Do you think Z-Moves will be viable competitively? In the one

You also need a move of the same type, so it's not EXACTLY a 5th move...
More like an OP version of the elemental jewels.

They have a similar effect as those elemental gems people were using in gen 5 except possibly worse because you can't abuse stuff like Acrobatics with it.

They will be better in places like VGC where it's faster paced and item clause is enforced than standard smogon format.

>>28557857
>You also need a move of the same type

According to the site, your pokemon only needs to LEARN a move of the same type, as in you can't give the fire z-move to blastoise because it doesn't learn any fire type moves, but you can give it a z-move of the type of moves it does learn besides water.

That's what I understood, at least.

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>>28557932
>They will be better in places like VGC
>X used Protect!
>Snorlax used Pulverizing Pancake!

>>28557967
I hope protect doesn't block z moves because what's the fucking point

>>28557941
Learn implies it needs to know the actual move rather that simply have the potential to learn it.
So a Blastoise wouldn't be able to use the dragon. Z move if it doesn't have dragon pulse.

>>28558048
Maybe. I think that they would have specified it that the pokemon needs to know the move rather than learn it if that was the case, but I guess you may be right.

>>28557967
except that's not how it works

Well, they're not really that different from the Gems, right? A powered up move you can only use once, then the item becomes useless. Sure, a THunderbolt becomes SparkFucker or whatever, but that's only once.
Also, for the unique Z-Moves, switching in to those is easy.

>>28558194
>Well, they're not really that different from the Gems, right?
Thing is the could be used on any move to increase the damage. Z moves seem to be their own moves separate from the others.

>>28558194
I think it's safe to say that the item doesn't get consumed like a gem would, so post z-move Acrobatics doesn't sounds like a thing. Other than that I that they're basically gems.

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>>28558139
Explain.

>>28557759
>extremely strong
Sadly they might be pretty mediocre from the only unedited footage we've seen of one hitting

>>28558114

They showcased Z moves on the gamescom. The Z move is tied directly to a move and it's strength probably also depends on the move it's connected to

What if they:
>have the highest priority
>will hit before someone can switch out
>can't be protected

>>28557759
But weren't the gems removed purely for being OP?

>>28559596
Yeah, but they buffed other moves. Especially acrobatics.

Z-moves are there own separate thing with a set power likely

>>28558139
Unless Z moves specifically bypass detect and protect, yeah that is how it works.

>>28559642
Yeah, but the net use will be pretty much the same

Unless there is something I don't get

>>28559692
No one really knows right now. But from what we've seen they aren't even very good

>>28557759
I gues it'll depend on the move, since we know that there are different Z-Moves of the same type I'm guessing they'll have different secondary effects and some might be worth the item slot.

It just seems weird. Meta wise they don't seem like they will be much different from the initial introduction of gems.
But they didn't push gems like a main feature of the game. Why is this shit worth making a roleplay device out of?

>>28557941
It has to know a move out of the 4, same type as the Z crystal. For example, a pokemon that can use a variety of different type moves will be able to use different type Z moves if it holds the correct type crystal of course. But it MUST know a move of the type out of the 4 moves.

>>28559827
Cause the starters will have unique ones. And the legendaries probably. They're just flashy anime moves to pander to the people that like that kinda idea

>>28559863
Wouldn't it be cooler to give those animations to actual new moves, not just one shot gimmick moves?

>>28559827
probably just because they are flashier and cooler than just a gem that it's not really different from any other battle item, aesthetically at least.

I don't think their viability in competitive formats was ever a factor they took into consideration when they designed them. They will probably be pretty damn good moves for the main story anyways.

>>28559899
Yes. Yes it would

>>28559899
but if they did so, it wouldn't make much sense if every pokemon were simply able to learn those moves, so they would have to choose a handful of pokemon they'd give these cool new moves and it would be megas all over again: The already cool pokemon get the new stuff, some of the more forgotten ones get them too, and the ones that weren't as popular and didn't get anything new would remain forgotten.

Making them special moves and requiring an object to use them makes it so every pokemon can have access to them in a way that makes at least a bit more sense, and it gives every pokemon the possibility to shine

Z-moves will either be blanket banned competitively or they'll be allowed but only like 3 will be viable

Wait I just thought of something interesting. Magikarp, Unown, Wobbuffet, etc. can all hold their crystals and do things other then their gimmicks moves. I think I may have found a cool use for Z moves now

The description of Z-moves states that they "upgrade" the move the Pokémon already knows. What if that means the Z-move itself doesn't have a Base Power, but it instead adds a certain number to the base power of the move you already know? That also means you don't have to know just any move of the certain type, but a DAMAGING move.

>Z-Inferno Overdrive based on Fire Blast = 160BP
>Z-Inferno Overdrive based on Flame Charge = 100BP
>Z-Inferno Overdrive based on Sunny Dsy = Fail

This could be why the showcased Z-moves we've seen so far have been so weak; they were used by low-levelled shitmons who didn't know any stronger moves.

>>28560193
This is what I'm hoping for. It'd be a waste for them to be added and be like 75 BP on average

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>>28557759
>giving up an item that benefits all your other moves/establishes a niche for a one time move that might not even be a guaranteed OHKO

>>28560240
Just wait until some new ability or item shows up that lets a pokemon use a Z move as much as they want and it boosts the power. Then it's fucking chaos

>>28560264
A pokemon can't hold a Z crystal and an item at the sane time

Maybe if unburden is affected by z-crystals, which I kinda doubt.

Other than that I can only see z-crystals actually being used with and sort of frequency if perhaps there are uber stat-boosting ones.

>>28560315
I mean like a key item. Some postgame thing that you get and breaks the meta

>>28559538
>trainer has to do a little dance first
honestly, they should have the lowest priority. And definitely not hit before switch-out. Passing protect is fine, though.

>>28560397
>select Z move online
>start dance
>your pokemon already fainted from the brave bird that just wasted you

>>28559863
>and the legendaries probably

We already saw them, they're sunsteel strike and moongeist beam. core enforcer is probably a z move too

>>28560489
We saw those used as regular moves though. With no stone or dance. I bet Aether or someone gives you the stone for more powerful versions of their signature moves