Is he a better trainer than Red?

>>29671899
In the games, yes. I'm not sure about PokeSPE, though. I'm pretty sure the battle between Gold and Red was adapted but I forget/

>>29671899
A better question would be which MCs ARENT better than Red.

Calem/Serena is a given, because they pretty much do the same as Red but with more help.

Brendan is the best trainer, that's not even a question

>>29671935
Ethan is better.
Brendan is better.
Lucas is better.
Hilbert isnt better.
Nate is better if you count PWT as canon.
Serena isn't better.
SM boy is better since you'll beat Red.

Red needs to be an MC again so we can boost his feats. Or just make the other MCs NPCs so we can give them limits.

>>29671935
All the other MCs have better feats than Red.

>>29671935
>Calem/Serena is a given, because they pretty much do the same as Red but with more help

Calem/Serena saved the world from destruction.

Red saved Silph co.

Dont be stupid, of course Calem/Serena did more

>>29671994
Hilbert does have a legendary canonically.

>>29671964
Hilbert has Mega Fug, but Ethan/Lyra have one of the Creation Trio

He beat Red once but if anyone asked GF, they'd say Red is the best.

>>29672210
Yee but as far as we know they didn't anything with their creationmon. Brendan/May saved the entire world, twice

>>29672209
They both just went through the region fighting the veil team and then the team boss. Lysandre had a more grandiose plan, but it was executed the same way. It's not like they had to fly over Kalos and stop the laser.

Defeating the box legend could give them some points, but they also had 4 other people helping them the whole time. Plus. Red went to Sevii and then stopped Rocket again. With Lorelei's help, but that's still two regions

>>29672260
they also have mega fug

>>29672278
And Serena and Calem stooped Xerosic in the post game once again so its the same

Also no one did any battling aside from few double battles with the rival. Anyone else was just there. Thats pretty much the same as police in Kanto

>>29672260
This is true. As far as what they've done, Brendan and May win at saving the world twice. The only postgame saving Ethan/Lyra do is restoring power to the Kanto Power Plant

>>29672332
We're talking about story here, not only gameplay, as GameFreak cant get across the intended story through gameplay 1:1. And as far as the story is, stopping Flare was all five of you, since you all get medals at the end and Sina/Dexio refer to you as a group in SM.

You have a point about Xerosic. Never did the Looker quest so I cant comment on it.

Technically, the feats of Hilbert/Hilda should come into a bit of question since they had the help of every gym leader and Cheren.

File: __charizard_pikachu_red_and_red_pokemon_pokemon_game_and_pokemon_sm_drawn_by_shuryukan__0d0d8481441386c10935e1e5cf427b03.png (752KB, 700x875px) Image search: [Google]

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Why are people undermining Red so much? There's no doubt that Brendan is the strongest, but I would say Red comes second, tied with Hilbert.

I mean he as 11 year old stopped what was basically the mafia of Pokemon world, ALL ALONE. No champion or Gym Leaders helped him. Even his rival didn't give a shit. He became the champion with no support from anyone, took down the most dangerous team yet in process. Granted, his achievements are few in number, but they are a lot more impressive than most of the protagonists.

>>29672894
Most dangerous Team yet? Even Johto Team Rocket is more immediately dangerous than Kanto Team Rocket.

And while that is impressive, the help some of the others get doesn't undermine thier feats that much. Even though Ethan/Lyra and Lucas/Dawn had help from thier champions, the Jogtot guys still stopped the Goldenrod seige and tamed a savage rampaging Gyarados themselves, and the Sinnoh guys still went into the Distortion World themselves.

>>29673150
The Johto protags fought the remnants of Team Rocket, the team that Red took down when it was at its best. Other achievements are catching a Gyarados and beating the Champion Red already beat. Johto protags really don't have much going for them.

The Sinnoh protags had much better achievements. They fought Team Galactic and beat Giratina. That's impressive, but they had someone helping them at every turn. Even with help, they couldn't stop Team Galactic from capturing the Lake Guardians, then had Barry and Cynthia's help fighting Team Galactic and had Cynthia's help in the Distortion World too. You could say that they didn't NEED the help, but there's no reason to really believe that. Nate went up against a Legendary all alone, one weaker than Giratina, and was almost killed. There's no reason to believe the same wouldn't have happened to Lucas/Dawn.

>>29673429
>Johto protags really don't have much going for them.
Other than conquering two leagues, owning 16 badges, and beating Red himself. Ethan beat Red, Blue, and Lance. Why is it so hard for Redfags to give Ethan the respect he deserves?

>>29673684
>Other than conquering two leagues, owning 16 badges, and beating Red himself
Isn't that all postgame? Does that count?
Besides, once you've beat the E4, the number of badges you have is irrelevant, consider Gym Leaders are weaker than E4.

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>>29673684
>give Ethan the respect he deserves

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>>29673684
>Ethan
>deserves respect

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>>29673684
>give Ethan the respect he deserves

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>>29673684

>Ethan
>deserving of respect

Brendan>Hilbert/Calem>Gold>Red

Blame power creep.

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Lucas/Dawn literally stopped the universe from being destroyed, why does nobody ever talk about that?

>>29674156
Giratina would have taken care of it anyway

>>29674156
because it never happened

>>29674156
Because he had the champion and his rival helping him?

>>29674185
Giratina was the one destroying, anon. He was distorting everything because he opened the portal or some other shit like that.

>>29674214
>Giratina was the one destroying, anon. He was distorting everything because he opened the portal or some other shit like that.
Ah you're right, I forgot that shit was spreading

>>29674185
t. Giratina

Taking the argument everyone is giving in account, I would rank them like this.

Brendan
Red/Hilbert
Nate/Lucas
Calem
Ethan

>>29674214
Literally all Barry did was one Double Battle, against the admins. And Garchomp Queen had the same role as Lance and Steven. Flooding the world and ruining politics is bad and all but Team Galactic was trying to reset everything, even going as far as removing human spirit. Seems like it was the worst catastrophe in any Pokemon game imo.

Why is everyone ranking Brendan at the top? Is it because of Primal/Mega Fug?

>>29674306
The point is, what Lucas did was something others could've done. He was replaceable.

>>29674339
Mega Fug
Lati@s
Possible primal
Saved the world twice in one game
Most smogonfag rival(Wally)

>>29674339
Pretty much. Before ORAS, it was agreed that Lucas or either BW/2 protags were strongest.

>>29674339
He had Lati@s as his bitch, saved the world from PokeGodzilla, beat Wally, became the champion, went into outer space riding on the strongest Pokemon of all and caught an alien. AND had a canon waifu.

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>>29674207

All of the protagonists should be assumed to be of the same level of ability because they are all just the player. The only thing that can be said for certain is that Gold/Ethan/Lyra are better than Red due to canonically beating Red in the game's finale.

The only other way to compare them would be something like who has the most OP stuff available to them in their games.

>>29672894
>tied with Hilbert

Hilbert is pretty weak, even his box legend doesn't really help considering that it's the weakest one yet

>>29674339
Yeah, it's the strongest mandatory capture I believe

>>29674546
>strongest Pokemon of all

I know there is somewhat of a Mega Fug circlejerk here but even he would get shat on by Arceus, the creation trio, the lake trio, and possibly even Zygarde Complete

>>29671899
I don't think losing to another trainer means you're a better or worse trainer. I'm pretty sure it's like chess or sports... the best team can lose to any other team. It's just a matter of how likely it is.

>>29675035
But he doesn't.

I think so. Do keep in mind that they have to somehow tip the scales with each generation. Red was basically the blueprint to that. DP however, had great trainers since they went against literal gods.

>>29675035
>the lake trio

>>29675035
>would get shat on by Arceus
Lore-wise, yes.

>the creation trio, the lake trio, and possibly even Zygarde Complete
A big NO. Give me one good reason to believe that Fug is weaker than any of them.

>>29674156
Even in the newest generations episode we see it was cynthia who went to stop team galaxy and lucas is no where to be seen.

Because generations are based off the game I'm pretty sure they are canon, and in generations they even confirm Brendan catches Deoxy's.

Brendan/May are canonically the best MC's in the entire pokemon series to date.

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>tfw you're 30 years old
>training for your entire life
>haven't won a Pokemon League since you were a kid
>go on a vacation in Alola with your asshole rival to unwind
>he may or may not be a homosexual now
>whatever
>go participate in the Battle Tree to see the fruits of your training
>get your ass kicked by some 11 year old newfag

Being Red is suffering

>>29675111
He's like 20

>>29674981
He is literally the chosen hero of a Pokemon that created the whole damn region. He beats N, who also has a Legendary just as strong as yours, and Ghetsis, the most evil motherfucker in Pokemon.

>>29675111
I like that Red has an official appearance ingame, but goddammit man why with current pokemon? They're going to give him a shit team not worthy of several years. He should have stayed on the mountain.

>>29675156
I hope they give him a new team, besides Pikachu

>>29674953

That fight happened before Red started e.v training and shit so it can't really be used as a modern comparison.

I just assume all protags are at the same level but Red gets held back by Karenfaggotry.

>>29675111
>tfw you're 30 years old
20

>haven't won a Pokemon League since you were a kid
Why would a Champion need to become a Champion again?

>get your ass kicked by some 11 year old newfag
That would suck, to be honest.

>>29675156
>why with current pokemon

Wait, what? There's no way they're going to change up Red or Blue's teams that much.

>>29675174

He'll have Zard X. I just hope the Pikachu is only for the first fight and he goes full smogonfaggotry after that like Wally did.

>>29675111
>defeated by Ethan/Lyra/Kris
>can be defeated by Nate/Rosa in PWT
>now will be rekt by Sun/Moon
Poor Red, he is the only MC that keeps losing to MCs from other games.

Why does it matter if Lucas saved the 'universe'. He doesn't save the universe by going all TTGL. All he does is the same thing every other protagonist from Gen 3 and upward does. It's not like Team galactic were any harder than other teams.

>>29675228
I mean, these are probably the only three trainers that will ever beat him. Not that bad

>>29675194
>Why would a Champion need to become a Champion again?
Everyone else is only getting stronger. You need to keep competing to stay at the top.

>>29675194

>20

I think he means that Pokemon Red came out in 1998, and Red was 11 in that game, so he would have been born in 1987. So, Red would be 29-30.

>>29675228

Being the NPC that beats everyone except player characters isn't that bad.

>>29675253
Agreed, but he is the called the strongest trainer of all time for a reason. Going through a league again would so be so easy it wouldn't even count as Training. He needs to train, but challenging other leagues isn't going to help with that.

>>29675284
But game timeline is different from real world time that has passed. From 1996 to 2010, when BW was released, only 5 years had passed.

>>29673769
so brendan never catched deoxys or mega fug then

We should be taking the regions into account right? Like, Johto has a million complex caves and a lot of high places like Route 47 and Mt Silver. Hoenn has a lot of harsh sailing. We all know the cluaterfuck that is Sinnoh.

>>29673429
Its just a new team rocket formed 3 years later. Nothing indicates that it is any "weakened remnants" besides people just saying so for no reason. They fight a team rocket that has a functional device to power up, control Pokemon and make them insane, and they have to tame a Gyarados that underwent that transformation.

They beat an evil team, and get to meet Ho-oh/Lugia. And this only before the post-game.

And if you think Lance wouldn't be stronger after 3 years and becoming a champion, you're just trying to inflate Red's feats.

And you can't ignore post-game after literally everyone else has postgame included for them, including the PWT, Delta Episode, Looker missions, etc

>>29675378
>We should be taking the regions into account right? Like, Johto has a million complex caves and a lot of high places like Route 47 and Mt Silver. Hoenn has a lot of harsh sailing. We all know the cluaterfuck that is Sinnoh.

This would really weigh down the Sun and Moon protags feats once they get there, as they're going to have help from the Ride Pokemon throughout the whole thing. Also Kalos isn't nearly as dangerous as most regions, so does that hurt Calem/Serena?

>>29675434
Thinking about it, Kanto and Unova are very urban and so it would hurt those protags since its just traveling from city to city.

And yeah, Kalos is not very dangerous outside parts of mountain Kalos.

Hell, Calem/Serena don't even climb any mountains like Mt Coronet or Silver.

>>29675378
>Its just a new team rocket formed 3 years later
It's the same Team Rocket Red beat on Sevii Islands. They went into hiding for 3 years to gather some members.

>Nothing indicates that it is any "weakened remnants"
The fact that they have to sell Slowpoke tail to get money for their team says a lot. In Giovanni's time, they raided houses in broad daylight and owned a fucking Gym and a Casino.

>And you can't ignore post-game after literally everyone else has postgame included for them, including the PWT, Delta Episode, Looker missions
No one considers PWT canon. People consider Delta Episode canon because it's part of the story. You can't advance unless you complete it. You can win or lose against Red, and absolutely nothing changes. You can choose to never fight Red, and the game is still considered complete.

>>29675527
>No one considers PWT canon
I do,

Nate is the best

>>29675487
>Thinking about it, Kanto and Unova are very urban and so it would hurt those protags since its just traveling from city to city.

Yeah, so Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh are the most dangerous in that case. So that would probably give them some better feats.

Unfortunately for Red, he's held back by having an outdated team that, while it was powerful at the time, doesn't really mean shit now when compared to the other mons you can catch.

>>29675557
That makes Brendan/May even more OP

>>29675573
A Z-move using Snorlax/Pikachu and a Mega Zard could improve his team a bit, but he's still pretty weak by today's standards. I hope they change his team around.

>>29675527
Almost every thread about this has people including the PWT. Hell, I've seen people regularly include the Arceus event and Celebi event because of just how much story is around it.

For the Delta episode, being unable to cotinue the post-game should be irrelevant because its still also post-game, but the end credits come up when you beat Red and a few events happens specifically because of it. Though I can't remember.

The people ignoring all post-game is always a minority. And cutting it all off was always an incredibly premature thing to do. You may as well say we can't know where the Team Rocket in HGSS comes from as the FRLG post-game that gives us the knowledge can't be counted.

>>29675597
I think it also makes Lucas/Dawn a good second place and gives Ethan the feats he needs to actually be better than Red like he's supposed to be.

>>29675557
Yeah. I would say those ave the most arduous environments. Kalos has a few rough places but you are given Pokemon to ride for two of them.

>>29675573
To be fair, he gets the most updates to his team. And actually has a canon team come to think of it. He will probably discover Z-moves or Megas and use them in Alola

>>29675748
>Kalos has a few rough places but you are given Pokemon to ride for two of them

For the Mamoswine part, Lucas/Dawn did something similar without ride Pokemon, so there's that.

>>29675748

Origins covered the events of Kanto in the mega verse so he likely already has Zard X.

>>29675527
>You can win or lose against Red, and absolutely nothing changes. You can choose to never fight Red, and the game is still considered complete.
Some events only happens if Red is defeated in HG/SS.

>>29675776
Megaverse doesn't mean everyone has Megas so theres nothinf really saying things went much differently from FRLG. I'm going to wait until we see it in SM to say so

>>29675775
So did Ethan/Lyra and Res , climbing up Mt Silver themselves

>>29675654
>For the Delta episode, being unable to cotinue the post-game should be irrelevant because its still also post-game
It's even given its name like Delta Episode because they wanted it to be different from normal postgame. They could've made it a like the Sage chase throughout Unova, but they didn't. Even the games give it special treatment, and restrict you from accessing postgame content unless you complete it.

>but the end credits come up when you beat Red and a few events happens specifically because of it.
No events, just a piece of dialog from Oak and a Kanto Starter. That's the same as catching Kyurem in BW Postgame. You get a few extra dialog, and a Pokemon.

>Almost every thread about this has people including the PWT. Hell, I've seen people regularly include the Arceus event and Celebi event because of just how much story is around it.
This never happens on /vp/, at least. Don't know what boards you've been using.

>You may as well say we can't know where the Team Rocket in HGSS comes from as the FRLG
Yes, you can, actually. That's just an extra Easter Egg.

>>29675100
>Brendan/May are canonically the best MC's in the entire pokemon series to date.

Only Brendan. May is lame, she only wants to participate on pokemon contests.

>>29675885
>animeshit

>>29671994
Nah, red is overglorifed. Don't need to give him more.

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>>29675111
He never quite recovered from the ass kicking

>>29675228
>tfw you don't fight Hilbert/Hilda in BW2

>>29675849
It always happens on /vp/ dude. Like every thread. And it always comes down to statements like "you can count entering the PWT but not winning it" and stuff like that. Or comparing the legendary events in HGSS to the ones in ORAS.

Anyways, the idea of disregarding an entire region that introduces a lot of lore because it does after the end credits is a bit silly to me, but its not like what either of us are saying is definitive, so I can't say you're objectively wrong.

But too much information about the world and characters comes to us after the main game for me to say it doesn't happen. Like restoring the power plant in HGSS, beating the black tower in BW2 or the Sevii islands

I was gonna say something else about team rocket but I took too long and forgot which is annoying

>>29676022
Missed opportunity right here

So since Red is back. Does that mean the Hg/Ss champion theme will get a kick ass remaster.

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>>29676022
>>29676050
Imagine the shitstorm it would be if you could face Hilbert/Hilda in the post game and they had higher level and more competitive mons than Red

>>29676022
>>29676050
It looks like it was scrapped

Who gives a shit, Nate is canonically the best one for beating fucking everyone of note up to that point.

>>29675086
Not that anon, but:
>Creation Trio
Dialga and Palkia are each seen creating a new universe on their own in Diamond and Pearl versions, respectively. They are indisputably stronger than Mega Fug, whose absolute best feat across all Pokemon media makes it a star-buster, max.
>Lake Trio
It's stated that the combined power of all three Lake Guardians is equal to that of a single member of the Creation trio, which is why they can break the Red Chain. So they also shit on Mega Fug. Incidentally, this whole 3 Lake Guardians = 1 Creation Trio thing is why they can't stop Cyrus in Platinum, forcing Giratina to step in.
>Zygarde Complete
Pure speculation, I don't believe it to be more powerful than Mega Fug based on what we've seen it do.

>>29676147
It'd be great and that would have to happen given how much better move sets are.

>>29676147
>>29676167
>>29676184
What would his or her team be? I like to imagine that they would go full smogon

>>29676022
There is data for them to appear on the PWT on the files and they where even going to talk unlike Red.

>>29676037
A criminal on the run is invited in PWT. And that said criminal accepts the invitation and fights in front of a crowd of people, who are cheering for him. If that alone doesn't make PWT not-canon, then I don't know what will.

And I'm not disregarding the whole idea of Kanto postgame being canon. It's just that there's no reason to believe that yet. Not a single thing points toward that being true. Maybe it is canon, but it's more logical to believe it isn't until we get something, ANYTHING to suggest that it is.

>>29676252
>>29676167
Are you pullin' my fucking leg

>>29676252
>they where even going to talk

If Hilbert wouldn't have ended up a hyperactive spastic like in the manga I would've been disappointed

>>29676182
>Dialga and Palkia are each seen creating a new universe on their own in Diamond and Pearl versions, respectively.
Yeah, I get that they have cooler powers. I'm talking about raw strength though. Can they beat Mega Fug one on one using their magic?

>>29676275
No. Bulbapedia has the text if you want to check it out.

>>29676254
How well known was it that Giovanni is the leader of the Team? And its been at least 7 years. We don't know what happened in that time.

For me, it makes sense to believe it, as the events contradict nothing, has its own un ique events thst change over time and only add to the lore of the world.

Like, getting Rock Climb to access a lot of new areas in the regions is locked behind beating Blue, so we can go as far as saying beating the Kanto league is canon. Also, information like Silver being Giovanni's son or Jasmine going to Sinnoh only come after the game ends. And again, the second end credits which point to the games treating that event differently from other post-game events

>>29676275
Could have brought them both and say they did everything together, but unlike every other region, the other MC is almost completely disconnected from the main one.

>>29676295
...Yes? They can literally unmake Fug on a whim. Each one of them possesses enough power to be able to threaten the very stability of the entire universe. The power of an ant - not Durant, an actual real-world ant - compared to that of Mega Fug is greater than the power of Mega Fug compared to that of the Creation Trio.

>>29676275
>>29676285
>"Meet Hilbert/Hilda, the Trainer some claim to be the strongest of all!"
Before battle (first round)
>"Everything can be understood through Pokémon battles! Let's go!"
Before battle (second round)
>"Words are the source of all misunderstanding! Everything can be understood through Pokémon battles! Let's go!"
Before battle (final round)
>"You communicate with Pokémon using feelings, not words! Everything can be understood through Pokémon battles! Let's go!"
When defeated
>"Thank you!"
If the player is defeated
>"I just lucked into winning... Isn't that how it felt?"
After being defeated
>"Hilbert/Hilda: Make your dreams come true! Someone once encouraged me to do that. Even now, I'm continuing my journey to realize those dreams."
After winning
>"Hilbert/Hilda: I'll leave you with words someone told me once. Dream your dream!"

>>29676295
In-game stats=/=lore

>>29676227
Volcarona
Haxorus
Reuniclus
Krookodile
Braviary
Mienshao
Jellicent

I didn't wanna go full smogon but that seems about right.

>>29676594
Sounds good enough

>>29676594
What about Reshiram/Zekrom? They probably would have one of the starters.

>>29676694
Oh yeah, probably replace Jellicent.

>>29676394
Well, Team Rocket declared that Giovanni was their leader in two whole regions, so I would say he was pretty well known.

>as the events contradict nothing
But it does. If you count FRLG post-game as canon, then Red defeated/caught Mewtwo. But in HGSS postgame, Mewtwo is still there. Or the Volcarona in BW. If Hilbert had explored the Relic Castle, he would've encountered it. But it's still there in BW2.

The story of Ethan ended right when he beat Lance. Everything else is just a way to let the player, you, know what happened to the cast of previous games. You can consider the anything you learn true, but Ethan just wasn't there. Blue is still a Gym Leader, just that Ethan didn't canonically beat him.

And I'm not pulling this out of my ass. In BW, you can learn the story and location of Kyurem. That is canon. Proven in BW2, when Kyurem is found in the same area again, this time during the main game. The information we got was true. But Hilbert wasn't there. He would've caught it otherwise.

Postgame can add a lot the lore of the world, but it isn't the protagonist experiencing the postgame content. Postgame is made with the player in mind, only the player in mind. If that wasn't the case, the game would be full of contradictions.

>>29677143
But Mewtwo wasn't there in the original Gold/Silver, neither were the Legendary Birds.
HGSS fucked everything up.

>>29677327
But HGSS is the current version. GSC didn't even have Special Abilities, and winning against Red mattered even less, considering you didn't even get a single piece of dialog about it from anyone back then.

>>29677143
>And I'm not pulling this out of my ass. In BW, you can learn the story and location of Kyurem. That is canon. Proven in BW2, when Kyurem is found in the same area again, this time during the main game. The information we got was true. But Hilbert wasn't there. He would've caught it otherwise.
You could've also used Volcarona for this. You encounter Volcarona in BW, when you're chasing after a Sage hiding in there. The Volcarona is still there in BW2. That means that yes, Volcarona being there was true, but Hilbert encountering it wasn't.

>>29677143
Meeting Mewtwo doesn't mean it is caught. You meet legendaries in the main game but they still exist in other games. Your point hinges on the fact that people need to catch legendaries when they are met, when the only legendaries we can say are definitively owned by trainers are Lati@s and Fug by Brendan, the box legend by the BW trainer and a creation trio member by the HGSS kids if you count the Arceus event.

This is also something I've seen in other threads by the way. Differentiating legendaries met vs legendaries caught. And even then that is going to be put into contention because its canon that a MC has the BW legends but we will meet it again in other games. You can't attempt to look at pokemon lore without knowing there will be a million contradictions and retcons because GF isn't good at thjs

>>29677538
>Meeting Mewtwo doesn't mean it is caught. Your point hinges on the fact that people need to catch legendaries when they are met.
If you read my post again, you'll notice that I specifically said "Red defeated/caught Mewtwo". Caught or defeated, Mewtwo leaves the Cave after the battle. It shouldn't be there either way.

>You meet legendaries in the main game but they still exist in other games.
As postgame content.

As long as you don't consider postgame canon, there really isn't any contradictions in the lore.

>>29677143
I always liked to imagine that the Protags eventually release their legendaries

>>29676531
I wonder how would they decide which one you would meet in the game. Hilbert for white and Hilda for black? Or if you pick the male MC you face Hilbert while if you pick the female one you face Hilda? Or maybe you answer a question like in Emerald to decide weather it was Latios or Latias that appeared in the tv.

>>29678337
The Unova Link should've been able to copy and paste your Hall of Fame team, or at least implement something like that honestly.

>>29677659
>Caught or defeated, Mewtwo leaves the Cave after the battle. It shouldn't be there either way.
Mewtwo being caught makes more sense considering Red's entire thing was that he caught every kind of pokemon in Kanto Except maybe Mew.

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>>29673684
>ethan getting any respect ever

>>29677659
But we know Pokemon return to these places after being defeated. This is incredibly minor

>>29671899
Yeah, I'd say Gold is a better trainer. He's the only one to have ever gotten more than 8 badges, Johto's abhorrent level scaling and Pokemon selection aside.

Plus, he's captured more legendaries than Red.

>be red
>"what the fuck where are my revives and all my potions"
>be gold
>"holy shit gonna cheese this fight fuckin hard mang"
>be sun
>"lol revives and potions"
>be nate in pwt
>commit seppuku after realizing worst pokeboy
>be rosa
>realize hilda is actually better
Is this thread mixing canon timelines? PokeSpe with RGBY/GSC/SM?