

>Non-Cucked

Starraptor is forever BL, which is usually worse than being flat out OU or UU.

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>>29787079
YES

>>29787843
>5 hits
Re-run the calculation with 1 for each scenario. :)

>>29787660
You won't be able to get it's priority back because you waste a turn healing you dumbass

>>29785469
Jesus. I would accept if they rather made Gale Wings work like a +1 speed boost.

Did they nerf Blaziken at least too? That's one Pokémon that will benefit a fucking lot from the lack of Talonflame in the game

>>29787859
>Is forever BL
I can see it dropping a tier due to new changes.

>>29788023
no

>>29788023
They won't nerf it cause it's not great in vgc

>>29787805
126 speed.

>>29788072
See
>>29787730

Did Haunter lose Levitate as well?
>your yfw when Eviolite Haunter becomes popular

>>29788047
>>29788065
what did they nerf then? And why did they nerf Gengar if he isn't good in the vgc neither?

>>29788138
Only Gengar, and Eviolite was nerfed too

>>29788159
>yfw Gengar losing levitate was a misguided attempt to bring Gengar into VGC with the Terrain wars

>>29788042
well i mean dodrio is now basically just a better version of it so possibly
although dodrio also has garbage abilities

>>29788159
Raikou, Suicune and Entei (their abilities were replaced with Inner Focus)
Talonflame
Gengar
Eviolite

>>29788178
>Eviolite was nerfed too
How so?

>>29788159
Gale wings. People could run bulky sets without having to worry about faster Pokémon

>>29788198
They decreased the buff it gives, I don't remember how much but it's pretty substantial.

>>29788198
People say that it was nerfed to a 20% stat boost, but just as many people are saying this nerf is a lie. We'll have to wait a bit longer.

>>29788228
I can believe it. This whole meta game is gonna be a mess. Trump is already fucking things up

>>29788178
>45/50/45/115/55/95
Still has passable SAtk/Spd, so I guess it could be okay if you really want an EQ resist. I don't think Eviolite would help it survive anything even if it doesn't get nerfed either way.

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>>29788189
>Nerfed the cats for no reason
Wew LAD. They really want the Tapus to be the next thing.
>Eviolite
What did they do?

>>29788297
Nvm just looked at the replies.

Rip Pink blob. You won't be missed.

>>29788269
Game Freak balanced the meta on the Alolan Dex, not the National Dex

Spread this like wildfire, VGC is Alolan-exclusive teams and Megas are banned

>>29788396
At least until the next vgc. Gengar was such a balanced mon, now gf wants make changes where it doesn't count

>>29788342
You mean, rip Porygon2. Chansey will just evolve.

>>29788342
Forget Chansey, they've ruined Togetic and Magneton.

>>29788651
They were never good

>>29788688
>OU is the only meta

>>29788712
Togetic maybe, analytic specs magnaton wrecks in ru

>>29788688
Magneton is faster than Magnezone

>>29788780
It doesn't matter, Magnezone is better.
Magneton is only useful where Magnezone is banned.

>>29788808
>hes never used 2 mags and 2 dragon team

>>29787750
Flygon ain't staying in RU

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>>29788179
>
Oh my word. It was actually a buff. For the 6th gen in a row. I should've realized.

>>29788228
It was a lie, eviolite is still the same.

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>>29788893
This kills the Garchomp

>>29789341
Not really

>>29789022

A real buff would have been if Cursed Body was his Hidden Ability instead of replacing it.

>>29788180
you got it all wrong

dodrio is still a worse staraptor

>hahaha get fucked talonfags!!
Disappointing behavior. And this is coming from someone whose favorite type is Bug.
What you all fail to understand is that going from one of extreme to another is not balancing; it's the opposite of balancing.
Talonflame did need a nerf, but this isn't a nerf, it just got murdered.

Don't know what I expected, /vp/ is filled with underages after all.
Instead, you should all be worrying about what next crazy shit GF will pull off. Your favorites could be next; kinda late for me though, one of my top 3, Quagsire, got fucked too.

>>29789920
What happened to him?

>>29790314
Unaware got ganked so it only activates when the user attacks iirc

Basically cant fuck with set up sweepers by simply existing anymore.

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>>29790349
Why game freak why you do dis

>>29790404
I'm not sure they even have a clear idea of what they're doing at all.

>>29785427
Staying in god tier, obviously.
Give up all your smogonshit, really

>>29790574
Trying to balance for vgc, when they get the national Dex legal

>>29787364
wouldn't koko lose the earthquake resist because it replaces the grass terrain with electric terrain?

>>29790901
Really depends on who gets sent out first.

>>29787843
>Water/Dark still getting stab
Assault vest any legendary especially Lugia, Ho-oh, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Chansey, Blissey, Aegislash shield form, Genesect and many more, and mega/primal evolve the others BEFORE Ash greninja battle bonds and randomize the then come back to me
Otherwise, Let the adults do the talking
>>29787892
Pretty much this

>>29785748
Doesn't Terrain only affect grounded Pokémon? Psychic Terrain shouldn't matter to Talonflame. Not that it helps it much.

>>29789920
>it just got murdered
That is untrue. It still is incredibly fast (the 22nd fastest) with two incredibly high powered attacks that are two of the best attacking types in the game. Plus it's good support movepool and access to reliable recovery makes this still a very solid pokemon. It'll still probably be OU or at least BL once things settle down.

And this is coming from someone who hates the fucker.

>>29791384
>And this is coming from someone who hates the fucker.
It shows considering out baffling ignorance and bias towards the bird.

>>29789457
That, or giving it Prankster. It fits thematically and would arguably make it better than Levitate though that'd come at the cost of making M-Banette 100% irrelevant.

>>29791424
Not like it matters, Banette is already 99% irrelevant.

>>29791424
Not like M-Banette was any relevant in first place.

Speaking of M-Banette, here's a nerf for it and Gengar as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBfHD7ZIw-0

>>29791439
>>29791442
True, but you'll be hard pressed to find one Pokemon that does everything another does but better. The only one that comes to mind is Ambipom over Persian.
flygon to garchomp doesnt count anymore

>>29791397
>It shows considering out baffling ignorance and bias towards the bird.
I fail to see how this counters my argument for its continued viability. If this was any pokemon other than Talonflame, would you consider it a shitmon? Of the new issues, Bruxish is of questionable usage and can be U-turned out of and Tsareena loses in most matchups. Accelrock is the only real answer and that, admittedly, I have not checked the distribution for.

>>29791565
Only the dog gets Accelrock. That's it.

>>29791384
there are plenty of mons with one or two exceptional stats, and even have a good movepool and/or ability, but are plagued by its other shit stats
crobat, whimsicott, and accelgor are 3 that come to mind

>>29785469

I've heard conflicting reports; some say it only works at 100%, others say it works any time above 50%. Do we have a source for any of this?

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>>29791712
Can't read Spanish but "al maximo" looks like something about maximum.
Alas Vendaval is definitely Gale Wing though,

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>>29791829
Spic here, it says Gale Wings only works when your HP is at 100%

>>29791648
This is true, but none of them have access to a stab 120bp fire move. Both Crobat and Whimsicott are walled fairly well by steel types, and Accelgor is made of paper which keeps it from taking even neutral damage well.

>>29791018
No it doesn't. Electric Surge or Elec Surge or whatever it is would activate as soon as Topu Keko hit the field.

>>29792078
What's PS in Spanish?

>>29785427
It's only really viable as a lead now, likely with band. Probably RU-NU

>>29793338

Puntos de Salud, Health Points in english.