Literally this years finale

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>>29415098

HEALTHY META

>>29415098
it's horrible isn't it? you shouldn't be able to use legendaries. No fucking genies, no fucking groudon just end it. It is fucking garbage and it shits up the meta

How do we fix the meta?

It was pretty funny that there was only one difference between the two teams of 6. The 4-on-4 match turned out to be pretty hype anyway.

>>29415109
you can only use normal pokemon. that is literally all they have to do.

>>29415109
VGC2017 fixed the meta by not allowing anything but alolan dex mons and banning Megas

>>29415134
>Tapus become the new meta

>>29415136
>koko a-raichu becomes the meta

>>29415134
>fixed the meta
For one year.

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>>29415142
You mean "no priority: the meta".

>>29415098
smogon tiers need to be officially adopted

>>29415155
they basically are. your post doesn't display an understanding of what smogon tiers actually are.

>>29415124
Normal the type? Or normal meaning no Legendaries, megas, mythical, etc ?

>>29415155
>>29415501
ITT: retards

>>29415155
>>29415501
>>29415530
ITT: retards

>>29415109
that's easy anon, they should use Smogon rules

>people think Smogon meta is healthy
Can there truly be a game without everyone pretty much using the same general teams/builds?

>>29415530
>>29415548
>>>29415501 (this is me)
i'm not saying i like or pay attention to smogon, but go look up what they say about primal groudon. they call it mandatory.
smogon tiers afaik aren't like... they ranked every pokemon. its just how much use each pokemon sees.
and yes, then within that they ban whatever they don't like, which is stupid..
but this is essentially what already exists, so... congrats. meta fixed for all of these fuckers who think smogon should run vgc or whatever they think.

>>29415554
Yes but this requires there to be multiple viable options among a role, and more importantly that one or two don't outpace everything else in that role by miles.

The way pokemon is set up, there is no way to make a diverse meta since the meta goal will always be to use the best available for that edge to win. If you remove what is used now, a new small group of pokemon will replace them.

>No legendaries
>Slowdown sweepers
>Speed up tanks


Fixd

>>29415106
This, it's fucking cancer
>INB4 genie cucks say "ya because Articuno and Phione are dominating OU"
It's better to get rid of them completely, once you let nudity on any website, it instantly becomes a porn site

>>29415134
The box legendaries, Mangina and the UB of their catchable will dominate

>>29415583
Smogon's tiers have nothing to do with official metas, they use different formats with a different set of rules

I've never been one for competitive, but wouldn't 6v6 be an exciting category to add? It would allow a lot of variation in teams, yeah? Niche Pokemon would be able to get a slot on a team provided the team is built well and covers eachothers weaknesses. I don't know much about it but I guess it seems they're pretty set on just going with the format they have now, though.

>>29415109
Easy
>No Legendaries or Mythicals
>No Overpowered Mega Forms

It's that simple

>>29415608
But there's also plenty of regular pokemon that are far more powerful than most of these legendaries
The game just gets more unbalanced with each generation, there is no viable competitive environment here without a laughably long and convoluted banlist

>>29415628
Even the most powerful non mega or legendary, be it Garchomp or who ever, is still at least defeatable by most fully evolved Pokémon. Even Pokémon like Mewtwo, Lugia and and Yvatel struggle against primal Groundon and Mega-Fug. Also you're not killing Landerious without a speedy special attacker with ice beam

>>29415656
Also I forgot, can we just wipe Mega Mom from existence, like can we all pretend it never existed

>>29415624
If anything, 6v6 does the opposite of promote variety. Since you need to bring your whole team every game, there's a larger risk of bringing niche mons. 6v6 also has serious issues with Stealth Rock fucking up the type chart and switching being low risk high reward

>>29415656
You're not killing Megamence or Garchomp without one either. Most? Bullshit. The disparity between UU and OU is just as bad as the disparity between different legendaries.
Gamefreak doesn't care about balance and has been pissing on it for multiple generations just so they can push new gimmicks like stronger priority, aerilate and spinoffs, weather spam, etc.
Sure they eventually nerf some of it but they just introduce new game breaking things instead
You'll end up just spamming hyper offense because the only alternative is running some retard team with all the gimmick counter moves they add like psychic terrain and rapid spin

>>29415620
>Smogon's tiers have nothing to do with official metas,

Again, smogon's tiers reflect only usage rate

if the 'official' meta of pokémon is that everyone uses primal Groudon, then Smogon puts it in OU

the only tier anyone at smogon 'decides' to put pokémon is is the banlist

>>29415725
>then Smogon puts it in OU

Ubers, even

>>29415725
>Again, smogon's tiers reflect only usage rate
Yes, but only for their own format, not official formats. There's no correlation between the two

>>29415725
>Again, smogon's tiers reflect only usage rate
Under their own rules, therefore
>remove itemclause
>add sleepclause, moodyclause, evasionclause, swaggerclause, OHKOclause, endlessbattleclause and maybe batonpassclause
>restrict the use of leppa berry
Did I forget something?

>>29415109
Competitive pokemon is a joke, stats/movepools/ability distributions are unbalanced and there's too much rng going on anyways.

>>29415757
>6v6
>banning about 10 different Pokemon
>allowing all the mythicals

>>29415757
>allowing non-pentagon movesets like softboiled clef

>>29415660
Mega mom has been nerfed iirc.
Parental bond does 25% damage now instead of 50%, which is more reasonable.

>>29415787
/thread

>>29415757
EndlessBattle is redundant on cartridge anyway

>>29415098
wow! its fucking nothing!

>>29415871
I won't be happy unless they remove power up punch sword dance to

>>29416099
They did, it's not a TM anymore

>>29415615
They ban certain legendaries

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This was U.S nationals finals dipshits. Worlds finals was pic related

>>29416099
They did that too; P-Up Punch is no longer a TM, so the only Pokémon that can legally use it in the next VGC is Lucario.

>>29416139
Unless it becomes an egg move

>>29415098
Literally my moms vgc final

>It's a people who don't play competitive bitching about competitive and thinking they know better than the people who actually play competitive thread
Kill yourselves already.

>>29416757
wow a pro player must be so hard to rip off nuggetbridge articles and press protect all day

I don't see why people are complaining. If anything, this proves Pokemon is extremely competitive. More so than Smash. After all, how many dittos have you seen in a Smash vs VGC? VGC has a lot more dittos, which requires skill rather than good match-ups.

I don't get why people bitch about Pokemon's meta so much.

Go look at the metas for TCGs out there. Some shit is going on. Everyone uses the same 3 decks in rotations.

Games like Pokemon and TCG cannot be balanced because they are inherently built unbalanced from the ground up

Banning non-Alolan Pokemon is a good step though. Having formats that change every year to shock the meta is better than nothing

>>29416887
>>Banning non-Alolan Pokemon is a good step though. Having formats that change every year to shock the meta is better than nothing
I agree, however, I believe this year is gonna be quite so-so. The dex variety is super shit considering nearly half of it is nothing but Kanto shitmons. Kalosdex had a much better spread in my opinion.

Also, Tapus of Healthy Terrain. I can already hear the bitching about them.

>>29415608
There is a huge difference between the 600BST trio legends and shit like Groudon.

Groudon and all legends of his caliber are normally banned from VGC, but the last season of a generation always lets them in. I really don't think they should do this anymore because if gens are getting shorter it's just ruining a season of VGC.

>>29416854
This is someone's real opinion

>>29416854
>I don't see why people are complaining.
They complain because they are people who don't play competitive and most of all DON'T understand competitive. They are just people who want to see their favorite shitmon on the screen and whine like toddlers when they do not.

Honestly, I can half-understand them, Pokemon shoves down your throat that all Pokemon are equal, to love your favorite Pokemon and stuff like that but the game itself kills the message because Pokemon is a numbers game, there's no anime logic where a Pikachu can take down two pseudos because of the power of bro. Even Gamefreak itself throws the message they so much promote into the trash when doing stuff like giving Charizard 2 Megas and the such.

>>29416954
I blame the Primals more than big legends in generals regarding VGC16. You cannot opt out of a free mega without putting yourself in a major disadvantage just like that. VGC10, the last time big legends were allowed, was actually quite fun because you weren't basically strong-armed into running Groudon or Kyogre if you wanted to win at all.

>>29416932
dude
psychic terrain
lmao

>>29416854
dittos in a metagame like vgc that is so fast paced and limited in your options doesn't allow as much skill as you think.
The only thing that sets them apart is what ev builds/movesets/item slots they're running, which were all determined before the match even began. This is of course not taking into account the rest of the team, it's synergy and whatever setups they've already put into play.
But again, a lot of that is just variables that were fixed before the actual game. 'Competitive Pokemon Players' can show their skill in long single battles or sets of double battles, but a lot of it is in preparation rather than adaptation.

not related but competitive pokemon is also a terrible spectator sport, the animations and pace were made to entertain and challenge 12 year olds and people are trying to hold this up to esports

>>29416854
Because in any competitive game it's never interesting seeing everyone use the same thing to do the same thing over and over and over. EVO for SFV was literally Nash mirror matches and the one underdog who got a Mika up high.

>>29415787
>stats/movepools/ability distributions are unbalanced

Good thing everyone can choose the best combination by themselves and nobody is forced to use the shit pokémon.

>>29417244
>implying everyone running very similar sets isn't boring as hell

>>29415608
Use 3rd party URL category sources for firewall, can confirm one tit = one ban

>>29417253
That's competitive in a nutshell. Don't play or watch if you don't like it, simple as that.

>>29415109
Go back in time and kill the idiot who thought up megas

>>29415098
Haven't seen this many critical hits in years

>>29416797
Mega Mom was the worst thing to ever come out of Pokémon

>>29416887
Because if meta is shit then comp pokemon is fucking garbage.

Look at Dota, CSGO, hell, even team fucking fortress, they're far from perfect but they're far more competetive than this shit

Besides, whats the fun in Pokemon when you're forced to use the same mons, or else you'll be at a mathematical disadvantage? Pokemon isnt suited for competetive play, it's suited for having single player fun on a bus, and shit like this >>29416797 >>29415099 >>29415098 proves it

>>29415098
>Player A wins speed tie
>A's Groudon used Preciple Blades
>The attack missed
>Player B's Groudon attacks
>It's a crit
>gg, the better player won

>>29417376
VGC 2016 doesn't prove anything, they knowingly allowed unbalanced Pokemon

>>29415152
I KNEW THAT TAPU LOOKED FAMILIAR

>>29417376
You can't compare the two though. Those are online games that get constant balance patches.

Pokemon is more like a TCG game where there are no balance patches, the format just slightly changes with every new game like a TCG would with every new set.

That's what I mean though. Pokemon is in the realm of TCG and will never be in the same level as Dota and CS:GO unless you seriously expect GameFreak to release constant balance patches.

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>>29415099
This sums up the picture.

tfw vgc is less diverse than smogon

what happened?

>>29417716
It's not, it was for a few years though I'd say, XY meta was good and Sun/Moon meta will be better and they learned their lesson and nerfed M-Kanga etc.

>>29415098
ALL AROUND ME ARE FAMILIAR FACES

>Raichu and Hitmontop were on the winning team
>Groudon wasn't

heheheheheheheh

>>29415109
Why don't they just have each player choose 3 Pokémon to ban and 5 items to ban.

Discuss.

When the fuck did bronzong become so popular?

>>29415109
Here you go.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/formats/doubles/

>>29417817
>trick room
>gyro ball
>calm mind
>iron defense
>etc

>>29417427
Kekekek

You forgot that player B also had to break through confusion tho.

>>29417716
VGC was never more diverse, it was always just a meme.
Not that diversity is neccesarily a good thing for a competitive enrionment. A common complaint among top ORAS OU players (which was echoed among some top players in VGC14) has been that the game has become quite matchup dependant due to there being too many viable pokemon.

>>29417817
In VGC16, it offers the useful utility tools of the support Psychics (Trick Room, Skill Swap, Gravity etc.) while also resisting attacks from key meta mons (Xerneas, Salamence, Rayquaza) and on the Gravity centred builds able to apply pressure with hypnosis.

>>29417833
>played by scrubs who think Mega Salamence is broken
Why bother?

>>29417817
>Completely walls Xerneas
>In rain, Groudon can't even touch it thanks to Levitate
>Excellent defensive typing in general
>Great bulk
>Access to Trick Room, Gravity (so you don't miss your low accuracy moves and can hit flying types with ground moves), Hypnosis, Gyro Ball (hits Xerneas like a fucking truck after it boosts), Skill Swap, Safeguard and other great supporting moves

It's just great.

>>29417716
The biggest factor is that stall as a dedicated team build is viable in singles, the other is that Smogon bans (or at least tries to) according to a mon's actual dominance in a given meta, rather than according to availability and BST. Otherwise, VGC 2016 (and gen6 in general, thanks to Megas and Primals) caused team building to be a top-down process; you had one or two slots for mons which far outmatched the rest of the meta, so finding the mons to complement them (and playing them in actual matches) was based on two simple factors: if said mon was able to reliably survive a hit from one of the big guns, and whether it could reliably set the playing field in a way that would allow the centrepiece of the team to smash into the opposing threats. VGC '16 was particularly bad about this, as the raw power disparity between the weather trio, Xern and Yveltal to the rest meant a very offensive meta where games were quite often won or lost on turn one; there were three and a half viable megas, and hardly any support mon could threaten the restricted mons (with several exceptions such as HP water meme sets like Meowstic).

Otherwise, doubles, or VGC in particular, isn't inherently more restrictive than Smogon singles; some mons are more viable in singles and vice-versa. So, on one hand, bringing all 6 mons to a battle means each one is not as critical, allowing more specialisation in roles; on the other hand, choosing 4 out of 6 allows to use mons with specific matchup problems. And while you don't see purely stall mons (unless cheesing the chess clock becomes a thing) or glass cannons in dubs (Weavile aside, and maybe also Greninja in elo hell), doubles inherently has more roles a mon can play, simply due to there being more elements involved on the board. That's why hybrid mons are a thing; bringing only 4 mons does force one to compress roles efficiently, but in theory it also allows for greater variance between mons who can do several things.

>>29415099
DELET THIS

>>29417954
So like, did every VGC player ever just forget that Groudon can hit bronzong with ground type moves after gravity is set up?

>>29418047
That doesn't matter when you've set up Trick Room and your Groudon KOs the other Groudon first

>>29417788
>ban 3 Pkmn
Would be cool, because you'd have to use back ups. Otherwise it kinda dictates to ban certain Pkmn, which could also be achieved by using actual tiers (like no legies and stuff).

>ban 5 items
Meh, the pool of actual competitevely usable items is small anyway imagine 10 items banned, those would be choice items, eviolite, lefties, LO, citrus and lum. Of course some megastones, which would be kinda dictative too, as certain pkmn are not viable without them. But maybe we would be surprised by a new elemental plate meta, who knows.

All assuming each competitor gets to ban 3/5 in some kind of draft.

>>29418047
Bronzong can survive either Earth Power or (spread) Precicpice Blades. It has enough turns to do what it needs to

>>29415098
If I wanted to watch legends fight, I would watch two 12 year olds that finished the story and then did a wifi battle.

At least the guy that didn't time stall his way to the final won the match.

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Smogon's meta will always be healthier than anything official.

The "same team every time" meme is just a meme. There's a fuck ton of diversity in OU.

>>29418047
With its bulk, it won't die to one attack from Groudon, not to mention that, sometimes, once it sets up Gravity you don't need it anymore.

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>>29418126
Usage in the Masters Division of this year's VGC for anyone about to bitch that that image is outdated.

>>29418126
There's nothing healthy about Stealth Rock and stall being easy mode

What official rules sometimes lack in Pokemon variety they make up in actual strategic variety. 6v6 plays methodically and boring.

>>29418187
>whining about Stealth Rock
Oh boy here we go.

I hope you're aware that literally two teams in Masters were identical. Movesets, abilities, natures. That's a testament to how much strategic variety there is in VGC.

Speaking as someone who became interested in VGC after years of singles, the number of people talking out of their asses here is nearly Youtube-tier.

>>29418205
Who gives a fuck about 2016 meta? Everyone knows it sucked and it's over now. One year of VGC doesn't represent official rules as a whole.

>>29418231
>>29418126

>>29418205
Three teams in Worlds top 8, actually, and that's because the three who used them (Glick, Stadter, Akcoş) built them together. Worlds top cut was actually pretty diverse, not much behind VGC 14', which casuals don't know was mostly dominated by mega mum. And don't get me started about the Pachirisu.

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If you want to make a real judgement about diversity in VGC

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i've played a lot of smogon ou and when it comes to diversity, i think smogon is better
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-09/ou-1825.txt

>>29418205
Whether you like it or not, having to waste a move slot for shit like Defog and Rapid Spin JUST for entry hazards is NOT healthy in any way, as they're completely useless outside of that.

>>29418586
By your logic having to use a ghost type alongside tyranitar to switch into close combats makes fighting types broken.

>Some Pokemon need support to work adequately
Wow, amazing concept.

>>29418586
Whether you like it or not, a meta WITHOUT Stealth Rock is worse than a meta WITH Stealth Rock.

>>29418614
Not really? One thing is an entry hazzard that stays on the field until you remove it and damages your Pokemon on the switch without you having to do anythihng, and another is a move you use with your Pokemon that uses a turn.

>>29418617
>actually believing this
Holy shit

which gens had the best and worst meta?

They need to make a Karenfag tournament wheres theres no reward for winning so the whole thing would just encourage using your bros and anybody who does otherwise would get laughed out of the building

>>29418664
Mate, people have literally PLAYED it.
There has been a stealth rock-less ladder before and it was fucking awful. It was stupidly unfun.

>>29417376

i dunno, for Dota. it's no more worse than competitive pokemon

in theory, it's one of the world's greatest e-sport game, but in practice it's Human Cesspool: The Game.

>>29419347
my bro is landorus-T

>>29415152
Vivian is cute! CUTE!

>>29415152
Why is Vivian so cute?

>>29415098
delet this

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yeah, shit has turned sour. what we have to settle for in diversity is the speed and special attack we run on cresselia and miscellaneous bulk on pdon and xerneas to survive various attacks

i do have to say its changed a lot compared to 2010 where you'd probably run into some kyogre/ludicolo dork but i cant tell you if its for better or worse

>>29419362
Is this from gen 5? Because I actually did play that ladder and no it wasn't awful. It adds nothing except force you to use a move on every team, fucks up certain types and effectively makes all health <100% by default

I mean, have you played anything besides Smogon 6v6? It's much better having a meta not influenced so much by one move

>>29415625
So basically Aegislash and Bisharp spam with double intimidate and rain teams...

Dude you are retarded.

>>29417285
Megas are actually very healthy in singles, they offer a good layer of cost effectiveness.

>>29415098
I hate VGC doubles. Every time I try to play battle spot doubles I have to take in a mon just to counter PGroudon just because every team I fight against uses one

>>29418187
Stall being easy mode, complains about hazards when they are the best tool to destroy stall.

You are just terrible at team building, hazards fuck you because you can't keep the offensive pressure and you are forced to switch out, stall requires a lot of knowledge to actually use effectively in a metagame where stall teams crumble to at least 22 different wallbreakers.

Seriously, anon stall is shit if you have a dedicated wallbreaker.

>>29420080
Its gotten to the point that I just fucking forfeit the round if my opponent leads with a Primal.

I'd rather just deprive them of the fun of playing than giving them the satisfaction of using it, and honestly they get the win anyway so its fair. I'm using a hail team so its not like i wasnt fucked anyway.

This is why I'm a Karenfag

>>29420080
Groudon isn't even legal in battle spot doubles, play ranked, not free

>>29416137
Half a team being the same is still kind of sad, you know

>literally chad vs nerd

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>Don't allow Darkrai
>Allow Dark Void Smeargle

People here are acting like chess doesn't equip both players with the exact same teams.

The thing is that pokemon was never designed to be balanced so no matter what you change people will always end up with similar teams

>>29417450
>unless you seriously expect GameFreak to release constant balance patches
Why shouldn't they? I know they won't, but if they would, I wouldn't mind.

>>29420321
Chess isn't as shallow as pokemon. Chess isnt marketed for having a large diverse set of customizable pieces. People play chess and pokemon for two very, very different reasons.

>>29420327
Because its a waste of resources when the primary demographic barely understands stats and runs 4 stab moves on their pokemon

>>29420408
On what level? Pokemon is a bit like poker in that it is designed to be played competitively over multiple rounds in order to mitigate the effect of hax, only you have a selection of pieces which also need to do well over many matches.

>>29420409
Nor does the secondary demographic, judging by this board (now more than a few years ago 2bh)

>>29420274
>nerd thinks he's won, starts egging on the crowd
>chad comes back and destroys him

lmao

Chase is not a name

>>29418126
>Clefairy
What in the devil

>>29420282
you're right, a 250 BST doge is basically the same thing as a legendary

>>29416154
THANK YOU GENIES
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-463473805

SMOGON DID NOTHING WRONG.

It's not perfect, but it's far better than the abomination called VGC.
At least they try to give a place for the weaker Pokemon to play.
They actually try to balance on a case by case basis instead of just blanket banning mythicals and sometimes mascot legendaries and calling it a day.
On a more subjective note it's also not nearly as associated with cancerous youtube e-celebs as VGC.

>camera zooms out to show all pokemon on the field
>game starts lagging

game freak are a joke

>>29420033
>Megas are actually very healthy in singles
Hell no

All they did is to increase the average BST of the mons used

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>>29417432
The official tourney allows unbalanced pokemon so yes it proves quite a bit about the official meta.

>>29418271
>Genies was the beginning of the downfall.

Gen 4 was the best for competitive confirmed.

>>29418271
>that pachirisu
wat

>>29421004
>He wasn't there when it happened.

>>29418271
So what happened in 2010, exactly? Before that, the top contenders have distinct enough teams, yet in 2010, suddenly everyone (aside from 2) are running a Groudon, half the teams have a Dialga, most have a Kyogre, and almost all the teams have either an Abomasnow or a Ludicolo. What happened there?

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>>29421004
>He doesn't know the infamous Sejun Park's Pachirisu

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>>29418271
:^)

>>29421059
Usual third year rule: All Pokémon but mythicals are allowed.

>>29421059
Groudon kyogre etc were not allowed any of the other years. 2016 is the first time since 2010 they were allowed.

>>29420825
Has better bulk than Clefable with Eviolite, and enjoys having both Friend Guard and Follow Me.

>>29421144
>>29421147
Is that so? By looking at this, you'd think anyone could see that allowing those pokemon is a bad idea, yet they continue to do it. Ban the genies while you are at it.

>>29419347
And it'll get a shit ton of people saying "no! landorus/rotom/garchomp/-insert any overused mon here- can't be your bro! it has to be a unusable shitmon!!".

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>>29418271
So 2015 was the year of the Genies of healthy Meta eh?

>>29420080
>>29420172
Your fucking fault for playing shitty free battles.

>>29421231
yes, and it's a shame it ended like that because the first few months of the meta were full of creative teams and new strategies.

>>29421233
But I don't normally like playing ranked gamemodes. The "free" versions should have the same rules as ranked so you can at least use it as practice

>>29421288
That's Japan for you. But yeah, I agree. I even remember going to an event and someone won it with a Shiftry Ninetales core. It was really damn fun to see and play against.

>>29421304
>i'm a pussy who is afraid of dealing with a short e-peen
dude, the ladders reset every two/three months anyway, you can easily take a beating and come back stronger. If there is something to lose or gain you'll also be more motivated to win against equally motivated players, and you will improve much faster
Man up and git gud.

>>29421314
This is why I'm looking forward to the first few months if sun/moon even if vgc 17 is shit in the end

>>29421343
It's not even a matter of being a pussy or getting good, but I just don't like ranked modes. I've played it before and done well, but I'm just saying that the free mode shouldn't be full of cancer either

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>>29420887
Guess why.

>>29419347
>Groudon is one of my favourite Pokemon
Get fucked, special snowflake.

>>29421389
Why? Because it sure seems like you lose a lot and don't like seeing your rating going down. There is literally nothing wrong with ranked.

>>29421452
Gotta admire GF for making high polygon models to use for many future generations. But holy shit the 3DS can't handle that shit

>>29421486
I just don't care for ranked because it's taken a bit more seriously. I like to test out new teams on free, but then I run into P-Groudon or something and don't get to properly test how something works. I don't care much about losing, but it's just annoying to see the same annoying few mons on what should be the more carefree gamemode

>>29421495
>high poly
>flat textures
Which is the exact opposite of what they should have done:
>low(er) poly
>textures made to give the illusion of depth/detail

But hey, they got to cut corners so it was worth it :^)
Never mind that they get slammed every game now for running like trash.

>>29421452
That's a lot of polygons

>>29421561
At least games on the Switch will run somewhat decently

>>29421591
Oh, you can be sure that GF will find a way to make the games run bad, even on the Switch.

>>29421541
Dude, free battles have their own metagame, don't complain about them using Pokémon allowed there, it's your own fault as a player for not preparing for that specific metagame.

>>29420901
You are stupid, Megas gave a cost effectiveness tool to implement, some change roles, some Excell at one, others support a win con.

Megas as a tool for team building added a new layer of complexity to build around and that was good.

You are probably one of those idiots that think Articuno should be banned...

>>29421924
This. Megas aren't that broken. A few have issues like Megamom, but those are still managable.

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>>29415098
>there are people that will actually defend VGC while trashing Smogon

Honest question, if you think smogon's tiering policy/banlist is retarded, can you come up with something better? By smogon tiering policy I mean both the standard suspect testing (suspect by theorymon then ban by community laddering testing) and the one used for XY UU (ban by committee theorymon and unban by committee suspect testing).

>>29415098
VGC is a healthy meta where you're free to use your favourite pokemon unlike Smogon, and with Groudon being such a popular pokemon it's only expected it would be used as a lot of people's bros

>>29422827
>use a pokemon that isn't groudon
>lose
great meta!

>>29422827
so your definition of a healthy meta is a meta where people are allowed to use whatever they want?

>>29422847
>use a (restricted) pokemon that isn't groudon with two underdogs
>win the world championships

>>29422669
Ban legendaries and pseudos

>>29420866
>argue in favor of megas by saying that base stats aren't everything
>then argue against Darkrai/Smeargle by saying that base stats are everything

>>29423195
That doesn't solve the problems of Megas and Pokemon like Aegislash and Greninja.

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>>29415098
>>29415099
>>29416154
>>29416797

>Let's take a screenshot with the "same" pokemon on both side on the field and say this is VGC.

Even if the two sides are using the same pokemon, people on VGC run different EV spreads on their pokemons, that way they work different from each other.

Also, the girl on >>29415099 was running slowbro and venusaur.

>>29423140
>two underdogs
What do you mean?
Everything pokemon on that team was well known and viable, all of them have had high placements in the nationals and even used by others (not even the people using the same team) in cut at worlds

>>29423245
Ban legendaries, pseudos and megas

>>29423248
To add to top8, every team used in day two of the tournament:
http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry/2003-teams-from-the-2016-pok%C3%A9mon-world-championships/

>>29423271
Not many people ran Raichu, and pretty much no one ran Hitmontop with good success in the entire season.

>>29423272
That doesn't solve the problems of Aegislash and Greninja.
There's also tons of other legendaries, pseudos, and megas that aren't worth banning. Articuno, Goodra, and Mega Audino don't deserve to be banned just because Xerneas, Garchomp, and Mega Blaziken are so strong. This mentality is even worse than Smogon's, yet you'll still complain about how Smogon just wants to ban everything from competitive play.

>>29423337
Top had 2 T32s at UK Nats, 2nd place at Italy Nats and a T32 at US Nats (this one was even Eject Button)
Also 9 Raichu in Euro and US National top cuts
Both were around and known

What is it these genies do that makes them so nasty?
I've only seen a handful on battle spot doubles and they usually weren't too hard to take out.

>>29422827
Now use my bro Dustox on VGC, I'm sorry but that's just not how VGC works, they won't even let me use Manaphy because of an arbitrary ban.

>lando-t has been by far the most used thing in smogon ou for a very long time
>it can run a ton of sets from assault vest to choice scarf to double dance
>it can work in hyper offense, it can work in weather, it can work in stall
>still isn't banned
>meanwhile mega mawile gets banned

>>29423672
prankster thunderwave combined with good typing and offensive stats
lando just works in any team you put it in
torn-t only really works in singles since its incarnate doesn't really get anything to abuse prankster with and it has good mixed stats combined with being sanic fast and a decent movepool but not the greatest for doubles

>>29423774
Landorus T is a glue mon, it doesn't break cores by itself, if anything he is used because there are too many good physical win cons, thus making Landorus T a good pivot and 1 time check.

Landorus T doesn't deserve a ban in singles, he is just good at being useful for team building but he isn't a must and he isn't a win con unless the other player can't team build for shit.

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>>29423248
Differing EV spreads aside, You still cant ignore that three of those teams use the exact same mons, seven of those teams use a Bronzong, and most if not all of them have mons in common.

>>29423848
Wolfe, Markus, and Baris built the team together. The remaining pokemon was part of the meta.

>>29423820
Can't we just make something like a "Genieclause", preventing you from running more than one genie in a team? That could help, I dunno.

>>29423248
>Girl

>>29423248
I found funny how people were praising Wolfe's team as a bastion of originality and then 1 month later seeing people bitching about how unoriginal it was because people had started to use variations of it everywhere. People won't be pleased ever no matter what.

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>>29415098
Let me help OP

>>29423774
>av lando-t
>lando-t on weather
>lando-t on stall
>comparing it to mega mawile

anon...

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>>29415098
>>29415099
RANT START
This shit is why I can't get into big league competitive gaming. In Locals and on showdown I often see people put a lot their personality in their team and play style. My teams generally revolve around power move gimmick, my friend likes using under rated mons, and heck there was that guy who won the finals with a Pachirisu. I really hate how game metas force a player to sell their personality and soul just for a chance at winning. Its especially rampant in pokemon (Pic related). But, I'll regress. I'm not trying to shit on these players for going with the most optimal team, I don't blame them, however competitions are really boring to watch when everybody is the same.
RANT END

>>29423820
I'm pretty sure something gets moved up a tier if it's in over 50% of the matches in high elo.
It's current usage in high elo teams is 36.99% which equates to 50.1% of games.
It's usage in high elo games in the 2 months before last was up around 36% too, not quite 50% of games but pretty damn close.

>>29418640
>Entry Hazards stay on the field
Which is why having Defog isn't a waste.

>>29420825
Bulky with eviolite.
Has follow me.
Has friend guard.

>>29415109
Remove genies
Follow all other suggestions
Reddi- I mean /vp/ is always right

>>29415109
REEEMOVE GENIES
REEEMOVE SCALD

>>29424779
>and heck there was that guy who won the finals with a Pachirisu
I hate people like you who act like if Sejun used Pachirisu because it was his bro.

Sejun used Pachirisu because it was a extremely limited format where Pachirisu was the only Follow Me user besides Lucario, on a metagame where the only redirector was Amoongus so everyone had something to counter it on their teams and last but not least because Pachirisu covered Gyarados and Talonflame weaknesses perfectly with Volt Absorb. He used Pachirisu because it was something that complemented his team well, because when he looked at his nearly finished team and looked at the possible options to fill the hole he noticed Pachirisu filled it best, that's how to properly teambuild and that's how you properly use shitmons, not for the sake of using them, but because there's a special hole you can tell only they would be able to fill one way or another.

> I really hate how game metas force a player to sell their personality and soul just for a chance at winning
Blame Gamefreak and TCPi for creating shit formats, not the players. And no one is selling their soul, people who give half a shit about competitive know what it is about and just deal with it instead of whining about how their bro Ledian is not viable.

>But, I'll regress. I'm not trying to shit on these players for going with the most optimal team, I don't blame them,
You are better than 90% of people because you at least realize that. Good for you.

>however competitions are really boring to watch when everybody is the same.
Pokemon is a really shit spectator "esport", specially for the people who don't give a shit about competitive and only want to see their favorite shitmon on screen.

>>29424779
>heck there was that guy who won the finals with a Pachirisu
casual shitter detected

Force you to compete with a randomly generated team

>VGCfags insist that doubles is the only way to play Pokemon
>but plenty of things are completely and absolutely unusable in doubles
>>29424904
It's not like Landorus would move up a tier if its usage ever got past 50%, since there's no tier above OU (Ubers is a banlist). Unless they create an Alwas Used tier.

>>29415787
I dont understand how anyone can take competitive Pokemon seriously when RNG is a thing.

Imagine if in soccer, some goals were worth double points for absolutely no reason. That's what critical hits are.

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>all these Smogonsheep who can't think for themselves and try to brainwash others to follow their cult's rules

>>29425126
VGCfags are massive hypocrites.

This is nothing new, and I say it as someone who prefers Doubles over Singles. The thing I hate the most about VGCfags is their NuggetBridge cliche circlejerk.

>>29425161
Just like if players slipped, couldn't hit a decent kick and missed extremely close shots, or got refballed on extremely difficult calls.
No RNG at all.

>>29424904
Nope, for something to move to OU they need a %, the % of being seen at least once every 20 matches if I recall.

But OU is the end of usage based play. Ubers is non usage based play and a banlist, there is nowhere to go vy usage for Landorus T or Latios, they aren't broken nor restrictive to team building, they aren't a must on every team nor force other Pokémon out of the metagame.

There is no use, reason nor technical niche to ban Landorus T.

>>29424779
Pachirisu had a niche, if anything Clefairy/amoongus would have done that role better but on the team building part this guy chooses Pachirisu to cover a Zapdos/Tflame weakness.

It was a sensible choice, and to be honest, Pachirisu was only pivotal on two matches, the rest where carried hard by Gothitrap, Gothitrap by itself forced a lot of terrible plays just by being a possibility on team preview.

>>29424004
Why would you do that, the 3 play differently.

Tornadus T is a pivot/wallbreaker.

Landorus T is mostly played as a pivot with access to strong eq and intimidate.

Thundurus T is a wincon.

Thundurus I is a full stop vs some offense archetypes and can be played as a wallbreaker.

Their roles are different enough for people to want them in their teams, why would you randomly go and ban perfectly fine Pokémon by themselves just for something as stupid as ingame status?

>>29425168
its kind of funny watching vgcfags butt heads with everyone else, i dont know

im a doubles ubersfag myself which is like the worst qualities of both sides rolled into one

>>29425342
>why would you randomly go and ban perfectly fine Pokémon by themselves just for something as stupid as ingame status?
Baaaaw muh bro baaaaaw

>>29425163
You mean people that don't judge a Pokémon by ingame standards and ban phione?

Yeah, it's not like we gave stuff like Probopass an actual niche in a tier instead of having to deal with the same shit over and over in doubles...

>>29425364
Go and ban phione in VGC, VGC fag.

And actually I'm blessed by the fact that my Bro slowbro has been good in all the generations.

>>29415098
Oh no, that lizard's got to go.

>>29416154
THANK YOU GENIES!

>>29415098
THE HEATED BATTLE CONTINUES

>>29425246
>Ubers is non usage based play and a banlist
I recall ubers becoming an actual tier when fug was banned from it.

What bothers me is how each new game introduces a new mon with a higher BST than the last. A 780 BST mon is absolutely insane because it excels in every stat and we have 3 of them.