Competitive Starter Thread

On an objective standing, this is the viability rating from best to worst.

Decidueye > Incineroar > Primarina.

Decidueye will easily be a beast with its powerful offensive and defensive stats, while Primarina is doomed to linger down in the depths of NU.

>>29742068
Shacklepass is probably the best use for Decidueye. Give it a bulky spread, trap something passive, then pass the trap to a sweeper who can set up with impunity.

Nah, Decideye has a million weaknesses and low defence. Primarina has the highest Sp.Attack and Sp.Defence of all starters. It could make a bulky sweeper.

>>29742559
>anything used a physical move
>primarina died
It's shit.

>>29742586

Ebin.

>>29742586
>Anything used physical move
>Owl dead

>>29742068
Incineroar is gonna excel in doubles. Intimidate, Fake Out, High Bulk, and Power to back it up.

>>29742156
>all this delusion

water hyper voice with potential 30% buff
scald as usual
moon blast
ice beam
fucking energy ball

the soloist is looking good to me

>>29742586
The owl actually has worse physical bulk than Primarina

>>29742156
You are being retarded, Decidueye is about 5 speed faster than what we thought it was. This doesn't make a difference. Its HA is not a gamechanger.

Incineroar is one of the very few fire types that's legal for VGC17, has 95/90/90 defenses which is pretty solid and has fake out. Also slow enough to work in trick room. It will see some use in VGC17, kind of like defensive Arcanine.

Primerina's HA is quite good since if it gives the -iate boost it makes hyper voice a split target 100acc hydro pump. Her defenses are kind of bad though, Milotic will probably cuck her out of the bulky water role in VGC17.

>>29742738
But is 10 faster!
Unless your threat at hand is Incineroar, you are better switching if you find a physical attacker.
Same as Prima.

>>29742068
Incineroar is decent in Doubles.
Primarina is pretty good for 1v1.
Decidueye is shit.

>>29742068
Primarina is clearly the strongest.

It's a Special WALL with a good typing. Liquid voice means it can fire off 120bp Stab Hyper voice that cuts through substitute. add decent coverage in ice beam and energy ball.

Yes it will get wrecked by a poison jab or iron head. But it can take special attacks, and that's what swaps are for.

>>29742949
I wouldn't assume anything.
It hasn't gone well for anyone.

>>29742949

Primarina isn't weak to Steel.

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>>29742068

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>>29742068
>>29742068

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>>29742068
>>29742068
>>29742068

>Incineroar is Emboar 2.0

Well I guess I'm not choosing any starter this gen.

>>29743138
Incineroar is a hell of a lot more viable. It has an excellent kit to be a bulky bruiser.

Without the shading, they look straight out of Sonic Boom.

>>29743056
I still love the owl but he does seem pretty shit. I don't think he's a complete disaster but he's not OU and probably won't be meta for doubles either. Just doesn't bring enough to the table, only reason to use him is if you have a strategy built around trapping.

>>29742068
>Defensive Pivot Robinhoot
Spirit Shackles, Baton Pass, Defog , Roost.

>>29743056
>Was fucking excited when people where saying Spirit Shackle was a priority move
>Instead the only one it gets is Sucker Punch to make up for it's sad speed
At least it get's Roost in the end. Not too sure if Baton Pass worth breeding given it's got U-Turn anyway, and at least it gets Leaf Blade.

>>29743226
Doubles with Gumshoos?

>>29743226
We'll see him the most based solely on his ability to act as a bulk Defogger.

>>29743293
Baton Pass + Spirit Shackles.

>>29743133
I fucking knew it. Death sentence stats.

>>29743056
>>29743091
>>29743133
Wait, ALL OF THEM ARE SLOW? What the fuck? The only one who could have been good while slow is slutseal.

>>29743091
Toxic,energy ball,hyper voice and moonblast(maybe shadowB,psychic,protect or scald coming somewhere) and leftovers,assault vest or choice specs who knows,has a decent typing and the HA is not so bad

>>29743319
>bulk
You sure about that?

>>29743170
Such as a horrific defensive typing! And, uh

>>29742775
>VGC17
>Mattering

>>29743170

You mean the same kit that Emboar does, but with less coverage moves?

>b-but Leech Life

because an un STAB bug move resisted by everyone is so good, right?

Inceneroar will be lucky to make it out of NU.

>>29742559
>That thing's speed
>Sweeper

>>29743319
>bulk Defogger
He won't be even in the top 3 bird defoggers. He isn't going to be better than Skarmory, Mandibuzz or Zapdos at defogging. And even if you don't want any of them, he is still competing with Lati@s and Mew for that spot.

>>29742799
>But is 10 faster!
Yah guys that 70 speed stat is really going to make a difference!

>>29743091
>No recover

Into the trash it goes

One key thing to note, you should probably build around a team and items rather than what we just know. Apparently we don't know like 90% of the Z-Moves, including, but not limited to Primarina and Incineroar's Z-Moves, which might make them redeemable. Or if there's some stupid interaction with Z-Curse or something that suddenly makes Decidueye better than the Anchor.

>>29743391
He won't be a tank but 78/75/100 isn't too shabby.
If he doesn't end up OU he'll end up UU based on his ability to shut down common defensive mons like Jellycent and Regenerate abusers.

>>29743579
Do we even fucking know yet if you're allowed to use more then a SINGLE Z-Move if you have more then one Z-Crystal on your team?
Like, this is the cruncher, as Mega's are shit BECAUSE of the locking out of all other mega's once you use them. So you only ever use the BEST Mega. If Z-Moves let OTHER Z-Moves be used as well, then they are the game changer Gamefreak wanted afterall.

>>29743624
Would you call infernape a tank? It only has 2 less HP, 4 less defense and 29 less special defense.

>>29743624
Honestly I could see him in UU but he is absolutely not OU. Unless like this anon says >>29743579 there's some z-move interaction that gives him crazy boosts like z-curse boosts all his stats or something.

>>29742068
What can I see from them is:
Incineroar: Bulk Bruiser, niche use due to bad defensive typing.

Primarina: Special Wall, pretty good defensive types, has access to decent moves.

Decidueye: Defogger, too bad there are much better defogger options, and the only thing Decidueye has as advantage is Spirit Shackle.

>>29743705
You have to take typing into account. Fire/Fight is a poor defensive typing. Ghost/Grass is good.
>Resists EQ and Scald, immune to Fighting. Can't be Spored. Can't be trapped.
Granted as a Grass type it's weak to Ice Beam and Fire attacks but any Water type that wants to switch in on him has to be wary of Leaf Blade/Energy Ball.
Despite common beliefs otherwise, base stats are NOT everything.

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>>29743056
I'm currently asking myself the question, would Trevenant have any use without Harvest, and I'm not coming up with anything other than Trevenant being cool.

>>29744054
Why would literally any water type ever try to switch in on him? For the sake of taking things into account, you usually assume either the best or worst case scenario for yourself against a competent player who knows what they're doing. Which is why things like being good ingame don't matter.

>>29744072
Trevant doesn't have Roost or Defog.

>>29743056
>>29743133
>Owl gets Sucker Punch
>The dark type doesn't

WHAT THE FFFFFFFF

>>29744174
Incineroar also doesn't get Knock Off despite being of the Knock Off type. So its Dark STAB is below par.

>>29744174
Either they get, much like greninja, an expanded movepool on the next remakes, or they are here just to make Gen V startes look good.

Incineroar could do some work as a psuedo arcanine in low uu, good coverage, intimidate, and recovery in the form of leech life. Might be best just to slap a choice band on em and go all out

Primarina is really just a bad milotic when you get right down to it, i dont think it will be doing much

Rowlet is just fucked to rot alongside the likes of meganium

Decidueye=Grassy Scouting Mesprit
Incineroar=Worse Arcanine w/dark STAB
Primarina=Special Attacking Chesnaught I guess
That's how I see it. It's a real shame how Incineroar and Primarina are just outclassed already existing Pokemon. And I'm not just saying this because I was an Owlfag since day 1. Incineroar doesn't do much that Arcanine doesn't outside of decently stong Knock offs and can break past the few Bulk up users that aren't resistant to Dark. Primarina is just another bulky water type we see all the time in OU/UU. And since we already have an offensive fairy and the Tapus are more than likely going OU, Primarina is most likely going to UU/RU. At least with Decidueye, it has great utility moves that match its balanced stats. It also has a good type advantage to some OU mons like Breloom, Celebi, Rotom-Wash, Starmie/Slowbro, all the utility defensive grass types like Ferrothorn (and it can freely attack Ferrothorn without getting hurt by iron barbs) Hippo, Azumaril, the Tapus (if they all are OU), etc. it's the best contender for OU

>>29744254
Greninja basically only got like 2 moves in ORAS though. It had most of the tools it needed in XY.

>>29744254
Trannyseal can't be worse than Samurott.

>>29744356
>decently strong Knock offs
A-anon...

>>29744358
Gunk Shot alone gave him such a huge boost though.

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>>29743056
>100 SpA
>90% of attacks are physical
>Ability is leagues more useful for physical moves
>70 Spe

>>29744526
You do see that his physical attack is higher right?

>>29744356
Wait a minute. Incineroar doesn't get knock off.
To NU and Below with you.

>>29744583
It's 100 wasted stat points.

>>29744522
Yeah, but Gunk Shot was only part of the package. He was good in XY base Gen 6 meta too. Spikes, hidden power and Shadow Sneak put in a lot of work.

>>29744358
Gunk shot threw it into ubers though.
If primarina gets recovery, incineroar knock off or whatever decidueye needs it can make them usefull.

>>29744609
I'm just hoping for UU/niche OU and to rescue them all from NU and bellow.

Decidueye could work with a set like this:

Roost
U-Turn
Leaf Blade
Spirit Shackle

Max HP investment and the rest split between special defense and attack. Switch into special attackers that don't instantly kill you, Roost damage or trap with Spirit Shackle, or switch out with U-Turn.

It doesn't seem like it'll be an awful pivot and Spirit Shackle might be able to net some surprise KOs if the opponent expects a U-turn, so it'll probably have a niche it can call its own.

Incineroar and Primarina on the other hand just seem like bad versions of Emboar or Arcanine/Milotic respectively.

>>29744526
>>29744606
>107 Atk
>Ability is leagues more useful for physical moves
>Signature move is physical
>Gets both Swords Dance and nasty Plot
What is mixed attacking!

>>29744054
Ghost/Grass is 'meh' at best for any purpose.

>>29744676
Decidueye is now Slowfernape I guess. Infernape does have similar stats to Azelf and Decidueye has similar stats to Mespirt.

>>29744254
> incineroar doesnt get sucker punch or knock off in gen4 remakes
I already hate what gf did to him (80 spatk? that coulda been 45 spatk and 95 speed at least) but that'll just fucking suck

>>29744676
>What is mixed attacking!
Absolutely horrible especially on a slow Pokemon with ONLY low-BP moves, not even Leaf Storm?

>>29744676
The only special set I could see someone running with this thing is Nasty Plot Solar Beam on a sun team. Unless there's going to be a good Pokemon that this thing counters with it's special moves, I just can't see anyone not going for the physical moveset.

>>29742156
>this denial

Your shitmon owl will rot in the depths of NU, if not PU. Primarina will be the one to maybe reach OU.

if Liquid Voice does give sound moves a boost like Pixilate does, then a Choice Specs Primarina would be pretty good I think

>>29743133
>>29743056
as an owlfag it makes me mad that incineroar doesn't learn suckerpunch, literally garbage.

worse version of arcanine with knock off.

>>29743091
>87.5 M
B A S E D G A M E F R E A K

>>29744806
It doesn't need high attack when it can trap the opposing mon and take it's time fainting them.

>>29744962
all of them are PU, let's be fucking real. >>29744975

>>29744806
The highest BP moves Hoopa-U had were Gunk Shot and Hyperspace Fury. All its other moves it used are around 80 BP, and it was a slow mixed attacker, but that thing became Ubers.

>>29743056
Singles

>>29743133
VGC

>>29743091
The bedroom

Are we agreed?

>>29744739
Infernape has very high BP moves that help it perform as mixed - with Flare Blitz, Close Combat, Stone Edge and Earthquake on the physical side and Overheat on the special, it can actually fully-invest into one side to get proper power out of it while still being a threat on the other side.

Decidueye's only good high BP move is Brave Bird, which is non-STAB. Everything else (unless you count Solar Beam and Frenzy Plant) is sub-100. Decidueye can't even become very strong on its fully-invested side, let alone splitting its EVs.

>>29744975
>Grass/Ghost
what mon is it going to be trapping that won't immediately force it out?

>>29744671
If Primarina gets recovery it's still not much better than any of the other dozen bulky waters. Like, what reason is there to use it over the Tapu?

Decidueye needs a complete rehaul to make it better than the other two slow and bulky mixed ghost/grass types who have actual abilities.
Incineroar wouldn't have any reason to be used over arcanine or emboar. If the only reason becomes knock-off, there are a dozen bulkier or better typed dark types.

>>29743402
It at least matters more than Smogon :^)

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>>29742068
Seriously, what are these fucking stats? Did Game Freak have stroke and decide that Gen I was the epitome of stat-spreads or something?

>>29744962
>The versatile (with the likes of Defog, Nasty Dance Pass, Trapping Moves, Roost, balanced stats, etc) Pokemon with a type advantage against tons of OU mons
>PU
>Pokemon that we already know is outclassed by 2 Pokemon of the same type
>OU
Your denial is worse

>>29745214
>70 speed and 70 defense on a Grass type mixed attacker

>>29745034
Ferrothorn
Even gyroball won't hurt it much :^)

>>29745214
>type advantage against tons of OU mons
Like what? Breloom ?
Everything either runs either knock of or other dark moves like crunch, or they run fire moves for scizor.
It either get outsped and killed or the other mon lives the hit and kills it or at least roar it out.
Let's face it, all of them are irredeemable with shit states like these, non of them is making it past lower UU.

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>>29743056
>Grass type mixed attacker
>Doesn't get Growth

>>29745034
Any traps it gets will be peripheral because the normal bulky switch ins, Ferrothorn, Venusaur, Slowbro, etc etc., wouldn't switch in.
Frail attackers, Alakazam, fear Sucker Punch.
Give him a Colbur Berry and T-tar

I see it like this:
>Opponent switched out Ferrothorn
>Scizor used U-Turn
>Go, Robinhoot!

Now your opponent has to switch or risk Ferrothorn getting trapped or risk letting Robinhoot set up a Swords Dance.

>>29745781
>Gets Work Up

>>29744526
This. It's like Gamefreak's fucking it on purpose.

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>>29745867
It's almost like they've been doing it since gen 1

>>29743056
>>29743091
>owl gets sucker punch, tiger doesn't
>tiger has better special moves than the mixed attacker owl

did the entire dev team just fucking give up and go to lunch and make the janitor finish the starters? what the fuck shit is this

>>29746019
where have you been the past fucking 20 years? Gamefreak has always done this shit.

>>29746046
They gave Infernape literally everything, anon.

>>29745867
>Gamefreak makes the pokemon weak on purpose so that they can figure out how to buff them next gen without going overboard
One can only hope.

Incineroar not getting Sucker Punch is particularly egregious. It fits his lore perfectly.

>>29745537
Slowbro
Starmie
Azumaril
Rocky Helmet/Rough Barbs/Spore users
Hippo
Keldeo
Defensive Landorus
Mew/Celebi/Jirachi
Rotom-Wash
Serperior (sort of. Needs a scarf or AV to switch in)
Mega Venusaur (depending on your set)

>>29746215
>Sucker Punch
>JP name Sneak Attack
I don't think Tony the Tiger is capable of being sneaky. Going by the JP name it makes better sense on the Sniper Owl.

>>29746215
Sucker Punch in Japan means Cross-Road killing (or something like that). Heel wrestlers are just actors dude.

>>29746424
Wait nvm, that's night slash.

>>29743056
>>29743091
>>29743133
>70
>60
>60
welp...so much for this gen's starters

>>29742068
Thoughts on how they'll do in VGC? I think Incineroar and Primarina will at least be useable.

>>29746424
thats night slash

>>29746341
He cant switch into 50% of those
And most of those carry knock off even Vensaur carries knock off occasionally

>>29746391
>wrestlers can't use sneak attacks

>>29746670
The point is to use him with VoltTurns.
Every time your opponent switches, you send out Robinhoot and force a switch or trap them.

>>29747072
>wrestlers can't use sneak attacks
GF thinks so.

>>29746341
>starting with Starmie
Starmie will kill every one of these starters outright, without a change.

>>29742068
what im seeing is
>owl
shitty stat distribution like expected
will probably be like bl2 level because spirit shackle on a bulky passing set is too good for ru, but i dont see it having much utility in uu
its godlike movepool mostly cant be properly utilized because of that
kind of a weirder celebi, similar strengths and weaknesses with worse stats
>el gato
fucking great pivot, but got a semi-gimped moveset that might keep it out of ou due to not getting any of the good dark type utility moves aside from taunt
but surprisingly gets intimturn which may be its saving grace because autoswitch intimidate is actually that good
will likely be great in doubles just because of its movepool and stats
i really dont know what to compare it to, its like a fusion of lando and krookodile with fire typing, super unique
>seal
is actually not the worst thing in the world despite the doomsaying
on paper it looks like a shittier milotic, but it has WAY better utility as a tank than milotic does because of its huge spa, typing and coverage
moonblast, scald, ice beam, shadow ball has great coverage, and it also gets energy ball and psychic for niche substitutions
has a pretty great support movepool which is unfortunate given its sad physical bulk and lack of recovery, since it very likely wont be able to utilize most of them
also does not get cm which means resttalk is out of the question, so limited, but not necessary bad, probably low uu

its not anywhere near as bad as gen v

>Catfags and Sealfags have resigned themselves like decent people
>Owlfags won't accept reality and will try and Electivire Owl into OU

>>29747303
>el gato
>fucking great pivot
Nope. It's just worst Arcanine. High ladder RU, low Ladder UU

>owl
>shitty stat distribution
Nope. It's just worse Celebi. Has field day with defensive pivots and a niche as hazard control. Solid UU, low ladder OU

>seal
>is actually not the worst thing
True. Based on Fairy typing has a niche in OU. Liquid Voice boosted Hyper Voice gives it power even uninvested. Solid OU.

>>29747801
>Owl in high UU low OU.
I'm gonna try to believe you're not an owlfag in denial and wait for you to explain why Decidueye is UU/OU when it needs to set up with a shitty typing like that to be somewhat "usefull".

>>29744975
>take it's time fainting them

Not with all them super effective weakness.

>>29747801
Okay as an owlfag im going to beat some sense into you.

Devidueye is getting into UU at best. AT BEST.

The best thing is he is physical Empoleon without the good typing. Empoleon is able to keep being good because he's bulky as fuck and has fantastic special attack. Decidueye lacks the bulk and good defensive typing and just barely makes his special attack by being physically focused instead.

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>>29747303
That's probably the best summary for the Gen VII starters.
Overall, still a bit disappointing imo.

>>29746341
All these OU mons he checks might not agree with you.

>Slowbro
>Starmie
>Azumaril
>Rocky Helmet/Rough Barbs/Spore users
>Hippo
>Keldeo
>Defensive Landorus
>Mew/Celebi/Jirachi
>Rotom-Wash
>Serperior
>Mega Venusaur

>>29750163
Every one of these starters dies to Starmie. That doesn't fit anyone's definition of a check.

>>29750713
You don't know how checks work, do you?

>>29750713
Except Primarina.

>>29751602
>Pokemon faints
>you send out Decidueye to "check" Starmie
>it dies before acting
>this is a check

>>29752284
>Robinhoot used Sucker Punch!
>Starmie fainted!
Nice check.

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>>29743091
So basically a slower and slightly stronger Gardevoir in terms of stats, complete with a potential Water -iate? Not bad, honestly.

>>29752442
It's a different flavor of gardevoir or Milotic. And if it gets Water-ate, then that's definitely something nice. I am surprised at how many people are complaining about slow speed on a wall.

>>29752442
I'm not convinced the HA actually works like the type-iate abilities. The ability would need that to be of any use of course, but Game Freak is Game Freak.

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>>29753175
>The ability would need that to be of any use of course, but Game Freak is Game Freak.