COMPETITIVE GENERAL

Yo, how about Gigalith and Vanilluxe getting Sand Stream and Snow Warning?

>>29760563
not as good as other weather setter and will be in OU with the ability sooo, not really

Full list of nerfs/buffs anywhere?

>>29760563
They will have use in VGC17 because no TTar and Abonasnow. Outside it though? No real reason to use them.

Pelipper and Torkoal are pretty good alternates though.

>>29760629
Nowhere yet. You gotta pick them up here and there.

>>29760563
They, as well as Pelipper and Torkoal will be better but still not good.
A lot of small +10 stat tweaks all around, even Mega-Zam got 10 more SpD.
Wonder if Trick Room will be more viable with all these slow mons. Doubt it, honestly.

SMOGON/SINGLESFAGS IN RUINS
VGC GOT FIXEDthough the Tapus will be the new genies

>>29760674
>SMOGON/SINGLESFAGS IN RUINS
People say this every gen.

Every gen Smogn just adapts and moves on while you people keep being butthurt at Smogon. When will you ever learn?

>>29760673
>>Wonder if Trick Room will be more viable with all these slow mons. Doubt it, honestly.
Trick Room will always be excellent in doubles. In singles though? Never until it gets an auto-setter.

>>29760629
nobody has done a version dif of the learnsets yet so no
theres a picture out there of the stat/ability changes but thats not much
also mechanical changes are still up in the air since its not something that can be easily datamined

>>29760563
gigalith is ok
vanilluxe is still trash, ninetails outclasses it

>>29760674
singles benefits way more from most of these changes
doubles is just going to be a clusterfuck of weather, bulkmons with boosting moves and orangurus

>>29760852
>>29760852
>bulkmons with boosting moves
I don't see why people are so happy to see priority get so fucked over. All we doing is going back to gen 5 set-up meta.

>>29760426
Smogon is saved! No more Brave Bird.

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>thinking about using scarf silvally
>...
>wait, shit

Too bad it doesn't get Earth Power, a special ground would have been cool. I'll probably just go with steel.

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>Ferrothorn + Toxicspikeball defensive core
I'm scared.

>>29760913
what, you mean before talonflame? there's a terrain type that as far as we know has one setter, and a couple pokemon with anti-priority abilities. priority nerfs are a good thing so far, straight-up.

Reply to this post or the FBI arrests you for pirating SuMo

How was talonflame nerfed?

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>>29760913
>>29761030
>mfw even Smogonbird got fucked
How is Brave Bird even a Fighting attack?

i didn't pirate it though

>>29761072
i don't even own a ds

>>29761124
Galewings works only if you have more than 50 percent health

Also Accelrock being a move, and psychic terrain plus abilities that stop going priority from the clownfish and cherry waifubait thing

>>29760426
Some slight attack additions
Air Slash Butterfree
Focus Energy Fearow
Jump Kick Dodrio
Coil Furret
Air Slash Ledian
Poison web Ariados
Quiver Dance Bellossom
Air Slash and Dragon Rush Dunsparce
Throat Chop Sneasel
Aurora Veil is a TM, only usable in hail

>>29761030
>priority nerfs are a good thing so far, straight-up.
t. someone who never played gen 5 meta.

All these "bulky" slow shitmons will do nothing in the long run because everything else will keep being fast and hard-hitting and now they won't even have to worry about priority so they can set-up without ever fearing to be stopped anymore.

And as a plus we now have terrain wars because clearly weather wars were not enough.

>>29761124
Gale Wings only activates when at full HP. It was not a nerf, it was murder.

>>29761125
>How is Brave Bird even a Fighting attack?
It's not. You got memed.

>>29761176
>>Galewings works only if you have more than 50 percent health
Really?

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 4HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- U-Turn
- Leaf Blade
- Sucker Punch

This set will be used and be prosperous to NU. Agreed?

What happened to Pelipper and Torkoal? Drizzle and Drought? Whatever new gift Pelipper got, did Wingull get it as well?

>>29761183
Dumbsparce dragon evo WHEN

>>29761183
>air slash butterfree
that sounds fucking amazing, it might not get it above PU/NU at best but damn Ive been waiting for that

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>>29761208
>It's not. You got memed.
fug

For a moment I thought we were free from priority shenanigans.

WAIT EVOLITE GOT NERFED!?

WHAT ELSE HAVE THEY NERFED?

>>29761329
Unaware.

It now only ignores defensive boosts. You cannot stop set-up sweepers now. Stall is fucking dead too.

Seriously. I have no idea how anyone can say the game is balanced now, we are going full hyper offense this time.

Any comprehensive lists of what has been changed of old stats/moves?

>>29761229
Wingull got Hydration

>>29761351
If this is the case, how is Talonflame dead?

>>29761412
>how is Talonflame dead?
Gale Wings is borderline useless now. I don't really have to explain to you how GW made Talonflame good, right?

>>29760426
Everything is slow because its obvious they want people to use weather effects in hopes for a healthier meta. It explains why so many abilites this gen deal with weather conditions and speed ups under certain conditions

>>29761448
What happened to GW? You don't seriously think Bruxish and Tsareena will be on every team, do you?

>>29761509
Holy shit dude read the damn thread

>>29761208
>Gale Wings only activates when at full HP. It was not a nerf, it was murder.

>>29761213
no because its shit and the thing is too good for nu
the real set will be shackle/sd/roost/pass with max physical bulk

>Z-MOVES ARE SOMETHING BESIDES GLORIFIED GEMS
Explain.

>>29761208
I absolutely played gen 5 meta, it was fun as shit because of all the weather shenanigans. gen 6 meta was total ass, in large part because of talonflame

>>29761685
They have some additional effects
e.g. Destiny Bond draws attacks to you (in doubles), Celebrate boosts every stat +1,...

>UB-04 Katana
Fuck. Why does this exist. Tell me how a scarfed one of these things doesn't ruin OU

>>29761685
Conversion becomes a +1 for everything which means Porygon-Z is now usable.

>>29761685
>>29761751
also attacking move deal 25% damage through protect

>>29761763
Just use Brave Bi- Oh wait :^!

>>29761183
Every starter gets Work Up

>>29760667
>>29760563
>>29760563
Pelipper is pretty solid as well, thing has Wide Guard pretty negating Rock Slide, Taiilwind for support plus got a stat buff to its s.atk and learns Hurricane. It's basically trading in a 4x elec weak for actual offensive and support options.

Torkoal is very very mediocre as a Sun setter other than being near guaranteed the setup as the slowest weather mon.

Gigalith's only real purpose is rendering physical T-tar a pointless thing of the past, it's basically it's superior in raw physical offensive and defensive power. Just means T-tar's will have to go full special or mixed to be worth using and to take advantage of its movepool.

Alola Ninetales is basically the best thing to happen to Hail, they finally get a setter which isn't fighting weak and has a bit more utility plus the huge buff to Hail teams in general having basically a 1 turn Reflect+Light Screen now and a Hail Swift Swim equivilent.

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>>29760426
>bellossom gets quiver dance
BASED GF FINALLY BUFFS MY FAVORITE
THIS IS A GOOD DAY TO BE ALIVE

>>29761787
It has great (at least good) physical bulk. Wouldn't do much.

Diancie
40 Power Gem
Am I looking right?

>>29761937
>>Gigalith's only real purpose is rendering physical T-tar a pointless thing of the past, it's basically it's superior in raw physical offensive and defensive power. Just means T-tar's will have to go full special or mixed to be worth using and to take advantage of its movepool.
Hell no.

TTar keeps being superior to Gigalith in nearly all aspects. Better movepool. Better typing. Better stats. More viable items. Who cares if it can hit a little harder with Stone Miss when TTar can still Crunch or Pursuit your shit up?

Gigalith will only get use in VGC17 because no TTar and in lower tiers because it's impossible for another weather setter to not be usable. Otherwise TTar will be the pick 99.9% of the time.

Torkoal is a big bummer though, I agree. Drought needs a ground or grass inducer for Sun to finally be good.

>>29761937
the problem with hail is that it forces you to use ice types
rain benefits water, electric, grass (and other fire-weak mons)
sand benefits rock, steel and ground
sun benefits fire and certain grass-types
hail only works with ice-types.

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>STAB Flare Blitz + Rock Head
>Thick Club is still a thing.
>New STAB physical Ghost move that can lower Defense

Yay?

>>29762163
>45 speed with that "bulk"
AAAAAAAHAHAHAHhaaa :(

>>29762163
>Those stats
Nope.

I piss on Talonflame's grave desu

>>29762163
>Optional Thunder Wave immunity and Rock Polish
>Can burn switch ins with willow
RU at least

Would Assvest Vikavolt work?

Holy shit the Oricorios are SHIT

They learn fucking nothing at all and they have shit-tier stats too.

What the fuck was going on with Gamefreak this gen?

>>29761351
>I have no idea how anyone can say the game is balanced now, we are going full hyper offense this time.
are you serious? stall was objectively the best play style in the game for singles. unaware nerf pretty much kills it now (which is a good thing because only faggots used it anyways) but you're still free to use fatmons like skarmory/hippo etc. this one change doesnt make hyper offense broken

>>29762400
>if we make all the pokemon shit, people will be forced to use the shitmons, right?
>right?

Does anybody know if Luxray gets new moves?
I also like to know if Lilligant finally gets another non grass-type move.

>tapu koko
>physical electric/fairy
well, 95 SpA is still usable with electric terrain, but it's still disappointing

>>29762489
And then we turn around and we have things like Marshadow that have god-tier everything and are so masterfully crafted you'd think it was made by Smogon and NuggetBridge combined.

Gamefreak is literally monkeys throwing darts at random and going with wherever the dart stuck. How they manage to be so inconsistent with everything they do is beyond me.

>>29762597
it doesn't have a physical fairy move right?
probably helps with balance but just Band it and spam wild charge when you kill their ground types

>>29762120
And overcoat pokemon

>>29762650
>>it doesn't have a physical fairy move right?
Play Rough nigga.

>>29762676
i must have missed it in the video i thought it didn't get one and that GF was gay again

Some other interesting buffs which seem interesting

>Regular Dugtrio +20 attack and keeps Arena Trap
It's biggest problem was always the lacklustre attack which made it come short on some revenge kills, more attack should help that.

>Arcanine learns Burn Up a 130BP special fire attack that makes it lose it's fire typing after use
One would assume Arcanine turns into a typeless pokemon with no resists or weaknesses.

>Masquerain now gains +20 s.atk and +20 spd boosted to 100/80 respectively
Not the biggest thing but far as Intimidate users go in VGC it's one of the few we have and it at least has a decent movepool.

>Exeggutor +10 s.def
Actually a important one because Eggy is decent and now has had it's special defense patched up a bit.

>Swellow +25 s.atk
Guess they really want you to use Boomburst? It is the strongest STAB attack it can learn now for what it's worth.

>Electrode +10 speed
Because it wasn't fast enough already.

>Dodrio +10 speed
At least this one helps putting it in the 110 speed tier now even if it is something nobody cares about

>Mantine +20HP
Actually making it really fucking bulky now but with Pelipper taking over the Flying/Water role I don't see this mattering.

>Beartic +20 atk to 130 atk and Slush Rush Ability: Doubles speed in Hail
For what it's worth it isn't totally shit just sort of shit now.

>>29762599
Not everything has to be good and speed is not the only important thing

>>29762713
Don't forget jump kick for dodrio and roost for mantine
They will move up a tier

>>29762777
>>29762777
>Not everything has to be good
There's a difference between good and usable. Some of these new mons are not even usable. How is it justifiable that the Oricorios don't learn anything of their non-flying typing?

>and speed is not the only important thing
t. frail mixed "sweeper"

How's PU doing for you?

>>29762342
Marowak doesn't learn Rock Polish.

>>29762676
Literally where

>>29762841
>roost for mantine
holy FUCK it only took five generations

>>29762851
Oricorio gets Revelation Dance, which becomes a STAB move of their typing.

>>29762841
Moveset wise a lot of Pokemon got some help.

Flygon got Dragon Dance.

Is Excadrill still useful? Please tell me it's dropping down to NU or at least PU?

So Zygarde loses DD, thoughts?

Also any sign of Ash-Greninja stats anywhere?

>>29763240
what the fuck?
>excadrill moving down at all let alone THAT far
It spins it rocks it scarfs

>>29763251
Ahh nevermind that Greninja comment

>>29763251
>zygarde loses DD
There's nothing really stoping you from transferring up.

Ash Greninja is 72/95/67/103/71/122

So where can I find the effects of all the new moves? Not all of them are in the datamine videos.

>>29762999
Has it finally happened? Is it time?

Eat shit Garchomp.

>Everything got nerfed to oblivion
>Every new Pokemon is shit
What went wrong bros?

>>29763331
But fuck! Why? Doesn't Alola Dugtrio do it's job better

>>29763474
Garchomp is still better flygoncuck

>>29763483
Not even slightly no.

>>29763370
Kalos-Zygarde might keep Aura Break?

>>29763477
I bet the genies are behind this.

>>29763483
no excadrill has good bulk and attack and can spin and has sand rush or mole breaker

>>29763477
>everything that was good got knocked down a peg
>shit mons got stat boosts, new abilities and moves
This is gonna be an interesting gen.

>>29760563
Vanilluxe will probably move up to NU and replace abomasnow as the 100% accuracy blizzard user, it has better stats overall. I really don't know what Gigalith would do, it would make sand offense with stoutland more fun in PU but as a lead/tank golem still outclasses it.

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>>29761183
>Jump Kick Dodrio

I don't think people realize just how fucking great this is.

Firstly, Dodrio just got a Speed Buff. +10, so he's sitting happily at 110 Speed.

Secondly, Jump Kick isn't your old Jump Kick from RBY. It's 100 BP, 95% Acc now.

So basically...

Adamant / Jolly Dodrio @ Choice Band / Life Orb
>Brave Bird
>Jump Kick
>Knock Off
>Steel Wing

Just the first 3 moves give it nearly unresisted type coverage (fuck Dedenne). Steel Wing lets it fuck over ALL Fairies pretty fucking hard.

Basically, Dodrio just got pretty fucking useful and is going to end up in UU at the very least.

>>29763370
Well fuck there goes my DD+WP build

Shame too good cause CompleteGarde is bulky as fuck

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>>29762841
>Mantine got Roost

FINALLY WE FUCKING GOT SKARMORY VER. WATER

JESUS CHRIST THAT TOOK FOREVER

MANTINE FOR UU

>>29761685
You and anyone else that actually thought of them as "glorified gems" to begin with are fucking retarded

>>29763712
And then Pelipper got Drizzle completely outclassing it at the same time.

>>29763712
Don't forget the plus 20+ to HP!

>>29763745
Pelipper is for a completely different type of team - Hyper Rain Offense, while Mantine can be used as a bulky special pivot on pretty much any team now.

>>29763750
FUCK YES.

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>>29763712
>yfw Mantine becomes OU because it hard-counters non-HP Electric Keldeo and can now reliably heal itself

>>29762851
Holy fuck, Smogonfags need a separate thread. No one plays your damn rules.

>>29763911
Stay butthurt.

>>29763911
>No one plays your damn rules.
>Post literally over yours is talking about OU
Sure no one does, huh?

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Wait, how did Eviolite get nerfed? I haven't seen any information on this.

>>29763980
Just a meme

>>29761183
jump kick dodrio with base 110 speed is gonna be a lot more viable in PU, could even replace stoutland as the chief of normal spam. Also looking forward to QD bellossom, could it replace lilligant? It has better bulk and coverage options, but less speed/special attack. I can't see much use for the other things except ingame.

>>29763745
Any benefits to using pelipper than politoed?

did any Gen 5 pokemon get changed?

did my nigga Escavalier get anything new?

>>29764112
100% Hurricanes
Knock off
Wide Guard and Tailwind for Doubles

Politoed has more bulk though.

according to the datamine lilligant changed but I can't tell what changed.

any ideas?

>>29763980
It didn't.

>>29764224
he also goes on my all frog team

>>29764112
STAB Hurricane, Tailwind, Roost, and some other random utility. Also the good resistances and Ground immunity that come by being Flying-type. It's weak to pebbles and has an annoying 4x weakness to Electric though, but it's good to have options.

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>>29760426
Hello, competitive people. Can Pink Cat gets a "Welcome" ?

>>29764124
>did any Gen 5 pokemon get changed?
Be more fucking specific, Gen 5 is literally the largest Generation in the series.

>did my nigga Escavalier get anything new?
It got nothing.

So Ash-Pikachu is purely aesthetic huh. Could've buffed him even a little at least.

>>29764017

Dodrio's not staying in PU with Jump Kick and 110 Speed.

Unresisted Type Coverage coming off of 110 Speed and 110 Attack is way too good for PU, and may even bring Dodrio up out of NU. It's too bad his abilities are shit, else he may even have made it up to UU one day.

>>29764327
I think it actually got a couple stats buffed a bit. Hope Delcatty gets some love in the lower tiers.

>>29764327
>>29764421
+20 speed so pretty much nothing.

>>29764355
>Be more fucking specific, Gen 5 is literally the largest Generation in the series.

>doubt it and check the wiki
>it added 156 new mons

holy shit I didn't know that

eerr, think of the lines of Cofagrigus, Golurk or Conkeldurr

>>29764327
Your speed got buffed.

You're welcome.

>>29764372
BRO
when greninja get a kill he turns into ash greninja for the rest of the battle
72 hp
145 att
67 def
153 spa
71 spd
132 spe

>>29764372
>10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt
>The user, Pikachu wearing a cap, powers up a jolt of electricity using its Z-Power and unleashes it.Critical hits land more easily.
>Electric
>Special
>195 Power
>1 PP
>+2 Critical Hit
>Adjacent Pokémon

>>29761009
Shell smash Minor with white herb + acrobatics does like 90% to ferrothorn senpai

>>29760426
>>29760426
Gen 7 worst gen for competitive non legends. Don't even want to think about it, why did i have faith in Gamefreak?

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>>29764460
> 1st round
> Delcatty used Play Rough
> Incineroar fainted

So who is the best starter, what move should i make them learn?

>>29764527
Aside from Aegislash, Klefki, Smogonbird and Greninja, Gen 6 was pretty awful too.

Most of Gen 5 was practically unusable unless it could abuse weather or was a legend.

What is the full list of changed moves? I have the pastebins from KazoWAR but some only have an (!) next to their names but nothing else

I hear Dragon Dance and Swords Dance now lower your defenses. Is that true?

>>29764535
heck yeah it does guy.

>>29764578
No to both.

>>29760426
The Tapus are the reason why i'll only play Uber this gen

Was Stealth Rock nerfed along with Knock Off?

>>29764606
They have notes next to their names though. What changed, then?

>>29764535
>neutral non stab from 65 Attack

>>29764535
252+ Atk Delcatty Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 75-89 (22.6 - 26.8%) -- 36.3% chance to 4HKO
Changed it to have Incineroar's defenses, of course.
Don't think you'll have much going on aside from normalize, sorry kitty.

>>29764611
at least one of the tapus is probably gonna be banned, maybe two
and the other two kinda suck

>>29764468
Golurk is the only thing that got anything new in two new Ground atatcks and they're both outclassed by EQ.

>>29764379
>It's too bad his abilities are shit
We could use Thrash + Tangled Feet and sweep drunken master style

>>29764666
They are all Broken despite what people are thinking.
Everyone thinks Lele is the strongest while fini is the true fucking broken one

>>29764488
Sure, but it loses the stat boost of Light Ball and can only perform 1 solid move, while Greninja gets Uber stats.

>>29764756
But muh priority memes

>>29764566
At least with Gen 6, it seemed like they were trying. Diggersby was surprisingly decent, Sylveon hit like a nuke, Klefki was an annoying piece of shit, Hawlucha was okay, Chesnaught had some niche uses. Even if all of them weren't top tier, they didn't do too bad.

Most of these new mons seem like fucking shit. I thought the starters weren't all that good, but it looks like they're actually the cream of the crop this gen outside of legends. What the hell?

>>29764633
PP reduced from 20 to 10.

So fucking nothing.

Guys should I build a TR team around Vikavolt or Wishiwashi?

>>29764862
None

>>29764883
Don't be like that, TR is my jam, and all these new low speed mons makes me hard.

What are the chances a hail team is now viable? Ninetails seems like a great weather setter and aurora veil is awesome.

Beartic can now function as a sweeper with his high attack and slush rush and of course weavil is good.

I'm worried about sandslash though. Seems like he'd just be doing the same thing as beartic only worse. Maybe I've got it all wrong though.

>>29764933
You'll want Magic Coat/Overcoat support mons as well to diversify typing so you don't get ganked by certain mons.

but what if they're trying to equalize everything by making it shit, rather than bringing everything up and muh power creep

>>29764795
Not really. Primarina is a shittier tapu, Decidueye has literally nothing but defog and roost going for it over the anchor, and if you're gonna use a fire type, you're not gonna use dark emboar compared to Salandit.

>>29760426
Hey guys I like the VGC 17 rules. I am thinking about getting back into pokemon because of them. It seems like it will be a good season with more creative team building because of lack of the handful of mega pokemon that were essential for every team.

However, I am worried about ultra beasts. Are they going to be legal in VGC? If so, I think the meta will revolve around the 2 or 3 best ultra beasts and it will be just as bad as X/Y Mega-centric meta.

>haha, everything is so slow on gen 7 time to sweep all these shitmons with my super speedy jolly/timid squad!

>wtf why didnt my super faster than the universe pokemon OHKO this shit slow pokemon

>wait a sec why do these mons have HP EV investment im supposed to OHKO them REEEE why are they not dying in one hit

>noo dont killOHKO me noo im faster than you im supposed to survive with my squad of 0 HP EV and 102129 speed EV mons nooo

>>29764967
Since they're in the National Dex it's not likely

>>29764933
Super low. Absolutely NOT in OU, and probably not even in UU.

Hail REALLY needed that buff to Sp. Def or Def that Rock gets in a Sand Storm. They just have too many weaknesses and too many things with Priority can fuck them over hard.

>>29764975
You say that but these Pokemon really don't have the bulk to be tanking hits from the power level of the last few gens. Especially megas.

>>29764645
>>29764664
At least Delcatty is not that shit it was on the past few gens anymore, kinda useful, Kitty-anon is overrating and people underrating its new buff.

>>29764975
Are you okay anon?

>>29765025
This. Nearly all the spreads are gen 3-tier bad.

>>29761937
Just having U-Turn on Pelliper makes it so much better. you can set up rain, take a hit and safely U-Turn into you're Swift Swimmer/Specs Keldeo and destroy something. On top of that, you have Roost for longevity, another advantage over Politoed. Pelliper is going places.

>>29764862
Don't forget Xerkitree if it's legal.

>>29765015
Ok thank god. Which pokemon are in the Alolan pokedex? Are there any old pokemon, like poliwrath for a random example, that can be caught in the region and will be available?

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>Electrode got its speed boosted to 150

God damn it Gamefreak WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT if Electrode is just the fastest shitmon? What the hell can it even do besides set up Rain super speedy?

>>29765023
But they get dual screens in one turn

>>29765059
It's amazing what one simple actually good ability can do for a Pokemon.

>>29765070
electro-ball :^)

>>29765070
Explode with the quickness?

>>29764975
>he thinks this
>Gen 7 Will be BW Hyper Offense 2 with Terrains.

>>29765066
pastebin.com/64JuuLvp

C'mon anon. How behind are you on everything?

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so, how did the leaker know that only darkrai can use dark void?

where does it say that smeargle cannot sketch it?

>>29764975
yeah gotta love all these Alolan 60/40/40 defensive ice types who can magically tank hits with defensive EV investment. Truly meta-changing. Not something that a mega pinsir with 1 swords dance can triple kill in one turn. Not at all.

I Just wanna know anons, is Protean unchanged from Gen VI?

>>29765070
It can now outspeed max-Speed Mega-Sceptile for that sweet combo. Electrode got Discharge in ORAS explicitly for that combo as well.

>>29765058
don't forget megas are banned in vgc

>>29765106
it can't even do that because of the explosion nerf ages ago

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>>29765113
Very behind thanks for answering my questions

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What the heck can Araquanid be used for? They seem useful but cannot figure out for the life of me what kind of moveset would be best.

Maybe something with Power Split?

>>29765176
>Alolan speed

>>29765113
Zygarde is in there. Don't tell me he's going to be vgc-legal.

>>29765176
>low speed
>no support options
>no offenses
The immunity to burn is nice but it... can't really do anything to be honest. It'll just die before it can shoot off a Power Split

>>29761763
>Tell me how a scarfed one of these things doesn't ruin OU

it will be ubers, thats how

>>29765176
I'm so fucking mad about this statspread and typing.
This pokemon alone ruined my hype. I hope i'll be hyped again.

>>29765161
And they are gonna be back in vgc18 and big legends and ub will be usable again in vgc19. Let's see how your gen7 shitmons fare then.

And megas are still usable in battle spot.

And let's not even bring up smogon tiers.

That the only way gen 7 pokemon can be viable is on vgc17 where all the good stuff is not allowed to be speaks tons of how good they actually are.

>>29764124
80 BP Leech Life.

>>29765135
Bump

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>>29765176
>High Defensive stat
>barely any fucking Health

Why do they do this?

>>29764966
And that's still better than what most things this gen have going for them. The starters are about RU, maybe UU if they're lucky good while almost everything else is probably PU or NU level. The only thing that came out fine were the fucking legends, UBs and maybe two lucky mons.

>>29765176
Dancing like a bitch to make it's partner immune to fire... And die.

>>29765176
Any intel on what its ability actually does?

>>29765064
Xerkitree has like 83 speed as tempting as that 170ish special attack is I think it's sadly too fast for TR

>>29765283
>92 def
>high

>>29761009
Salazzle will be on every fucking team if that's the case.

She can spread Toxic to anything, even Poison and Steel types.

I'm actually pretty hyped for that.

>>29765124
That wasn't the leaker, that was the multiple datamines.

>>29765273
>its actually better than Leech Horn by 5 BP

yes

>>29765283
>High offensive mixed stats
>Barely any speed
It's almost like I'm playing Gen 3!

>>29765334
Defensive as in Defense and Sp. Def you mong

>>29765335
>Wasting your time poisoning stuff when you can just sweep them with your +110 base speed and sp atk boosted by nasty plot

>>29761763
>Barely any of its attacks have any oomph
>Intimidate ruins Beast Boost
>Pray if it fails to take out any special attacker

Should make a fantastic late game cleaner though

>>29765106
>>29765166
For what good if it matters.

Alola Golem now has a electric type STAB Explosion.

Yeah...I don't even know but it's a option if you want to go full Jihadist, it even has a beard.

>super training gone
they wouldn't removes hordes, wouldn't they?
WOULDN'T THEY?

>>29765291
So basically the same as last gen, except with more Golisopod and Wishiwashi.

>>29764756
fini is the one i thought was probably gonna end up banned
taunt, scald, defog and a free specs moonblast? i dont think itll stick around for long

they all have good gimmicks though, bulu gets rototiller, koko can roost and voltturn with 130 spe, and lele is just a generally good cleric, gamefreak way overdid their movepools

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>>29765352
>tfw Ohmori just copypasted RSE stats because muh ORAS director

>>29765313
Fire resist and burn immunity.

>>29763889
Fini and Bulu counter Keldeo better. I'm glad Mantine is rising to UU though.

>>29765390
Koko gets Roost? Well, makes sense thinking about it.

>and a free specs moonblast?
Misty doesn't boost fairy moves. Or they changed that too?

The Tapus are 10/10 mons, all of them. I hope you faggots love seeing them in every team next year. If you thought 2 genies were bad now you have 4 tapus.

>>29765015
Why wouldn't the ultra beasts be in the alolan pokedex?

>>29765273
Escavalier doesn't even learn Leech Life.

>>29765487
Because the datamine said so.

>>29765471
Also:
Water/Fairy, best double typing in the game.

Misty terrain prevents STATUS CONDITIONS.

Fini is even more broken than the other three Totem Genies

>>29765387
It's really not the same. A lot of mons in Kalos managed to hit RU or above, even if some required move tutors for that. This gen seems so much worse.

>>29765375
See, why not both? So you have Nasty Plot and Flamethrower and Sludge Wave for a nice and unique dual STAB. Then what? It has a really shallow special movepool. Sure, Ferrothorn gets cooked, but what about other Pokemon that resist that, like Tentacruel or that new Water/Poison wall. I say cripple it. Perfect accuracy Toxic that hits everything, guaranteed.

>>29765254
UBs are usable in VGC 17. The only banned mons are Sol, Luna, Mag, and AshGreg

Any of the bug/water mons' worth a damn to run on mono-bug or am I just gonna be passing QDs to Vikavolt? (Wifi)

And for Smogon-mono it looks like nothing new is worth running aside some gimmick team built on Glisopod?

>>29760426

Fuck this gen. maybe i will come back when Gale wings is back to it's formerself.

Talonflame is my favorite pokemon and they literally killed him.

guess it's all over.

>>29765135
hey i wanna know as well. was protean nerfed like gale wings or is it still the same?

What's Vikavolt's movepool look like?

>>29765595
Yeah Toxic is the only thing it can really do to Heatran

>>29765672
Complete trash

>>29765554
and a lot who seemed like they had potential, like trevenant, gourgeist, avalugg, couldn't even make it out of NU.

Remember that gen 6 gave us the least amount of Pokemon overall, the fact that a large number of those Pokemon were shitmon is a bad thing. If every single UB and Koko made it at least to UU, that would already outnumber the total number of viable Pokemon in Gen 6.

>>29765672
https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/796015665148809216

>>29765595
>but what about other Pokemon that resist that, like Tentacruel or that new Water/Poison wall.
You use [insert hidden power here] because wasting one turn on toxic on those things that will kill you with one scald because you are frailer than paper is a terrible fucking idea.

The damn thing is a fast frail sweeper, why do you think it'll be good taking hits and toxic'ing everything? The ability is wasted on it because it's completely contradictory to everything else the slut lizard is.

>>29765606
Source

UBs being allowed or not in vgc 17 rules determines whether i buy the game or not

>>29765672
It's a special attacker with barely any special moves and mostly physical moves.

You know, typical gamefreak stuff.

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>>29765611
lgtss

>Talonfags

>>29765672
Only coverage outside of STAB is Energy Ball. Maybe consider something like
Thunderbolt
Volt Switch
Energy Ball
Bug Buzz

If Mence gets banned from UU in gen 7 as well then Flygon might be pretty good in UU.

>>29765689
That's why I'm saying this gen seems even worse. Almost all the power went to the legendary tier stuff. I know legend doesn't automatically mean good, but this is ridiculous. It's like they only cared about Tapus and UBs.

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>>29762400
>Like their design, figure I might use one
>Mediocre stats, well okay then
>Shit movepool with no coverage, can't learn any typed moves outside of their unique dance attack great
>Unique dance attack takes until level 40 to learn so it's even shit in-game

Thanks gayfreak

>>29765606
>UBs are usable in VGC 17.
Source: Your ass.

We literally don't know if they will be banned or not.

But we do know that VGC17 is Aloladex only and UB are not in the Aloladex so considering the information we have for now UB will NOT be allowed on 17.

>>29765383
Anon...

Alola Golem can hold Z-Normal Crystal, and Galvanize affects Z-Moves.

Alolan Golem is fucking BROKEN.

>>29765767
it's almost as if legendary pokemon are meant to be good and overpopulating a game with too many good pokemon only because some of them have an arbitrary legendary label is a bad thing.

Gen 6 didn't even have fucking legendaries outside the box covers.

>>29762713
>>>Arcanine learns Burn Up a 130BP special fire attack that makes it lose it's fire typing after use
>One would assume Arcanine turns into a typeless pokemon with no resists or weaknesses.
One would assume wrong. Pokemon that remove their only type become Normal ever since ??? was removed. At least Extreme Speed is STAB.

>>29765689
There is almost no "promising" mons in SM.
Here is the list of UU+ stuffs

Tapus (OU/Uber)
UBs(UU to Uber)
Sol/Lun(Uber)
Salazzle (UU to OU)
Toxapex (Probably OU)
Anchor (UU at best)
Kommo-o(Probably OU)
Alolan Muk (UU to OU)
Pyukumuku ( Klefki annoyance-tier )
And that's honestly all.

Shiinotic (RU to Uber, depending on the moveset, I didn't saw it yet)

>>29764112
check out thunderblunder's video, he says it has a shot at being OU viable:
>Hurricane
>Knock Off
>Defog
>U-turn to maintain momentum
>Can't be trapped by dugtrio
>Reliable recovery

>>29765802
>WAHHHH MEGA-GLALIE WILL BE BROKENNNN
Déjà vu

>>29765544
reminder that Fini should not run Scald since it cant burn shit unless it runs Telepathy, which is decent for VGC

>>29765902
Alolan Muk REALLY depends on which abilities it can take, and whether or not it happens in singles.

I mean, if it can take fucking Huge Power or Wonder Guard...

>>29765957
>400 BP Electric Type Move
>Off of 120 Atk
>Not fucking rediculous

>>29765816
That doesn't mean you should populate a region with shitmon and say hey, now you're at the end take these mons you can only get one of ever and just smash shit with them. Seriously, it's like they only focused on buffing old shit and completely forgot about the new stuff.

>>29764862
You could use agility/sticky web?

>>29765974
Yeah, but its movepool and typing are good. I think it can be a very good mon depending on the Meta.

>>29765957
This thing has a stronger than pre-gen 5 explosion that doesn't kill you and then it can actually explode on you.

Mind you, I'm not saying it'll be broken, but it's a very different situation.

Is there a pastebin of the competitive changes?

>>29760426
I-I mean if you could only use alolan pokemon including the forms and not counting UBs or legendaries competative might be something.

>>29766042
Sorry, I was more so meaning that if Alolan Muk can copy broken abilities in singles, he's going to end up in Ubers.

He's going to be OU no matter what at this point, which is pretty cool.

>>29766001
Just reminds me something: does Z-moves cancel Explosion's suicide effect ? If not it's trash in Singles.

Silvally looks like a cool mon. Might make it to OU or at least UU/BL. Shame about its physical movepool.

>>29765973
Fini can still burn non-grounded stuff

>>29765840
>At least Extreme Speed is STAB.
If anything that is almost even better, shed the Fire typing if you see a Water or Ground coming your way. Being able to freely changing your typing without wasting a turn is a godsend.

>>29765902
>Kommo-o(Probably OU)
No way in hell with that speed.

>>29766001
Just reminds me something: does Z-moves cancel Explosion's suicide effect ? If not it's trash in Singles and if yes it's gimmicky.
Can be good in VGC

>>29766082
Oh ok, sorry.
I don't really see it being Uber but it might happen yeah.

>>29765957
>>29766050

It's not stronger than Pre-Gen 5 - it's only 390 BP, but it is Electric Type and doesn't kill you.

It's pretty good all things considered, and will end up in at least UU.

>>29766204
You are forgetting the -ate boost.

>>29766130
I wouldn't say that. It has an awesome movepool and good defensive stats.
But yeah, It's only my opinion, anything could happen.
It all depends on the future Meta's "threats", but it has the stats and movepool to be OU.

>>29766103
>>29766138

Z-Moves completely override the original attack, so yeah, there's no suicide effect.

Galvanize also affects Z-Moves, so it gets the buff of a life-time.

Basically he gets a NUKE from the very first turn he's out, and then he can use Explosion later when he wants to. He's pretty much guaranteed to take an opponent with him.

Oh, and switching in a Ground Type doesn't work perfect, because Z-Moves bypass immunities to do 1/4 damage. A 97 BP move coming off of 120 Atk is still nothing to scoff at.

>>29766229
Whatever if it's 500 Bp or 3000 Bp, if it dies while launching it, it's trash in OU Singles

So does Liquid Voice have a stat boost?

If not, is this one of the most useless abilities ever (besides shit like Illuminate)? Is it THE most useless?

>>29765375
Good luck setting up a Nasty Plot with that horrible bulk.

>>29766329
Ok Ignore my post, i wanted to know that.
It's actually very strong
>>29766325
>Z-Moves completely override the original attack, so yeah, there's no suicide effect.

>Tapu Koko doesn't learn Play Rough

Bravo Gamefreak

>>29766229
No, that was the -ate boost too.

Explosion gets turned into
>Breakneck Blitz (200 Power)

Galvanize turns Breakneck Blitz into an Electric Type Attack.

Stab makes it 300 BP.

-ate/ize boost brings it up to 390 BP.

So basically Golem trades up his item for a fuck huge attack that not even immunities or protect can put a full stop to.

And then he can still explode.

>>29766388
>What is forcing a switch
If shittier stuff can do it then so can this thing.

What about Flygon?

>>29766359
It would be good if it got Boomburst. As it stands though its garbage yeah

>>29766359
It does not.

Yes it is absolutely useless.

>>29765487
Heatran and Arceus aren't in the Sinnoh dex

>>29766464
>>29766472
>Hyper Voice

>>29766452
The little fucker got Dragon Dance.

>>29766452
I fear GF did too little too late regarding Dragon Dance. Sort of like how Flareon got Flare Blitz at the worst possible time too

>>29766432
What Ground types survive this?

>>29766486
Scald literally has the exact same power and can burn.

Surf is literally stronger.

>>29766472
These starters aren't shit, they actually are insulting.

>>29766486
Literally just use Surf.

>>29766486
Literally Surf with 8 less PP

>>29766432
It is still 4x ground weak and piss slow and it's best offense is a one time 97BP attack on one of the most traditionally physically defensive typings in the game.

It's a gimmick.

>>29766130
>600 BST
>80 Speed; 70 HP

_________maybe____

>>29766486

>What is Surf
>What is Scald

come on anon - I wanted to like the starters, but they're all shit.

>>29766486
>has the same power as Surf

Its only mildly interesting for VCG, which it probably isn't good enough to compete in

>>29766518
>>29766523
>>29766527
Bypasses subs.

Wait does the Popplio get Scald?

If it doesn't it's instant NU.

>>29766566
Yeah it does, but it's basically a RU/UU-tier mon just like the other two starters

>>29766544
So what? Torrent might be more usable. Actually, if it got Agility, I'd try to relive SubPetaya Empoleon or something of the sort.

>>29766527
>1.3x boost

Who got double wall ? A-Ninetales ?
And Laser Focus ?

>>29766566
>Wait does the "Water Pokemon that isn't Ice-type" get Scald?

Dumbest question I've heard today

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Spectral Thief
What about the last move? Poison Jab? Wisp?

>>29766517
Almost all of them - Z-Moves do 1/4 damage to immunities and protect effects.

It just means it's not a FREE switch in.

>>29766529
Obviously it's not amazing or broken or anything, but it's a good buff where he needed it. Ground types are also not terribly defensive by themselves, you're thinking of Rock or Steel.

Just kill the Ground type on the opponent's team, and you get a free kill is basically what Golem is. He'll end up in UU.

>>29766633
Shadow Sneak nigga.

>>29766622
>I can't read the thread because I'm a faggot

>>29766633
Depends on what you want to do. You can Technician Shadow Sneak if there's something you need it for.

>>29766539
Basically has to compete with Tapu Fini for the Water/Fairy slot but doesn't have half the utility. Fini has better defenses an ability which boosts it's main offense grants status immunity, renders dragons impotent and a fixed damage attack.

Primarina literally has no niche.

>>29766595
>other two
That owl isn't going to break RU.

>>29766632
Nigger the rules are thrown out the door this gen. This is the same Pokemon with a literal useless HA.

>>29766633
Considering how fantastic that already is, I figure anything could go in that last slot that your teammates don't do well

Give it a few years before we see it, however

>>29766687
This.

>>29766595
Decidueye isn't staying in RU, what with being able to TrapPass SD or NP.

Incineroar is going to end up in NU or BL3, since he's complete shit.

Sexy Seal is going to end up in RU for sure - it's stats are too solid for NU, and it's too shit for UU.

>>29766645
>Ground types are also not terribly defensive by themselves
What did he mean by this ?

>>29766665
>>29766686
Oh shid I must've over looked that. This thing's gonna be amazing.

>>29766688
The Owl gets baton pass and has useable defensive stats and roost - he's would centralize the fuck out of RU.

>>29766688
In the time it took you to write that dumb response you could have actually looked it up for yourself and seen that the Prima line does in fact learn Scald

>>29766725
It will. I'd dare say it's the best Gen 7 Pokemon. There's literally not a single bad thing about it. Good stats, movepool, type and ability. Also, cute as fuck and nice design.

I'd even say it's better than the UBs.

>>29766533
>>29766280
>dual walled by fairies
>no good fighting moves
>Slower than Hydreigon and with less damage+coverage
>Slower and weaker than Haxorus
>only ten more attack than Flygon
>defensive mon stats with no recovery
>pretty mediocre defensive typing
It will take Tyrantrum's place in BL2 at best.

why is everything so fucking slow

>>29766687
was thinking the same thing. Hell, if you really want to even Telepathy works well. Water Hyper Voice is not enough of a niche to beat that

>>29766764
UB-02 Beauty is probably better, especially with Psychic Terrain support

>>29766633
Pursuit
Shadow Sneak

>>29766799
It's not

>>29766767
Marshadow stole everyone's Speed.

>>29766738
Usable defensive stats doesn't mean shit without a usable defensive typing.

I can only see this thing with a scarf, but even then his mixed spread makes that so much less impactful.

Also keep in mind this is the same tier with Regi/Alo core.

>>29766767
I will probably just meme on people with Drum Autotomize Kommo-o. Other sets are probably better but at least this'll be kinda funny.

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YOU HAVE LESS THAN TEN SECONDS TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU DON'T THINK MARSHADOW IS THE DOPEST MOTHERFUCKER ON THE PLANET

>>29766822
Kek

>>29766818
>137 offenses
>151 Speed, barely outspeeding fucking everything
>Bug/Fighting/Ice coverage
it probably is

>>29766846
Ghost grass is great defensively what are you taking about.

>>29766846
>scarf
>Lock + Batonpass/Lock + SD/NP
What did he mean by this ?

>>29766645
>Ground types are also not terribly defensive by themselves, you're thinking of Rock or Steel.
No I'm not.

Even disincluding the new Gen 7 out of the mons from previous gens there are 16 fully evolved Ground types available with 100+ defense, most of them with a decent HP stat. This completely disregards stuff like Landorus-T/Krookodile who only come slightly short of 100 defense but have Intimidate as well.

Of course not every single one is relevant but you'd be VERY hard pressed to not find a commonly used Ground type that couldn't take a physical 97BP attack.

>>29760426
>/vp/
>/veepee/
>Actually
>ACTUALLY (actually)
>discussing what they think will work in the meta

I fucking can't even.
Who the FUCK should ever listen to anything /vp/ has to say in this regard?

Why don't you dumb fucks remind me how shit Talonflame in gen 6 is gonna be again?

How about mega sableye and how it won't amount to shit because it doesn't have prankster?

Oh wait I fucking got it.
Tell me how fucking broken Krookodile is gonna be in gen 5 because of Moxie

None of you faggots know shit. None of you will ever know shit.
Get the FUCK out of sub 1200 elo before you say anymore stupid shit.

>>29766846
Did you literally forget that he can trap whatever the fuck he wants and pass whatever boost he wants?

>>29766883
It's frail as fuck, while Marshadow gets litterally everything.
Both of them are strong as fuck, but I think Marshadow is superior

>>29766857
He's gonna be busted.

>>29766903
You're right, I was thinking of shit like Dugtrio and Marowak.

Everyone can take the attack, they're just not going to like it - especially when almost none of them have any reliable recovery.

>>29766892
What fucking drugs are you on?

It resists ONE common type (ground) and is weak to the rest of the common types. \

>>29766894
>>29766936
>le lock gimmick
Can't wait for someone to get this on a 1000 shitter and claim it's broken.

>>29766924
t. 1300 elo

>>29766846
>trappass will be allowed in RU

I don't think you play RU.

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>>29766857
>Technician Pursuit
>Technician Shadow Sneak
>Technician Force Palm

>>29766977
You don't even know what a gimmick is.
We never said it was broken, we said it was too strong for RU. It'll die in BL/UU

>>29767031
Spidna gets Contrary Superpower. It's complete trash.

Want to know why?

>shit typing
>has one gameplan
>shit stats
This is literally the owl.

>>29766892
Not him, but Ghost/Grass is literally just a slightly better Psychic/Grass, which is the second worst defensive typing in the game.

>>29766977
Almost nothing in RU is going to be able to deal with it anon, to the point that it's going to centralize the tier around it and who it passes to. It'll get it's shit kicked in in UU, but RU can't handle it.

>>29767080
>comparing Spinda stats with the owl ones.
I don't argue with idiots.

>>29767111
>Almost nothing in RU is going to be able to deal with it anon
How would you know?

90% of Gen VII is going to be RU with these shit speed tiers, we don't know the full RU meta just yet.

>>29767124
>what's an example
I don't converse with morons.

>>29766857
Does it change colors when attacking? The model is colored while the sprite is all black

>>29766977
it resists Water and is immune to Fighting anon.

>>29767163
Watch kaphotic's video.

>>29766977
>Resists ONE common type
It resists Water, Ground, Electric, and is immune to Fighting

>>29767251
Ah yes, the rampant Water and Electric-type moves.

How could I forget.

>>29767080
Jesus christ anon, you're retarded.

Do you know how many Pokemon actually get access to Baton Pass, Nasty Plot, and Sword Dance?

Literally just Mew.

The Owl trades up typing and some HP for the chance to trap someone else, or to scare them into making a switch while he gets a free boost. He's too good for RU.

>>29766883
Pheromosa is pretty much just a even more extreme minmaxed Mega-Beedrill, faster but weaker.

>>29767277
Fucking Scald and Volt Switch you bitch

>>29767277
Yeah how could you those are one of the most common attacking types.

>>29767277
>Thinking Fighting or Ground isn't a common type
>What is Scald
>What is literally every team having BoltBeam in some form

Now you're just baiting.

>>29767111
>Psychic/Grass, which is the second worst defensive typing in the game.
Don't even try going there, it's not remotely close for worst defensive typings, at least Grass/Psychic gives you pivotal resists.

There are some type combinations out there that give you virtually no resists and just a bunch of weaknesses.

>>29767301
wow....one example.....

you forgot....shock wave....

>>29767308
Amazing meme, can I save it?

>>29767284
Torkoal has Shell Smash, and so does Cloyster!

Torkoal for OU!

>>29767333
I said those first two were common you mong.

>le scald
Ice beam, and the owl is dead. This mon can't switch in on that shit. Plain and simple.

>>29767111
Yes Psychic / Grass is the worst typing. Nothing has ever been OU with that typing, much less something that is defensive

>>29767397
Anon, the only typing that's (arguably) worse than Psychic/Grass is Ice/Grass, and MAYBE Grass/Rock.

Psychic/Grass is absolute shit.

>>29764862
I would probably say Wishiwashi for it superior bulk, but Vika could work as a special nuke

>>29767423
>electric and water not being one of the most common attacking types

please stop talking about shit you clearly know nothing about