nerf/buff types

Ice was always supposed to be a "glass cannon" type.
Doesnt really make sense to give it resistances.
Water maybe, but flying and normal are just stupid.
They might make sense thematicaly, but making normal type even worse isn't necessary and flying would become a shit type if you made every hard substance resist it.

>>28842549
>Ice was always supposed to be a "glass cannon" type.

If that's actually the case, they failed. Ice doesn't need any other buff outside of resistances, as currently it only resists itself. That, or they can stop making Ice types slow with high Defense.

>>28842549
In theory, it's a good glass cannon type but either GF hates ice type with a burning passion or is too stupid to realize they made a glass cannon type because there's only one mon who can use it as a glass cannon.

>>28842368
Remove Grass' Flying weakness, it makes no sense and never has. Make Poison SE against Water. Make Ice SE and resist Poison. Nerf Ice Beam, create a new move that's similar to how Ice Beam is now but distributed exclusively to Ice-types. There's more that should probably happen but that's what immediately occurs to me.

>>28842368
Normal doesn't need any nerfs you asshat

>>28842603
The fact that they keep making ice type "walls", when ice type has no resistances whatsoever, just proves that they don't like the current ice type.
Tanky ice type pokemon make sense thematicaly though.
I would like ice to be an actual type aswell, not just "the type that used to counter dragons before fairy type".
I don't think they will add resistances without remaking the type entirely.

>>28842603
That's the fucking issue there. If you give Ice-types more types they're SE against then you only buff Water-types, not Ice-types.

Just make more shit like Weavile - fast, strong glass cannons. Ice is an offensive type but not Gamefreak keeps giving us slow, tanky Ice-types. Anything else isn't really necessary.

>>28842696
They already did nerf Ice Beam famalam. Just give more ice-types freeze dry and make freeze dry's bp higher

>>28842368
I agree with Ice resisting Normal just to help the Regis fit more of a pattern -- you're right it's hard. I also want a Regidark since it's another one weak to Fighting.

Anyway, I agree about the Flying resist too, but disagree with the Water resist.

If I wanted to nerf Water, I'd make it weak to Poison, drop Scald to 50 BP, and make all Ice attacks used by Water types have a 30% chance to freeze the user before the hit lands.

I'd throw Water a bone in turn since Fire and Grass have special qualities to them (immune to burn, immune to powder respectively) by making Water immune to moves that lower evasiveness and accuracy to highlight the flowing nature of water.

That means Defog can't be used on Water mons, and so Jellicent becomes the ultimate hazard removal blocker.

>>28842753
Well at least enough people seem agreed that Poison being SE against Water could work.

>>28842697
>Acting as if most normal types don't commonly learn Fighting and other non-Normal moves
>"you asshat"

Please take your own life.

>>28842753
>make all Ice attacks used by Water types have a 30% chance to freeze the user before the hit lands
This is the most retarded thing I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of these types of threads. Congrats.

Normal resists Fairy
Fire does NOT resist Fairy
Fairy does NOT resist Bug
Ice resists Ground and Flying

fucking tadah

These threads should have a hard mode tacked onto them where Water isn't nerfed.

>>28842779
How is it retarded? It punishes Water types for using Ice coverage since they pretty much hijacked them all from Ice type.

Did you even think that Water is only really resisted by Water? Grass and Dragon, its other resists, are both weak to Ice. That's unbalanced as hell.

>>28842791
It has all right to be nerfed.

>>28842791
How hard would it be to nerf Water anyway? Give any one type a resistance to it? If Ice suddenly got a resist to Water, would it validate the tanky mons? Scald currently likely says otherwise.

>Ice type moves with a chance to Freeze have a 30 percent chance to freeze when used by ice types
Did I fix it?

>>28842753
>>28842791
I wasn't trying to intentionally nerf Water, Normal, or Flying. I was just trying to give Ice more resistances and those types happened to fit the most in my opinion.

>>28842784

I think Ice resisting only Flying (and Ice) is superb enough of a nerf. Besides, Flying is getting a but OP these days.

>>28842779
Turn "used by" to "used on" and it's almost ok.

>>28842824
Because it sounds ridiculous. You really think that's a feasible nerf? People would scream about RNG even more. You don't see Fighting-types burning themselves with Fire Punch do you?

Freeze is a ridiculous status and you shouldn't be fucking punished for bringing coverage moves. That's insane. Otherwise you might as well make every other type that learns it Ice Beam be hit like that as well.

>>28842831
Water isn't really broken on its own, it's just that Scald is too good. Just reduce the burn chance to 10%.

>>28842368
Water is weak to Poison

>>28842368
I think type resistances should be affected by weather. For example, during sunny weather, water could be super effective against ice because of its higher water potential meaning warmer water. But during hail or normal weather, ice would resist water by .5 and .25 respectively. But I agree with the "normal" resistances that ice should have such as being resistant to normal and flying.

>>28842840
no
relying on rng doesn't fix a type. People already said how to fix ice, just make more ice-types that are fast and strong.
>b-but what about the other ice-types
who cares? the only one I can see that is really fucking shit is auroros, everything else has something to validate them

>>28842922
>Because it sounds ridiculous. You really think that's a feasible nerf?

Yes, because it's more sensible than going and ripping Ice Beam and Blizzard and Ice Punch off of a huge chunk of the dex, among other things.

>You don't see Fighting-types burning themselves with Fire Punch do you?
Are you not seeing the relationship between Water and Ice or are you purposefully being obtuse? Ice is chilled water, so it'd make sense for it to be more susceptible than the average mon if its temperature is threatened like that.

>Freeze is a ridiculous status and you shouldn't be fucking punished for bringing coverage moves.
Oh please, Grass and Dragon can't even function as effective walls for Water, which is far more bullshit but you're used to it so you don't give a shit.
Water can take the gamble by running Ice, run Scald with it to thaw, not run Water and use the slot on something else, or just put it on Water/Ice dual types.

It's not even that insane. It's stripping them of a coverage option that it's been blessed to have for far too long.

>>28843021
Water also takes a fuckton of energy to change form, so why would the mons freeze? They can tolerate the cold, so they don't freeze.

There's a better case for Water resisting Ice than for Ice doing anything at all to Water.

>It's not even that insane. It's stripping them of a coverage option that it's been blessed to have for far too long.
Yes, it is insane. You're crippling Pokemon just because they're carrying a coverage move, especially with rng. It's a terrible idea, period.

>>28842840
Ice resists water and flying, loses fighting weakness
Grass resists fairy, loses flying weakness. Dragon no longer resists it
Poison SE against water, scald is now water type freeze dry with a 10% burn chance
Rock loses ground weakness, now resists itself
Bug hits fairy SE, is no longer resisted by steel
Electric hits steel super effectively
Normal now resists fairy. It's weakness is changed from fighting to dragon
Steel is resistant to poison instead of immune, still immune to poison status.
Dark loses psychic immunity, resists instead.
Psychic now hits ghosts super effectively, still retains ghost weakness, and are immune to confusion status.

Fairy no longer resists bug.
Give Poison something else to be SE against. Normal maybe?

>>28843153
Just make it NVE against Steel and Ground not SE against it

>>28843067
>Water also takes a fuckton of energy to change form, so why would the mons freeze? They can tolerate the cold, so they don't freeze.
It's not just cold, it's ice. You and I both know we're not talking about some breeze. If a Water mon has to use a move that lowers part of itself below the freezing point of water to use the attack, I don't see how I can make it clearer that a chance to freeze is fair.

>There's a better case for Water resisting Ice than for Ice doing anything at all to Water.
We're not talking about dropping ice cubes in a glass of water. We're talking about the Pokemon having to generate the ice somehow.

>Yes, it is insane. You're crippling Pokemon just because they're carrying a coverage move, especially with rng. It's a terrible idea, period.
It's sounding like you're a Waterfag considering you keep ignoring the points about Dragon and Grass, which is far more unfair. And I gave Water a niche to balance the nerfs.

Also
>especially with rng
That's laughable considering
A. it's a fucking RNG-based game
and B. their most spammed attack is Scald which has a 30% chance to burn

It's not like you have to use the fucking Ice move is the point -- it's a gamble to hit resists rather than outright removing the option to hit them that hard.

>>28843021
No, it really would be more sensible to just remove Ice Beam, Blizzard, and Ice Punch from being TMs/move tutors. That cuts out water's Ice coverage completely, unless they learn it by level up or can breed for Icy Wind or something.

And really, with how good Ice is offensively, I think that's fair. It's a bit like if every Fire type ever could learn Stone Edge.

How to fix the type chart:

>Poison is now SE against Water
>Bug is now SE against Fairy
>Ice now resists Water

>>28843249
>this kills the Water/Ground types

>>28843284
How? Ice still doesn't resist Ground, and it doesn't make them weak to Ice. Just earthquake them instead of surfing them or something.

>>28843217
I think more people would complain and it would represent the first time GF pulled a bunch of moves from mons.

Although yes, I do just want them to not be such a centralizing type with their only 2 weaknesses and ability to hit everything in the game barring itself.

What would Fire need to hit with Stone Edge?

>>28843284
hey guess what

GOOD

>>28843203
>It's not just cold, it's ice. You and I both know we're not talking about some breeze. If a Water mon has to use a move that lowers part of itself below the freezing point of water to use the attack, I don't see how I can make it clearer that a chance to freeze is fair.
You can't. I just don't agree with this and I think it's unnecessary and unfair considering that other mons who shouldn't take temperature changes as well as water can don't get hit by it as well.
>That's laughable considering
>A. it's a fucking RNG-based game
>and B. their most spammed attack is Scald >which has a 30% chance to burn
Yeah, I don't want more obnoxious rng shitting the game up. I don't even like Scald, and I'd rather advocate for Scald having its burn chance nerfed.
>It's sounding like you're a Waterfag considering you keep ignoring the points about Dragon and Grass, which is far more unfair. And I gave Water a niche to balance the nerfs.
I don't really have anything to say about them. Dragons don't even counter Water-types, I don't know why you mentioned them. As for Grass, I don't think that's a big deal. My belief is that they should resist Fairies and that's all they really need. It's not like Water-types don't foil other Water-types regardless.

>>28843314
Whoops I misread that. My mistake

>>28843321
Fire wouldn't need it in particular. It's more just the sense of one type universally getting a great offensive type on everything out of nowhere. Which is basically what all Water types getting Ice Beam is. Replace it with Fire Types learning Thunderbolt. Or Grass types learning Surf.

>>28843343
>You can't. I just don't agree with this and I think it's unnecessary and unfair considering that other mons who shouldn't take temperature changes as well as water can don't get hit by it as well.
Because Water and Ice are actually physically related compared to the other types so it's not being pulled out of thin air.

>Dragons don't even counter Water-types,
Gee, I wonder why.

>As for Grass, I don't think that's a big deal
Ok yeah you're definitely a Waterfag. They're part of the original Rock-Paper-Scissors trio yet Water can always come out on top because it gets Ice coverage to beat Grass. It sets a horrible precedent for the game.

>It's not like Water-types don't foil other Water-types regardless.
That's the whole point. It shouldn't be that you need Water to stop Water. That's inherently unbalanced.

>>28843343
>Dragon resists water
>Yet does not counter water

Consider why that is

>>28843444
Because dragon-type moves aren't SE against water desu

>>28842368
Ice doesn't need resistances. They just need to stop giving every fucking Water type Ice moves. This would help both Grass and Ice a lot.

>>28843475
Wrong. Try again. Unless you don't think Dragon types will completely wall Grass and Fire types?

>>28843475
Are you gonna really tell me Steel doesn't counter Poison just because it can't hit it for SE?

>>28842368
>ice resisting water
yeah then scald should be super effective on ice like freeze dry is on water

>>28842696
>poison se on water
this meme has to die

>>28842753
>nerfing scald
stop whining scrub

>>28842784
>Normal resists Fairy
No sense
>Fire does NOT resist Fairy
>Fairy does NOT resist Bug
you know that these resistances are because Edgezard and Mega-Waifu

>>28843147
>Bug hits fairy SE
two things
A no sense that puny bugs can hit the fair folk
B they will not nerf Gardevoir

>>28842549
Nonsense, they keep giving ice to defense pokemon that are immediately shelved for it. Only a few offensive ones exist and it's not even a very good offensive type anymore.

>>28842791
Water of all things deserves to be nerfed.

>>28842549
>Alright, boys. Dragon-types are becoming too common in the metagame. We need to make a type to defeat them.
>"Mr. Gamefreak, sir. Why don't we buff the Ice-type we made to counter dragons back in the first generation?"
>You're fired.

I had a similar idea for Ice, where it becomes resistant to Water, Normal and Flying, but it also looses its Fighting weakness. Hail also gets a buff by increasing the physical defense of Ice types, while also not hurting Fire and Water types.

Other ideas I had:
-Grass looses its Flying and Poison weaknesses and now resists Fighting
-Water becomes weak to Poison
-Rock resists itself and Electric


Also, for those that constantly insist on the "Ice shouldn't receive buffs, it's supposed to be a glass canon" argument, you understand GF won't chamge there ways any time soon ? Gen 6 should've been the wake up call that they won't stop making defensive Ice types, even now they're still doing it with Sandslash and the future snow man.

File: 1451267065909.jpg (487KB, 2048x1152px) Image search: [Google]

487KB, 2048x1152px

>>28844049

Water and Grass aren't good against rock. Ground sure but rocks erode over ages. Who plants shit in rocks?

Normal is good against Steel because beasts fuck up machinery.

Steel is good against Fairy because technology kills fantasies. Also Dragon because they're slain by knights.

Dark is only immune to Special Psychic moves. I get that they're too edgy to be influenced by mind control but it doesn't make sense when it's powering up so something else.

Grass is immune to Electric because rubber comes from trees.

Electric good against Dark because the electric chair kills criminals.

Flying good against Ghost because the breath is said to be the spirit of life so it counters death.

A Freeze variant of Toxic/Will-o-Wisp that never misses when used by Ice-Type mons.

There.

>>28842368
>Nerfing normal
Trade it with dragon or ground but not both of them