Why does smogon ban everything they dont like?

>>28517835
You just don't understand me

t. Smogon

Smogon doesn't seem to realize that Pokemon is a strategy game.

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>Look mom, I posted it again!

>>28517835
Hey anon, there's an anything goes tier now just for you!

That image should be edited accordingly.

Because smogon is literally the metagame adapted to autistic faggots that can't play the game properly.

What are the rules for VGC?

Is it literally just "one uber?"

Sleep Clause was first introduced in Stadium desu senpai

>>28517835
>ban sand attack + double team
Fucking babies.

>>28517890
That tier was made up in a rush to stop the back lash of them banning something from their ban list (mega ray ray from ubers).
They are a hive mind that bans anything that beats some mods team but wouldn't bat an eye every time someone said rain was broken in gen 5.

>>28517835
>vgc
>imaginative

Have a (you)

>>28517929
>No duplicate items or pokemon
>No Soul Dew
>No more than 2 of the following: Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde.
>No event only mons
>everything must have the symbol that says it was hatched in XY/ORAS
Thats it.

>>28517963
I'm pretty sure they banned the fuck out of some rain abusers in gen 5

>>28518024
They sure did, but none of them would have been broken without perma drizzle.

In fact they on the verge of banning keldo for being too good in rain.

If it were up to them rain + water type moves would have been banned before they took a look at drizzle.

>>28518005
Aside from soul dew, these are the most arbitrary rule set I'v seen.

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>>28517835
They mean well. However trying to make a children's rpg a competitive game is never going to work as they intend to. There are too many variables to consider including, but not limited to: power creep every generation, rng/luck/chance that cannot be controlled, etc.

Again they mean well, but they are not without bias.
>>28517963
this anon brings a good point in that when they vote to ban stuff, only a select few people are allowed to vote. Those few people vote the same because of their social standing. The moderators have a close knit group that doesn't let outsiders in. I remember one such vote for Mega-Mawile or something. One person's reasoning was that they didn't want to change their team to beat Mega-Mawile not that they considered it too strong or centralizing.

Remember that literal pedophile that they defended and refused to report to authorities? He was a mod in smogon. Someone will post the details.

That being said. Smogon is the go to standard for competitive Pokemon. NuggetBridge is the vgc standard, but they are all the same in the end.

>>28517951
Sand attack isn't actually banned, and is hilarious on bulky mons with recovery. Same for Flash.

>>28518173
>Remember that literal pedophile that they defended and refused to report to authorities? He was a mod in smogon.

There were two but the mods here don't like when you talk about the smogon pedo mods fr what ever reason...

>>28517963
I never understood why they never suspected rain ever in Gen 5. It was the most broken as fuck thing in the meta, but they decided to ban everything that was broken, but only broken in rain. Including making complex bans to just avoid rain bans.

>>28517943
This, although it got modified.

Stadium's version of clause would be abuseable with Encore.

>>28518173
You mean Huanter? He was a an admin for Showdown and would sexually harass my Girlfriend.
Tru story.

>>28518173
>Remember that literal pedophile that they defended and refused to report to authorities? He was a mod in smogon. Someone will post the details.

This came out as completely false by the accuser.

But sure, keep the mudslinging coming.

>>28518230
If they banned rain then sun or sandstorm would be the overcentralizing weather force. Drizzle and Drought were both really strong abilities onpar with Sandstream. Two literal shitmon got those abilities and cemented themselves as top OU.

Snow Warning is good, but Ice types suck for the most part.

>>28518005

Is soul dew even that big of a deal when mega fugs are flying around?

Why is zygarde on the restricted list?

Why no duplicate items?

Event only mons is okay for convenience I guess, but manaphy isn't going to hurt anyone

And finally, what the fuck is up with the pentagon autism? THAT is the stupidest rule I've ever seen

>>28518272
>claim that haunter isn't a pedophile
>don't provide evidence

Sure thing. Meanwhile we have every piece of evidence that he is a creepy pedo.

>>28518272
source? I'm legitimately curious in the aftermath of that.

>>28517951

Sand attack is fine because you can just switch out.

If your opponent builds double teams, there's nothing you can do but pray. Even if you have some shitty niche move like haze, they can still probably taunt it or something

>>28518286
So in other words no one would miss those shit mons yet they chose to beat around the bush and start complex bans.

Wheres my complex ban when i want to use non HA Blaziken?

>>28517963

So in other words, you didn't actually play gen 5. Swift swim was banned

>>28518091
That's because drizzle makes Scizor and ferrothorn better and smogon has bias toward their favorites. Their favorites are Scizor, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Heatran (They love the shit out of Ferrothorn-
Heatran cores for some reason), and a few others I'm probably forgetting. they see rai nand think "Oh yeah, that protects my bro ferrothorn!" not "Oh, cool, now my Kabutops can kill everything with Waterfall!" They tend to want everyone play a very defensive game and like things that protect their pokemon rather than things that let them do more damage.

>>28518272
I've seen the damning evidence that hes guilty, he even wrote some sort of manifesto giving the middle finger to the pokemon community before he left.

Now let me see that evidence that you claim exists of him being innocent.

>>28518311
Use Block on a Gligar or Gliscor with Sand Attack. Now they can't even switch to get rid of the accuracy drops.

So they ban any form of RNG?

>>28518297

Different guy, but that actually was proven false. There's pastebins of the pms but I don't know where they are. I've personally seen them though. Haunter was cleared, but he hasn't returned to the site. I know I wouldn't want to know either.

>>28518345

that's not even that bad, because if you can block and sand attack the opponent enough, you deserve that KO. But then they can just bring out a pokemon better suited for gliscor and the battle is on again.

If you used double team and block, then even a pokemon able to take gliscor wouldn't be able to hit it, and that's a huge difference

>>28518340

And do you have a link to this "damning evidence"?

>>28518352

Ignore the "know" at the end of my post there

>>28518350

No, but they ban instances where an opponent essentially wants to turn a match into a series of dice rolls.

Any move that doesn't have 100% accuracy is RNG, but that's a risk that YOU make when you choose that move. If the opponent uses double team, they are turning YOUR match into pure luck which is bullshit.

Not to say they don't get butt hurt at really inoffensive RNG, like sand veil. that's retarded

>>28518005
So you can have funbro that makes battles go on infinitely ?

Because it's their format? If you don't like their rules play other formats.

Most of their bans are justified desu. As much as I raged when they banned Shadow Tag is kind of understood what went through their heads when they did it.

The one thing I don't understand is that they don't ban Stealth Rock.

They banned anything else that would wreck the meta and make a ton of pokemon complete shit and unusable because of how broken it is

But not Stealth Rock

Somehow Stealth Rock being as dominant as it is is okay

>>28518421
What abilities do they ban? Stuff like Guts and Huge Power?

>>28518388
Its all in this thread
>http://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/23449636/

but the pictures are 404 =(. maybe they are up somewhere else?

>>28517835
sleep is cancer

ohko is anticompetitive

multiple baton pass is too centralizing

>>28518458

nope, very little abilities are banned. Evasion abilities like sand veil, moody, and I don't think much else.

Unless you count drizzle and swift swim on the same team, but I think even that is allowed now that the weather was nerfed

>>28518447
Stealth Rock punishs switch spam.

>>28518428
Good luck getting Funbro to work in doubles. It could work, but getting pummeled by two super offensive 'mons will take its toll.

>>28518466
Remember when Baton Pass teams were gimmicky elo hell teams?
Stored Power and various new abilities like Magic Bounce helped push it over the edge. Just something to think about.

>>28518507
What about moody octillery with octazooka?

I bred a ""competitive"" one once and used it a bit online and it was fucking hilarious

>>28517835

>everyone finds a way around it

Is that why the meta consists of 7 or 8 different mons and nothing else?

>>28517835
Play anything gos op. Try and have fun, I dare you

>>28518484
I don't think Sand Veil is banned. Is it?

>>28518538
>it's a six arceus team

>>28518484
Why is evasion banned?
Too RNG heavy?

There's a lot of RNG in pokemon either way. Just look at confusion.

>>28518572
dice rolls you can choose to partake in vs dice rolls ur forced into.

>>28518421
it's not just YOUR match though

it's also theirs

so who gets to have precedence?

i mean it's a fucking kids game right?

>>28518495
So does spikes, but spikes doesn't fuck over specific pokemon.

>>28518586
Wait, if the enemy confuses my pokemon, how do I get to choose?

>>28518602
>waah waah muh charizard
Big whoop no reason to remove it.

>>28518616
you can choose to partake into that dice roll or switch out

>>28518616
By switching out.

>>28518616
You switch out.

>>28518522
Moody isn't good on anything other than Smeargle. It's too unreliable and can just as easily ruin your setup if you get unfavorable boosts. Smeargle pretty much only gets a pass because it has Dark Void.

>>28518639
>>28518641
>switch out
>get confused again

>>28518616
You switch out, ending the confusion

>>28518669
That's called a prediction.

>>28518639
>>28518641
But that just means I take a bunch of damage for switching into their attack AND the sneaky pebbles on the field....
Your choices literally become:
Take damage from yourself and the opponent
or
Take damage from pebbles and the opponent

That's not a fucking choice. At least with evasion there are 100% accuracy moves you can use to get around that. With this, you are taking two hits of damage either way. You can't even defog/spin the pebbles to get rid of them, because YOU ARE FUCKING CONFUSED.

>>28518294
>Is soul dew even that big of a deal when mega fugs are flying around?

It's an event only item.

>Why is zygarde on the restricted list?

This is no tier list. Zygarde was part of XY's main story, so it's a "big" legend.

>Why no duplicate items?

So fucking everything doesn't carry Leftovers or some shit like that. You actually have to think properly about your item distribution, not to mention that this gives lesser used items an actual use, like super effective or stat increasing berries, Expert Belt and such.

>Event only mons is okay for convenience I guess, but manaphy isn't going to hurt anyone

It will hurt the people that didn't get the chance to get one. Genning is a thing, yes, but they obviously won't recognize it, same with cloning.

>And finally, what the fuck is up with the pentagon autism? THAT is the stupidest rule I've ever seen

So you have to breed or catch your team in the current generation. This also prevents event only moves from past generations like Eruption Heatran and certain HAs like those from the genies. This is made, again, for the game to be more accessible to anyone. Basically, if you only own the gen 6 games, you won't get punished and you'll be able to compete without being at a disadvantage. Heck, you only need ORAS, since two of the three strongest cores (RayOgre, the one that won Worlds with a Hitmontop and a Raichu, and Double Primal) are made from the big Hoenn legends.

>>28518700
there is a chance to attack when you are confused

>>28518631
>"this move breaks the meta, and they normally ban stuff that does that, why is it still allowed?"
>"because it fills a niche"
>"but so does this other attack that doesn't break the meta?"
>"OMG STOP CRYING AND GIT GUD"
That doesn't answer the question at all anon.

>>28518720
There is also a chance to land your attack when the enemy has used minimize

>>28518458
Shadow tag is the only ability banned in OU.

Man good thing my pokemans have Perism Berry to avoid a confusion team lock

>>28518728
but ur forced into that dice roll vs enemy evasion ups

>>28518728
so is it

>Take damage from yourself and the opponent

or

>Possibly take damage from yourself and the opponent

>>28518230
Rain was overcentralized, but I wouldn't say outright broken. I regularly beat cookie cutter rain teams with a mono rock team.

>>28518173
>only a select few people are allowed to vote
That's not quite true, anyone can vote as long as they get the fuck good and get the required ladder autism points.

>>28518747
That's stupid. does that mean magnut pull and arena trap are banned also along with moves like Spider Web?

>>28518814
no just shadow tag

>>28518700
Yeah, that's a good setup. The opponent has trapped you. That's the point. Why didn't you remove hazards earlier?

Why get angry at your opponent who's actually doing a good job of putting you in unfavorable positions? That's the point.

Also 90% of 100% accuracy moves are shit, fuck off. The best is Aura Sphere which has crap distribution. Enough of this meme, it's been talked about hundreds of times already.

>>28518814
Magnet Pull and Arena Trap don't affect everything. It helps that the only Arena Trap users are really bad.

>>28518747
moody is banned

>>28518841
we'd probably start seeing stuff like aerial ace scyther

>>28518841
>Also 90% of 100% accuracy moves are shit, fuck off.
It's almost like they trade power for the guaranteed hit

Not that I'd expect you to understand this
enjoy your forever stealth rock meta

>>28518841
>you can get out of this situation by using these specific moves, just deal with it.
>you can get out of this situation by using these specific moves, and I don't want to do it thats why its banned.
LITERALLY IN THE SAME POST
HOW DO YOU NOT SEE HOW AUTISTIC THAT IS?

>>28517835
>insomnia, vital spirit, sleep talk
and you could actually bring one of these if you had more than 6 pokemon slots, or in the case of sleep talk, more than 4 moveslots. Smogon's point is that while everything does have a counter, you can't bring the counter to everything. Anything that demands a counter besides stealth rock, apparently, is considered "overcentralizing" and accordingly banned. Noe this isn't such a bad thing, it creates a healthier, and more varied metagame versus say VGC with dark void circlejerk, and everybody using the same legendary mons.

>>28517943
this

So, list of good things smogon does:
-Sleep Clause
-Tiers

Now the list of bad things:
>Banning weather after drought/drizzle.sand stream only last 5 turns
>Banning evasion (what is red card, whirlwind, roar)
>Blanket banning swagger
>Banning baton pass chains (what is red card, whirlwind, roar)
>Tiers
tiers is in both sections because it does make it to where shitmons have a healthy metagame to compete in, but has weird side effects like pokemon that are way too strong for one tier, but too weak in the next tier up because of a higher saturation of fire types or some shit.

>>28518447
Because it's not devisating to entire teams, is easier to prepare for, and to take advantage of Stealth Rocks you have to have a full team, unlike something like Swagger, Baton pass Clause, or typical Mascot legendaries who have a combination of the 3.

Sleep clause is a sensible ban. Snooze wars 2stronk.

OHKO and baton pass are hard to justify.

>>28518942
stealth rock is the sole reason you cannot field a metric ton of pokemon

JUST because of one entry hazard

>>28518565

I thought it was, but at now I can't find any sand veil clause. Maybe it went away with the weather nerf, but I know it was banned at one point

>>28518958
Fuck you, OHKO moved are shit. I've had enough of those from the Maiason to last a lifetime

>>28518975
It's not. The sole reason you cannot use a lot of Pokemon is because they already fucking suck or because the tier you're trying to use them in isn't for them.

>tfw gamefreak will never just implemenet basic 6v6 online battles against randoms with ratings

FUCKING WHY

IT'S ALL I WANT PLEASE

>>28518942
>Baton pass clause
it is literally just as easy to pack a phazer as it is a spinner, are you retarded, mate?

>>28518912
the loss of power hits best when you're not against pokemon with evasion boosts

>>28518975
wouldnt we just see more of what already works under sr with a 4x weakness?

>>28519035
That's why those teams generally pack Magic Bounce. And wouldn't you know it, a magic bouncer with baton pass exists.

>smogonfags get an aneurysm when they miss an attack because the opponent used sand attack or double team

>BAN THIS BAN IT I'M A MOD AT SMOGON BAAAAN IT!

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>>28519064
same with roar

>>28518173
>Remember that literal pedophile that they defended and refused to report to authorities? He was a mod in smogon. Someone will post the details.
Ayy, he was living the /b/ life. You're just jealous.

>>28518975
Like what? Many Pokemon in OU are weak to Stealth Rocks like Talonflame, Charizard Mega, Dragonite, Pinsir, ect.
Any poke you think is NU because of Stealth Rocks is probably there because they get outclassed.

Moody Octillery with Octazooka is some of the most fun you can have in Pokémon

>>28519035
>Baton Pass team not having Espeon or a Taunter

>>28519078
Once again, play anything goes anon.

You can use everything there! Even your favorite pokemon!
I know your favorite team is 4 Arceus, Darkrai, and Klefki! Don't worry!

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>>28519064
>Exactly one pokemon with this combination
>Has to mega evolve first, and has paper thin defenses
>still gets cucked by red card
>Exactly zero pokemon with baton pass and magic guard

And let's say you're right. Let's say it's so hard to play around M-Absol and baton pass chains (which I'm sure it isn't). Wouldn't it make more sense to ban M-Absol, than baton pass?

Here's your (you), I'm sure you're just shitposting and not actually this retarded.

I wish the battle maison followed smogon rules

>>28519218
Haha epic. Love the classic "You don't like our retarded rules? You must be a stupid pleb who just wants to use his ingame team or all legendaries xd"

typical

>>28519232
You forgot Espeon, moron.

>>28519291
No, I'm saying just play anything goes.

You don't like rules? There's literally none there.
I actually haven't played competitive since gen 5 by the way. Weather wars wore me out. :^)

>>28518005
Why would you play anything but PGroudon and PRayquaza?

>>28519163
>Not having an oblivious Roarer
C'mon anon we can do this all day.

and that was just sarcasm, more likely is just killing the taunter because it's obvious what it's going to do. You can't taunt, magic bounce me, setup, pass, all in one turn. that takes at least 3 turns, and it's not hard to throw a wrench in there somewhere. Baton pass is a gimmick, not an unstoppable strat.

If only we had random 6vs6 in the game then we wouldn't have to deal with smogon

>>28519291
I mean, smogon's not forcing you to play their game. They also have a ton of available formats that aren't OU, as well as other funny ones like monotype and single-mom teams.

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>>28519232
How can you be this retarded?

Espeon is the one to watch out for. In addition to Magic Bounce and Baton Pass, it's got tons of speed and Stored Power.

>>28519322
alright 2/721, my point stands. Why not do a complex ban like they did for drizzle/swift swim?

>>28519350
110 is a shit speed tier

>>28519232
You don't even know about the baton passing team that got it banned do you? It consisted of Scolipede, Espeon, Sylveon, Mr.Mime/Zapdos, Vaporeon, and Smeargle. Look up DeniSsSs and baton pass. Obviously the team doesn't need a mega.

>>28518975
Name even 3 pokemon who are NU solely because of Stealth Rocks, then.

>>28519346
Wait, what's your point?
>switch in a taunter as the Pokemon boosts
>try to taunt, Pokemon baton passes to a magic bouncer
Something like that, yes? The idea is that the baton pass person has some knowledge of the mon you're using and can play around it. It's not a full-stop, just a stopgap.

>>28518776
Wow. It's not like they can't use the same move twice.

The problem swagger is that every Pokemon can learn it

>>28519399
Not even him but vivillion, scyther, and base charizard.

You smogon dick suckers really go out of your way to defend some unofficial pedo site

>>28519350
Sucker punch? Don't argue that it somehow has +6 Def and +6 SpD, because I would have broken your baton chain before you could get those boosts to espeon with a simple phazing move on one of your pokemon that doesn't have magic bounce. Unless you are running 6 espeon?

>>28519470
>it's not broken because it's not set up
Also
>sucker punch
It's like you forget that they're boosting

>>28519470
Sucker Punch doesn't work on non-attacking moves and I'm pretty sure those chains pass subs around.

Seriously nigga?

>>28519399
articuno :^)

>>28519402
Switch in Roarer as you boost. You can't taunt the incoming Roar because of oblivious. You can baton pass to your buddy, but the difference is, I forced you to pass +2 boost instead of +4 or +6. Now, you can't baton pass again from your magic bouncer, or the roar will land on whatever you pass to.

I'm using roar, not taunt, if you would read.

>>28519461
You... You're not serious are you? Please tell me this is bait

>>28519232
Espeon has magic bounce + baton pass lmao

>>28519522
lad, I'm saying sucker punch the stored power. unless you have been passed at least +3 or +4 def (which I doubt), it will OHKO your wet paper espeon.

>>28519535
Ingrain on Smergal is one of the key factors in this set too you know?

Why haven't we created our own meta?

>>28519569
It's like you don't even know the team.

It leads with a baton pass Iron defense Scolipede and speed boost and maybe a Sub

>>28519573
Just ban ingrain then? It's like, you could ban any one part of this setup and it would break down. Why ban baton pass unstead of baton pass+magic bounce or baton pass+ingrain? why ruin the fun for all the baton passers?

>>28519535
You confused me because you mentioned Taunt as well. Which was it? If you're switching in, then that means you let the mon get off a boost, or sub, or something. Then they just baton pass because Roar has negative priority. Congrats, you roared yourself out as they switched into a boosted or subbed Espeon.

>>28519550
>if i call it bait i'll be right
Each one of those would be at least a tier higher if stealth rocks wasn't a thing.

I kept it at NU because i didn't want your boot licking self to throw a hissy fit when i told you moltres (aka the best toxic staller in the game) would be higher if stealth rocks wasnt a thing.

>>28519597
This was actually done a few years back by salty anti-smogon anons. It failed spectacularly because nobody actually enjoyed playing without smogon rules, hilariously enough.

>>28519615
On the switch use an attacking move, and break the sub? meanwhile i forced them into their magic bouncer prematurely before boosts hit maximum overdrive?

Of course it sounds silly when you force me to make the retarded play every turn with no mindgames or prediction?

>>28519633
>he's serious
>he thinks vivi, scyth and chari are actually ONLY held back by stealth rocks

Lamo.
If a mon is good then it will be good even with stelf rawks. If it's worth using then it's worth supporting. See Volcarana.

>>28519608
Ingrain is important for some grass type tanks

>>28519399
none, every pokemon made bad by stealth rocks had a myriad of other problems already

>>28519608
We have severely nerfed the BP chains, not once, not twice, not three times, but four times, and people are STILL finding ways to make broken BP chains work.

You know how you stop broken BP chains in a competitive game? Ban it in the first place.

>>28517963
You mean where they banned the combo of Drizzle and Swift Swim?

>>28519692
why stop at banning chains? why not just ban the move? Or boosting moves?

>>28517835
>what is overcentralization

>>28519659
>see volcarona

The mon who is BL and cant make it into OU because of STEALTH ROCKS.
Gee, its almost as if you proved my point there.

>>28517835
>That comic
Smogon is literally all about using your favorites without getting destroyed.
If everyone was using Mega Fug, my bro Farfetch'd would never win a single battle, so, instead, I battle in NU.
Smogon hater are all retards.

>>28519647
Wait, are you assuming you already have the Oblivious Roarer in? Because this is just hypotheticals. We're not going to agree on anything here because we're both going to think the supposed teams are going to do something different.

>>28519741

>but I wanna use my favorites in NU!

>>28519746
I will literally PS! any of you with 2 phazers and break the chain

>>28519718
it still has worth as a delayed switch for some pokemon

>>28519734
it's also not OU because of various other pokemon revenging it easily, either by priority or just not having reasonable options to hit them

>>28519338
Geomancy is more common actually.

>>28519734
Did you conveniently forget about Smogonbird and Azumarill?

>>28519734
It was OU in gen 5. Blame the rise of priority if you're gonna blame anything.

>>28519787
>it still has worth as a delayed switch for some pokemon
Swagger still has worth as a way to inflict confusion for some pokemon

>B-but that's too much RNG!
doesn't ban confuse ray

>>28519705
>>28518322
>lets ban swift swim with rain
>lets ban manaphy too stronk under rain
>thunderus hits too hard with thunder in rain
>tornadus hurricane is too much in rain
>keldeo should be looked at because it gets double stab in rain
>lets not ban drizzle, rain is balanced

Its like you faggots just take everything smogon does as gospel.
A smogon mod could be uncovered as a sexual predator and you guys would be first on the scene to white knight for him....oh wait, that already happened.

>>28519734
He's BL because of movepool issues, if he had a movepool of better mons he'd be OU.

Stealth rocks are an issue but they don't define a mon to a tier. A mon is in a tier because of usage typically, if a mon is still worth using then it will be used.

>>28519839
It's not like Drought or Sand Stream wouldn't take Rain's place if Drizzle was outright banned.

Fuck I don't know anymore. I'm tempted to go over there and ask those faggots myself.

>>28517859
That and the fact that there is a huge luck factor.

But really come on, all the border lines have grown far too big (once the ban list is above 12 for a BL they should just let them all in and let others fall down a tier), Shadow Tag didn't need to be banned, and the fact that they even thought that scald might have needed to be banned is absurd.
Also, the OU is too stale and would benefit from letting Deoxys (N), Giratina-O, Greninja and Shadow tag Wobbuffet in since they are not as broken as people say.

>>28519833
Swaggers a problem because it makes you hit yourself even harder with higher accuracy.

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>>28519232

>>28519833
swagger became an issue when it was tacked onto foul play, prankster and some thunder wave carriers like thundurus-i and klefki

>>28519886
Confuse ray = 100 accuracy
Swagger = 90 accuracy

Anon, I-

>>28519893
But see>>28519787
>It still has worth on pokemon that don't use t-wave, foul play, OR prankster

>>28519873
Droughts users didn't get stab unlike the rain abusers and sand stream had excadrill (which was banned)

Besides that point, even if something else would take its place thats not excuse to keep the things thats more broken in the first place.

>>28519734
It's not because of Stealth Rocks at all, otherwise in the generation with less stealth rock control it wouldn't have been OU there, especially in the wether wars. Volcarona is simply outclassed due by better Fire types and is easier to wear down now with the help of stealth rocks.

>>28519962
Rain Volcarona with hurricane was a thing, dont ever forget that

>>28519992
Weather wars was just a cancer time for the game, in every friggin game.

Did anyone actually really have fun during those days? I know for a fact I sure didn't.

>>28520018
I had fun in the beginning. Shell Smash swift swim Gorebyss was hilarious.

Then it got pretty bad.

>>28519885
ive also seen arguments for lugia to drop down as well

>>28519927
swagger wasn't a problem until those three factors could come together under one single pokemon. at that point it was decided that swagger had to go

also adding that steel no longer resisting dark made things trickier

>>28519885
what the fuck
you have no idea what "stale" even means, do you?
you think its bad that landorus gets 20% usage? lets just let giratina and deoxys in so they can get 60% usage and force every team that wants to win to use both them and some of the few (if any) counters/checks to then! super epic logic, retard

>arguing about smogon with /vp/ when 90% of the anons are elo hell shitters

kek, now that's stupid

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>>28517835
It's almost like you don't have to play smogon

>>28520213
At what elo are you not an elo hell shitter?

>>28520056
>baton pass wasn't a problem until speed boost, magic bounce, ingrain could come together under one single team. At that point it was decided that baton pass had to go.

Can you actually try, at least?

>>28519718
That's what I just said, ban the move. It's clearly the culprit.

>>28520281
where else can I get 6v6 battles?

I don't do competitive, what the hell IS Smogon? I see it complained about so much here I just assumed that it was a mandatory thing or maybe that the game has different "groups" and rule-sets you could go into to find a match.

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>ban swagplay Klefki
>don't ban paraflinch Jirachi/Togekiss

>>28520456
a community that tiers pokemon and makes the rules that the vast majority of battlers agree to before a wifi match

it's not mandatory, but 95% of player play by them, so if you don't you will be mocked for not playing this way, or at best, have more trouble finding people to play with.

>>28519734
She's BL because she gets walled way too easily by a lot of things such as Heatran and Chansey, has to avoid anything with rock coverage like the plague, and is revenge killed pretty easily by Smogonbird, Pinsir and Azumarill. If she had a better ability than Flame Body she'd be great.

>>28520456
A tight-knit community where a handful of buttbuddies decide on the rules of competitive pokemon fights to make sure everything they hate is not allowed while their favorite dominant pokemon / meta strats can go on unharmed

>>28520305
1600 is the average elo

>>28518173
To vote on whether something gets banned you have to achieve a certain COIL rating for the ladder of the tier that's suspecting, so anyone can get a vote if they win enough battles to prove they are experienced players and know what they are talking about.

>>28520509
I can make shit up too.

>>28520724
I will get a COIL rating so high that my word is the law

And I will ban stealth rock so Arceus help me

>>28518173
>only good players can vote regarding what deserves to be banned

WOW! Apparently the most logical thing to do triggers shitters like you.

>>28520760
It doesn't matter, i've gotten into a couple of suspect tests myself and when you go against what the narrative says you get called a 1100 elo shitter even if you provide screens of your account.

I gotta say for a place thats literally infested with real 1100 elo trash there sure is alot of smogon dick riding.
Its almost as if these people sit at home refreshing their screens every second waiting for the next smogon related thread to white knight in.

>>28520834
that's the problem with smogon
a few buddies decide and don't let anyone come in and ruin what they want to do by voting against their hivemind

>>28520447
Look around, ask friends, ask /vp/, etc.

>>28520834
Could you post any proof of that?

>>28521062
>replying to bait

Kek

>>28521062
proof of getting into suspect tests or proof of the shitters still calling my opinions trash when they didnt get reqs for voting?

>>28520855
>>28520834

Lol, I've seen some stupid and completely blind statements, but this is some top level shit.

>>28520509
>>28520537
This sounds awful.

I'd question why its' an accepted thing, but
>it's not mandatory, but 95% of player play by them, so if you don't you will be mocked for not playing this way, or at best, have more trouble finding people to play with.
tells me that it'd just be splitting the playerbase if you didn't.

Bummer.

>>28521112
>proof of getting into suspect tests
Not the same anon but I'd like to see this.

>>28521112
Oh my bad, I assumed it was the suspect test holders ignoring you for having a different opinion rather than just random players

>>28520056
>>28519885
This is a joke, right?

>>28518631
Volcarona is unusable because of it

>>28521177
>>28521133
heres the thread i made after i got into the greninja suspect test saying it shouldnt be banned and smogon dick suckers swarmed the thread to tell me they are too shit to get reqs but their opinion should be valued more

>http://archive.nyafuu.org/vp/thread/22426229

Should i also log back on to that account because next you're gonna say that wasnt me?

>>28521260
>Greninja shouldn't be banned

Yeah, you're a shitter alright.

>>28521255
It's been said before and it'll be said again. Blame priority bird.

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>>28517835
Where does the "Smogon doesn't want you to use your favorites" mindset originate from? Smogon wanting you to use your favorites is precisely why the tiering system exists in the first place. Nobody wants to pit their Illumise against a standard OU team.

Like, obviously if you just mindlessly stick your favorites on a team without trying to make them work together you're not going to do well. But it's not like Smogon cares if you do well or not.

And who are we referring to when we say "Smogon", anyway? The leaders? The community? The twelve-year-old who got upset he lost to a Crobat?

Is it just the fact that Smogon has optimal sets on their Pokedex, meaning that they think every Pokemon should only do one thing, or something? Because, well, yeah, the sets on there are the ones optimal for the format. They analyze what a Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses are for the format and recommend sets that can do the most. Like, Azumarill has Huge Power anda great STAB + movepool to use that with, so a high Attack and HP will work well with that bulk and typing allowing it to take a lot of hits. To abuse that high Attack, Waterfall and Play Rough are almost mandatory. Some Grass-types can wall the STAB combo, so naturally Knock Off or Superpower are going to be the recommended coverage moves. Then Azumarill is pretty slow, so Aqua Jet is a necessity. Thus a set for Azumarill could be: Adamant, Choice Band, Waterfall/Play Rough/Knock Off/Aqua Jet, maximize HP and Attack, and invest in some Speed to outspeed Clefable or maybe uninvested Rotom-Wash.

"Smogon", whoever that is referring to, isn't going to get angry that you're using a specially defensive Azumarill with Water Pulse and Rock Smash.

>>28521260

Lol, using comments made on 4ch as a basis to judge smogonites. You're not that delusional are you? People on 4ch represent Smogon as much as they represent the President of the United States. This place is for a bunch of autistic idiots. If you're basing a seperate community on the one here, you have some dostancing to do.

>>28521375
So you're saying random people here will white knight for a site they have no affiliation to?

>>28521361
Casuals being retarded, or attention whores fishing for replies. Lots of misinformation as well.

>>28521416

I didn't they say had no affiliation retard. But those people do not represent Smogon dipshit. Smogon is not the people on 4ch. You are basing your opinion on the entire Smogon community on some autistic idiots. You see how stupid that is?

It's like me saying your entire family is full of brain dead idiots because you are part of that family. See my point?

>>28518709
This just made me realize Heatran doesn't learn Eruption naturally. The fucking volcano pokemon doesn't learn Eruption.

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>>28517835
>SLEEP CLAUSE
I SURE LOVE BEING FORCED TO RUN ONE OF THE SHITTY INSOMNIA/VITAL SPIRIT USERS OR SACRIFICING A MOVE SLOT OUT OF THE EXTREMELY LIMITED 24 I CAN RUN SO I DON'T GET SWEPT BY ANY TEAM RUNNING AMOONGUSS/BRELOOM/ANY SLEEP MON

>OHKO MOVES
STURDY IS NOT A COMMON ABILITY YOU FUCK
OHKO MOVES HAVE THE SAME ACCURACY AS SCALD'S BURN CHANCE, IT'S ONLY THIRTY PERCENT SO I'M SURE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN BURNED BY IT RIGHT?

>BATON PASS
WE'VE
BEEN
OVER
IT
YOU CAN CARRY AS MANY COUNTERS TO BATON PASS AS YOU THINK IS NECESSARY AND YOU WILL STILL LOSE
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-110739069
THE CURRENT BATON PASS CLAUSE WAS NOT IMPLEMENTED BEFORE TWO OTHER LESS RESTRICTIVE BANS WERE IMPLEMENTED WHICH FAILED TO CONTAIN BATON PASS
THE CURRENT CLAUSE WAS IMPLEMENTED BY DENNIS HIMSELF

FUCK OFF WITH THESE THREADS THIS MINDSET IS THE CANCER KILLING /VP/

>>28521503
And my point is that people have smogons cock so deep down their throats that they dont take time to think for themselves and just parrot what they hear.

Sorta like you.

>Volcarona
>unusable

Why do people shit on it so much? It has a good movepool and very decent BST. What exactly is stopping it from becoming OU or at least viable in competitive?

>>28518796
Nobody's gonna mention the initial system they wanted to use to ban Mega-Gengar&Shadow Tag?

>>28521361
>this copypasta

>>28521598
Sneaky Pebbles and Smogonbird.

>>28520084
I think usage statistics and are the best thing Smogon does, and I wish Game freak would implement them on Battle Spot.

I don't think "suspect" tests are really necessary. Why ban anything, when it can just be moved up a tier with other "overpowered" stuff.

Smogon, as a version of Battle Spot with 6v6 singles and doubles, and teirs based only on usage statistics but nothing besides that would be just about perfect.

>>28521564
you're too angry but you'e right

also, what happened to denisss?

>>28521608
Nope, every instance of smogon fucking up must be swept under the rug and forgotten about.

How dare you bring up the time that one mod kept making mega gengar suspect tests and after a couple of failed banned attempts he threw away "DO NOT BAN" votes just to push his agenda.

Shame on you, you should be thanking smogon for making the sun rise and giving you fresh oxygen to breath.

>>28521630
Are those the only reasons?
Does that mean Volcarona can be used reliably on the battle spot? I hardly ever see stealth rocks and talonflame when I play online

>>28521632
What really grinds my gears is that GameFreak doesn't just give us 6v6 singles for random online battles.

Why the FUCK 3v3, WHO LIKES 3v3

>>28521691
How are you gonna get past mega mence?

>>28521598
Shit coverage.

>>28521691
Trying to attack Talonflame with Volcarona is very suicidal considering it can KO it even if it has like 3/4 Quiver Dances.

That being said, it's still a good poke. You just have to watch for those stupid stones.

>>28521565
So if they disagree with you it's because they're brainless and parroting. You are clearly the only one among them all that uses their brain. It could never, ever be that they legitimately believed Greninja was broken. No clearly, they're brainless hiveminds.

And you say Smogon is a bunch of elitists. . .

If Smogon stopped being so analwrecked over evasion boosts and stopped defending stealth rock with their lives I would have more respect for them

>>28521735
>>28521760
I guess that's a problem. It can't deal with dragons but Quiver dance/bug buzz/gigadrain/fire blast is still a pretty reliable movepool, isn't it?

>>28521854
Yep, thought you might want to consider HP ice/rock if you have access to it.

>>28521598
Azumarill

>>28521887
>HP ice/rock
Preferably which one? And what move should it replace?
I'm actually kind of tired of the standard smogon movepool so I'd like something else

>>28521890
How does Azumarill wall it?
>>28521887
>>28521907
Also, Passho or focus sash?

>>28521793
Fuck you, that's the only reason I respect them. Banning evasion is awesome.

>>28521947
>I throw autistic fits if I ever miss an attack and my doctor said I need to watch my blood pressure

>>28521907
Depends. Ice secures you KOing Salamence, but Rock let's you hurt Heatran.

>>28518912
Yeah let me just go ahead and Aerial Ace this unaware minimize Clefable to death.

>>28521925
resists both of its STAB, I doubt a Volcarona could OHKO it unless it's mad boosted, and probably gets 2HKO'd by aqua jet which has priority and ignores the speed boosts from quiver dance.

>>28521975
Ice sounds better. Heatran is generally less troublesome from what I've seen

Well, since this seems to be Smogon general

>https://twitter.com/blaramons/status/775763637692723200
>Smogon
>VGC

topkek, what's next? OU VGC?

>>28521724
The reason Smogon is able to exist is because actually battling other people in pokemon has been frustrating as fuck since the game was created.

Get out your fucking link cables and let's do this shit!

If Game freak took the actual player vs. player aspect of pokemon seriously, Smogon would have never existed in the first place.

I respect the need for a 3rd party battle program. I know people who only care about that aspect of the game not wanting to deal with the bullshit associated with creating a competitive team (breeding, training, egg moves, fuck you if you want a competitive legendary) and just want to fight pokemon. But all the rules outside of species clause and maybe item clause are unnecessary.

>>28522036
VGCucks btfo.

>>28522036
What is that supposed to be?
Their own VGC to rival the official one?

>>28522036
VGC and Smogon doubles have been a thing on Smogon for years.

>>28522002
Giga Drain is a really common coverage move on Volcarona and it OHKOs at +2 which isn't that hard to reach. However Choice Band Azumarill OHKOs with Aqua Jet.

>>28522120
But not 'Smogon VGC'.

>>28521783
Thats one example.
But hey theres no winning when you're defending a site that you think is the next messiah

This is how shit went down

>Me: Don't bother even showing people you arent low ladder trash, they'll call you shit despite your experience anyway

>You:Prove it you low ladder shitter! Show me an instance where you did anything.

>Me: Here you go.

>You: HAHAHA you're so trash *ignores evidence and moves goal posts*

Why don't you post something to prove you aren't shit stating his shitty opinions?
Whats your ladder elo?

>>28522104
Looks like they are making a team to compete in the official tournaments. To be better represented in official battles to draw attention to themselves from outside players, I guess.

>>28522227
So they're promoting Smogon?

>>28521925
It checks it, not walls it. The issue is that there are a lot of things in OU that give Volcarona trouble and their collective existence makes it not quite OU. It's not bad, it's just hard to use in the current OU makeup.

If you don't have Giga Drain, Azumarill walls you. If you don't have HP Ice, some other mons wall you. It's a coverage issue as well. Frankly, Fairy-types resisting Bug is a giant issue as well.

>>28521972
Who are you quoting?

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>>28522320
I have suggested these three type match-up changes and believe they would be healthy for the game

>>28522167
>it OHKOs at +2 which isn't that hard to reach
My Volcarona always gets KO'd in either one or two hits
What am I doing wrong? It has good IVs too

>>28522266
yeah, but to do this, they actually have to make an effort in their own community to promote VGC as a legitimate format so they get players that aren't shit to actually care enough about it to represent them. It's weird to read, and I don't really care desu.

I'll probably just battle my buddies and change the rules whenever we feel like it, and have our own little metagame. They sound like theyre down for at least playing without sleep/evade clause instead of condemning it as shitty before trying it. And if it is shitty, we will just go "hey they're right it's shit. It's now banned again"

>>28517835
>competitive team
>DUH MONZ DAT I LIKE!

>>28522361
this guy again? I'll say what I said last time. They're good, definitely better. But only a slight change and Bug, Ice, Rock still need buffed somehow.

>>28522361
>water weak to poison maymay

stopped looking there

>>28522437
good argument

>>28522437
>implying poison does not need this buff, and water does not need this nerf

>>28517835
It's to promote more team diversity by making integral to teambuilding. Look at the VGC to see how not keeping this in check creates a problem.
It's completely subjective if how far they've gone is justified but the base reasoning for it is sound.

>>28522386
Considering the good players on Showdown play exactly to avoid playing a trash format like VGC I don't think it's gonna work.

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>>28522218

Lol, I participated in the same suspect you did buddy. And I banned it because I personally felt Greninja was broken. If you look at my posts on Smogon, you would see, not only am I among the higher members of note, and I call out many members on bandwagoning. My point here is, you cannot generalize us all, because of a select few people. Yes, some Smogonites are assholes, just as some casual players, and anti-smogonites. But I'm not saying EVERY casual player is a bunch of whiny bitches that get upset a metagame that doesn't effect them at all, bans a Pokemon. You are blanketing all Smogonites, and that is why stupid fucking threads like thiis exist. If you don't like smogon's rulesets, don't follow them. Don't go on Showdown, a server created by Smogonites, and bitch and moan they want to follow the ruleset of the simulator they are on. If you don't go into Smogon territory, nothing that happens on the website effects anyone outside of people playing Smogon rules.

It's simple really.

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>>28520676
>1600 is the average elo

Am i good now /vp/ :^)

>>28522582
Average doesn't mean good, it means average.

>>28522366
Well for one don't set it up when its counters (like band Azumarill) are still around. But beyond that just don't give anything the chance to hit it. Bring it in on something like Serperior, Quiver Dance on the switch, then Fiery Dance away and let it snowball.

>>28522467
Come on, ground/water could always use buffs

>>28522595
But he is above average

>>28517835
How is it that we have over 10 of these smogon hate threads a day but i never see some person on smogon complaining about someone who want to use their favorites but can't?

There's not even an argument here, you can just play with friends by your own rules, who cares. Why do you fuckers keep insisting on making threads for the sole purpose of putting these people on the spot? If you hated them, maybe you'd stop giving them so much publicity?

>>28518272
Sup Haunter?

>>28522646
>want to play with a team of bros
>some of the bros are in OU or uber, other bros are NU

>>28522361
I think water's fine where they stand. Just nerf Fairy a bit and have GF stop churning out defensive Ice-types.

>>28522646
This.

But, they'll still claim "but they force their rules on us" but literally no one does that because 98% of Smogonites play on PS! which is a simulator exclusively for Smogon. Almost like people there are going to want to play with rulesets following the metagame its tied to.

What a crazy idea.

>>28522582
Curiosity but what team are you using, fuccboi?

>>28522680
Bug needs some help too.

>>28522646
Mostly, as much as people hate to admit it, Smogon is very popular. It's rules have become a defacto meta, even if they aren't official. What happens on Smogon does affect the outside world, when you are considered a "cheater" for using Double team by some people.

You can say "don't like Smogon rules, don't play on it" but that doesn't change the attitudes people have.

>>28522467
I thought Poison being SE to Fairy was the buff.

Why doesn't Rotation Battle have a meta? It's the most fun fighing style and actually requires strategy and skill and any "unfair" move can be compensated by the fact that you have three mons to counter it

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>>28522582
I'm a shitter. Look at this awful ratio. But I'm 1600, somehow. Would definitely be hovering at 1400 if I continued to play. I think 1500 is "average" so if you're below that you're kind of a joke, but 1700 is where it actually starts to matter.

What happened to /cpg/, by the way? Last I heard of them they had to make their room private because they were in a shofu video and people were flooding the room.

Fairy is too good
Water is a tiny bit too good

Poison is a tiny bit too weak
Rock is a bit too weak
Bug is too weak
Ice is very much so too weak

>>28522692
These people think that the only people that use Rotom-W, Lando, Garchomp and friends are Smogonites, so if they see one of these on Battlespot, they lose their shit. Also, apparently they think people who ragequit on Minimize are from Smogon as well.

I don't get their logic.

>>28522709
Yeah, that's why I said nerf Fairies. Make Bugs SE against them and resist their attacks, make Ice-types resist their attacks, and make Grass resist them.

I think Grass is fine with resistances though, they resist some useful things.

Smogons bans are mostly fair for 6v6 singles
What really bothers me is that so many overpowered pieces of shit have been introduced that I barely feel 6v6 singles is a decent competitive gamemode anymore
It was so much nicer when only a handful of >600 legendaries had to be banned

>>28522705
A very fun team i like to call "Hyper Defense"

Check it out, even my opponent is impressed at how much fun it is.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-437073979

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-437601936

I think the simple solution to this problem is just to ask your opponent if you'll be playing by VGC rules, or Smogon's; then bring your appropriate team. It never hurts to broaden your horizons.

>>28522744
Poison types are meh, especially offensively. Water types are probably a little too strong defensively. Fairy could probably use another weakness. You either use poison coverage and miss out on other more important coverage, or don't take poison coverage and get cucked by pink blobs. Literally the only thing you gain from packing a poison or steel move is to hit fairies.

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>>28522339

>>28522767
This, this exactly.
Are you me anon?

>>28522868
Can we remove Fairy and make Poison hit Dragon-types super effectively? I feel like Fairy type just makes everything worse.

>>28522899

I feel like Poison would be powerful enough if it weren't for LITERALLY EVERYTHING GETTING TOXIC

>>28522784
I kinda get what you mean. I can go into UU, and I wonder how the hell something like that can be in UU before remembering how ridiculous OU is.

>>28522939
but when a poison type uses it, it bypasses all accuracy checks allowing you to hit minimize clefairy!

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>>28518204
because /vp/ mods suck smogon dick. Make a thread bashing smogonites? Banned for shit posting. Make one going against vgc rules? Perfectly fine.


I wouldn't be surprised if they deleted this post. It seems that I am always getting banned for "shitposting" on this board when I voice my opinion. But I don't care. They have to compensate for something somehow I guess.

>>28522787
Would you be willing to provide a pastebin of this gold?

>>28522983
They should ban you for being a retarded shitposter.

>>28522994
Why do you need a pastebin of what is just a stall team without Mega-Sableye.

Literally switch Chesnaught for Amoongus and Excadrill for M-Sableye and you got yourself a better team.

>>28522980

Oh really? Then it would be pretty easy to fix poison types. Half Toxic accuracy. Done.

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>>28523001
>here we go

>>28518709
Different anon, but the blue pentagon is also there for balance reasons. Between gens, some moves got "balanced". Prime example is Defog. It was given the added benefit of removing entry hazards in Gen6. In order to balance it, they reduced it's distribution. You can't have a Gen6 Skarmory with Defog, for example.
If they allow previous Gen Pokémon, these changes would be moot

>>28523023
I wanted to see what his exact spreads were.

>Literally switch Chesnaught for Amoongus and Excadrill for M-Sableye and you got yourself a better team.

I dunno about that. You'd be loosing hazard stack, leech seed, steel typing, and mold breaker for spore, regenerator, status priority, and magic bounce.

I love the usual complaints:

>The bans will never stop since there will always a the next top threat!

It's been 5 months since the last mon was banned. Volcanion was introduced since then, but it fit just nicely in the meta, so no action is needed. In fact, seeing how Sun and Moon is around the corner, one would assume they'd pull one last suspect test so that they have what they feel is an ideal meta before it gets locked in time and the new Gen begins, but so far that hasn't happened.

>>28523294
Well, that's because the meta is as balanced as it has been in a while lol. Hasn't been this nice since late XY. It's nice, but it is pretty stale, which is to be expected when a meta settles down.

>>28517835
>le "my favorites" maymay
>cyanide and happiness
kys my man

>>28520676
1600 is still shitter land

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-437654713

>>28522888
Most original post I've ever seen

Stealth Rock should be banned. Not that I mind it because MUH CHARIZARD. It should be banned because the rules Smogon has to enforce a ban. It is the most centralized aspect of the meta.

You should always run it in your team, there is no reason not to. And you should always have a spinner or a defogger, there is no reason not to.

That's the definition of a centralized aspect of the game.

>>28520529
>She

>>28524315
But it's not overcentralizing because I say so!

-Smogon

>>28517835
Who says you have to follow their shitty list? The only place you HAVE to use their rules is on THEIR simulator. Play the actual game and never deal with them again.

Oh yeah it's so fun to see Smeargle #10240082408 with Dark Void.

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>>28524537
So fun that there were only two (2) of them in the only part of the tournament that matters: Top 8.

>>28517862
See
>>28517862

>>28524596

Wait
Why is Raichu so good

>>28518173
>Remember that literal pedophile
As in literally attracted to pre-pubescent kids? Otherwise fuck off.

>>28524636
Lightning Rod is an amazing ability, not to mention that it also has access to Fake Out, Endeavor (which can be very damn useful with a bulky EV spread and Assault Vest), Nuzzle, Feint, Volt Switch and so on. Basically, it's a really damn good supporting Pokemon. Early meta it was also useful since Volt Tackle with Zap Plate was able to KO almost any Kyogre out there, but later was found to be not that consistent.

Relevant: https://youtu.be/TKqZGXSeeN8?t=646

>>28524315

This. If you ban evasive moves because they are too centralizing, you should also ban stealth rocks

>>28524315
>>28524744
>STILL pretending Tickle Rocks matters

>>28520018
I use to run Hail on Blissey just to fuck with weatherfags. It was actually a good strategy.

>>28524744
Evasive moves aren't centralizing. They turn a competitive game into rolling dice. Same with Swagger. If I wanted to play competitive coin flipping, I would. I'd rather it not be in my Pokemon game.

>>28524315
Stealth Rock is a non issue for anything not weak to Rock so its not worth banning unless its fucks over most mons.

>>28520056
>ive also seen arguments for lugia to drop down as well
those are bait arguments

I like playing the little cup although having to always have a counter to the priority birb made me sick.

>>28524834
>evade
roar, whirlwind
>swagger
was fine until klefki started abusing it.
> If I wanted to play competitive coin flipping, I would. I'd rather it not be in my Pokemon game.
still allowing togekiss and jirachi paraflinch sets

>>28524596
Not them, but you only disproved that smeargle is widespread. You did not disprove that VGC isn't a boring metagame where players all just use the same ~30 mons out of a 720 mon roster.
I am pleased to see so much bronzong, but that's just because I like him. Still looks like no variety to me.

>>28524834

Except that there are enough moves that counter evasive moves. There are 100% accuracy moves, there are accuracy increasing moves, there are moves that give your next move a 100% hit chance, there's abilities like No-Guard.
It's just another stat you have to deal with.
If Paraflinching and confusion is allowed, why not evasion?

>>28524976
Because I was only responding to a complaint about Smeargle?

>>28524315
Stealth Rock is important for the 6 vs 6 singles format since a lot of switching takes place. You'll notice that entry hazard are never used in 3 vs 3 or doubles. Without it the 6 vs 6 format will become a stall fest. Some Pokemon can switch in without any consequences if Stealth Rock isn't on the field. I will admit though, it's damage should be capped at 25%.

>>28525124
Even with SR, OU is a stall shitfest.

>>28525168
And it would be more of a stall shit fest if SR didn't exist.

>>28525124
What if they do this in gen 7? ahhh it'll be great.

>>28525029
my bad, lad. thought you actually liked vgc or something.

>>28525223
I do like and play VGC, but I'm not going to defend what's impossible to defend.

>>28525240
why can't smogonites be this based and stop defending some of their silly clauses?

based vgc bro not even trying to defend the lack of variety because he knows it's pointless. Thank you for your common sense, anon.

>>28517835
Smogon is a bunch of babies acting like governments.

Back when they wanted to get rid of a pest in an area, they would introduce it's predator in the natural environment of the pest. Mosquitoes and bullfrogs, for example. To get rid of the mosquitoes , they introduced bullfrogs where the mosquitoes are prevalent.

Then they had a bullfrog problem. So they introduced snakes. Then snake problem. Then hawk problem.

Smogon is doing the opposite. They are banning things left and right, like Greninja who has no fucking niche other than it's HA that can't be pulled off constantly. So then, now that greninja stops checking something like landarous, they ban him, etc etc.

Smogon is being extremely irresponsible and shortsighted, ruining a good idea. This is what happens when you succumb to mob rule.

File: 1463533648641.gif (737KB, 200x250px) Image search: [Google]

737KB, 200x250px

>>28517835
Then don't play smogon then. You can play online ranked in game or just get friends you fucking loser.

>>28521564
You need to calm down senpai but yeah, this.

>>28521564
>waaaaaah I don't like to think so you aren't allowd to.
ok

>>28517835
I want to live in a world where i can use the FUCKING SOUL DEW.

>>28525507
>http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-110739069
watched the whole thing. That pass chain would not have worked if he didn't have leftovers on his whole team. So why not just implement an item clause?

>>28525779
I'd argue that Ingrain is the worst offender, since it adds recovery, also stops phazing and is only really used on baton pass teams, wont be missed as much.

>>28526048
People talked about the metagame being a stall-fest. Not allowing leftovers x6 sounds like a good place to start if they think it's not fun.

Anyway, yeah my buddies and I would probably come up with a more sensible ban than the one they implemented.

>>28526112
While I agree that item clause would be better overall. since it would stop leftover spam. Also would be good as one of the reasons they said they won't ban stealth rocks is it led people to running flying/focus sash, an item clause would be healthy.

However in terms of simple bans. Ingrain over whatever the current complex ban is, would be a good starting point and easier to justify.

How do I use Glaceon in OU

>>28526333
I know this has already been asked and answered x100, but why donesn't /vp/ start with smogon rules, drop the silly ones, shift the tiers around a bit, and have our own simulator? Surely there's a handful of neets there that can do it because they have nothing better to do?