>Being the avatars of life and death Xerneas and Yveltal are

I wouldn't be surprised, hes a pretty big guy

He's a super robot. Of course he's the strongest

>>28552081
>Big A

Fuck off.

Mega Rayquaza is stronger. The Primals are at least stronger than Xerneas and Yveltal.

>>28552081
Zygarde is the master of Solgaleo and Lunala (they represent soul and spirit, which combine in the physical hermaphrodite body, Zygarde) too
Is the Azoth incarnated, master of Solgaleo, Lunala, Xerneas and Yveltal. He is life, death, order, evolution, nature, Earth, a GOD

So... yes

>>28552081

Of course he is. Didn't you see when heuse Dragon Ascent/Giga Impact/Zygarde Penetration on the Monolith-Zygarde? That big fucker launched rocket boosters from his feet.

Perfect Zygarde is clearly one of the strongest Pokemon in the entire universe. I'd say he's only out-classed by Arceus with all plates.

>>28552180
The autism, it's too concentrated.

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>>28552171
1
>Mega fug
>stronger

2 He's talking about lore, retarded. According to Delta episode, even regular Rayquaza is stronger than P-Groudon and P-Kyogre

>lore
Zygarde > Xerneas = Yveltal > Rayquaza > Primal Groudon = Primal Kyogre > Groudon = Kyogre

>>28552139 (You) (You) (You)

>>28552081
>Avatars of life and Death
>the only Pokemon to decide if a Mon lived or died was Ho-oh
>the only monst to create Pokemon were Arceus and Ho-oh
>the only Mon to save the world was Rayquaza
>Unown helped create the universe
>Yveltal and Xerenas are powerful

I love this transformer!

>>28552237
>According to Delta episode, even regular Rayquaza is stronger than P-Groudon and P-Kyogre

We have no idea how Rayquaza handled the two the first time. He might have had a Primal form of his own.

>>28552180
Hi Lockstin, get some sleep, your theories are getting crazy again

>>28552081
>trio-master

Get this bulbapedia fanon shit out of here.

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Arceus rules the universe and left this guy to rule the planet

Just look at that crown

Kang 'n Sheit

>>28552321
No. They say absolute nothing about another Rayquaza forms, only mega.

>Rayquaza kick P-Groudon and P-Kyogre ass
>Mega-Rayquaza kick P-Groudon and P-Kyogre ass SO hard that they loss their primal forms

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>"project AZOTH" in ORAS
>Azoth in Magearna movie
>Azoth is made by sun (soul), moon (spirit) and cube (a hermaphrodite body)

>no Pokemon Z, but Sun & Moon
>"Zygarde cube" to obtain the Zygarde body
>Perfect Z have wings which represent Xerneas and Yveltal (X and Y, women and men, life and death too)

>people still in denial so hard about azoth

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>>28552081
PIERCE

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>>28552786
THE

>>28552081
>Being the avatars of life and death Xerneas and Yveltal are the most powerful beings in existence baring the Creation Trio in terms of lore
They're just creatures that can give and take life more easily. They don't control who or when is born or who or when someone dies.

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>>28552860
HEAVENS

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Hail Giratina

>>28552081
Tell me what exactly makes Xern and Yvel so powerful. They're hardly the "avatars" of life and death. They more just represent that idea. They can only use a power related to life/death when they dying. They're more akin to traditional legendaries like Ho-oh and Lugia. They're just powerful mons that, unlike the weather and creation trio, don't actually govern anything. They just kind of link to a concept.
Zygaude on the other hand, I imagine it to be extremely powerful but not on the level of the creation trio. It seems more weather trio tier.

Gods of Heaven and Gods of the Earth
Let everything be as it should be
Thus shall it be!

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>>28552081
Reminder
Z-100% is a killer, he keeps attacking a powerless ginger man even after his weapon was destroyed and couldnt do anything else
Lysandre should be in prison, if you support Zygarde you support capital punishment

>>28552081
The Original Dragon should be stronger than Zygarde as well.

>>28553117
Zygarde is like a giant fucking cop

>>28552081
>avatars of life and death
>have no lore whatsoever
>no role in the story except being glorified batteries
>no Z version for the XYZ trio to actually interact with each other in
>Zygarde's new gimmick has nothing to do with Xerneas and Yveltal lorewise
>the only thing that actually connects Zygarde to Xerneas and Yveltal is Aura Break, one of the most worthless abilities in the game and now completely inferior to Power Construct

They dropped the ball so fucking hard for these 3, it's disgraceful. I'm honestly scared to see how they handle Solgaleo and Lunala.

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>>28553117
>Zygarde
>weather trio tier

>>28552081
Ultra Beasts

>>28553117
Pretty sure Ho-oh and Lugia govern the sky and sea.

Though a million legendaries do that

>>28552986
I'm still made they didn't give the steven in oras a shiny metagross

>>28553168
>Original Dragon
Hooooly shit I haven't thought about him in forever.

>>28553165
>if you support Zygarde you support capital punishment
>capital punishment for gingers

Sounds legit to me

>>28553174
Black Lives Matter just got triggered

>>28552081
>Being the avatars of life and death Xerneas and Yveltal are the most powerful beings in existence baring the Creation Trio in terms of lore
They aren't the avatar nor rulers of life and death, they can just manipulate those aspects with great ease.
Their relation to life/death is more similar to Celebi's relation to time rather than Dialga's.

>>28553243
Perfect zygarde is the reason why jynx is so rare, he's also best bros with lunatone

>>28552081
What's funny is, even though he has more raw power, they both have type advantages on him. Xerneas's Fairy type beats his Dragon type and Yveltal's Flying type beats his Ground type.

>>28553168
>the original dragon
>literally my mons power battery divided in a heat battery and a electric battery
>stronger than Tengen Toppa Perfect Zygarde

>>28553186
?? This is what Pokemon has pretty much needed.
Instead of being predictable and doing a typical Z story line where Pokemon 3 has to sort out weaker mons 1 and 2 for yet ANOTHER balancing act in a Pokemon game, they've changed the formula and broken the mold.
again.
I also got really sick of every single damn trio having back story. I had missed the simplicity of mons like the Bird trio, Ho-oh and Lugia duo, Lati duo, etc, where backstory is minimal. It makes them more alluring and interesting because they're almost like blank slates, and they don't seem forced.
It's great to see them do something unique and have the 3rd member of a trio be more than just the posterboy of the upgraded gen 6 art 3 game which now can never exist.

>>28553212
>govern
nope.
A lot of people have the misconception that every legendary ust be the guardian or God, etc, of some aspect of the world or reality but that just isn't the case. Ho and Lu barely have any lore and without looking it up, tell me honestly how they're connected to each other. The only connection I can make is that they're box legends and that they both have towers dedicated to them. But that's it. They never even interact and only one is a trio master (Lugia is never in-canon referred to as the birds master, this is only in the anime). They seem so disconnected to me. I like it actually, it's interesting.

>>28553243
Fuck off tripfag

>>28553311
No, comparing XY box legends to the ones in GSC aren't good.

Back story was minimal, but Kore was heavy. People talked about them. They seemed interesting. The XY legends (and also the Kanto ones) are legendary because we know the game says they are

>>28553276
>They aren't the avatar nor rulers of life and death
You are right, just avatars, not rulers
because that's Zygarde :^)

Even if Zygarde is stronger than Mega-Fug, he's a fucking useless bastard.
>THE SUPER ANCIENT POKEMON THREATEN TO DESTROY THE WORLD BY FLOODING/DROUGHT
>Doesn't show up, leaves it to Some kid/Fug.
>INSANE MAN ATTEMPTS TO USE THE POWER OF THE CREATION TRIO TO CREATE A NEW UNIVERSE
>Don't worry, this 12 year old has it handled.
>I WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD WITH THE POWER OF MY FUSED DRAGON
>Nah, not worth my time
>MY LIFE IS JUST COLD BITTER HATRED, I WILL DESTROY EVERYONE WHO I DISLIKE WITH MY BIG FLOWER CANNON
>Zzzzz...
>OH SHIT, THIS METEORITE COULD THREATEN LIFE ON THIS PLANET
>I don't care.
>Get this... Aliens.
>Okay, now I'm interested.

>>28552081
zygarde is order of the planet itself, putting him above every legendary besides the creation trio and arceus. lorewise

>>28552237
Nothing ever implies that Xerneas and Yveltal are above the other legendaries in strength since there's no point of comparison. Stop pulling shit out of your ass. Furthermore, we have no idea how Rayquaza handled the Primals the first time, there's no reason to assume base Fug is stronger than both of them.

>>28553361
I don't think they're connected, but I do know at least Ho-oh is sky related. Like it rarely ever lands on anything and is always flying. I admit the Lugia thing is much more of an assumption though. I mean, its swimming in the intro and found in a sea cave.

Its actually odd how Suicune got more lore than Lugia

>>28553385
Oh, and don't even get me started when it comes to the side games
>PLANET FALLING INTO THE FUCKING SUN
>It's fine, prophecy and some such bullshit, don't worry about it, it's not like even fucking Yveltal will try and help in the end.

>>28553377
>but lore was heavy
lol
Their story is that they're literally just two big birds that used to sit on towers, except one tower burned down. So deep, right?
There's almost nothing to them. Ho-oh only has a little bit of added backstory with it creating the Beasts but that's not exactly deep lore either.
It's about as deep as two mons with the ability to revive and kill everything which were used to create a big death machine.

>>28553361
>Lugia is never in-canon referred to as the birds master

Sea Spirit's Den japanese name reference Lugia, so...

Isn't the only canonical "trio master" as far as box art legendaries go Rayquaza?

>>28553418
Lugia used to fly around the sky though, it just hid in a cave after it got pissed and blew up the Whirl Islands. Hell, Lugia lorewise is just a really strong, really old bird that's worshipped, even Ho-oh has more to it.

>>28553445
Oh really? Huh, I never knew.
I wonder why it took the game's so long to confirm or at least reference his connection to them? You think they just borrowed from the anime?

>>28553473
Lugia itself was burrowed from the movie.

>>28552081
u wot

Mewtwo is still the most powerful Pokémon in the combat sense.

>>28553445
Not really. Wadatsumi is a sea dragon in Japanese folklore, whereas Lugia is still called Lugia in Japanese. It might be a shout out to the anime or something, but there's basically nothing that indicates it's the trio master otherwise.

>>28553462
Ho-oh is for the Gerbils.

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>>28553489
>believing this

>>28553473
Yes, the anime might draw a lot from scrapped plot lines.
I'm pretty sure there must have been a Pokemon Z plot line they adapted heavily.

>>28553466
One thing I always found odd is that it seems Lugia is WAY stronger than Ho-oh. I'm not talking about stats, they dont really contribute to lore.
Lugia is always describes as this forbidden beast with the ability to create storms just by flapping its wings.Ho-oh gets no such description. No Solar Flares whenever it flies. It's just a rainbow bird.
Am I the only one that kinda likes how they made them unequal? It's really off the wall. They're almost like polar opposites. I'm surprised people don't ask more questions about them because they're super mysterious.

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I'm beginning to question the accuracy/canon of the movies after watching the Hoopa movie.

When exactly did they stop giving a fuck when making the Pokemon movies?

>>28553515
It's true though.

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>>28553542

>>28553525
They vary in quality and the first few get looked at through nostalgia goggles too much.

>>28553519
Ho-oh just seems benevolent to me. In Colosseum it blew up the bad guy's helicopter as he was trying to escape, and in that game and HGSS, it joins you after you prove yourself worthy to it.

>>28553410
>we have no idea how Rayquaza handled the Primals the first time
Except that they tell us that Rayquaza has kicked P-Groudon/Kyogre ass several times without Mega and there's absolute no indication about Rayquaza having another form

>>28553525
>Implying the movie franchise hasn't already dwindled into a corporate, soulless mess

>>28553441
They actually have a connection to the people they interacted with born from more than being the thing that created that thing. Like the BW legendaries that are legendary because if actual legends based on the past. Yes, sitting on a tower and after the people went to war and the place burned down, they revived the Pokemon that died. That's interesting.

>>28553466
I can't deny that Lugia has very little, besides >>28553445 as a new possible thing.

>>28553519
I love how Johto is the only region where the legendaries aren't fighting. Always thought it was a part of how good Ho-oh was at keeping the peace

>>28553499
>'Mythological sea "dragon" over Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres Den '
Yeah, absolutely not Lugia

>>28553473
probably

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>>28553385
>100% Zygarde is the Saitama of the pokemon world

What exactly are the Weather Trio to begin with? They're unique, powerful creatures with similar markings across their bodies, and while Rayquaza apparently has the power to stop them, going by Delta Episode, it only showed up the first time after a meteor shower attracted it, by which point Groudon and Kyogre had already been duking it out for a while. And in RS and ORAS, it just sits it's ass on Sky Pillar even when the world is going to hell because of one of said legendaries.

>>28553655
Still not proof that it's the trio master when only the anime movie has implied as such.

>>28553643
I see where you're coming from but it's subjective really. I personally really like how ambiguous Xern and Yvel were. Maybe they could've had just a little bit of back story but, I'm just really happy to see a more simple legendary duo. As much as I love how crazy the trios of gen 3, 4 and 5 were, I was really missing the simplicity of gens 1 and 2.

>>28553519
Both of these pokemon are overexaggerated. It's said that Ho-Oh beings luck forever and only shows itself to righteous trainers, while Lugia, fitting for a giant flying creature that lives under the sea, is associated with storms, etc.
Besides the relationship between Ho-Oh and the dogs which is not proven as well, all their powers are just folklore.

>>28553730
I'm more pissed that you first see and capture them in Team Flare's base without any real buildup. Even the Johto Chickens gave a "legendary" feeling as you went to the bottom of the sea to find a slumbering, giant sea monster, or climbed up a huge tower for Ho-oh to come flying down when you reached the top.

>>28553734
>Ho-Oh and the dogs which is not proven as well
But like... didn't it revive them? I thought that was pretty significant.
>all their powers are just folklore.
Since when? Just because the game might start off their bios with "it's said that.." or "lgend has it...", that doesn't mean they don't have those powers. Pokemon do more than use moves.

>>28553734
Well, no, Ho-oh showing itself to righteous trainers was backed up in game based on what you had to do to be worthy of seeing it. The lame part was Lugia getting that same treatment grafted in it.

>>28553730
I agree. I like the simpler legends, if they had a but of lore through the reagon they'd be top tier honestly. But right now it's just eh for me.

>>28553716
Who's Genos and Tatsumaki?

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I can see 100% Zygarda pulling off a Emperor of Mankind move after attaining his form and launch a Great Crusade to unfuck all of the other legendaries mayor malfunctions and bring eternal peace to the world under a benevolent dictatorship.

>>28553734
You might as well say all Groudon can do is make it really sunny, since that's all we see

>>28553801
Mewtwo and Mega Fug

I guess Mewtwo fits the psychic thing better, but I can't help but imagine Rayquaza as being a cocky, tsundere piece of shit.

>>28552081
Zygarde is an arbitrator between the two, not a direct master

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>>28553848
>tsundere dragons

>>28553734
>Besides the relationship between Ho-Oh and the dogs which is not proven as well
Ho-oh brought them back from the dead and the reason why they run all over the place is because they're searching for Ho-oh. You can't even unlock Ho-oh in Crystal until you catch the 3 beasts. The connection's pretty fucking clear.

>>28553519
The two seem to be loosrly based on the Japanese gods of Creation and Destruction - a phoenix and a dragon

Which also means that technically Xerneas and Yveltal were beaten to the punch

>>28553953
>revive 3 dead doggos
>fuck off and fly away leaving them to spend decades running around the country searching for you
Is Ho-oh the worst dad ever?

>>28552081
>>28552237
t. retard

Xerneas and Yveltal never showed any ability near life-wipe/planetary on the scale of Kyogre and Groudon, Rayquaza is above both of them. Get your shitty meme legends out of there, best Yveltal feat is regional and in a movie he wiped a quarter of a forest.

>>28554002
>Ho-oh's shiny isn't black

>>28553519
Lugia is super powerful but Ho-oh has something that nothing else has, probably not even Arceus or Xerneas, which is the ability to resurrect the dead.

Is funny how Groudon and Kyogre fit better with Zygarde

>Groudon and Kyogre terraformed Zygarde's world
>they created the biotope for the biocenose
>they are fed by nature energy, the earth (Zygarde) power
>their "super forms" (primal) are activated with that energy
>"alpha" and "omega" are letters forming part of "azoth"

But, Rayquaza is just a "guardian", it doesn't create anything, it just fly over there, if you endanger his territory, you are dead.
>Zygarde type resist water, ground and fire too
>that red-green-blue pattern fits too

That's all
(also it have that stupid marks like Groudon and Kyogre... yeah)

>>28553953
That's actually a little sad.

>>28554097
Yeah, Arceus created life, but only Ho-oh brought it back.

Plus, Arceus had the Unown to help.....though that makes me wonder if the Unown were created by Arceus just so they could help create the Creation Trio

>>28552180
who let Gene Ray onto 4chan

>>28554233
>But, Rayquaza is just a "guardian", it doesn't create anything, it just fly over there, if you endanger his territory, you are dead.
Rayquaza is the guardaian of the sky. You can give him "air' in the same sense that you give Kyogre "water" and Groudon "land".

Now, what touches both land and water and literally above them both? Air.

>>28552081
When have any of the things you listed actually appeared in canon? Post some citation instead of just claiming
> lol hes god of death can kill all mortals on earth

50% Zygarde has a 600 BST. I imagine perfect Zygarde will have 700 BST.

I would put the legends as:

Arcues
Original Dragon
Mega fug
Creation Trio
Zygarde/Black Kyurem/White Kyurem
Primal Groudon/Kyogre
All other 680/670 BST legends
Other legends

Mega fug and the Primals might seem to be higher but they're lore doesn't make them out to be as powerful as Arcues and the original Dragon were made out to be. The Creation Trio also gets hyped in their lore much more than other legends.

>>28554362
Arceus and the Creation Trio are top dogs now though, all 4 are universe level.
OG Dragon is unknown, put probably really fucking strong seeing as Zekrom and Reshiram instantly destroyed the country when clashing.
Mega Fug is probably at a similar level to OG Dragon considering how the meteor busting feat puts it at solid country level to begin with.

>>28554362

The original dragon is a complete shitter though. I'd put the rulers of all of space and time above fug as well.

>>28554362
Original dragon is hot garbage, the only thing it has going for it is that it is labelled as "strongest dragon" whatever the hell that means, mind you that was before megas were even a thing.

Weather trio has planetary feats, creatio trio universal, pixie trio is equal to at least Dialga/Palkia. All other legends only goes up to country/continent at best based on canon. Therefore they don't compare

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We never see Xerneas and BaconBird at their full strength so it's up to speculation

>>28554440
Weather trio are lifewiper, they can't bust a planet on their own. Rayray's probably high continent level I think, I haven't really kept up with whatever calcs autists have been doing.

Depends

Sphere of Influence =/= Individual Power

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Xerneas and Yveltal never seemed to "rule" over life and death so much as they are protectors/avatars of it.

They're assuredly powerful, and can do some things with those powers (Xerneas seems to be able to grant "life force", or can reinvigorate things, Yveltal is good at destruction) but I never got the notion that they are literally life and death personified

>>28554309
>You can give him "air' in the same sense that you give Kyogre "water" and Groudon "land".

No, because Groudon created the continents and Kyogre created the seas. Rayquaza just LIVE IN the air. That Emerald/ORAS intervention is just a powerfull pokemon defending it home

>Now, what touches both land and water and literally above them both? Air.
Where Groudon and Kyogre created their shit? In the Earth.

>>28554440
>pixie trio is equal to at least Dialga/Palkia
you wish
There is no evidence that humas exist anywhere else than PokeEarth. They're planetary.

>>28554477
If you account SMD then Ray was calced to star level but that doesn't even matter since life wiping is already planetary range, outclassing every legend not named creation trio/pixie trio.

>>28554463
>>28554519

Yveltal life wipe meme needs to stop, it has never done that and the only thing we even seen from it is Oblivion Wing killing things on contact, it nowhere near as OP as autists are making it out to be. The best feat was a weapon made out of its energy, overhyped garbage is the only word to describe it

>>28554362
Mewtwo should be at the top

>>28554535
What does humans only living on earth have to do with the creation trio creating a universe? DPPt is the game that stated the pixie trio combined is around Dialga/Palkia

>>28554556
oshit, star level? Have a link to the calc?

Also, didn't Arceus job hard as fuck in that game?

>>28554586
Mewtwo's best feat is casually creating country wide storms. Unless you count Shadow Mewtwo from Pokken.

>looks like a giant mech
>still a dragon

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>>28554638

>>28552081

No and Game freak haven't introduce a omnipotent Pokémon yet.

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>>28554629
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/and-the-world-goes-round-pokemon-super-mystery-dungeon.33405/


SMD feats made Rayquaza just a tad bit too much, but in mainline games what it displayed still outclasses non gen 4 Legends

>>28553720
>it only showed up the first time after a meteor shower attracted it, by which point Groudon and Kyogre had already been duking it out for a while

The meteor broke Groudon and Kyogre's seals. You need both to appear for Rayquaza to show up, that's why he didn't come in RS and ORAS.

>>28553361
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEEs5V9Frgk
The CG from the Japanese commercial for HGSS shows Lugia with Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, and Ho-Oh with Entei, Raikou, and Suicune.

Still, you're correct in that Lugia had no association with the legendary birds at first outside the second movie. But the games have occasionally taken material introduced in the anime and "canonized" it. The problem comes when people associate the rules of one form of media with another. For example, everyone thought that the "You have to be 10 years old to be a Pokémon Trainer" rule applied to everything, when it was something that was only mentioned for the anime. Thanks to that, people assumed every playable character was 10 years old, despite the fact that Red is said to be 11 years old in the Japanese and North American manuals. I remember seeing people point out all the in-game trainers who looked younger than 10. That's how much the anime had an impact on what we perceive as "canon" in the games.

>>28552081
His purpose is to protect the planet and its ecosystem. So technically that would involve protecting beings like Groudon and Kyogre, so yes, he's probably the most powerful terrestrial pokemon who is responsible for maintaining the balance after the dawn of creation. I wouldn't be surprised if every inhabited planet in the Pokemon universe has its own Zygarde protector in some way, shape or form.

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>>28552180
lol wut
>hermaphrodite
even more lol wut

>>28554853
>Thousands of years ago, the world was overflowing with natural energy which Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre constantly fought over, causing endless disaster for the people caught helpless in the face of their great power. Then, a storm of meteoroids fell upon a waterfall that a tribe of Dragon-type-Pokémon users had long called home. The meteors shone with a rainbow light, and, apparently in response to their light, Rayquaza descended from the heavens and quelled the pair of Primal Pokémon with its overwhelming power, bringing peace back to the world. The people of Hoenn took to revering Rayquaza as their savior.
The second meteor, which also unlocked Rayquaza's ability to Mega evolve I headcanon Jirachi was inside and responded to the people's wishes to give it that power broke their seals, the first time they had just been fighting for an uncertain amount of time already.

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>>28554858
>Lugia bird master confirmed

Good

>>28554759
Oh, fuck Mystery Dungeon's massive Rayquaza boner. Normal Rayquaza destroyed a meteor like, 10 times larger than the one in ORAS without a Mega in Red Rescue team, just fuck that

>>28554362
I think the Creation Trio initially have their powers sealed and you have to unlock them with something like the Red Chain for them to be universe level. It'd explain how they could be summoned by Hoopa despite how Palkia is supposed to have control over space.

>>28554948
Wasn't the Red Chain just supposed to let them retain their actual power? That's why Cyrus just gives you the Masterball, Pokeballs have a limit preventing them from using actual universal techniques.

Also, didn't that trio not come from rings? They were just in a weird cloud above Hoenn.

>>28554997
There's a dimension rip above Hoenn but they still come from portals. Maybe Dialga and Palkia willingly let Hoopa send them in, I dunno.

>>28554858
>that entire commercial
MUH
DICK

>>28554997
Creation Trio is still summoned from Hoopa's rings in ORAS. The dimensional cloud is a byproduct of the forced contact with their plane of existence.

>>28555058
>>28555052
Eon Ticket Lati@s also has the ring and fluffy pink battlefield, it might just be laziness. Or Dialga and Palkia just wanted to see what was up with the little faggot trying to drag them out.

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>>28554923
>that headcanon
Not bad. I can certainly see it fitting cleanly in the lore.

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>>28552081
Reminder that the Unown are stronger than most legendaries

>>28552159
You ok, anon?

>>28555114
There's an image floating around somewhere that goes a little more detail into it, it seems like I didn't save it though.

>>28555108
Lati@s don't have the intro of being dropped out of a Hoopa ring. Just the background.

Dialga and Palkia are also shown coming out of ring portals in official art.

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>>28554629
Mewtwo is strong not only because of its immense psychic power, but also because it was engineered solely for the purpose of combat. When the Pokédex says that "its battle abilities were raised to the ultimate level" it isn't referring to game stats and numbers, but skill in combat.

Things like speed of reaction, the intensity and precision of its attacks, the ability to adapt to the situation and make the best decisions, etc. All of these traits are on point for Mewtwo because that's what it was made to be like. Added to this, Mewtwo has plenty of raw power as well.

Many of the other legendaries are beasts. A Pokémon like Primal Groudon may be able to surpass regular (not mega) Mewtwo in terms of raw power, however it is an animal, and knows nothing of finesse in combat. All it would do is shoot fire and slash wildly in the general direction of a target.

At first glance Mewtwo may not seem like it has a particular gimmick (e.g Palkia having power over space, Kyogre having power over the sea), but that's not entirely true. Mewtwo is a fighting machine. Its "gimmick" is battling.

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>Full Power Zygarde ends up bitch slapping Mega Fug
>ORAS fanbabby tears flow like the breaking of levies

Make it so

>>28555199
>ORAS fanbaby
They exist? ORAS is trash

>>28555171
So what makes it stronger than Genesect

>>28555271
Watch the movie

>>28555171
Reeks of genwunner, but fortunately for you Mewtwo was thrown a bone in SMD.

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>This thread

I got love for ya, /vp/, but damn..

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>>28555323
There's literally nothing suggesting genwunner status besides your own genwun bogeyman paranoia.

Anyway, if PMD counts then Pokkén should too.

>>28555369
SMD has a better feat than that, but the fact you posted a long list of intangibles in order to fanboy Mewtwo is hilarious.

>>28554233
Maybe he fits both pairs? Land, Water, Life and Death = Ecosystem

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>>28553165
>tfw ginger Hitler got BTFO by a little girl and her gundam

>>28555545
That's what I'm saying

Groudon + Kyogre = biotope
Xerneas + Yveltal = biocenose
biotope + biocenose = Ecosystem = Zygarde

how other legendaries can be complete?

>>28555648
>how other legendaries can be complete?
By being better

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>>28555648
By creating galaxies.

>>28555681
>thread about Earth's legendaries
>posting about dimensional legendaries

>>28555308
>ashnime
>lore thread

>>28556031
yeah that's the joke

>>28555681
If it can do this then why does it need Unown

>>28555056
Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_feHoRowWg
FireRed/LeafGreen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO9wsSGn85w
Diamond/Pearl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWbVudWdkIc&t=1m50s
Platinum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc8AFyJtEVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0fc2ZBivNc
Black/White
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z80his5oJAM&t=1m
Black 2/White 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39XPeDrE2rI&t=3m54s

There's also an additional one for HeartGold/SoulSilver showcasing more of Entei/Raikou/Suicune.

>>28556217
>that RS one
>that FRLG one

I am going to watch these all, bless you anon. I wouldn't mind if you found the other Johto one since it's my fav region

>>28556300
Found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGltaNmgDgg

>>28556433
Baller.
Thank you kind anon

>>28554945
The scales in OrAs are fucked up. The meteor is supposed to be 6 miles, but if it is, then mega ray is a mile, and the trainer would be hundreds of feet

Post yfw Zygarde is the arceus of the UB dimension.

>>28555271

Really, nothing much. But its implied that Mewtwo actually knows how to strategize while Genesect is just a powerful bug with a cannon on its back

>>28556677
You wish

>>28553008
i kek'd

>>28556576
It was supposed to be six mikes? How could they fuck up that badly?

>>28556693
I missed all of Genesect lore since I suppose that only gets triggered via event, so I really know nothing about its implied in game power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWDY2Mqqzjg

>>28553282
>what is thousand arrows

>>28552081

No, Hoopa is!

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>>28553852
Yes, but Perfect Zygarde is stronger than Xerneas and Yveltal based on official lore.
>>28554362
It has 216 base HP so if all other 50% form stats stay the same it will have over 700 base stats.

>>28552573
>>28552237

Richard...

>>28552081
Don't forget Mega Fug.

>>28552081

If anything he's only Trio master over Life and Death by default. He's literally the protector of Earth's balance as a whole. Seems to be a theme with Dragons being protectors of the balance, with Ray and Zinnia saying she's all about that balance.

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>>28552081

GUYS

What if Zygarde was the one who sealed away all the legendaries because they were too dangerous?

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>tfw Perfect Zygarde's actual purpose is not to just be the protector of the ecosystem but be a protector of Earth as Ultra Beast slayer.

>>28552307
>the only Pokemon to decide if a Mon lived or died was Ho-oh
>the only monst to create Pokemon were Arceus and Ho-oh

what

>>28560327
Arceus created life, but from nothing

Ho-oh saw a dead Mon, and decided that it should live instead

>>28560187
>call me Richard
You really need The Richard Guide

>>28552307

Ho-Oh was resurrection. He was all about second chances AFTER life and death had passed.

>>28553385
>>I WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD WITH THE POWER OF MY FUSED DRAGON
>>Nah, not worth my time
To be fair, that one didn't really threaten the planet itself, or Pokemon ether way.

>>28553165

All Zygarde could see was that corrupting replica and determined it needed to be Z'd. Lysandre was a non-factor in its decision-making process.

Because gingers are irrelevant.

>>28560753
So he is one of those assholes that can bypass another legendary's powers

>>28553385

Zygarde likely didn't exist in the other timelines. In ORAS Kyogre and Groudon are Ray's dominion.

They weren't directly fucking with the ecosystem so much as they were terraforming, which was likely their job. He doesn't interfere with acts of nature.

Doesn't explain why the hell he couldn't assist against death flower.He's a shitty first responder, I'll give him that. Wouldn't want him to be a fireman.

>>28560811

He didn't bypass anything. If Xerneas gave them life, then Yveltal took it away, they did their jobs. He is more like a judge in a "it's not yet your time" sort of way.

>>28552557
WE

>those colors on 100%'s chest
Dude's the master of TWO trios. Mega Fug can Fug off.

>>28553385
If we take Zygarde as being one of the oldest beings on the planet and serves only to protect the planet, then only Cyrus would actually make sense for him to intervene.

The planet is a fucking tough bitch to kill off. You get extinction catastrophes, you get enormous climate changing events, but in the end the planet will remain, and life will eventually find a way to rebuild a brand new ecosystem.

Groudon/Kyogre wouldn't destroy the world, just force the living species to adapt to a new desert/ocean world. Zygarde has no reason to interfere, since life will just continue in a different way.

N and Ghetsis were in no way a threat to the planet or the environment, and neither was Lysandre in the long run.

The meteor is nothing the planet hasn't experienced before (assuming the Pokemon world went through a similar extinction event to get rid of what would became the fossil Pokemon), and hasn't bounced back already.

It's possible that Zygarde, after seeing its planet bounce up and down from all sorts of shit, has decided "why should I care if some human wants to kill 50% of life on the planet/if humans are polluting shit/if another legendary is going crazy, if everything will reset in a few million years anyway?"

Though, again, no excuse for not stepping in against Cyrus, except for the fact Zygarde likely didn't exist inside a crazy Japanese man's head at the time.

>>28553816
ONE WORLD
UNDER WOLOLOLOLO

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>>28560908
Get a load of this guy

>>28555126
only if you lump them together

>>28553385

He might be artificial. It's heavily hinted that he may be. It's entirely possible he was only made relatively recently.

Does anyone have the webm for Zygande's Dragon Pulse?

>>28560913
This.
Shit.

Also, Zygarde it had no way of knowing about Cyrus's purpose
He's just a guy who appears, summon Dialga/Palkia and... is defeated 15 minutes later

what about webm of Z GETTER SHINE SPARK

>Arceists

I think most of legendaries have a primal form or something, like Primal Dialga/Palkia and even Arceus.

There's no way a god could be captured by a faggot with a Ultra Ball. I think its real power was contained. The same goes to Regigigas. That fucking thing created three other Pokémon and merged the land together to create the continents.

>>28552081
Doggo Zygarde best Zygarde

>>28561070
Arceus has canonically never been caught to a ball by virtue of the event never being "used", so there's that. You could just think of the handed down Arceus as him lending his power.

>>28561058
I wonder if the Ultra Beasts will bring Arceus down the power ranking a bit. Arceus and the Creation trio are way too absurd, you go from planet level threats to fucking universe level threats, but the worst part is that it's never properly portrayed and Dialga pops out of Hoopa's hoops.

>>28560913
>The meteor is nothing the planet hasn't experienced before (assuming the Pokemon world went through a similar extinction event to get rid of what would became the fossil Pokemon), and hasn't bounced back already.

That seems like a pretty big assumption. Nothing implies that mass-extinction via meteor was what caused the fossilmons to die off.

>>28560981
>Zygarde had no way of knowing about Cyrus's purpose
That can be argued, but is heavily reliant on exactly HOW Zygarde can tell if the ecosystem is under threat.

Is it only in tune with stuff like plants and the soil, and can only notice a threat if those are things being threatened? Then no, Cyrus would fly right under his radar since Team Galactic did nothing to affect the environment in any way.

However, if Zygarde is in some way empathic, then Cyrus's experiments on the Lake Trio should have raised a red flag or two on the big guy. GIven that the Lake Trio were literally responsible for freewill, their agony should have been "louder", so to speak, and more noteworthy than the Pokemon used to power Lysandre's death flower.

>>28561107
Nothing comes to mind that directly states it, so as I said, it -is- an assumption. But it is canon that the planet has been pelted by meteorites before, since you can find shards of them to mutate Deoxys and all, so I don't think it's a huge leap in logic to assume some kind of similar extinction event has occurred before.

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>>28552081
>"digimon" pokemon is the strongest pokemon in the pokeverse
What does gamefreak mean by this?

>>28555171
>Mewtwo is strong not only because of its immense psychic power, but also because it was engineered solely for the purpose of combat.
Isn't that movie only? I don't remember the burned building diaries really making that apparent. They were jut experimenting on Mew and a strong Pokemon was the byproduct.

>>28561153
>HOW Zygarde can tell if the ecosystem is under threat.
I think it's more about the life/death balance. If you try to mess with it directly, Zygarde appears.

The system of nature is protected by Mega fug.

>>28554062
>Xerneas and Yveltal never showed any ability near life-wipe/planetary on the scale of Kyogre and Groudon
>implying Groudon and Kyogre showed power of that level

>>28561185
>Isn't that movie only? I don't remember the burned building diaries really making that apparent.
If you take Origins, even if it's shit, as a somewhat canon, you can consider Mewtwo engineering for combat because of the Mega power created especially for him by Fuji. I think we can consider Origins part of XY/ORAS timeline parallel to gens III-IV-V timeline, like the world said by Zinnia

>>28560949
Still. You could lump together every legendary barring Arceus and the Creation Trio, and an alphabet of Unown could still just write them out of existence.

>>28561189
That makes sense.

I think it might be safe to say if Lysandre planned on using his weapon to wipe away all life on the planet, then that would be cause for Zygarde to step in.

>>28561153
>But it is canon that the planet has been pelted by meteorites before, since you can find shards of them to mutate Deoxys and all, so I don't think it's a huge leap in logic to assume some kind of similar extinction event has occurred before.

Actually it's a pretty huge leap in logic since small meteorite impacts have absolutely no correlation to larger impacts, including ones capable of inducing a mass-extinction event.

The Earth has also been pelted by tons of meteorites but that doesn't somehow give credence to the theory that a meteor impact killed off the dinosaurs. The two have nothing to do with each other. The presence of some sort of massive crater denoting an extremely large impact is what is necessary to determine whether a meteor impact capable of triggering a mass-extinction event occurred. "We get hit by meteorites all the time, therefore we might have been hit by a massive meteor capable of decimating most of the planet's life in the past" isn't very scientific. You need to back that kind of assumption up with actual evidence and facts. Otherwise it's less of an assumption and more of a headcanon.

>>28561096
I don't think they will be stronger than Arceus, but perhaps they are immune to Arceus influence, since they are not creations of it's realm.

>>28561185
Crystal dex entry: "Said to rest quietly in an undiscovered cave, this Pokémon was created solely for battling."

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We may not have the proof, but we have assumptions that all of this happened.

>>28561228
>it's less of an assumption and more of a headcanon
Aren't headcanons already assumptions? You're just assuming stuff from a series through little (if any) information provided to you, and creating a theory surrounding it.

I'm not trying to come up with a rock solid scientifically accurate timeline of the Pokemon planet, just speaking in very broad strokes and filling in any holes with the more familiar real world events. We know the Ice Age was a thing in the Pokemon world, so it's not out of this world to believe some similar event to the extinction of the dinosaurs had occurred.

Yes, small meteorites have no relation to large ones. Yes, the biggest case for a relatively large scale impact we have are the dozens of craters at Meteor Falls, but none of them look large enough to cause a worldwide extinction event.

But clearly something happened to cause several Pokemon species to go extinct at some point in time, and it's hard to imagine things like Tyrantrum or Rampardos or Aurorus to just slowly die off naturally due to natural climate changes, as opposed to a sudden climate change brought about by a catastrophic event. Granted, this doesn't necessarily have to be a meteor, and could very well have been a volcano eruption, solar flare, or hell, just a legendary Pokemon getting too antsy and deciding to fuck shit up.

The point I was trying to make was, unless the meteorite was big enough to literally crack the planet in half, Zygarde wouldn't have much cause to think this could be end of all life on the planet forever.

>>28552081
Just curious, but is it confirmed that Zygarde will remain in its Complete Forme, even after the battle when its HP is still 50% or less?

>>28553489
Mewtwo is just some guy in a cave

It goes

Arceus
Creation Trio
Zygarde
Fug
Groudon and Kyogre
Ultra Beasts
Mewtwo
Other legendaries

If we're taking everything as canon isnt Mewtwo Mega Fug tier?

Anime Deoxys = Fug
Manga Deoxys < Mewtwo

Therefore, Mega Fug ~= Mega Mewtwo

What are Mewtwo's feats in SMD?

Does anyone have an *actual* argument for Arceus being the strongest Pokémon?

Divintiy does not equal combat prowess. Just because it can create life out of nothing doesn't mean it has talent in regards to fighting. Calling it god isn't an argument.

>>28561395
Nothing confirmed on that yet, but hopefully when collecting all Zygarde cells it will be possible to keep it as permanent form.

>>28561588
In the anime it was beating the Creation Trio all at the same time without all of his plates. It was also the only legendary Pokemon that resisted Hoopa's space warping abilities.

In the manga, it was gonna destroy the universe.

In the games, it's the Pokemon with the highest BST excluding megas and primals, and we know he's getting one in the Gen 4 remakes boosting him up to 820.

>>28561588
Maybe it's only the god of one universe and its power means nothing compared to Ultra Beasts.

>>28561636
>It was also the only legendary Pokemon that resisted Hoopa's space warping abilitie
I haven't watched that movie, is there any direct statement or indication of this? Because I know there were other major legendaries not in the movie, like Ho-Oh, Mewtwo and every gen 6 legend besides Hoopa itself.

>>28561201
h..have you never played Emerald?

They literally have the power to either flood or cover with magma the whole planet.

>>28561683
Arceus shows up at the end for 10 seconds and fixes shit up for everyone

>people still think Arceus is the strongest pokemon because it's "god"

Arceus is merely a demiurge, a creator god. It's not omnipotent. Several pokemon at the moment overpower Arceus until it gets a mega or some creation forme .

>>28561714
So there's nothing to suggest that it would be able resist being pulled through a portal by Hoopa, then.

>>28561730
Why wouldn't it? Anime Arceus is immune to anything as long as he has his plates.

>>28552081
I wouldn't be surprised if Zygarde ALSO turned out to be the Trio Master of Solgaleo and Lunala.

Mega Rayquaza & Zygarde Complete Forms are pretty powerful.
I just hope Original Dragon is as powerful

>>28561638

I really hope so too, would be such a shame if Game Freak didn't treat Zygarde with the same treatmeant as other Trio Masters/3rd Legendaries.

Zygarde is becoming one of my fav mons ever

>>28561856
Zygarde might be more than that, the first official info on the Pokemon site had info on Zygarde stating that it's stronger than Yveltal and Xerneas.

Anyway, I hope they also get rid of the restriction that makes Hoopa-unbound go back to normal after a few days.

>>28561725
BST doesn't really mean shit in the long run unless you want to tell me a flaming fluffy dragon is as powerful as the being that governs time which is JUST a little more powerful than a fucking ape.

>>28552139
For you

>>28552139
So you could say that he's a Bigfella?

>>28552081
Fuck dude, the more I look at Zygarde's official art the more I want his final form.

>>28561947
He's probably a duo trio master, similar to Arceus, as Arceus is master to both the Lake Trio and Creation Trio. I really hope it's said in SM that Zygarde is connected to Solgaleo and Lunaala.

Zygarde Complete is Game Freak's answer to Transforms' Optimus Prime <3

>>28561705
They also possess energy powerful enough to disperse their giant storms/mini suns which is already >>>>nukes.
In Pokespe before they jobbed hard their punches alone could shatter landmasses and was basically a big rip everyone is fugged.

>>28560851
But that doesn't matter, both timelines have the same events.

>>28560958
Yeah, but even then when you lump them together they get to palkia/dialga power levels

>>28556171
Creating a galaxy is pretty easy compared to creating an entire universe.

>>28561096
I highly doubt they will even be Regigigas power level

>>28563815
Oh, that was a pretty easy answer

>>28552081
Yes. That as well as what >>28552180 and >>28561785 said. I mean, it's connect the dots.
There's a reason P. Zygarde looks exactly that way and that we got Sun/Moon, as it was all planned to execute the deepest lore we could possibly get. XY/ORAS weren't for nothing.
Tangela Hoopa Gurdurr Lugarugan.

>>28561705
>They literally have the power to either flood or cover with magma the whole planet.
I don't think you've played Emerald before anon.

>>28552139
FOR YOU!

>>28552237
how will Zygarde go 100%? I really hope it's permanent form like Giratina's origin, and not some gimmick where it transforms when it hits 50% hp or whatever.

>>28563922
Game Freak can't just waste such a regal design to only be a super gimmicky Zen Mode buffed up ability...

I too hope its forme somehow can remain permanent or change at will. I really hope that Zygarde gets a significant buff and not only to its HP, but all of its stats.

>>28554858
I noticed now that this shows Whitney's Miltank raping Quilava with Rollout.
Classic.

>>28564087
Reminds me of how the 29th anniversary video also showed the Whitney fight

>>28555227
>If I don't like it, no one else should like it

>>28552081
>delibird used ice shard

>>28562141
Of course it is
>>28518965
>>28518772

>>28563922
>>28563996
Perfect Zygarde is so powerfull to be used without restriction

>>28561730
Dude showed up for seconds, stopped the fabric of time and space, revived people, had time to say "stop doing shit" and walked in space going to infinite and beyond while giving no fucks.

He solved, only using his will, a problem that hoopa couldn't control and that would destroy the entire planet. There's no competition, really.

type null is probs stronger

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>>28552081

bump..?

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>>28552139

>>28563922
New ability. When Zygarde's (10% and 50%) HP goes down to half it changes formes. It recovers HP, and increases all of its stats, HP included.

Btw I'm not theorizing, that's the actual way it's going to work. Check the official website.

>>28560851
What the hell was Zygarde doing back when AZ was committing genocide?

When do we get him in the fucking game that's all I want

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>>28568442
Do we know? Only time will tell.

>>28560932
L E E P E S T D O R E
EE
E E
P P
E E
S S
T T

D D
O O
R R
E E

>>28561175
>"digimon" pokemon
Not gonna lie, this is one of my favorite memes.

>>28560327
Ho-oh resurrected the three Pokemon that died in the brass tower as entei, suicune and raiku

>>28552237
>Groudon = Kyogre
I feel myself triggered, Kyogre is the canon winner.

>>28568949
>Groudon vs Kyogre
>canon winner
no

>>28568986
Kyogre rules 70% of the planet.

>>28568127
that's pretty sad, really hope there's more to it. like, zygarde still being complete after taking enough hits to have 50% or less hp left

>>28569045
Kyogre floods 70% of the planet. Kyogre doesn't rules a shit.

>>28563890
ORAS said they could end the world as well, whata re you smoking? Yveltal and Xerneas is the ones with fake feats you idiots like to give them

>>28552081
He's a goddamn Emerald WEAPON

>>28569223
Kyogre floods 70% of Groudon territory, so it's the clear winner.

>>28569967
Groudon vs Kyogre battles never have a winner.

>>28570136
Kyogre has 70% of the victory.

>>28569803
Then who is Ruby WEAPON?

>>28570210
Yubi Zero Cum Expansion

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>>28555681
>time legendary
>creating galaxies

>>28566052
Would love that to be the case, but it has to take damage to transform and the 50% forme is significantly weaker. I hope GF changes how Zygarde works cus it will be risky to play when it is still in its 50% forme.

Anything to make it a permanent forme pls GF

>>28574178
With how strong Zygarde is, it would probably be broken if it was permanent

>>28552237
Since characters in the smash universe beat rayquaza, does this mean They too, are Gods...?

>>28577062
>Smash universe
What?

>>28578190
Smash Bros I assume

>>28552237
A Pokemon doing Rain Dance has done more to affect the world than Yveltal and Xerenas. Those two are Lugia and Ho-oh tier.

We also dont know enough about Zygarde's power level

Does it really need to spell the Z when he does the Core Enforcer?

>>28578488
>"I don't play Pokemon XY"

>>28578606
You mean the country level weapon?

>>28578606
I mean they helped power a weapon that in turn only destroyed one town, but if they were more powerful than the weapon then why would they only be used as a battery and not just be the ones destroying?

where giratina fits in the power level scale? the guy got a whole pocket dimension for himself

>>28578784
Universal

>>28578784
I think we need separate power scales for creating and destroying.

>>28578909
destroy is much easier than create

>>28578650
>Lysandre intended to use it to destroy the whole world
>country
You mean the world level weapon use it by AZ to shoot a country.

>>28578657
>one town
The gun was (almost) discharged when Lysandre used it.

>>28578784
>Universe Level
Arceus
Giratina (mirror universe)
Dialga (created new universe with Palkia)
Palkia
Uxie + Mesprit + Azelf (Apparently equal to Palkia/Dialga when together)

>Planet level
Rayquaza (wiped a planet threatening meteor on multiple occasions)
Groudon (Would life wipe the planet)
Kyogre
Deoxys (should scale off Rayquaza)
Mewtwo (Apparently Deoxys' equal in the manga)

>Country level
Ho-Oh (scales off Lugia)
Lugia (40 day storm in the pokedex)
Xerneas ( used to power a country destroying weapon)
Yveltal
Zygarde 50%

>City level
lesser trio legendaries


>>28579085
Only a country level when it was actually used in the past. You can still life wipe spamming country level attacks.

>>28579034
Not really:
Arceus: Created the universe
group of Unown: Helped. Created their own dimension
Giratina
Palkia/Dialga
Ho-oh: created life, probably harder than creating non-living things
Kyogre: created the seas
Groudon: created land
Regigigas: moved the continents
Heatran

>>28579120
This seems mostly acceptible

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>>28579120
>Lysandre wants to destroy the world but the weapon at full power only can blow a country.
[pic related]

Not all bad guys are so incompetent as Archie/Maxie

>>28579418
>my own headcanon means more than what was actually stated and happened in the game
Hilarious.

>>28579120
Discounting SMD, everyone in planet buster besides Mega Fug would only be continental tier at best, lifewiping doesn't equate to having planet busting power. And we can't exactly say Deoxys is equal to Mega Ray when we don't know how the fight went other than it was defeated (if we're assuming composite Pokemon, it was also beaten by base Ray in the anime)

>>28579467
>my own headcanon says Lysandre was wrong according literally nothing
Hilarious? A lot

>>28579600
You know besides the fact the weapon was used in the past 3000 years ago and didn't planet bust, get the fuck out of here with your fanfiction.

I suggest you actually post actual evidence and not go by your own hyperbole

>>28579120
Uxie/Mesprit/Azelf only exist to balance out Dialga/Palkia's ridiculous powers. They can't actually create universes or do anything insane, they just null out Palkia/Dialga's powers.

>>28552081
>realest nigga tier
Arceus

>real nigga tier
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina

>niggas that can hang
Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf
Darkrai
Xerneas
Yvetlal
Zygarde
Groudon
Kyogre
Rayquaza
Mewtwo

>niggas that can hang, less tho
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Pixie Legendarys

>why tho nigga tier
everyone else

>>28562141
This is an old post, but wouldn't Marshadow (if it exists) be the duo master?

>>28579237
>>28579120
Actually I take it back, Deoxys and Mewtwo need to come out of Planet busting and get in Country level with Genesect. Maybe even lower.

Also Uxie + Mesprit + Azelf just represent things. That's about it. lesser legendaries.

>>28579682
>>niggas that can hang
>Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf
>Darkrai
>Xerneas
>Yvetlal

nigga....

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>>28579653
>that guy who did not intend to destroy the world but a country fired the weapon and did not destroy the world, only one country
>so Lysandre was totally wrong about the full power that can reach the weapon

>>28579801
I would also rank Regigigas + Unova dragons as continent level? Based on their dex entries.

>>28579871
So you're saying Lysandre is more correct than what was actually shown? You seem to be smart. Kek.

>>28579871
Are you telling me Lysandre knows more about the weapon's power than the person who built and used it?

>>28579896
Oh yes, Regigigas needs to go to continent level. Unsure about the Unova dragons. They were more like the Johto birds where the legend status came from stories rather than feats.

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>>28579871
>this is planet level according to your autismo.

>>28579896
Unova Dragons can supposedly raze the planet or something based on their dex entries.

>>28579896
Pulling a continent doesn't really indicate having destructive power on that scale. Special Gigas is probably at that level, since the three Regis were able to contain Groudon and Kyogre's continent level attacks.
Unova dragons individually are country, aren't they? There was some ingame lore about a clash between the two destroying a country in a flash. Reshiram's dex entry about fucking with the world's atmosphere might give good results if you could quantify it though.

Gonna put this here since it seems active.

Zygarde being composed of cores seems to be similar to a computer. We know it balances out Xerneas and Yveltal. The colors in its chest match Lunala and Solgaleo. Those two could represent The Ghost(Mind) and the Machine(Body). Zygarde could be the link between Technology and Organics as a biocomputer and as a result be under the creation trio but above the weather trio.

>>28579896
I'm saying that there is no reason to say that Lysandre was wrong when there is no precedent on the maximum power of the weapon.
We know that you can blow a country if you want (like AZ did), also Lysandre says that the weapon can be used to destroy the whole world too. There is no reason to assume that Lysandre was wrong and nobody (even AZ) denies
Do you think Lysandre was wrong? Well, that's your assumption without real evidence

>>28579918
>AZ talking about the maximum power of the weapon
Not in XY

>>28579968
AZ shot 3000 ago =/= Lysandre shot during XY =/= Lysandre (intended) shot (full power charged)
You were paying attention to the plot or just were bitching about 3d models?

>>28580402
How could AZ possibly have a correct idea of the weapon's power? How could he measure it?

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>>28580473
Replace AZ with Lysandre in that post

>>28580402
So you're going by hyperbole instead of what's shown. You assume Lysandre is correct when so many other team leader was incorrect about their estimate. We seen what the weapon is capable of and it's not planetary.

Again, provide evidence other than hyperbole or concede.

>>28580402
If it was planetary, then the energy remained within the weapon would be so much that Xerneas/Yveltal wouldn't even be needed.
It was only used to destroy a country therefore the remaining energy would still have been more than enough to wipe out the world, but the fact it still required the powerplant + a legendary means the weapon was used at max, and at max it wasn't planet level.

>>28580593
Wait, if the Power Plant was also powering the weapon, does that mean the Gen 6 box legends aren't even country level?

Or were they there to give the weapon enough power to surpass country?

In that case, we have no idea what the levels of them are

>>28580766
They're irrelevant level because they don't do anything impressive unless you take the dex at face value

>>28580491
>so many other team leader was incorrect about their estimate.
>only Hoenn villains

>evidence
I can't prove that Lysandre was right. You can't prove Lysandre was wrong. That's a tie, anon, but tell me why Lysandre SHOULD be wrong? Show me a reason why Lysandre (for the plot) should be wrong about the full power of their weapon.
There's a reason why Maxie/Archie was wrong, Groudon/Kyogre had to be released to fight him/summon Rayquaza, what about Lysandre?


>>28580593
>remaining energy
If the weapon can destroy the entire planet, why he would charge it at full power? Makes no sense

>>28580888
Literally already disproved why he was wrong, the weapon used all its energy and was only country level. Continuing on just proves you can accept your fanfiction has been debunked.


Also the entire world was suffering from the weather, this was shown. Maxie/Archie was proven wrong on their estimate when Groudon/Kyogre proved even greater.

See, the difference is that one is shwon the other isn't. Well it is, just isn't what you're claiming it to be.

>>28579120
my ranking (MAIN games lore/story only)

>Almighty tier
Original Arceus (full power, you know)

>Universe tier
Arceus/Giratina (because Giratina is a mirror-Arceus, literally Satan)
Dialga/Palkia

>Entire planet tier
Zygarde 100%
Mega-Rayquaza

>planet surface tier
Rayquaza
Primal Groudon/Primal Kyogre
Original Kyurem?

>countries tier
B/W Kyurem
Groudon/Kyogre
Reshiram/Zekrom
Zygarde 50%
Xerneas/Yveltal
Regigigas

>capital cities
Mega-Mewtwo?
Ho-oh
Lugia
Kyurem? (weaker than Reshiram/Zekrom)

>>28580996
>Giratina on the level of Arceus
no

>>28580948
>the weapon use all its energy when AZ used it
[citation needed to pass your headcanon]

>>28581091
The fact that is was buried and had nothing left in the tank to the point it required box legends to power it.

Trying using critical thinking for once.

>>28581031
Literally why not? Giratina is Satan, Arceus opposite. It should be equal.
Only the original Arceus can be stronger, the current one is only a weakened version

>>28581120
>anon is actually so retarded

1º AZ charge his weapon to destroy a country.
2º Later, AZ shot his weapon.
3º Accordingly, the weapon was discharged.

Explain us when is specified that AZ charged the weapon at limit

>>28581248
Because every NPC comparison afterwards literally equate the weapon to the one 3000 years ago. Also AZ never intended to charge it for country you moron.

And you still can't disprove why Lyssandre is correct when no other team elader was with their estimation.

Stop going by hyperbole because your favorite legend isn't planetary

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>>28580996
>Giratina and Arceus
>Zygarde arbitrarily over Mega Fug
>Regigas in countries tier despite pulling continents
>Lugia (and Ho-oh)
on cities tier despite the 40 day storms
>Yveltal and Xerenas over REGIGIGAS when they haven't actually done anything
>Yet another inclusion of Mewtwo without Genesect or Deoxys


I can't disagree more.

>>28581248
Literally the same retard trying to wank his favortie bro, nothing to see here.

>>28581134
Satan is weaker than God

>>28581277
How is Genesect even on the level of Mewtwo and Deoxys?

>>28581267
>every NPC comparison afterwards literally equate the weapon to the one 3000 years ago.

AZ weapon maximum power = Lysandre weapon maximum power
weapon power which AZ use =/= weapon power which Lysandre use =/= weapon power that intends to use Lysandre


>no other team leader was with their estimation

>no other team leader
>Getchis about Zekrom/Reshiram power
>Getchis and Acromo about Kyurem power
>Cyrus about Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf power
>Cyrus again about Dialga/Palkia power
Gen 3 villains was wrong, all others were not wrong about their pokemon power, so there is no reason to think that Lysandre was wrong.

Stop be retarded because Gen 6 was disappointing and accept that there is no reason why his villain would be wrong

>>28581501
But "god" (Arceus) it's weakened.

Full power Arceus > Giratina = current Arceus

>>28581681
>AZ weapon maximum power = Lysandre weapon maximum power

And where are you pulling that fact from? Your ass? Lyssandre can only base his knowledge on the weapon from 3000 years ago you retard.

He was also wrong about the power at the end when he used a little bit of it to destroy a town, he though tit would be enough to kill the protag but it didn't. Guess you're too retarded to remember that though

>Kyurem
Ghetsis never claimed absurd things like ending the world.

>Cyrus
Cyrus displayed its pwoers

>Kyogre, Groudon
Displayed their planetary feat

>Lyssandre
Nothing but statements. Keep shitposting senpai, you're too retarded to come up with anything other than hyperbole.

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>>28581757
sigh

My english is literally too bad to to respond your bullshit indefinitely, so you won. Lysandre says that the weapon can destroy even the whole world, not just a country/region/whatever and absolutely nothing in the game denial that, but okay, Lysandre was wrong without reason for plot, you're right, sweetie. I'm tired of your shit.