Z-moves look awesome, but incredibly broken... Will it be banned

>>29495317
>incredibly broken
Yeah, a 1 PP Hyper Fang +25% real broken there kiddo.

The Tapu's might need Nature's Madness for it to work. I assume so anyway since it's their unique move + Z move.

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>>29495317
>incredibly broken

>>29495317
it probably needs nature's madness. so you're giving up an item and a moveslot to do a one time 75%. and not even guaranteed 75% of max hp, just 75% of CURRENT hp.

so it's probably not worth it. nature's madness does 50% without giving up your item if you want a good amount of set damage. but even then i don't know if many people will use that often unless one of the tapu has really bad attacking stats.

>>29495483
Maybe the female supporting tapus will, they could become Cresselia but with that instead of icebeam.

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If Eevee's Z-move belonged to an actual useful pokemon, yea it'd be broken

>>29496177
Baton Pass

>>29495483
Why would you need a move slot for a z move

>>29496177
Even Eevee can use a 220 BP Stored Power.

>>29496177
OU and other 6v6 formats have crippled baton pass.
VGC is too fast for baton pass.

Its only use will possible be in Battle Spot Singles, which is already cancer.

>>29496361
Because you need a Z crystal and a specific move in order for a Pokemon to have access to its unique Z attack

>>29495317
It didn't even kill the Probopass

>>29495339
Excuse you? I think you mean >1PP Hyper Fang +25% and the Pokémon can't use held items

>>29496513
It does 75% of the opponent's HP.

>incredibly broken

They're literally elemental gems from gen 5 but worse.

>>29498023
The only semi-decent thing you can do with these is do an Explosion!Breakneck Blitz and survive to do another Explosion.

>>29498084
>Self-Destruct Snorlax

>>29496534
Excuse you? I think you mean >1PP Super Fang +25% and the Pokémon can't use held items

>>29496298
>implying Eevee wouldn't die before baton passing

>>29496477
>OU and other 6v6 formats have crippled baton pass.
How?

>>29499132
Extensive bans and clauses.

>>29499297
Where? Smogon?
HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahaha!
Learn2play kiddo.

>>29495317
>Retard who doesn't know jackshit about competitive tries to talk about competitive
Why won't you idiots off yourselves already?

>>29499132
Smogon bans speed passing outside of AG.

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>>29499381
Read >>29499320

>>29499320
What other 6v6 formats are there, retard?

>>29495317
Normal Z crystal Sylveon and Dragon Z crystal Salamence will be the two biggest cancers of VGC. Steel crystal Metagross will also be common.

Screenshot this post.

>>29499388
There is no offical Nintendo 6v6 format. The only 6v6 format offered ingame atm is literally the same as Smogon AG except with item and species clause.

>>29499320
>>29499388
Are you autistic or something?

>>29496361
unique z-moves will probably need a certain move if snorlax is anything to go by. snorlax requires giga impact in its moveset to use pulverizing pancake.

>>29499418
>The ones who will benefit the most from Z-Crystals are Draco Meteor spammers
When will Gamefreak ever learn?

>>29499417
>>29499447
>>29499448
You can play anyone anywhere in 6v6 in game, sticking to fan-made rules is pants on head retarded.

>>29499487
Why is it retarded? Because you say so? It's not like I'm forcing you to play with them, or anyone is. Tons of people play with their friends with self-imposed rules Smogon or not.

>>29499565
Then why post like your shitty self-imposed rules are official? No one care about some fags restricting baton pass when it doesn't matter in game

>>29496177
Eevee practically becomes Arceus who can BPass after it's Z move.

Why do people think it's gonna be shit?

Switch that shit on a slow set up mon, get your boost then get the fuck out.

>>29495317
Probably not, since they're a one time use thing. It's basically just a one shot trump card that everybody has access to.

>>29499677
>Then why post like your shitty self-imposed rules are official?
No one is though. Someone simply spoke about how good or not Eevee Z-Movie would work on Smogon Singles, and even then, that someone also spoke about how it would work on Battle Spot formats. You are the one looking for excuses to be butthurt about. Learn how to read and to not put words on people mouths friend.

>No one care about some fags restricting baton pass when it doesn't matter in game
Some people clearly do considering how many play with Smogon rules and formats.

>>29499827
>considering how many play with Smogon rules and formats.
Like, 0.01% of actual pokemon players? Sure its a lot.

>>29495317
>Draco Meteor that steals your item slot and doesn't refresh on switch-out
>broken

Pick one. The biggest factor preventing Z-moves from being OP is the lack of consistent damage. You'd only ever use a damage Z-move on a suicide lead or revenge killer, because Life Orb or Choice sets will still provide more damage over the course of the match.

>>29498084
Truly a red letter day for mudslimes

>>29496477
Well, it's true that the average baton pass are too slow, but this is a +2 on every stat, it may actually work.

If that happens, expect to see everyone and their mom carry taunt though.

>>29499899
>No one cares about Smogon rules!
>Except some do
>W-Well those aren't enough to satisfy my standards!
Keep moving the goalpost anon. I'm done with you.

>>29499899
ty verlisify

>>29499769
>becomes Arceus
yeah except with no moves and much worse in every regard
>why do people think it's gonna be shit?
because even with a +2 boost in every stat Eevee is still mediocre. Sure, it can get kinda bulky and decently fast, but it'll still be dying in 2 hits to any offensive mon, not to mention you have to actually use it without being KO'd before.
>baton pass
yeah I guess if you want to give your opponent 2 free turns to pass your boosts to a pokemoon that could actually make use of them you could, but then if things go wrong you'd wasted a pokemon for nothing. I'd rather not give free turns and a pokemon slot and use a 180BP STAB z move instead

>>29499482
It won't be as bad as dragon gem abusers because the meta has the tapus of balanced terrains as well as clefable and sylveon who are immune to super-draco meteor.

But it will still be strong as fuck. Actually Sylveon's pixilate hyper beam will be the absolute nastiest shit. Metagross will be really common just as a counter for it. The only x4 fairy resist in the meta is fucking salandit2 since Heatran won't be in until 18.

>>29499487
Smogon AG is literally 'play anyone anywhere 6v6'. It IS the no rules format.

>>29500422
I guarantee you that Smeargle/Eevee/Espeon will become a common battlespot core. It won't be hard to counter if you lead with a fast taunt, but if you don't make the taunt play turn 1 you basically instalose. It will be incredibly good for trashing little kids in unranked.

>>29499482
Dragon spam in a generation with Fairy type Genies with great terrain abilities?

>>29500422
>>29500422
>No moves
You are literally using it to pass it's boosts to another Pokemon

It really needs nothing more than Z move, Protect/sub to scout, BPass and maybe the adaptability boosted quick attack/return.

>It's still dying in 2 hits to any offensive mon
Which is why I said you can use that boost when against a slow defense mon.

>Baton Pass
Yes, Baton Pass
Those 2 turns can be all that's needed.
Consider the smogon bans on BP just because of defense and speed boosts when using it. Eevee +2s EVERY stat in one turn and can B Pass it all the next.

That's not even counting other mon who can already give BPassed boosts to Eevee in a non Smogon format

>>29495317
>probopass used protect
Well, that was easy.

>>29500601
>axew used Steel-type z-move!

If the meta survived dragon gem draco meteors, it'll survive this.

>>29500758
Steel Z moves will actually be prevalent since Sylveon and the tapus will be fuckin everywhere, and Metagross can't carry a mega stone to block knock offs so his next best bet is a Z crystal for his meteor mash.

>>29496298
Nearly any mon in competitive can outspeed and kill Eevee in 2 moves or less

On a related note, what happens if you Encore a Z-move?

>>29499320
>it's another hurr durr Smogon sucks because they ban stuff
Shh it's past your bedtime kiddo

>>29500844
Since Zmoves require another move to work, it would likely just encode the move that it added the 80bp to.

Or just fail

>>29496572
source?

>>29500566
good against shitters =/= good, tho. It's a strategy you can see coming a mile a way, if you fall for it it's your own fault. Incineroar completely shits on this, since it has a dark move that ignores boosts.
>>29500714
yeah, assuming your opponent is retarded and stands there while you do all your stuff sure, it's great! BatonPass teams usually have to get their boosts up severeal times a game, at least against competent players. Eevee is a one time thing that then becomes useless. If you have to pass it a lot of boosts so it can survive to set up then maybe you'd be better off not having it.
No competent player would send out a slow set up mon against an obvious BP team, unless it has haze or some shit like that. Then again that's my opinion, we'll see in time if it's any good

>>29495317
PROTECT

>>29500914
http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-ca/exclusive-z-moves/

It would be cool if all pokemon could use every generic Z move. It would basically be a 1 times super powered Hidden Power.

>>29500966
They can

>>29500988
Really? I thought Pokemon were limited to Z moves of their type.

>>29500966
But they can, so long as they learn a move of that type.

>>29501003
No they just need to have a move of that type. Like Talonflame could use the grass Zmove off of Solarbeam

>>29501032
That's pretty shitty. So if you want a Steel Z move on Garchomp you need to waste a regular move slot on iron head or iron tail.

>>29501003
>>29501005
Now we just need to if Hidden Power counts for other types. Unlikely since it is displayed as Normal, but it is possible.

>>29501059
To be fair I already run iron head so it's not a loss for me

>>29501096
You would also lose out on a useful item.

>>29501114
It'll be very situational, but I think the Talonflame example is a good one. You get a strong move to take out your counters instantly and then wipe everything else with Brave Bird

>>29501157
It works out well for Talonflame only because Solar Beam is a move that Talonflame is never going to use normally. If he does have it he will also have power herb, which takes up the item slot anyway and most likely use it only once a battle. Using Solar Beam+Z crystal would essentially be the same thing but more powerful.

>>29500935
>no competent player would blah blah blah

BPass is legitimtly broken thanks to Magic Bounce recipients and generally has been proven as an immensely successful strategy and remains one /vp/ itself got famously destroyed by.

I can never take anyone on /vp/ seriously who thinks BPass teams are in anyway weak.

>>29495317
>banned from smogon

>>29501269
No one is saying BPass is weak. They are saying that Eevee doesn't have the stats to be a viable passer, even with the boosts AND a safe switch-in.

>>29501269
I never said BP is weak, I said Eevee is not good as it can only contribute one thing to the BPchain and only once, and it can't even do that consistenly since it's weak on it's own. If you take any of the usual mons on a BP team and replace it with a Z move Eevee, I can guarantee the team will be worse.

>>29501448
After one boost it's sitting on base
>110 atk
>100 def
>90 spatk
>130 spdef
>110 speed

In what world is that not at least a decent passer?

>>29501674
stats don't actually work like that, it's quite a bit higher, depending on the investment and all that stuff. But the point was made with unboosted Eevee, which is slow and frail.

>>29501674
The issue is Eevee has to last a turn without a focus sash which will never happen in doubles and will be troublesome in singles.

It will be great in LC but highly niche and predictable outside of it.

>>29496177
Evee will be the ultimate clefable partner in doubles.

>>29503521
Follow me is a thing for doubles. in Singles it can survive if up against a slow primarily defensive mon which in when you should be using the Z move.

>>29503974
*which is when

>>29503974
well go ahead, use it and let us know how it went