there is no shame in hiring new people with fresh ideas .. GF

>>29608166
They're both shit. The excuse for Alolan Dugtrio though is that they were having fun with it along with other designs this gen. They said so in an interview -- some like this one are supposed to be goofy.

>>29608166
Why the fuck would Alolan Vaporeon stay as a mono water type?

>Alolan Dugtrio
>creative fun design
>Fake Alolan Vaporeon
>adds nothing to the original idea of Vaporeon, and doesn't even go along with the idea of Alola forms as it makes no sense why it would adopt any different

I don't see the problem OP. Seriously trying to compare fake design as if they're superior to real design will always make you look retarded.

>>29608166
That Vaporeon is really disgusting desu.

>>29608166
>They said so in an interview -- some like this one are supposed to be goofy.
That doesn't excuse it. It is still a disgusting abomination that no serious triple-A game developer should ever include in their franchise.

>>29608192
>Alolan Dugtrio
>"""creative"""
>"""""""fun"""""""

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>Pele hair, Based on the Hawaiian goddess of volcanoes, pele, It can be defined as volcanic glass fibers or thin strands of volcanic glass.[1] The strands are formed through the stretching of molten basaltic glass from lava, usually from lava fountains, lava cascades, and vigorous lava flows.
>Just a ugly fish

Yea, I wonder why Gamefreak, insterad of making noods to Mitologies, Or having a logical adapt, Will prefer changing a species with no logical explication

Alolan Dugtrio could possibly be fire time assuming the yellow hair things are some volcanic whatever thingies people are talking about.

I'm not a huge fan of the design, but it's growing on me.

Despite the dugtrio + hair thing, it's better than that Vaporeon. The fin fails to act like a horse's mane. Whether it's meant to be like that or not, that's what it looks like, and it looks bad with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele%27s_hair

Also that Vaporeon is fucking ugly

>>29608187
because OP is an autistic child at play.

>>29608221
Type... not time...

>>29608192
>compare fake design as if they're superior to real design will always make you look retarded
I really hope you're not implying that real design is always good and that fake design is always bad by default.

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>STILL mono-Water
>Against the idea of alola forms of changing Not only appearences, But Types
>No Fairy/Water

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Reposting this because people still don't get it.

Designing Pokemon takes a lot of work, and with 3D especially in the mix, it's going to take more than sketching a Pokemon, making a sprite with two frames of animation and calling it a day. Look at Gen V. Look what happens when you cut corners with animating. Now, let's get some naive shitter to design a Pokemon and he works on it and submits it the head person in charge of the design team.
>How does it move?
>What part of it moves?
>How can we transcribe this into 3D?
All of that has to taken into account. Suddenly, your epic idea is now being retweaked and edited to fit the criteria for what needs to be done in-game and suddenly you're wanting to rip your hair out. That's what designing really is. It's not easy AND you're on a deadline.

And considering how many shitty fakemon there are on the internet, I'm glad GameFreak doesn't even make the attempt to ask the 'fans' for designs. You all complain about rehashes but fakemon 90% of the time are literal rehashes of not only official Pokemon, but other monsters too. Plus, legally they can't do such a thing (Imagine that one faggot who gets butthurt and demands royalties for said monster. Suddenly, a hole in the national dex). And just for this particular OP, the same goes for alternate formes and the like. If anything, stuff like Alolan forms are inoffensive because it's just editing an existing monster and not counting it as a new Pokemon.

tl;dr stick to rom hacks and let the professionals do the work.

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Which one ?

>>29608301
So, does that thing evolve at all?

>>29608344
REEF
E
E
F

Polar looks like a bro tho

>>29608326
Fuck off with that shitty pasta.
The original pokemon worked perfectly in 3D and their designs weren't created with models in mind so your first point is moot.

>And considering how many shitty fakemon there are on the internet, I'm glad GameFreak doesn't even make the attempt to ask the 'fans' for designs.
>some fakemon drawn by 14 year olds are bad so they shouldn't hire new artists
:^)

Suck a cock.

>>29608344
I want to cuddle with that Polareon
That's what they should've called Glaceon btw

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>>29608477
Yes, I'm sure GF had no plans when designing Pokemon Stadium.
You absolute RETARD.

>>29608344
Polar looks very bottom heavy.

Like, VERY bottom heavy. It looks disproportionate to the head.

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>>29608166
But how else would we get top kek memes?!

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>>29608214
>takes actual volcanic phenomenon (Pele's Hair)
>takes Maui surfer dude stereotype
>combines them into an amusing take on an existing Pokemon
I won't lie, I wanted pic related, but Dugtrio isn't terrible.

Now, Golem on the other hand, that's just irredeemable shit.

>>29608530
>The guys who first created pokemon knew that it would turn into a multi-million dollar franchise which would shit out dozens of spin-off games, some of which would be in 3D
>In the 90s
ok m8

>>29608477
You realize GF actually DOES hire new new designers every gen?

>>29608584
Not anon you're having a pissing contest with, but I think you should quit while you're head is still above water.

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>>29608584
I'm sure they at least thought about it during Stadium 2. I mean, you think Crobat was an accident?

>>29608622
What so you actually believe that they had planned 3D models all along?

>>29608634
I'm sure they did, but they definitely did not for the original 150 and still it worked out perfectly so all that bullshit about having to figure out how their models would move is bullshit trust me, I have an arts degree ;_;

>>29608166

I don't get it.

There are real evolutionary reasons why the Alolan Exeggutor, Vulpix, and Sandslashes look the way they do.

But lets just put hair on a Dugtrio and cross a Vaporeon with a Deoxys. Earn that paycheck Game Freak employee.

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>>29608674
O-oh dear anon.

>>29608166
OP is a faggot like always and he isn't even smart enough to find a good example.
However one of the problems with GF method is that they don't care about the quality of the designs, because the only requirement a pokemon needs to be approved is the staff liking it. I think adding some outsider opinions before finalizing the designs would be useful

>>29608674
It worked out fine, but Pokémon designed with 3D in mind look way better. Look how well Incineroar is animated compared to Charizard

>>29608697
The animations are more fluid but the design's pretty bad compared to my mum's dragon.
It's like comparing the XYZ anime with SM's

>>29608477
This guy gets it. GF apologist thread derailed

>>29608675
Pele's Hair, look it up. Guarantee you it will be Fire/Rock or Fire/Ground.

>>29608720
I'll be sure to make a daily thread about Pele hair fags' tears when A Dugtrio turns out to be Water/Ground

>>29608718
>It's like comparing the XYZ anime with SM's
But both of them are fucking shit

>>29608741
But one's slightly less shit.

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That Vaporeon is ass, but you're right that Game Freak had ONE JOB.

Make Slowbro's Shellder into an actual catchable Pokemon.

>Alolan Shellder are naturally bouyant, so they drift on the currents and are scattered all over the world. However, their favourite food are Slowpoke tails, so they're rarely seen in their natural state

It's not rocket science, Ohmori.

>>29608772
literally just make shellder turn into that when it holds slowpoketail

lore-consist with an existing item.

>>29608798
GF's continuity autism prevents them from doing that kind of shit.

>>29608326
Do you even understand how companies like Game Freak even handle copyright? If they EVER accepted a design from a fan, they wouldn't be so stupid as to accept the design without first establishing a contract that states Game Freak takes all rights to the design.
This is basic business sense you dumb fuckhead.
Accepting a fan design isn't beyond them either, an international contest to see who creates the best design is an excellent promotional act. Getting fans to vote in on it too would only boost attention.

>>29608750
I know, it's amazing they finally got real animators

>>29608814
they've broken it before but i can't remember when lel

let's get serious tho. why wasn't baby kangaskhan made a thing in the GENERATION THAT CAME OUT RIGHT AFTER THAT MADE BABY POKEMON A THING

>>29608828
A shame that they had to fire their artists though.

>>29608825
>you don't understand how GameFreak does things
>goes on to state something GameFreak has never done in 20 years and never will

>>29608696
This

This thread is filled with braindead shitposters that think a yearly/monthly election on fakemon designs wouldn't be the best PR new pokemon designs have ever had since the first generation of games. Art majors and normies consistently submitting everything from concept art to cocktail napkins to steal that covetted "Newly discovered Pokémon species!" spotlight. Nostalgia goggles crushed beneath a caravan of bandwagons and local news story of "Local [x-school] girl submits winning for Multimillion dollar International phenomenon game series, now awarded a fullride scholarship at [x-Art University] post graduation!"

Fakemon could very well be the best thing to ever happen if the elections and census groups have a reigning commitee to weed out the shit internets memes and yield to neverending fanfare over needle in the haystack quality designs

>>29608287
In this specific case Alolan Dugtrio is better

Does anyone have Artleaka's Alolan Golem? Now goddamn that is BETTER.

>>29608855
>being this dense
Not that anon but fuck off.

>>29608855
>suggesting any company would literally just take a design off the web without purchasing the rights from the artist, then suffer when the artist reminds them that copyright is a thing
>thinks literally anyone here cares about his retarded fucking opinions on the subject anymore

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>>29608851
>XYZ
>art

>>29608873
A woman shitting out eggs on a canvas is considered art so yeah, I guess.

>>29608166
>>29608166
Every single fan made Pokémon make a better design than the original one, The truth is the Pokémon company director board is a bunch of hogs who exclusive a plant that should be nurtured to grow to be the most beautiful genitive plant but they eat it and make shit instead of doing so.

Therefore one scold not make middle class developers to direct any franchise that offer creating in it.

>>29608897
t.Retard

>>29608864
It's an okay idea, the problem is Game Freak isn't gonna release those fanmade Pokemon until about 3 years after the fact. At which point, the hype is dead.

If they made a game that actually supported DLC adding new code to the game instead of it all being on-cart stuff like Mew and Diancie, then sure.
But until that happens, there's no point in accepting fanmons.

>>29608408
No it's Pikipek's final evolution, weird as that is. I know there are woodpecking toucan species but the shift from the mid stage to this one is quite large.

>>29608913
I assume they don't do that out of fear of whatever new code added breaking the game. GF sucks at coding and there's been a lot of game breaking bugs in the past.

>>29608935
Maybe they should take some of those millions they've got lying around and hire real programmers.

>>29608166
Japanese companies do not operate the same way American companies do.

They favor reputation and veterancy over inspiration and new blood. Why do you think old shriveled nips keep getting put into ceo positions? They seek safe tried and true routes for business stability over innovation and risk taking.

Anyone new to their gaming industry is immediately shoved into grunt work making assets and to speak up is disrespectful and dishonorable to company practice. You will spend you entire lifetime clawing your way into the senior ranks the hard way.

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>>29608963

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>>29608166
>Alolan Eeveelutions
>not changing them to cover the physical types

>>29609140
>Leafeon is covered in gold leaf
It could work.

GF can create a new pokemon by adding googly eyes into a mound of shit just for the purpose of making it hated and the contrarians dipshits here will find a way to make it seem like an artistic and groundbreaking design.

>>29608978
The prestige and honor of aging will someday die when the Japanese realize older people have defunct taste buds. Worst of all, in Pokemon's case, they have zero right to apply to the taste of their youngest generation in hopes they'll grow up/along with the series that follows a tasteless formula

>>29608825
>Do you even understand how companies like Game Freak even handle copyright? If they EVER accepted a design from a fan, they wouldn't be so stupid as to accept the design without first establishing a contract that states Game Freak takes all rights to the design.
Ken. Penders.

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>>29609140
Fucking brilliant!

>>29609140

While some of the designs themselves are a little iffy, I absolutely love the concept. Even the new types fit together well.

>>29609594
I haven't even played Sonic since the Genesis, and I know way, way too much about this dude.

What is it about the Sonic fandom that attracts such raving lunatics?

>>29608477
>The original pokemon worked perfectly in 3D and their designs weren't created with models
>The original pokemon worked perfectly in 3D
You are right. I'm happy we are still using happy, fat Pikachu and that Charmander and Vaporeon still have their back-ridges. Neither of them were redesigned or tweaked

>>29608166
That fake Vaporeon looks like it's made out of plastic and does nothing else different.

No shame in hiring 12 year olds with no design talent GF...

>>29610236
alright Noivern

>>29608166
Can't remember who it was that interviewed them but Masuda said they are aware of most of the fan hacks, and encouraged creators to file an application to Game Freak, as they are always looking for fresh blood.

>>29608166
>Stylised chunk of nothing is better than an informed design referencing the time and culture surrounding the era when whack-a-mole was popular
No. It shouldn't be possible to not understand simple concepts like that, let alone conclude that something without one is even almost acceptable.

>>29610845
delet this

aero deserves it

The Vaporeon is amazing but weird. I do wish Eevee evolutions got Alola forms that changed their type. Like espeon Psychic/Ground

>>29608477
His whole 3D thing was stupid, but only so fae as he worded it.
Pokemon are based on things and need connotebthose things through their designs. Pokemon that are based (even partially) on organisms need to have physiology that reflects those organisms.
You know, they need to be what they are supposed to be.

That Vaporeon is nothing; it's an attempt at making a Pokemon and not a Pokemon that is made as a reference to something ( like actual Pokemon). Allan Dugtrio has the BeeGees hair to reflect the culture surrounding it's actual main design source, while also referencing geographic phenomena via that volcano grass stuff. It's great and obviously so once you actually look at it for what it is instead of impulsively ranting like an idiot.

>>29608187
Because if it changed types it would be Flareon, Jolteon, Espeon, etc...

>it has a justification so it's fine that it looks retarded as fuck
I hate lorefags so much.

>>29611111
Wasted quints.

>>29611111
>Designs - things made to communicate ideas - are bad because they communicate their intended ideas but don't appeal to me
Self-important =\= criticism

>>29608734
That would fit too because it looks like surfer dude hair.

>>29608772
Why would an Alolan Shellder be something that all of them can become as long as a Slowpoke is around? That doesn't make any sense.

It being a separate evo like with a slowpoke tail or something to make it split would make total sense, however.

>>29611240
>designs are automatically good because they're bassed on x thing
self-important =/= argument

>>29611240
Not that anon you were arguing with, but concept of a design does not necessarily equal the execution of the design itself.
You can have a horrible concept but great execution and vice versa.

Besides, designs are mostly a subjective matter, so it not appealing to someone is something to be expected.

>>29611111
Quints of truth

>>29611273
>implying implications
A design is automatically good if t meets it's objectives. The Dugtrio does and is therefore good. Liking it is irrelevant.

>>29611341
Designs aren't a "subjective matter" and this misuse of that word is out of control. When speaking objectively you speak with respect to an observed 'object', in this philosophical approach to criticism the viewer is the subject. Subjectivity is speaking about yourself.
If you approach a design subjectively then you're not talking about the design, you're talking about yourself in terms of a design you have not viewed in respect to itself. It's not valid at all, you know?
A design is good if it communicates its message. Pokemon designs include everything like movements and stuff so you're all way too hasty regardless.

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>>29611111
Put me in screencrap

>>29611465
>someone who knows what they're talking about posting on /vp/
Amazing. It always bothers me when someone tries to argue using subjectivity as a point, it's actually really ironic most of them time.

>>29608175
It's Pele Hair.

>>29608166
>Alola Forms are forms that resulted from a Pokemon changing to adapt to its environment
>Vaporeon's original form is Water
>fanmade Alola Form is also Water
>no additional typing at all

I feel like the artist is missing the basic concept.

>>29611090
>implying it can't just gain a sub-type

>>29609140
That works pretty well, actually.

>>29608166
>why didn't mai waifu get a form ;-;
>>>/mlp/

>>29609140
>flying Sylveon
Remember when people thought it was going to be a Flying type?

Dugtrio is cool.
Geodude line is just plain shit.
>magnetism and hair which the Magnemite and Probopass lines already did
>ALLAHU AKBAR beard and metallic shit added on top for no reason
It's crap desu senpai

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>>29608166
>no type changes
>literally just removes detail
>fresh

Do you hate fun or something?

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>>29611465
>Designs aren't a "subjective matter" [...]
I admit, that was nicely put.

But no, I'm not talking about the design itself.
Rather, I'm talking about the viewer's acceptance of that design. Hence the subjectivity.
To be honest, maybe I used the wrong word, but I'm no expert.

Don't get me wrong; you're right in that Alolan Dugtrio communicate the design well, and as far as what they were intending to do, it is good.
But that design were meant to appeal to a wide range of audience. So wide in fact that you cannot have everyone like it.
Barring the trolls, the (very) vocal minority's dislike of that design is in fact valid.

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>>29608203
Lol """"""triple A""""""" means you have to take it up the ass by a fan base.

They can do what they want. It's their franchise not yours.

I bet you miss HMs too, fag.

>>29612380
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""the more quotation marks I use the more BTFO they are""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>29612531
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""now you're catching on"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>29608166
>adding pink paws to vaporeon is a fresh idea but using a real life phenomena as inspiration to make a fun design isn't.
Fuck, some people are dangerously retarded

>>29612615
One day you'll learn how to read and realize that OP doesn't like the design not because of how inspired/fun/unique it is but because it looks like shit.

>>29608203
>triple a means no fun allowed
Seems reasonable anon, boy I'm glad your opinions mean absolutely nothing

>>29608326
in terms of diffuculty
modeling>>animation>>>>rigging
so if youre already going to rig it the same way might as well make it look good too
but youre right, most of the fan opinions are shit

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>>29612100
People are always going to dislike things, but you can't compromise a design and the ideas therein for the sake of likability because then you would be ruining it and it would become 'bad'.

Subjectivity is weird thing, especially because of the way it's been wrongly adopted on the internet. The whole 'subjectivity is great' stuff comes from modernist conventions and the whole post-structuralism thing and basically it's in regard to making as opposed to viewing.
Take the writers of the time like Kafka or Abe. The whole existential fiction thing based in a hyper-real world made out of introspection is the result of a subjective take on the world on their respective parts. However, to appreciate or discuss their produce you have to look at them objectively because otherwise you're not looking at them at all.

As far as Dugtrio here goes. he's got the Pele hair and it's clearly referencing pic related and by extension the entire teen culture of the era its design is based in. There are a lot of cultural evolution (memetics) designs in the Alolan forms - Raichu the most obvious - so it's not exactly out of place for a species to have adapted along with social norms, maybe in part to avoid being 'whacked' for being trendy? It's pretty fun, really.
Criticising it based on an associated had by the viewer is unfair since that association doesn't belong to Dugtrio, it belongs to the viewer and is therefore a projection and not a valid complaint. There's no fault in the design itself and it is certainly better than that Vaporeon things in the OP or pretty much any 'fakemon' - and that is a result of having criteria to work within and significant amount of work and research over a period of time as opposed to "I drew a thing, pls call it an art and a Pokemon too" which is the only thought process that can lead to a 'fakemon' even existing in the first place.

>>29611465
but don't the designers subjectively choose how to communicate their designs? Sure, you can objectively choose elements to include in a design, elements that many designers may choose if they're designing the same thing. But it's up to the designer's subjective style how to actually implement those elements, you know?

>>29613028
also you know, Pele's hair. Though I think that's not officially confirmed.

>>29613081
I get what you're trying to say, but you're using words you don't need to. I get the confusion, words like subjective and art and style are all misused pretty rampantly around here so it's bound to cause a bit of a communication issue.

>designers subjectively choose how to communicate their designs
Maybe? They certainly make choices but they certainly also get rejected or reassigned or whatever. I don't know how their office in particular operates, but I'd guarantee that they have to make pitches all the way through development and they'd be required to have their research available so the design can be evaluated by whoever is in charge. Pokemon are pretty simple, there are cases where you could assume that there's been some creative freedom allowed like in a Heatran, but even then it's only very slight.

>But it's up to the designer's subjective style how to actually implement those elements, you know
See, I'm not sure what you mean by 'subjective style'. Subjectivity is always in terms of on object where you view it but in respect to yourself and not in respect to it. There could be a preference with implementation (or even excluding elements), but again it's only possible to a degree. In the first couple of Gens I'd say there was much more of an issue with that and I'd say it's pretty apparent, but they're working things pretty tight these days so it would only ever be really minor bits or maybe squeezing more into a design. Like take Bruxish, there's a blatant subjective response to some research at play in Bruxish for sure.

In the end you should always look as objectively as possible, you always will see things subjectively regardless unless you learn to shut yourself off - there's a whole Zen with Memetics thing I read up on years ago.

I'd say Dugtrio is certainly the product of a bit of a designer who saw a chance for some novelty and pitched it, but it works so it's grand.

>>29612661
the title literally says 'hiring new people with fresh ideas' so before acting so fucking arrogant and educated please think your thought process through you idiot.
Also it doesn't take a genius to notice that most people who don't like alolan dugtrio's design hate it because it doesn't take itself seriously, you cucks need to get over yourselves and stop acting like little whiny faggots

>>29608166
>alolan vaporeon evolves into a dolphin
>ability is named after something they don't have.

>>29613379
I mentioned that too, so it's covered.
I was actually researching volcano deities yesterday so it's fresh in my mind and I'm glad that an actually valid theory is doing the rounds on 4chan. I just wish the sandcastle had as much support, but I guess Americans make up a lot of the board and haunted castles aren't the same thing over there as they are everywhere else.

>>29613414
You shouldn't even call that anon educated since he used 'inspired' as an adjective for a design which goes to show that he knows nothing about anything.

>>29608166
That Vaporeon is awful. At least Dugtrio is funny.

>>29608221
It's supposed to be a dorsal fin, dumbass. Meaning this vaporeon would likely be faster and stronger, as opposed to a bulkymon.

>>29608166
I don't much care for the Vaporeon, but it's WAY better than that fucking Fabio Dugtrio.

>>29613597
That's it?
So, there's no variation to it other than its looks? Vaporeon's already bulky as is.

What's the pull to this form other than its appearance?

>>29609200
Grimer is googly eyes on a mound of shit, anon.

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>>29613028
>People are always going to dislike things [...]
I'll give you this one. Communicating one's idea and appealing to the masses tend to not go hand-in-hand.
I'm not saying that the designs should be changed in any way, just that the opinions of those who viewed it - even the negative ones - is valid.
To say that one's opinion on a subject matter is not important - or so I believe that is what you are implying; apologies if it's not - seems odd, since you are making something for everyone.

>Criticising it based on an associated had by the viewer is unfair [...]
You're right in that judging something based solely on one's feeling is unfair, but in the end, that is what most people will do; judging by what they feel best.
Only a handful of people would ever judge something based on how the subject matter actually is.
Although I just realized that your definition of "valid complaint" is different than mine, which I guess is what makes this whole thing confusing for me.

Now that I think about it, maybe I'm just projecting what was once my problem onto this.
I really should stop being too bitter about this.

Also, I noticed most of my arguments are just mentioning the same stuff but worded differently, which is not in a good sign. Like, at all.
I concede here; don't think my sleep-deprived brain could afford anymore thinking.
Even if it can, you clearly are more well-versed in this than I am, so arguing against you was an absurd notion in the first place.

I had fun though, danke.

>>29613780
>Also, I noticed most of my arguments are just mentioning the same stuff but worded differently, which is not in a good sign. Like, at all.
Nah, you did good and it's not like I can 'beat you' or anything because you're presenting yourself properly. I do a bit of the art-making so I have all the extra buzzwords and relative insight, but I'm still mostly speculating as much as anyone else.

>To say that one's opinion on a subject matter is not important seems odd
That's always dependent on who is making something and who it is made for and why it is being made. If I make something I will mess around with it depending on where it is being seen and the context of that place based on the audience you would expect there.
Pokemon designers don't have that luxury, their audience is international and multi-disciplinary and even the structure they work within isn't their own since they are working as glorified studio hands for Tajiri whose concept forms the basis for their designs.

>Only a handful of people would ever judge something based on how the subject matter actually is
Yeah, that's more a contemporary problem though. People have platforms to shout from they didn't used to and have developed self-importance in spite of relevant knowledge. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but an opinion has no right to free defamation.
If I call the Mona Lisa a piece of shit (and I often do) it's alright because I can explain myself. If some shitter on 4chan calls something bad then they have an obligation to include an explanation and if that explanation boils down to "I don't like it" then they've wasted everyone's time because whether or not someone likes something has no value outside of their being aware of what they personally like and maybe to a lesser extent to people who know them and want to have a casual conversation. Otherwise it is not worth mentioning.

Thanks for the pleasant conversation

>>29609168
Thats rust, my familia

>>29611465
>A design is automatically good if t meets it's objectives.
The problem here is that you're taking "it communicates ideas" as the only objective.
There are more objectives to meet like the cohesiveness of the design within its universe, the in-world sense of it, and more things.
Alola Dugtrio may meet the "communication" objective, but it lacks a lot in many other departments/objectives, which is why some here are having problems with it.

>>29614175
>There are more objectives to meet like the cohesiveness of the design within its universe, the in-world sense of it, and more things
Actually, they're all part of the idea it needs to meet and I have yet to see any explanation as to how it doesn't achieve these goals.

It's all well and good to make a sweeping statement, but if you can't explain yourself then you may as well not post anything because you have made an argument you've simply suggested that someone might be able to.

If anything, adding the hair to Dugtrio vastly improves it. Prior to this Diglett and Dugtrio were literally just whack-a-mole and nothing else. Now they have hair based in an actual Hawaiian volcanic phenomenon which helps solidify their ground type and it's stylised for dual-purposes in that members of the audience may not be aware of this element but will instinctively recognise the BeeGees hair (which also complements the whack-a-mole thing and it's just smart). The only realistic problem you could have with it is that Dugtrio itself is a bit lame - which it honestly is. Otherwise you're just not liking it and trying to make everyone care about how much you like things. Self-importance isn't healthy and your preferences aren't the same as an actual criticism.

>>29611649
Exactly, the perfect excuse to make it goofy

>>29614298
>they're all part of the idea it needs to meet
I heavily disagree, you just can't take ONE thing of a design (the idea it tries to convey) and say that it automatically justifies the rest of the objectives because they're the same.
They're not the same, a design has different points to meet, and communicating an idea is only one. Plus, your only argument to say that they're all the same is just "because I said so".
So no, you're mixing your opinions of what a design needs to have and taking them as objective.

>you're just not liking it and trying to make everyone care about how much you like things.
>self-importance isn't healthy and your preferences aren't the same as an actual criticism
Holy fuck.
The sad part is that you seemed like a coherent and nice to argue with person until a read that incredibly obnoxious last part.
You're projecting hard, and just because I don't agree with you. You're just like the others in this board.

>>29608720
How would you feel about ground/steel?

>>29614743
>I heavily disagree
No, you heavily projected over what I wrote because instead of reading what is there you imagined something else for the sake of supporting your lack of an argument.
I wrote that a design is made to convey ideas, you wrote that there are other elements to the design and I explained that those elements are all involved and included in my explanation: that a design is made to convey ideas - that being the case because all of those elements are infact ideas belonging to the plural word 'ideas' that you seem to have trouble getting your head around.

It's also important to note that you have yet to explain any of these alleged issues with the design that you are adamant exist, despite being asked to. Likely because there aren't any and you just don't like it.

>The sad part is that you seemed like a coherent and nice to argue with person until a read that incredibly obnoxious last part.
>You're projecting hard, and just because I don't agree with you. You're just like the others in this board
So, in pointing out that you have given no example of any issue but purely outlined that one must exist nonsensically and then offered an explanation as to how that is ridiculous and the thought process and issues surrounding such a bizarre approach to reasoning, you've concluded that I'm obnoxious?
Learn to read mate.

Now either explain what these copious issues are or fuck off because shitposting projected garbage in lieu of an actual argument is fucking pathetic.

>>29608217
Japs love Hawaii but hate the natives. It's also the reason why you will never see a game use pinoy culture or release a game in tagalog.

>>29615698
There's some sort of bad blood between them, isn't there?

>>29608166
so Eevee evolutions are in the wild now?

>>29615529
>No, you heavily projected over
No, I'm pretty sure I just disagree with you, which you're having problems understanding.

>I explained that those elements are all involved and included in my explanation: that a design is made to convey ideas
You didn't explain it at all, you just said it like your opinions are objective facts. So far that's your opinion on the matter of a design, nothing more.

I say that a design is not only made to convey ideas, but also, for example, to fit into the universe of that design, which is a separate goal/objective that can be independent of the idea.
So no, meeting an idea/s does not comprise all of the points a design is made for.
Hell sometimes a design is not even made to convey or transmit an idea, but to make a contrast with another design and make it stand out. If you don't understand this you have no idea of either art design nor character creation.

While Dugtrio conveys the idea of the "pele" thing, I don't think it's well executed due to the different hair styles that are just there for "silliness sake". Another point is that the "goofiness" is over the top, surpassing the usual limits for this specific universe and killing the suspension of disbelief.

And by the way, I concluded that you're obnoxious because your posts are filled with unprovoked ad hominems and continuous projections for those who simply disagree with you.
I haven't, at any time, insult or scorned in any way, so I believe I gave you no reason for using that constant condescending tone.

>>29615823
>bad blood between them
what did he mean by this?

>>29615847
>No, I'm pretty sure I just disagree with you, which you're having problems understanding
So a detailed explanation of why Dugtrio's new hair is fine and makes sense is responded to - by you - with
>They're not the same, a design has different points to meet, and communicating an idea is only one
And when asked to explain what these other things are you ignore that and project insults at me. Additionally, I explain how Dugtrio without the hair is regular Dugtrio so these other things you elude to have to also be present in regular Dugtrio if they exist at all.
Really, you just think that (you) are a special intellectual and that your empty shitposts are the be all and end all of discussions because outside of posturing and implying you have literally said nothing.

>you just said it like your opinions are objective facts
Nope. Didn't even offer an opinion and had a hearty conversation about subjectivity vs objectivity in this very thread which is what you're responding to in a feat of unprecedented hypocrisy.

>I say
More hypocrisy: you allege I am throwing around opinions when I haven't and your response is to make the discussion about you and therefore subjective. You're proving my earlier explanation.

> for example, to fit into the universe of that design, which is a separate goal/objective that can be independent of the idea
As I have already explained to you twice, that is one of the ideas included in the plural word 'ideas'.

>Hell sometimes a design is not even made to convey or transmit an idea
Not true.

> I don't think it's well executed due to the different hair styles that are just there for "silliness sake"
So you don't like it despite the fact that the concept behind the hair has been explained and so I was right all along.

You're self-absorbed and literally all of your defenses here are predicted in the post you're desperately defending yourself against. You don't like it, no one fucking cares.

>>29616003
>when asked to explain what these other things are you ignore that and project insults at me
But I didn't. In fact I gave you examples of these other things in the post you're quoting.
And I didn't insult you, you're the only one who has been calling me a shitposter and acting condescending.

>Really, you just think that (you) are a special intellectual and that your empty shitposts are the be all and end all of discussions
Honestly, that whole line was uncalled for. I'm just not agreeing with you, that's all.
There's no need to project me into being a "dumb shitposter who thinks he's a special intellectual".

>what you're responding to in a feat of unprecedented hypocrisy
In which way am I being hypocrite just for stating my dissent with you?

>As I have already explained to you twice, that is one of the ideas included in the plural word 'ideas'.
Very well then, call them the way you want.
Alolan Dugtrio still not meets all of its "ideas" correctly, just one of them.

>Not true.
If you say so. I guess it's my opinion against your truth too, eh?

>the concept behind the hair has been explained and so I was right all along
And I was talking about the execution, not the concept itself. A met concept/idea does not imply that the execution is well done.

>You're self-absorbed....
Again with the condescending ad hominems.
Look back at my posts man, I haven't attacked you, I'm just stating how I disagree, but all you do is call me a shitposter.
>no one fucking cares
You seem to do.

>>29608166
That is true, but your picture doesn't do anything in regards to your statement.

>>29616252
>I gave you examples of these other things in the post you're quoting
After my stating that making a sweeping statement without an explanation is retarded you posted a sweeping statement without an explanation and then had to be prompted over two walls of text to give one. And that explanation you gave was "I think it looks silly" which isn't anything.

>condescending
I'm just speaking matter-of-factly, you are reacting to factual discourse negatively and that's not my fault. And you have been insulting me by ignoring my explanations, projecting over them and alleging that I've written things that I clearly haven't. Or do you not know what an insult is either?

>I'm just not agreeing with you
You responded to an in-depth conversation covering all of this with "I disagree it looks silly". That's not disagreeing, that's being an ignorant shitposter and waving preferences around like they matter.

>still not meets all of its "ideas" correctly, just one of them
Like, how are you this ignorant? It's like you're desperate to have your hot opinions accepted as facts. I've already gone over all of it and explained how it works. Either contest it properly of go away.

>I guess it's my opinion against your truth too
That's just writing
>"I'm pretending to be baiting now because I can't win but I can try and save anonymous face (despite that making no sense) by falling away from my bad lack of an argument and moving into obvious bait in an attempt to look like I was baiting all along".

>I was talking about the execution
No, you mentioned it being silly. The execution is explained above anyway so that's neither here nor there.

>I'm just stating how I disagree
No, you're saying that you disagree but explaining that you don't like it and refusing to acknowledge what it actually is.

You're proving everything I wrote in my conversation about 'subjectivity' that you responded to with your hot opinions in the first place and it's surreal.

>>29613726
>this Vaporeon would likely be faster and stronger
>instead of a bulkymon

>>29616252

>>29614035
>>Only a handful of people would ever judge something based on how the subject matter actually is
>Yeah, that's more a contemporary problem though. People have platforms to shout from they didn't used to and have developed self-importance in spite of relevant knowledge. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but an opinion has no right to free defamation.
If I call the Mona Lisa a piece of shit (and I often do) it's alright because I can explain myself. If some shitter on 4chan calls something bad then they have an obligation to include an explanation and if that explanation boils down to "I don't like it" then they've wasted everyone's time because whether or not someone likes something has no value outside of their being aware of what they personally like and maybe to a lesser extent to people who know them and want to have a casual conversation. Otherwise it is not worth mentioning.

>>29608166
>"wow Gamefreak is running out of ideas they should really hire these Fakemon artists who actually design GOOD Pokemon"
>posts a picture of a really fucking shitty Fakemon

Every goddamn time.

>>29616446
>that explanation you gave was "I think it looks silly" which isn't anything
Strawman argument.
Again, Dugtrio executes well one of the ideas is trying to convey, but fails at other too but going too far for the Pokemon universe, killing the suspension of disbelief.
That doesn't really sound like "I think it looks silly" to me, but well, whatever.

>I'm just speaking matter-of-factly, you are reacting to factual discourse negatively and that's not my fault.
So according to you, calling me a "shitposter who thinks he's an intellectual" is stating a fact, and I'm reacting bad to that fact?
Do you read what you write?

>And you have been insulting me by ignoring my explanations
I didn't ignore them, I just don't agree with them.
It's that insulting?
>projecting over them and alleging that I've written things that I clearly haven't
But I didn't.

>You responded to an in-depth conversation covering all of this with "I disagree it looks silly"
Again, that's not what I'm saying at all.
My original point was nothing more that a design has way more to it than just the ideas it tries to convey. The conversation somehow deviated to Dugtrio's design which I actually don't care for.

>That's not disagreeing, that's being an ignorant shitposter and waving preferences around like they matter.
And there you go again. Unable to comprehend that not everybody is going to give you the absolute truth.

>Like, how are you this ignorant? It's like you're desperate to have your hot opinions accepted as facts.
Please, do explain to me what makes what you said pure, unarguable facts unlike my posts.

>"I'm pretending to be baiting now because I can't win but I can.....
Seriously, there's no need to project so hard.
I'm being calm and patient while respecting your side and point of view. I just think differently to you.

>No, you mentioned it being silly
No, I was talking about how the idea of the hair was bad executed. Said like three times already.

>>29616446
>that you responded to with your hot opinions
As hot as yours.

>>29616513
I gave you explanations, you decided to read them all as "I don't like it" because you cannot stand someone disagreeing with you.

>>29616757
> Dugtrio executes well one of the ideas is trying to convey, but fails at other too but going too far for the Pokemon universe, killing the suspension of disbelief
One of the ideas? Dugtrio is a package, it carries a lot more than one idea and conveys far more than one as well. You're running in circles with your hands over your ears.
I don't know how having a real geographical feature coming out of their heads is going 'too far' in a world where magnets hatch from eggs and I don't understand how it is immersion breaking if Alolan Raichu isn't since Dugtrios hairstyles could be part-in-parcel with survival techniques (as I already explained) while Raichu just became chill and got Zen surfer powers, brah.

You keep claiming to 'disagree' with me, but things I wrote before you posted easily cancel out everything you've fired at me. Stop defensively backpedaling and either concede that you just don't like something or make an actual point and not a stream of claiming things and removing sentences from their contexts.

Explain how Dugtrio is 'bad'. Do so with words and stop throwing implications and half-statements.
Warning: if you write anything that essentially reads "I don't like it" I'll verbally annihilate you.

>>29616780
Literally still waiting on that explanation.
So far we've got "it looks silly" and "it's too far for Pokemon, I cannot suspend my disbelief [because seeing hair brings about associations that are specific to me and not the fault of the design itself]"... So three versions of I don't like it, all of which explained away by my first three posts in this thread.

>>29616980
>One of the ideas? Dugtrio is a package, it carries a lot more than one idea and conveys far more than one as well.
Please, read again the phrase you quoted from me.
I literally said that Dugtrio executes well one of the idea-S is trying to convey.
The "real geographical feature coming out of their heads" is an idea that is well transmitted, the way this idea was executed on the graphical side of the game design is the part that goes too far, yes, even in a world where magnets hatch from eggs there are still patterns.
The part of its design that breaks the immersion more than Raichu is in the graphical department.
But, regarding the lore that explains them Dugtrio's makes more sense while Raichu is the one breaking the suspension of disbelief.

So we have the, let's call it "lore", that could support better the design of Dugtrio, and the graphical part, which has more in-universe sense in Raichu's design.
This is what I was trying to say from the beginning, a design can have more than just one idea/goal to meet behind them. And they can be independent.

I don't think Dugtrio is bad, again I don't care that much about Dugtrio, all I wanted to say from my very first post is that, even if a design manages to meet all of it's "objectives", there are still other things to take into account that can make it work or don't within the universe/world that design is supposed to be part of.
Things like the graphical side of the design, which again I guess that is, as you said, an idea of an entire package that conforms the design.
But that is my point: a design can be made of several "ideas" as you said, and I'm saying that the fact that one of those ideas work, doesn't make the rest of the entire package perfect.
Some of them can be well done, some others can fail. And that's both in hands of the designer (for the most part) and dependent of the built universe for that design.

I was originally trying to have a conversation about the concept of design, not Dugtrio.

>>29617331
>I literally said that Dugtrio executes well one of the idea-S is trying to convey
And I explained multiple ideas it communicates before you posted, not even counting the ones it communicated pre-Alolan form that are still present too.
If anyone should be rereading posts it's you - infact you should go read the whole thread and do so in pursuit of understanding and not in pursuit of having your hot opinions validated and in contention of anything that challenges them.

>The "real geographical feature coming out of their heads" is an idea that is well transmitted, the way this idea was executed on the graphical side of the game design is the part that goes too far, yes,
>"how is it 'too far'"
>it is
The hair, pele's hair, is a real thing that is made use of to communicate the idea of Dugtrio adopting the hair styles popular during the disco era - the era when whack-a-mole was introduced to arcades throughout the USA and the same era it is likely introduced in as an analogue of that staying true to its source material, getting coated in Pele's hair in theis new environment and fashioning it as a survival technique to avoid being 'whacked. How many times more must I explain that, because we're nearing 10.

You can't even word your argument, you're trying to use words you don't understand to sound smart and saying nothing in the process.

>So we have the, let's call it "lore"
No, lore means history.

You keep saying 'the graphical part', but that isn't anything. The character model is the same as the character portrait and graphical refers more to the engine than the design. You've just typed words and made absolutely no sense.

>there are still other things to take into account that can make it work or don't within the universe/world that design is supposed to be part of
You tried to say that, but haven't explained it and I explained how these things you claim it doesn't meet are easily met by it and your theories are all your preferences.

>>29617511
Listen, you seem to have problems understanding that my points aren't about Dugtrio.
I don't care about Dugtrio here.
I like Dugtrio even.

I'm arguing about the concept of design.
So Dugtrio meets all of its goals/ideas? Good for him, that makes it a great design, but again I'm not talking about Dugtrio. I was just using it as a hypothetical example.
So try to forget about Dugtrio. Hell, I'm not even talking about Pokemon at this point.

All I'm saying, is that the possibility of a design not meeting all of its objectives, but only some of them, can happen.
All I'm saying is that logically there are designs, in other works of art, literature, or whatever, that doesn't meet all of their objectives in
And my point is this: the fact that one objective is achieved in a design, does not always make the rest of the objectives to be meet automatically. Most of the time, several of the objectives of the package have to been met/achieved independently.

>>29617702
>Listen, you seem to have problems understanding that my points aren't about Dugtrio
This thread is about Dugtrio and you posted about Dugtrio having silly hair so sorry for being confused at how you meant something else by posting that you 'disagree' with me about the concepts behind Alolan Dugtrio and then typing incomprehensibly.

>Most of the time, several of the objectives of the package have to been met/achieved independently
Yeah, this is your first time posting that and that's just stating the obvious. Most examples of anything are bad. Most things labelled as 'art' aren't even valid art works. Most designs are bad, most albums suck, most books are terrible. It's rare for anything to do anything perfectly.
Pokemon is remarkable in this respect but that's owed to the precision of its core concepts and the simplicity required for the designs to work in the first place. For the same reasons that a Pokemon's design would be faultless in respect to itself, it could never be held to any high regard outside of its context.

Example: Bewear is a superb design, but if it wasn't a Pokemon and was position as an artwork it would be universally panned. It only works within the Pokemon context or another similar one and can only be appreciated as such.

May I recommend that if you insist on getting involved in discussions like this that you at least go and learn about the subject so you can keep up? Even at a base level by reading Descartes or Barthes - who together would give you the jist of what I wrote (I've never even bothered with Descartes, but he's the father of the whole objectivity thing iirc).
Also, maybe spread out and look into what's happening in design and art in 2016 so you can better understand how this all works - and maybe read back from Modernism up until now because if you don't know that then you probably don't even understand an Aesop Rock verse, let alone the complexities of criticism.

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>>29608867
this?

>>29617939
I'm glad that we have finally come to some sort of agreement regarding the concept of design.
But seriously, you need to stop with the condescending thing; since we started this discussion you have been throwing unprovoked insults.
You have to understand that it can be very detrimental to the conversation and you're not always going to argue with someone with my patience.

By the way, I still think Dugtrio doesn't meet all of the goals of its design, but again I didn't care about that, just for the conversation regarding the concept of design. I honestly think Alolan Dugtrio is great anyway.

>>29608166
They're both disgusting. But at least I can laugh at Dugtrio

>>29618129
>you need to stop with the condescending thing
Here, mate, stop. I'm typing formally. If you infer condescension it is based in some subconscious inferiority complex because This is banter formatted for objective discourse. Up your reading skills, lad.

>You have to understand that it can be very detrimental to the conversation and you're not always going to argue with someone with my patience
Well, there's always the part where everything you posted and argued was explained in the posts you originally responded to which is significantly more detrimental to the discussion seeing as running a conversation in circles and refusing to acknowledge points that had long since been made is sort of the same as shouting over someone and refusing to listen to what they're saying to you.
You tested my patience there, mate, and you need to get over yourself because you offered nothing to the discussion at all besides a rake of barely comprehensible gibberish that lead nowhere that you closed off as though you'd convinced a wild animal to sit at your feet.

Posters like you are worse than the reaction image - empty posters; at least they have the decency to not rant about nothing.

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>>29608477
>The original pokemon worked perfectly in 3D and their designs weren't created with models in mind so your first point is moot.
You're right, because htey've been repeatedly modified when they have to account for details like movement, as seen in the anime. That's why Charizard in the Gen 1 games looks fuck-all like Charizard in anything after it.

That's what he fucking means by the idea being retweaked and edited to fit criteria for what needs to be done in-game.

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>>29608577
>hating on alolan golem
He is a true servant of Allah now...kid
>twin towers on its back
>bushy beard
>brown skin
>learns explosion
you just don't quite get the reference

>>29608166
As much as I hate most of the alolan forms, the point is its the same pokemon just with (in most cases) minor tweaks. THE vaporeon looks cool but it might as well be a completly new eevee evolution

>>29618334
And now that the matter of the design is done with, it's my turn to show you that even all the patience in the world has a limit.

All your posts are filled with huge amounts of projection, yet you accused me of doing so.
And I find that hilarious considering that your justification:
>offered an explanation as to how that is ridiculous and the thought process and issues surrounding such a bizarre approach to reasoning
Was pretty much a book description of a projection.

You said I was an ignorant who believed himself to be intellectual, going in circles with nonsensical gibberish, yet all you did in the entire conversation was to show a huge superiority complex while spouting a circular argument made of nothing but big empty words trying to sound smart.
While I tried to talk calmly I was met with a torrent of ad hominems, strawmans and so. And the best part is that at some point you said that you found "insulting" the mere fact I didn't agree with you from the get go, which is a trait present in actual autism.

In brief, you show the common traits of one of the most well known theories in psychology: Psychological Projection
This combined with the frightening fact that you really believe to have the absolute truth and that your opinions and points of view are irrefutable facts, makes you the kind of person that should never be allowed near a position of power.
You argue like a teenager, completely unable to accept the fact that someone doesn't agree with you validating your "truth", throwing a hissy fit whenever that happens.

I guess what I'm trying to say with all of this is that you're an actual piece of shit human being.
But I don't blame you, wish I could help you.
Now you can answer if you want, won't read it. I know you will post the same shit you've been throwing at me for the past hours.
People like you are incapable to leave their own little world, and I feel genuinely sorry for you.

Welp, glad we could talk this out, off to play Platinum then.

>>29619090
I'm not reading your collection of buzzwords and projections.
It's clear that you never had any intention of contributing to the discussion.
You saw some posts
You saw that they didn't validate your hot opinions
You responded claiming to disagree and making sweeping statements littered with buzzwords and devoid of actual content
You then defensively restated the exact same things and ignored literally every single thing that was explained to you
You then claimed that you were talking about something else all along - something else that again had already been explained multiple times
You then claimed to be saying yet another thing all along - that some things aren't good.
You were then told that that is obvious and you're full of shit.
You take this as being congratulated for being right and proceed to project violently all over the place.

Mate, everything you've posted is an exercise in vanity. Your entire argument is "me, I, to me, as far as I can see, pat me on the back". You came in and spoke as though nothing can be said without your approval, then made no contribution while speaking (incomprehensibly) in a tone as though you were somehow the authority of this thread. Nothing you wrote made any sense, and even the almost arguments you made were already countered by explanations that were already in the thread before you started ranting like a lunatic.

You're pathetic, lad.
I haven't expressed opinions or anything of the sort. I took the object - the design in question - and explained its parts as they are. I also explained basic critical philosophy. All of this completely washes away everything you wrote, all of this was written before you posted at all.

If you were reading the posts you responded to in this first place then you wouldn't have posted at all. You're an ignorant cunt and worthless shitposter, go fuck yourself.

>>29619090
>>29619288

Imagine getting this upset and writing this many words over a discussion about Pokemon designs

>>29619361
>implying I'm upset
I'm just making fun of someone with a serious intellectual disability, mate. That's generally all there is to do on 4chan half the time.

>>29615698
Citation needed

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>>29608203
its still better than this devient art garbage.

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>>29608287
Yea

>>29619612
no its not, go back to liking your tumblrina

>>29618750
>>>/pol/

>>29619612
Go back to your own thread fag.

>>29611267
No, no, they don't BECOME the spiral. That's just what they look like by default. The reason why we don't see them in other regions is because they all attach themselves to Slowpokes and they're out-competed by other species of Shellder.

>>29619288
I like how everything you posted can be applied to yourself. 10/10 pair of idiots.

>>29615698
Or maybe it's because Filipinos rich enough to buy/pirate the game have the third-grade English literacy required to play it.

>>29614047
But they could make one that DOES have gold leaf.
It would make a hell of a lot more sense as to why a LEAFeon becomes a Steel-type than "oh it's rusty because it ate too many pancakes".

>>29619829
No it can't, mate. How can what I wrote initially prove his non arguments and contradict itself while actively doing the opposite?
There's an in-depth explanation and then a flurry of shit thrown at me.
Then there's a pointless shitpost from you that adds nothing to the thread. Great contribution, here's your (you).

>>29608166
that vaporeon looks like shit.

>>29619951
Look m8, I'm not going to take seriously someone who posted a >>29619395 "I was just pretending to be an idiot".
You're both retarded as fuck.

>>29618116
If only.
I guess part of the problem is that despite being a gigantic Hawaii stereotype, there's only one volcano in the entire region. Magmar and Torkoal are the only volcano-dwellers in the regional dex, so Game Freak obviously isn't bothering with any areas with a large amount of lava.

It's a shame, because that Golem is miles ahead of what we got.

>>29620042
How is calling someone a retard after they prove they're a retard saying I'm a retard? Are you not able to read lad?
The post you first replied to is me making fun of him for being an absolute retard who tried to make an argument that was defeated before he posted. I shouldn't have to explain that to you because it's here in plain English.
Learn to read, mate, seriously.

>>29608496
Hey I happen to like Glaceons name thankyouverymuch

>>29608166
>>>29613597
>That's it?
>solid reading comprehension bud

File: congrats_a2d.gif (2MB, 498x338px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 498x338px

>>29619288
>one poster is calm and tries to reason with no conflict until the end
>the other gets mad and uses fallacies the entire discussion
>the first ends up losing his composure after a few hours
>the second still talks like he's the final authority in everything
Just read all of that marital shit and just wanted to say to you in particular that you're the most autistic guy I've seen on /vp/.
Congratulations.

>>29608719
Shut the fuck up, bitch.

>>29619763
>no jokes in MY neck of the woods