Parental Bound has been nerfed to 25% extra damage. Does this

>>29134073
If the Seismic Toss mechanics are unchanged, RestTalk SToss might still be too much. It definitely brings its normal offensive sets into line though.

>>29134073
It still breaks Substitutes, has Body Slam paralysis doubled, has Power-Up Punch doubled, etc.

At worst she may drop to OU due to low damage output but with all those things that can do she won't be overlooked.

>>29134073
Mega rayquzzua is now the only most powerful. Kanga was close to him but now not so much.

where are people getting this info from

why not just remove bonus effects from second hits

>>29134073
Which meta, VGC? Megas are banned this season anyways. This nerf has a bigger impact on M-Kang's performance in doubles than it does in singles (mostly because doubles is faster paced than singles and M-Kang can't afford more than 1 PUP in most cases) but it's pretty significant.

It doesn't 'fix' the meta though. If -iate abilities also lost their bonus STAB, huge power was changed so it calculated on base stat rather than on EV'd stat and M-Gengar lost Shadow tag, I would say that Megas would be basically balanced in the grand scheme of things (of course Mgar doesn't matter in doubles really but perish trap Mgar is a piece of shit to deal with in singles).

Then to balance the meta, assuming GF's anti-priority mons and accelrock can truly check talonflame, all they'd need to do is nerf King's Shield so that Aegislash can't switch to defensive form after every attack basically for free.

>>29134174
It won't drop to OU, it still fucks offense badly thanks to its decent speed tier and lo boosted sucker punch + lo boost es double edge/ double paralyzis chance bodyslam.

And as said before, this thing freaking has its rest talk seismic toss set, it won't be OU for much.

>>29134210
Gook trailer showed off megas because their last trailer didn't.

>>29134073
A little? It certainly shifts it, sinc enow there is little reason to use Mega-mom over Mega 'mence. Mega mom really only looses the icing on the parental bond cake. It still auto breaks sashes, chips subs, turns PuP into Swords Dance, and gives a free Serene Grace boost on top of 20% more power. It will probably stay ubers, but it probably will drop in VGC usage.

>>29134181
Kanga isn't that close to MRay in power. Like, not even in the general vicinity. There's probably like a good 15 Pokemon between the two. MKhan is stil very powerful, above the level of quite a few box legendaries, but not even remotely comparable to MRay. Pdon, Xerneas, and Arceus are probably the only Pokemon that should currently ever be compared to MRay for pure power level.

>>29134237
I don't think I'd enjoy a Huge Power or a Pure Power nerf, if only because it'd doom the non-megas that have it.

The nerf balances it decently for VGC but it's still fucked in singles if they don't change how PuP and Seismic Toss work.

>>29134073
Git gud instead of complaining shitter

>>29134216
That's too smart for Gamefreak to think.

I mean, look at Masuda, the damn fool was surprised when he saw people using Special Aegi because in his mind he was designed only for physical use.

Because apparently it having 150 spatk which can't be affected by things like WoW and Intimidate that are everywhere and also has a wider special movepool than physical does not ring as special attacker in his head.

Reminds me of Sakurai who was surprised when people were up-air juggling with Meta Knight when he went to a tourney in Japan, which is the reason Meta Knight got nerfed in a following patch to remove that by the way.

It's like these people don't play their own games to know what's good and what's not which makes their "fixes" even more retarded later-on. Bruxish and Tsareena.

>Fuck, people are complaining about Talonflame too much!
>What do we do boss?
>I know, let's give a mono-grass type an ability that makes priority moves not work, that way it'll be countered! Nevermind that Talonflame also runs Flare Blitz which would kill it! I'm such a genius I fixed the metagame!
>You really are boss!

>>29134327
They could go back and adjust BSTs of the stuff that isn't broken to put them at similar levels of power to where they are now but the way huge power is calculated, as is, makes it an inherently busted ability.

I really do hope that GF gets a little more aggressive with BST changes, I was very happy to see that they finally grew the balls to do it last gen.

>>29134411
To be fair, Bruxish and Accelrock Lycanrock, provided their stats are decent, will be good counter options against Talonflame.

>>29134437
>Bruxish
>Wasting a slot on a monowater Pokemon that does not excellent just because it ignores Brave Bird

Bruxish is shit

>>29134480
>Bruxish
>mono-water

How about you educate yourself before speaking?

>>29134360
Yes, the Seismic Toss issue must be fixed. 200 HP fix damage is too much. 125 HP sounds mich better. Note that there is also Night Shade Chandelure, when you want to break Substitutes.

>>29134437
Literally every rock type counters Talonflame, Lycanrock won't be bringing anything particularly new to the table.

Bruxish will only work if it has decent stats. Knowing Gamefreak they will give it nearly no hp and def and lots of sp def because "Dazzling cancels priority moves so it has no need for physical defenses"

>>29134480
It's water/psychic. You are also giving Sucker Punch the middle finder and even Fake Out. Bruxish has potential, it all depends on the stats and movepool it'll get.

>>29134413
I don't entirely like the idea if only because it's to power down a single mon, and it's not as if it's an exclusive ability. Medicham isn't broken, not even as a mega. It's purely because of Mawile.

>>29134413
There's only one mega with huge/pure power that's broken, and it's by far the weakest of the strongest megas, it's like BARELY above the power level of other generally strong megas like Zard X or Lopunny. There's no reason to readjust the ability when none of the other Pokemon that get it are even remotely broken. M-Maw is so borderline it'll probly even be powercreeped back to a reasonable level next gen, like Mence/Chomp/whatever have before it.

>>29134480
>its actually water/psychic shitlord
>counters brave bird and resists flare blitz
>counters all prankster users
>we don't know the BST yet but it's not a definite shitmon yet

>>29134237
The other day I was commenting with a friend on how to nerf pure/huge power. Would you consider it too much if the ability was ineffective if thr pokemon had a status condition?

>>29134318
What are the most powerful pokemons?

>>29134552
That would absolutely kill it and all of the pokemon that depend on it.

>>29134552
This would increase the occurrence of Thunder Wave, Toxic Spikes, WoW and Toxic a lot.

>>29134552
Why would Huge Power be nerfed? The only Pokemon that it truly makes "broken" is Mega Mawile, and the damn thing is broken not just because of Pure Power but because it has a god-tier typing, god-tier movepool and even the non-mega ability it's good.

Shove 20atk from Mawile and put it on speed or some other stat or make it not able to learn Sucker Punch anymore. That's a more reasonable nerf.

All you'll be doing by nerfing those is nerf everyone else that has those abilities harder than the one you wanna nerf in first place. It would be exactly like how fairies ended up nerfing fighting, bug and dark types more than they nerfed dragons. It's a patchwork solution.

>>29134318
Even Arceus doesn't stack up well. I think there's a clear top tier of most powerful shit and it's Mquaza, Groudon P and Xerneas, everything else might as well be PU by comparison. Personally I find Groudon P the most annoying to deal with of these.

I'm sure Arceus-O with like 820 BST will knock them back down next gen though.

>>29134636
Not really considering that M-Mawile and Azumarill are the only commonly used pokemon that have it, and while M-Mawile is a little on the strong side and Azumarill is solid neither of them are completely busted like M-Mence or M-Kanga.

>>29134648
Arceus is still extremely good. Darkrai is also a monster, the only thing holding it back in Ubers is Sleep Clause.

megamence, mega gengar, power herb xerneas, and primal groudon still break the game

>>29134730
By your logic Darkrai is the strongest Pokemon in Anything Goes. Protip: He's not.

>>29134582
I literally gave you the list of the top 4 in that post. Other mons like Ho-oh, Dialga, Yveltal, and M-Mence trail that list before you eventually get to stuff like MKhan.

>>29134437
They can't switch in on singles.

Bruxish needs alomomola bulk to be a 2hko.

Lycanrock HP seems low, CB uturn will dent it.

Let's not forget bulky Talonflame is the best set, a WoW on the switch and this thing will tank him.

126 speed is no joke, 126 priority is godlike.

Z moves also give Talonflame ridiculous options, it can run dark, fighting, bug, fire, normal and psychic, with only bug and grass needing an offensive move.

Talonflame will shit on Lycanrock and Bruxish without even having the need to change it's moveset.

WoW, taunt and u turn, enjoy dead doge and fish.

>>29134637
I'm up for either nerfing BSTs or upping BSTs to balance things out. Along with adjusting movepools.

This is just a completely random discovery I made today, but regarding updating movepools, why the hell can Cloyster not learn Pin Missile? It has a spiky shell that should be more than capable of shooting off missiles. Plus Skill Link would enjoy it. And it adds some coverage.

The fact that Rhydon cannot learn Dragon Claw is also beyond me.

>>29134755
I didn't say it's the strongest. It is one of the best mons in AG though.

>>29134648
Arceus stacks up well vs though because Extremekiller is a set. Extremekiller by itself puts it in the same league as Pdon and Xerneas, and then it can run about 30 other extremely strong sets on top of that. Arceus has both the highest versatility of any Pokemon and about the fourth strongest set in all of Pokemon.

>>29134790
>upping BSTs
the power creep continues

>>29134786
>They can't switch in on singles.
GF doesn't give a fuck about Singles, they balance around Doubles and VGC.

Either way, you still make fair points, they won't be cockblocking the bravest bird any time soon.

>>29134073
What could they do to nerf M-Mence without taking away Aerialate (or the Aerialate boost) from it?

>>29134818
BST of certain mons should've upped because of the powercreep itself.

Compare a random gen 1 Pokemon BST to a Gen 5 or 6 Pokemon BST. Notice how haphazard the gen 1 mon BST is and how the gen 5/6 is borderline min-maxed. It's literally not fair.

>>29134824
I mean, in doubles they are potential game breakers, but in singles the bravest burd has nothing to fear, in fact Z moves managed to make this shit near heatran tier of obnoxious.

>>29134786
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lumineon: 134-158 (39.1 - 46.1%)

Lumineon's got pitiful 69/76 defenses and doesn't even need to put a point in physical defense to dodge the 2hko.

>>29134848
The -late abilities boost is fucking stupid and shouldn't have been from the get-go. Everyone who has that ability deserves that boost to be removed.

>>29134818
It doesn't need to be increased necessarily but a lot of gen1/2 pokemon in particular need overhauls, like the other guy said stat distributions have just gotten better as Gamefreak has slowly started to understand how their game works.

Most of the gen 1 pokemon only have their stupid random movepools going for them if they weren't saved by a mega or a ridiculous ability.

>>29134873
>other pokemon deserve to be shit because of Salamence

>>29134866
Make Lumineon psychic.

Now add SR.

If you want to talk about countering do it straight.

>>29134818
See >>29134857

Many older Pokemon stand no chance with their stats as is. The BST average of a generation has changed over the years.

>>29134848
The -iate boost is a bad mechanic in general. It's like here, get this ability that turns all normal type attacks into STAB and on top of that, here, have an adaptability boost for that type too!

>>29134903
I didn't mention Mence on my post though. I'm just saying how the -late abilities extra free boost is super dumb and shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Fuck Sylveon, and M-Gardevoir and M-Altaria. Mence spamming Hyper Voice is 100 times more manageable than those three cunts.

>>29134873
The other issue is that now everyone is demanding a -ilate ability for all the other types.

>>29134903
Literally the only pokemon who would become 'shit' because of that nerf is Sylveon. M-Garde and Mence would survive. M-Pinsir would still be objectively inferior to Mence in every way like he currently is anyways.

>>29134904
>SR is omnipresent in every meta
It's a nonfactor in VGC and only occasionally used in battlespot.

>>29134073
Well first we should probably adress the fact that the damage is basically like Silk Scarf vs Choice Specs. The damage output will definitely be noticeable, but I'm not sure if it's enough to drop it to OU

>>29134857
People look at Gen 5 BST like it's super inflated or minmaxed: the reality is that Gen 5 just had a shitton of legendaries and had a single ridiculously minmaxed non-legendary named Haxorus. If you compare apples to apples, you still see extremely minmaxed mons in Gen 1 like Alakazam and both Gen 1/5 having fairly comparably rounded stats for legendaries.

Gen 5's non-legendaries aren't even higher BST on the high end because mons like Arcanine exist. The only "inflated" BSTs is that Gen 5 stopped giving fully evolved 3-stage Pokemon sub 450 BSTs, something that Gen 1 handed out in spades. It's much more Gen 1's fault for having hilariously imbalanced early game mons for the discrepancy in BST than it is later gen's fault for not giving 3 stage Pokemon completely shit stats.

>>29134982
>It's a nonfactor in VGC and only occasionally used in battlespot.
That anon is talking about Singles though. I don't think you are that dense to not realize that. Why can't you people agree on which meta you are discussing in first place so you can discuss the usability of a pokemon or not in first place? It help a lot towards a smoother conversation.

>>29134942
>>29134982
don't give a shit about your shitty VGC meta i'm talking about singles

>>29134818

We're talking about buffing things left behind like when Hg/Ss gave Dragonite extreme speed again while BW gave it multiscale so it wouldn't just be a shit Salamence.

>>29135084
In which world do you live that the boost doesn't happen in singles?

>>29134904
I-I... do you even know how damage works in Pokemon? It avoids the 3hko without leftovers, and 2 turns of leftovers is the same as 1 turn of Stealth Rocks. Psychic is not weak to flying. You can't 2HKO with U-Turn. I didn't even put a point into physical defense EVs.

In case you're too autistic to understand any of that:
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lumineon: 144-170 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even with the absolutely PITIFUL defenses of Lumineon and the added weakness of Psychic type (added in the calc), U-Turn (WHICH YOU CAN'T 2HKO WITH) still does less than half and barely consistently kills after rocks with lefties. If this thing has even REMOTELY reasonable defenses, say...

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%)

Azumarill isn't even a very tanky Water type, it's pretty average. With Water/Psychic typing applied, it's never getting 2hko'd by u-turns after rocks, and taking a PITIFUL:

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 89-105 (22 - 25.9%)

26% MAXIMUM from Blitz.

Bruxish doesn't require outstanding stats to be a counter, but if it does have good stats and a decent movepool, it'd be a bonus. Here's also the aforementioned Alomomola bulk, which was implied could only barely survive a 2hko.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 138-164 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 89-105 (16.6 - 19.6%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Barely even a scratch.

>>29135129
the fuck are you talking about anon, i think you're lost in your own arguments

i was saying thing like Gardevoir or Pinsir are good now in singles and not broken like Salamence. Actually i think Mence is the only one with the -ate ability in Ubers
They're definitely spammy abilities but they surely aren't unbalanced and they shouldn't be taked away just because of one pokemon

>>29135150

The idiot posted Lumineon.

52+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Lumineon: 175-208 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers Recovery.

Alomomola bulk is overkill given that we know Bruxish has at best 81 hp thanks to the trailers.

This is vs 252 Def 252 hp, if we assume Bruxish runs something similar it's more than obvious it can't switch in on Talonflame at all, when we add WoW and potential dark and bug Z moves even with the lack of lo Talonflame just shit on the fish.

>>29134942
Honestly, the only thing that'd suck is that Glalie becomes even more of a shitmon. Oh, and Aurorus too but you can't save that thing.

>>29135300
I thought a Pokemon could only use Z-moves of of its type. So Fire or Flying for Talonflame.

>>29134994
What about stuff like Excadrill, Conkeldurr, Chandelure and Stoutland?

>>29134411
>let's give a mono-grass type an ability that makes priority moves not work
Damn it, I thought it was a Trace clone, which is why it was shown off against Bruxish. Instead it's just a Dazzling clone, how boring.

>>29135300
Did you forget Dazzling blocks priority because you sound retarded.

>>29135300
You... do realize that we're comparing bulk values here right? As in, Brave Bird would do 0% because Bruxish is immune to Brave Bird because of Dazzle. The only moves Talon could hit it with is Blitz and U-Turn.

Nobody is here suggesting Lumineon is a counter to Talon. We're suggesting that something with that bulk would be able to check Talon due to ability to comfortably come in on Brave Bird and Flare Blitz.

If you want to go into the realm of Z-Moves, you can also go into the realm of the fact they're 1-time use, so you could potentially just get predicted and completely waste your Z-Move that game

>>29135380
Conkeldurr is barely more minmaxed than Machamp and gets weaker abilities to make up for it.
Stoutland is just the case of them not giving early game Pokemon <450 BSTs anymore. This is something that's Gen 1's fault for doing, not Gen 5's for stopping a retarded trend.
Excadrill isn't even particularly high BST or Min/maxed, it's just Sand Rush is a retarded ability.
Chandelure is less min/maxed than Alakazam/Gengar, it's got 10/15 more SpA but the rest of its stats are much more well rounded.

>>29134124
Does it actually does 2 real seismic toss? or the second is halved?

>>29134538
>Talonflame used U-turn!
>It's super effective!
>Talonflame went back to its trainer!

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def psychic Lumineon: 138-164 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.

OK, let's be honest, Bruxish was stated to have around 80 at best hp if it's ivs where 0 in the trailers. If you really want to counter Talonflame you are going to have to run leftovers and 248/252 physical bulk.

Dazzling isn't even stated to stop self target priority moves, a set of taunt + wide roost Talonflame can stop the fish in its tracks, an offensive bulky Talonflame puts this thing on 68% hp on the best possible scenario after it u turns.

Pursuit users with Talonflame is one of the most common things in existence.

Please tell me how is this thing supposed to counter Talonflame when even on the best possible scenario it can only check him once.

Bruxish needs 80/80 bulk to check twice, the statement with alomomola was a joke, I knot that shit tanks Talonflame even with psychic type as it would deal around 26% and lefties+Regenerator are a bitch.

Z moves can be run by moves using coverage, I think we saw hyper sprint already used in a battle Royale demonstration by a non normal Pokémon, bloom Doom Heatran and dark z move taunt Talonflame aren't that far off at this point.

>>29134637
Leave Mawile alone!
Just notice how often it's used in compare to others OP pokemons, and I'll notice it's not so hrd to knock it down.

>>29136304
>I have no problems with it so it's not OP!
>There's better Pokemon than it so it's not OP!
Any other karenfag who has no idea how competitive is actually like arguments friend?

>>29135993
And you u-turned out so your talonflame is now dead to stealth cocks congrats

File: masuda (2).png (236KB, 336x418px) Image search: [Google]

236KB, 336x418px

>>29134411

>>29136679
Can't argue here, but Bruxish didn't really do much and SR can be dealt easier than successfully using wish on Bruxish.

Also all of the other priority users in singles actually got a way around the fish, bulky Infernape got WoW and potential GK, Lucario got 2 base 80 dark type moves, Dragonite got a lot of options to be honest, medicham can run thunder punch, Scizor has u Turn and mega scissor has great speed plus bug bite/u turn, Sundoge might get crunch and even without it stab stone edge hurts a lot, medicham got thunder punch, pinsir got Return, Azumarrill has knock off and it is often speed creepped hard, Breelom gets to use its stab... And Talonflame has WoW and u turn.

Bruxish won't really achieve much on execution when you realize that most Pokémon don't even have to change their movesets a lot to deal with him.

>>29134538
Saw its HP in the trailer, have no hope

>>29137184
Pretty much it needs 80-110 Def to actually counter Talonflame, this is at least 160 out of 590 or less possible stats, at best we can hope for 500 on a single stage mon. There are a lot of issues with Bruxish.