So who did the whole 'mass genocide' thing better?

Lysandre because he was actually right.

Cyrus was just an emotionally retarded autist.

>>28337954
Cyrus. Anything Flare-related range from boring, forgettable to laughably stupid

>>28337954
One actually summoned gods only to be stopped by you freeing legendaries

The other just found them asleep and ended up firing his shot only to destroy his base

Cyrus did nothing wrong.

Lysandre > Cyrus

Flare's themes > Galactic's themes

Galactic's admins > Flare's scientists

Well the psycho red head did commit suicide with some team flare members....or gave him/them eternal life but stuck under all that rubble depending on which game you played.

>>28337954
Cyrus had good intentions for why he wanted to commit mass genocide. His cause is more sensible.

Lysandre just wanted to kill everyone for the sake of killing.

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>>28337995
Yeah, I didn't really understand how his base ending up exploding at the end of of that battle, to be honest. Was it because he didn't have the legendary Pokemon anymore? Because he was talking about how he had enough energy to use it anyway, and then something about immortality...I have no idea, he was kinda vague the whole way through.

>>28338077
You've got it backwards. Lysandre was the one motivated by scarcity of resources and wanting to end conflict and strife. Cyrus wanted to destroy reality and create a new one where he was a god.

>>28337954
Lysandre would've been a neat antagonist if the setting of the game actually showed that what he was worried about was a reality.

What we see is an already beautiful, peaceful place where pretty much everyone is happy and have what they need. A place that was never shown to have any trouble other than Team Flare and Lysandre himself.

>>28337954
Cyrus is omnicide because recreating the universe would kill everything in the universe.

>>28337954
Cyrus because he actually thought his plan out. He knew only he would survive. Lysandre actually thought making sure only rich people survived was a good way to make the world better.

>>28338186
I agree with this 1000%

I wanted to like Lysandre, and I kinda do, but I know I would have liked him a hell of a lot more if I felt like he had a plausible reason for feeling the way he did.

Hell, he went on to talk about how Pokemon were only tools of war and he'd have to eliminate people so that wars would stop, but canonically the region hadn't had a war in 3,000 years? Like how long do you have to wait before you consider all wars to be over, Lysandre?

Lysandre:
-Actual (good) motives
-Means to carry out the genocide that is established beforehand
-Did nothing wrong except fill the flare roster with retards

Cyrus:
-No motives beyond vague autistic "muh spirit" bullshit
-Wants to selectively destroy the universe, by means of ????? (vague pokemagic bullshit)
-Stays behind in the distortion world like a retard and makes more empty promises. How will you "break the secrets"? Just like you were going to arbitrarily "remake" the universe? More importantly, what will you eat and drink, you blithering retard?

>>28338398
Anime Lysandre >>>>>>>>> Game Cyrus > Anime Cyrus >>>>>>>>>>> Game Lysandre

>>28338092
They should really give X and Y a third installment

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>>28338210

Pretty much

>>28338398
>More importantly, what will you eat and drink, you blithering retard?

If time doesn't pass then he probably wouldn't need to.
No excuse to wallow in your asshurt like a moron,but it's probably doable.

>>28337954
None
They both failed.

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>>28338458
I was so excited for Sun and Moon that it didn't occur to me until just now that XY did not get a third installment.

>>28338077
Did you get the names mixed up or something? Or did you just not play the games at all? Lysandre had good intentions for his shit, and Cyrus was the misanthropic asshole.

One literally wanted to hard reset the entire universe.

The other was whining over nothing and blew up his own base.

>>28338092
No. He shot the "ultimate weapon" (what the fuck is that shitty name anyways) and it just landed on his base

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>>28338692
That's kind of fucking hilarious.

If not incredibly disappointing.

>>28338245
Hopefully they do eventually do a war with one of the past regions which you get to explore half destroyed

I think Sinnoh would be a good region to war with

>>28338805
Doubtful but that would be fun to wander around. I always liked the wasteland/destroyed modern city aesthetic in RPGs.

> yfw they combine XY third installment with DPP remake

>>28338915
Nobody expected literally Hitler in gen 6 or non Pokemon monsters for gen 7

Wouldn't rule out the possibly of a war, might be a few gens to wait though

>>28338092
His plans were up in flames so he did a desperation move firing it back on itself to kill the protags and their friends.
Which is worse in X because the fallout from firing it would have made them immortal apparently so they would have been stuck under the rubble forever.

>>28337954
Considering they both failed, I'm going to say neither.

>>28339028
>it would have made them immortal apparently so they would have been stuck under the rubble forever

That's horrifying.

I don't know how anime will end up for Lysandre, but Cyrus actually managed to create the universe he wanted and succeeded his goals.

>>28337954
Cyruses theme music still gives me fuckin chills

>>28337954
How do I get an awesome beard like Lysandre? I only have some shitty stubble on my chin. Can't even have a neackbeard ;_;

>>28339038
I'd say Lysandre thought things out more than Cyrus did seeing as the player was the only thing that thwarted him.

Cyrus on the other hand left the pixies thinking they were useless and they fucked up everything in DP. While in Plat he was thwarted by Giratina.

>>28339177

Me too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVopM16eCGw

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>>28339028

Unless someone tries to dig him up, Lysandre in X will live for at least a few thousand years being crushed by the rubble.

Back before SM was announced I figured there would be an X2 and Y2 instead of Z. In one version Lysandre would come back insane after being trapped underground for a few months or so, while in the other Malva would take over Team Flare.

>>28339648
A sequel would have been nice. I would be interested in learning more about how Lysandre is dealing with his immortality.

>>28339102
Yeah but after he goes into the new universe, it's destroyed, presumably killing him

>>28339102
Cyrus never did that

He's just staying in the distortion world

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>>28337954
Lysandre wanted to just kill of a whole region.

Cyrus wanted to annihilate the whole universe. Cyrus wins.

But they can't even compare to Hitler becauses muh six million

Cyrus' plan kinda made sense and he actually got shit done.

Lysandre was plain retarded and literally Hitler and the whole segment with Xerneas and Yveltal was a fucking letdown and didn't make any sense.

>>28338092
>>28337995
>People bitch about a game's story being stupid or lame but don't care enough to actually pay attention to it
He says RIGHT BEFORE HE DOES THAT that the weapon has enough energy to blow up the area around them and give them immortality until they see how shit the world becomes in X/get killed outright so they never have to see how shit the world gets in Y.

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>Make a big speech about "people who give and people who take"
>Your entire survivor's club is made up of useless rich kids who would contribute nothing to your new world.

>One blew up a town
>Other blew up a lake
>Nobody died in said town
>plenty of magikarp died in the lake
>Lysandre just wanted to make the world beautiful with his bros
>Cyrus wanted to murder all ningens across time and space

I think Cyrus wins.

>>28340405
They helped fonance the whole project.

>>28340355
Then why does he let you walk out of there like nothing

And how does a laser just fire up and turn around like that

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>>28340355
Yeah, but like...how?

He was standing there, when did have the time to change the controls over to just blow up the base? Unless it was his plan all along to blow up the base along with everything? But then, why? Why the fuck would you want to use a weapon that can obliterate everything but you, but not make your base able to withstand said weapon? And how the fuck did it go back to being able to grant immortality? Didn't the immortality/life giving machine get modified into a weapon? So it does both now? How are you going to have a machine that destroys everything but AT THE SAME TIME give everything immortality?

This shit doesn't make any goddamn sense.

>>28339928
He could always come back in SM. Remember that it's continuing XY's story with Zygarde and Magearna.

>>28340405
No anon, they're so beautiful though with their bow ties, suit jackets, and easter colored frat shorts while they sail around on their boats daddy bought for them. ITS BEAUTIFUUUUUL!

>>28340465
>when did have the time to change the controls over to just blow up the base?
Default co-ordinates nigger.

>>28338647
Lysandre wanting to kill everything except his shitty team because he judged other people to be too greedy (despite the only standard for getting into his team being wealthy enough to give him money), Cyrus wanted to create a universe without emotion because he thought that would solve strife/conflict. Lysandre's character is nonsensical and his plan was stupid, all he ended up doing was killing himself and possibly other Flare members at his base.

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Cyrus won

>>28340431
>ningens
ZAMASU!

>>28340493
So it was his plan all along to blow up his own fucking base? Why the fuck? Where was he going to go to wait all this shit out?

>>28340499
>because he thought that would solve strife/conflict.
You what?
He outright thought spirit and emotions were mistakes that shouldn't have existed.

Lysandre's plan would only have made sense if he had both Xerneas and Yveltal in both games with the plan in mind to revive someone he lost /who was murdered and kill everyone who was against his ideology or at least everyone involved in said murder. Not just hurr durr everyone dies.

And even then its still shit. The whole ultra hyper floette cannon thing is the problem.

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cyrus is and will always be better.

>>28340499
I wish I could say I have never seen a more biased post but it would be a very unfortunate lie. I could literally make this exact post with greed/emotions flipped around and it would have been exactly as insightful or thought out as this one.

>>28340431
>tfw Lysandre is Black and Cyrus is Zamasu

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>>28340515

>>28340529
Well, yeah. Because he thinks they cause conflict and the bad things in the world. I'm replaying Plat right now I'm not just pulling that out of my ass.

>>28340465
What it did depended on the version. Thats why the dialog changed depending on the version. Why are you being a dickhead about the exact specifics? Did you ever wonder how the fuck Cyrus created the red chain out of thin air? How did he know the red chain would fit? How exactly does the red chain connect to the deities? Do you see how stupid and shallow complaining about shit like this is?

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>>28340512
>UB-Infinity is Zyrus and the final boss of the post-game
>DP remakes confirmed

>>28340520
Are you intentionally being retarded or what?
You need to key in co-ordinates for it to hit a specific target. Default implies there are no co-ordinates in and it's just set to 0 from it's current position.

In other words he didn't input in any co-ordinates or just decided to fuck it and kill the protagonists because his plan was torn apart by them.

>>28340581
He didn't fucking make the red chain out of thin air. That was a major political point of the game gathering all the pixies you fuckwad

>>28340581
I'm not saying Cyrus was any better, I'm just saying Lysandre's plan didn't make any fucking sense, either.

>>28340633
>Are you intentionally being retarded or what?
He is, basically. It's just nitpicking the story details as though you couldn't do the same with literally every team ever. Ghetsis STATED GOAL was to liberate everyone's pokemon so he would be the only one with them. Yoiu can nitpick the details all you want because the details don't matter and they didn't bother going deep on explaining how the fuck, for example, Ghetsis would deal with immigration or tourists or how exactly he would guarantee literally no one would own pokemon or prevent people from getting pokemon or whatever else. People just like to nitpick every little detail because it's cool to shit on Gen 6.

Cyrus got what he wanted so he wins

>>28340633
It's still pretty stupid to have an Ultimate weapon with the intention of obliterating everyone in the region and not making your base capable of withstanding the blast.

Point still stands, Lysandre was destined to fail because he didn't have any way to protect himself or his team from his own weapon.

>>28340633
just joking

was only pretending. calm down

Lysandre
His motives were clear and everything he did was painstakingly explained to you. It was just that his motives don't work in the Pokemon World, because there is very little strife or poverty to be seen. For all we know he could be right but we'll never see it because will always be a middle class kid safezone.

Cyrus is just crazy. It's not really believable that he would get as far as he did as just some crazy guy that pretended he wanted to rule the World. Cynthia should've shut him down very quickly.

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>>28340703
>nitpicking

Sorry I have to ignore parts of the story so I can enjoy the story

>>28340667
So what did he make it out of and what was the exact process, and how in the world does it control both the time and the space deity? Why does it control them less than a pokeball does? This is what you/they sound like.

>>28340740
Maybe he never intended to or was banking on it making him immortal like Az.

>>28340558
Hot

Zamasu a qt, I want to see a trap Zamasu desu.

>>28340740
>Lysandre was destined to fail because he didn't have any way to protect himself or his team from his own weapon.
You do realise that if his plan went off without a hitch he wouldn't have fired it on itself right?

Being resistant to the weapon is completely irrelevant

>>28340771
How the fuck he put in the coordinates or whatever the fuck is not a relevant part of the story.

>>28340824
So, what, he was just going to destroy all life and Pokemon except Geosenge town?

>>28340895
>implying he couldn't have destroyed the town himself

>>28340895
>why don't Americans make the Whitehouse impervious to nukes

>>28339028

It makes you immortal in Y too.

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>>28340995
>comparing government to super villains

>mfw you got me there

>>28339648
> In one version Lysandre would come back insane after being trapped underground for a few months or so, while in the other Malva would take over Team Flare.

That's really interesting to be honest.

>>28340812
B-but he's a boy.

>>28339928
>>28339648
I want Lysandre to come back just for this. It would be interesting to see.

>>28341779
Yeah, I think his motives were stupid and his plan didn't make much sense, but as a character he was interesting.

>>28337954
One died/is buried alive for eternity

The other got trapped in an alternate dimension filled with absolutely nothing for eternity

I think they both lost.

>>28340995
I bet you think the Whitehouse is where they store the nukes, too.

>>28341856
That's how I felt about him, too. I thought he was interesting, and I loved his design. GF just didn't give him the proper setting for his motives to make any sense.

>>28337954
Lysandre wanted to make a better world, Cyrus just wanted everyone gone.

Both are crazy, but one is the lesser of two evils.

>>28340465
>So it does both now?
It always had both, the weapon had the power to drain life from things, and use that power to bring things back to life.

>>28341879
Cyrus wanted to be there, so he won in his own way.

>>28338051
>implying the team flare scientists aren't semen demons

>>28337954
Game Cyrus > Game Lysandre
Anime Lysandre > Anime Cyrus

>>28338982
>Non pokemon monsters
Wat

>>28342535
But that's retarded when each legendary is only focused on one

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>>28339648
Lysandra becomes immortal, learns the error of his ways and seeks atonement. He moves to the alolan region, get's a buzz cut, cops a pair of cargo shorts, a tropical t-shirt and sun-glasses to mask his identity. He spends the rest of his days making bank at a beach smoothie kiosk/ hiring the player to do odd jobs. When the player interacts with him, Lys will red-pill the player on the meaning of life.

>>28337954
>mass genocide
what?

>>28343141
AZ was the original user of the ultimate weapon, and he used it for that reason to bring back his dumb waifu Pokemon, she left his ass because of all the Pokemon he killed just to bring her back.

I'm pretty sure if they had made a Z version Lysandre would have had both legendaries as well.

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>gamefreak said "eh fuck it we'll just make the next team a bunch of street thugs"
Fucking A

>>28337954
Lysandre's reason to use the "Metroid" Gun to give himself immortality while killing off everyone else, is because he wanted to hoard all of the world resources to himself.

Cyrus's reason to summon and control the dragons of Space/Time to reset the universe is because he believed that spirits and emotions is what cause Chaos and he wished to purged it for a orderly perfect reality.

Lysandre's greedy, Cyrus's an control freak.

>>28340355
Wait, what the fuck? When did they say that? And why didn't he just kill himself if that was his goal?

>>28343228
Why would he kill everyone else then?

>>28343327
AZ was part of a war a long time ago, so that likely played a part into it with him.

>>28343380
But he built the fucking thing to bring back his dead Pokemon. Why would it have a kill everything switch

>>28343413
The king took it and modified it to take life instead of give it, they don't go into the details on exactly how the hell he did it though, or why it can still do both at the same time somehow.

>>28343305
However, only Team Rocket, Aqua, and Magma have a sense of unity: Giovanni quits out of fear that he's a disgrace of his own organization, while Archie's and Maxie's hearts are in the right place and respect the lifeforms around them.

Galaxy, Plasma, and Flare were all assholes with asshole bosses who were selfish to the core and think only for themselves (N doesn't count since he's a pawn of Ghetsis).

>>28343413
I think to abruptly end the war that killed said Pokemon in the first place. Granted, using the life energy of the Monsters to power it is enough to justify the destruction of said machine.

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>>28340512
>>28340590
it could get worse:

>At the end of Sun/Moon THE PLAYER LOSES!
>Cyrus unmakes the universe
>Sorta thankfully unmakes himself accidentally at the same time.
>Pokemon gets a continuity reboot starting with yet another Kanto/Johto remake.
>Various current gen mechanics and later gens will be referenced and a few even integrated into the encounter lists
>All pokemon are competitively viable.
>Multi-pokemon team battles more of a thing.
>Red/blue given a bit of a grander plotline.
>Kasumi/Misty still can't get a boyfriend in this timeline either.

>>28343128
Ultra Beasts are not Pokemon

Have you not seen all the other threads?

>>28343324
He says it RIGHT FUCKING THERE, RIGHT before it happens.
"The original purpose of this device was to bring a Pokémon back to life. But the ancient king transformed it into this ultimate weapon... Hmm. When the Legendary Pokémon awakened, it took back much of its energy--its power--that had been sent to the ultimate weapon. There's not much power left... But there IS enough to use it once..."
"<player>, Sycamore's pupils... Let us live forever... That's right! I shall grant you eternal life! I'll give you the pain of endlessly waiting for a beautiful world to finally be built!X/The ultimate weapon is a flower that bloomed to no avail... Just like me... But this ends here! I will show what its remaining power can do!Y"

Presumably he doesn't just kill himself out of spite. Have you seriously never seen the "I'm going down but I'm taking you with me" move?
>>28343305
>Lysandre's reason to use the "Metroid" Gun to give himself immortality while killing off everyone else, is because he wanted to hoard all of the world resources to himself.
It's posts like this that just confirm the huge, massive bias unless this was like a bait post or something in which case considered the bait taken. This isn't even fucking close to his motivations or goals.

>>28343493
Why would it not be able to do both at the same time. Are you an expert on the technicalities of ancient laser weapons? Do we have any reason to believe it should not be able to do both?

>>28343939
I don't remember him saying that. Then again, I wasn't really paying attention. His plan was retarded than I thought.

>>28344026
>his plan is retarded
>Don't even know what his fucking plan is
/vp/ everyone

>>28344026
His plan wasn't any more retarded than any other boss's. I think it was probably the LEAST retarded save for Giovanni and MAYBE Ghetsis's and that's stretching it.

>>28344063
His plan was to make the world beautiful again by killing everyone else and only letting people join if they were rich enough.

It's a pretty retarded plan

>>28344205
About as retarded as flooding the world, causing eternal drought, using gods to reset the universe because emotions are bad, and making everybody release their pokemon so you'll be the only one with them because I'm sure there's no flaws in that plan.

>>28344269
Team Plasma was obviously a reference to gun control
How is that retarded?

>>28344300
I'm pretty sure Lysandre referenced pokemon in terms of gun control more than Team Plasma did. It was more animal rights type thing. And it's retarded because the plan is fucking stupid. How do even make sure NOBODY has any Pokemon but you?

>>28344331
The pro-gun argument is that if everyone has their guns taken away they'll have no way to fight tyranny and criminals

That was Ghetsis whole plan
Plasma is basically a mix of PETA and gun control

>>28344331
Scaring people into submission with the dragon, then having goons hunt down anyone who resists.

>>28344415
There's more than one powerful dragon in the pokemon world. It's not like he'd be the only person. How does he prevent some guy swinging in with a Garchomp or a metagross or whatever? How can he prevent literally everyone in the region with "goons" from having pokemon? What about tourists or interpol like Looker from coming in with their own Pokemon? That you are even defending this is absolutely absurd.
>>28344405
What are you talking about. That has nothing to do with what Team Plasma was about. Ghetsis explicitly says the liberation movement is to make it so that he'd be the only one with pokemon and would control the region that way.

>>28344499
And that's exactly what every gun control politician wants

You think any of them will tell their bodyguards no more guns?

Gun control and plasma front only apply to the peasants

>>28344499
I know you're going to say otherwise, but in game stats aren't canon. A garchomp or whatever shouldn't be able to take down reshiram or zekrom. Plasma likely would have taken control of the region and amassed an army capable of defending against and conquering outside forces.

>>28344499
>That has nothing to do with what Team Plasma was about. Ghetsis explicitly says the liberation movement is to make it so that he'd be the only one with pokemon and would control the region that way.
Why do you think he wanted to take pokemon away from people and only have them for himself? To make it so no one could fight back against him.

>>28344499
>>28344405
>>28344415
Also, if commentary is what makes a plan good even ignoring the ridiculous premise, Lysandre's plan was also commentary on issues with dwindling resources in the real world. It deals with themes of overcrowding and its impact on the world, as well as how peple use wonderful and powerful things (like pokemon), taking advantage of them to put themselves above others, saving themselves instead of helping others to survive.

>>28344665
It'd be nice if we actually saw that in the game rather than having Lysandre say it like twice despite there being no evidence of a crisis happening soon.

>>28344652
Contrary to this memer >>28344563 that has nothing to do with gun control and the political issues invovled with it which is the entire point you imbecile.
>>28344636
Ok, even ignoring stats, Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem aren't the only legendary Pokemon in the pokemon world, nor are they portrayed as the most powerful, NOR are they the only ones to ever have been acquired by an evil team. What would stop other regions from using their own legendaries? There are so many holes in this plan.

>>28344665
There's a cannon thing called infinity energy there

>>28344730
Team Plasma's whole fucking spiel about how pokemon aren't meant to be with people and how they are better seperate wasn't portrayed in game either. In fact most characters that aren't team plasma, good plasma or bad, talk about how crazy they are because of how much people and pokemon help each other. At least the game acknowledges Lysandre's issues are a real thing even if it doesn't actually show them, because it's a kids game and there's no reason to actively show the place as a shithole. Doing so would be even worse. The way they paint a lot of the themes and motifs in Kalos is actually really well done, like the themes of money and how good or bad it is. It's portrayed equally in good and bad lights. The game doesn't take a side and force an opinion in your face. it talks about some good things that happen when you're rich and powerful and some bad things.

>>28344636
Do you know how ridiculous you sound? This is like saying one country is taking all the nukes and then forcing all the other countries to never build anymore nukes with their military or whatever. It's fucking ridiculous. That's not how it works. If only it was that easy to rule the fucking world.

>>28344497


This is a goat post for you faggots

>>28344731
It is possible that Ghetsis didn't know about foreign legendaries. And I would say that the Unova legendaries are portrayed as being more powerful. Kanto's have no lore, and were probably meant as just a rare thing from the beginning. Johto's don't seem to do anything at all. Heonn and Sinnoh do seem more powerful, but everyone expects you to beat them with normal pokemon, and I don't know what the fuck was going in in Kalos. They emphasize in BW that shouldn't be able to beat N without the opposing dragon. It sounds like it's more powerful to me.

>>28344821
>In fact most characters that aren't team plasma, good plasma or bad, talk about how crazy they are because of how much people and pokemon help each other.
Towards the end the NPCs actually start believing them and begin to release their pokemon. Pay attention to their public gatherings across the regions.

>>28344952
>It is possible that Ghetsis didn't know about foreign legendaries.
Plasma know about the various teams and their failures so clearly they have some kind of knowledge of other legendary Pokemon.

>>28344903
In a world where almost everything is decided with a pokemon battle, I don't think it's that ridiculous.

>>28344952
Oh what the fuck ever dude. If you think the game intended to make the fucking BW dragons sound stronger and more powerful than all the other legends then just fuck off.

>>28340747
You forgot your :^)
:^)))

>>28344975
It's ridiculous because it's impossible to A) make everyone get rid of all their weapons in the world and B) make sure no one ever gets anymore ever. Hell, it clearly didn't work in the first place. I can hardly believe my eyes at this point that you are even entertaining this.

>>28344731
>Contrary to this memer >>28344563 that has nothing to do with gun control and the political issues invovled with it which is the entire point you imbecile.
So he just wanted to take everyone's pokemon away for no reason? Are you serious? The whole the point was to make it so no one could challenge him when he took control.

>>28344821
Hence Lysandre's a greedy bastard. The whole theme of Team Flare is Class superiority.

However, since the major focus of Pokemon is the Monsters themselves, they're unable to literally provide topics of poverty.

In short, the theme of all of the pokemon mainline games is value of friendship among men and creatures (or, in this case, men and monsters).

>>28345062
What the fuck are you talking about????? He said they were good because it was a gun control metaphor because the idea is that pro-gun control people want to have guns so no one else can have them. That isn't what the pro-gun control position is, even if it's what you are /pol/ enough to believe it REALLY is. It has nothing to do with gun control. Why would a japanese game even have commentary on that?

>>28345054
When a weapon can be beaten into submission or killed with another weapon, it sounds doable. I'm not saying it would be easy, but with enough effort and manpower, Team Plasma may have been able to pull it off.

>>28345112
Note that the NRA was created to rid African-Americans of firearms before it was hijacked by the arms industry.

>>28345079
Lysandre isn't "greedy". "class superiority" is a theme of Pokemon XY/Kalos in general, but it is not what Lysandre concerned himself with. At best it was what the grunts were wrapped up in since the reason they joined was because they thought it was a stylish club to throw money playing into the themes of rich society. But Lysandre himself is portrayed totally seperate from that. Hell, your rival even goes "We have to stop Team Flare... no, we have to stop Adrenal!" clearly separating the general grunts from his own goals. Lysandre himself was the total opposite of greedy. Opposing greedy people is his entire motivation. His experience with them, seeing them is the entire reason he is where he is. It's called backstory and motivation and he actually had it very good, almost as good as N.

>>28345145
But there's still stronger and more powerful "weapons" appearing every day in the Pokemon world just like animals in the real world. It's totally fucking improbable.

>>28345112
>implying other tyrants didn't use gun control in the past

They could have took inspiration from someone like Stalin

You can argue that Clinton and Obama are innocent all you want, that doesn't stop other people from thinking they're up to something

>>28345231
I'm 100% certain that they probably WERE inspired by people like Stalin, considering Ghetsis is a textbook villainous bad guy. But the point is that it has nothing to do with specifically gun control. Lysandre talks about Pokemon like that more than Ghetsis does and I only remember the one line by him where he says Pokemon should be destroyed because people would only continue to use them for bad things even though he knows they have and can be used for many wonderful things as well.

>>28345218
The aim wasn't to control them, just to temporarily weaken the people enough to take over.

>>28344952
>"You can say whatever you want. A Pokémon, even if it's revered as a deity, is still just a Pokémon. <Player>, so what if it chose you! That doesn't mean you're a threat. Come on! Now you'll face ME in battle! I can't wait to see the look on your face when you've lost all hope!"
Apparently you don't need a legendary to beat a legendary straight from the horse's mouth!

>>28345308
He specifically says "no one should be allowed to use Pokemon" but him.

>>28345373
I think he was in denial. He seemed to be losing his mind at the end there.

>>28337954
Lysandre is the Law side of SMT, almost word for word, and I have been told by many on this board that SMT has a better story than Pokemon. I guess Lysandre wins.

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>>28345415
You have to be doing this on purpose to me now

>>28345405
Yes?
What do you think his goal was after he took over.

Basically
>weaken through manipulation
>take over
>separate completely

>>28345441
The Gen V kool-aid is real.

>>28345454
His goal was after taking over was to rule. His means to take over was manipulating people to liberate their pokemon.

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>>28337954
Lysandre by far. His cult actually had a personality and his plan actually had to be foiled, whereas Cyrus was a fuckup who was going to get eaten by Giratina regardless.

>>28340405

That was the whole point of team flare, though. Lysandre, as a self-made man iirc, was mistaken in believing wealth was a good measure of a person's productivity and contribution to society. The grunts being incompetent rich kids more interested in fashion and popularity than building a better world is a surprisingly subtle commentary /vp/ still can't pick up on.

>>28345581
>as a self-made man iirc,
I don't think it was ever explained how he became rich (probably related to being part of the king's bloodline, maybe?), though maybe a random NPC mentions it, but yeah the point is Kalos values money and all the good things it brings, and Lysandre himself is/was a shining example of that, using his money to help people in need. He wrongly believed that money was an indicator of how much people contributed to society and how much they could give if they would give to him to help his goals, and it was meant to contrast with how the grunts are by and large rich kids who fell into money and just want to throw money at things. This ties into the games themes of the positives and negatives of money and high society, where Lysandre or Diantha represented the good and the grunts or for example some of the characters in the Battle Maison are examples of the bad.

>>28342535
I thought it didn't get destructive power until that king got ahold of it and modified it to be a weapon.

>>28343220
they both wanted to kill everyone anon

>>28343873
>Citing other 4chan threads as sources for a ridiculous claim.

>>28337954
Lysandre wanted to destroy just the Pokemon world,Cyrus would have destroyed the whole universe and countless worlds in order to make a world he wanted.

>>28348593
Hard for me to say who was closer to their goal.Maybe Lysandre since his weapon actually worked,it did fire an destroy something,.