Fuck this game

>>28333494
you couldn't even get past the first gym, could you anon?

>>28333494
>Fuck Lance
geodude used rock throw

B-but muh nostalgia
B-but muh following Pokemon

You're right OP, even if you need to gitgud. HGSS are the most overrated games in the series, they were the GO of their time.

>>28333494
>>28333530
>this type of people think than gen 6 was good
>this type of people think than genone league was hard
You people sucks

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>>28333530
You're right Anon. It's the level curve ruins this game so much. Why is the game preparing my Pokes to be in their mid-to-late 30s by the time I reach E4 just to battle the E4 who have Pokemon in their 40s JUST TO LANCE WHO HAS OVERPOWERED DRAGONS IN THEIR LATE 40s/EARLY 50s?

There is literally nothing wrong with the level curve in HGSS.

>>28333494
>Having difficulty in any Pokemon game that isn't expressly designed by modders to be difficult
How
The level curve is shit because you have to grind not because whatever your facing is actually difficult. Its a tedious numbers game. Infact you can cheese it like any other Pokemon game by overleveling one or two pokemon and having decent type coverage.

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>>28333530
guaranteed replies

>>28333638
This. The level curve matches the region well. OP is probably not battling everyone. I skipped Mt Mortar (because holy fuck it's hard) and I'm still right on track to reach the E4 with level 40's

Lance is Stealth Rock: The experience.

>>28333638
There is everything wrong with the level curve in HGSS. Look at the levels of the wild pokémon and the trainers.

>>28333667
>This. The level curve matches the region well.
What does this empty sentiment even mean

ITT: people spout a recycled criticism that was only true for GSC and not HGSS

you guys don't even play the games

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>>28333494
Fuck off, you don't know what bad is.
>playing liquid crystal
>at blackthorne city
>majority of wild pokemon are between level 10-15
Fuck that shit, I cheated and gave myself unlimited rare candies, only used them on pokemon from the wild to level them up for my team.

>>28333494
>t. Someone who never went through Dark Cave and Mt. Mortar

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>>28333494
>it's

>>28333700
HGSS retains same problems of GSC in regards to its level curve.

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>>28333667
Nigga I literally fought every trainer in Johto.

Making me grind for little exp against weak wild Pokemon is not good game design. The level curve fucking sucks and you know it.

>>28333674
>I don't like to train
>I like easy things
>bring back my exp.share from ORAS

it's almost like you have to employ a little bit of tact and strategy in your battles instead of rolling over the dumb AI trainers with your superior pokemon

>>28333494
Can't believe people actually complain about difficulty in HGSS, you people know you can get Choice items before the E4, right?

>>28333753
That's okay if you like bad games like ORAS, Anon. I don't see what that has to do with GSC/HGSS horrid level pacing.

>>28333748
and where are you in the game?
also, you don't need to be at the same level of your opponents to beat it
also, you problably play on the shift mode

>HURR IF I'M NOT THE EXACT SAME LEVEL AS MY OPPONENT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WIN

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>why can't all my pokemon share exp
>why can't my thunder attacks do 2x damage to rock
>why can't my team be made up entirely of water shitmons, it's not fair the computer uses effective attacks against me
>why doesnt the game hold my hand

EXP share and easy mode XY/ORAS was a mistake.

>>28333808
lol

Fuck it I'm just gonna steamroll E4 with Ho-Oh.

I tried to play fair by they forced my hand.

>>28333818
>>28333817
>>28333753
How butthurt and deep in fanboyism do you have to be to actually defend the only flaw in HGSS?

>>28333677
It means the level curve would be bad if you were guaranteed to end the game with a team that is not strong enough, but this is not the case. The curve is different from other regions, but that's it

>>28333748
I mean, there's also right outside Safari Zone Gate, where there are level 25 pokemon. Which are good to train with since your pokemon will be that level around that time ( i suppose, if you go that way, I really cant vouch for the people who went to Mahogany first)

I really havent found it to be a problem or anything that made me grind for more than say, half an hour

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>>28333494
ITT:
OP and other anon who cries because they can't have the below of the picture in every game

>>28333913
How bad at videogames do you have to be to get mad at the difficulty in a Pokemon game?

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HG easily gave me the best Elite 4 experience of my life. Sure the grinding was a bit slow, but do you ever think maybe you're not supposed to just blaze in and one shot the entire E4 in one go? I fought against them quite a few times in order to level up and it eventually lead to my umbreon stalling out all three of Lance's Dragonites, then my Typhlosion took out his Charizard with a roll out. It was intense. Stop demanding the game hold your hand so you don't have to play it as much.

>>28333913
see >>28333805
>you people know you can get Choice items before the E4, right?

>>28333818
>EXP share and easy mode XY/ORAS was a mistake.
10/10

>>28333927
NO I HAVE TO BEAT IT FIRST TRY WITH NO EFFORT EVERY TIME

GIT GUD
I
T
G
U
D

>>28333927
Johto and SInnoh in Gen 4 was the pinnacle of Elite 4/Champion experiences

With an honourable mention to Wallace

>>28333956
The Sinnoh Elite 4 is TERRIBLE. Only redeeming factor is Cynthia.

>>28333530
>HGSS are the most overrated games in the series

they are far better than the bullshit in R/S/E.

also,

>game has Team Rocket = excellent game
>game has Team Knock-off = 0/10 shit trash not even worth bootlegging.

>>28333920
>Level 55.
How is everybody so overleveled? I beat Red yesterday and my strongest Pokemon was Level 46.

>>28333583
>doesn't say anything about gen 6 or gen 1 e4
nice projection faglord

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If you're using an emulator and you complain about how long it takes to grind you need to shut up and speed up.

>>28333494
Thanks OP, I now have half a mind to start another HG/Crystal run.

>>28333987
I think the Bug guy and Ground lady were alright, but yeah Cynthia was the real star

>>28333931
>It's not bad, you just have to grind!
It's bad m8. Tedium isn't difficulty, if they wanted the game to be difficult they'd give trainers better rosters and movesets.

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Back in my day we could beat the entire E4 and champion with just a max level Charizard, the only challenge was running out of PP for our moves.

If you wanted a different pokemon to get stronger you had to swap em out as your first move to share experience.

You fucking XXY kids.

>>28334062
>didn't even read my post

My casual-girlfriend beat Clair with an under-leveled Gyarados and a choice scarf. Grinding isn't the issue here, you're just bad at Pokemon.

I thought these games were for babies. Why are they so hard now? It wasn't like this back when I was kid in Gen 1.

>>28334097
Sure she did man. My casual girlfriend also beat HGSS with competitive items, totally didn't feel weird to have everything just spike a couple levels at random intervals.

>>28333494
>implying that game was hard

You can only complain about the AI in the main BP facilities like the Battle Maison or whatever the fuck they're called in each game. Any story being hard just means you suck immensely at Pokémon.

>>28334103
>It wasn't like this back when I was kid in Gen 1.
I still have PTSD about brock in yellow

>>28334142
>these sour grapes

Why even play Pokemon if you don't want a challenge? XYORAS were too easy for me even without Exp. Share on, HGSS isn't even as hard as fucking GSC.

Are you sure you're even 18?

>>28334202
I get my challenge from romhacks that are made to be difficult. I refuse to defend poor level pacing as actual difficulty.

>>28334168
>what is mankey

>>28334168
You know for the longest time I couldn't beat Brock because my autism demanded me to fight him with a Pikachu and Pidgeotto just like Ash did.

>>28334223
>I get my challenge from romhacks that are made to be difficult.
*Tips fedora

>I refuse to defend poor level pacing as actual difficulty.
The player has every advantage over the computer in every Pokemon game, any difficulty you're having as the player is entirely your own fault for not understanding the mechanics well enough. Level scaling has nothing to do with it, you're just bad at Pokemon.

>>28334229
Oh yeah Metapod too

>>28334228
Didn't know about that shit at the time. Only had my trusty pikachu and a few caterpies.

>>28334229
>my autism demanded me to fight him with a Pikachu and Pidgeotto just like Ash did.

dude, how can you relate to a faggot like Ash THIS much? jesus.

>>28333638
Wild Pokemon, especially for NOSTALGIA in Kanto, don't level with the player after going to Mt. Mortar and beyond - Victory Road and Mt. Silver being the exceptions. There is a massive Level jump from Pryce to Clair but otherwise I even found Kanto's curve reasonable. After that the second E4 has a bad curve in that you need to be ~70 to take on Lance, at which point the first 4 E4 members become jokes.

That being said I like the games a lot.

>>28334268
I've never had difficulty with HGSS, my entire argument has been centered on calling it out on it's bad level pacing. If you want to project that idea then that's on you.

But I'm not going to say HGSS are perfect like the rest of the jackasses around here with it's god awful level spikes masquerading around as challenge.

lance

you mean 3 ice beams 2 surfs and a thunder

>>28333494
You do realize that being able to rematch the gym leaders makes this the easiest to grind in, right?

>>28333494
Lance is easy

>>28333494
>fuck lance
>pidgey used hidden power ice

>>28334303
>bad level pacing

You mean 'good' level pacing, right? You should never be equal or higher level than the next gym leader/E4 you're going to fight, or else what's the point of playing? The player is always going to have the advantage over the NPC in every other feasible way, hell they only use Pokemon of a single type, if your Pokemon is the same level as their you might as well be getting the badge for nothing.

The reason that so many people hold HGSS in such high regard is exactly the reason you dislike it. It's not bad level pacing, it's good level pacing specifically because it requires you to think about your next opponent and raise your team accordingly.

>>28333494
I still play it and I still use my pokewalker daily

>>28334315
IM NOT AT THAT POINT IN THE GAME YET
>>28334282
I think I was like 5 or 6 at the time. I mean you pretty much played as Ash in that version anyway so I wanted to be true to the role playing.

>>28334413
Wow, if you can't beat the E4 for the first time, get fucking good. It's one of the easiest Elite Fours to beat the first time around.

>>28334451
No it isn't because the level curve sucks

>>28334400
Johto had three gym leaders which all have the same levels which makes it too easy. The only thing the shitty level pacing does is make you not want to catch non Legendary Pokemon later on because trainers are few in number and have too low levels to tackle the Elite Four.

>>28334400
No, I mean bad pacing. A sudden jump in almost ten levels make any sense, causing the player to be underleveled unless they grind or make use of what they know, the latter is completely fine. You can rationalize it however you want but so long as there exists sharp level spikes rather than utilizing the games own features and changing the rosters to suit the appropriate level range then it isn't good level pacing at all. You're encouraging lazy game design.

>>28334413
>so I wanted to be true to the role playing.

oh okay.

>>28334168
Pokemon is hardest when you are a dumb kind who doesnt understand all the mechanics.

>>28334400
this
totally fucking this

>>28333530
This. The game isn't even fun until you get to Kanto, because of how poorly the Johto segment of it was designed.

>>28334595
>>28334597
This.

>>28334611
what?

>>28334564
>You're encouraging lazy game design.

And now he's changing the goalposts, folks. What could possibly be a lazier game design choice than having an exp. share that puts your entire party 10 levels ahead of every gym leader/ E4?

>>28334648
Exactly.

>>28334400
No it doesn't. Not at all, actually. I agree with you that you shouldn't be higher than bosses, but HGSS does a shit job at managing levels overall until you get to Kanto.

The game keeps throwing leek 20 shitmons at you to fight while the bosses keep increasing in level to the point where you don't want to capture any new Pokemon past a certain part of the game, due to all of the grinding you'll have to do. There's no reason why the trainers right before a given gym never break level 25, but the gym leader is level 41. It's just bad design, and all it does is discourage teambuilding because there's nowhere to train.

>>28334667
this

>>28334667
the two posts aren't even similar

>>28334659
Goal post hasn't changed pal. I don't defend the EXP share in gen 6 either so what are you going on about? That I'm not attacking all equally in a thread about HGSS?

>>28334561
That's sort of the point of late-game Pokemon, you're supposed to catch them at a low level because the reward of grinding them is that their better Pokemon. No one is going to give you a level 50+ Dragonair, if you want Dragonite then you best expect to do a wee bit of grinding.

>>28333494
>He ACTUALLY (actually) struggles with ingame Pokemon
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>28334672
>the trainers right before a given gym never break level 25, but the gym leader is level 41

So you didn't actually play HGSS, did you?

>>28333494
>mu level curve

git gud faggot

>>28334672
HGSS is boring and unplayable because of the vast difference between normal trainers and boss trainers. Normal trainers stop increasing in level past a certain point, while the boss trainers keep increasing. It makes for a poorly-designed game because you're fighting shitters who aren't even a challenge and give you zero exp, but are then thrown into some boss fights where levels come out of nowhere. There's no middle ground, and the game feels like they just threw shit together because they didn't know how to design it.

And they clearly didn't, because they didn't fix the level curve from the original GSC, made at a time where Iwata had to hold their hand through the game design.

>>28334737
Did you? Look at route 45's levels. Now look at Clair.

Also, look at the trainer right before the league with a level 31 Mareep. Now look at the E4's teams and levels.

>>28334688
You're claiming something subjective as fact, I gave a counterexample showing that the opposite can also be true. How do you not understand that the issue of game balance is not objective?

>>28333927
This, it took me like 3 tries, and effort/strategie, I feel like this is what an E4 is actually supposed to feel like.

BUT CAN ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDRNE

>>28333494
I'd like more pokemon games with ridiculous end-game challenges and a harder curve. XD Colosseum fights, 100 battle challenge and more fights like in pokemon battle revolution where every trainer has an annoying strat to deal with. You can power trough most of things just by overleveling a pokemon, I don't know what you are complaining about.

>>28334785
Now look at trainers inside Blackthorn Gym.

>>28334785
>Look at route 45's levels. Now look at Clair.

This is why I'm saying you didn't play HGSS, you're skipping an entire subquest with at least 4 minibosses, who are much closer in strength to Clair.

>>28334704
You get a Dratini at level 15, while your team is gonna be around level 38 or so. That's more than "a wee bit," considering the part of the game you obtain it at and the level of the next major trainer.

>>28334737
The level of enemy trainers rarely go into the 30's after Lake of Rage.

>>28334805
Every one of these threads is just the same autist who thinks that a Pokemon game's objective quality depends on whether or not his Pokemon are at least as strong as each gym leaders, in other words a literal Hoennbaby.

>>28334815
>four mini bosses
Now look at the regular trainers inside that same area, and their levels. Notice something?

>>28334803
Next time I'll add IMO at the end of all my posts to signify an opinion. The only fact I've presented is the existence of the level spike itself, which I called lazy(subjective).

Do you understand?

>>28334828
>Hello, I missed the point completely

That's my point, you're expected to grind for better Pokemon in the early games. It's not bad game design, the games are far too easy otherwise.

>>28333918
And that's why the curve is slow, they give you a choice and it ruins the pacing.

>>28334810
Yeah, look at that one level you'll be getting off of them (five trainers with barely any mons) because of their concentration in comparison to all the level 20something shitters in the rest of the game!

>>28334886
Or you could stop making the same shit thread every week, but we both know that's never going to happen.

>>28334910
Senpai I don't even make threads on this shit board anymore.

>>28333797
>Waahhh the games are too easy
>Take the simplest route to make the games harder
>Waahhh why can't i steamroll through the games

>Waahhh why is everything stuck behind an hm?
>Make games where regions are stuck behind story elements
>Waahhh why can't I just go somewhere and have to trigger an event or do a fetch quest to get to where I want to go

This is the worst fanbase by a mile

>>28334852
>grunt trainers are supposed to be as strong as boss trainers

Get out.

>>28334890
Did you miss my point? I'm saying that level 15 is too low for you to even care about adding something to your team. Especially when you can find wild mons ten levels higher right outside. If the Dratini were level 25 or something it would be fine, but nobody wants to raise a level 15 shitmon 30 or so levels right before a league that's coming up after one route. Thad just tedious.

Grind wasnt to bad, can lvl in Moltres cave for 2nd round of Elite 4. Mamoswine with Choice Scarf and Ice Fang shits on Lances dragons

>>28334927
>It's okay for grunts to be pathetically weak that you can't even train newer mons effectively
You first.

>>28334927
>grunt trainers should have a full 12 level gap between them and the boss trainers
get out

>>28334954
no pathetically weak, but yes.
The boss is suppose to be a lot harder, isn't?

>>28334981
Then we've reached an agreement.

>>28334981
Yes, but the point about HGSS's bad design is that, while its good that the bosses are challenging, the regular trainers can't be trained off of (the only reason you'd fight them) and only serve to waste your PP (which is pointless because of Pokecenters).

Finally someone who agrees with me

>>28334846
>missing the point
Platinum had just was just as if not more difficult than gsc and the level curve wasn't garbage.

What gsc pulled is artificial difficulty. You shouldn't have to struggle to have six Pokemon team worth a damn.

>>28334940
>nobody wants to raise a level 15 shitmon 30 or so levels right before a league that's coming up after one route

That's why the game has 16 gyms and endless rematch potential, anon. You can beat the game with early-mid route Pokemon if you want but you'll get more reward out of that Dratini later on. Catching a Gible after the first gym isn't good game design, the stronger Pokemon are supposed to show up later because once you have your Garchomp the game loses all sense of difficulty.

>>28335012
>bad design
subjective

>>28333494
ITT: Git Gud

>>28333494

I don't know. I never "had" to grind, I just choose to and my team was on appropriate levels but always lower than the Gym Leader. It was fun. Once I was in Blackthorn City, I didn't purposely train at all with there only be a 2 level difference between when I fought Clair and the E4. I would've annihilated Clair if I used more than two pokemon to fight her and used items in battle (her use of items prolong the battle).

>>28333494
>fuck Lance
kinky

>>28334970
What does the level gap matter when the bosses don't use strong Pokemon? I'm not kidding, just use a Gyarados if you're having legitimate difficulty with this game.

>b-but I don't want Gyarados, I want to beat the game with only my Furret

Then you're going to get what you asked for.

>>28335044
>artificial difficulty

Wow my favorite /v/ meme, I was wondering when somebody was going to be this retarded.

>>28335045
You could keep the rematch feature and adjust rosters at the same time so all the normal trainers aren't wastes of time until you rematch them, especially in the latter half of Johto. I don't see any excuse not to given they aren't bound by the same limitations anymore.

>>28335045
Gible and Gabite aren't that great and you aren't going to have a garchomp until the 8th gym or even past it.

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>having difficulty
>in the fucking EASIEST set of games in the series

>>28333610

>He can't beat the league with a level 30 team of his favorites

>>28335104
Then make a fucking romhack, or just play a different game if the level curve is going to knot your panties.

>>28335108
In X I got a Gible as early as the 5th gym, no grinding. All games past BW2 are piss easy.

>>28335173
>It's ok for the main games to be shit
Do you defend Gen 6's bullshit EXPShare too?

>>28335094
It may get incorrectly used a lot but it actually is artificial difficulty in this case. They shouldn't need to be a higher level to make an already easy battle easier.

It's just lazy.

>>28335196
Oh, I was referring to platinum

>>28335205
>It's ok for the main games to be shit
You're the only one who's claiming that trainer levels = game quality.

>Do you defend Gen 6's bullshit EXPShare too?
What? I've been saying that compared to Gen VI most people prefer a game with a lower level curve, because it rewards you for actually playing the game past 'which overpowered mon should I use to beat this underpowered gym leader?'.

You don't need to grind, you just need to think. Get some better items or just use a more efficient team of Pokemon, there's no reason to blame the level curve if you're bad at HGSS.

>>28335239
>They shouldn't need to be a higher level to make an already easy battle easier.

Do you even know what you just wrote?

>>28335297
In a game about raising teams of fighting monsters to fight other people who raise them I think trainer levels play a large part of the game quality. I agree with other people who say the level spikes don't really add much of a challenge at all and just makes all the other trainers feel like filler while also discouraging changing your team.

But yeah everyone who takes issue with it is just bad at Pokemon. There must be no other way to make boss characters challenging.

>People still defend HG/SS's shitty pacing and level curve
>With 'muh difficulty' of all things

This is sad. Do you really think having a victory road devoid of any trainers is actually reasonable?

>>28335435
I'm saying it's entirely a matter of subjectivity. Most Pokemon from GSC aren't very powerful to begin with so it's natural to expect the Gym Leaders would be slightly higher leveled. The only people who consider this a flaw never actually played the original GSC and expect every game to have the same level curve.

>>28335471
That was definitely a design choice rather than a problem with pacing or level curve.

If it were a later Gen game, Route 26 would have been considered a part of the Victory Road

>>28335471
>People still have their own opinions
>2016

Wake up Mareeple!

>>28333913

This. Other than the level curve, HG/SS would be GOAT.

The game corner sucks ass, but I do like having flamethrower/ ice beam/ t-bolt before Whitney.

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>>28333494
>played Gold growing up as a kid for years and never had any problems
>bought soul silver years later and steamrolled through the entire game without paying attention
>this thread

>>28335547
>The only people who consider this a flaw never actually played the original GSC and expect every game to have the same level curve.
That's one hell of an assumption to make.

>>28335662
>Other than the level curve, HG/SS would be GOAT.

Only game I rate higher is BW2

>>28335696
I'm sorry, I forgot to include the autists.

>>28335567
>Want to try out late Johto mon
>Best option to level it is grinding on wild Pokémon 20 levels below what the E4 have

There are things that are just objectively bad design. Like Silver as a rival.

>>28333530
>B-but muh nostalgia
>B-but muh following Pokemon
Anyone who says "Muh" should be ignored

>>28333510
>LITERALLY ANYTHING Used Blizzard!

>>28333510
>Outsped nothing and took an/a ice beam/waterfall in return

>>28335855
>grinding is objectively bad design

So I take it you don't play many RPG's then...

Also you do know that gym rematches exist in this game, right? Same with trainer rematches?

>>28333610
He's the strongest champion in the region. He's meant to be a challenge.
You people are everything wrong with modern gaming

He's fucking easy anyway, as long as you fight each trainer you come across and beat wild pokes instead of running, he's easily beatable.

>>28333748
You can beat the E4 with a good team of lv 45s right? And even if you're hopelessly shit at this game it still literally HANDS you a legendary before the elite 4. Now Lugia is way better than Ho Oh so maybe heartgold is harder or something but still smfh mi familia tbqph

>>28333927
>Umbreon Stalling

My nigga, how many sand attacks did you get in?

>>28335948
HGSS, not GSC

>>28334815
>entire subquest with at least 4 minibosses

Goldenrod Radio tower? Maybe the admins are a bit tough yea but by then you've been fighting Team Rocket for so long your team is pretty tuned to be able to beat them.

Clair has a Kingdra which at that point in the game you only have 2 or 3 options of doing super effective damage on it

>>28335897
>grinding is objectively bad design
That isn't what I said or implied. Making it extremely inefficient is bad design.

>Even mentioning those after the treasure that the Vs. seeker was
>How the gym leader rematches worked in general
You aren't helping your case.

>>28335989
question still applies, atleast thats what I did. Thunder Wave with Ampharos, into Umbreon with confuse ray to hopefully cancel out outrage and sand attack times a billion.

>>28336019
>Clair has a Kingdra which at that point in the game you only have 2 or 3 options of doing super effective damage on it

You have six Pokemon, she has only one that should cause you any trouble, I'm sure you can figure it out.

>>28336065
I think I did the same with shuckle and flash. But those motherfucking dragonites hit hard as fuck.

>>28335922
>You can beat the E4 with a good team of lv 45s right?

Yeah, I beat it with a team of levels 38 to 42 while not using items in battle. It was a challenge outside two battles (out of 8, had to restart after Bruno beat me) where I mostly swept.

It's pretty easy to beat the elite four in HG/SS. They're all monotypes. Any water type with an ice move would destroy lance

Fucking children in this thread who NEVER had to put up with the original GSC system. Friendship pokemon are way less viable since it takes so fucking long and they may gain too many levels in the case of Eevee. And good god the fucking movepools. The improved movepools in HGSS is the main aspect of them that makes the originals obsolete.

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>>28333494
mfw I beat Crystal's E4 being 11 years old

OP, how would you feel to be told by a kid
>Hey, just train hard your team and choose your moveset wisely!

>>28336124
I beat the original GSC as a kid but the level curve but still think the level curve in HGSS is bad and could have easily been fixed.

Now what?

>>28336122

Not really, Gyarados was a bitch albeit I was operating on half HP. There's also that Dragonite that knows Thunder.

>>28336061
I'm just saying you have more options than you're giving the game credit for. Basically all I'm getting from you is that you either never got past the E4 the first time or were just too lazy to update your team once you did.

>>28336095
Good point, HGSS Clair's Kingdra is way easier than Juan's Kingdra. No Double Team or Rest, has to take a turn off for Hyper Beam, and the worst it can do is annoy you with smokescreen.

Too many people look at the level and shit their pants before they look at the moveset

>>28335326
I fumbled with my grammar.

What I'm saying they're artificially making easy battles "hard"

>>28336173
>could have easily been fixed.
Because no one wanted HGSS to be any easier.

/thread

>>28336173
I think that you, like everyone else as a kid, had much more fun with these games since you weren't a jaded old autist overly concerned about the meta. I remember it being the hypest shit when I killed Red's Pikachu with one earthquake from my lv 74 Typhlosion.

>>28336185
>What I'm saying they're artificially making easy battles "hard"

The funny thing is you think that sounds any less retarded.

>>28336173
You don't exist.

>>28336124
Silver was my first game but leveling curve and trained variety of Pokemon in the game damn near kill it for me today.

>>28336178
You are apparently missing my point. I'm saying the game discouraging people from trying out newer options just because of level distribution is bad. Other games have ways to handle this much better, while HG/SS are harshly lacking.

>>28336225
You're just projecting, though. If I want difficulty I can play romhacks made for that however that doesn't discount my criticisms in the games level curve.

GameFreak could have done better.

>>28336225
>I remember it being the hypest shit when I killed Red's Pikachu with one earthquake from my lv 74 Typhlosion.

Ah, OHKOing Pikachu. You expected it to give you trouble, especially if you watched the anime (I think most kids who played the games did), but then that happens.

>>28336227
>what is the battle tower

>>28336293
>I'm saying the game discouraging people from trying out newer options just because of level distribution is bad

Are you trying to prove this as an objective point? This is literally the only thread in which I've heard this argument, and it's only coming from you.

>>28336317
Literally no one is discussing the battle tower itt

Besides that's more of a Platinum problem, if anything.

>>28336299
>GameFreak could have done better.

see >>28336198

>>28336365
I'm just really harsh on HG/SS in general, probably because of their popularity, feel free to ignore me. I just expected them to fix more of their issues in the remakes.

I don't even wanna think about what happened to ORAS

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>>28333494
>Game doesn't have a level curve
>"REEEEEE, CHILDREN GAMES"
>Has a level curve
"REEEEEEE, I CAN'T BEAT A CHILDRENS GAME"
HG/SS aren't even hard games.

>>28336423
GameFreak could have done better.

>>28336493
Thanks for admitting that your argument is entirely subjective and therefore no longer worth discussing.

>>28336514
You dont know what the term level curve even means ya memester.

>>28336518
Isn't there an ORAS thread somewhere for you to be posting in?

>>28333494
It's called training you are Pokemon anon, it's like the basis of the Pokemon games.

Unfiguratively gitgud. Hell, the original 4th gen games I could see as being a bit unfair because of how many times you have to fucking slog somewhere remote to fight gauntlets of trainers while your team is compromised with at least two wasted slot HM slaves, but HGSS were usually fine if you put any amount of thought into your team and brought some Full Restores/Revives to use between Elite 4 member battles and by the time you get to rematches your team's probs over most of their levels anyhow.

>>28336590
I can post in multiple threads across multiple boards simultaneously. I don't have to stick to just one.

>>28336556
>Thanks for admitting that your argument is entirely subjective

This makes me wanna go on a tangent that it's only subjective since the majority of Johto Pokémon are garbage not even worth training, but I won't even expand on that.

>>28336619
I thin your efforts would be better concentrated in one thread, preferably with a trip on.

>>28336676
Only if you agree to do the same, babe.

>>28336670
>expand on a subjective point with more subjective points

Oh right, I forgot that multiple subjective points eventually become objective, except not at all.

>>28336752
Johto Pokemon being bad is a fact.

>People complaining about level curve
>Blue was literally 20 levels higher than you on average
>No one complains about Blue

>>28336791
>opinions are facts

You need to be 18+ to post here, anon.

>>28336752
You're pretty snarky, I like that.

>>28336817
No one on /vp/ defends Gen I

>>28336817
If you complain about any level curve in any Pokemon then you're just bad at Pokemon.

>>28336854
Ironic shitposting, my favorite

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>>28333494
That shit was a cakewalk. Now if you wanna talk about a real challenge....

>>28336817
Only the most disillusioned nostalgiafags defend Gen 1. Just like the ones defending GSC and HGSS

>>28333667
>The level curve matches the region well. OP is probably not battling everyone.
Even if you battle everyone if you have a team of more than 4 you're going to be overlevelled.

>>28336920
Just like how if anyone actually likes a Pokemon game (god forbid), they're secretly a gamefreak apologist.

>>28336894
How was that ironic or shitposting? I'm just glad there are still people on this site I can have a decent argument with.

>>28333494
>yfw this is why they casualized XY and ORAS

>>28336942
/vp/ - Yokai Watch and wanking

>>28333956
>Bug Elite 4 with Beautifly and Dustox
>Ground Elite 4 with Whiscash and Quagsire (Cynthia kept the new Water/Ground Gastrodon)
>Fire Elite 4 with 2 Fire types and Sunny Day

Sinnoh sucks.

>>28336990
>Only DP is Sinnoh

Platinum says hi

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>>28336920

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>>28333494
>I found OP's house on google street view

>>28336898
I never had a problem with fr/lg difficulty. I'm playing through ss now and holy shit the gym leaders are always stronger than me and for the most part of the game I had only a party of 4

>>28337106
The only gym leaders who should really be an issue for you in HGSS is Whitney (Attract spam and Rollout) and Clair.

>>28336817

Blue is the final battle and it in the closest terms reflects what would be a final boss in other RPGs.

GSC level curve goes out of whack the moment you beat Morty because of the branching pathways.

But anyways, NPCs are suppose to outlevel you, that's the advantage they have over you being able to use as many items as you want as long as one pokemon is alive, which includes healing, x items, revives, status removers, bigger variety in held items, and even an option to switch out your pokemon after you defeat one of theres.


Gen 2 and it's remakes still have a pretty bad level curve tho.

>>28337106
Whitney was actually one of the easiest for me. I just beat Clair and just barely. That Kindra was bullshit.

>>28337197
Sorry meant to link >>28337137

>>28336817
Because Green's pokemon have shit tier moves.

>>28337197
Once you beat Clair then the E4 shouldn't be an issue, Lance is even weaker than Clair since all you need is an Ice-type move to beat his best Pokemon.

>Smoochum used Powder Snow

done OP, I beat him for you

>>28336389
I'm using it as an example, gsc's shitty level curve doesn't actually make it harder, just tedious.

The battle tower proves that being the same level doesn't really matter.

>>28337273
>piloswine used ice shard

I did it faster

>>28336817
The battle with Blue was the perfect difficulty for me actually. It wasn't too hard nor too easy, it could easily turn around on you if you're not careful. I beat him with one pokemon left. It was a nice challenge.

>>28337324
Just drop the argument anon, no one's biting your bait today

>>28335922
>it still literally HANDS you a legendary before the elite 4
and now this is suddenly a good thing instead of a detrimental point of the game

>>28337370
It's only a good point when HG/SS does it.

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>>28335144
>He can't beat the game on a nuzlocke, on set with no healing items while using a team of Pokemon no higher than level 10 or higher, blindfolded while doing a handstand and yodeling All Star by Smash Mouth.
>The fucking plebs they allow on here these days.

>>28337370
If the game was already too easy than it would be a detriment, everyone agrees that the difficulty on HGSS is just about right despite the level curve.

>>28336817
blue's team was trash, the only real threats are alakazam and his starter, and that's only because psychic is so fucking overpowered and his starter is so overleveled. frlg actually presents a decent challenge though, but it's still a bunch of shitmons. i don't know how people can complain about teams like alder's or diantha's when blue's team is such garbage.

>>28335922

>Crystal/HgSs hands you a legendary
>"Omg best game ever, evrything else is shit hurr hurr"

>OrAs hands you a legendary
>"This is dumb, izi mode, who dafuq hands legends like this, back in my days you had to track down this faggot hurr hurr"

/vp/ everybody

>>28337445
see >>28337408

>>28333494
>not sweeping lance with a quagsire w/ ice beam

MUH DWAGGONS

>>28337495
you literally pass through a cave full of ice mons, and before fightning the dragon gym leader non else, you have to be literally autist to lose against a guy with three 4x weak ice mons

>But muh underlevel
swinub learns ice shard in this gen for god sake

>>28337445
You fight Lugia/Ho-oh and catching them is optional, and the catch rate is not smaller than usual

You get Latios/Latias, and there is no option to refuse, and the game will send a pokemon back to the box for you if you have no space

>>28337583
right, because saving wasnt an option back then

>>28337610
You know someone's out of an argument when they can't even refute someone else's point and instead have to deflect onto something entirely unrelated.

>>28333805
>about to enter the tin tower to fight ho-oh
>only move that deals a significant amount of damage is heracross with rock tomb but he gets outsped and oneshot
>suddenly get a call from mom telling me she spent my money on some bullshit again
>it's a choice scarf
Why is mom so fucking based?

>>28337408
>everyone agrees that the difficulty on HGSS is just about right
Most people say that it's one of the easiest game in the series but the level curve provides an artificial difficulty of sorts.

>>28337408
>>28337475
the thing is hg/ss would be piss easy if not for the stupid level curve. the e4 the first time around is a fucking joke, karen's gengar has fucking lick when not four gyms ago you were fighting a gengar with shadow ball. and i understand that part of it was to preserve part of the moveset from the originals, but on other hand, that's fucking stupid. fr/lg didn't give blue's rhydon leer and tail whip, and hg/ss should have given karen's gengar shadow ball. that's just a drop in the bucket compared to all the dumbed down shit in hg/ss.

>>28337495
you can't have ice beam at that point in the game can you? And just know that if you say the words "Voltorb Flip" you should kill yourself

>>28337408
>>28337689
>everyone
>most

>>28337610
Literally what

>>28337673
Best mom

>>28337689
>artificial difficulty

he posted it again lol

>>28337583
You mean higher. Also the legendary is forced on you, you can't leave without encountering it and most people just hucked a master ball at it.

Basically you're saying that because you battle it it means you're not being handed legendary.

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>>28337745
Electrode flip

>>28333702
You actually did yourself a favor, for some asinine reason once you finish Kanto and move onto Orange Islands, you stop getting EXP from opponents forcing you to use Rare Candies to keep up with the curve.

>>28337408
HGSS would literally be the easiest game if not for the retarded level curve. No Pokemon game is really hard at all but having random level spikes in place of "difficulty" is just bad design.

>>28337786
Are you handed every wild pokemon you come across in every pokemon game, because of the possibility of catching them?

>>28337745
>if you say the words "Voltorb Flip" you should kill yourself
Git gud nigger, voltorb flip is fun

>>28337870
essensially yes, how are you supposed to play pokemon without pokemons? tard

>>28337764
You do realise if the NPCs outlevel you but lack the AI and moves required to make them a legitimate threat that's artificial difficulty right?

It doesn't require any skill, thought or strategy to defeat just the bare minimum of requirements statwise. Which means grinding to lengthen the game.

A lot of older games did that believe it or not and considering how short gen 2's main campaign was it's understandable that they would do such a thing.

>>28337786
If you do that you're out a master ball and that makes which makes the trio a massive fucking pain in the dick if you want one of them too. The Lati@s in ORAS is totally free.

Well Ho Oh steamrolled the E4 and we got stonewalled by stupid ass cheating Lance.

Fuck it I'm putting my Pokes in the daycare for a couple hours and tapping down my d-pad so my character can run forever. Fuck your grinding GameFreak.

>>28337882
whats voltorb flip?

>>28337924
casino game, win tokens to get ice beam

>>28337912
You're retarded and bad at Pokemon despite HGSS's awful level curve. The fuck is wrong with you?

I dont see the problem with the level curve. Yes, when at the victory road/elite four you are probably around the mid/late 30's with your teams levels. Even at those levels i dont think its a problem to face the elite four as their teams dont have any problematic pokemon(Except Karens Houndoom which can set up Nasty Plot and outspeed a lot of pokemon at the early lvl 40's). Lance and his dragons are not hard, you just need a strategy.

>>28337924
http://www.voltorbflip.com/play

Have fun

>>28337910
you know what else is free? the fucking pc service. just box it if it offends your autism that fucking much. seriously, you can't fucking tell me you missed hunting for the lati twins with the retarded roaming legendaries mechanic, can you?

>>28337745
JFYI there's already an online calculator for this, in case you are too much of a lazy ass and cant math

>http://www.voltorbflip.com/

>>28333494
Really? I didn't have much trouble with this game, but I tend to only have 3-4 Pokemon in my team maximum, so without grinding I always end up like 10-15 levels higher than who I'm facing next.

>>28337870
>Are you handed every wild pokemon you come across in every pokemon game, because of the possibility of catching them?
Yes, they have extremely high catch rates and GSC/HGSS gave you even more Pokeballs to utilize against them.

>>28337910

I see a mild inconvenience as little "harder" than totally free. Not even the same guy, but Latis were never especially hard to track/catch and in both games? They ended up collecting dust in the PC.

>>28337910
>tracking down legends is hard
>how do I poop in the toilet?

you cant seriously be this autistic

>>28337912
I cant tell if bait or legitimately autistic

I was just playing this shit a month ago and I genuinely don't remember what you guys are talking about with a strange "level curve". I really did not notice. I hammered through most of the elite four with my trusty Starmie no problem.

>>28337870
Ofc you are, how else do you play pokemon? thats the fucking point if the game you dumb autismo

>>28334268
>"I spam full restores to defeat the elite 4"

>>28338018
Difficult, no. A pain in the ass? When you have to do it every single time they break out of a ball, yes.

>>28337993
You're losing me. This seems like a real stretch just to make it that HGSS's Ho-oh/Lugia Encounter is equivalent to ORAS' Lati@s encounter

>>28333920

Weird, I didn't go out of my way to grind and most of my team was on par for this fight.
Seems like cherrypicking, though only from my experience.

...but If being over-leveled is a problem why not just turn off the exp share? I mean, people are gonna grind either way if they cant git gud.

>>28335118
I thought that was the first black and white thanks to drillbur/excadrill

>>28337760
>save before legend battle
>weaken legend
>spam balls until you are out of balls or out of mons
>if catch = false then reset DS
>repeat until catch = true

>>28337910
>If you do that you're out a master ball
So? It's not exactly hard to capture a roamer if you have something with mean look, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag and so on.

You're basically saying
>Hey you get handed this one but now this one is hard so it's okay.
By that logic the Lati are okay because there are about 10 other legendaries with capture rates of either 5 or 3.

>>28333818

To be fair OP sounds like a scrub in general.
My first trips to the elite 4 have always been mostly oneshots and I can't remember failing even back in Red/Yellow.

>>28338043
Most trainers after Lake of Rage don't get that much stronger as you progress, while only boss characters like Gym Leaders and Team Rocket Admins have upwards 12 levels over them.

That's what people are talking about. Some think it's retarded and could have been fixed others think its completely fine because it adds "challenge". Personally I dont find it challenging at all and still steamrolled the game, it's just a weird thing to fight trainers that are massively underleveled for ages.

>>28338101
mean look comes to my mind, thats how I caught latias (sapphirefag here) back then

>>28338148
>4chan rule no.1: OP is always a faggot

>>28338185
Johto trio knew Roar.

>>28338032
>>28337948
I'm for real. I dont know whats wrong. I didn't have this much trouble with the game when I played it 6 years ago.

I might be getting too old for these games.

>>28338226
while thats true, jhotto trio also picked moves randomly, raikou tried to spark my dugtrio two time in a row

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>>28338274
>here's your (you) now fuck off

>>28338277
That means you have an average of 4 moves/pokeballs before them running away thanks to roar.

>>28338298
Who are you quoting?

>>28338318
that also means that you had 75% chance of them not roaring, I can work with those odds

>>28338132
Okay?

>>28338133
How can you not see the difference between something you HAVE to get and something you choose, thn have to try to get?

Also the AI cheats.

Lance got a Critical Hit on my Espeon with Waterfall and OHKO'd it. I restarted the game like 3 times and he still got those criticals.

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>>28338277
>>28338318
>mean look
>taunt
Do you two even play Pokemon? Just use a Crobat niggers.

>>28338390
>raikou used spark
>its super effective

>>28338366
>How can you not see the difference between something you HAVE to get and something you choose
You don't really have a choice with Ho-oh and Lugia. You're just forced into a battle with it and chuck a master ball at it.

>>28338390
>turn 1:
>crobat used mean look
>raikou used roar

>>28338415
>Spark
>killing Crobat
252+ Atk Raikou Spark vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 212-252 (68.1 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>28338366
>Okay?
not him but I think he meant saving before the legend battle and if you failed you can try again from the save file

>How can you not see the difference between something you HAVE to get and something you choose, then have to try to get?
Actually you are kinda forced for ho-oh and lugia, and if you dont use the master ball for them then for who? and before you say the jhotto trio I would take a cover legend over any of them any day, but thats just me

>>28338490
>and before you say the jhotto trio
He said that before which sparked the whole how to deal with roamers argument.
It makes no sense using it on them anyway seeing as you have to deal with at least two other roamers after using the master ball anyway.

>>28338490
I always end up not using it as I say "let me save it for another legendary"

>>28338422
The game will continue I'd you choose not to catch it. In fact, the Kimono Girls literally say this

>>28333494
>it's
>raging at the difficulty of a children's game

Adds up.

>>28338486
>guaranteed 2HKO
Totally useless then, since mean look disapear once crobat die

>>28338574
>The game will continue I'd you choose not to catch it. In fact, the Kimono Girls literally say this
True that, but iirc this is the only chance in the game for soft resets if you are into that

>>28338614
Guaranteed 2HKO from a level 100 adamant Raikou with 252 in attack against completely uninvested, neutral nature Crobat.

>>28338679
still useless, it can't even put raikou to sleep

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>>28333494
There are two pokemon that can guaranteed sweep lance. Starmie around mid 40s and gyarados mid 40s as well so it knows dragon dance. Starmie is a little trickier surf by the Cliffside cave route (not sure if day or night.) Then, before e4 you have to get yourself a water stone which can happen when a random sailor calls you, or you grind pokathlon points on a certain day. (Can't remember which)you can grind both of these easily in victory road with all the mid 30s rock and ground types.
But yeah
Starmie lv45 @NEVERMELTICE
preferably modest
Evs don't matter
Surf
Psychic
Blizzard/ice beam
Thunder/tools

You hit everything on lances team with s.e. damage and can outspent most. Aerodactyl will 2hko you with crunch but on surf should do it.

Gyarados lv45 @shell bell
Preferably adamant or jolly
No Evs
Waterfall
Ice fang
Eq
Dragon dance
Set up on his own gyarados.
He'll probably use dragon pulse repeatedly so use dragon dance 3 times, no more, no less, ice fang should be a 2hko at this point and shell bell will get you almost up to full health. Sweep away.

>>28338832
Lapras is also really good against Lance, but is kinda slow.

>>28338747
Also it's worth noting that Crobat will be around level 50 - 55 or so while Raikou is 40.
252+ Atk Raikou Spark vs. 0 HP / 28 Def Crobat: 72-86 (41.1 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And that's literally the strongest a spark can get from it and it can't even reliably KO if it's got at least 28 Defense EVs.

Also you can breed hypnosis onto it if you want to.

>>28333638
(You)

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>>28338934
I like using lapras with avalanche. Brave nature. It's bulky enough to take an outrage from dnite and ohko with a 120 base power physical ice move. Give it a shell bell and you'll get back a good chunk from what outrage took. Round it off with ice shard to finish of other dnites or as a last priority hurrah.

Is HeartGold a good game to get started with Pokemon?

I've played a little bit of Pokemon X, Emerald and Red before, but I want to get into one of the "signature games" and play them more seriously.

>>28333748
give all your money to your mom, and train at the E4.
Eeven if you lose, you win because you trained real hard.

>>28339828
You can start with any game.
But if you're planning on buying start with a gen 5 game so you don't have to buy more games than necessary to transfer up.

>>28339908
I'm using an R4 card to play DS/i games on my 3DS XL, will I be able to transfer my Pokemon
from the R4 to a hereafter bought game?

>>28339984
You'll ned an original gen V game

>>28339984
Bank doesn't work with games on an R4 so you need an actual copy of the game.
Preferably Black and White 2 because it reintroduced the mass pokemon moving and you need them to be in box 1.

>>28340074
So there's no point in playing HeartGold on the R4, and I should just buy a copy of Black&White?

>>28340128
If you can play it for the experience but transferring isn't really an option.

>>28340128
You can play it to enjoy it. Also you may want to transfer from Gen 4.

>>28340211
I don't think he can transfer from Gen 4 if he's using an R4 either because it requires download play on the system with the gen 4 game in.
Someone correct me if I've gotten this wrong I haven't transferred up in a while.

>>28337578
this desu, mammoswine is super easy to get and can be used to shit on lance

>>28340295
Huh. I'd like this confirmed too actually, since I assumed that you could transfer, trade and battle with an R4.

>>28340360
You need originals to transfer to the next gen.

>>28334591
/thread

>>28336095
Honestly I had more trouble with Gyarados than Kingdra

Always emjoyed an overleveled E4. Was very satisfying to train against them.

After like 10 times of getting beat, you come out on top and it's very satisfying.

>>28335045
Gible is hidden in a cave thats not visible if you dont know about it. In D/P i think there were at least strength rocks there so you couldnt get gible until after gym 6. I guess it was too much to ask to keep those in place