I feel that TMs should be limited

>>28579648
TMs being unlimited is for the benefit of online play.

It has fuck all to do with the main journey and it sure beats having to restart your game every time you need to farm the unique ones.

If you think it breaks the game in terms of single player, clearly you underestimate the idea of players that hoard them because they don't wanna waste them.

They block most of the actual good tms out until late or post game.

>>28579648
BW did this right.

You were really limited in your choices for TM's in the main game.

X and Y were just like fuck it, here's your good moves

Worst opinion I've ever heard on /vp/.

No.

On 4chan.

>>28579778
first post is once again best post

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>>28579648
TMs should have a use count of 3-10 depending on how good they are. But you should also be able to re-acquire any TM through the use of BP.

Perfect balance of both systems.

>>28579648
You can take your shitty opinion and go write a blog somewhere else. Fuck off.

>>28579854
that's not a good system, maybe make them one-use until you beat the e4, then they are unlimited

I never use TMs in-game because it makes it too easy anyway, but "re-acquiring any TM through the use of BP" is just an added hassle. They should be streamlining the game, not making you spend more time in menus talking to store clerks

>>28579648

TMs being limited didn't add any challenge to the game.

>>28580027
no but they did add an element of engagement and character to the process of making a team

>>28579903
>I never use TMs in-game because it makes it too easy anyway, but "re-acquiring any TM through the use of BP" is just an added hassle.
That's why you don't need to do it after every single use, there should be SOME hassle.

>>28579903
leveling pokemon is such a bother, why aren't they all fully evolved lvl 100 and max evs to start?

>>28580086

That's not a challenge, that's an inconvenience.

Tedium is not challenge. A challenge tests the player's skill, not their patience.

>>28579648
>Gen III Hoenn
>get TM26 (Earthquake) on Seafloor Cavern
>instantly make my Aggron to learn the move
>months later decided to update my team in a competitive one for battling ither people
>"Why I made Aggron to learn the move instead of Swampert!"
>from Gen II to Gen VI TMs can be passed as long as the one that learned the move is male
>Swampert is male
>no Ditto in Gen III Hoenn
Yeah, Unlimited TMs were the best thing that could happened.

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>>28580137
If acquiring BP isn't challenging ingame then what is?

>>28579648
No, sorry. Suggesting TMs need to be limited again is the most retarded suggestion possible.

It didn't give any coherent challenge, it's just an annoyance, tedious inconvenience.

>>28579648
If you have a team where all 6 members can ask use the same overpowered move, you've built your team wrong.

Or you're monotyping, whatever.

>>28580061
There was also a substantial portion of the playerbase that would simply never use them at all.

>>28579648
Idk man if you're slapping the same move on more than one member of your team its probably not a great idea (unless its a move integral to a strategy like baton pass or trick room)

>>28580061
Yeah, it really engaged me while I used PokeSav to get around doing the Battle Tower for 2 hours.

>>28580153

Battle Frontier/Subway/Maison isn't challenging, it's just cheap.

They're the epitome is artifical difficulty. No matter how built your team is, you have to pray that the AI doesn't hax you to death, which it eventually will.

Stupidest shit I've read today

>>28580061
No it didn't, it forced you to stick with mediocre to awful movepools unless you bred with no chance of having any mons use good shit.

Somehow this is an even worse opinion than the people who bitch about new EXP. Share. Just fucking turn it off and use Lucky Eggs instead.

>>28579648
Just make TMs have a recharge time thats counted in real time days or the step counter.

Make it so you still have to plan your singleplayer runs but multiplayer works just fine.

As long as they keep strong moves until lategame/postgame it's fine. It's obvious you never built a competitive team in old gens otherwise you would have no reservations about the change. It was just mindnumbing to have to buy a second cart just to do runs to collect ice beam and thunder bolt TMs.

>>28580153
>If acquiring BP isn't challenging ingame then what is?
Inconvenience and annoyance.

There's a difference between challenge and convoluted inconvenience.

>>28580215
Hey now, at least one of those things has unique gameplay and variety

>>28580215
See anon that's because, and this is kind of crazy I know.

The real challenge of Pokemon is PvP like any multiplayer game.

Shocking, I know.

Should just make the core gameplay harder instead of nerfing TM usage bullshit. Make the trainer battles actually a challenge rather than braindead AI using underlevel shit tier pokemon formula.

>>28580234
What purpose does that even serve though? Besides fake difficulty and needlessness?

It's like the way others use their bloody TMs bother you for some reason, and you're trying to make the method horribly convoluted.

>>28580248
>not answering the question
ok anon

people like you should just stick to Showdown honestly if you find the games so "inconvenient"

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>>28579648

>>28580215
I liked doing the Frontier/Tower/Maison/Subway

It was fun finding teams that were hax proof.

>>28579648
How 'bout you just use the TMs once

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TM's should be single-use and hidden throughout the main game.

Postgame, they should be infinitely re-usable.

I don't care what logical hoops need to be jumped through in order for that to happen, but from a gameplay standpoint, it's the best solution.

>>28580258
>Make the trainer battles actually a challenge rather than braindead AI using underlevel shit tier pokemon formula

I wish I could drill this not only into /vp/ but Game Freak's skulls.

XY were the worst in this, no fucking way should the Team Flare scientists have been so piss easy as they were. Fucking Gen 2/4 Rocket Admins were harder than them.

>>28579778
>If you think it breaks the game in terms of single player, clearly you underestimate the idea of players that hoard them because they don't wanna waste them.

This desu. I practically never made use of TMs prior to them becoming unlimited uses because I felt I should save it for something that really needed it. In the end most of them never got used.

If you're worried about challenge just self moderate your TM usage, OP. Even with them being unlimited I rarely make use of them outside of maybe giving my team a bit of extra type coverage it's lacking.

If the kiddies want to give every Pokemon Hyper Beam let 'em. They'll learn it's not the most effective way to build a team sooner or later.

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>>28580215

Isn't that why they added the bosses to those facilities?

I remember having a blast in Platinum's battle frontier because I wasn't just grinding, I was trying to make my way to the frontier brains. It's all about how you see it. Sure, you're doing the battle frontier for the BP as well, but the fact that there is a separate challenge/quest can quench it a bit

Unless you're already way past those, in which case I'm sorry

>>28580312
How 'bout you just use the TMs once

>>28580272
I answered your question. The Battle Frontier/Subway/what have you is less about difficulty and more about cheating AI and horrible RNG. It's not difficult. It's a hassle.

>people like you should just stick to Showdown
Never set foot into Showdown, and never plan on doing so either.

>if you find the games so "inconvenient"
The games themselves aren't inconvenient.

>>28579837
I want to add to this.
Yes I'm that mad.

Reusable TMs were a godsend.

I cannot believe there are people out there that think like you.

>>28580351
>I answered your question. The Battle Frontier/Subway/what have you is less about difficulty and more about cheating AI and horrible RNG. It's not difficult. It's a hassle.
No you didn't, my question was what is challenging in the game if not the frontier? New question, are you retarded?

I'm one of those people that simply didn't really use TMs a lot before because of them being limited, but abused the fuck out of it in White

Did it make the game easier than it would have otherwise been? I daresay yes. But it was also fun to actually feel free to mess with movesets and shit.

>>28580384
This is how you spot underage.
They always resort to namecalling.

I almost never used TMs before gen V.

I've been playing since RBY and the only pre-BW earthquake TM I ever used was on my toxicroak in Diamond.

It always felt like I might need them later, even though that only very rarely turned out to be the case.

>>28580312
This is what I was about to suggest
Keep the challenge for the main game and then after you beat the E4 or whatever Sun and Moon have then unlimited

>>28579648
I bet you'll be compaining when Sun and Moon remove HMs as well.

>>28580403
>still won't answer
ahahaha

you're in the wrong place if you want to focus on namecalling rather than the actual discussion

>>28579648

I hate limited TM.

Such waste of time.

>>28580312
>>28580415

>The national pokedex is kind of a cheap shit that burns TMs when utilizing them

>The national pokedex is made with better tech so they're reusable

Did I fix it?

>>28580431

Listen nigga you started out with good points and then started to suck cocks in the middle of the argument

kys

>>28579648
For me, TMs used to be like what PP Maxes/PP ups are now.
I'd never use them because I was afraid that in the future I'd find a shiny or a better pokemon or something, and the TM would be wasted. Does that make the game easier? A bit, yes.
Does it make it less tedious? Yes, the games are much, much less tedious than they used to be.

>>28580142
Ditto were in Emerald.

>>28580415
How 'bout you just use the TMs once

I didn't pick up pokemon so I practice resource managment.

I want to have fun ice beaming shit on every thing

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>>28580384
The games aren't challenging at all, but I don't believe there is any reason to limit the use of TMs in any way. If you limit the use of TMs, then people won't want to use them in order to not waste them.

The implementation of unlimited uses for TMs was one of the best things they've done, since it means you don't have to worry about wasting a TM and regretting it.

I honestly don't see what this even solves by wanting the TMs to be limited in some way again. Why does it matter how others really use them? You're making an issue out of practically nothing here all because you desire 'difficulty and challenge'.

Would it be nice if there was a bit more (Or even any) challenge in the games that was worthwhile? Sure. However, meddling with the usage of TMs doesn't do anything for that. It doesn't provide any correlation. Instead of limiting the use, they should simply work on the location of certain ones more.

>New question, are you retarded?
I'm wasting my time here on /vp/. I might as well be.

>>28579648
Making TMs unlimited was the second best change in the series, right behind the physical special split.

Prove me wrong.

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>>28580454
>Listen nigga you started out with good points and then started to suck cocks in the middle of the argument
>STILL
>WONT
>ANSWER
>complains about name calling and then does the same
ayyyyyyyyyyyyy

>>28580505
>The games aren't challenging at all
There it is.
If the games aren't challenging at all, what does it matter if TMs are limited? You don't need them to breeze through the game. The people who want them to be unlimited are the people who mistake the games for a battle simulator. Play Showdown if that's what you're into.

>>28580444
>>28580444
THESE TRIPS
DO
NOT
LIE

>>28580529

Different person bruv, you want >>28580505

>>28580505
I'd like for the games to be challenging, but it's not possible with the AI. Some kind of reward system for multiplayer would be nice though.

>>28580529
Hey, hey, Anon. You're speaking to two different people in all of this confusing mess of nonsensical delight. I'm the over here >>28580505

I agree with you that the main game isn't challenging at all. However, I don't think TMs are the thing that need to factor into any of this at all. They really don't take away any challenge, nor do they provide any challenge. They're a non-issue.

>WAHH exp share makes the game too easy!
>THANK ARCEUS EVERYONE ON MY TEAM CAN NOW HAVE EARTHQUAKE

>>28580558
>If the games aren't challenging at all, what does it matter if TMs are limited?
Because multiplayer is a thing anon.

A better question is, what does making them limited again achieve when you can have the same result as them not being there by simply not using them?
You'd probably do the same thing in pre gen 5 games anyway.

>>28580639

No one in this thread made any mention about that, and those are two different issues, with two different results, discussed in two different ways by different people. Begone with that bait of yours.

>>28580668
Anyone who seriously plays the games for the multiplayer when battle simulators exists, then complains about inconvenience is so supremely retarded I don't have words for it.

>>28580912
I know this may be a foreign concept to you but there's these things people have called friends?
They're people who also play the same games you do, converse with and sometimes hold parties with.

Sometimes these friends like to play more than just the bare essentials and TMs being infinite help in that regard because they don't have to continuously grind for them just for a match.

>>28579648
Making tms unlimited is what made them actually useful. Before gen 5 i'd seldom use them. Now even the less powerful ones (aerial ace, charge beam, Rock Tomb, etc.) could potentially get some temporary utility until better attacks become available at later levels/with later tms, whereas before i'd always hold out for the later attacks since it'd be a waste to use a tm only to delete the move later.