So what do you think of HMs?

>>29385516
They were created to give the overworld "puzzles" and barriers. Thank fuck they're gone.

A poor implementation of a decent idea.

>>29385516
Poorly executed.
The concept of using a pokemon to help go across the game is great, but a move that can't be deleted is bad.
Should be something like: you delete the move, but your pokemon can still use the HM move outside battle.

>>29385516
Only done well in gen 1 where you had to actually "earn them" or gen 5 where they were optional (asides from one tree at the start of BW) but makes your life easier

>>29385711
>Only done well in gen 1
when we didn't have the move deleter?

>recently played through Diamond
>could only have 5 Pokemon in my party because I needed a dedicated HM slave
No thanks. Very happy they're gone.

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>>29385776
We don't talk about those times

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>>29385516
I like them. It makes the game more challenging by taking one spot on your team for an HM slave and/or a move slot from a couple of pokemon. Without HMs you could just pick 6 pokemon and beat the game without ever having to switch pokemon. There is some merit to that and if you only want to use the pokemon you want to use and not be handicapped by a slot being take away I understand why you would not like HMs.

It's also good for new players because it forces them to use certain pokemon to accomplish different tasks. It teaches them that it's nice to have your favorite pokemon but sometimes you need to use the pokemon that gets the job done no matter what. There are so many pokemon that I think it's a good lesson for new players to try out different ones.

Lastly... It's not a big deal. Amusing you absolutely hate HMs they are only a small part of the game. Get your HM slave, use it, and put it back. I understand but it's not the end of the world.

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>>29385516
They're literally just roadblocks to make sure the player doesn't explore too far without a certain number of badges. Carrying an HM slave is as "challenging" and "strategic" as carrying a key to open a door.
Starting at Gen 3, when they could no longer even pretend there was a hardware limitation, it would've been so much more practical to just give pokémon those out-of-battle functions depending on which HM moves they could learn, because YOU STILL NEED A CERTAIN NUMBER OF BADGES ANYWAY.

>>29386112
>challenging and strategic
nobody ever said that.

>>29386162
Literally said by >>29386004

>>29385516
HMs are a good concept, what's a really bad thing is how GF make the use of them in games. Every game should be like Gen V, where you only need cut in the early of the game to advance.

>>29386186
challenging could be, but he didn't say "strategic".
Also, your analogy is wrong, since you don't have to leave an item at home to carry a key.
They are more like items in Zelda series.

>>29386112
>They're literally just roadblocks to make sure the player doesn't explore too far without a certain number of badges. Carrying an HM slave is as "challenging" and "strategic" as carrying a key to open a door.
Better than put a guy in front of the path and don't even try to create a reason to him to be on it, like SM, right?

All they did was take away freedom and enjoyment

I think certain Pokemon should just inherently be able to overcome these obstacles after beating a specific gym or something.

I shouldn't have to teach Wailord how to swim for example. Just let me do it after I get a certain badge so I can't break the game or whatever they're trying to prevent.

>>29386334
I like this idea. It's better than "Hey, have this Tauros, you can mount him, but you can't even register him in the Pokédex".

>>29386004
>only a small part of the game

They were more necessary to always have in gen II and III. In gen I the only real must have HM's were Surf and Fly. Gen II and III had 3 damn water HMs. It was setting you up to either ruin your water pokemon with loads of HMs or wasting a couple of spaces on HM slaves.

>>29386247
>They are more like items in Zelda series.
And in almost every Zelda game, you don't have to leave an item at home to carry a hookshot or bombs. All your items fit in your inventory at the same time once you have them.

>>29385516
They should come back to give dungeons an extra layer of difficulty.
>gimp your mons
>gimp your team size
>make puzzles to actually block progress from obvious shitter tier levels
All I can see now are a shitton of dungeons similar to that Mewtwo dungeon in XY. A 'walk through and don't get lost' type of deal will be boring as shit and no one will like it.

>>29387156
>walk through and don't get lost' type of deal will be boring as shit and no one will like it.
you are aware it's possible to make puzzles that don't rely on HMs? hard concept to understand, i know, if pokemon is the only series you've ever played.

>>29386004
Its not the end of the world, but its a dumb feature that have no reason to be kept be in the games. For the first time ever, we can finally have all six pokemons slots for our team.

>>29387076
You leave them at your inventory.
And rocks block your path, so you need bombs, the same way you need TMs.

>>29386282
>Better than put a guy in front of the path and don't even try to create a reason to him to be on it, like SM, right?

Fuck no. At least the guy will not make me waste a pokemon slot through the entire game.

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>>29387220
You mean the sort of shit we get in Strange Journey?

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>>29387311
ok, since you like this

Was there a reason why we had to go to a move deleter instead of just replacing the move with another one instead?

Here's the underage >>29387683.

>>29387391
still better than retarded team gimping because "muh fake difficulty"

>>29387683
Made sure you couldn't get rid of them in a dungeon or something.
With Pokemon summons though, that risk is gone except for maybe save breaking glitches.
I think in Gen1 you could lose HMs or simply not dump them in your PC, so they had to make sure you couldn't lose them while going through a dungeon.

>>29387717
He's actually saying that GF made a mistake by not doing this since the start.

>>29385802
Victory road was a fucking chore

They were a lazy way to roadblock players to keep them from going off the beaten path.

However them finally being gone in SM does not make SM a good game, SM has far more grievous flaws

>>29387717
I wish I was a kid again. Thanks for the (you).

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>>29387737
>using terms like "retarded" or "muh" as an argument

>>29387744
I can see that. Thanks, anon.

>>29387821
explain then how HMs add difficulty by cutting down the amount of usable mons you have on your team when it is a proven fact that the easiest way to beat a pokemon game is by only using the starter and some shitmons

>>29387879
got offended, anon-kun?
It's not a difficulty, but it's better than a straight line game with no exploration.

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>>29387331
>Sector Eridanus, Pokemon Edition

Give it to me.

>>29387303
>You leave them at your inventory.
What are you trying to say here? Three or four button presses to assign an item to a button is not the same thing as walking to a town and moving your pokémon in and out of the PC.

>>29387917
>better than a straight line game with no exploration
>implying HMs add exploration that the Poké Ride system cannot

>>29388016
1. read the original post. "more like" isn't "totally the same"
2. read the post you replied to, but the part "And rocks block....."

>>29388057
>implying
really, show me where I implied anything about the Poké Ride system

>>29387917
>HMs
keep it, I don't want it.

>>29388268
okay.

>>29388114
You said:
>It's not a difficulty, but it's better than a straight line game with no exploration. [which is implied to be referring to SM, which uses the Poké Ride system in place of HMs]

>>29388343
>which is implied to be referring to SM
no, not at all.
I didn't played SM, I don't know if is a straight line or not.

>>29386282
The guy there is only there for the Demo. The area from the city to the trial is shortened in the Demo. It still is significantly better than HMs.

>>29388071
That's irrelevant to my point. HMs don't make the game more challenging, because "I see small thorn bush, I use Cut" is equivalent to "I see red door, I use red key", they don't require any thought.
All they do is inconvenience you. There's no reason to need BOTH the move AND the badge.
>but rocks block...
Are you telling me a Scyther with the moves Fury Cutter, X-Scissor, Air Slash and Night Slash is physically incapable of cutting a small thorn bush? Roadblocks have nothing to do with realism or common sense, they're JUST a game mechanic to prevent sequence breaking.
Read here: >>29386112
>it would've been so much more practical to just give pokémon those out-of-battle functions depending on which HM moves they could learn

>>29388841
okay, since we doing this...
>Are you telling me a Scyther with the moves Fury Cutter, X-Scissor, Air Slash and Night Slash is physically incapable of cutting a small thorn bush
Read this thread. The ideas of HMs are great, but poorly executed.
>but rocks block...
you're can't be that idiot (I guess). That was the comparation between the zelda series.
>badge
No one cares about your point, but since you want so much, HMS ARE POORLY EXECUTED