Pokemon that we wish didn't suck

>>29407596
>Breloom
Boy, you just ain't using him correctly.

>Didn't suck
>Start the thread with Spore Sub Focus Punch Bullet Seed: Gen IV The Meta

Try again, OP.

>>29407596
But anon, that Pokemon doesn't suck.

>>29407596
very subtle bait, i like it

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I wish floatzel wasn't such fucking glass..and got something aside from damn water veil

>>29407596
>it's another "op has no idea what he's talking about" episode.

>>29407655
Each time I look at my Platinum catridge I get flashbacks.

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>>29407596
Good meme.

Actual answer though. Even in NU he sucks.

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100% bro tier.

He had such potential. 11/10 design, great typing, great attack. It's speed just sucks though, and it's defence isn't great enough to compensate.

>>29407739
>>29407768
How would you even fix him?
Shadow Sneak?
Actual defense, considering he's a big ass robot man, how the fuck can he be not a tank?

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>>29407739
>>29407768

>>29407820
>slow, frail mixed attacker

why is hoenn so full of these

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>>29407739
>>29407768
It needs a better physical ghost type attack, Shadow Punch's damage is underwhelming even with Iron Fist, and Phantom Force isn't as reliable while its invincibility is removed thanks to No Guard.

Pic related needs something to not get cucked by Mega/Swampert, it doesn't even get waterfall

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>>29407900
>give him autimize
>give him a not shitty ability
>give him a new physical ghost move with at least equal power to shadow ball
>buff its mediocre defenses
Some ideas I had.

Ghost/ground is a pretty weird typing in that although it has three resists (normal, fighting, electric) it also leaves you with common weaknesses like water, grass, ice, dark, and ghost.

>>29408016
If this guy had a better movepool he would be ptetty solid. It already has good stats and typing.

>>29407984
it already has rock polish, unless you're specifically afraid of grass knot.

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I wish Mienshao wasn't a glass cannon. I love it's design.

ALL ICE TYPES BESIDES WEAVILE

>>29408016
But he is amazing.

>>29407938
Because Hoenn was the worst.

>>29407718
you're not alone comrade

>>29407666
subtle?

>>29407984
No Guard is a fine ability, he just needs more moves to abuse it with

>>29408679
Meinfoo is really good in little cup if your in to battle sims

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All of these guys could use some kind of help.
But this one especially is my fav of all the starting normal dudes.

>>29407938
Seviper, Shiftry, Camerupt, Crawdaunt, Castform, Cacturne, Exploud.
>All have 10/10 designs, with 3/10 competitive value

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>>29411108
>Seviper sucks
Good

>>29408679
Why tho. Just use Life Orb+Regenerator with U-Turn and you will be fine.

>>29411108
Crawdaunt doesn't actually suck.

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>>29411108
It's not fair

>>29407820
It really needs a buff, evo, or mega to make it good.

>>29411191
True, HA saves the day again

>>29411108
Meanwhile shit like Rotom-W and Clefable are top tier threats with shit designs

>>29408694
At least he has a guaranteed buff this gen with water shuriken becoming special.

>>29411385
>Clefable
>shit design
Explain

>>29407739
>>29407768
you niggers are retarded. with one rock polish he can sweep ou with no guard dynamic punch

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>>29407596
I wish pic related didn't suck as much, she's such a qt I can't resist having her on my team

>>29411468
Literally big clefairy, weird charlie brown eyes, pikachu ears, and it's just not interesting in any way.

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>>29407596
>tfw nearly all my favorite pokemon are PU shitmons

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It's been my favourite since Red and Blue, and it still holds as one of the best designs Game Freak has ever come up with, but... it's absolutely terrible in battle.

>>29411569
same

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>>29411617
>Favorite fully evolved bug types.
>Will never get any love ever.

>>29408665

He gets Moody though, so he can technically on the same level of power as Mega Fug according to Smogon.

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>>29411468
Mfw when a Neopet reject could become a top-tier OU.

>>29407596
b8

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SAMUROTT

>a fucking samurai
>largely physical movepool
>higher base special atk stat than atk

>shit HA

>no sacred sword

>no fighting secondary type

>>29411554
How is he gonna get the chance to set up? He's not nearly threatening enough to force a switch, and he's too slow beforehand.

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There are so many good doggo mons, but no good catmons.

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This little bitch right here. She's so CUTE.

>>29412020
Surely there is one good cat.

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>>29412209

>>29412209
No, they're all shit. There's Meowth, Persian, Skitty, Delcatty, Purrloin, Liepard, Glameow and Purrugly. No one ever uses them.

>>29407955
But seismitoad sees more high level usage than swamp and gastro

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Where's my kamen rider mega?

>>29411108
Crawdaunt and exploud are good tho

>>29408060
literally the only move it's missing is Gyro Ball, then it MIGHT be able to compete with scizor

>>29412209
>>29412341
>>29412020
Mewtwo

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mega when

>>29408694
sash lead with spikes and final gambit is cool
also as another anon said water shuriken is now special, i used to run endure+weakness policy+unburden with shuriken to bait in and kill talonflame but its atk was too low

>>29408679
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 200-238 (59.8 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 260-307 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>>29408016
escavalier is amazing, it's just that scizor can do absolutely everything it does but better

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>>29408694
>>29408016
>>29407820
>>29411617
Some favorites of mine there as well.

Rapidash needs to be fire/fairy. It's a damn unicorn.

>>29412486
It should've had a pegasus alola form

>>29412319
I'm calling the ATF.

>>29412341
fuk u kid im gonna use nothing but cats this gen, just you weight

>>29412341
Liten line looks promising

>>29411683
Still mad we didn't get Bug/Electric & Bug/Fairy mega evolutions for them in ORAS

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>>29412020
Bestest cat dog

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>tfw its 10 base speed from being 350 max
>it has 2x the physical movepool with only base 84 Attack
>Only gets 4 non-fire special moves

>>29412366
Back in Silver I tried using it on my team. It was so fucking awful I could do it unless I spent hours grinding. I boxed it shortly before the E4.
Ariados suffered from similar problems, but I managed to make it through gold using one. But boy was it rough at times.

>>29412631
desu eruption+fire blast+focus blast+hidden power is all it needs

Shiftry, Cacturne, Shedinja, Articuno and Torkoal
I just realized how much I love Gen 3.
I also wish Weavile didn't exist, Sneasel is so much cooler.

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I'm asking too much, I know.

>>29412366
>>29412678
i actually got a ledyba on like the third route of an XY nuzlocke and it lasted through the e4, though that was probably because it could stall so well from the get go with roost, infestation, protect and lefties

>>29411606
But it has cool wings and tail, and is a moon alien with retconned connection with Gengar.

>>29407955
>Whining that a legitimately good pokemon that sees more usage than swampert in ou isn't good enough

I wouldn't mind if they buffed him more either desu.

>>29412650
Running fire miss and focus miss, I wish it didn't have to come to this

>all these OU shitters complaining about Pokemon that are great in their respective tiers

>>29413315
Furret isn't great anywhere.

Well okay he's one of the better route 1 "rodent" pals but Me First isn't so great when that offense is shit

>>29412341
>Liepard

Are you seriously forgetting about Spookie Boogie or are you just that new?

>>29413315
I love using RU and under against OU noobs, just to see that subtle sodium chloride formation

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>entire purpose is to use one move once at the very start of battle
I love still it.

>>29413420
I used him in double battles with my bro and he did pretty well for that support role. Just had to deal with him be the slowest ever.

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Now where should I start?

It should have been a special attack Garchomp.

>>29407938

There's way too many of them in general. If they had Clefable tier movepools it'd be justified, but they don't.

>>29412643
Ariados at least has decent attack, base 90. Not the best, but good enough to get you through the game. Ledian has WORSE attack that fucking Spinarak and is only bulky in a stat no one cares about, Special D,

>>29413420
better than a lot of those g2 single stagers.

>>29407938
Because they split special into SA and SD, but didn't do the proper Physical/ special split until gen 4. None of hoenn is min/maxed properly as a result. Most of Sinnoh, too, for that matter.

/vp/ doesn't know shit about competitive

>>29413488
He's king of RU and hard checks primal Groudon while being a decent defogger in uber tier.
He's fine, comparing him to Garchomp is like comparing Pewdiepie with Barack Obama.

>>29413420
Using power split and contrary shell smash is the way to go.

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Wish this guy could have got a mega or an alolan. Even though he isn't genwun you know his alolan would have been great, he could have a tiki mask or something. It's also annoying that a pokemon that's irritating to get in the games (you have to use up a king's rock which isn't a common item) is kind of shit, even though he's basically the best buddy pokemon possible

>>29408679
Just freaking use lo reckless man, destroy worlds!

>>29407820

Give it sand rush. Would use.

>>29412209
Luchalitten

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it dies a bit easy tbqh.
later levels were a bit easier. had one in SoulSilver and everstoned it because fuck how ugly Lickylicky is.

>>29407768
Don't forget the vast special oriented movepool with its awful SpA.

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Pic related.
The eviolite set with Swords Dance is a good option, but it still remains pretty weak.

>>29412392
Its better then typhlosion

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>>29412209

>>29413315
Lol, I wish Typhlosion was good in its tier. Too bad every other fire starter and majority of other fire types beat it in usability

>>29414918
that's a dog

>>29408713
And Mamoswine.

>>29412209
LandoT

>>29414070

Slowking is good, dumbfuck.

>>29412677
Sneasel can't even benefit from eviolite, since he's so frail

>>29412650
>Focus Blast
>Hidden Power
No Pokemon should have to resort to these shit moves.

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>team preview
>just shy of high enough sp.atk to secure many OHKOs
so close, yet so far

>>29415982

Thundurus-T

Volt Switch
Thunder Bolt
HP Ice
Focus Blast

>shit

>>29416809
Thundurus-T is an amazing mon, that doesn't actually stop the moves themselves being shit

Focus Miss is literally only used because there is no reliable option (well, Aura Sphere but its distribution is horrendous) - literally everything that can use Thunder and Blizzard opts for Tbolt and Ice Beam unless they're abusing weather

HP is a shitty mechanic that's incredibly time consuming to breed for - and all that for a fucking 60BP move

>>29416924

>breeding

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>>29407655
>bullet seed in Gen 4

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>>29412392
It does not.

Every pure rock type
>EVERY
>SINGLE
>ONE

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I hurt myself today...
To see if I still feel

>>29407955
Iron Fist just needs to be better in general. 1.2x power for a very, very small amount of moves. Compared to tough claws which is everything iron fist is plus more for 1.33x power.

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>>29416014
This. Also pic related

>>29407596
Breloom is OU nigger

>>29416981
>no 100% accurate rock move with usable damage
>no usable special rock moves on things that might actually want them

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>>29417331
Barely. It's been in the "please don't have talonflame" area for quite a while. It'll probably drop within the next tier shift or two. I don't know how gen7 will treat it.

>>29417389
tflame ain't the main problem, loom is actually decent tflame bait because it can catch it with rock tomb on the switch

the spore nerf and the rise of a shitload of grass types to ou hurt it much more, every other grass type in ou can switch in on it 100% free and do whatever

>>29417458
>using talonflame as a counter
talonflame is one of the worst counters in the game
it's also one of the best checks in the game
rock tomb also has 5% chance to miss 100% of the time

>>29412366
Call me crazy, but Ledian seems like a better candidate for Huge Power than Azumarill. I don't see why a rabbit would randomly get that ability, but a Pokemon with multiple arms and alot of punching moves. It just clicks with me.

>>29412599
My man

>>29417304
This right here.

>>29417304
>tfw you recognize the artist immediately
I'm ashamed on my own degeneracy

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love the design and i still use it even though its not that great.
not as bad as Zangoose tho

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>>29411385
>Rotom-W
>shit design

>>29414939
That's a Saber-Tooth Tiger sir

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He's not garbage, but he's not nearly as versatile as he needs to be to be reliable. He's not likely to do well on a team that's not totally build around him doing his job. Which would be fine if he was a good core. He has two very damaging and common weaknesses and often needs at least one turn of set up for every one of his sets.

I still use him whenever I can, though. At the very least, no one ever expects a Scarfed Scrafty.

>>29412392
Just give it an actual special movepool, its options are pathetic considering its a fucking witch. Energy ball would be neat, it also should have gotten magic bounce or something as a HA

>>29417862
Shut your whore mouth.

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>>29407596
>Iron Fist
>No Bullet Punch and Mach Punch
>Dark Type
>No Sucker Punch

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>>29418151
At least you don't have to sift through copious amounts of vorefaggotry just to find some decent art

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Bug-type in general, honestly.

>Gen V gives Bug huge buffs simply by introducing fucking awesome Bugs for a change
>Gen VI shows up and introduces Fairy-type
>Fairy, on top of instantly becoming one of the best and most common types, resist Bug for some reason
>Bug goes back to being unreliable and unused if it's not paired with Steel or Poison

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>>29417862
>he doesnt know about the Toxic Boost Facade Zangoose
Never change, Seviperfriends

>>29418115
I forgot how good Scrafty's deep colours look together. Why is the colour in the 3D games so washed out?

>>29411438

Probably would be UU at best but the ability to break through sturdy and focus sash as well as beating common rock and ground type leads would be pretty cool.

>>29417862
>zangoose
>bad
Pick one

>>29417611
it's a japanese pun, that's the only reason rabbits have it.

>>29418400
*slithers behind you*
*learns every fucking TM*
nothing personelle

>>29418748
What do you mean? What's the pun?

>>29418834
It's really dumb.
Basically.
Huge power is Muscleman in japanese.
Muscleman kind of sounds like mochi hammering in japanese.
Japs have a legend about rabbits hammering mochi on the moon.

>>29407938
Because back then they didn't min max pokemons and gave them 100+ spe

>>29412504
>Pegasus Rapidash
I like it

>>29417304
We can hope Oranguru will become the first decent normal/psychic at least

>>29418827
*zangoose used detect*
*zangoose is protected*
*zangoose is poisoned from toxic orb*
*zangoose used facade*
*seviper fainted*
Psh

>>29418852
Wow. That's pretty dumb.

>>29418963
252+ SpA Seviper Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zangoose: 294-346 (102.4 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also scarf, get fucked, furry

>>29418852
I can imagine Masuda with a stupid grin in his face while being proud of this shitty pun

>>29419011
>0 HP / 0 SpD
Kek nice try
Toxic Boost Zangoose doesnt need investment in Atk to sweep

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>>29419011
>>29418963
both of you stop fighting

>>29419067
yes it does

>>29419087
Said someone who never used Zangoose and run discount Ekans

>>29419108
not even the same anon

>>29417243
The only way to make that an even bigger FUCK YOU would be if they had bumped Low Sweep's BP to 61.
At least Breloom can use Rock Tomb now due to the move not being shit anymore. It still hurts though.

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I use a hyper offense team with Breloom and made it to elo 1800 with no problems. Breloom is a fucking beast, it rips through all sand teams (with a little bit of luring for Tang/Amoonguss), it destroys opposing offense after only one Swords Dance, outspeed pretty much all Stealth Rock setters and puts them to sleep, giving itself set up opportunities. Breloom's STAB is terrible on paper, but after 2 SDs even resists take a shitton of damage.

+4 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 229-269 (76.5 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Alakazam: 269-318 (107.1 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>29414126
>sand rush

why gf why, it could have been good

>>29419143
Also sash lead on battle spot is one of the best mons you could have.

why does aggron have base 110 attack, a huge ass metal dinosaur and breloom have 130 attack, a muchroom with tiny claws

>>29419205
Flower power, you fuckin goose

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>>29418115

>Mfw Fairy-type was announced.
>Mfw its type interactions other than Dragon were discovered.

>>29417389
dugtrio is OU soon?

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i just want it to have rapid spin honestly

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>dark/fighting
>iron fist and scrappy
>58 spe
>can't learn sucker punch
>can't learn mach punch
Pandas deserve to go extinct

>>29419380
I just want them to fix the 3d animation honestly

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>>29419244
>take two types that are notoriously frail but powerful
>instead of just nerfing their offense matchups, they also nerf their defense matchups
>makes them nearly useless when paired against a team with even one Fairy-type
>make Fairy only weak to Poison and Steel, two very rare types
>make the best Fairy-types part Steel so they resist and void their only weaknesses
>which causes less people to bring Poison and Steel-types
>which causes more people to bring pure Fairy-types
>which causes less people to bring Fighting-types and Dark-types
>collateral damage for nerfs on types that didn't need them such as >>29418367
>Dragon-types for the most part are unaffected because most of them learn Poison Jab, Iron Tail, or Earthquake

Why can't GF balance worth shit? I can't even comprehend what it takes to screw up this badly. The metagame was better off without Fairy.

I hope Fairy gets balanced in Gen VII. Its matchups need reworking. It should just resist Dark instead of both resisting and being Super Effective against it. Also it should stop resisting Bug.

>>29418367
Can't wait to try out Ribombee.
Probably gonna be disappointed though.

Whats all this talk of clefable being good? Someone post clefable movesets because mine fucking sucks

>>29419837
Stop playing 5th gen.

>>29419872
I only play ORAS and xy

>>29419837
Clefable @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off

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>>29419906
>focus sash

>>29419700
The big problem is the lack of splashable anti-fairy moves, like you said.

When they introduced Dark and Steel, dark became super common as Bite was changed to Dark type and most mons learned that in some manner.
Not to mention that Fighting type moves were exceptionally common as one was an HM that most every Pokemon could learn.

Unlike Steel and Poison moves now.
Which generally are locked into those types... all they'll really have to do is introduce Poison and/or Steel moves that are reliable and splashable and suddenly Fairy won't be the retarded powerhouse it is right now.

>>29419906
So a utility tank?

>Focus Sash
Maybe not?

Battlespot:
non-troll ones


Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled

Showdown:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off

>>29419937
Sash is always intact, thus rocks are almost guaranteed unless you get taunted, lures (and often kills) Excdarill, Bisharp and Scizor. Especially fun to set up rocks, drill comes in, rapid spins, and takes 98% from Fire Blast

>hurr this is niche and unviable the other sets are better

This is meant for hyper offense

>>29419906
>Focus Sash Clefable
Here's a better build
Clefable @ No item
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off

>>29419837
Is this nigga serious?

>>29419953
i use i as my lead. This clef wins most of my games in the first few turns. Things like Landorus get 2HKO by this.

Oh, with the sash, this is good ensurance against SD Scizor

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How can he escape BL hell?

>>29420035
becomes flying/fighting

>>29407667
>Implying Water Veil on a physical attacker isn't great

>>29420035
Gale wings

>>29407900
How about a physical ghost move that doesn't have such miserable base power

>>29420035
>inb4 he gets buffed, only for it to just ensure his stay in BL Purgatory from Gen 7's Power Creep

>>29411617
I use this on a Pseudo sun team and paired with Victreebell this thing destroys worlds with Chloro+SD

>>29418954
>Meloetta

I would've said Marowak, but maybe Alola flavor will actually be good.
3 immunities with lightning rod.
I wonder if thick club will still double his attack.

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JUST

>>29420116
I haven't noticed a power creep in Gen VII.

>>29420330
There's always a powercreep increase

>>29418115
Scrafty is pretty good in doubles as a support mon

I hate how useless Excadrill is. After dealing with the uselessness of Sandslash for so long I thought my prayers might be answered but they were not. My poor NU mole

>>29420378
Nah. There are shifts in what strategies are more useful, but there are always strategies to get around those. If there's anything totally insane like Mega Fug, they get banned pretty quickly, even from official tournaments.

>>29420612
Explain primals and megamoms

>>29420661
Aren't those ubers? Honestly, I don't pay attention to official tournaments as much as I do smaller ones. They tend to be boring.

But yeah, they're obviously going to make box legendaries powerful. I think that Mega Mom was just an anomaly as a result of GF's poor foresight.

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>>29407655
>not seed bomb

>>29417389
>I don't know how gen7 will treat it.
>Tapu Koko
I hope you're into yaoi because I see a BL in the future.

>>29420810
>>Tapu Koko
He's gonna be a VGC cancer, isn't he?

>>29421091
He's gonna be good no matter the format unless his stats and movepool are beyond shitty.
You can expect spore shenanigans to nearly vanish and without ensured sleep and with priority brave bird you can be sure Breloom won't be OU anymore.

>>29421127

Don't forget that priority is also getting fucked with this gen.

>>29420220
Sure lemme just go catch me a wild meloetta.

>>29421146
Oh yeah so that's mach punch Breloom getting fucked too.

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>>29421146

>Psychic/Fairy with legendary BST that auto-sets FUCK YOUR PRIORITY on switch-in.

All Fighting-types are moving down a tier.

>>29421220
Only Breloom and maybe Mega-Cham

>>29421146
Only the ugly fish and the stupid sexy plant so far though right? I doubt those are gonna be super fast, so it probably won't be a very big deal, at least in singles.

>>29421220
Le Mole of Balnced Meta Game Bait

Seriously though, was Excadrill just min maxed to never fall out of OU

>>29414924
I run it on my mono fire team. Choice specs eruption hits like a fucking truck

>>29421365
There's also Pink Koko who theoretically could auto set up that Psychic terrain which nullifies priority on the switch.

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Fucking why? Why couldn't they just let it be good?

>>29421705
Honestly, I think the idea of given a broken mon a high BST and a negative ability is a neat idea in theory, but for some reason they always go full retard

>Truant
>Slow Start
>Defeatist

why

>>29423525
They need to create a new hold item that negates the holder's ability, I hope they actually implement something like that so that mons like Slowking and Regigigas can be actually usable.

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The correct answer

Why does this thing have no moves?