Mega-Sableye Suspect Test

>>29483503
woh

this is a thing?

>suspect test less than a month away from a New Generation and thus new Meta, resetting everything
Why?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-process-round-7-diamonds.3585600/

>implying there's anyone on /vp/ who can even break 1200

>>29483553
Cuz they're cucks

who fucking cares?

>>29483553
Because some people still play in old metas so people want things to be in order before main meta moves on.

>>29483553
Because sane people don't jump shit immediately as soon as a new generation starts. We'll also have to wait until Showdown gets updated with the new stuff.

>>29483553

Because, once Gen 7 is out, there'll be no more suspect tests for the Gen 6 metagame. Whatever state it's in when Gen 7 releases is the state it'll be in forever.

Repeat after me

Stall is fun
Stall is skillful

Stall is fun
Stall is skillful

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>>29483529

Wasn't Mega Sableye already suspected and failed to get banned?

>>29483671
his suspect test was paired up, it wasn't a solo test

>>29483622
no

>>29483553
Latias and Salamence went to Ubers in Gen 4 on the verge of Gen 5

>>29483503
It seems like they are trying to make the old meta more fun to play so that people dont remember it for the stallfest that it was/is

Meh, honestly. I don't feel this is necessary but some people will actually enjoy a ban on this guy.

I don't think it will get banned.

>>29483529
lmao, 10/10
stall teams are absolute cancer and need to get destroyed.

I'm curious, how mega stones will be left after Sablenite is banned?

>>29484101
The only banned mega stones are the ones for Lucario, Mawile, Kangaskhan, Gengar, and Salamence.

I prefer non-mega Sableye anyway.

>>29483622
kill yourself

>>29484225
I'm surprised they didn't ban Stingulor's

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>>29484010

>>29484611
Beedrill? Because it has like 15 defense in a meta controlled by physical priority movs.

>>29483553
If it isn't banned now, it isn't banned ever.

We don't want another Gen 2, anon.

>>29484672
I don't play old gens, what's wrong with gen 2?

>>29484739
200 turn average games.
Not even slightly exaggerating.

I remember either gen 4 or 5 testing Stealth Rock at the last possible minute.

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>>29484739
DID SOMEONE SAY STALL

BECAUSE BOY, DO I LOVE ME SOME STALL

>>29484620
>implying stall teams are fun
kys

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stall is fun

>>29484821
I HAVE A STRONG OPINION ABOUT SKUB

>>29483503
Mega sable isn't broken, but fuck stall. Ban this bitch to kill the worst playstyle.

Not like it fucking matters, with SM coming out soon. Who the plays old metas, anyway? Especially one as bleh as ORAS.

>>29484821
>>29484821
stall is only unfun when you run into another stall team

otherwise watching your opponent's pokemon slowly dying one by one is quite amusing

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>>29484865
You take that back. Right. Now.

I know he's defensive, but I didn't; think Sableye was stall. I thought he just killed shit with swag + foul play?

>>29483503
Why do people hate stall so much? Because it's not muh muh muh hyper offense?

>>29485023
I don't think they hate it on principle, they hate it because Somogon deliberately grooms OU in a way that stall is the most vaible option by far.
Which results in nothing but stall vs stall matches. Which loses novelty fast.

>>29485023

Basically. They hate seeing all their efforts stopped cold at every turn.

>>29485023
>smogon only bans to protect muh stall
>smogon only bans to protect muh hyper offense

>>29485006
Swagger is banned by smogon lol

>>29485080
>Baaaaaaaaaw Smogon loves stall baaaaaaaaaaw
>On a thread discussing Smogon suspecting the center-piece of Stall
Yeah, right. Those damn smogonfags who don't let me use my bro Ledian in OU amirite?

>>29485130
>>On a thread discussing Smogon suspecting the center-piece of Stall
Only a month before things are back to zero too! So punctual!

Already voted to keep Mega Sableye,
baka
he's muh nigga

>>29485161
Depends if Showdown does a Bank SM ladder right away like what we got with XY. I don't remember seeing Sableye in the Alola dex.

>>29485177
>already voted
>voting isn't even open yet

>>29484910
this is pretty much true

in full stall, a lot of the time the best play is to just double endlessly, if you have no breaking power

>>29484629
even normal Stingulor is stronger than Mega Beedrill

>>29485023
I don't even believe that stall is the real problem here. I contend that the actual problem is how Smogon themselves have handled XYORAS.

>>29483503
are they suspect testing whether it should be a ghost type because it is neither a spirit or possessed object?

>>29485023
People blame stall for long and boring matches even though it isn't the problem. Bulky offense mirrors result in the same shit when people play matchups correctly but because it's considered offense, it gets a free pass.

Just look at this shit. Both players running bulky offense and manage a match that lasts over 1000 turns. http://jskingboo.github.io/showdown/replays/OU-2016-10-06-abr-idmtubby.html

>>29483891
Are you even good enough to feel that it isn't necessary?

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>using the mega
>not running prankster sableye, one of the most fun pokemon to use
Disgusting.

>>29485209
Sableye is actually in thevalola dex, first island.

Finally, something good to read.

>>29485385
Boy do I love me some switch-out fests.

>>29485432
You can do both, and do both effectively too.

>>29485467
Well fug. Hopefully it gets banned now and doesn't get brought back down. And if it does, I hope they pull another Blaziken and get rid of it before it can cause any permanent damage to the metagame.

How do I figure out if my coil is high enough?

>>29485283
Why on earth you wouldn't have breaking power?

>>29485432
That mega art is wrong, the big gem M-Sab uses as a shield is the one in its chest, just embiggened

>>29485257
sorry, anon
meant "in discussion threads"

>>29485385
no this shit doesn't get a pass either

>>29485981
>embiggened
Thats an unoldened one

>>29485972
Stall doesn't break in a manor that allows most matches to end quickly, so when two stall teams face each other they'll go on until someone gives up or makes several miscalculations and loses

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>>29486242
>manor

>>29486456
Yeah, so what? Whats the mater?

>>29483503
>Smogon
Stopped reading there.

>>29483503
I hate this thing. If I lose Gardevoir, the only thing I have to touch it is Dazzling Gleam Gengar.

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Winning is winning and if you can't run an umbreon with heal bell you should git gud.

>>29483503
Nah, leave Mega Sableye. If it becomes the last ban before ORAS ends, the meta will still forever be a mess because everyone and their mom lose nothing by running Mega Medicham + Pursuit backup. And there won't be enough time for a Mega Medi suspect with the span of this test and the voting period with Sun/Moon right around the corner. At least Mega Sableye-led stall has answers in stuff like M-Hera and LO Torn-T -- it's easier to deal with stall than Pure Power + Dark spam.

Mega Sableye is annoying, but no way is it ban worthy. I highly doubt Smogon is retarded enough to actually ban it, even the suspect is unnecessary.

>>29488953
>swagger
they banned a move because they are babbie who can't handle confusion+para hax, whinging about it being unfair and annoying.

smogon are faggots who will vote to ban anything that upsets their copypasta ou team.

>>29489570
It's going to get to the point where only 6 pokemon are in OU. All the same items. All the same sets.

>>29488692
>Umbreon
Is there a more consistently mediocre pokemon than Umbreon? In every gen it has always been a shittier blissey.

>>29489570
Swagger turns everything into a bullshit coin flip.

>>29489794
>it's not a viable strategy because it allows weaker pokemon to sweep my smogon approved team and smogon said they shouldn't be able to do that

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Maybe offense players should stop relying on Tyranitar and Heatran as wallbreakers and use something else, like Superpower Nidoking, Choice Band Cloyster, Crawdaunt, Life Orb/Mega Garchomjp, LO Salamence etc. Or offensive Lum Berry Garchomp etc

Literally whiny babies

t. HO player

>>29483503
"Bwaaaah my sneky pebbles"
"Bwaah my smogomomomomomom"
"Bwah BAN BAN BAN BAN!"

fucking smogonfags

>>29485432
Sableye in UU destroys both hyper offense and stall kek

t. forfeited multiple matches because I couldn't do shit against Sab because it burned everything and taunted my set up sweepers

>>29490177
>Superpower Nidoking
How good is this and what does it beat? I've been running physically based Infernape with Overheat as a wallbreaker and its been pretty reliant

>>29483563
I have reached 1700 and above. I'm also a smogonfag.

>>29490177
CB Cloyster is a cteam option at best, for ABR stall.

It's barely going to pull its weight outside of that with Alomomola, Slowbro, Suicune, and the like running around.

If anything, the King's Rock Sub Shell Smash set is better.

>>29485397
It can be broken ridiculously easy by loads of stuff that already break stall, volt turn specs and banded mons already shit in stall, sadly no one uses them.

I'm perfectly fine with cb Rhyperior as my answer to stall, shits on Zapdos and 2hkos Quagsire/Skarmory/Clefable on the switch.

Banded Ttar is another one, mega Sableye can only switch on them after you already KO something.

People are too afraid of using wallbreakers that work through unaware.

>>29490262
it all rock setters in the meta as well as chansey, nidoking's ice beam 2HKOs physdef Zapdos (most common stall defog user), Earth Power 2HKOs Sableye after a bit of prior damage:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Mega Sableye: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

>0 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 302-356 (47 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

>>29490318
it beats

>>29490290
sui I thought you said you were going to sleep

>>29490318
that's not how superpower works, the calc is unreliable since it doesn't take into account the drop, i.e. it's a shit move to cover chansey

>>29490318
Nice

>>29490307
>King's Rock Cloyster
When did this stop being a meme?

>>29490363
it 2HKOs if Chansey is at 80%, which is easy to achieve because:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 101-121 (15.7 - 18.8%) -- possible 6HKO

>>29490396
you hit it with sludge wave, is probably around 80% now, you hit it with the first superpower, it loses 50%, now it is at 30% - then the next superpower hit kills it.

>>29490396
>>29490460
that whole gambit falls apart if they either heal on you after the initial hit or switch to mega sableye, since it takes on earth power, and if chansey ever gets to heal again nidoking won't be able to beat it for the rest of the game knowing your set

>>29490177
>Superpower Nidoking
t. sub 1300 player
Nidoking is well known for being able to break through anything but chansey and blissey.

>>29490363
That wasn't me but I can't sleep so yeah.

>>29490318
The calcs are wrong, for that you are better off using defiant thundurus who actually defeats Sableye, Clefable and Chansey without relying on over prediction and has a better speed tier.

This gimmick is sad man.

>>29483503
Wait, what? Again? I thought this hatchet was buried with Shadow Tag

>>29489600
So, VGC?

I voted ban on Sablenite last time and my opinion hasn't changed at all, I'm going to vote again to ban this niggergoblin and you all (I know that most of /vp/ is godawful at this game but I also know there's a decent enough minority capable of making reqs) should too. MAKE OU GREAT AGAIN.

>>29491618
I'm voting no ban. Waiting for the ladder to flesh out before bothering to start.

Did you think through that Gen VI OU would be stuck forever without a reliable answer to Mega Medicham if Sablenite gets banned? I've seen it's already happening on the ladder, people abusing M-Medi + Pursuit/Dark spam cores because there isn't anything reliable to answer it. It sucks that they're doing this now because by the time the suspect test and voting results are through, Sun/Moon will be here and we won't have time to suspect Medi which will inevitable abuse the meta.

>>29491618
>(I know that most of /vp/ is godawful at this game but I also know there's a decent enough minority capable of making reqs)
I don't think the average John /vp/ could make it high enough on the ladder to get the requirements. Remember, these are the kind of players who, after 2 generations, still can't into building a team that doesn't get murdered by sneaky pebbles.

>>29491763
I mean comparing the number of people who frequent Showdown and Smogon forums in general compared to the ones who ladder and vote, it's fair to say that people who can get reqs are a minority of pretty much every community, Smogon included.

>>29491683

In regards to your point about Mega Medi my opinion is I can see how Mega Medi would seem a lot more threatening, but I don't think Mega Medi will get unmanagably so in the wake of a Sablenite ban. It will undoubtedly receive a boost, as will other things like stallbreaker Mew, but I feel like there are enough viable checks to Mega Medi that won't warp the meta too much either at teambuilder or in play, for example, Bold Clefable which has risen in popularity recently, good ol' Lando-T and Slowbro and yeah Mega Medi can run Zen, Ice or T-Punch to deal with them but they're pretty reliable overall and it can't run all its options at once, especially if it wants to run BP, not to mention offensive checks to Mega Medi as neutral natured base 100 isn't hard to outpace. It's also not like every team in OU runs Mega Sableye right now and that not doing so means an auto L when you face Mega Medi. Offense and bulky offense usually pack the tools to be able to counterplay Mega Medi, even when paired with a Dark type partner like Band Tar, and slower playstyles and builds have always been dicked by Mega Medi and I can see the Sablenite ban having the most adverse effect on stall, but I think all things considered a Sablenite ban will be an improvement.

I remember during the Shadow Tag/Sablenite test the MediSharp/ Medi+Dark archetype was popular, I used some cheesy MediSharp RMT for half my reqs run myself, but I never felt like it was overly centralising or that I had to go too far out of my way to be able to equip myself to deal with it when I had to face it, for instance, I use Specs Keldeo a lot and it's pretty common overall and it threatens the hell out of that offensive core. People brought up Mega Medi in the previous suspect discussion thread and the consensus was that pre Sablenite era showed Mega Medicham wasn't broken in the absence of Mega Sab and that its enhanced performance on the Sablenite-less suspect ladder was deemed acceptable.

>>29491683

Also just want to add to >>29492145 that shiny new toy syndrome is pretty pervasive any time a new mon enters/leaves OU like the MediSharp spam on Sableniteless ladder or when Volcanion was released, and yeah the timing of this is pretty frustrating on the part of the OU Council.

>>29484739

You think stall is bad currently?

GSC stall makes ORAS stall look like hyper offense.

Anyway why is Mega Sableye getting suspected again?

>>29483503
>Smogon

lol

>>29485130
I agreed with this until they banned hoopa. The people voting are stallfags and that yields more stall. Stall begets stall.

>>29492145
Having to run several answers to scout the M-Medi set runs you back into a problem of overcentralization that makes the game unhealthy.

>It's also not like every team in OU runs Mega Sableye right now and that not doing so means an auto L when you face Mega Medi.
It stems from the teambuilder, not the already present meta. People are discouraged from using a team featuring Mega Medicham to begin with because they know it will do little in the stall matchups and act as a virtual 5-6, where Mega Lopunny or Mega Heracross or a different style of Mega would be decided to see play altogether. With Mega Sableye gone, people are inspired at the teambuilder to bring Medi, and have all the incentive to bring it. Checking it doesn't earn you a pat on the back when you can end up losing a mon each time it's free to attack.

Pre-Sablenite era lacked Mega Medi for a reason, so that's bull. There were more effective breakers like Mega Mawile to shunt incentive to use Medi and more reliant walls like Aegislash to keep Medi from the door.

>>29492189
The thing is it still leaves Gen VI OU in a disastrous state regardless of it being new toy syndrome, since the threat is real. The way you have to equip your team to handle Sable-led stall is akin to the way you have to equip your team to assure you don't just lose a mon every time Medi comes in.

>>29490118
Klefki is still ou tho

Can we suspect Mega Diancie too?

>>29490177
>Choice Band Cloyster
>Not Shell Smash White Herb Cloyster
Can I have some of what you're smoking?

>>29493025
Not nearly as bad as Mega Sableye.

>>29483503
Official stats:
| 29 | Sableye-Mega | 7.71031% | 266516 | 4.260% | 224164 | 4.872% |
Is this another "ban this overhyped mon, because we actually have to think when we play against it" situation?
Friendly reminder Mega Altaria was suspected "best mega durr" and already dropped to BL.

>>29490247
>set-up sweeper
Slap Choice Specs and some Fairy coverage on your special sweeper of choice and watch him weep.

>>29493025
Mega Diancie is fine. It has numerous counters in things like mixed defenses Slowbro/Slowking, SpDef Hippowdon, Chansey, SpDef Gastrodon, Milotic, Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Clefable, Sylveon, Vaporeon, SpDef Jirachi, etc.

>>29493059
It's legit, but an isolated instance of breaking stall since the prominent stall team at the time had no Ice resists and Band meant outmaneuvering Quagsire's Unaware. Needless to say, you shouldn't run Banded Cloyster.

>>29490308
So much this.

I dont know if I should be happy my favourite mon is considered amongst the best nonlegends there are, or a bit angry I wont get to use its mega anymore.

At least prankster sableye is still good, effective and fun

Why don't they just unban M-Mawile?

>>29489794
People only cared when Klefki can use Swagger.

Most pokemon with Prankster + Swagger can't even take hits

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Does smog on ever post top performing teams? I wanna know what teams are doing well on the OU ladder, not just individual mons

>>29486615
It's spelled manner, you dongus. Manor is like an estate.

>>29494698

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard

Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Counter
- Spikes
- Defog
- Roost

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover

Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore

Have fun.

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>>29483503
>still playing Smogon rule sets
>not gitting gud and playing superior VGC
I do play Showdown; Stall is the dumbest tactic, and Sableye is pretty oppressive so I am okay with this ban

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>All these blatant stallfags adhomming and saying any variant of "people want it banned because they can't break stall"

I know you guys don't think it's that obvious, but it is.

If you compare ORAS Sab stall to any other gen's stall, or indeed any other defensive archetype in any game, you'll see just how stupid and matchup based it is. I've gotten to top 10 on the ladder with Sab stall numerous times, so I can tell you with confidence that it is easily the most brainless thing in pokemon, on par with full bp chains.

>>29490308
If people aren't using any breakers at all, you should probably try getting out of the 1200s.

>>29492656
At the end of XY, both Aegi and Mawile were banned. Medicham wasn't broken then, and it wont be broken now.

>>29483622
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery

This meta will be dead in 3 weeks. Who even cares?

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>>29495660
Smart Anon

>>29495714
Contradiction is truth

>>29494674
Swag play umbreon is a lot of fun. This coin flip argument is bull shit too, because confusion is great passive phazing. I run yawn on swag play umbreon to further incentivize phazing. Have hazard stackers on your team to tax switching.

>>29494674
Keep in mind it wasn't just booboo keys but also the implementation of Foul Play. Then you can throw in some other bullshit like Substitute or Thunder Wave.

>>29494625
Fucking this, it can hardly take an earthquake and they send the thing to ubers.

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>>29483503

>my sweep team loses to a wall team

Just use toxic and confuse ya ding dongs.

>>29483529
For a second I thought that full moon healing was a pokemon I had forgotten about and didnt know was viable.

>>29495742
Are you this blind? If old metas like Black, White, and everything else beyond are still active what makes you think the ORAS meta will just spontaneously die like that? It's not. Every meta has its fans and the Sun/Moon meta might potentially be worse than ORAS's meta.

>>29495660
>At the end of XY, both Aegi and Mawile were banned. Medicham wasn't broken then, and it wont be broken now.

Medi is broken. You're confusing broken with used. See Lando-I.

Man, I'll use like one staller, not an entire team of them.
>tfw based eviolite bayleef

>3 immunities and just 1 weakness
>Huge defenses
>Magic bounce so you can't even use Toxic or Taunt on it
>Will o wisp so it shuts down physical sweepers
>Calm Mind so it shuts down special sweepers
>Gets Foul Play so you can't set up on it
>Gets Recover

Mega Sableye is fucking broken as a defensive Pokemon.

>>29495660
I have actually ranked high dude, but honestly people that complain about stall are faggots that never used a wallbreaker and the proceed to complain about why their scarf Keldeo can break amoongus then get double switched into pursuit weavile and lose their latios...

Some people just don't know how to use wallbreakers and rely on a single offensive Pokémon to deal with a single defensive threat wich forces them to switch too much...

It's not that stall is too strong, it is that these idiots don't know how to use wallbreakers.

>>29496751
>what is Magic Bounce

>unnecessarily ban offense mons like greninja, aegislash and mega-mawile
>wahhh stall is OP better ban stallmons

Smogon jumped the shark a long time ago, back in gen 5 really. Absolutely no reason to take this or their silly 'meta' seriously when the superior, sensibly regulated official format exists and is infinitely more popular.

>>29485528
>Hopefully it gets banned now and doesn't get brought back down
Why? The start of Gen VII is going to torpedo Mega Sableye's viability thanks to the incoming Tapus of Healthy Meta.
>>29495714
>>29496227
>KLK

>>29498868
You mean the one where every team is Primal Groudon, Xerneas, Mega Kangaskhan, Talonflame, and Smeargle?

>>29500311
Fug forgot Aegislash

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>>29498868
fucking this!!!!!!!

>>29500311
you know VGC 2016 is basically over right, VGC is also not the only official meta

>>29483553
Because someone called out the council for laziness and inactivity during the whole Dugtrio drama last month and that made them rethink testing Mega Sableye.

>>29484010
>lolol Wish baton pass Swords Dance priority sweep
>OMG FUCKING STALLMONS ARE CANCER
>INTERRUPTING MY SWEEP IS CAAAAAAAAANNNCEEEEEEER

Without stallmons, every match would end as soon as someone got a sweeper prepped.

Maybe smogon should git gud

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>>29483503
>caring about Smogon

>>29500926
Dugtrio is a valuable trapper in the tier. It takes advantage of the fact that Heatran with its crazy number of 4x resists doesn't go unpunished where it can be.

Not to mention, it can remove huge pains like Kyurem-B or Chansey. Mega Sableye is a valuable mon to have based on the support it can lend to mons otherwise harassed by hazards.

If they really wanted to fix stall, they'd remove Chansey and by extension Blissey. Naturally, stall has its weaknesses, but they become on even playing field with the other playstyles if Chansey goes. It's the defensive equivalent of mons banned to Ubers. There is no replacement to the Chansey line that can offer as much team support as it does. It really boggles my mind how people can't see how unhealthy it is to wall all special attackers that hit on the special side.

>>29496702
>A Pokemon is weak to a powerful attack
Might as well bring down MegaLuke along with it

>>29501511
I wasn't arguing either were broken just saying how the test started.

Honestly I feel like something is wrong with ORAS OU but I can't exactly figure out the full cause other than the bloat of high BST threats.

>>29501803
The main problem with ORAS is there are so many different offensive threats that you can't prepare for them all without compromising your ability to break through fat stuff. Conversely if you pack two different breakers to cover all the different variations of Sableye teams you're just going to get steamrolled by every offensive team ever unless you outpredict your opponent at every single turn.
M-Sableye needs to be banned to kill stall teams. It will completely centralise the tier around spike stacking, but that's still much better than facing this matchup-dependent cancer.