/plg/ - Pokemon Lore General

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reposting azoth alchemy notes:

Azoth is the single force -- the "spiritus animatis," as Wikipedia puts it -- of humanity that drives it to attain physical and spiritual perfection. Not only this, the Azoth seems to also have a physical incarnation as the "Elixir of Life" or "The Universal Solvent," and was known as the cure for any mental, spiritual, or physical ailment. Essentially, it's liquid perfection.

Another thing of note is that Azoth's name was constructed from the first and last letters of the Latin, Greek, and Hebrew alphabets, in that order: A/Alpha/Aleph, Z, Omega, and Tau, which ties in to the "Beginning and End" motif present in AZ, and Alpha and Omega.

Additionally, Azoth is another, less used name for the chemical Mercury, which is a part of a very significant trio in alchemy, with the other members being salt and sulfur. The chemical symbols of all three can be seen within the starter Pokemon, as shown in pic related.

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the richard guide

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>>28568909

reposting alchemy

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Reposting flower names.

I put some of this in the last thread but here's more.

What if Xerneas and Yveltal represent Biological components, while Lunala and Solgaleo represent the Inorganic components. Life and Death to Homeostatis, and the Ghost and the Shell to the computer (not quite as distinct). Then Zygarde is the Biocomputer linking the tech and organic components.

>>28570066
Sorry, this is my first time posting a theory. Also, I'm not Richard.

>>28570066
I'll scratch the Shell part in that metaphor and make it the Machine, and as it refers to the Ghost(Mind) and Machine(Body)

I'm kind of surprised that the threads died down despite generations parts 1 and 2

>>28571338
maybe it's because of them

>>28571338
I think Perfect Zygarde showing up in a shitty cameo killed the buzz for loregen/erations. I know a few people were talking about what it would mean. Guess it means nothing.

>>28572169
The only lore related thing was looker for the most part

>>28568909
>hating rodolfo

It seems these threads are going to be a bit slow until next week's trailer, what with all the news for this week being revealed in CoroCoro's leak on Monday. It's something to look forward to, sure, but there isn't much of anything to discuss that hasn't already been covered.

Ok so. Pokémon Generations has finally premiered. I'm the guy that did the trailer breakdown a few threads back.

>Episode 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHxZpk_hvJA

>Episode 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeX5GzN03AU

Ok, so... There's not TOO much to discuss. The first thing worth noting is that all of the Red stuff in the trailer? That's basically the entire first episode. Regigigas, Zygarde, it's all just an action montage of Red's adventures. Also, the implication of Red picking Bulbasaur made the episode very dubiously canon. It was more of just an action montage to celebrate the past 6 Generations. Nothing worth analyzing for information.

So all of the discussion about Regigigas and Zygarde, well... It doesn't look like they're going to be important at all. Maybe in later episodes.

HOWEVER, the good news;

>I was half right about the Looker episode. He WAS the protagonist, and he was looking for Giovanni, but this is set earlier in the timeline than I thought.
>The trailer shows Giovanni in his HG/SS outfit, so this story is going to be continued in a later episode. Possibly following the events of HG/SS next time.
>(Also I love the idea that Looker is in Kanto one step behind Red in stopping Team Rocket.)
>(This is what I was hoping for; an expansion on the games, not an adaptation!)
>It's also worth noting that it looks like the trailer only used clips from literally the first half-dozen episodes.
>Which means there is a LOT about this series we don't know about yet, more so than we previously thought.

>>28574649
My final thought is that Generations is 10x better than Origins, and 20x better than the main anime. I went in with low expectations, and while I was slightly let down that Regigigas's scene was just part of an action montage, the Looker episode made me realize this was what I've always wanted in a Pokémon show. Short, sweet, expanding on what we know from the games. I want this to become an annual thing, but if we only ever get these 18 episodes, I am sure I will love them and the community will cherish them forever.

What are you thoughts, guys? Did you enjoy it? Let down? What stories are you hoping for in the future? Who are you hoping will show up?

My hopes are;

>Elesa and Skyla episode
>Episode with Roxie and her father, or possibly showing what happened when Roxie ran off to fight Plasma
>Episode with Sabrina and Brycen (and maybe Rosa/Nate/Diantha) filming a movie at PokéStar Studios
>Episode showing the Original Dragon

As you can tell, all my hopes are expansions on B2/W2. I personally feel that there is the most potential there for some good shit, but you may feel differently. Thoughts?

>>28574722
I found episode 2 to be much better since episode 1 seems to be a montage.

If there's episodes that are similar to episode 2 then I could enjoy this.

>>28574722
If they touch on BW they better showcase the BW1 protags.

They can do fuck all else with Unova, just give us Hilda and Hilbert anime versions.

>>28574902
Any girl who shows up is likely going to get an influx of rule 34 so we should hope for as many PokéGirls as possible.

For real though, I agree. B2/W2 mentions N looking for Hilda/Hilbert, and their mother says they're still looking for N. We need to see them reunite. They're debatebly the most important protagonists in the entire series, so I think it's likely. Especially because, other than Gen 1 (Red), Gen 5 was the only time the protagonists didn't get an anime counterpart. So they totally have a clean slate for Hilda/Hilbert/Rosa/Nate. They're the most likely to show up, compared to May or Serena who I think are very unlikely.

>>28574785
I think Episode 1 was just an introduction montage. The rest of the show will follow the short story format.

>>28574902
>>28575013

Them showing the protags will be the make or break for me

>>28573784
bump

>>28574649
>>It's also worth noting that it looks like the trailer only used clips from literally the first half-dozen episodes.
>>Which means there is a LOT about this series we don't know about yet, more so than we previously thought.
That sounds great.

I'm kind of sad it can't go along with Origins, it would have worked perfectly, but they don't care about details apparently.

>>28575013
>Especially because, other than Gen 1 (Red), Gen 5 was the only time the protagonists didn't get an anime counterpart.
Ash is Red's anime counterpart.

Also I feel like they wanted the Red in the first episode to be like the player and not the character itself, considering the name and that he travels trough all of the regions. It's weird though.

when will giovanni come back

Reposting the links between the alchemical triangle, Solgaleo, Lunala, Zygarde, and the Zygarde Cube, with said triangle being in >>28569827 's Pic related because of duplication, sorry for inconvenience:

From >>28346446
>Anima is the sun
>Spiritus is the moon
>Corpus just has a cube to represent it, and the "arrow" that contains the symbol is pointing down
So is the Corpus legendary Earth or something?

From >>28346536

>>28346446
Literally Zygarde

Azoth = 5 planets (5 mons) + Sun/soul + Moon/spirit + physical hermaphrodite body (perfect Z, which have red (Yveltal, Y chromosome) and blue (Xerneas, X chromosome) wings)

Azoth = Solgaleo + Lunala + Zygarde + Xerneas + Yveltal

>>28577795
>when will giovanni come back
Yeah, we pretty much know for a fact he is showing up at least one more time. There's a shot in the trailer that doesn't seem to be in that episode. Either next episode as a direct continuation, or later in the show completely.

>I'm kind of sad it can't go along with Origins, it would have worked perfectly
No reason to say it isn't. Red got all the Pokémon in Origins. Everybody is jumping on the fact that Red has Bulbasaur in Generations, but started with Charmander in Origins. But everybody is forgetting that he had to have had a Bulbasaur at some point. This may also be a way of Game Freak saying "it doesn't matter, no starter is the right one" and that Red's Journey continues like normal no matter what. Especially considering the fact that he is uses Pikachu, implying that he now has his final HG/SS team, aka every Starter in Kanto.

So yeah, don't think on it too much.

>>28577931
>5 planet = 5 pokemon

>You should update this

>reposting about Aether and UB
>Aether = space
>Gladion looks like Expansion, Mars' UB
>Lusamine looks like Beauty, Venus' UB
>>28499494
>>28499801

Also "Gladion" is named after "gladiolus", of latin "gladius", a roman sword

>Aether fundation = "space fundation"
>Lusamine = Venus = UB02 Beauty
>Faba = Saturn/Jupiter = UB0X ???
>Wacka = Jupiter/Saturn =UB0X ???
>Lillie = Mercury = UB01 ???
>Gladion = Mars = UB02 Expasion


Ultrabeast are confirmed to be hyperspatial pokemon from other dimension >>28494185

BUT Sinnoh lore states that humans ARE pokemon. Maybe in that dimension, some pokemon don't go through a darwinian evolution to humans... but evolve to ultrabeast? Expasion is the Gladion's counterpart, Beauty is the Lusamine's, etc

>>28577938
thats not what im talking about you idiotic nigger faggot. I'm talking about the games

>>28577984
Jesus Christ. Calm the fuck down.

We were JUST talking about Generations which JUST ended with Giovanni leaving. How the fuck can you get so mad over a mistake that probably every other anon on 4chan would have made?

And to answer your question, hopefully never.

>>28577938
Second half of this is meant for >>28577770

>>28577938
>But everybody is forgetting that he had to have had a Bulbasaur at some point.
Yeah, he also had more than 0 badges and 3 Pokémon in the Pokédex though.

>>28578103
Ah, lame. Oh well. Parallel universes, and whatnot.

Of all the 18 types, I find Poison to be the one I can connect to the least, other than Normal. I can find something good about all of them other than those two. Well, Normal pretty much gets to encompass all the other types in some aspect, but it's a Jack of all Trades, Master of None sort of deal. Poison is something inherently dangerous, I can't find the good in it other than the sort of sting before the medicine starts to work sort of deal. I can also see it being inhibition, a force that's there to stop you from doing something that is more harmful. In a way, it is more cruel than Dark, but it is necessary.

>>28574649
>Also, the implication of Red picking Bulbasaur made the episode very dubiously canon

Well duh it's not canon. Though it's a nice extension of lore.

>Thoughts
It was fine. Better than the anime and Origins. Red boner for the third damn time, but whatever. Would have preferred someone other than Looker in Kanto but also whatever. Excited for more. Pikachu's voice was shit. Mad Ecruteak had no autumn trees. Probopass was GOAT

>Hopes
Johto. Johto gets plenty of background lore (probably some of the most, honestly), but the nature of the region and legendaries means that it probably has the least "overt" lore sequences. So I want a lot of Johto. I wanna see big events. But I'm afraid that we'll end up with like, 2 out of the 18 episode being about it because everyone seems to hate making Johto content with GF seemingly hating Johto the most.

>>28578231
I always see people hate Normal, but it's one of my favourite types. It always has some very interesting Pokemon.

>>28578385
I know Normal can be very useful, but it just doesn't appeal to me. Then again, that is the one thing that destroys my theory on that. If you've just picked out pokemon you like for whatever reason, then there could be many reasons why you like them, and it could have nothing to do with what their power represents. Still, I like to believe our pokemon are a reflection of ourselves in some way.

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>reminder
Green pokemon = Red
Red pokemon = Green

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>>28568909
Bump.

Could a group of Unown (let's say an Alphabet, assuming this probably a standard group) beat Dialga or Palkia?

>>28580324
No. Disable a few of 'em, and they lose a lot of their power.

>>28580324
I remember that there was a rumour in elementary school that if you put all different Unown with Mewtwo and Mew in the same box on the PC the pokemon god would appear.
A few years later there actually would be a pokegod.

>>28580590
I mean, its technically correct

>>28580372
But would they be able to disable any? I mean, Unown seem to be Giratina dimension creation levels. Taking down a few from the collective wouldn't be easy

>>28580590

i-it kinda all comes together?

>>28577967
Sinnoh lore states that at one point, there was no difference. But those days are long past.

>>28584610
The context suggests it has nothing to do with genetics. Just that they were once treated as equals. I'm unsure what they're talking about. There ARE civilizations that live as one with pokemon. Even the 4th gen itself has one. (Unfortunately, I can only trace the implication back to the 2nd gen, it doesn't happen at all in the first gen) I guess it's more the matter of EVERYONE once thinking that way.

>>28585543
Also was toned down in English release, where it was only "lived together as equal" vs the original line of "they married".

How about a link to the original art?
http://arkeis-pokemon.deviantart.com/art/Ancient-Temple-310299047

>>28582384
>>28581385
Wait, how is it correct?
Did I miss something?

>>28585563
Come to think of it, this implies something I never thought of. Humans didn't come from just one pokemon, but ALL of them. How THAT is possible, I don't know. Apparently, this franchise wants to believe in crazy magical being formed into existence sort of deals. We're the crazy chimera born of mating outside of the barriers, or of developing the ability to mate outside the barriers.

>>28580590
Makes me wonder actually: Arceus used the Unown to create the universe and thus shares a connection with them but Suicune is also said to share a mystical connection with the Unown.
Does Suicune have a special connection with Arceus, too?

It would be cool if we ever got to know more about the Unown themselves.

>>28585730
I mean, Arceus and Unown are related, and predates Mew.

>>28586136
What exactly is the connection to Suicune?

>>28585543
>There ARE civilizations that live as one with pokemon. Even the 4th gen itself has one.
??????

>>28586730
Hearthome City.

>>28586659
>predates Mew

Nothing ever officially said that.

>>28586659
It is actually not specified.
It is mentioned once in the Ruins of Alph that they share a connection and are also both featured in the intro of crystal together. Other than that there isn't really anything about it.
The ruins are already a sketchy place. Onepuzzle mentions a statue but there are several statues.
I hope there actually will be something regarding that one day. It's just wasted potential.

>>28587120
The Unown appear during the egg's creation

>>28586757
unown are obviously extensions of arceus. they are the 1000 arms.

>>28587209
I was talking about Suicune and the Unown.

I don't know what the Unown are, other than a manifestation of the idea of communication. Of turning thought into a form understandable to others. However, as I say that, I realize this is the only "ordinary" pokemon I would say that for. Only important legends otherwise are a manifestation. However, this power would only arise if there became a need for it to exist. Pokemon regardless of species seem to understand each other, even legends. It must be something exclusive to humans.

>>28587477
Now that you mention it, I once read somewhere that Suicune is based on the Qilin whose fur pattern said to be the origin of chinese writing.

Maybe Suicune is meant to protect the Unown?
You know, if you look at the main games: Wherever you can catch Unown, there is always a body of water nearby. The only exception is Solacean Town - but the two routes bordering it both have water.

>>28585543
>a game for kids states that you could live, marry, fuck and basically anything you do with another human... with pokemon
>pokemon and humans were the same thing
>so humans are pokemon too, even if evolution has separated them a bit

>pokemon are equivalent to real world animals also they evolve too (real evolution, not metamorphosis)
>real humans are animals too, even if evolution has separated us a bit


>The context suggests it has nothing to do with genetics

You're so wrong

>>28587919
And just one more thing: Suicune is said to be the reincarnation/embodiment of north winds. The Sinjoh-Ruins and Sinnoh are to the north of Jotho.
Route 210, north to Solaceon Town, is also foggy.

Maybe I am over-analysing this but maybe Suicune is actually meant to protect the Unown?
It also has a special connection with Ho-Oh.
I wonder...

>>28586757
Several things officially state that dude.

>>28587120
One thing I hope from SM is more Unown lore at the obligatiory ruins. Though Kalos had none and Unova's were underwater. Unless Desert Resort counts

>>28589624
>obligatory

>>28589723
>Ruins of Alph

And my argument already falls apart when I realize Hoenn has no ruins.

For some reason I assumed every region had ruins except Kanto

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Asked this here >>>28589637

But What's the Ranking for Legendary Pokemon, In Pokemon Lore?

Is ranked Zygarde ahead of most Trios due to it being a Protector of Balance and having such command of Life/Death, and possibly Solar/Lunar Cycles?

Could Marshadow be the Giratina of these groups, being the embodiment of Chaos/Disorder that is unleashed or created through the Cover Legendary's manipulation?

[Spoiler]CopyPasta[/Spoiler]

>>28589809
People really give way too much credit to Zygarde, and the Kalos Box legends. We have no idea how their connection to life and death works. And plenty of Legends exist to keep balance and protect things.

>>28589759
Actually the caverns that contain the regis can be considered ruins. It's just by Gen 3, they stopped using unown for ancient writings and switched to braille instead.

>>28589759
Well, there are the Tanoby Ruins, which are on the Sevii Islands (which are also surrounded by water).

So, maybe no connection between Suicune and Arceus?
Maybe if we had a more detailed timeline it would make sense.
However I thought, HGSS and DPPT happen at the same time.

>>28577938
Giovanni's gym has the same design as origins and has some battle damage in the middle similar to where Red's Charizard used seismic toss.

>>28589809
Ranking for legendaries, I believe, only has to do with function. I don't believe they are any more or less powerful than each other, just that they have different stations. I still don't believe anything for Rayquaza, though. It should be equal to Groudon and Kyogre, controlling the third domain.

>>28589975
If that's the case then yes, Ruins of Alph, Regi Ruins, Tanoby Ruins, Solacon Ruins, Desert Resort/Abysall Ruins......Lost Hotel? God Kalos has fucking nothing.

But yeah, every region besides Kanto and Kalos has Ruins. Even Sevii. I'd say its more likely than not that Alola will have some

>>28590012
Around the same time. In the post game of Johto, Jasmine talks about going to Sinnoh. Its commonly thought that the Sinnoh games start when Ethan/Lyra get to the Lake of Rage.

>>28589975
Makes me wonder if Braille was used as a separate language altogether in the Pokemon world rather than just English for blind people

>>28590103
It literally took them out with one hit in the anime, the game also said it straight up beat them.

>>28590103
>>28589968
>Zygarde monitors for destruction of the planet and watches for unbalance in Life and Death.
>Zygarde saw that the Weapon was activated, but neither did it cause an explosion of Life, nor an over abundance of Death.
>So it didn't act, because it didn't effect the balance of Life or Death greatly, nor damage the planet.

>Groudon and Kyogre started disrupting balance between their Elements.
>Rayquaza appeared and stopped them before it got out of control.

>>28590118
>Makes me wonder if Braille was used as a separate language altogether in the Pokemon world rather than just English for blind people

The Events of FRLG and RSE happen around the same time. HGSS and DPPT happen both at the sae time but later.
Maybe the Unown were somehow set free during HGSS and that is why they don't use Unown for writing there?
Maybe this all goes deeper?
I've never played any Gen 3 game, so I don't know whether they were used somewhere else.

So you're going to say all the Mew vs Arceus debates are pure bullshit?

>>28590377
>Arceus is God, thus creating Mew.
>Mew is the Adam/Eve of Pokemon.
?

>>28590118
>Makes me wonder if Braille was used as a separate language altogether in the Pokemon world rather than just English for blind people

I was thinking the same thing
Also, if the braille exist, can we assume there are other Unowns that rapresent it?

reposting >>28560913
>>28553385
If we take Zygarde as being one of the oldest beings on the planet and serves only to protect the planet, then only Cyrus would actually make sense for him to intervene.

The planet is a fucking tough bitch to kill off. You get extinction catastrophes, you get enormous climate changing events, but in the end the planet will remain, and life will eventually find a way to rebuild a brand new ecosystem.

Groudon/Kyogre wouldn't destroy the world, just force the living species to adapt to a new desert/ocean world. Zygarde has no reason to interfere, since life will just continue in a different way.

N and Ghetsis were in no way a threat to the planet or the environment, and neither was Lysandre in the long run.

The meteor is nothing the planet hasn't experienced before (assuming the Pokemon world went through a similar extinction event to get rid of what would became the fossil Pokemon), and hasn't bounced back already.

It's possible that Zygarde, after seeing its planet bounce up and down from all sorts of shit, has decided "why should I care if some human wants to kill 50% of life on the planet/if humans are polluting shit/if another legendary is going crazy, if everything will reset in a few million years anyway?"

Though, again, no excuse for not stepping in against Cyrus, except for the fact Zygarde likely didn't exist inside a crazy Japanese man's head at the time.

The only thing I am certain of is that Yveltal's presence is the limit. Below that, you must have only a temporary existence.

>>28590565
reposting more

>>28560981
This.
Shit.

Also, Zygarde it had no way of knowing about Cyrus's purpose
He's just a guy who appears, summon Dialga/Palkia and... is defeated 15 minutes later


>>28561153
>Zygarde had no way of knowing about Cyrus's purpose
That can be argued, but is heavily reliant on exactly HOW Zygarde can tell if the ecosystem is under threat.

Is it only in tune with stuff like plants and the soil, and can only notice a threat if those are things being threatened? Then no, Cyrus would fly right under his radar since Team Galactic did nothing to affect the environment in any way.

However, if Zygarde is in some way empathic, then Cyrus's experiments on the Lake Trio should have raised a red flag or two on the big guy. GIven that the Lake Trio were literally responsible for freewill, their agony should have been "louder", so to speak, and more noteworthy than the Pokemon used to power Lysandre's death flower.

>>28590324
It didn't act because GF was planning to do more but didn't. I think were are coming up with lore reasons for the game not having everything it was supposed to

>>28590375
I mean, the Unown are at Tanoby Ruins in Sevii which means they exist during ORAS times, so that can't be it

Maybe Braille is Pokemon speak and the normal alphabet is human speak.

Maybe there's braille Unown (more likely) and we have Unown for every language, like the anime.

>>28590544
I'd say so

>>28590565
I would say the Meteor was worth intervening, but it doesn't want to step into Fug's territory

Like how Ho-oh and Fug are sky guardians at the same time

>>28590591

Zygarde wouldn't have been able to sense anything in particular from the Lake Trio. Their aspects are only shared with humans.

>>28590565
>>28590591
tldr: Zygarde wasn't created back then. Stop trying to give it roles that's beyond what it's circle of influence is

>>28590565
>>28590591
That was an A+ thread btw. That is what /vp/ should be like more often.

>>28590759
I agree with this, but at the same time legendary roles aren't usually contradictory despite coning later, outside giving us multiple Mons with similar roles.

Like the Ho-oh, Rayquaza sky guardians or the Manaphy, Lugia sea guardians

>>28590591
>However, if Zygarde is in some way empathic, then Cyrus's experiments on the Lake Trio should have raised a red flag or two on the big guy. GIven that the Lake Trio were literally responsible for freewill, their agony should have been "louder", so to speak, and more noteworthy than the Pokemon used to power Lysandre's death flower.

Zygarde's job is to make sure the Ecosystem doesn't go to shit, the feelings of the Lake Trio wouldn't have been a issue due to them being irreverent to his job.
Now if the plans of resetting the Universe would've actually started, then Zygarde or even Arceus would've stopped it, but Giratina stopped it in Platinum.

Which means that:
>Zygarde is Watcher of Earth/Ecosystem.
>Raymond is Watcher of Climate/Weather.
>Giratina is Watcher of Dimensional affairs.

>>28590759
Then nothing is related to each other beyond the scope of their generation, you can all go home no...*Regigigas* Wait a minute...

>>28590834
ORAS seemed to be a soft reset, as it at least tries to relate to XY, maybe you shouldn't count old gens that will only leave plotholes everywhere.

>>28590716
>Like how Ho-oh and Fug are sky guardians at the same time

Fug is more about balance. He just dicks around in the sky until Whale and It'sfuckingnothing decide to fight. Ho Oh's more of a guardian which is why he gets a tower near a town. And the Kimono girls to act as...I guess to act as priests more or less.

>>28590873
Plus Lugia and Ho Oh had nothing to do with the Villain's plot nor had any time of "Special Power" that could end the Rule.

Then again, Team Rocket was more "Of the World", than "In the World", so destroying it would've only hurts them are there would be no need for money if they aimed for World/Universal Destruction.

>>28590934
>Type*
>World*

Fucking Auto Correct.

>>28590012
OK, I have to bring up Suicune again.
I you watch the intro sequence of crystal doesn't it look like the Unown are calling out for it?

>>28590860
ORAS is a soft reset, but the whole point of adding "soft" is that the old stuff still matters. Gen 5 is also a soft reset.

>>28590873
True. I remember Ho-oh has Bell Tower and Rayquaza has Embedded Tower. Both in Johto. Now I wonder which one was built first.

Also think Ho-oh guards stuff lower in the atmosphere, which is why it got involved in Pokemon dying in a fire in the ground, while Ray is more about the Ozone, so he goes after Deoxsys.

>>28590821
The idea behind the "red flag" was something to the style of:
>three of the most ancient Pokemon alive are being placed in horrible agony
>all three of them at the exact same time, something that has likely never happened before in history
>maybe stepping in just for a quick check to see if everything was fine would be a smart idea
But, yes, I wasn't trying to say the Lake Trio being under stress was something Zygarde should have immediately gone and check out, just that it maybe wouldn't have gone unnoticed to him.

Although another anon later in the thread pointed out that Zygarde's sole job was to monitor life and death, which I agreed with, making my empathic theory mostly useless.

>>28590721
You make a good point there, but it has been a common headcanon among the fandom that humans are just a different species of Pokemon.

There's a thought: the Lake Trio basically acted as the Monolith from 2001, giving humans the intelligence and skills needed to evolve beyond basic Pokemon instinct.

>>28591180
Rayquaza also flies off to space for god knows what reason

>>28591281
Found it!
>"The way I see it, our world began when the spirit within people was born. When that spirit came to be, there followed awareness about the world. Within the newborn spirit, time and space were intertwined as one."
>"People and Pokémon, too, were but the same presence. As I understand it, people and Pokémon shared the spirit and awareness. They should have understood and accepted each other then. Because they shared the same spirit, people and Pokémon intermingled. People took the place of Pokémon, and the opposite also held true."
I knew there was a reason I thought Gen 4 practically confirmed the "humans are/were Pokemon at some point" theory.

>reading up on this event
>come across this:
>"The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."
>"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."
>"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."

>defeated giants
>Arceus probably defeated some ancient powerful creatures at the beginning of the universe to create the plates
...Ultra-beasts, maybe?

God I fucking love Gen 4's lore.

>>28591180
The Embedded Tower looks older. Maybe it's a precursor race or something.
>>28591281
>>28591472
>You make a good point there, but it has been a common headcanon among the fandom that humans are just a different species of Pokemon.

Has anyone here heard of Shudou Takeshi's draft of the third movie where scientists discover a t-rex fossil? Not a T-rex like pokemon, an actual t-rex. In his mind there used to be real world animals but they went extinct.

I just want to know what you guys think of that. Do you think it's a plausible theory? It does explain why we have plants and plant pokemon which are seen as different from each other.
>>28591292
Protect us from aliens?

Hey we have confirmed space pokemon.

>>28591472

>"The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."
>"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."
>"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."

>"The way I see it, our world began when the spirit within people was born. When that spirit came to be, there followed awareness about the world. Within the newborn spirit, time and space were intertwined as one."

It may seem odd but this sounds to me as if Arceus did not in fact create the universe but was created by the consciousness of humans. As if intelligence gave them the power to create their own deity stronger than themselves.

Did Cynthia come to the Sinjoh-Ruins before or after the events of Diamond/Pearl/Platinum?
Or can anything be said about it at all?
It was an event after all.

>>28592633
Diamond/Pearl begins after you meet the shiny Gyarados, and the TV thing does happen in Platinum, though we don't know exactly when. So I assume after?

>>28592700
how do you know this?

>>28592700
Wait, you mean the explosion you see on TV in the library?

>>28592700
Cynthia also says that she feels a strong power similar to Giratina, Palkia or Dialga. I know she was aware of their existence in Platinum but had she encountered them before?

>>28592754
>>28592872
Maybe you only played Platinum, but the TV thing at the beginning in Diamond and Pearl doesn't talk about Rowan coming back to Sinnoh, it talks about that event in particular. Later on, two NPCs reference it.

>>28591511
>In his mind there used to be real world animals but they went extinct.

It would make sense if Pokémon came from an another planet. Some probably barely changed like Clefairy and some adapted and became Grass-types, and whatnot. It's tough to say how they came to Earth though. Maybe they were just one or only a few species like, say, Mew.

>>28592633
>>28592700
HGSS starts before DPPt, but the Sinjoh thing us HGSS post game.

Probably still before though

>>28594627
I just remembered, when you talk to her in those ruins in her home town she says that she isn't sure what is supposed to depict. This is also post-game.

There she says something rather interesting however:
>May I say one last bit? A long time ago, I wonder what sort of person painted this?
>Dialga's Roar of Time...Palkia's Spacial Rend...
>To the people back then, those Pokémon really must have appeared to rule over time and space.
>Seeing them must have shaken the people to their very core.
>This painting represents those feelings of awe, wonder, and everything else.
>It passed that memory to countless people, eventually becoming a myth...

At this point she is actually still questioning the power of the trio. And then at the Sinjoh Ruins Event she says that the when it climbed upon the Mystri Stage the time, space, and anti-matter were created.
Could the Mystri Stage have existed before Arceus had existed?

>>28595778
>>28595954
orre edition lore

>>28569921
Do most of these flowers have any symbolism behind them?
It could just be a gimmick to distinguish imporrtant characters from not so important ones.

>>28596307
In the Japanese version, almost all the important NPCs have names that relate to trees, flowers, plants or even fruit and veggies. I think it's just been more apparently lately because more and more of them are getting their names preserved or at least referenced in the English version.

Even in gen 1, the Gym Leaders had plant names. Some of them just happened to double as puns on their preferred type, which is the direction they took the English names basically up until gen 6, it seems.

>>28595893
I mean, its stated that the universe started at Sinnoh, right? Maybe that's where the egg hatched.

>>28597541
If the Trysti Stage is where the universe started, was the palace built around it?
But why isn't it there, then?
Maybe humans stopped believing in it and it left?
Or could it be that something was about to happen that made it leave? To be able to return and reshape the universe?
But if the stage existed prior to Arceus - Arceus can't be god.
Is Arceus the last survivor of a universe that doesn't exist anymore?

>>28598459
*Mystri Stage
Also:
>"The Original One breathed alone before the universe came."
>"When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate."
>"The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate."
Is Arceus the lone survivorr of the apocalypse and the plates are last traces left of the old universe?

>>28598459
I mean, the egg and stage existing and Arceus hatching and creating everything around it seems likely. Maybe he made the stage before hatching so he has a place to be? Who knows.

As for why it would leave Sinjoh to go to Sinnoh....no idea. Could be a "want to go to high ground" thing, but Jo idea what made it chose Coronet over the seemingly similarly high Silver.

>>28598894
>Maybe he made the stage before hatching so he has a place to be?
It'ss possible but would it have it's powers while being an egg?

How high are the chances of Arceus appearing in the next generation?
Arceus could be the key to the multiverses.

>Could be a "want to go to high ground" thing, but Jo idea what made it chose Coronet over the seemingly similarly high Silver.
Hm, could the Spear Pillar be the key to all this?
Did it exist prior to the Sinjoh-Palace or was it built afterwards. And was it man-made.

This might just be a gimick but when you talk to Arceus during the creation of the egg it will be crying up to the sky.

>>28599350
We may have Arceus post game lore if Legendaries arent treated how they were in Gen 6. Doubt they will touch on the universes that much though.

>>28599350
Oh, that makes sense. Sinnoh and Johto people met and built Sinjoh around Mysteri Stage.

But in their respective regions, Sinnoh guys only built shrines to say, the Creation Trio, Arceus and the Regis, while Johto people only built stuff for the Tower Duo, Unown, the Weather Trio and Celebi.

Each region's legendaries are mainly based on which legendaries the people in the past dealt with, come to think of it. So that makes sense.

File: alpaca.png (76KB, 1866x448px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 1866x448px

Reminder, Arceus is in SM :^)

>>28599530
That could be it. Maybe the people from Jotho were the ones to stop believing in it and that's why it turned to the Spear Pillar?
It also says that people from both places used to sing and dance for Arceus. So the Jotho people kept the dancing for Ho-Oh and the Sinnoh people kept their flute?

>>28599597
Maybe Arceus is releasing it's true stregnth?

>>28599933
I'm not 100% sure but I think that Riddler once post a pic which show Arceus (Hoopa movie marketing) and say something like "is this the Arceus look in SM?"

>>28600335
Did Arceus look differently or was it the regular one?

>>28600394
Regular one, of course (the same one that appears in the film).
There are two possibilities

1 Drugs still fucking my brain and memories
2 Riddler he's insinuating that Arceus get a new form in SM

>Perfect Zygarde
>Full power Arceus
>Hyperspatial pokemon from another dimension
SM really seems like a (awesome) end to the main games


Someone can search that about Arceus to see if I'm wrong?

>>28599597

emperors new groove confirmed

>>28599933
Or Johto beleived in him but the information relating to Johto and Arceus has been lost when Alph became ruins.

bump

>>28603065
But why would they allow the place to become ruins in the firrst place? Wouldn't they take care of it?

I just remembered something: the Unown Report.
If you finish it, you are left with the following message from the Unown:
>Our frinds look up and heartily congratulate us.
What doe this mean?
If you take Arceus to the Mystri Stage where it would create the egg and talk to it it is looking up at the sky and crying.
This report was also only added in HGSS. This seems too far fetched to be true.

In the same report there is also again a statue. It is in one of the lower rooms of the Ruins. But didn't the people who wrote the messages to us that they were building a statue outside?
This also reminded me of the Palkia-/Dialga-Statue.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Unown_Report

Will truly everything come together in this new generation? I really do hope so!

>>28606433
>If you take Arceus to the Mystri Stage
This is something I have been wondering for a while.

How the hell do these Events work?

I'm referring to Celebi and Arceus in particular, but there are a few others that trigger Events.

Now, these events are Canon. The Celebi one for example, is where we get a proper official revelation about Silver and Giovanni, as well as the explanation for where Giovanni was.

So... For those Events to happen, Ethan/Lyra must indeed have owned Arceus/Celebi. As in literally owned. Arceus then gifts Ethan/Lyra another Deity Pokémon. Ethan/Lyra must then have traded that Celebi to Hilda/Hilbert, because they canonically met Zorua from that exact Celebi too.

But who the hell gave Ethan/Lyra these Mythical Pokémon!? I know it's not really important to think about, the REAL answer is that they were gifted because Masuda thought catching Events was too hard for kids. But from a pure In-Universe viewpoint, some mysterious guy just handed a 10 year old two incredibly powerful Pokemon for them to go on crazy adventures with.

>>28606880
That's actually a pretty good question.
I mean it's uch more likely that Lucas/Dawn just happen to find the azure flute and summon Arceus than being given the pokemon that is considered to be god by some kinda creep.
Who knows? Maybe that means that Arceus chose Ethan/Lyra itself.
Maybe it created a duplicate of itself?

>>28607192
>I mean it's uch more likely that Lucas/Dawn just happen to find the azure flute and summon Arceus
Nope. That Event was actually never released. That was when Masuda decided Events like that were too hard. He cancelled that Event, and every single Event since then has just been handed to you.

>Maybe that means that Arceus chose Ethan/Lyra itself.
I like to believe this.

>>28607230
>Nope. That Event was actually never released.
>from a pure In-Universe viewpoint
It's not canon because it wasn't released but storywise it would make much more sense for Dawn/Luca to find a weirdly shaped flute somewhere in the grass and use it at the Spear Pillar than Ethan receiving Arceus as a gift.

>>28607298
Sure. I mean, it only makes sense because there's actually a story there at all. "Getting a gift" isn't much of a story.

However, actually being able to catch Arceus is a stretch. I like the idea that Arceus chose Ethan/Lyra and gifted himself to them, through a third party. This way, he was never captured, it was all willingly done, for whatever reason

>>28606433
>Will truly everything come together in this new generation? I really do hope so!

I think we are going to get at least a new one, for the BW/BW2 and the Original Dragon

Anyone..? >>28600631

I don't think this matters much, but I've been replaying HG. When I got to the Ecutreak city dance hall (the one with the rocket grunt threatening the kimono girl) the rocket grunt mentions that she should do the Hula dance.

Considering there's a Johto-esque tower on one of the islands of Alola, I thought that was kinda interesting. But it could just be nothing.

>>28610064
You never know.

A very easy-to-miss detail in X/Y is that Valerie has connection to the Kimono Girls in Johto too. Makes sense, considering Valerie has the newest Eeveelution too, the only one not possibly present in HG/SS.

BirdKeeperToby did a neat video speculating that not only is she connected to the Kimono girls, but that she is also Bills sister, which also makes sense with the whole Eevee thing.

So yes, there could absolutely be some kind of connection to the Kimono girls in that Alola town. In fact, I am fully expecting that town to have a lot of connection to Johto. Mainly Ecruteak, of course.

>>28606880
This makes me realize, post game is more canon than people say. Many events that happen there are definitely implied to have happened.

Also that is a very good question. Ethan and Lyra definitely met Arceus, and Dawn/Lucas met all the Regis. So did Brendan/May. But that isn't as big.

>>28606433
W-Why would Arceus be crying.

Maybe it misses the place. Or the Unown.

>>28609874
I'm not interested in any Riddler info desu. Though maybe someone else is.

>>28610064
Its probably nothing, but its nice to speculate forward. Like, the guy in Union Cave Pokemon Center that says Bonjour. Now that's a Kalos saying so we can "assume" that person is from Kalos.

I also do expect Johto references in Alola. If DP remakes/sequels are true then I expect a lot if Johto references this Gen.

>>28610210
Post Game being canon is dubious. A lot of the post games in Pokemon are canon, but not always.

For example, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Dawn/Lucas or Brendan/May met the Regi's. Seriously, nothing. No event, or dialogue, or event that proves it. That Regigigas in Snowpoint very well laid dormant for the entire time, unless there is something important there that I have missed.

However there are plenty of post-game events that are pretty explicitly canon.

Generally speaking, if it has some kind of event or causes something later in the game, then its canon. If its just some legendary in a cave you might accidentally find, and defeating/capturing it changes nothing else in the game, then it probably isn't explicitly canon. At the VERY LEAST, I expect some kind of dialogue from an NPC about it, right?

A good example is Kyurem in B/W. Just because it is there, doesn't mean Hilda/Hilbert found or caught it. Finding/capturing it provides nothing extra in the game. No story event, dialogue, follow-up quest, or anything. Then the sequels to the game prove that Hilda/Hilbert did not catch it, because Ghetsis did.

Sorry if I am explaining this shitty, I havent slept and im tired as hell. Tomorrow I might make a list of all the explicitly canon stuff in post games, compared to the stuff that is not necessarily canon, and also compared to the stuff we know for a FACT is not canon.

>>28610119
Obviously Valerie is the Bill sister

>she and all her girls wear a kimono
>eeveelution
>She is called "Valerie, the maiden from a land with history" (aka Ecruteak City)
>Bill's mother was a kimono girl
>A japanese (Johto) girl in HGSS tells us that Bill's sister has weird eyes
>A japanese (Hoenn) girl in ORAS tells us that she wants to create a Fairy type gym before Valerie do (is more than a decade of difference between ORAS and XY, so Valerie was a child too at that time)

She even talks of becoming a pokemon, as Bill did

>>28610313
Good point. I get it and agree. One post game I do think is Canon is the PWT. Even if that means that there is a point between ORAS and BW2 where Wallace takes over for Steven as Champ.

>>28610408
PWT as a concept it canon. Every single character has new dialogue, it's hard to deny that effort went into it to make it authentic as an actual canon event.

Especially when earlier in the story, Roxie shows up there and all but encourages you to come back to participate.

The only thing NOT canon about it is who wins in the end. I don't think it's fair to say Rosa/Nate won the PWT just because the player can. There's no event or dialogue or anything to suggest that Rosa won the Champions Tournament. Only everything up to that one. The winner of the Champions Tournement is dubious, and I kind of like it that way. Can be either Rosa/Nate/Red/Blue/Lance/Steven/Wallace/Cynthia/Alder

>>28610497
You can't "win" the PWT I think. You can win some tournaments and qualify for others, but I don't think everything is connected as something to definitively "win" like say, the Black Tower. Its more like the Frontier where you win individual places.

Two things on Lavender town

1. Why is there such a mass gravesite there? It seems that people take their pokemon there when they die (As seen by your rival asking if one of your pokemon died when you got there). But my question is why do they do this? Pet seminary's are a thing but never this elaborate. Why set this up in Lavender town, and in other grave areas in the pokemon world? Which leads me onto my next question.

2. Are ghost pokemon naturally drawn to graveyard areas or do people make graveyard areas where there are ghost types already living due to them thinking they are the spirits of the departed?

>>28610210
Maybe the stage is the place where Arceus has access to it's full power and where it can connect with the Unown.
It could be possible that the stage existed before Arceus did but it is rather vague.

>>28610408
>PWT
>canon

No. Just take a look at Tate and Liza.

>>28610704
Makes sense.

Is there any lore about why there are ruins at Solacon Town or why Unown are there? Because Arceus could have just connected with Unown there. Maybe it prefers places that are more secluded.

>>28610728
What about Tate and Liza?

THE TRAINERS IN THE PWT ARE ACTUALLY ROBOTS

>>28610743
Hm, there is only that Unown text that can be finished by catching all of them, similar to the newly added Unown Report in HGSS.:
>Friendship
>All lives
>touch other
>lives to create
>something
>anew and alive

I guess that is to hint to the connection between Sinnoh and Jotho.

Cynthia said that Arceus would create the dimension trio in ancient times when it would climb upon the stage.
The Solaceon Ruins describe the process in which the egg is created and the alph ruins describe the aftermath when all the humans are looking up to them in the sky?
This is going to sound odd but could it be... that Arceus is the creation of the Unown? That they created Arceus and the stage?

>>28610754
Absolutely nothing. That's.
R-S-E/OR-AS happens while R-G-B/FR-LG, like G-S-C/HG-SS and D-P-Pt.
B-W take a lot of years later than HG-SS/D-P-Pt, remember that Rocket grunt who wanted to return home? Is in Icirrus city and now he has a 7/8 years old son.

R-G-B/FR-LG & R-S-E/OR-AS
+ 3 years later
= HG-SS/D-P-Pt
+ the time it took that guy to back to Unova, fall in love and get married
+ roughly 1 year (pregnancy)
+ 7/8 years old kid
= B-W
+ 2 years later
= B2-W2

It's been about 15 years since R-S-E/OR-AS when PWT is celebrated, is impossible for Tate and Liza to remain as children. PWT can't be canon (except the Unova leaders tournament).

File: 1466261326842.png (31KB, 640x284px) Image search: [Google]

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>>28610754
>>28611514
That's why my (headcanon) timeline fits.

R-G was put on sale on 1996, and there are indications about that year is when the game elapses because the real-world chronology (roughly speaking) fits with the game's.
>pewter museum of science
>Space Shuttle Columbia
>"July 20, 1969! Humankind first set foot on the moon that day. I bought a color TV just so I could watch that news."
>Red-Green offered for sale at 1996, Gold-Silver (3 years later in games universe) at 1999

That is, (Gen 1/2) games take place in the year in which they were sold, but how to work the following gens? Gen 3 and Gen4 for are confirmed to happen during Gen 1 and Gen 2, so this rule does not apply in them. Then Gen 5 and Gen 6 follow a new rule? No, they back to the original one, It's clear because B2-W2 went on sale two years after B-W

How this fits? First we have seen that B-W can only happen about ten years after G-S-C/HG-SS & D-P-Pt, and B-W was put on sale on 2010, 11 later than G-S-C, also if we look at the chronology we see the symbol ≒ connect games that happen more or less simultaneously, R-G-B/FR-LG with R-S-E/OR-AS... G-S-C/HG-SS with D-P-Pt... and B2-W2 with XY. How? Because B2-W2 went on sale in 2012 and X-Y went on sale in 2013.
So ≒ means that passes like one year. R-G-B/FR-LG starts in 1996, but R-S-E ends in 1997. G-S-C starts in 1999 but D-P-Pt ends in 2000, BW happen in 2010 (that fits in a perfect 10 years timeskip), B2-W2 starts in 2012 but X-Y ends in 2013. Obviously it was not a surprise to me to confirm that S-M happens after X-Y, because S-M fits in 2016, 20 years after the original adventure in Kanto.

>>28610754
>>28611545
And that also fits perfectly with the ages of the protagonists, because Red is 11 years old according to the original game manual, but Brendan/May is 12 years according to the PokeNav Plus. You really think that the Pokémon franchise, which can't stop suck Red's dick, would make Brendan older than Red? Of course not, they are the same age, 11 years in 1996, 12 years in 1997.


· 1996-1997 (Red-Green-Blue/FireRed-Leaf-Green ≒ Ruby-Sapphire-Emerald/OmegaRuby-AlphaSapphire
[timeskip]
· 1999-2000 (Gold-Silver-Crystal/HeartGold-SoulSilver ≒ Diamond-Pearl-Platinum
[timeskip]
· 2010 (Black-White)
[timeskip]
· 2012-2013 (Black2-White2 ≒ X-Y)
[timeskip]
· 2016 (Sun-Moon)

Can anyone direct me to more posts or videos about random lore facts?
If you link me a video don't give me one of those annoying faggots. I just want the information prevented in a quick manner, not some autist attempting to make jokes.

>>28611514
Why do you tink they are still children?

Actually, I've been playing OR/AS, and there is someone in one of the pokecenters that says (number) of years ago, pokecenters had another floor where trading was done, a reference to how the pokecenters worked in the original. This makes me believe that the events of OR/AS were transplanted. We are no longer in the same time frame as the original R/S/E.

>>28611545
wait what does that have to do with tate and liza

File: TL.png (4KB, 176x90px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 176x90px

>>28611683
You really think they are 15 years older? You really think that ANYONE in that tournament is at least 5 years older?

>>28611862
I had to explain the decade between D-P-Pt and B-W, so I took the opportunity to explain my timeline

>>28611924
I agreed with you before but now after seeing that picture I could believe they are at the very most 8 years older.

>>28611924
I mean, I'm sure SM are going to imply Professor Oak is still alive and well and pretty active, despite being quite old in FRLG and being more than 15 years older in SM. Are the canonity of those games going to hinge on whether or not Oak is dead?

Well, there is one inconsistency with that. For HG/SS and OR/AS, they are updated so the world has the same technology we do now instead of 10 or so years ago. This was not changed in FR/LG, where all of it was maintained from the original, except they have a LESS advanced console in FR/LG than the original.

>>28611982
Oak doesn't look that old in R/B. He looks at most 60.

File: FireRed_LeafGreen_Professor_Oak.png (408KB, 578x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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>>28611945
>8 years older
Definitely you have no idea the rate at which children grow.

>>28611982
>SM 15 years later than FRLG
You mean 20 right?

>Oak dead
You really think that this man will only live 20 years more? What is the life expectancy in your country...?

>>28612109
*less than 20 years

>>28612042
Good point. I suppose Kanto was pretty behind for being a big urban centre. And Red has a SNES when Brendan/May have WiiU's.

>>28612109
Pretty sure it's 78 or something, I dunno. Still, I highly doubt 80 year old Oak will still be doing the same thing as 60 year old Oak. And I dont think SM will imply he's retired or anything.

>>28612109
>Definitely you have no idea the rate at which children grow.
What about the rate at which anime children grow?

Well, it's indeed way more possible to live to 80 something, but it's still no guarantee. At the very least, he is very frail, but I doubt that means he's retired. The word used in Japan is the same as Doctor, so one can still be called that until the day they die. They can even still be doing research, but I doubt it will involve much traveling. Being an instructor at a university or whatever? Theoretically, they could still be doing that, too, but it's not that common purely because of the stress involved.

>>28612146
Well, we need wait form SM to see the old Oak and the adult Red (31 years old, dude), if they appear

>>28612167
Even anime children grow more than that if you spend 15 years (in ashnime has not passed even 1 year, Ash still 10)

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Professor_Oak#50.3F

>>28612402
Mind you, I don't know what they're talking about. I looked all over, and I cannot find this dialogue that says Oak is 10 years younger than Rowan at the time of D/P/Pt.

By the way... about their ages...
according to the original game manual, Red and Green are 11 (in 1996), when you progress in ORAS (1997), Brendan/May are referred to 12 year old (also Wally as 10).
Ethan and Lyra have the same age as the original Red (11), according to PokeDex, Lucas and Dawn heights and weights are similar to Ethan/Lyra's, so probably they are 11 too.
Hilbert and Hilda were initially designed as 16, but in the end they were 14 according to the magazine Famitsu. Nate and Rosa have the same age as Hilbert and Hilda in their games. N is older than Hilbert/Hilda and Huhg is older than Nate/Rosa.
Calem and Serena are older than Emma, who is declared as 16 in Xerosic's documents, so they must have like 17.

So... in 2016 they are:

Red/Green = 31
Brendan/May = 31
Wally = 29
Ethan/Lyra = 28
Lucas/Dawn = 28
Hilbert/Hilda/Cheren/Bianca = 20
N = >20
Nate/Rosa = 18
Huhg = >18
Calem/Serena = 20

>>28613550
But we don't know when BW/BW2 start or end.
We only know that some time was inbetween them.
The ages of the protagonists could vary greatly depending on when BW start.

>>28613696
He's working under this assumption here >>28611545

>>28613974
Yeah but that's rather farfetched.

We also don't really know how long the period of time was the events in each respective generation happened in.
There is two years between ORAS/FRLG and HGS/DPPT and the sae goes for BW and BW2 but that is all.

File: Arceus_M18.png (2MB, 1672x941px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1672x941px

So I got around to watching that Hoopa movie. Though awful, I did enjoy the legendary pandering. Anyway, the whole Arceus bit about the movie I found fascinating. The obvious Jesus symbolism with Arceus leaving a ray of light behind etc. got me thinking, is there an organised religion in the Pokemon universe dedicated around Arceus? I noticed that some of the characters in the movie had an Arceus pendant

>>28614378
There is Hearthome City which has a church but the people there only talk about the connection between humans and pokemon.
Well, we do know that people used to worship Arceus when we consider the Spear Pillar, Sinjoh Ruins and the shrine and ruins in celestic town.
It is quite a mystery why humans would've stopped worshipping Arceus.

>>28614685
Why are you assuming they stopped? And couldn't Celestic Town suggest otherwise since it's not abandoned?

On the topic of Arceus, we've seen that there can be more than one of some mythical/legendary pokemon, but is there more than one Arceus? It seems odd that there might be more than one Arceus, but that could be being used to monotheistic beliefs

>>28615302
Nothing has suggested multiple Arceus.

The only definitive Arceus encounter was by Ethan/Lyra

>>28614975
No one ever really talks about Arceus except for Cynthia and the Hiker so I guess it was ditched for Palkia and Dialga. There is a big statue of it after all.
Wouldn't they also want to keep their sacred places in check? The Sinjoh ruins are not accesable by regular means and so is probably the Spear Pillar.
The only thing left is really celestic town.
Maybe people grew afraid of Arceus's power?

>>28615404
>Nothing has suggested multiple Arceus.
Maybe it can produce duplicates of itself?

>>28615404
Can we count events as canon?

>>28615845
It gives insight into Arceus lore, so yes. I mean, if we don't treat it as canon then as far as we're concerned, Sinjoh, the Embedded Tower, or Flower Paradise doesn't exist, and there is nothing proving that Silver is Giovanni's son.

>>28615910
So, the events but not the capturing of pokemon?

>>28615969
Yes, this is a good compromise. The events definitely happen, but not the capturing of Pokemon.

Also means the only canon legendary catch is Lati@s

Ethan/Lyra were lucky enough to be chosen by both Celebi and Arceus, as well as Rayquaza, Suicune, Lugia and Ho-oh.

Any event that gives lore can be said as canon. Events like say, whatever happened in Snowpoint or the Hoops Rings can be considered dubious

Well, all of the legends have some kind of myth and some were once regarded as deities, but I am not sure if they still are. If they are, it's not as widespread as it used to be and is limited to small cults. All cultures in pokemon seem to have respect and/or reverence for the dead. (save for Kanto Radio, may they be haunted by Mega Gengar forever)

>>28616335
They moved the graves to a different building in Lavender

i reckon the celebi event is canon, but not the entirety of the arceus event.
however, the power displayed by arceus is canon. so yes, it probably can make an extra creation trio.

>>28616414
What about it could be non canon?

>>28616454
first of all, where the fuck did ethan/lyra get the creator of the universe?

>>28616647
Who knows? Like someone else mentioned earlier, maybe it chose them to witness it.

>>28616717
Ethan/Lyra also has already a somehwat established connection with Ho-Oh/Lugia and Suicune (potentially Celebi) so Arceus considered them worthy of witnessing it's power?
Maybe it would eventually leave the trainer again?

does anyone else wish we get a platinum remake instead of dp? platinum is superior in absolutely every way. plus the main character's outfits are better.

>>28590716
>I think were are coming up with lore reasons for the game not having everything it was supposed to
That's the whole point about speculating

>>28616884
Yeah, but its usually about building on evidence actually put there.

There is zero lore relating to the Gen 6 legendaries and mythicals outside Dex entries, as they have so far done nothing in game, and have not been referenced outside the box legends in the Flare plot

>>28616832
That makes sense. We know of 4 legendaries the trainer has canonically met due to how good of a person they were during the main game. So Arceus coming afterwards seems logical.

File: 1472685239122.png (114KB, 356x265px) Image search: [Google]

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>>28616857
I hope we get Platinum Sequels set at the same time as SM

Don't mind the pic, that was just to get the post timer down

>>28616857
I'd say everyone wants it but it would be or profitable for GF to sell two games.
But yeah, I for one would welcome that. Platinum was just kinda my very first Pokemon game. I did play Pokemon Yellow on my sisters GBC in Elementary - but FRLG had just been released.
I'm feeling nostalgic.

>>28617061
>Platinum Sequels
I kinda like the idea but I can't think of any plot that could be used for it.
Would you have any ideas?

>>28617147
It depends on SM's plot.

>UB 01 and 02 in SM
>UB 03 and 04 in Pt2
Cyrus finds them while stuck between dimensions

Returns to use their power to subdue Giratina once and for all
>the player teams up with a box legend to shut it down

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>>28616857
>Platinum remake
>because is superior to DP
Yeah, like DeltaEmerald, right? Luckily not something like... OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire, that sounds really stupid... unoriginal


>>28614303
>is farfetched
>when age and timeline fit perfectly to the theory
Well, I don't think so. Particularly when there no conclusive evidence which disproves that timeline, you know.
That's my timeline and will remain so until a unsolvable failure is found.

Check out the visual version (yeah, in spanish).
Primer periodo = First period
Segundo periodo = Second period
Tercero periodo = Third period
Cuarto periodo = Fourth period
Quinto periodo = Fifth period
Generación de X = X's Generation
Realidad = Reality
Clásica = Classic
Moderna = Modern

Also I used the original japanese names, "Kantō", "Jōto", "Hōen", "Shin'ō", "Isshu", "Kalos" and "Alōla".

>>28617886
Still annoying to see people who say they know the timeline not put BW2 and XY together in the same timeline.

Why would the director place something from an entirely different universe within one timeline, by putting together BW2 and XY?

>>28617987
Still annoying to see people who don't understand how this works.

XY doesn't happen nearly to "BW2", like ORAS doesn't happen nearly to "FRLG". Happen their counterparts.

B2-W2 is part of the B-W reality.
B-W of the Pt reality.
Pt of the HG-SS reality.
HG-SS of the R-S-E reality.
And R-S-E of the FR-LG reality.

We know from NPCs that happened the counterpart of what we saw in B-W, , but we do not know exactly how it happened. There is "a B-W and B2-W2" in the "Azoth Reality"? Yeah, but that version of the story doesn't happen in B-W or B2-W2.

Same with D-P and Pt. Something happened with Team Galactic in Sinnoh at 1999/2000? Yes, but we will not know how exactly that happened in the "Azoth Reality" if GF doesn't make a remake of D-P (or Platinum).

>>28618477
I mean, I'm one of those people who think that Gen 6 is pretty much still in the reality that 4 and 5 is as ORAS simply replaced RSE, so that is all meaningless to me. But let's not get into that.

But the timeline stated that XY, as in, the games we played, are in the same universe as BW2, the game we played. XY and ORAS were made at the same time, so its not like there was no way of knowing about the Zinnia shit. But the games were consciously placed in the same timeline, rather than split like say, WindWaker and Twilight Princess

>>28618630
>ORAS simply replaced RSE
That already makes it another universe.
Also, do you actually think that, something as big as MegaEvolution and everything related to it that is everywhere in ORAS and XY wouldn't be mentioned at all in the rest of the world?

>But the games were consciously placed in the same timeline
But they weren't. For example, if they were, MegaEvolutions, Fairy type and other stuff would be known. I had already figured this out before ORAS came out and I always thought it was a simple concept. I'm more surprised that people are surprised by it than it being a thing.

>>28618630
>But the timeline stated that XY, as in, the games we played, are in the same universe as BW2

You mean the simplified version which doesn't specify different realities...? ( >>28611545 )

>>28618771
Simply, yes. That is not at all surprising to me. Huge things in some parts of the real world are minor things in other parts of the world. Mega Evolution existing does not mean it has to be the centre of every region. In fact, places like Aspertia City or Lentimas Tow existed during BW but were never mentioned once. And that's the same region.

Alola Forms shows that not every pokemon is every type everywhere. Or, it could just be a retcon, like the the inconsistencies between ORAS and XY in the first place.

>>28618810
Yeah that one.

What doesnt everyone get?

There are two completely seperate universes, ORAS didnt replace RSE, its literally a different reality with mega evolution, and you can bet your ass that remakes from now on will be in this new mega timeline.

The events all happen in the order that was posted on twitter, but they happen in two branching universes.

For example, the events in BW happen 100% in the same timeline but they happen differently in the mega universe.

Kanto events with megas = Oras > Johtho events with megas = Sinnoh events with megas > Bw events wih megas > BW2 events with megas = XY > Sun and moon

Idk what is so hard to understand about this

>>28618923
So... what are you talking about...? We agree that it's a simplified version, right?
He wrote
赤緑 ≒ RS → 金銀 ≒ DPPt → BW → BW2 ≒ XY

Like he may have written
赤緑青 / FRLG ≒ RSE / ΩRαS → 金銀C / HGSS ≒ DPPt → BW → BW2 ≒ XY

He doesn't specify about realities, so put B2-W2 with X-Y is (in that sense) correct.

>>28618939
It's basically what I'm trying to say. Thank you, my limited english makes it difficult to express myself

>>28618939
But are Megas already confirmed for Sund and Moon?

>>28619344
I agree that it's simplified, I just dont think XY is in any different universe.

>>28618939
No, Kanto Events where Mega Evolution exists is not the same as Kanto Events with Megas.

It is very conceivable for the events of say, FRLG to exist in a world where Mega Evolution exists, even if it's not central to the plot. Unsure why everyone thinks that if Megas exist they need to be a part of every journey now, but whatever.

File: megas.jpg (460KB, 1546x984px) Image search: [Google]

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>>28619412
Yes

Jesus, this thread went to shit, yet again.

Special thanks to the retard who thinks that Pokémon is set in the same dates as the real world. Almost spat out my drink when you tried to unironically convince everybody that Red is currently 31.

For real though, fuck off with that headcanon. You've now yet again devolved the thread into talking about timelines and parallel universes with your shitty taco chart, even though we all agreed last thread not to post fan-made guides like that. There hasnt been any actual lore discussion for about half the fucking thread thanks to you.

ITT: autism

>>28619521
>Post Number didnt go up
nice try

>>28619498
Yeah, That really was where all this shit started. There was a great Arceus discussion though

>>28613550

Im sorry what?

>>28619553
Is this thread another title for Pokemon fanfic write thread?

>>28619569
Idiot thinks that Pokémon follows our general dating system.

As in, Gen 1 is literally set in 1996, and Gen 7 is literally in 2016.

Don't ask me how he came to that conclusion, because I have no fucking clue either.

He's also managed to pull an extra decade out of nowhere (the Pokémon timeline as it is, fits all 6 Gens together in the timespan of approximately a decade. Unless he somehow thinks that there was a fucking 10 year gap between Gen 4 and 5, I have no clue where these extra years are coming from, but I would guess he bullshitted it up so that his "real dates" headcanon would work)

>>28619596
Now this is a much better insult.

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>>28619498
>inaccurate racist insult
>calls me retard
>he doesn't have any point to refute the theory

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>>28619681
So it's just some autists headcanon?

whos even retarded enough to think that red is fucking 31? I guess I was proven wrong

>>28619709
Theories without canonical proof is wrong by default, fuck off to >>>/vpwt/

>>28619758
I think this started when I mentioned I thought the PWT was canon and someone mentioned it couldnt be because Tate and Liza would have to be adults.

RIP

>>28619709
>he doesn't have any point to refute the theory
Sure.

A) There is nothing to establish dates in Pokémon. Nothing. It's left intentionally ambigious, but it certainly doesn't match up to us IRL. For fuck sakes, they have Teleporters in """""""1996""""""" apparently.

B) The timeline doesn't last that long at all. Let's follow Red;

>11 in what we will call Year 1 (Gen 1/3)
>14 in Year 4 (Gen 2/4)
>Unknown amount of time passes, but it's not believed to be a lot of time at all. Another 2/3 years.
>Making Red approximately 19 when he is at the PWT
>X/Y happens at the same time as B2/W2, so Red is still 19.

The only way your shitty idea that Red is 31 now is if the gap between Gen 4 and 5 is fucking 7-8 years longer than it needs to be, without a shred of proof for it. The fact is, we don't know exactly how long of a gap between the Gens is. It's left ambiguous because they ikely don't want to fuck themselves up with it (which they ended up doing in the PWT, but I digress)

C) One final point to put this to rest; Why the FUCK would they follow our real world dating system, but have half the games not fit into it correctly? I'm talking about Gen 3, Gen 4, and X/Y, all games that, according to this theory, have to be happening in the "past" relative to the years that they were released. On a meta level, we're talking a supposed 8 fucking years where they were not releasing games set in the present day, before going back to "present day" for a single Generation, and then setting things in the past again with X/Y. How the FUCK does that make any logical sense to you?

There, there's you points that refute your theory. Now please dont ruin the thread like that again.

>>28619553
>There was a great Arceus discussion though
Can we please go back to that?
Those timeline discussions are always nasty.

>>28619796
The thing is, more likely that not, Game Freak just didn't bother update the sprites, for a few reasons;

1. PWT was supposed to invoke nostalgia
2. Most characters in the PWT were adults and didn't need updating
3. Liza/Tate are actually the same age as Red. I can totally see them all looking generally the same in their late teens. They'de be approximately 19.
4. Game Freak are lazy. You'll notice pretty much all of the spritework is just carried over from previous games.

I don't think Liza/Tate "looking too young" discredits the PWT in the slightest. The Event is still discussed and presented as a Canon event by dozens of NPC's, and every character that participates has new dialogue, and is interactable in the lobby. Just because GF was too lazy to "age up" 4 or 5 characters out of the entire PWT, doesn't mean the PWT is suddenly not canon.

>>28619709
>>28619907

We know the gap snt large because Catlin is in Pt/HGSS and is also in BW and doesnt even look 5 years older.

Not to mention ORAS Brendan and May having a WiiU when FRLG Red has a SNES a few regions away. I highly doubt they are implying the WiiU existed in 1996

>>28619681
>>28619717
He explained everything in the first pot, and yes, it is possible that 10 years passed between Platinum and SM.

>>28619973
Good idea. I know we were discussing why Arceus would leave Sinjoh and what made it choose Sinnoh over Johto

And what lore did Solacon Town or the Tanoby Ruins added to the Unown.

>>28620009
Oh I already know/think all of that

>>28620025
Thank you, those are also two very good points

The only piece of "evidence" that I am aware of, that people use to say there was a longer gap, is the Team Rocket NPC in Iccirus City. He has retired and has a family, and people say that the kid in the room is about 10 years old. But this is assuming that actually is his kid, that the kid is about 10, that it's biologically his, and that the kid wasn't born before HG/SS.

That's a lot of straw clutching compared to just looking at Caitlin who, as you say, doesn't look much older at all.

>>28620084
Possible? Maybe. But no. Read: >>28620025 and my response.

>>28620103
>we were discussing why Arceus would leave Sinjoh and what made it choose Sinnoh over Johto
One of the things I find so fascinating about Pokémon, is how many of them seem to actually be from Regions they weren't introduced in.

Steelix, for example, as far as we know, naturally evolved in the Sinnoh Region, before being introduced anywhere else. Despite being "introduced" in the Gen 2 games. Hell in Gen 2 alone, some Pokémon were introduced that don't even appear in Johto, but rather Kanto. (Houndoom, Murkrow, ect)

So maybe Johto/Sinjoh holds a lot more importance to Arceus than Sinnoh, despite Sinnoh supposedly being where Arceus started to shape the world.

>>28568970
>another name for mercury
>literally means "nitrogen" in some languages

I think something somewhere some time during late middle ages got lost in translation.

>>28620103
The Tanoby Ruins might just be there to actually catch the Unown because there was no other way to obtain them during that generation.
Some guy there mentions them being 1500 yeas old.
The Ruins of Alph and the Solaceon Ruins both have in common, that upon finding all Unown they leave you a message which both have soething to do with friendship.

We were also discussing whether Arceus is actually worshipped as a god in the Pokemon world but as far as I know only three people ever mention him: Cynthia, the scientist in the Ruins of Alph and the Hiker with the plates. Every place that is related to it in some way is in ruins now other than Celestic Town. So this is also odd.

>>28620140
Hell, the Roughneck Trainer Class doesnt look very old in Gen 5. It's not at all inconcivable that a Rocket Grunt (who was already an adult) could look this way 3 years later, find a single mom and settle down.

>>28620315
That's a good point, but I also think people tend to forget that if a pokemon is in a region's Pokedex, tha should imply that the pokemon can indeed be natively found in that region. So I'd argue that All 256 Pokemon in Johto's Pokedex are naturally occurring in the region in some way, even if it's a way the trainer hasnt seen. Remember that other trainers often have pokemon we cant easily find ourselves. Like all the people in Johto with Kanto/Johto starters.

>maybe Johto/Sinjoh holds a lot more importance to Arceus than Sinnoh
I actually think this could be the case. Although I beleive Sinjoh is where he shaped the world. Which now makes me wonder what the purpose of Spear Pillar even is.

>Tanoby Ruins
I know, but are they just plopped there like Hoopa's rings with no details?

>>28620432
There's a Church in Sinnoh, but they don't really mention Arceus.

Remember, Arceus is a Mythical Pokémon. Mythical Pokémon are basically unknown to the majority of the Pokémon World. You'll find NPC's who tell stories of Legendary Pokémon, but almost never Mythical (unless it's a specific Event dialogue)

So Arceus in all likelihood, was probably worshipped hundreds of years ago, by the people at Sinjoh, but has since faded into myth, unknown by most people.

>>28620524
That isn't true. The dex often includes pokemon found in the Safari Zone, which there's no way those are native, and other pokes in a similar situation that are clearly not native, such as the Trophy Garden. It even includes pokemon only found by in game trades, which are inconclusive as to what their original whereabouts are. I can even say the starters themselves have no real proof they are native.

>>28620524
>but I also think people tend to forget that if a pokemon is in a region's Pokedex, tha should imply that the pokemon can indeed be natively found in that region
I disagree. Eevee are always described as being rare and brought in from other Regions, and until Gen 5, were only handed to you as gifts, NEVER found naturally in the wild. The Starters are often described that way too, and even the recent Yungoose is explained as having been brought in from another Region.

So I don't think a Regional Dex is an accurate portrayal of a Regions natural wildlife at all. Look at the Regi's in Hoenn and Unova. Are they really Native to those Regions? Not very likely.

A very obvious one, but Mewtwo is in X/Y. Unless Flare created a second/third Mewtwo we just don't know about, Mewtwo shouldn't be native to Kalos at all. (The anime did role with the second Mewtwo idea though, so...)

How about Genesect, who according to X/Y, were found naturally in Kalos, before Colress/Plasma created the Genesect we know today in Unova?

There are plenty of examples of Pokémon in Regional Dex's that don't appear to actually be from said Region at all.

>>28620768
Also this, there are some Sari-exclusive Pokémon that absolutely MUST have been brought in from otehr Regions, that are still registerable in the Regional Dex.

>>28620606
That is true indeed. But it still let you wonder why such a powerful Pokemon would be forrgotten.

The shape of the Sinnoh region is pretty weird. It is connected with Jotho via Mt Coronet so this is also most likely where Sinjoh is. But is also is inaccesable by normal means because of the old man with in the hut.

>>28620524
You have to push some boulders to complete a puzzle and inside the ruins there are weirdly arranged walls but that's about it. Can the occurance of Unown i the Tanoby Ruins be considered canon then?
Are they connected with the Ruins of Alph?

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>>28620941
Well at the risk of sounding like Richard, Arceus supposedly left to go into a dormant sleep, and only reappears when Ethan/Lyra mysteriously receive him and take him to the Ruins of Alph.

Maybe Arceus realized his necessity of watching over the world was over, so he went to rest, and in time, humanity forgot about him.

>But is also is inaccesable by normal means because of the old man with in the hut.
What?

>>28620768
You are letting gameplay limitations get in the way of your thinking. Of course GF wants to put some mons as Safari Zone exclusive.

But hell, in HGSS, the Safari Zone was literally just opened, in the middle of your journey, and did not exist before then. And yet the Johto Dex has mons that can only be found there. That's ridiculous.

Not to mention, we actually have seen examples on Pokemon present in a Safari Zone that is also within the region (like Azumarill) so it's not impossible for that to not apply to others. Plus, the Safari Zone is only characterized by having some rare Pokemon. Not specifically out of region ones.

>>28620790
Also here, rare does not mean inaccessible. Snubbul's 1% appearance rate in one Johto Route is quite rare, but still found in the wild.

For legendaries, it can just be described as those that house themselves within a region by themselves. As for others, even if they werent there from the start, that cant mean they arent there naturally now. BW2's increased Dex is an example, as is Yungoos, and Corphish.

>>28620941
No, Sinjoh is between Sinnoh and Johto, I dont think it is within the Sinnoh boarders seen within the games

>Can the occurance of Unown i the Tanoby Ruins be considered canon then?
Well, Sevii is a canonical region, so maybe? I havent gotten that far in FRLG.

>>28621020
I actually heard about that. Was that mentioned in the games or in the anime?

>What?
Oops, I meant to say that there is no other way to leave than by being teleported back. You e.g. can't use fly there and there is also no door or cave that leads to it.

>>28621151
One of Arceus's Dex entries talks about it sleeping or something. This was supposed to be forshadowing an Event in which you would use a Flute to wake it up, but that Event was cancelled.

>I meant to say that there is no other way to leave than by being teleported back.
Oh right. Also worth mentioning the entire place is completely hidden in snow. It seems the place is a complete ruin, forgotten by most of the world, just like Arceus is. I'm sure there is a way to get to and from the ruins safely, or else the man in the hut wouldn't be there. But for the sake of convenience, you just teleport back.

>>28621085
What IS native to a region then? If they can change it on a dime, then I don't think it matters.

>>28621210
True. I think MOST of a Regional Dex is accurate though, just not all of it. But it doesn't matter too much, it's just trivia.

>>28621210
Well, true. Which is why a Pokedex ends up being a good, quick guide as to what pokemon are considered "related" to a region.

>>28619681
>Idiot thinks that Pokémon follows our general dating system.
>pewter museum of science
>Space Shuttle Columbia
>"July 20, 1969! Humankind first set foot on the moon that day. I bought a color TV just so I could watch that news."
>Red-Green offered for sale at 1996, Gold-Silver (3 years later in games universe) at 1999
Also doesn't matter if Gen 1 don't happens in """1996""".you can call it "1996" or "X", or... as you prefer.

>Don't ask me how he came to that conclusion, because I have no fucking clue either.
>extra decade out of nowhere
>literally not reading anything about how fits the timeline

>the Pokémon timeline as it is, fits all 6 Gens together in the timespan of approximately a decade
>contradicting Team Rocket grunt son age, because in his headcanon can't spend many years between games

>I have no clue where these extra years are coming from
Because you haven't read anything and just lock yourself in your autism sphere
>"10 years between games!? Too much time, I don't like it is impossible should be few years!"
>"Everything has to fit in a decade trust me my ass is a really good source!"
>"Red having 31 years? No way, protagonist have no right to grow they must be younger!!"
>"Reasons? I'll only see the conclusion, if it doesn't convince me is just bullshit I don't care his reasoning!"


>>28619758
>Theories which fits canonical facts are wrong by default
Because...


>>28619796
>>28620009
You know that PWT being canon doesn't affect the theory... right?

>>28619907
>There is nothing to establish dates in Pokémon. Nothing.
Wrong. See >>28621354

>teleporters in 1996
Yeah, teleporters, magical healing machines, poke balls, pocket monsters... It's a fantasy world.

>The only way your shitty idea that Red is 31 now is if the gap between Gen 4 and 5 is fucking 7-8 years longer than it needs to be, without a shred of proof for it
You just show that you haven't read the theory because it explains how it's impossible to spend only a few years between HG-SS/D-P-Pt and B-W.

>"why they do something that doesn't really affect anything the game?"
>proof, " point that refute your theory"
No.
Also, I really don't understand everything you said... but I think you're wrong about what I said. Seriously, read the damn theory if you want to refute something, because you didn't yet
>>28611514
>>28611545
>>28611587


>>28620025
>Caitlin
>point
Literally why? She is a girl who grows and at a certain time stops growing, you thinking she should grow more is not a proof because she is not a little girl, like Liza. Also, again, the grunt confirms that not passed few years, he returned to Unova, fell in love, married and had a son. Those are many years

>protags consoles
Yeah... according to this shit, Red have a SNES but Brendan and May have (roughly at the same time) a WiiU. Also, OR-AS Brendan have a WiiU, but R-S-E Brendan a GameCube. How YOU explain that? It's just a easter egg-like funny detail


>>28620140
>the kid is about 10
I don't say that. Why you don't read the theory if you are so eager to refute?

>But this is assuming that actually is his kid
He says he's his son. He's just in his city, in your home, with his family. Also, speculate that this is not his child or he's adopted without any real reason really is is grabbing at straws

>born before HG/SS
He says that "he came home, fell in love, married and had a son", so that's after HG-SS.

>>28621207
I was just checking the entries but it says nothing about him sleeping.
I am really curious now abou that.

>I'm sure there is a way to get to and from the ruins safely, or else the man in the hut wouldn't be there.
Yeah, this must be true. Maybe GF you will be able to go there in the future.

From the Unown Report:
>Even if a bunch of people gathered near the ruins
>, it is said that the ones who wished for Unown and humans to again coexist have all left.
Maybe Unown only want to live with those who know about Arceus and have a connection to it. As Arceus was forgotten and the last few people who believed in it died.
These people also built a statue of a unspecified Pokemon. Arceus? Maybe.

>>28621354
>Also doesn't matter if Gen 1 don't happens in """1996""".you can call it "1996" or "X", or... as you prefer.
Exactly, so why keep up the charade of it happening in present day, just because the first two Gens may have fit like that? We know that cant work now, because OR/AS, set at the same time as Gen 1, has May/Brendan own a Wiiu.

Also none of the other things you mentioned matter, those are dates of the past and don't give any indication of how long ago those things are. You'll also notice that after Gen 1, they stopped using IRL dates. Not a coincidence. Just like how they don't reference real countries anymore.

The rest of your post is shitposting and ignoring my points too. Well done.

>You know that PWT being canon doesn't affect the theory... right?
It does. This all started because someone said Liza/Tate looked too young for the PWT to be canon. Well you can certainly stretch it if the characters are less than 20 years old, but your theory would have them be fucking 30 years old at the PWT. That IS too much. Forget Liza/Tate, EVERY character in Gen 1/3 would need to look older if such a huge amount of time had passed. Blaine would probably be dead! So yeah, your theory can not exist at the same time as the PWT being canon.

>>28621421
>Wrong. See >>28621354

>Caitlin
>point
So you ARE going to ignore Caitlin, and instead cling to the idea that the Grunt is confirmation of a longer mount of time. K DEN.

>It's just a easter egg-like funny detail
So the consoles are just an easter egg, but the dates about the rocket ship are COMPLETELY CANON AND PROVE THE DATING SYSTEM. Anon please. PLEASE. You can't be serious right now. You can't actually think one is an easter egg, and the other isnt? If we're being real here, both are just easter eggs. Neither of these things are designed to pinpoint when in time these games are set.

The argument is not the numbers themselves, but how they're spaced. There could very well be a correlation to real life time passing. Pretend it's 3236, 3239, 3250, 3252, and 3256 for all I care.

>>28621551
Especially since his Rocket Grunt proof is not proof at all, since its still an assumption as to how long he was there.

>>28621020
If Arceus is actually sleeping - why?

Humans must have wittnessed it at least once when it was creating the dimension trio on the Mystri Stage.

That could explain why people slowly forgot about it and the last ones who believed in it eventually died.
But Sinnoh still believes in Palkia and Dialga...

>>28621784
Except there isn't, because Gen 3, 4, and X/Y happen out of sync. That's almost half the main series games. If there's any proof that the games aren't intended to follow the same amount of time passing as IRL, it's that.

>>28621870
>>28621483
Fuck me. Maybe it was just dialogue from the actual cancelled event, and I got it mixed up with the PokéDex entry

>>28621870
>But Sinnoh still believes in Palkia and Dialga...
That's interesting. I always forget about those statues.

>>28621878
I don't know what you're saying. I AM saying 3, 4, and 6 are different time indexes.

>>28622022
But you're also saying that the amount of time passing in the games correlates to IRL time passing, which doesn't make sense. It means 20 years have passed in-universe, which makes no sense, especially when you consider 3/6 Gens (yes, literally 50% of the games) happen outside of this "correlated time".

So no, it doesn't make sense, at all. There is no way Game Freak considers that much time having passed.

>>28622068
Outside of time? As far as that's concerned, the only relevant timeline only consists of X/Y and OR/AS. If you want to say that nothing from the other timelines exists on that timeline purely because we haven't seen it, then go ahead, but it would mean that ONLY the 6th gen counts.

>>28622181
I'm going to stop replying to you now, because you just spouted a whole lot of bullshit, and I dont want things to be derailed into parallel world bullshit yet again.

>>28621972
At least the concept behind them is mentioned by a few other people thoughout the region.

The people also still celebrate festivals surrounding it. If we consider Platinum to be the "actual" canon we don't even know which pokemon it depicts.

>>28622233
Then what ARE you saying?

>>28622181
>the only relevant timeline consists of ORAS and XY
I legitimately wish the Delta Episode didn't exist.

>>28622281
I mean, technically, Palkia and Diakga are what create Space and Time. Maybe only a select few know there is something that predate them.

>>28622281
>he people also still celebrate festivals surrounding it
I wonder if this is the Premier Ball celebration.

>If we consider Platinum to be the "actual" canon
The most recent version of a game is always the Canon one. This is reflected in B/W when Cynthia references Platinum, and not D/P. (She specifically mentions the player calming Giratina)

So yeah, Platinum is the Canon one in this context.

>>28622326
This seems likely. So far only Cynthia, a scientist and the Hiker ever refer to it. Cynthia and the scientist are obviously educated on many myths and legends. The Hiker is somewhat dubious but considering his "profession" he might make a comeback in Sun and Moon.

>>28622334
OK, so we canonically don't know what type of statue that actually is.
Statues in the Pokemon world seldomly depict specific Pokemon.

>>28622651
The Hiker could just be someone like an Ethan Lyra who met Arceus as well.

Or say, maybe the scientists at the Alph ruins know about Arceus as well and he's a researcher who lives there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5MWa1siAHk

Haven't watched this yet, might be interesting.

>>28623597
Don't bother, what a waste of time

1/2
>>28621551
>consoles means nothing
Why keep up the charade of that easter egg means nothing? If is really a thing explain us why Brendan have a GameCube in RSE but a WiiU in ORAS. RSE is in "2001" (you can use any dating system) but ORAS in "2012" or something?
If you really want to treat consoles as a point, explain how that works.

>Also none of the other things you mentioned matter
Proves that Pokemon use our dating system (so proves that you are wrong about that), and proves that there is a similarity between the important dates in the history of Pokemon world and ours, which leads to the reasonable assumption, hypothesis, theory, that the date on which Red begins his adventure in the Pokemon world is the same in which Red begins its adventure in our world (as a game character).
It's just a theory, I have never denied this, but you haven't given me any proof, just assumptions like Caitlin having to grow even more (when she may stop growing and that is their natural stature now) or a easter egg meaning something.

>You'll also notice that after Gen 1, they stopped using IRL dates. Not a coincidence. Just like how they don't reference real countries anymore.
Yeah, so what? A NPC in G-S-C/HG-SS says that in the Indigo Plateau, best trainers all over the country meets, also the "famous" grunt says he wants to return their country. That means we can't say that Kanto and Johto are part of a different country it belongs to Unova, even if both countries are part of the "Pokemon Nation"?
I can understand that you THINK that's not canon anymore, but if you want that be a proof, you have to PROVE that it's. If you can't prove it, you're just assuming, like me.

>The rest of your post is shitposting and ignoring my points too. Well done.
Literally what?

>So you ARE going to ignore Caitlin
Do you know how to read? Because I have given reasons of how Caitlin's age is not a proof, there's reasons

>>28624710
2/2

>>28621551
>So the consoles are just an funny easter egg, but the dates about the rocket ship aren't
Again: You can explain how consoles could be more than an easter egg when Brendan has at the same time, a GameCube or Wii U according to their different realities? My theory explains how dates perfectly fit with the rocket ship.
Whatever, you don't need to try it, because "Columbia" is just one example of how ingame stuff reasonably lead to a theory.

>>28622068
3/6 Gens (yes, literally 50% of the games) happen outside of this "correlated time"
You really have read the theory?
Only Gen 3 and Gen 4 "happen outside of this correlated time" and is confirmed that they happened while Gen 1 and Gen 2, so is justified. Even if don't convince you, does not mean that it has any sense.
Furthermore, it is also confirmed that Gen 5 was specially developed, "totally new region, far away from the previous", "totally new protagonist, older than all previously known", "totally new story, separated from the others", "totally new PokeDex, no older mons in it".
If there is any big timeskip somewhere, is logical to be between Gens 1-4 and Gen 5.


Seriously, dude, I don't know if your reaction is exaggerated or just seems to me, but... It's just a theory not debunked (yet... at least). There are many things that can be interpreted in several ways so if we continue like this we will end up just saying "this seems X to me, so I'm right". There's no conclusive evidence that I am wrong and there's no conclusive evidence that I'm right, that's why is a fucking theory. You agree with me? Great. You don't? No problem.
If I'm wrong, maybe someday it is proved. Maybe SM will destroy my entire timeline, I don't know. But in the meantime, my timeline is possible and reasonable regarding what (no doubt) is canon. Just deal with it.

That's the last thing I have to say. Let others theorize.

>>28610661
It was just a place people went to take their pokemon to rest like MT pyre etc

>>28590422
I absolutely abhor theories that are so Christian-centric. Considering Arceus is mostly based on Eastern creation myths of Shinto, Taoist and Buddhist origin; paralleling it with the Abrahamic God is so narrow minded it's fucking cringey.

>>28625016
Why? We know that pokemon isnt entirely based on eastern things. This seems to be a really odd thing to get mad at specifically.

I suppose I get the whole "not everything centres on the west" mindset because that is indeed frustrating

>>28625016
It's just based on creation mythology in general. It's very easy for people to make the connection with Arceus and the creation stories they are most familiar with. There isn't anything to contradict it.

>>28625016
why is it cringey anon

>>28621551
>Just like how they don't reference real countries anymore.
Wasn't France mentioned in Diamond and Pearl?

>>28626077
No? You might be thinking of Fantina, who had a French dialect. In the Japanese version though, she was actually supposed to be British, so even that is shoddy

>>28626150
Yeah, I thought they said something along the lines of "I'm French" or "she comes from France" or similar. I didn't know about the British thing though, interesting.

SPECULATED LOOKER TIMELINE:

>RBY: Arrives to Kanto via the SS Anne as part of Interpol's investigation into Team Rocket.
>Generations: Along with a PokeSWAT team he raids the Viridian Gym, only to discover that Giovanni is long gone. At this time Looker's partner Pokemon is seemingly a Growlithe.

>ORAS: Washes up at the Battle Resort in Hoenn and is suffering from severe amnesia. The only object of interest with him is an Audinite.

>Platinum: Is on the case against Team Galactic in Sinnoh, which eventually ends with the arrest of Charon during a plot to control Heatran. Looker's new partner is a Croagunk.

>???: During a case that went wrong, Croagunk croaked. To this day Looker refuses to acquire a new partner Pokemon.

>BW: Assists in the manhunt for the Team Plasma sages after Ghetsis' plot failed. (Croagunk's absence hints at what would be revealed in XY)

>XY: Looker Bureau, Emma, Xerosic, etc.

>>28626175
It's funny because some parts of Kalos are based in England, so regardless of translation she can be declared kalosian in future games

>>28626441
Now, we know Gen 1 and 3 happen at the same time. Is there any real reason that thing with ORAS happens after the Gen 1/Generations stuff? Like, what if he washes up on the beach because he fell off the SS Anne (or the boat crashed)

Then after recovering, he heads back to Kanto to hunt down Giovanni, only now he is too late. Red has already chased him off.

It fits together pretty well that way (although this is of course, speculation and theory crafting based on his three appearances in that time period)

>>28626631
Similar to how Surge is Unovan, huh

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>>28626631
Unless something states otherwise, I'm already putting everyone who speaks with French dialect in the games (and there's a lot of them) as Kalosian.

Like a few people on the SS Anne

>>28568909
Bump.

Also, ever notice how, when we arent going off on timeline autism, maptism, or SM speculation, that the lore threads always end up being centered on Johto, Sinnoh and their Pokemon? And occasionally the Hoenn Box Legends.

How can other regions even compete?

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>>28627962

The other regions are on suicide watch

>>28627962
Johto/Sinnoh is where the bulk of the interesting and important lore comes from

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>>28628071
>>28627962
which reminds me

what could these mean?

>>28628149
I've always wondered this myself... Is there something unsolved here?

>>28628178
>tfw the Unown are ALSO related to the Lake Guardians and help humanity's emotions come fourth through these words
>tfw XXXXX stands for sex

>about Kalos-Unova
I heard about some NPC in BW2 which says that poke balls are mass-produced in a factory in a "nearby region", someone can confirm?

>>28628669
Will try confirm after I wake up

>>28628669
Kalos and Unova are far away from each other

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>>28621870

Arceus is sleeping.

>>28629456
NO

NOT YOU

BE GONE FROM HERE

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>>28629520

Why?

please no one likes or agrees with you, you just ruin the thread and was everyone's time

piss off

>>28629794
>wastes everyones time
Why is my spelling autistic

>>28629748
What's your real name, Richard?

i have more respect for richard than timelinefags.
at least he backs up his shit with evidence.

>>28629824

Yes.

>>28629829
Timelinefags do back their shit up with evidence though. Everybody knows how the timeline works. Except the guy who thinks Red is 31, that shit is shoddy

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>>28629794

I see.

>>28629892

red/green happens the same as ruby/sapphire, and gold/silver happens the same as DPPt.

>>28629934
Yep

That's... About as basic as you can make it, sure.

>>28629961

:)

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>>28629892
>everybody knows how the timeline works when they are not able to fit the timeskip between DPPt and BW
>literally fitting the "gen 1 = gen 3 -> gen 2 = gen 4 -> gen 5 -> gen 5.2 = gen 6" timeline
>"I think it spends too much time/they are too older, so regardless his reasoning he's wrong" argument
>still no conclusive evidence refuting the theory

Surely I LOVE vp

>>28630040
stay classy

>>28625130
>>28625166
>>28626033


It's the idea that some people must surely actually believe the Christian paradigm is the only way to view say Arceus and Giratina when really they are more nuanced than that and don't just neatly parallel 'Arceus is God and Giratina is the devil!'. That pisses me off.

>>28629829
There is literally an official timeline posted online

>>28630040
You are trolling

>>28629520
He just said were he read that Arceus would be currently sleeping.
The same text also said Dialga and Palkia making a wish, which i obviously a metapho if they actually were rulers over space and time.
You know, it could be a metaphor for Arceus being in a state where it doesn't have access to it's true power.
That's what we were discussing about the Sinjoh-Ruins and the Mystri Stage.

>>28631648
Pokemon is based on several different mythologies. Gen 4 Just portrays Arceus in a similar way as it is in abrahamic religions.
Also, there is a church in Sinnoh.

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>>28568909
It all

Comes.

together.

>>28631864
Its clear Arceus has more influence from Eastern creation myths but presumably there is some inflience from Abrahamic religion but these are more tangential. I was just stating that it is annoying that some people can be so reductive.

The church thing was interesting but there are churches in Japan so it's not that crazy. Still there is far more compelling evidence that Arceus is something more similar to the Pangu than 'God'.

>>28632148
Well, Natu can be caught at the Ruins of Alph and the Ruin Valley.

>>28631648
They are just viewing Arceus through what they understand. I see no reason to get angry at that.

>>28568940
Thats not Colress though, it's just a generic Aether scientist.

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>>28632945
Nope. These are the only regions where Pokeball creation is stated to happen

New thread?

Let's wait until this reaches at least page 8 first?

ygfjtygfhygfhf

>>28568909
NEW
E
W
>>28634024
>>28634024
>>28634024

>>28629892
I don't like the using actual years/red being 31 theory either, but you're making it sound worse than it actually is. What the guy said makes sense. It's not confirmed and I think that it's more likely that in the next games the theory is going to be proven wrong, but right now, looking at what we have, there's no reason to say it's wrong. Stop trying to make people look stupid because you don't like their ideas, please.

rip thread
you were fuckin amazing
let's hope the next one is just as good

should be dead anytime now