Do you like change?

>>28957521
No. Change is hardly ever a good thing

>>28957552
faggot

>>28957521

I'm neutral about it and change is neutral force.

>>28957561
t. ashnimefag

>>28957521
All long as it's not too different

>>28957607
>Ashnimefag
>Welcoming change

Come again?

>>28957607
>managed to watch the same garbage for over 20 years
>think they in any way are fine with change

you what?

>>28957616
This

Ash has changed gradually throughout the years

Why they show an extreme sample?

>>28957521
>implying change is always best

Lots of new things end up being shit, so the anime will probs revert back after a season

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>>28957521
Not at all.

>>28957521
Yes. Why wasn't the MC dropped already?

No when the change looks like a downgrade

>>28957521
It depends on what they change and how they change it.

I don't even mind radical changes if it ends up being good.

No, I prefer bills.

>>28957521
>"it's so different"
It's been changing for a while now. People aren't upset between the contrast of Kanto Ash and Alola Ash. It's Kalos and Alola variants.

Splitting hairs aside, girlcat makes a valid point

>>28957862
>>>/jp/

>>28957978
trying too hard/10
The subject of the comic requires a lot of words because its about a debate between two characters. When /v/ whines about wordswordswordswords in fuckley comics its because he's a hack who has the characters narrate shit he's too lazy to draw. It's not because words in comics are bad.

I want to fuck that cat

I like glasses cat

>>28957521
I hate how people on here don't get that simpler designs can mean better animation. The old Ash design is so stiff and doesn't animate very well, while in the new trailer we see this new Ash design being flexible and expressive like never before.

It's cool to have a stylistic preference, but the changes made to his design are likely made to improve animation, and no, cherrypicking and pausing for in-between frames that look silly are not evidence that the sun and moon anime won't have good animation, quite the opposite actually.

>>28958096
This.

>>28957521
The comic is right. I haven't really watched the anime since the orange islands, but suddenly, Ash is in a situation he's never been in before, the style is different and frankly, I AM interested. I've been thinking maybe to look into it. I loved pokemon as much as the next kid and I still do, but the new style is doing exactly it's intention: It's causing a stir, and re-sparking interest in a demographic they were losing or had lost. This is the best possible decision they could have made.

They're not going to pander to the autistic 5% that don't get bored after 20 years of the same shit. The games get updated, the anime gets updated.

>>28957552
Change is almost always a good thing unless you're so opposed to it that it's affecting your rational thinking.

>>28958096
Expression doesn't mean shit to me for Ash if all they are going to do is backtrack all of his experience in 3 years time.

I bet you that either Ash fails his "classes" or he suddenly forgets about his school and goes on an adventure to be a pokemon master again.

I don't want or care for an animation change, I want Ash to feel like he progresses even through regions he goes to. That or a new MC.

The Ashnime crew are afraid of Drastic Change..

>>28957521
The only good change would be to remove Ash completely.

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>>28957521
I fucking hate faggots who say things like that.
Change is okay. But when you change something good to something bad, but that is not okay.

>inb4 anime was never good comments
Fuck off. It was good. The battles were animated better than ever, and Ash being a as serious battler is way better the him being a fucking idiot.

>>28957521
change is good when it's an upgrade
but this is a massive downgrade

>>28959954
>>I bet you that either Ash fails his "classes" or he suddenly forgets about his school and goes on an adventure to be a pokemon master again.
Nah

He'll however get to the final test, only to have his normal answers be beaten by his rival classmate's legendary answers.

Change is too risky. The reason I own a 3DS is because I prefer Nintendo's policy of if it isn't broke, don't try and fix it.

>>28960046
Judging wether a change is good or bad is subjective as fuck, anon, you can't please everyone. There's obviously a marketting reason for the change, just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's a "bad" change per se. Especially since we've only ever seen bits from the first episode, who knows ? Could get better over time or could even grow on most people.

>>28957521
That bitch is showing a shitty drawing, obviously it improved. But with ash is the other way around.
When change is good it is called improvement, but when it is for the worse it is called shit.

>>28960125
>ash doesn't look the same
>therefore it's bad

Goddammit the more I hear this the madder I get.

>>28960102
>Judging wether a change is good or bad is subjective as fuck
Usually, yes. But not this time.
For one, NO ONE wants to see Ash look even younger. There is literally no one who like the new look of Ash.
It's a POKEMON anime. Having a protagonist with a personality that starters with battles and ends with battles is perfect for it. We don't need him to be goofy again.
No one wants to see Ash, the guy who almost won the Kalos League, attend a fucking school.

>Could get better over time or could even grow on most people.
But why go through this? It was already good and people were used to it. There was no need for a change.

>>28960141
A guy I've been watching for almost 20 years is now gonna look completely different for NO FUCKING REASON.
On top of that, it's not just that he's different, he actually looks shit now.

>>28960210
see
>>28959768

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>>28960046
>Fuck off. It was good.
pic related


also you forgot your rotating camera battle webm

If they want a refresh why the don't change of MC?

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>>28959768
>>28960237
>but suddenly, Ash is in a situation he's never been in before, the style is different and frankly, I AM interested
That's entirely on you though, Ash had a drastic style change when he ditched his old hat in AG. He had a style change going into BW where his eyes started being colored. He had a style change in XY too. Look at this shit.

The difference between those and this, this is the first style change that people are actively calling a bad thing. That's generally not a good thing and usually an indicator that it's not just general change people don't like- it's this specific change which is probably worse than the art before it.

>>28957521
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBH3IYRjaw

>>28960304
Because is too much of a cash cow. They've invested 20 years of marketing and merchandise in Ash's face and Ash and Pikachu. That's billions of dollars- an insane amount of money.

Look at all these fucking manbabies losing their shit over a style change. Changing MCs is too much of a gamble. More than that. At this point, it has nothing to do with the story anymore. It's just not worth it.

>>28960399

This.

All you have to do is look at all the crying on /vp/ over Ash's losing the Kalos League, or his redesign, to know exactly why they're not changing the cartoon's main protagonist.

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>>28959768
>>28960237

One autist got interested because Ash looks shit now, that means everyone who thinks Ash looks shit now will start watching the anime?

This is not first time Ash has changed. It's not even the first time he's looked bad. BW did it first.

Most of it's loyal fans, not that autist who skipped it all and thinks he matters, the ones who actually liked and watched all of the anime and bought merchandise and shit, they are now less likely to watch this season. I've seen more people claiming they won't watch this season than vice versa, not just on /vp/, but everywhere.

To add to that, getting a few autists interested is going to achieve nothing. People pirating the anime online isn't what makes them money. It's the ones who buy the merch and stuff. It's plain as day that not many are going to spend money buying Blu-Rays of something on that makes Ash look retarded and has no League. Look at BW for an example

>>28957607
He's right, you're the actual faggot.

>>28960457
>>28960380
>this is the first style change that people are actively calling a bad thing.

No way. I remember that, and people lost their shit over the fact that Ash's eyes are brown now.

And before that, when Ash went to Johto and changed his hat, everyone lost their shit over that too.

After twenty years of the same thing a franchise needs to change to stay relevant, or it'll sink. It must- this is non-negotiable, no matter how many people kick and scream and complain about it.

Franchises are very rarely carried by the actual fans. For every 100 die hard fans, there are 100,000 casuals and they're the ones that carry the franchise. Those 100,000 dipshits that reblog and buy that shit for 3 months and then drop it. They're the ones that see the big posters and buy it for their grandkids. They're the ones franchises panders to. Not you, the fans. Because no matter how much you love a series, you aren't the ones buying billions of dollars of merchandise.

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Okay, can you faggots stop pretending that you're "Totally fine with change as long as it's good :^)"? No, don't fucking act like the absolute minimal changes through the anime is somehow proof that you're not being reactionary tards

Or are you going to actually claim that >>28960380
the small change in eyes and hair is somehow a "big change"?

Do you actually think anyone would get upset over Ash suddenly having colors in his eyes? It's a small change that is just plain stupid to ever get angry over. Now they are however making a big, actual change in design, to make him more "fluid" in style and thus more flexible to animate. There's nothing wrong with the design.

I can however understand why people are pissed about Ash seemingly looking younger as it might imply that shit has been retconned and people have wanted to see Ash grow up for a while.

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Ash's changes from OS - DP were so smooth, I don't understand why they had to fuck it all up.

They should make ash a girl since hes a fucking pussy

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>>28960534
Holy fuck, now you're starting to make shit up. No one cared when Ash changed his hat or got his eyes colored. Maybe one or two retards might've shitposted about that, but that was fucking it. Most of the people didn't even notice the eyes.

>After twenty years of the same thing a franchise needs to change to stay relevant, or it'll sink. It must- this is non-negotiable.

See One Piece. Been the same for 20 years, people love it. There's an anime that's been running for almost half a fucking century now, and it's still well liked in Japan. You don't need change as long as the show is good.

>Franchises are very rarely carried by the actual fans
>They're the ones franchises panders to. Not you, the fans

Where the fuck are you getting this from? It's the opposite. They don't give a flying fuck about casuals. You have no fucking idea how the anime industry works, do you?

>>28960556
Oh, so they made Ash look shittier to make the animation better. We should just accept that and be happy, right?
No one fucking asked for it. The animation was okay.
And there's nothing that indicates this will make the animation better, since it seems only Ash is getting this design change. The rest of the cast looks normal.

Serena got a big change in her design. Most people didn't give a fuck, some liked her new look, and only a handful of people disliked it. The fact that literally everyone dislikes this Ash should be enough to convince you that this was a shit decision.

>>28960690
>Oh, so they made Ash look shittier to make the animation better. We should just accept that and be happy, right?
Why is it shittier? Explain. Because it's more fluid?

>No one fucking asked for it. The animation was okay.
Animators appreciate it since it's easier to work with and it'll result in less stock animations.

>Serena got a big change in her design
Not really a big change, it was mainly just a haircut and outfit change, which is hardly unusual in any medium. A visual style change is however much more rare.

>The fact that literally everyone dislikes this Ash should be enough to convince you that this was a shit decision.

>"It's shit because everyone says it is :^)"

People are just being reactionary faggots like always, should be pretty obvious since forever. Just look at how people react to every single new pokemon generation and the new pokemon it brings. Always the same thing, with people complaining about pokemon not having the same visual style as Gen 1 and that they're "overdesigned" or whatever.

People are overreacting.

>>28959801
>change is almost always a good thing
Can you prove that?

>>28960690
>Where the fuck are you getting this from? It's the opposite. They don't give a flying fuck about casuals. You have no fucking idea how the anime industry works, do you?
Bull fucking shit they do. Where are you getting your information? Once in a while you get an outlier, but It's the casuals that bring in the money. Just look at comic book movies- they're the best example. You got these huge names- decades old, but they only make the same five movies over and over again. Are they going to go deep lore? Fuck no. Because that's too abstract for a casual audience. You're not going to sell merchandise if you make an hour and a half long movie focusing on Tony Stark's crippling depression and ptsd, even if it's what all the fans want, because that's not what sells to casuals. You're a moron.

gamercat looks so much more yiffy now, I want him to show me his cat dick

>>28960797
kek, i needed that.

>>28958066
they are cats. cat's cannot speak in fully formed sentences. everyone knows this.

>>28960749
>Why is it shittier? Explain. Because it's more fluid?
Ash loos like a kid, he's expressions seemed exaggerated, the "Z' on his face look horrible and he's less detailed. All of that makes it shittier.

Now let me ask you, why do you think it's fluid? Everything we've seen so far looks pretty much the same as XY, just with a shit art style.

>Animators appreciate it since it's easier to work with and it'll result in less stock animations.
That doesn't excuse anything. We don't care if it's easier on animators or not, we just care about the end product.

>Not really a big change, it was mainly just a haircut and outfit change,
It was the biggest change the anime had before SM.

>people complaining about pokemon not having the same visual style as Gen 1
No one does that. Even Genwunners don't care about anime art style.

>People are overreacting.
No, you're just being a contrarian.

>>28960784
Oh, you right. I'm the one who's wrong. How could I have been so blind?
Fans don't support the anime. Fuck no. Why would fans support it? It's clearly the casuals. Every season, they get more casuals watching and supporting the anime, and the fans watch, like, a couple of season only and never support it.

By the way, can I see your sources? Don't get me wrong, I believe you completely and totally, but just in case I come another idiot like myself, and he asks for a source. So, pretty please?

>By the way, can I see your sources? Don't get me wrong, I believe you completely and totally, but just in case I come another idiot like myself, and he asks for a source. So, pretty please?

I'm curious about the sources too. Why would you think casuals support a show more than fans.

>>28961060
My sources, you pretentious fuckwit, are empirical evidence and that I studied marketing.

>>28957552
It's just a way for companies to say fuck you to their old fanbases while they try and lure a new batch in, but they don't have the balls to actually launch a new franchise since they're still financially dependent on the old

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>>28960910

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>>28961060
>Ash loos like a kid, he's expressions seemed exaggerated, the "Z' on his face look horrible and he's less detailed. All of that makes it shittier.
I already mentioned the kid thing in my first post, the "Z" thing is something he's had since fucking always >>28960380 as seen here and there's nothing showing that he's less detailed. What you're more than likely referring to is that he has less edges than his previous incarnation.

>Now let me ask you, why do you think it's fluid?
Did you even watch the trailer? He has rounder, softer features, making him seem less stiff and thus also allowing for more flexibility in movements without it seeming off.

>That doesn't excuse anything. We don't care if it's easier on animators or not, we just care about the end product.
Then you'll just end up with a shitty product at some point.

>It was the biggest change the anime had before SM.
Which speaks volumes of just how stale the anime has been.

>No one does that. Even Genwunners don't care about anime art style.
Talking about the visual design here, people whining that "New pokemon are overdesigned", not have the same visual style as the old concept art in Gen 1.

>No, you're just being a contrarian.
No, people are overreacting, I'm speaking from a design standpoint here while others seem to just complain solely because it's a visual change in design. People don't have to like it, but the whole shit about animators being lazy now and designs being shit is just overreactions from people that doesn't want to see change.

I can understand people not liking Ash looking younger but most complaints seems to just be "It's shit" without anyone saying why.

>>28961281
That's not a cat. That's a Pokemon.

Pokemon are distinct from animals. Donphan is not an indian elephant after all.

I like the art style for this season more than I like any art style since the first one. The anime will be the same garbage as always, though. It'll follow the exact same formula as always because it's only made as a glorified commercial. And they already know what sells.

>>28957552
>t. fixed mindset moron

>>28957521
>Why would you change what works?
>Implying the ashnime worked before.

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>SM fans tell people that if they hate the change if the main series, they have a shit opinion
>same people who say Generations is shit

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>>28961296
>the "Z" thing is something he's had since fucking always
We had gotten used to them. Now they've made them bigger and made his overall face smaller(it at least seems smaller), so the "Z" stick out like a sore thumb.

>there's nothing showing that he's less detailed
How about the entire trailer? There is almost no shading on Ash, and in the shots he isn't the focus, like when being chased by Bewear or when he walks in with Kukui, he lacks so much details that he looks downright retarded.

>Did you even watch the trailer? He has rounder, softer features, making him seem less stiff and thus also allowing for more flexibility in movements without it seeming off.
I watch the trailer again, and compared it to XY & Z trailer, and I'll give you this one. The animation looked smoother in comparison.

>Then you'll just end up with a shitty product at some point.
"It's hard for the animators" doesn't count as an excuse for worse quality, no matter how you cut it.

>Which speaks volumes of just how stale the anime has been.
And nobody cared. But now that it isn't "stale", everyone is hating it.

>people that doesn't want to see change.
And that should be enough reason not to change. If people don't want it, why do it?

I understand this will make the animation better, but no one was complaining about the animation being bad. They were okay with it. XY was actually really popular compared to BW. They should've just stuck with what worked, instead of giving people a change they did not want.

>>28961248
Then show your results or your "empirical" evidence.

>>28957604
Underrated

>>28957521
>regression of an art style is good

>>28957521
I hate opinion based web comics.

>>28961660
what's the point? I already did and you ignored it. super hero movies are aimed at casuals because comic book fans are relentless, but they're a small group- I could list all the really good tv shows that were cancelled despite having a lot of fans. I could point out how the second iron man movie was more about tony's struggles, and how it didn't do as well and they immediately toned it down again in the 3rd movie. I could explain skimming prices to you, which is the prices of products introduced to the market, which are higher in the beginning specifically because there's a group of people who want to be at the forefront of a fad and that this phenomenon ties directly into people buying merchandise for a new movie just because it's new- or I could- well, I could go on, but it doesn't fucking matter.

Oh, by the way, japan has an anime market, you fucking moron. How many anime go on to have a long series but don't get dubbed? They have american fans, right?

Get fucked.

>>28961776
>super hero movies are aimed at casuals because comic book fans are relentless, but they're a small group

Fans of the comics are the fans of the original source material. Assuming they will also be the fans of the adaption is wrong.
It's like assuming everyone who likes Pokemon also likes the anime and all the mangas. That is simply not how it works.

>Oh, by the way, japan has an anime market, you fucking moron.
I have no idea why you felt the need to mention that.

> How many anime go on to have a long series but don't get dubbed?
Not many, actually. A lot of the anime gets dubbed nowadays.

>They have american fans, right?
Again, I don't understand why you're mentioning this.

I still see no sources. Just a retard desperately trying to change the subject.

>>28961899
Do you really think he'll provide a source? If he had one, he would've posted it instead of posting "what the point".

>>28957552
>>28959801

You're both idiots.

>>28961899
>studiously ignores an entire half of my point.

>>28961915
Eat my dick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_(television)
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/differences-between-target-market-demographic-23090.html
http://www.inc.com/guides/2010/06/defining-your-target-market.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2014/05/26/hollywood-doesnt-care-about-fanboy-approval/#4b0a033e6291

It's all about money and fanboys don't bring in enough profit.

>>28962023
Not the same anon, but does any of these links actually show anything indicating that casuals are the ones who make money, not fans? I don't want to go through 4 articles if they're not even going to talk about the one thing I want it to talk about.

>>28961899
>>28962023
Question: What do you both consider a casual and a fan?
If you were to ask me, anyone who watches all of the anime would be a fan, and one who rarely watches it would be a casual.

>>28962023
>>studiously ignores an entire half of my point.
Uh, let's see.

>I could list all the really good tv shows that were cancelled despite having a lot of fans. I could point out how the second iron man movie was more about tony's struggles, and how it didn't do as well and they immediately toned it down again in the 3rd movie. I could explain skimming prices to you, which is the prices of products introduced to the market, which are higher in the beginning specifically because there's a group of people who want to be at the forefront of a fad and that this phenomenon ties directly into people buying merchandise for a new movie just because it's new- or I could- well, I could go on, but it doesn't fucking matter.

What point? The skimming prices thing? It should be mostly irrelevant, since the amount of people who watch Pokemon has been, more or less, stable for a long time; it's not growing by much, but not dying either.

I'll go through the links you posted, see if I find anything even remotely related to what I was asking about.

>>28962217
Same.
That's why I'm having this argument, since he claims the people that watch a season and leave are the ones who make money for Pokemon than the fans who've watched it all. Which is bullshit.

>>28962201
The fourth one is the best

>>28962217
A casual is generally someone who will participate in a phenomenon while it's in, but isn't invested in it. Like people who watched all the nolan batman movies but haven't read the comics or seen the animated show. You know, they know about it because everybody was talking about it, but not something they've been interested in before, or after something new comes along.

>>28962298
>That's why I'm having this argument, since he claims the people that watch a season and leave are the ones who make money for Pokemon than the fans who've watched it all.
Now I get it. You're a moron. You're applying your half-assed definition onto my argument. I said:
>>28960534
>For every 100 die hard fans, there are 100,000 casuals.
If those 100 die hard fans each by a starter deck of pokemon cards, and all the movies (for example) it still won't be even close to the kind of profit made off of the 100,000 casuals that each buy a t-shirt, a plushie and a pikachu pin. Casuals are the important demographic because they're the ones that buy the merchandise and then drop it. That's why marketing is so fucking in your face, because casuals are easily distracted and they have the numbers.

>>28957552
>hardly ever a good thing
yeah you're right, i guess all of human progress was a mistake. we should undo all that stupid shit and go back to banging rocks together in caves picking mites out of our ass hair for sustenance

>still watching the anime
I advie you all to go buy some Barbie dolls because her plastic she's made out of has more substance than the anime or Ash as a character ever will.

>>28962298
and read the damn forbes article, you fuck. I can't believe I invested this much time into schooling your ass. I'm out.

>>28962493
Took my time and read the articles. Also calmed down a bit.
For most part, I can see where you were coming from. But you have to try to understand that movies work much differently than anime. When it comes to movies, just watching it is enough. That will make money for the studio that made it. But in anime's case, just getting more people to watch it isn't enough. You have to make them like it, turn them into fans who like what they saw enough to buy really expansive Blu-Rays and merchandise.
You did have a point, but that doesn't apply to anime as much as it does to movies.

>>28964848
Thank you. I can also see where you're coming from, being that anime is dependant on it's fans in a way that is different from home grown series and films. But you have to understand, a franchise as big as pokemon has sort of it's own rules. It's a bit both- while the casual won't know or care about the 13th pokemon movie- but pokemon go is a huge phenomenon. But like the article said, fans are there- they're a stable statistic, but regarding such a huge franchise, pandering to the casuals makes a difference of billions of dollars.

Changing a style is something every long lasting franchise has does. Look up logo histories for example. Famously ebay and google, but coca cola, ravenburger, milka- whatever you can think of- change is just how things happen. If you don't change enough or right, then you sink. That's how it's always been. It's the name of the game. Die hard fans can only weather it out and hope for the best, but really, they don't have any influence.

Maybe someday that'll change. Right now in the (american) animation business we're seeing a huge change in the way the medium is presented, because the people who grew up watching the first dubbed animes are now entering the field. Right now is really exciting for animation enthusiasts, but money has always been the be all, end all.

I'm sorry for calling you names.
Sorry if I don't make much sense, I'm a little drunk

>>28958066
I think it's a /v/ meme.

>Change is good because it refreshes the franchise!
You know what would have been a good change? Let Ash win the league and break the status quo.

But nooooo.

Fuck you and your shitty argument that only applies when it's to your favor you shitty comic.

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>>28957521
>They changed absolutely nothing
>It's still going to be fucking Ash
>Ash is still a loser
>Ash still threw away all his pokemon
>Ash still drags pikachu along
>It's going to be exactly the same show that's always been
>Wow, they changed so much
????

>>28965120
Oh yeah, Pokemon GO probably brought a lot of casuals back. Almost forgot about that part.

I don't mind change for most part. I've accepted most of everything Pokemon threw at me. But Ash's new look is something I genuinely disliked. Being told that it's just a change, and not even a bad change, just a simple change, just made me lose my cool.
Sorry for being an asshole earlier. I'm glad this argument didn't end on a sour note. Don't see that happening too often on these boards.

>>28957521
i never liked the anime
i do miss the sprites and i understand that its my own bias

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>>28957521
I don't like change when the change is significantly worse than what is being changed.

>>28960690
>No one cared when Ash changed his hat or got his eyes colored.
Bitch, everyone was screaming doomsday because of Ash's eyes. Even Japan was making comics mocking it.

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>>28957521
Not really.

>>28965380
This.

>>28965532
Got any saved? I can't imagine what a comic about Ash's eyes will be like.

>>28965549
they actually do make coffee from dung, and its supposed to be one of the most delicious, flavorful coffees in the world. Its also like a hundred bucks a cup.

Being unable to accept or adapt to change is a sign of autism.

>>28965568
No, they pick the coffee seeds out of the civet shit

>>28957552
autism

>>28965380
>Ash somehow looks even worse
>There is no League
>Ash, who had won Battler Frontier and placed 2nd in Kalos League, is going to School
>He'll likely fail that too

Even if you don't care about the art style, these are thing something that could make the anime even more shit.

>>28965395
No problem man, I was a little excitable myself. I'm used to dealing with contrary opinions and idiots on this site. I'm actually a pretty chill guy normally. Thank you for reading the articles. That made me really happy. Have a nice night anon.

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>>28957521
>renew interest

XY&Z was the most hyped up the anime has ben in forever, though.

>>28957521
But the old style of the cat is cuter and less fur baity