FIX THIS

>>28514033

literally just give it some resistances

But ice isn't shit

Resistance to water is the only type chart change that makes sense

>>28514069
keep believing that anon

>>28514033
unfreeze it

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Maybe we don't change ice and instead we get an ice dragon type pokemon

Ice is one of the best offensive types in the game, but one of the worst defensive types. If Ice was made better defensively, it might be too strong.

>>28514033
Resist bug, flying and fairy
Be supereffective against Water

>resists water
>water no longer resists it
And then all it really needs is more fast ones. Some unique utility moves like pursuit would help too.

Stop making slow ass defensive shitmons

Make ice types fast instead of trying to make bulky slow ice types.

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>>28514157

>>28514184
>Be supereffective against Water
You've just given Water pokemon near perfect coverage

>>28514106
Honestly, I think resistance to Normal too, Rock and Steel already does, and Ice is another tough material

Let Ice pokemon be able to use water type moves.
It's not fair that water types get access to all the good ice type moves and not vice-versa.

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No longer weak to Rock.

Resists Ground and Flying in addition to itself.

No other changes. Would that suffice?

>>28514419
...

>>28514419
BE supereffective AGAINST water you upfuck

>>28514769
Water types are the only thing that hard counter water types, suddenly, they are all give access to something super effective against them.

>>28514033
SE on Water.
Resists Water.

>>28514876
Oh, and reduce how many water types get ice type moves.

>>28514370
Preferably not a legendary

Take all Ice typings and replace them with Water.

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>>28514033
I'd give it its own weather that harms anything else, a ohko move and make its combines with other types that cover for it, like water. also, id make mons that can fill all short of roles, from bulky walls to fast sweepers, while the avarage is stillquite avarage, the mons won't be. also, lets give ice mons OP abilities, like one that raise a random stat 2 stages each turn but lower another in eturnn, or one that raises evasion when their weather is out. lets make cool moves about stats like haze and mist, which every mon would want, especiualy when bringing into account baton pass teams and...

GF already did all that OP. my suggestion: don't play smogon. smogon make ice sucks.

>>28514671
>>28514769
Let me go a little slower this time. Water types commonly run Ice-type moves as coverage. The only pokemon that resist a Water/Ice combination all happen to be water pokemon themselves. By making Ice super-effective against Water, you've created a near unresisted type combination (Only Shedinja is immune to it). And since most Water Pokemon have access to Ice moves, they now have near perfect coverage.

I understand that people process information at different speeds, so I apologize for constructing my post in that manner.

>>28514106
Ice could resist ground or dragon too.

Anyway this has been gone over at length, but make Hail raise Ice-types defense the way sandstorm raises Rock types SpD. Also, make ice resist Ground and/or Dragon, preferably Ground.

>>28515542
Then make water not resist it you fucking elitist cunt

>>28515590
I understand that you're damage controlling here, but even if you make water neutral to ice, you're still inherently buffing water types anyway. That's why Ice doesn't need any offensive buffs.

>>28514033
Take away its weakness to Fighting and make it resist Water, Flying and Normal.

Now make Hail not cause damage to Water and Fire typesand noist the defense of Ice types.

>>28515949
*boost.

>>28515303
>weather that harms anything else
Sandstorm also exists, and is largely more useful as there are more abilities that benefit from it and you can easily build a team that doesn't take any residual damage from it, unlike hail which only works with a mono ice team
>OHKO
There are three other non-ice type ohko moves and they're all shit anyway
>Dual types that cover for it like water
It's still weak to fighting and rock, far more common than fire, and fighting more than steel, and it doesn't cover water's weaknesses. There actually isn't an ice dual type that has less than four weaknesses.
>Mons that fill all sorts of roles
Like literally every type, except ice isnt good at anything but fast sweeping
>Moody
Literally one ice type has it and it's random as shit
>Snow cloak
Again, random as shit, and there aren't even any good hail setters. Also there's a sandstorm equivalent
>Haze
Literally two ice types get it
>mist
Situational at best

>>28515988
>hail only good for ice
exactly.
>other ohko
look at distribution. also they aren't shit, give them to walls and you won't need offensive evs (which take away from bulk), toxic stalling (which can be negated by rest and poison types) or fixed damage (which can be negated by other bulky mons)
>its still weak
stab against fire, rock and steel. rock aren't known for their speed and water is one of the few types that damage steel normally. frost rotom only has 3 weakneses.
>literly every type
how many fast sp sweepers do you know of the rock type? fire is usually offenive, lighting and flying go for speed and offanse, grass goes for bulk and healing...
>only one mon gets it
that just one ability. there are other good abilities.
>sandstorm equilivent
is there dragon weather or fairy weather? no?
>mist is situational
any move is situational.

>>28514033
MAKE HAIL SLOW NON-ICE TYPES BY 50%.

SNOW WARNING META WHENN?!?!?!?!

>>28514033
Ice isn't shit, Ice pokémon are.
An fast sweeper with good coverage and STAB Ice moves would be pretty good.

Inb4 Weavile

Ice type hazard that gets absorbed by them

>>28516789
>hail only good for ice
So hail is a detriment to any team not made entirely of ice types, so hail has bad team synergy
>ohko is good on walls
Tell me how that 30% accuracy works out while your wall gets set up on
>it has offensive synergy
Because ice is a good offensive type. You initially said ice/water is good defensively, which it isn't
>these types are usually this
But they aren't all that, they have as much variation as ice
>other good abilities
That aren't exclusive to ice
>other weather
The point is that hail is entirely outclassed by sand so there's no reason to use it
>any move is situational
Sure but I dare you to make a set with mist that wouldn't be better with another move

>>28514033
Anon this looks like an icy cold vibrator

>>28514184
>more things that resist bug
Fuck you.

>>28514033
Resist:Ice, Water, Ground, Fighting(try to fight in the cold)
Weak to:Fire, Steel, Rock

>>28514033
Make it SE against water. Done.

Make poison SE against water, make ice resist poison and possibly be SE against it. Poison buffed, ice buffed.

>>28518598
>Resist poison
Shit idea poison is barely used on any fucking ice pokemon.

>>28518598
Also: nerf Ice Beam and some other moves with distribution with a lot of water types, replace with a move that's essentially the same thing but exclusive to ice types.

Resist flying, dragon and water

>>28514106
it should at the very least resist Grass type

>>28518703
Grass has too many weaknesses plz dude just shut up already let people who know about game balance do the thinking.

>>28514427
>Ice is another tough material

>>28514033
give it a resistance to Water, Bug and Dragon
Remove its weaknesses to Rock at least and maybe Fighting too

remove Fairy's resistance to Bug and Dark

>>28518737
yes anon, ice is a very tough material, not everything is a hollow ice cube

>>28518737

You tried breaking thick sheets of ice or a frozen driveway without an ice pick/scraper?

Hell punching an iced over mound of snow hurts

Permafrost
New hazard that freezes all non-Ice types the turn after they switch in.

>>28514162
Fairy, Water and Ground are strong both offensively and defensively, why can't ice?

>>28515044
What does it matter if it's legendary?

>>28518719
Remove its retarded flying type weakness desu

>>28520299
Yes.

>>28514033
Give it more sweepers including a special sweeper with OU potential and have it resist two or more of the following types: electric ground flying fairy dragon.

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Stealth Icicles

Removed by spinning, defogging, or a Fire-type move being used.

>>28520762
Make them hurt the pokemon on switching out?

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>>28514363
>tfw no fast ice type husky dog

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Ice now resists Flying, Bug, Water, Normal, and still Ice.

Ice needs no offensive buffs.

Fairy now deals 1/2 damage to Bug and Bug now does neutral towards Fairy. Bug now does neutral towards Ghost. Poison now neutral against Ghost. Ghost now supereffective against Fairy.

The type chart is now balanced.

>>28520917
Also, Fairy deals 1/2 towards Ghost and we have a deal.

>>28520917
>>28520952
Grass should also have a resistance to Fairy.

>>28519192
Hello new meta

Ice is fine, it's all the slow, shitty Ice pokemon that suck.

Best way to fix Ice is to fix Hail

>50% boost to Defense of Ice type mons
>introduce a Swift Swim Hail equivalent exclusive to Ice types (Beartic, Vanilluxe, Alola Sandslash, maybe Froslass come to mind as choices off the top of my head, as well as future mons)

Not only does it give a reason to use Hail compared to other weathers, it gives the Ice a slight niche and helps out old, shitty Ice mons while preemptively benefiting future pokemon.

>>28518737
Ice bergs can down ships, so yeah it's pretty tough.

>>28521963
>>introduce a Swift Swim Hail equivalent exclusive to Ice types (Beartic, Vanilluxe, Alola Sandslash, maybe Froslass come to mind as choices off the top of my head, as well as future mons)
This needs to happen. There are a lot of bulky water type pokemon that become near unstoppable when rain is up. Since there are a lot of bulky ice-mons, having that ability would be good for them.

Retcon movesets so Ice moves are extremely rare for non-Ice pokemon, add a resistance and/or take away a weakness, done.

Just bring back Stallrein.

>>28518737
>this nigga's never heard of the Titanic

>>28518719
Remove its Grass and Poison weaknesses.

>>28518737
that's what he said

Ice resists water

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This is an ice thread.

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thoughts?

>>28514033
Resist Water and Dragon

That's all they need to do.

>>28514033
Resists water and fairy, super-effective against bug.

And make bug super-effective against fairy.

Gamefreak has made a million defensive ice types when it's only resistant to itself

Why

>>28525232
I imagine their reasoning, faulty as it is, is to have the stats compensate for the weaknesses of the type.

>>28525259
But the stats don't compensate at all. Only someone with basic knowledge of how the types and stats work would think that Ice is balanced. It's weaknesses are way too numerous and way too prevalent.

Ice now resists Water, Fairy and Dragon.

Okay, job done, we can all go home now.

>Resists Water
>Resists Fairy
>Resists Ground
>Resists Flying

Choose three.
Then:

>Buff Hail weather
>Make more fast ice types instead of "bulky" ones

That's more than enough

Attacking Wise Ice is fine

>Super Effective against Grass, Flying, Dragon, and Ground
>Freeze Dry gets Water Types

It just needs more Pokemon to take advantage of coverage

Mammoswine and Weavile are great

We need special variants

Also limit the Pokemon that can use ice moves

>>28525399

I feel bulky's problem is that they aren't enough type alone even with stats

Mammoswine is pretty great, but that's because he's bulky and hits hard while being part ground

>>28514651
Keep it weak to Rock; 4 weaknesses isn't that bad. The rest is fine.

Resist Dragon, Fairy, Flying
50% physical defensive increase in hail
more and well distributed hail-based abilities
make ice moves be less common among non-ice type Pokemon
better distribution of water moves

ice resists water and flying

poison is SE vs water

bug is SE vs fairy

grass resists fairy

>>28516938
>Ice type hazard that gets absorbed by them

Choose your Name:

>Permafrost
>Snowblind
>Icy Terrain
>Glacier Zone

Choose your effect

>Entering Pokemon are Frozen for 1 round
(a.k.a. Free Setup Turn, or Easy Sweepsy).
>Ice-typed damage done to entering pokemon (including fliers), this damage is single-use and non-stacking.
>Entering Pokemon have (non-speed stat) reduced by 1 stage. (define stat)
>Pokemon Switch out at the *end* of the turn, instead of the beginning.

>>28525296
That's why I said the reasoning is faulty.

>>28514033
Give it resistances or remove weaknesses.

I say give it water and fairy resistance

>>28514033
Offensively, touch nothing. Maybe introduce another Freeze-Dry equivalent for other types, but offensively nothing needs to change. Maybe make a base 80 physical Ice move.

Defensively, make Ice resist Water and Flying. Scald deals SE, or maybe just Neutral damage against Ice types.

Ice gets 2 great resistances in Flying and Water. I considered making Ice neutral against something SE against it, to reduce the threat of omnipresant coverage, but Rock is too important a weakness, Fighting and Steel really don't need to loose any effectiveness, and Fire beating Ice just makes sense in the universe. I think letting this rest for a while would prove valuable to see what happens before anything more drastic happens.
Ice resisting Flying is one that makes tremendous sense the way Pokemon uses Ice defensively. Ice is treated similarly to a block of actual ice, given that fighting, rock, and steel all smash and crush it. By that logic, a bird that flies into a chunk of ice will probably not do much to the ice.

>>28526957
>Base 80 physical Ice move
Icicle Crash? If anything there needs to be a physical Ice-Type Hydro Pump, which should have practically zero distribution outside Ice mons to balance it out. But it's not essential, Ice is already one of the best offensive types.

>>28525199
This plus neutral damage and neutral resistance to fire.

>>28514033
>ice now resists grass
>ice now neutral against grass

ice gains a resistance and water loses a weapon against a type that is supposed to walk it, giving people more reason to use ice types.

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>>28515044
It's shitty enough.

>>28514033
0x
Grass, flying

.5x
Electric, poison, normal, dragon, ground, fairy, ice, bug

2x
Fire, fighting, steel
Offensive adds 2x rock and bug

>>28514033
Make it resist water. Water can continue to resist it as well, but make it resist water. Also, make it resist either dragon or ground. I vote ground just because dragon just got nerfed hard via fairy type, and honestly it won't hurt ground all that much. If you really want to help ice even more, throw in a flying resist.

the main problem right now is that ice pokemon suck.

The moves are great.

why the fuck would i teach ice beam to a ice type when i can give it to pretty much any pokemon i want.

>>28520875
What the fuck is that image from? I have the vaguest recollections of it.

make a Freeze-Dry TM

Resists water, neutral to fighting, and that's it. t's literally fixed.
Anything else is just too much of a design change.

>>28530040
The best Ice-Types (read: Weavile and Mamoswine) are physical attackers anyway. IMO they're worth using for Ice Shard alone.

>>28514106
Late, but
>water always freezes at 0°C/32°F
>meaning water is always a warmer temp than ice
>pour water on ice
>ice melts

Ice loses every time.

>>28530328
From what I remember it was a really creepy performance art piece

It seems like there are never any Ice types in game until mid-late.

Where's my 16/36 twice evolved early Ice mon? Preferably with some fucking speed

>>28514033

Give it a flying resist

only make gimmicky ice types or offensive ice types. No more slow bulky ice types. Ice is not meant to be a defensive typing.

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>>28528964
>all ice mons have a free thicc fat

>>28530328
>>28533211
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I4qGxWx9SU

>>28533104
...no it doesn't. If you add enough Ice (at a cold enough temperature) to water so that the energy loss from the water required for the equilibrium state freezes it, then Ice wins.

Ice now resists Flying, Water, and Normal.

>>28524005
Nice modifiations, but what exactly are the numbers at the bottom based on?

>>28534380
How well the type is offensively/defensively and the overall strength of the type. I don't really know its calculated though since changing one type effects the rest.
I just used it as a base and made every type I could overall positive except for Normal and Dragon.

>>28534645
Seems pretty weird. No way fire is the best overall.

>>28534715
well after my changes it looks like it is.
according to the original chart steel is by far the best
https://cdn.rawgit.com/aaditmshah/typechart/master/index.html#AAAAAA4A696FAAB66EB66AEAE6AAD6A3AA6A9E69D9E6696DAFAAE6EAB995CBDAAE96A5A3BB6B89EAEA9EEAB6A6AAAFA6A869AE59E9B5BAB67BAA62AAAAEB9AAAAAAAAE4AAA6AEB9995BAAAEA79AADAAAF6

>>28514033
I would like to think it should be resistant to fighting, punching ice is not effective, seriously it fucking hurts, it should also resist flying type moves.

Ghost should resist ice while fairies should be weak against it.

Not every water type pokemon should be able to learn ice moves (Outside of HP Ice), seriously pisses me off that basically every water type learns ice beam and that most ice types have shit tier stats in comparison.

>>28514033
Simple 2 changes:
Blizzard is no longer TM
Rain gives SP Def boost
Hail Gives SP Attack boost
Hail recovers more hp.

>>28514033
Make it resist fairy and water, done.
It doesn't need to be op or even good but just having some key traits to make it desirable in SOME situations would be very welcome.

Right now Ice type is just a mean of making otherwise uber pokemon shit enough to be OU material.

Ice used to be my go-to type in gen 4.
I would make mono-ice teams all the time and do extremely well.
I miss my bro stallrein, feels bad man.