Why does /vp/ suck at theorymonning?

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Here's what I mean.

People here think that Talonflame will become a shitmon because of Bruxish and Midday Lycanroc.

People here think that Komo-o will suck because of its Fairy weakness.

People here think that a Pokemon being weak to Talonflame is enough to make it not viable.

None of these are true. Yet it's a mindset I see everywhere on here.

>>29324332
both
>tfw no dragon cock to suck on rn

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>>29324332
Don't be lewd.

>>29324300
I think Bruxish might not be that relevant anyways because of the psychic Tapu in singles. But I might be proven wrong.

>>29324300
I still don't get the kommo-o will be bad meme.
Hydreigon is UU because it has 98 speed with no reliable way to raise it.
Even if Kommo-o has the same speed, we know it gets autotomize.

>>29324408
because shitters see a 4x weakness and think it's guaranteed to be a shitmon

>>29324404
Bruxish won't be relevant because Game Freak fucking hates fish Pokemon. Seriously, the only vaguely fish-shaped Pokemon even close to not being in PU is Sharpedo.

>>29324408
>it gets autotomize

Wait, really? I haven't followed leaks after the dex.

>>29324468
kyogre

>>29324491
totem hakamo uses it in the demo

>>29324300
Talonflame will probably drop with how many anti-priority things are coming from Alola, let alone its regular checks/counters.
>We have 2 Pokemon immune it its priority, one of which resists its secondary type.
>A new priority, maybe even a bp 80 priority move, that kills Talon
>A new field effect, which can be summoned by an ability (and probably a move too) that protects all grounded Pokemon from priority and can be given to your entire team. It makes any grounded flash flare user completely immune to Talon's precious STABs

If that field effect move that makes priority do 0 damage and the rock priority become well distributed, especially for Fire resists, Talonflame will drop.

>>29324495
>orca
>fish

confusednigger.jpg

>>29324720
Those things will probably make Talonflame less used in doubles. The only thing I see actually hurting it in singles is the psychic Tapu.

>>29324460
I'm going to use my (only) dildo soon too anon

>>29323509
There's no process when we theorymon, its just shooting the shit and claiming to know things we don't

>>29324720
It won't drop you fucking idiot.

Hippowdon, Landorus-Therian, Rotom-Wash, Tyranitar, Heatran. These are all Pokemon that COUNTER Talonflame. These are all Pokemon that are incredibly common (and no, they're not common for the sole purpose of countering Talonflame. It's part of it, but they fulfill other roles)
Dragonite, Thundurus-Incarnate, Gyarados, Mega Manectric, Garchomp, Weavile, Mega Lopunny. These are all Pokemon that CHECK Talonflame, and they're relatively common.
Stealth Rock also forces teams that depend on their Talonflame to carry hazard removal.
Talonflame has base 81 Attack, which is very weak.

Why am I saying this?

I'm saying this because taking all of this into consideration, Talonflame should NOT be OU right now - Talonflame is good DESPITE its checks and counters.
Talonflame is OU because Flying-type priority is THAT GOOD. A handful of shitmons being introduced that sorta counter it doesn't mean anything. Bruxish won't be OU as never has a fishmon been good, and even if it sees usage Talonflame just shrugs and switches out. The field effect is gimmicky at best, and Talonflame can just switch out of it. Lycanroc is the only new Pokemon that actually threatens it since it will most definitely get Stealth Rock and Morning Sun, and Talonflame just does the same thing it does versus any other Pokemon that it can't deal with. It switches out. Not like Lycanroc wants to switch in on a Will-o-Wisp anyway

Flying priority means Talonflame will always - ALWAYS - be OU. Always. You'd have to nerf Gale Wings for it to remotely stand a chance of dropping, or change its HA entirely. But the only times HAs have been changed have been for unreleased Pokemon. Talonflame in its current state is not going anywhere.

This is what I meant. /vp/ sucks at theorymonning.

>>29324720
I'm not too sure about this
>Tsareena
Flare blitz incorporated. No one uses Choice Band Talonflame anymore, and they certainly won't come Gen 7. If anything it can wall mono-attacker sets, but those will probably be unused in Gen 7 as well, for that very reason.
>Bruxish
I'm so-so about this. It depends on how good it's stats are, and whether it's useful besides checking Talonflame. As a defensive Pokemon, Slowbro gives it a ton of competition, and to be honest I don't think its stats will be that good.
>Accelerock
I think this will be pretty limited in terms of distribution. The only Pokemon confirmed to get it is a frail-looking Rock dog, that might struggle to switch into Talonflame, although it can revenge it. It's probably slower than Talonflame, meaning it needs to be under sand to out-prioritize it. It all depends on Accelerock's distribution. If something bulky like Tyranitar gets it, that could be bad news for Talonflame.
>Waifu Koko
Although it can switch into predicted Brave Birds, I guarantee you it'll be slower than 126 base Speed. So it can't actually check Swords Dance builds probably, although it can make it easier for a teammate to revenge kill. Maybe if you put a Scarf on it you can revenge some slower Talonflame builds, although it also looks prone to getting set up on by Bulk Up sets. Once again, kind of on the fence here.

>>29325008
>Talonflame just does the same thing it does versus any other Pokemon that it can't deal with. It switches out.
>Tyranitar used Pursuit

A lot of the time, if the opponent keeps up Stealth Rock pressure, Talonflame can't afford to switch out. I'm being nitpicky though, cause I mostly agree with you.

>>29325167
Pursuit won't kill if it's burned. Tyranitar can't afford to switch in.
If you suspect the opposing Tyranitar is Pursuit, like if they have a Charizard or Keldeo on their team, Talonflame users typically play their Talonflame more carefully.

>>29325083
Tsareena might still lose to single attack sets because of Wisp and Roost. Dog won't want to switch into Wisp either, and if Accel Rock isn't +2 priority and if the dog doesn't outspeed Talonflame, it might not be as good as it seems. Koko kinda depends on bulk, but seems more consistent since the terrain lasts for 5 turns and might not get neutered by a Wisp since it doesn't seem like it's explicitly physical.

>>29323509
Because we're all bad at competitive. Duh.

I hope GF overloads the game with too much broken stuff, so much smogon can't possibly ban it all and everything falls to chaos.

>>29325247
Tsareena might lose to Roost + Wisp, but it makes nonsense of the Bulk Up + Taunt set. And although Rock types need to be wary of Wisp, a burnt Rock type can still check Talonflame, and force it out. I see no reason for Accelrock to be anything but another retyped Quick Attack though.

because barely anyone here actually plays competitive seriously

there were people who thought Contrary Serperior would only be RU at best. What a fucking joke

>>29325008
>The field effect is gimmicky at best
I dunno, if it were a move I would agree with you but being able to call something like that just by switching can be a really great support

just imagine if there was a pokemon who calls shit like trick room just by switching, suddenly it feels less gimmicky

>>29325384
Thinking about it more, I might have banked too much on Accel Rock, since I guess it could run Stone Edge just in case it's Bulk Up Roost Talonflame. It makes me wonder if that thing will actually be effective though, even with a nice move like that.

>>29324468
Alomamola is pretty good.

>>29325865
Forever outclassed by Suicune

>>29325865
It is, you're right.

>>29325890
i'd like to see suicune do THIS!
*regenerates*

>>29324300
>People here think that Talonflame will become a shitmon because of Bruxish and Midday Lycanroc.
True, those people are idiots
>People here think that Komo-o will suck because of its Fairy weakness.
No, it's going to suck because it's a defensive mon with a shit defensive typing (which is actually good offensively) and his stabs get walled by fairies, will likely not outspeed any of the relevant dragons and even with fairy-slaying coverage there's at least one fairy type combination that is going to fuck him silly.
>People here think that a Pokemon being weak to Talonflame is enough to make it not viable.
Depends on what you mean by viable. Said Pokemon needs top notch utility or be incredibly rewarding when Talonflame is off the field, otherwise it's usually not worth having in the team compared to Pokemon that aren't weak to it, but this doesn't mean they are absolutely useless.

Because /vp/ is full of ignorant children who like to talk about things they have zero idea about.

I miss when /vp/ could actually talk about competitive, now, every thread is a VGC vs Smogon shitfest. I mean, we had them before too, but at least the people on them knew their shit.

>>29327942
If multiscale is its HA, it will be ou instantly. No matter what its speed is because of Weakness Policy plus Automize

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>>29324430
Pretty much.

Then they call hacks or whine when weavile or Tyranitar slaps their shit.