is he, dare i say it, the very best trainer in the canon?

>>29688802
No Gold is because he beat Red

>>29688802
How dare you

>only 4 pokemon

lmao

>>29688807
It is stated that he confronts Red, not that he beats him. But let's say he actually beat him, why then we never see Silver/Gold referenced anywhere?

>>29688828
>end credits when you beat Red
>not there if you lose
Because GameFreak doesn't acknowledge anyone but Red

>>29688828
Gamefreak doesn't like making canon protag genders and teams

>>29688802
Yes, actually. Red, canonically, is the strongest.
I'm so glad they named that loser from anime Ash instead of Red.
To Ethanfags, Ethan's adventure ended when he beat Lance. If he had actually challenged Red, he would've had his team swept by a fucking Pikachu.

>>29688802
>Best trainer
>Three starters
>No Poli
Game Red is shit. SHIT.

File: 1477937366965.png (1MB, 1280x1810px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x1810px

>>29688935
>shit

No. Game Freak just likes dick riding Gen 1. Pretty much every protagonist that came after him has more significant feats under their belt.

>>29688802
I don't know if the best but for sure the sexiest ;)

>>29688802
He hasn't even saved the world from a legendary pokemon

>>29688828
By that logic every protagonist collected their starter, walked out onto the first route and then just stopped forever.

I could say Gold never collected his third badge and just bred thousands of Oddishes forever because you don't have to keep progressing.

>>29688802
No, not even close

>>29688802

If the PWT is anything to go by, the B/W2 protags.

>>29688807
Yeah, but only Gold and Red were there to witness the battle and Red doesn't say anything. Who would believe Gold?

>>29689270
>If the PWT is anything to go by, the B/W2 protags.
>When PWT literally treats him as the strongest trainer

>>29689293

It just considers him a Champion.

>>29689272
It's not even a matter of believing. That is a post postgame battle. That is about as canon as BW protagonist catching Kyurem.

File: 1446866483824.gif (797KB, 583x328px) Image search: [Google]

797KB, 583x328px

>>29688802
>Pokemon
>"canon"

>>29689303
Kanto in GS is more like the Delta Episode than optional extras like PWT.

>>29688822
He has 6. Blue/Green also has 6

>Greatest trainer according to GameFreak: Red
>Greatest trainer according to the fanbase: Cynthia
>Greatest trainer according to accomplishments: Nate/Rosa
>Greatest trainer according to Blue: Blue

>>29689534
Cynthia only gets noted for her looks and "muh hard battle" that kids couldn't beat with just their starter.

File: 1478350841551.png (133KB, 313x382px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 313x382px

>>29689534
>Greatest trainer according to accomplishments: Nate/Rosa

>>29689331
Any particular reason to believe that? Delta Episode actually prevents you from accessing the postgame until you complete it. It's built into the story. That isn't the case with Kanto. You have access to everything the moment you beat Lance.

>>29688807
The B/W2 trainer beat all of the champions, e4s and Red.

>>29689708
>>29688807
Red is the only canon protagonist.

>>29688822
It's six, the image is about to show this

>>29689662
>end credits after the fight
>not built into the story

>>29689293
No it doesn't?

>>29689832
You can get end credits anytime you beat E4. They will even have different teams this time around, so it's not the same. Getting the credits the second time really doesn't matter.

>>29689583
Do I need to remind you?
>assuming PWT is canon, they defeat every single Gym Leader and Champion (using their serious teams, at that) as of Generation 5, including Red, they would have fought Hilbert/Hilda too
>defeats Fused Kyurem and Ghetsis without using a Legendary Dragon compared to H/H fighting N and Ghetsis with a Dragon
>demolishes Team Plasma for good thanks to their victory causing Ghetsis to go so far off into insanity he can't do shit anymore
Sure, they don't go after Fug like Brendan or May, but they still defeated a fuck ton of leaders and champions.

>>29688886
>>29688888

>>29689881
>assuming PWT is canon
Stopped reading right there.

>>29689881
To you I suppose. There is no other instance in the franchise where you get a second set of end credits outside the Delta Episode ending with a "The End" screen so I will count it as significant. Even then I still count a few post-game stuff either way

I'm not the first guy you replied to btw

>>29688886
shit bait

>>29689886
For you.
>>29689935

>>29689935
Redfags forever in denial over based Nate being better

>>29689886
I'd say getting to the Champions Tournament is within the realm of canon, but winning it isn't.

>>29689985
Why?

>>29689977
All the protagonist are player's personifications, not canon, the only who became canon was Red.

Suck it.

>>29689938
>There is no other instance in the franchise where you get a second set of end credits
There is though. You get credits after you beat N in BW, and you also get credits after you beat Alder.
And as far as I recall, no one ever mentions Hilbert's victory over Alder. He is credited for defeating N, not for becoming the Champion.

>>29690018
Because beating the Gym Tournament unlocks new content and new dialog, but winning the Champions Tournament doesn't.

Like, you're acknowledged for beating Black Tower but not for winning the final PWT Tourney

>>29688828
Because Red and Blue are here to pander to nostalgiafags

File: 1344775344723.png (31KB, 209x193px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 209x193px

>>29690024
Ok John Gamefreak, thanks for clairifying.

Can't wait for the Redfag denial in Sun&Moon

All protagonists are at the same skill level since they're player inserts and can only lose to other players outside of the PWT.

>>29690058
What a shit reason

>>29690058
But people literally cheer for a criminal on run in Gym Leaders tournament. I doubt that is canon.

>>29690040
You get end credits when you beat the league every time, which is consistent with the rest of the franchise. And of course people say he becomes the Champion. N was the champ when he lost.

Nobody talks about the Alder fight because after that its not important to discussion

>>29690095
Get over it, pwt results are not canon. Don't know why you guys cling so hard to this.

>>29690103
Ghetsis wasn't, though

File: 1342630485504.jpg (455KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

455KB, 1600x1200px

>>29690140
>Get over it,

Ok Red

>>29690100
I remember this exact comment from another thread so I'm gonna stop you here and say we're gonna continue to disagree on this. And that whether or not its silly doesn't mean much to me. A 12 year old flying into space and going into the earths Magma is super silly to me but that doesn't mean I won't think it happened

>>29690140
Because we disagree with you I think

>>29690148
OK?

>>29690173
You guys have no proof it's canon though. It happens in the game is a shit excuse when it has no consequences even in the game. Shinjo ruins happens in gold and silver but no one really believes that shit happened.

>>29690103
>You get end credits when you beat the league every time
>N was the champ when he lost

But that wasn't a league battle. It took place in N's castle. You were allowed to catch a new Pokemon and even heal before fighting N, something which you can't do once you start the league challenge. N didn't have the Champion title, unlike Blue, who gets the title when you are battling him for the last time.

One thing I noticed when playing BW2 was that almost no one knew about Hilbert. That makes sense, because no one saw him using the Legendary. No one knew who he really was. If he had become the champion, I doubt that would be the case.

>>29690219
>You guys have no proof it's canon though
>It happens in the game is a shit excuse

Stop.

""""Canon"""" became one of those shitty buzzwords without any meaning

>>29690246
Because you have no evidence for your own personal one? Like I said tons of shit technically "happens" in the games. You can save all your casino winnings and buy a porygon. That doesnt mean your character actually did.

>>29690173
>I remember this exact comment from another thread
Huh. It's a more common argument than I thought. Here I thought I was smart for coming up with that.

What about the fact that the allows Red, Blue and Alder, former champions, to enter the Champion's tournament? Blue was a Champion for 10 mere minutes tops.

File: Best trainer.jpg (17KB, 300x394px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 300x394px

Best canon trainer coming thru

>>29690219
What? Tonnes of people believe Sinjoh happened lol. I do as well

You think the only way it can be canon is if every event is loudly proclaimed from the rooftops, when half the in game events aren't. You may as well say no game besides the Red ones are canon because they could have happened with or without the MC.

>>29690288
You simply deciding everything after the league battles is 100% non canon is your own thoughts though

>>29690311
>What about the fact that the allows Red, Blue and Alder, former champions, to enter the Champion's tournament? Blue was a Champion for 10 mere minutes tops.

Actually, you can argue that EVERY champion in Champion's tournament is not a champion anymore, considering they were all beaten by protags of previous games.

>>29689570

>Was 13 when Diamond came out.
>Swept E4 with Dialga
>Couldn't understand why people found her hard.
>If I ever replay 4th gen, I'll likely end up cheesing it by using traded Pokemon for that sweet exp boost.

I'll never know this feel.

>>29690311
In Sun and Moon, Red and Blue still call themselves Champions, so they are still recognized as such

>>29690233
The story slightly shifted events by having the evil team confrontation right after the league. So what?

N beating the Champion doesn't make him the Champion?

As for that last part, everyone talks about Hilbert in BW2. And even then, every Gate broadcast every gym battle win he had. Him being unknown would make no sense either way.

Not that you not hearing about him means he isn't known, as people call Ethan all the time talking about how well known he is, despite you never seeing your fame rising

>>29690354
No I am saying canon events have consequences. That other events either rely on it to happen or a character mentions it did. PWT fits neither of these. But it's nice to know you think ethan has an arceus. Must be the unbeatable now.

>>29690437
I don't think he has an Arceus, I think he met it though. Hell, there's official art of Ethan and Lyra at Sinjoh

>>29690465
So right there you are saying shinjo ruins didn't happen exactly the way it did in the games but PWT must, what kind of reasoning is this?

>>29690024
>I don't like them so they're not canon anymore

Red is the weakest protagonist, forever doomed to be their punching bag. Sorry pal.

>>29690233
Dude, almost every NPCs in every mainline pokemon game to this day acts like they don't know anything about the player character, even after he defeats the evil team, catches a Legendary, saves the world and becomes the Champion. This is not exclusive to BW and is not really an argument, it's just laziness on Game Freak's part.

Hell, not even the Elite 4 changes their dialog the second time you fight them for every pokemom game, if I am not mistaken.

Brendan/May are the best.

>Saved the world twice from Primals and Ayylmaos
>Very powerful teams, if not most powerful
>Have Mega Fug

File: giovanni smirk origins.jpg (563KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

563KB, 1920x1080px

>>29688802
RHYHORN! USE THUNDERBOLT!

>>29690411
>N beating the Champion doesn't make him the Champion?
No, it does. What I meant was that Hilbert's battle with N wasn't a League battle. One of the few rules when challenging E4 is that you can't go back to heal, and that is clearly broken when fighting N. The location changes too. Defeating a Champion outside of the Pokemon League doesn't count.

>As for that last part, everyone talks about Hilbert in BW2. And even then, every Gate broadcast every gym battle win he had. Him being unknown would make no sense either way.
Okay. I don't remember H/H being mentioned by anyone who wasn't close to him, but I might just be that I have shit memory.

>>29689886
Even if PWT is canon, the structure sure as fuck isn't. It wouldn't have been Nate/Rosa consecutively beating every gym leader and champion because that just isn't how tournaments work. There would have been brackets and no one would face everyone

>>29690499
Non existent logic. I never said either of those things.

Hell, I even said that even if the PWT happened you probably didn't win it. And Arceus just needs to be walking with you in your party to trigger the event. Its never yours

I don't think any event went """exactly""" how it did in the games, especially with all the timeline nonsense

>>29690577
That's how the PWT worked. Natefags are as bad as Redfags, saying they somehow beat every single gym leader and champion

I don't even get why people are even debating whether PWT is canon or not. It's postgame. Postgame is never canon. No exceptions.

>>29689886
>>assuming PWT is canon
But it isn't

>>29690629
That's how it worked becaue it would be bad game design to set it up like a real tournament given that it was a feature in a single player game. Pokemon fans are so fucking autistic holy shit. Moreover, why would GF make the PWT unwinnable to preserve the canon they don't even care about

I wonder why people continue to bitch about what protag is the most skilled and what elements of post game are canon when GF clearly does not give a fuck.

>>29690397
>using legendaries

>>29690690
Guess getting the diploma is 100% canon because they let you do it. It even has a tangible award!

Every protag has every pokemon!

>>29690659
Important Post-game Events:
-We only know that Silver is Giovanni's son through postgame
-Delta Episode
-Sevii Islands arc giving the back story for Archer, Arianna and Johto Team Rocket
-the linking of the Kanto games and the Hoenn games within the timeline
-Looker quest and everything about Emma
-Jasmine talking about visiting Sinnoh in HGSS
-the Stark Mountain plot
-the Team Rocket Member stealing the machine part for the Kanto Power Plant. Is later seen in Unova main game having gone good after that

>>29690690
No, I mean it worked like how you said. With Brackets. Like a real Tournament. When you win a Tournament you only win 3 battles. Did you play the PWT?

>>29690703
People like to argue about powerlevels, but I honestly don't care.
I only dislike it when they put noncanon filler postgame shit in the mix like Red vs Ethan and the PWT.

>>29688802
No

>>29688802
ORAS Brendan/May are
>Traveled the land, sea, sky, and space
>Saved the world from Primal Groudon/Kyogre
>Captured Rayquaza and together saved the world from a meteorite

>>29690796
But people aren't going to change thier minds about this because you don't like it.

I thought threads could only get derailed by timeline theories and maptism, but recently now one guy keeps just replying "everything is non canon" and turning a normal thread into 100 replies of the same arguments

Plus it doesn't matter when
>>29690872
>>29690521
Will always be the right answer

>>29690551
But those were extraordinary events. The league probably never prepared for something like this. And I'm not sure what the argument is anymore.

>>29690788
If are going to consider some of them canon, you have to consider all of the postgame to be canon. Which fucks up everything. Brendan can even encounter Zekrom/Reshirem, who are in their Stone forms.

>>29690788
Nope. Then I don't see how Nate/Rosa beat EVERYONE like anons are claiming.

>>29690917
My argument is that Hilbert can also get credits twice, by beating two different trainers in two different scenarios. If those were extraordinary events, that just helps my argument.

>>29688802
BW2 N weather teams

>>29690920
But considering no post-game canon fucks things up too

Which means the only logical thing to do is consider some of it canon but not all of it. I seriously, seriously doubt GameFreak puts story and information in the post-game just for it to be completely disregarded.

>>29690959
Oh. Well I suppose I can't really argue with your point. You're right.

>>29690936
Oh, they're just dumb. Like I said, they're as bad as Redfags

>>29690659
>Postgame is never canon

When will this meme end. Canonfags need to be gassed

>>29691035
>But considering no post-game canon fucks things up too
Not really. All the events that you pointed out can play out without the need of the protagonist being there, barring the Kanto Power Plant one.
Postgame is just extra content to keep the player, you, entertained. It's not just a Pokemon thing either. It's the same for every game. The game ends after the final boss fight.
I don't remember the events of Stark Mountain too well, so if there was something that couldn't have been done without the protagonists' help, please do let me know.

>>29691183
Archer specifically disbands the Sevii Islands branch of Team Rocket because he sees your badge making it known that you defeated Giovanni.

Giovanni only didnt return in HGSS because you beat him in the Tohjo Falls event. As in, he is literally on his way to Goldenrod and doesnt go because you beat him. And that's an event.

Looker specifically enlists your help in finding the Seven Sages after the game ends.

And again, the two instances we know about Silver and Giovanni's relationship is in postgame, something that people repeatedly says should be completely disregarded

You can say other events are able to play out the same if you werent there, but in the end, you WERE there. I also dont remember the Stark Mountain storyline much either.

>Postgame is just extra content to keep the player, you, entertained.
Nobody has said otherwise. But that doesnt mean gamefreak wount round out it's world anymore now that the game is over.

>>29690917
>>29690872
>>29690521
>Brendan/May

I know you guys like to pretend both characters did the same thing, but when we talk about canon we cannot assume two mutually exclusive timelines are canon, multiverse nonsense be damned. Since it is never revealed which one is canon, I'm going to choose Brendan because it makes far more sense for the following reasons:

1-May is just a rival who gives up being a trainer and wants to be a pokemon professor instead in the games. It makes far more sense than how Brendan acts when he is the rival.
2-Even in the ashnime May isn't interested on being a pokemon trainer and went after becoming part of pokemon contests instead.
3-Brendan is the one they choose to appear on Generations. Since it is hard to believe Pokemon Generations would show a noncanon character I believe it is safe to assume Brendan is the canon one.
4-Brendan's character design simply fits better as the one who owns Mega Fug and did all the world saving.
5-During the Sun/Moon reveal trailer it was Brendan the one who they showed, not May.
6-Brendan is the coolest pokeboy.

>>29690659
This. Treating postgame as canon opens a can of worms. It is better to ignore it.

>>29691342
>But that doesnt mean gamefreak wount round out it's world anymore now that the game is over.
I'm not arguing that the events that occur postgame aren't canon. I'm arguing that the protagonists' involvement in those events is not canon.

But postgame events are optional events, the game is considered complete even if you don't trigger them. The game ends with the credits. That is why the it is called postgame. The game has already ended. The story has ended.

You are arguing that the protagonist is involved in some of them, but not in others. That doesn't make sense. If they are all optional events, either some or none should be considered canon. Yes, the player can help arrest the Sages, but guess what, 2 years pass and none of them appears to be in arrest. That entire event is bullshit and that is the first event you see.

You are just picking events that support your argument to be canon, and are ignoring any event that doesn't. That's not how it works.

>>29688828
Red isn't the strongest trainer, but he's absolutely the most iconic. Also nothing directly keys off Gold/Silver like G/S keyed off R/B/Y, so there's not really an opportunity for them to do it.

>>29688802
No Cynthia probably is.

>>29691915
>If they are all optional events, either some or none should be considered canon.
This is not a rule at all, and is entirely based on your interpretation. I simply dont agree with this.

I'm arguing that some postgame events hinge entirely on the fact that the protagonist is there and thus, the precedent for some postgame events being canon exist.

>I'm arguing that the protagonists' involvement in those events is not canon.
For me personally, the idea that one may acknowledge events, but not the thing that led us to them is a bit silly. If I'm going to beleive information any given event tells us, I will also believe that event in question took place.

>Yes, the player can help arrest the Sages, but guess what, 2 years pass and none of them appears to be in arrest
Which means, given the information we have, the protag failed to find them after being enlisted.

File: Brendan vs Steven.jpg (49KB, 1024x575px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 1024x575px

>>29691628
Brendan's also the one who fights Steven in the ORAS Animated trailer

>>29691628
>Ashnime
>Generations
OK buddy.

I'm sure we all have pur own headcannon for who the protags are but for the sake of fairness we include them both

(Mine goes Red, Ethan, Brendan, Dawn, Either, Rosa, Serena, Moon btw)

>>29689293
Canonically BW2 protag beat the shit out of Red and Green anyway

>>29692258
Same here, but I chose Calem because rival Serena is the best

Redfags are so cancerous

>>29692306
I just played as Serena and so seeing Calem in the Rival role was normal for me. Either could probably work there too.

Though its a bit notable that GF went Red/Ethan/Brendan/Dawn/Hilda/black Serena in the 20th anniversary trailer and then gives nippon Moon 90% of the SM trailers

>>29689708
Yeah you even beat Ray Rizzo and Babbytron in that game.
But credits don't play after.

>>29689534
this is accurate

>>29692291
>canonically

Nope, PWT outside of the literally who Driftveil tournament is non canon

>>29689886
Even if PWT was canon (it clearly isn't), beating Kyurem is a non-factor when Reshiram/Zekrom are by far the weakest box legends and Kyurem is even weaker than them; it's a pretty low end feat compared to most other MCs

>>29688828
Insane rage at losing to some other kid so he pushed him off the top of Mt. Silver.

>>29693911
>>29693949
This just looks like massive samefagging at this point

>>29692418
Probably because how underage /vp/ is. He's done stuff every other protag has and in the easiest to traverse region and with nearly zero life threatening situations and yet he's the best

Also I've literally never seen stuff like the Mt Silver fight being disregarded until these recent threads. And I've been around since Crystal. And suddenly its "obvious."

Red's a pushover.

Gamefreak calls him legend so i guess so.

>>29695486
>Also I've literally never seen stuff like the Mt Silver fight being disregarded until these recent threads

I think there was a video made by some Redfag that said something along those lines, and suddenly Ethan didn't beat Red at all. Still think Ethan is better than Red, though.

File: 740220_1307496632015_full.jpg (11KB, 342x192px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 342x192px

>>29688802
>Blue mentions that the true final boss of the Battle Tree is a Johto trainer that's even stronger than Red.
>It's HER.

>>29692221
>nu-pokemon changed brendans canon starter from swampert to sceptile.

I guess they also changed his aggron and gardevoir to something else to?

Does anyone notice Red has a mega ring?

>>29695346
>le ebin samefag maymay XDDDDD

The Gen 5 protags are by far the weakest MCs, deal with it, cuck.

>>29696978
>deal with it
>cuck

You sure convinced me. I dont even think the Gen V protags are strong, I just think you're being too obvious

>>29693949
>Reshiram/Zekrom are by far the weakest box legends
Their BST is 680 just like the other box legends except Suicuine, Groudon and Kyogro who are all lower. And the White/Black Kyurem have a BST of 700 which at the time was second only to Arceus.

>>29689293
>When PWT literally treats him as the strongest trainer
His title is a legendary trainer, the unused text for Hilbert/Hilda refer to them as the strongest of all.

>>29689768
They make references to Hilbert/Hilda in B2/W2

>>29689209
>By that logic every protagonist collected their starter, walked out onto the first route and then just stopped forever.
Except that several games reference the events in prior games.

Try again.

>>29690354
>Tonnes of people believe Sinjoh happened lol. I do as well
Of all the ones to pick you pick the one that can't happen.

>>29690788
The only important and confirmed canon one there is DE.

File: cynthia.jpg (76KB, 499x299px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 499x299px

>>29688802
No. His team is a fucking joke. This is a REAL pokemon master.

>>29689570
She simply has the best team of any champion

>>29700089
>real pokemon trainer
>hasn't aged in 10 years
nah

>>29700181
>Not knowing about the timeline

Professor Oak is the strongest Trainer imo

>>29700043
But all of those are canon. And the Sevii Rocket stuff was confirmed in HGSS.

>>29699981
Well I'm glad you were here to clear things up

>>29688802
>Gold beat him years ago
>Chicken-Chan will beat him now