Smogon Poll

bunp

>>28738832
The complaints about Smogon:
Shitposting VGCfags-45%
People wanting certain things banned/unbanned, ignoring arguments explaining the bans, and calling Smogoners cucks-50%
Legitimate criticism about how certain mods and users act-5%

The obnoxious faggotry.

smogon is as fine as any community basically run for and by teenage boys could possibly be

Smogon are retards who cannot adapt to stuff they don't want to go through the learning curve of countering.

Their entire mindset is not about how easily they win with strategies, but how often they personally lose to them, which is precisely the wrong way to balance anything.

They do stupid shit like make specific bans or clauses, but then justify banning an entire pokemon because it has one ability. There is no consistency to their mad attempts at balancing a meta that's already covered in pointless band-aids.

See any situation where they deem an ability/pokemon bad, because it's designed as a counter to something they fucking banned. That doesn't even make sense nigga.

Competetive pokemon battling will always be pointless autistic faggotry because GameFreak never designed pokemon to be balanced for multiplayer competitions and they will never do any kind of worthwhile re-balancing.

>>28738832
>I know there is a huge anti Smogon circlejerk
No, you perceive it that way because you have a personal bias. Your own poll should tell you what you need to know, Smogon. They're a bunch of holier-than-thou manchildren, and so are they're followers

>People are starting to rig the poll
Smogonites everyone

>>28738832
>No "I think their tier system is a good idea but I don't like how the community ruins it by being ban-happy and not letting the meta form in an organic way" option

>>28739754
This is really accurate.

Also I'm amazed at how easy people forgot the energy ball jellicent incident XD.

Honestly Smogon is the only fair alternative we have, Tiers are not only an amazing idea, but a great one in execution. I mean we get a tier in wich I get to use Luxray without fearing a Darkrai or primal Groudon being on the other team, and I can even use him right in his own tier without fearing Landorus T from shitting on him like on VGC bullshit, it's really fair for what could be considered a shit mon.

People just bitch on smogon because they want things unbaned or can't escape the elo hell of cookie cuter builds out of their own shortcomings, heck these are the retards that complain unironically about rocks and blame it on stall for using hazards. When in reality hazards are the biggest asset against stall and if these retards used more than 3 neurons to team build they would make teams that aren't pressured into switching enough for hazards on your side to take a toll.

Sigh, I swear...there are things wrong with smogon, but as you said about 50% of the shit that people say only comes from idiots that only see these issues because they just plainly suck at it or are too salty they can't use their speed boost Blaziken or something.

>>28738832
I don't really see a point in boycotting Smogon if no one else is willing to create a better alternative to Competitive Single Battles.

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>>28739925
>XD
>Sigh

>>28739925
energy ball jellicent incident?

>>28739865

If you don't see that then I question how long you've been on this board

>>28739965
Lurk some bro, the whole energy ball jellicent incident is actually worth the XD, or at least a KEK.

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>>28740001
>XD

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>>28739999
dayum anon, nice quads

>>28740007
A better question is why not XD, at this moment I'm thinking of changing the XD to a :D just to see if more reactions happen about it than the topic this is supposed to be tackling.

>>28739999
Longer than you quads, that's for sure. You're just another smogonite being obnoxious because your Vietnamese online cockfighting simulator is being insulted.

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>>28739980
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/somalian-suicide-formerly-in-is.3449637/

>>28739917
I suppose it's like that for me. I think some of the things they do are really dumb, but it's nice to be able to use Diancie without the dumb restrictions on cart.

>>28740035
That does deserve a XD holy shit.
thanks anon

>>28740053
It does when you see the shit going on in the forums live. It was honestly hilarious to see people being so triggered about something so small and stupid.

Good until Gen 6. Now they're fags who just ban things willy nilly. Looking at you baton pass clause/proposed ban.

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>>28740035
>Some 14 year old abused his mod powers and got himself banned because someone used Energy Ball on Jellicent
That's what I'm getting from that thread.
What does that have to do with /vp/ liking Smogon or not? Did this thread get posted on a chatroom on Showdown or something?

Also my opinion is that they are only good for defining EV spreads and sets, their tiering system is fucktarded and needs a massive overhaul, their banning policies are also stupid and every gen they somehow manage to get worse.

I'm a Smogonfag but this poll is pretty stupid. It should have just been 1 to 10 with 5 being no strong feelings.

>>28738832
Voted I don't like it. I play the various battle spot metas, aside from unrated.

Mostly I'm attached to the Pokemon I play with on cart, but the Smogon metas are let down in general. 6v6 just isn't a fun battle style to me. Smogon can try all they like to balance it, but when you have to send out all 6 Pokemon everyone has work together well, you can't have a "just in case I see pokemon x y or z" Mon in your line up without it being dead weight. In 3v3, Nidoking for example will sitout a lot of matches, but he will also have the opportunity to actually do some damage from time to time.

In 6v6 you are punished for having a niche counter. That means you either always lose to people using viable but inconsistent tactics which, while simple to counter, changing you team to do so means you lose against people not using that tactic. So stuff gets banned, and the cycle starts again only with a power creep. Add in that pokemon is a luck based game and you're in for a migraine.

But kudos to smogon for fighting a losing battling and not doing bad. It sustained me well enough for two weeka when I lost my ds a few years back.

>>28740157
You see, people that just copy paste sets without understanding how they work are the true cancer in the franchise.

These kind of copy paste idiots are the kind of people that make smogon seem stale, but luckily enough these idiots get clumped down in the elo hell.

Once you reach a certain point you start to see really great offensive and defensive Cores, wonder trio, ABR with a spin, hazard offense with custap stuff thrown in.

Also anyone with decent brain power can see that the smogon sets only work in their own concept, people don't realize that sets like Godchomp or rocky helmet Landorus T only work in a Smogon environment as their EVs are specifically tailored to work against a few pokemon and support certain archetypes, so people copying these Landorus T sets are actually crippling their teams to a point it is a sad joke, if I was given a cracker everytime someone expected a free switch in of their Landorus T on my LO Garchomp I would be a very fat parrot.

It's also pretty stupid when people copy the set of a smogon from a Pokémon they like, but end up copying the UU set that is outspeed by half of OU.

Copying sets without context is incredibly stupid.

>>28740027
Because 4chan is a 18 years or older site.

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>>28740027
Reaction images exist, you know? It's a better way to convey expressions instead of resorting to emoticons.

>>28740298
Isn't Nidoking kinda solid in 6v6? Not the best, but okay. Honestly, 3v3 is the one I'm not comfortable with. With 6 mons in your line up at all times, it's easier to stop something from getting out of control. Where in 3v3 something can turn into a wrecking ball much easier and you're boned then and there.

Yeah I just tend to copy EV spreads since they are normally calculated with specific things in minds. Copying a full set can be dumb but sometimes it will have some meme situational move that people normally wouldn't expect.
But yeah whenever I ladder at low elo nobody expects a lot of the meme shit I tend to use.

>>28740387
>Isn't Nidoking kinda solid in 6v6?
It's a wallbreaker that can't wallbreak through Chansey/Blissey so not really. It can cuck Clefable though.

>>28740334
The number of people on battle spot that switch in/try to set up standard smogonbird on the never ending list of Pokemon that get rock tomb still cracks me up. You barely need to invest in attack.

>>28740387
Nidoking is perfectly fine, just outclassed generally by Landorus-I, which has stronger stats and can boost if it so chooses.

>>28740412
was for
>>28740334

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>>28740386
I have to browse my folders too much to find a proper non weaboo relatively safe for work reaction image that contains actual Pokémon in the context of the image.

>>28740427
Greninja is one of my favorites for this, rock tomb just fucks so many people silly when they expect you to be forced out by the bravest bird.

>>28740387
Well this
>>28740425

If Chansey/Blissyes isn't present, it can do wonders. But in 6v6 its not worth the risk.

I understand the feeling, 3v3 can be crazy. But 6v6 without restrictions or with limited restrictions is the true stuff of nightmares. 3v3 just appeals to my "yeah I can still win if I use Jumpluff/Stunfisk/Golduck/other weird mon" mindset.

>>28740427
This is why I always have to be careful with Scizor. It's like every special attacker runs HP Fire if it doesn't get a fire move, I don't wanna run into that shit.

>>28740498
Tiers, you can use most of those to amazing effect in their realms, I mean jumpluff does great in VGC, but in singles NU he is a force to be reconned if you want a support grass mon with encore.

>>28740498
It's just something I don't like dealing with. Especially when seeing Charizard, I gotta wonder if it's X or Y. And if they carry three pokemon that cover each other well and can still smash through me with a single wrong move, I'm boned.

>>28740475
I like it with Breloom myself, since he is 4x weak to flying and has that side weakness to fire.

>>28740532
Not a fan of tiers, but funny you mention it I did use nu when I was without a ds. I can use Jumpluff to great effect in lots of situations, so long as they don't have a few pokemon. And in 3v3, if they have them I can leave Jumpluff on the bench and not be at a disadvantage all battle.

3v3 is the balance of "I wanna win" and "I wanna use my favorites" that 6v6 just doesn't offer.

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Back in HG/SS days I liked seeing their basic overviews of a poke's potential. I didn't get too much into battling, but it was nice to know if I was completely wasting my time on something.

Then B/W came out and they refused to even acknowledge the game's existence for a year or so because their metas were all destroyed.

Granted, I never did anything with their forums, for reasons that should be evident

>>28740425
Just pair it with a Pursuit trapper or Knock Off user that can wear Chansey down. Hell, Nidoking himself can run Superpower to severely damage Chansey. Chansey is only really seen on stall so Nidoking does his job of balance breaker just fine.

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>>28740619
Just saying, tiers allow a pokemon to be used to its full potential with its peers.

Infiltrator encore, sleep powder and memento are just so fucking great in NU where only Whimsicott gets to do it "better" in UU and even there prankster is often too good to pass up.

Tiers did gave jumpluff a place where it isn't outclassed by another grass mon with its own perks, but a place where he is the get go choice for something, and this is why I love tiers.

I can agree more that six vs six without rules can get really stupid, stuff like snipers STag or LO mixed Greninja, trappers, suicide leads, mixed wallbreakers get a chance to run rampant and they can take a toll to a point only a select few list of pokemon become truly viable, and even there stuff like volturn+Mega Salamence are only stopped by a STag/knock off momentum killing bait such as Porygon 2.

Lets be honest, the stupid notion of things countering each other has been proved wrong by the mere existence of AG in showdown...it's just a cluster fuck. Anyone stupid enough to think stuff will evolve until they aren't centralizing are just really Naive in their views of this game and the AG experience.

>>28740035
This reminds me of a vp user that was playing UU, beat a mod's suicune with a weird toxicroak set, the UU mod then proceeds to trash talk the person he lost to, anon defends himself, and the mod then banned him from the UU room.

You dolts, Smogon sucks because it doesn't ban enough things. How the genies, M-Metagross, and M-Sabeleye all happen to be OU is beyond me.

>>28740772
You know what makes this even more hilarious?

People are rediscovering toxicroak in OU as we speak, there is also the fact that people are finally acknowledging Mega Alakazam for being fucking awesome, and out of all things SD rockslide Gliscor is gaining traction for its ability to shit on 2 playstyle and at least 6 tricores.

We might see toxicroak pull a Tangrowth, or even a quagsire if things go as well as it seems for the frog.

>>28740727
Oh I agree with you, and tiers are cool and they don't ban upwards, you can still play using pluff, the system just tells you where it will thrive and makes a seprate section for it to do so. If 3v3 had teirs, or I should say I active meta game around tiers, I'd be all over nu/uu like a fat kid on a snack pack. But if I have to choose between the most "balanced" 6v6 teir ever or 3v3 battle spot ranked almost anything goes "that faggot just baton passed to wobb" craziness, I'm going with 3v3. It just leads me to more teams I like that can still win.

>>28740876
>quagsire still isn't ou

My only issue is with their refusal to ban Stealth Rock, when there is no argument for keeping it that cant be used to justify unbanning evasion.
>Hurf durf just use niche moves to counter it, if you let it happen without a counter its your own fault

Seriously there is no reason to justify having to run Defog but not sticking Arial Ace on a Technician Scyther/Scizor to ruin an evasion fuckers day.

Note, I'm not saying ENTRY HAZARDS are bad. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are perfectly healthy. They are a bit easier to avoid/clean up, still provide a means to play around switching, but most importantly, aren't typed in a way that does absurd amounts of unpreventable damage to specific mons. I would have ZERO problem with Spikes replacing it entirely in the current meta because it opens up more options to play around, and promotes a healthy meta. Much like how banning Swagger makes sense, but banning Confusion is overkill. The strategy is valid, the move is too easily abused.

Alternatively, the OTHER extreme of if GF introduced more entry hazards of OTHER types to create more varieties of Stealth Rock in other types. Preferably also with more ways to remove/counter them.

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The clauses piss me off. I like the idea of not having my entire team asleep or having to battle 6 rocky helmet ferrothorns or fully minimized blisseys or something annoying like that, but they completely ignore the game's built-in counters to specific strategies, and are all based around just banning stuff they don't want to play around.

The main problem with tiers is they are usage based.

>>28741072
At the same time, at this point with so many pokemon here and even more on the way, it would be actually impossible for people to keep track of dominant strategies and unfair bullshit and keep the tiers organized without some kind of automation. Usage is just about the only metric they CAN track and have it even kind of resemble reality.

>>28741116
>Usage is just about the only metric they CAN track and have it even kind of resemble reality.
Wrong. If stuff that used to be on a lower tier while being healthy there gets used more on higher tiers and then it shouldn't be banned from the tier they previously used to be in.
It's a good (albeit lazy) way to keep shit like Talonflame from lower tiers, but there's no reason to ban stuff like Quagsire from UU for a month just for it to drop back down again.

>>28740532
Except that Jumpluff isn't good at all, fuck off with your 75% Arash

I appreciate they make tiers so my favorite shitmons are still viable in some way, but I also can't stand the mods' faggotry sometimes.

Bans sometimes don't even make sense and end up making things worse rather than helping. What's worse is that they won't stop shilling stalling and ban anything that easily disposes of common stallmons.

They are a group of devoted autists who spend their lives studying the online meta, which I appreciate having as a reference. What I don't like is the fact that they defend annoying strategies while banning ones they don't like facing or searching for better counters. The bias needs to be eliminated and then it'll be perfect.

>>28741165
What you said doesn't really contradict what I said. Any other metric they could follow would be so skewed or complex that it would be more trouble than its worth to base the tiers on, and probably wouldn't be as accurate. Usage is flawed, sure, for the reason you said, but it doesn't really get better than that if you based it on anything else.

>>28741179
In the STag ban defense, HO and batonpass with gothithelle where absolute bullshit.

I love to use hazard offense and gothithelle removing bulky mons or answers to mega Lopunny was enough to win me the match, this was achieved by using BP Lopunny as you get negative switching initiative, if people wanted to bring a pokemon to check lopunny they would switch out and meet Gothitrap or Bisharp as I get to switch after they send their Pokémon, I didn't had to predict the double switch, they where feeding me their lopunny checks in a silver platter.

Worst case scenario is that they stayed in and attacked, but with lopunny speed I get to BP freely into a check or wallbreaker.

BP Gothitrap was even worse, even after the 3 member clause you could use Gothitrap to eliminate wathever troubled your Espeon or Geopass giving the middle finger to wallbreakers, set up sweepers, unaware users, hazers, clear smog and dtail users.

Some bans are really deserved.

>>28741179
Would the game really suffer if they banned Eviolite Chansey? Blissey still walls special attackers without also eating up physical attacks

>>28741320
Banning the Chansey line is something Pokemon has needed since gen 3.

>>28741320
252 atk Diancie already bodies eviolite Chansey, lefties blissey is actually destroyed by lo latios and even zard Y.

So yes banning eviolite Chansey has big repercussions.

>>28740031

Yeah of course. Stay blind buddy.

>>28740996
I don't think you realize how many things SR keeps in check that would otherwise be uber. Besides, there is no luck involved in Stealth Rock, which is the reason why evasion was banned in the first place. Evasion doesn't keep anything in check and doesn't involve any skill, it's just jewing around with RNG hoping that it will work in your favor.

>>28741362
Wow, one Pokemon that's usually run as a mixed attacker can get rid of Chansey

that's totally enough

What happens on showdown when 90+new pokemon +new abilities and moves are introduced to the meta?

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I think a big problem is people who don't know any better get thrown by the wording

Like 'Banned' really just means they're in Ubers

People also don't really realize that there are options to play without things like evasion clause as well. There are options.

OU does not = Smogon

>>28738832
I don't have any problem with the system, le ebin b&, laddering, etc, I can see how it works fair and well. Not even meme-ing.

What I dislike is the 75% of the fucking people in it. Smogs have such shitty attitude behind the screen and irl. All the "GG means Git Gud!", "I only lost because you used eel-E-gal pokemon!!", "No way, 252 Timid Nidoking is the better set you fucking cuck.", "Timer is part of the game ja noob."

All around "No strong feelings".

>>28741404
Just one? What's mixed LO Thundurus, trick Rotom, specs Keldeo, mixed Hydreigon, Specs latios(yes people are actually running this now), mix Venusaur, mixed Tornadus T, traptran and with little hax RDTG Manaphy.

Loads of stuff body the blob already and they don't have to really run suboptimal sets to do so, superpower Tornadus T and Thundurus I already ran it for Heatran, Excadrill and Ttar.

>>28741463
There is no meta at the start of a gen. Literally everything is unbanned and anything is allowed for the first few days/weeks.
They ban the most broken shit at the start, and work their way from there.

>>28741502
So mega fug and arceus will be allowed?

>>28741515
Both will be allowed, yes, but they'll without a doubt be quick banned.

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>>28741483
I know literally nothing and I was just baiting for information

thanks and sorry

>>28739754
>explaing their bans
there are explenations? i thought its always 'we run a bunch of battles with it, it doesn't sit well with our playstyle, to ubers!"
so, why double team ban?

>>28740996
Because Aerial Ace deals with one issue (evasion), while defog clears away all entry hazards, screens, and the occasional safeguard.

The whole point of banning evasion is because people dont want to run aerial ace because it's a shit move and the game is more fun anyway without some brainless technique that that a retarded 5 year old could about as well as anyone else.

>>28741564
defo is suspectible to taunt on faster mons and encore from slower.

>>28741654
Yeah, but you could always just switch out or kill the thing that taunted you. With evasion, that's much harder to do, especially if the user of it has recovery or is bulky and can stall.

>>28741683
>haze
suspectible to taunt
>clear smog
beware steel.
>aeirial ace/ shokwave/etc
but they mmight be walls!
>roar
but taunt!

the list goes on actually, but if you let them build up that even a scarfed haze won't save you, you deserve the loss.

>>28741808
>Scarfed Haze
Nigger what?

Anyway, Haze and Roar are valid options, but are generally limited to walls. You could always run them on a sweeper, yes, but you'd lose out on valuable coverage needed to sweep.
Switching out your wall for a sweeper would be the best option, but the opponent could always just Double Team some more, and then the cycle would repeat.

Clear Smog is a lot like Haze, just with a more limited pool of viable Pokemon that can learn them. M-Venu and Amoonguss are the first that come to mind, along with several other poison types.
The problem again of them being mainly walls comes up, however. You could reasonable throw Clear Smog on a M-Venu, no doubt, but like the other sweepers it'd have to either drop coverage or a stronger STAB for it, and really, you need all the damage you can get if you're going offensive M-Venu.

Aerial/Shock/etc are just worthless almost entirely. Even if they opponents aren't walls, the damage is only base 90 accounting for STABs, hardly strong enough to KO out anything, even with hazards on your side.
Besides, if they're sweepers themselves, they could easily KO you with one of their moves. If they're walls, they can just stall and recover off your piddly damage.

Anyway, you should really be arguing this on Smogon if you're so adamant on evasion being allowed. I just wanted to throw in my two cents earlier there.

>>28741561
Double Team is banned because it's not fun to play against, plain and simple

after just 1 boost the entire game becomes a coinflip where you might be unable to do anything to the evading opponent

accuracy drops and confusion aren't banned because you can switch out to negate the effect, btw

>>28741994
>Double Team is banned because it's not fun to play against, plain and simple
Then why isn't stall banned then.

nobody has EVER liked evasion

Back in gen 2, not using it started out as a gentleman's agreement that eventually became standardized in tourneys. Smogon isn't the group that banned evasion, and you could argue that the game is fast enough now that evasion isn't even viable (which is true outside of minimize), but that wouldn't change that battling an 'evasion team' is both boring and irritating, which makes it a shitty tactic in a game played supposedly only for fun

>>28742070
Is that true? No evasion being more of an unspoken rule during Gen 2? I can't imagine trying to break through a SkarmBliss core that's also using Double Team.

>>28742059
I have no fucking clue.

>>28742092
Yeah, at first it wasn't banned but more and more as the generation went on, the GSBot tourneys started actually enforcing evasion clause, despite complaints by a select group

Pretty much everyone carried a hazer all the way into next gen partially due to PTSD I think

>>28742170
Interesting, I don't know much about the old battling formats before Smogon and VGC honestly.

Do you remember what some of the old Hazers were back then?

>>28742059
Because evasion isn't banned because it's "not fun", it's banned because it relies entirely on luck and doesn't involve any skill. An ape trained to click the Double Team button could win with enough luck.

Besides, how would you actually enforce a stall ban?

>>28742092
>>28742170
you can just kill them beore they set-up? but with no dt or baton pass, build up sets are heavily crippled while stall is the main one to enjoy this.

>>28742197
Hazers? Vaporeon, tentacruel are the ones I actively remember. So basically a handful of water types. The pool of actually usable pokemon wasn't large back then.

>>28742211
Well, we're talking about Gen 2 specifically here. SkarmBliss was the defensive combo back then, mixed attacker were rare and the Physical/Special split hadn't happened yet.
Gen 2 was literally the birth and peak of Stall as we know it.

>>28739823
>they don't want to go through the learning curve of countering.
Oh wow.
I bet you're one of those who say that Weavile is a Garchomp counter.

>>28742332
Sounds like not a lot of fun for the times evasion was used back then.

>>28740996
>They are a bit easier to avoid/clean up, still provide a means to play around switching, but most importantly, aren't typed in a way that does absurd amounts of unpreventable damage to specific mons.
They also don't affect Flying types and Levitation users. That's why Sneaky Pebbles exists.

>>28741072
But this is exactly why they are good. Tiers only say whether something is useful enough to exist in a large part of teams, which means that things with lesser usage due to whatever reason get grouped together, and allows tiers to change all the time. If they had power-based tiers, they would never change for obvious reasons and would have a few completely unusable Pokemon due to them being completely outclassed by something else or being plain shit (Articuno would be in one of the higher tiers for fuck's sake).
>>28741179
But anyone can influence Smogon's voting process - all they need to do is git fuckin gud. If there's a suspect test you find dumb going on, then get your rank high enough and you'll be eligible to give your opinion and vote on it.

>>28739754
>>28739925
>>28742392
Nice ad hom, shithead. This is why no one likes you beeyotch ass niqqas. MY board is for adults that can discus things intellectually and maturely. GTFO my board and kys, shill.

>>28742491
>But anyone can influence Smogon's voting process - all they need to do is git fuckin gud.
The actual issue is that, perversely, this isn't even true. You can be pretty fucking awful and still get to vote.
...but there's also an issue that the really good players also form delusional circlejerks.

>>28742501
(You)

I like it + Pokemon Showdown is my home + I love it = 53%
No strong feelings = 24%
I don't like it + I hate it + /vp/oreons XD = 25%

As suspected.

>>28742427
No fun at all, which is part of why most people were good about not actually using it, but some were pretty dead set on keeping it which resulted in some inter-site and straight up inter-personal drama IIRC

pokemon!

>>28742543
Look at the feeble-minded smogonqueer. Paralyzed in the face of facts, logic, and intellectuallism, all he can do is sling petty insults.

>>28742536
Start a thread, form a gang of anons, git gud and vote. Be the change you want to be my man, just need to organize and have your voice be heard with action.

>> 28742564
It was an accident. I was trying to do some fancy unicode stuff but it just reverted to a normal font in the end.
Fuck it all.

>>28742562
Did it ever get as bad as it does here? Or even worse?

>>28742612
Pretty much as bad, but with a bunch of smaller communities who all had their own internal tourneys who sometimes shit on each other.

Tone-wise it was more casual, there weren't like, really hardcore hundred-page arguments about pokemon like you see on smogon, there weren't enough people and the competition wasn't nearly as developed.

>>28742775
Never forget the fact that focus band ruins friendships.

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>>28742501
>>reddit

>>28738832
I like the simulators and meta, but sometimes the community is too ban-happy. I put No Strong Feelings.

>>28742445
Arena Trap also doesn't affect flying users.

Let's bring back Shadow Tag then.

>>28742205
So then why isn't confusion banned?

>>28739754
This desu, the rules/formats are fine and complaints are mostly just people who don't battle competitively not understanding how the meta works

The community on the other hand is full of cringey, wannabe 4channers and I hate the community here too but there really is no other decent place to talk about Pokemon

>>28740475
Jesus Christ, I thought Greninja was slow as shit, turns out he has 122 base speed.

>People actually listen to a fansite with made up "rules"
>People actually follow these "rules" and talk about them like they're more official than the game itself

>>28741561
Double Team and all other direct evasive moves are banned because using them is seen as uncompetitive in an overpowering sense. Having it so where you can easily have all moves miss outside of moves like swift is seen as giving too much control over the opponent. Stuff like Scald or Acupressure are not seen as uncompetitive in the same way because the effects are easier to deal with, has a lower chance to do an effect you want to inflict, it's not well distributed, or a combination of the three. With something like minimize or double team, you can pick a variety of Pokemon, spam it, switch when you get taunted, and keep spamming once you get back in after a whirlwind.

The problem is that you're kinda forced to use it.

You can't just enjoy playing without any rules in place. Then everyone just brings their le ebin legendary mega rayquaza, arceus etc. team.

On the other hand Smogon bans so much shit to try and preserve their fucking stealth rock stall meta that it makes me puke.

>>28742205
>Besides, how would you actually enforce a stall ban?

Ban direct recovery moves such as soft boiled or roost

Would improve the game immediately

>>28745045
>With something like stealth rock, you can pick a variety of Pokemon, only have to use it once, switch when you get taunted, and use it once when it's cleared after a rapid spin
Literally no way to argue in favor of Stealth Rock, and against Evasion or Swagger at the same time, without sounding like a retard.

File: loTDZFV.jpg (155KB, 1407x558px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 1407x558px

There's always that smug cunt who thinks he's better than you because he beats you because of one wrong prediction

>>28749053
>Talonflame likes to cosplay?!
top kek

File: 1451846294638.jpg (33KB, 264x271px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 264x271px

>>28740440
>non weaboo
>Pokemon

>>28743825
see: >>28742564