Pokémon Lore General

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Starting by posting this.

Yeah, it's looking like Type: Null is going to bring us back to Arceus lore in some way. I think everybody has already figured that out.

I will add however, that I think Type: Null will be able to use the Arceus Plates to change Type, making those items actually worthwhile on a non-Mythical Pokémon.

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>mfw making a thread about how Colress look like Aether Fundation for shit and giggle
>People actually put thing together

I love you /vp/

>>28332628
>dat pic
goddamn the nostalgia....nothing compared to johto purely because the idea of new unexplored lands and new unknown pokemon was so novel

Personally, i loved the fuck out of all the old pokegod theories

>>28332661
So far I only got the Arceus ring and Zygarde hexagons on Null. I thought that his metal legs are from Skarmory and the dog body is from Houndoom but on Null it just looks like a Generic animal and metal parts anyway

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>28332684

Well I made an updated version as well

fuck i meant
>>28332648

>>28332661

That could be nice. Maybe that explain his name? Type: Null, in the sense that he don't have his own type since he's a chimera? Maybe the plate will be his gimmick, which would be extremely nice

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>>28332684
This is my favorite "theory", because it's actually something I have suspected for a very long while.

Colress was INCREDIBLY underused in B2/W2. A couple years ago, the game writers revealed that B2/W2 were happening around the same time as X/Y. This was baffling to me, because unlike Gens 1/3 and 2/4, there wasn't really much connecting B2/W2 and X/Y, aside from two things.

A) Parfume Palace (and later Wally pointing out a connection between Kalos and Unova) being very Unovan. From the French Royalty-Inspired Serperior on the gates, to the statues of the Legendary Dragons. Pic Related.

B) Colress being mentioned as having visited Kalos. Now this, THIS, is huge. Because in B2/W2, he is talking about how he is searching for a way of bringing out the hidden potential in Pokémon, as well as being able to find a way to talk with Pokémon. Now he shows up in Kalos, one of two Regions that have a prominent foundation in Mega Evolution. And now, in Alola, we have the new discovery of a Rotom that can communicate with humans, and Z moves?

It was so obvious that Game Freak has been wanting to properly use this guy for a while. From the moment I saw the artificial island in the Region Artwork, I knew it was going to be Colress. Now all the evidence is piling up, it actually looks like I was right. Colress made the Rotom-Dex, helped make Null, and maybe even created Z Moves.

>>28332813
I head a theory that the name "Type: Null" is because it literally has no name, the PokéDex doesn't know what to call it, so it's basically named after the error code.

I have also heard a theory that it's obtainable by sending a Missingno into Bank, but I am very skeptical about that. I can't see Game Freak advocating using a glitch that corrupts data, just to get a new Pokémon.

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>>28332684
>>28332760
Holy shit

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>>28332713
Johto was really where Pokémon Lore began.

You could mention the Fossils in Gen 1, and speculate what they used to look like. Or talk about Ditto, and Mew, and Mewtwo. But for me, proper Pokémon Lore started when you discovered the Ruins of Alph.

>yfw the first time you turn on the Radio in the Ruins of Alph.
I think I pissed myself.

Do you think they will do any more with alternate realities? Delta Episode pretty much confirmed that not only do they exist, but different games have taken place in different realities.

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Sun/Moon seem to be revisiting and expanding lore from previous Generations. The Regional Art shows a Tin Tower-inspired building, and Type: Null is clearly reminiscent of Arceus. We have Zygarde getting his spotlight. But the big question I have;

>Will we ever see the Original Unova Dragon?

>>28332770
>>28332760
Protip buddy, just click on the numbers of the post you want to reply to. You meant for >>28332684, I presume.

>>28332863
>using a glitch that corrupts data, just to get a new Pokémon
nothings stopping them from tweaking the game code a little to make missigno appear without wrecking the game, though i do agree it sounds very far fetched

>>28332994
One Hundred Percent absolutely not.

The Delta Episode was basically a huge mess that confused a lot of people. What you have to understand is that the "Multiverse" has ALWAYS been Canon in Pokémon. Delta episode isn't even the first time it was mentioned directly. That honor goes to some NPC in Black/White. The concept of a Multiverse in Pokémon has only been used to explain two things;

>Version differences,
and
>Where all the Legendaries come from Hoopa's rings.

It's never actually been relevant to the story. I have seen people absolutely insisting that there are multiple timelines now, and I saw debates in a thread yesterday about "which timeline" S/M will take place in. It's absolutely ridiculous, especially considering Game Freak has already stated as such that there is only one timeline. Different realities of the same timeline.

The main thing that confused people was Zinnia babbling about a Hoenn without Mega Evolution, which led some not-so-clever people to conclude that everything except Gen 6 is in a different Timeline. In reality, it was just a nod to the older games. Pokémon has always made retcons and nobody bats an eye until Zinnia showed up.

TL;DR - No, alternate realities is never really going to be a thing Game Freak expand on in any relevant way, other than version differences.

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>>28332939
But lets be honest as much as i loved the feel and mysticism of gen 2 ruins of alph didn't really go anywhere it wasn't till the remakes when you brought in an arceus. And in gen 4 dpp and sshh take place during the same time they need to reestablish these two regions and get heavy with the connections

>>28332684
>>28332760
>>28332828
It will be a massive waste to not have Colress in this game.

>>28333177
Yeah, this. Even if other timelines come up again (and it will) I dont think it will ever be anything more than vague and ambiguous, except with definite things like separating Gens 1 and 2.

>>28333033
>Original Dragon
I'd say they'd save that for another game. I dont think they want to add to much at once.

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>>28332994
Well considering Crystal and sshg have two different female protagonist they could really take that somewhere by having Kris show up or something

>>28333275
Remakes always "replace" the originals in terms of Canon. (Or in the case of Gen 4, Platinum "replaces" D/P)

This has always been assumed, but is directly confirmed in Gen 5 when speaking to Cynthia, and she references the events of Platinum.

So, as much as this may hurt bro, Kris just doesn't Canonically exist anymore.

>>28332863
>"Type: Null" is because it literally has no name, the PokéDex doesn't know what to call it, so it's basically named after the error code.
Null is not necesarilly an error code tho. But yeah, it might be the case that the dex calls it that because its an unknown species.

Then again, the point of the pokedex in the games is that it has no info before you fill it.

>>28333275
>>28333312

I think Lyra/Kris are the same person from alternate realities. Same goes for other pcs that dont return, like Leaf is just female Red from another reality. Pokemon canon isnt very strict or well defined.

>>28333312
They probably dropped her considering dawn was also a blue haired girl :/ lame

>>28333239
Yeah, Gen 4 (Platinum and HG/SS) basically constructed Pokémon lore as we know it.

The only MAJOR addition since then is Mega Evolution. And to a minor extent, the mystery of the Original Dragon.

>>28333322
>the point of the pokedex in the games is that it has no info before you fill it.
That was only really a thing in the very early days. There's no way the kids are typing all of the shit in the PokéDex themselves. Especially when so many entries are duplicates, and a lot of the content (not EVERYTHING, I aint Richard) is rooted in Canonical information.

The idea that the PokéDex is empty when you receive it has been long forgotten.

>>28332939
No, the lore started with the Mew diaries in Cinnabar Island in gen I.

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>>28333239
Yeah, Johto's lore is good in Gen 2, but HGSS Johto is really the one that established itself as the biggest lore region. I'm replaying it now and practically every location has some lore or implication that makes me absolutely love this place even more

>Slowpoke Well built next to a rainy route where water can naturally fill it up
>watchtowers in Mahagony Town because it used to be run by Ninjas
>Glitter Lighthouse built in a place where Pokemon used to light up the sky and help sailors come back safely
>reference to how the Magnet Train Tracks over the route is an example of technology and nature crossing paths
>Unown helped shape the universe with Arceus
>old Johto-ites built the Embedded Tower so Rayquaza has a place to land in Johto

And that's not even all of it. Fuck, Johto is a 10/1 region for lore

>>28333275
Who is that girl

>>28332994
If you mean in the same way as BW did it, or paired versions always did, yeah.
If you mean something like Delta Episode where the existence of another world plays a part in the world maybe. But in DE it was mostly mentioned in passing and mostly as a reference to the original RSE.
But I wouldnt expect a complex story that entails multiple alternate realities or the player having to visit them.

>>28333177
>The Delta Episode was basically a huge mess that confused a lot of people.
It´s not a mess at all, you people are just too retarded to interpret what was actually said without meshing it with your headcanon.
Also, GF doesnt really know the actual pokémon fanbase so even if most people here didn´t get it, they wont know so it´s no guarantee of them not ever doing something like that again.

>It's never actually been relevant to the story.
Yes, in Delta Episode.

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>>28333401
>Who is that girl

Cut female pc from R/B/Y, can be seen in some promotional work and her design was later reused for Green in Pokemon Special.

>>28333312
>Remakes always "replace" the originals in terms of Canon.
Except ORAS and RSE of course.

>There's no way the kids are typing all of the shit in the PokéDex themselves. Especially when so many entries are duplicates
Those are gameplay workaround

>The idea that the PokéDex is empty when you receive it has been long forgotten.
How? It works the same way as it did in Gen 1, you only have more info in it now, but you still need to catch the mon to get all of it.

>>28333349
>They probably dropped her considering dawn was also a blue haired girl
That is actually, a very likely reason.

>>28333342
Well, while Pokémon definitely does not have a strict Canon, there are some things that are absolutely undeniably set in stone.

One of those things is that Red is the Canon protagonist of the Original Games. For all intents and purposes, Leaf doesn't exist, in any continuity.

As for Kris, like I said, she has simply been retconned/replaced by a different design. If they wanted her to exist too, they very much could have. Gen 3 and 5 (the Gens predating, and following Gen 4) both had multiple Rival/Friend characters. If they wanted Kris to exist, they could have, but they chose to replace her completely. Kris hasn't been in a game, or been relevant, for like 17 years.

On a side note, the Adventures Manga did the opposite. In that series, Lyra is the one who doesn't exist, because Kris was an already established character.

>>28333033
>>Will we ever see the Original Unova Dragon?
I've seen threads discussing the possibility of Zygarde being the Original Dragon. Considering how it leaves pieces of itself on regions it visits its not as farfetche'd as it sounds.
>Zygarde visits Unova
>It splits because of the brothers, one half becomes Zekrom and the other Reshiram
>The husk becomes Kyruem

>>28333464
The creator also said the adventures manga is his definitive universe and how he imagined the world of pokemon to be. I'm happy that's the case since the manga kicks ass

>>28333464
>Lyra is the one who doesn't exist, because Kris was an already established character.
Crystal acts as a counterpart of both, she´s not Kris either.

>>28333519
The issue there is that B2W2 happens at the same time as XY, so he´s divided and united at the same time at different places.

>>28333529
Be careful with using that quote here.
/vp/ somehow interprets that quote to him meaning he hates pokespe.

>>28333387
I mean, I guess. But it's very small and basic compared to the lore that has since followed it.

>>28333407
>you people are just too retarded to interpret what was actually said without meshing it with your headcanon.
Firstly, chill out. No need to go into an autistic spaz out over this. Secondly, I understand the Delta episode perfectly. The alternate reality shit that Zinnia mentions is never relevant to the Delta episode. It was just fanservice/a nod to the old games. It didn't change the timeline, it didn't reveal anything we haven't known since B/W, it was meaningless information that affected nothing.

They are never, ever going to distinguish separate timelines or alternate realities beyond what was said in the Delta episode.

>>28333460
>Except ORAS and RSE of course.
Nah, including those games. OR/AS (as much as I wish it was) is not it it's own separate timeline. If/When Gen 3 is ever referenced again, there very well may be specific nods to OR/AS.

>How? It works the same way as it did in Gen 1
Because they also haven't said it was empty since Gen 1. As far as I remember anyways. You get it at the start of your adventure to go an explore and discover. The Professors obviously already know all the information in it.

>>28333460
>Except ORAS and RSE of course.
No, ORAS just shows where the other games go when they are replaced

>>28333456
Oh, sweet.

>>28333464
Ironically, Johto does have multiple. Player character and Silver. They really decided to just not do Krys.

>>28333555
The manga is literally the more fleshed out version of the games with actual continuity and recurring characters it literally brought it all together before sun and moon

>>28333529
No he did not. He said it was how he envisioned the world, but this was also back when there was like 12 issues of it.

Remember, the games come first. The games are canon. The anime and manga are adaptations. If you like and enjoy the manga, that's awesome, but it's still ultimately an adaptation of the actual canon content.

>>28333519
I would be ok with this.

>>28333555
>Crystal acts as a counterpart of both, she´s not Kris either.
I understand that. The manga isn't canon to the games. But you should be able to understand the point I was making there.

>Be careful with using that quote here.
Well to be fair, taking the quote out of context happens a lot. The original creator of Pokémon is barely involved with the franchise anymore. And he said that back when the manga just started. I see fans of the manga use that quote all the time, as some kind of proof that the manga is the TRUE and CANON version of Pokemon, but it's just a bit silly to think that.

>>28333569
>Firstly, chill out.
Says the guy who said DE was a mess, and now even claims to have understood it perfectly.

>The alternate reality shit that Zinnia mentions is never relevant to the Delta episode.
It´s literally the reason why Zinnia messed with Devon´s plan. She said so.

> it didn't reveal anything we haven't known since B/W
Yes it did, it revealed that RSE are canon.

>Nah, including those games.
Then you clearly didnt get DE at all.

>OR/AS (as much as I wish it was) is not it it's own separate timeline.
I never said so.

> The Professors obviously already know all the information in it.
Oak asks you to fill it, there´s no info beforehand. I mean, the proffesors definitely know more than what the dex says when they give you but not all of it. There´s literally no reason they should give you an empty dex over how it´s done in the ashnime.

>>28333585
>No, ORAS just shows where the other games go when they are replaced
timeline-wise maybe, but not universe-wise.

>>28333634
The games have had continuity and recurring characters for a long time bro. They basically solidified it in Gen 4. Platinum and HG/SS brought all the lore together, confirmed the established timeline, and had a shitload of characters from all 4 Gens showing up all over the place.

Stop putting the Manga on a pedestal. I like it too, but it really hasn't done any kind of special achievement over the games other than being able to have it's protagonists have dialogue.

>>28333634
Not disagreeing though, just saying that it´s not liked here very much.

>>28333635
> I see fans of the manga use that quote all the time, as some kind of proof that the manga is the TRUE and CANON version of Pokemon, but it's just a bit silly to think that.
I have yet to see that here on /vp/ and I´ve been here since it started. Most times is used by haters to somehow prove pokespe is shit. Now how does the original creator of pokemon liking it prove its shit is beyond me.

>>28333555
>The issue there is that B2W2 happens at the same time as XY, so he´s divided and united at the same time at different places.
Multiverses. Also the cells in Alola form 50% of Zygarde, the way I see it the cunt litters regions with its cells and just leaves. Zygarde seldom reaches 100% form unless there's a catastrophe or some shit going on, the opposite would be cool:
>there's a catastrophe/dilemma inside Zygarde
>it splits becoming different pokemon

>>28333635
Well it's canon within its self as its own thing. It does a great job too better than the show. And a little better than the games since they never go all out story wise

>>28333681
>Multiverses.
Not aplicable here.

So basically delta epsiode is the goodbye to the old and hello to the new? Saying it happened but this is where we're at. No going back only forward

>>28332661
I don't know.
I mean that mask isn't actually a part of the Pokemon.

>>28333737
>So basically delta epsiode is the goodbye to the old and hello to the new?
Not at all.

>>28333654
RSE make references to Gens 1 and 2. Where they go, clearly the others will follow

Also, you know that you and the other anon agree on the DE and how it only replaces RSE right?

>>28333681
>multiverses
Firstly, no. Secondly, Multiverses should never be a casual explanation of any theory as that's too big of a thing needed just to make it possible

>>28333654
>Says the guy who said DE was a mess, and now even claims to have understood it perfectly.
It was and I do.

>It´s literally the reason why Zinnia messed with Devon´s plan. She said so.
I know.

>Yes it did, it revealed that RSE are canon.
No, it didn't, because if you had played B/W and know the quote I am referring to, you would have known that R/S/E were ALWAYS CANON.

ALWAYS.

EVERY, SINGLE. VERSION. OF. THE. GAMES. IS. "CANON".

Protip: this was NOT (N O T) revealed in the Delta Episode.

Literally nothing in the story, timeline, or lore, has changed thanks to the Delta episode. This is what you need to understand.

>Timeline Wise:
G1/G3 -> G2/G4 -> G5/G6 -> G7

>Continuity Wise:
The most recent games are always the "Canon" one, but version differences and older games exist as a Multiverse. THAT is what Zinnia was explaining. She feared that the meteorite was going to be sent and crash into one of the now-irrelevant versions of Hoenn in which there was no Mega Evolution (a nod to R/S/E)

Ta-da. Not hard to understand at all.

>>28333738
Don't z moves give form changes to the box legends What if after it's z move the helmet comes off?

>>28332939
>Johto was really where Pokémon Lore began.
Eh, I'd say it really opened up with the Regis.

>>28333750
So what is it than?? It expanded on x and y with how they explained the ultimate weapon created an alternate universe... Where megas are a thing right?

>>28333681
>Multiverses
That doesn't change the fact that B2/W2 and X/Y happen at the same time. This is what people seem confused about. People seem convinced that the "Mega Timeline" is completely separated, and none of the other games ever happened, but that is simply not true.

>>28333177
>One Hundred Percent absolutely not.
You do realise that Ultra Beasts come from other worlds right.

>The Delta Episode was basically a huge mess that confused a lot of people.
It's a really easy to follow especially if you explored the region before hand and read up on the lore of the region.

>>28333794
The Delta Episode was basically a handwave explanation as to why there are Mega's in Hoenn from the start of the timeline now (basically saying R/S/E are a universe where Hoenn didn't get Megastones)

That's about it.

They're certainly not "forgetting" the old. Just ESTABLISHING the new stuff in continuity if that makes sense.

>>28333759
>RSE make references to Gens 1 and 2.
Replaced by their remakes.

>Also, you know that you and the other anon agree on the DE and how it only replaces RSE right?
No, since the other guy said it replaces it in canon, which is not true.

>>28333764
>It was and I do.
Then try to act like that.

>I know
You said otherwise.

>No, it didn't, because if you had played B/W and know the quote I am referring to, you would have known that R/S/E were ALWAYS CANON.
The quote is only about Gen 5.

>EVERY, SINGLE. VERSION. OF. THE. GAMES. IS. "CANON".
[citation needed]

>The most recent games are always the "Canon" one
You just contradicted your entire idea.

>but version differences and older games exist as a Multiverse.
This contradicts the first part of this very sentences, holy shit anon. Multiverse doesnt mean one is canon, it means all of them are.

>She feared that the meteorite was going to be sent and crash into one of the now-irrelevant versions of Hoenn in which there was no Mega Evolution (a nod to R/S/E)
This contradicts your previous statement, if Zinnia mentioned the RSE universe then it has to be canon.

>Ta-da. Not hard to understand at all.
I agree it´s not hard to understand. Now try to actually understand it and not contradict yourself in the same post.

>>28333794
>So what is it than??
A post-league plotline in ORAS.

>>28333681
>Zygarde seldom reaches 100% form unless there's a catastrophe or some shit going on.
Is it safe to say that Ultra Beast arc which will eventually be happening in the Sun & Moon games will trigger the revival of 100% Zygarde form? Didn't the website mentioned that Ultra Beast possess immense power which brings terror to both humanity and Pokemon? This alone indicates that Ultra Beast will at certain point of time bring huge calamity to the world and Zygarde will appear to stop it?

>>28333871
>Multiverse doesnt mean one is canon, it means all of them are.
Multiverse doesnt mean one universe is canon, it means all universes are.

I correct this before you retardedly assume I´m talking about the games and not the in-game universes.

>>28333837
>The Delta Episode was basically a handwave explanation
Going into heavy detail isn't a handwave.
A handwave would be something like the Dragonball Super Manga.

>>28333820
>It's a really easy to follow
Bro, why do you and the other anon think I didn't understand it? It was a mess, but I understood it fine. It wasn't hard to understand at all, just poorly put together.

>You do realise that Ultra Beasts come from other worlds right.
Yes, I do, it's not quite the same thing as trying to establish multiple continuities and timelines, like some people think is happening. Having the UB's come from other dimensions is completely new information. They don't even look like they're from Earth.

>>28333871
>[citation needed]
Zinnia and the guy in B/W establishing Version Differences as parallel worlds.

>You just contradicted your entire idea.
No I didn't, you're misunderstanding me.

Every single game is canon, BECAUSE parallel worlds exist (as an explanation to version differences, and retcons like Typing and Megas)

HOWEVER, when it comes to relevancy, only the most recent versions of the games are relevant. For example, Diamond and Pearl are parallel worlds/versions of the Sinnoh story. However, when you talk to Cynthia in Gen 5, she referenced the events of Platinum Version instead. This is because the most recent version of a game is always the go-to in terms of the relevant Canon one to the timeline. OR/AS are no different.

So, our MAIN Canon is;

FireRed/LeafGreen = OmegaRuby/AlphaSaphirre -> HeartGold/SoulSilver = Platinum -> Black/White -> Black 2/White 2 = X/Y

The other versions of these games exist, as parallel universes, but this is the current, most up-to-date version of events that are relevant to the current Canon.

Inb4 some normie comes in here saying this is autism because they cannot into lore

>>28333789
>Ecruteak City
Not even that alone, either

>>28333871
RSE got replaced by it's remake too, making them go back to talking about the originals

>>28333958
>into detail
What detail? Zinnia mentions that sending the meteorite to another dimension may make it crash into another version of Hoenn without Mega Evolution (a nod to R/S/E)

That's it. Not a lot of detail there, because it was just a nod to the old games.

Okay so what about the fact they re released red and blue? And the fact it has compatibility with sun and moon. Does that mean the original gen 1 games are the established kanto games? Meaning its
RedBlue-OrAs
Plat-SsHg
Black and white
Blck2wht2-XY

And now sun and moon

>>28334031
so R/S/E are confirmed to be another dimension's Hoenn?

>>28334031
Okay i get your point of view but what if she's a kind of a precursor to other dimension hopping characters? There's no telling what they could pull in later installments

>>28334056
No, I don't think re-releasing an old game counts in the way fully remaking it does.

Also, the original versions of Gen 1 don't have the stuff that places it with Gen 3 in the timeline.

>>28334059
Yeah

>>28334005
>Zinnia and the guy in B/W establishing Version Differences as parallel worlds.
of Gen 3 and 5. What about 1 and 2?

>Every single game is canon, BECAUSE parallel worlds exist
The very concept of parallel worlds is unrelated to canon. It would only matter if there´s a reference to that specific world like in Gen 5´s NPC and Zinnia´s quote on material that we know is canon. Those quotes have been used to explain how both the blacks and whites, and RSE and their remakes are all canon. They didnt claim every single version difference is because of another universe.

They might be, but we have no confirmation.

>HOWEVER, when it comes to relevancy, only the most recent versions of the games are relevant.
"canon" and "relevancy" are unrelated concepts.

>So, our MAIN Canon is
Saying there´s a main contradicts the entire point of having a canon. If, as you say, every game is canon then every game is canon and that´s it. The very fact that you claim there´s a main is contradictory with this idea.

> current Canon.
this too contradicts your entire point.

>>28334091
You're right so i guess the og gen 1 games are the games where hoen gets rekted

>>28334031
>What detail?
About Infinity Energy mostly as well as the origin of Mega Stones.

>>28334012
>RSE got replaced by it's remake too
On the current universe, but they´re both canon, it´s stated in DE.

>>28334059
Yes, that´s literally just what Zinnia said and most people can´t grasp.

>>28334005
>It was a mess, but I understood it fine. It wasn't hard to understand at all, just poorly put together.
But WHAT was so hard to understand?
WHAT made it poorly put together?
If you're going to say that it's hard to follow then at least explain your viewpoint

>>28334124
>What about 1 and 2?
For Gen 1, pokemon origin is your bill. Prof. Fuji in the Origin series is probably from an alternate universe which he claims to know about the Megastone.

>>28334056
Trade compatibility shouldnt be used because that's a clusterfuck. Also remember Emerald can trade with RSE, and Pt as well. You can bring an Emerald Zigzagoon to ORAS

>>28334124
>Saying there´s a main contradicts the entire point of having a canon.
I think he means, we're not going to be doing anything with that first set of games again

>>28334086
I mean, I GUESS.

If they REALLY wanted to go back to this idea of different dimensions and shit, and they wanted to flesh it out more, they could. Anything can happen.

But is it likely? It really, really is not, especially when the dimension stuff only exists to explain version differences and updates in the remakes. It's not the kind of Lore Pokémon is really built around. Someone mentioned the UB's being from other dimensions, but even that is probably going to be about as much of an explanation as.

>>28334124
>of Gen 3 and 5. What about 1 and 2?
>They didnt claim every single version difference is because of another universe.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that the parallel worlds doesn't apply to the rest of the Gens? Are you just trolling me at this point? If you are serious about this, surely you HAVE to understand how ridiculous it would be to think that what Zinnia said doesn't apply to the rest of the games.

>"canon" and "relevancy" are unrelated concepts.
I agree, I wasn't making myself clear enough until my most recent post, I admit.

>Saying there´s a main contradicts the entire point of having a canon
>If, as you say, every game is canon then every game is canon and that´s it
>The very fact that you claim there´s a main is contradictory with this idea.
Look, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I explained in my last post about how the most recent versions are the "relevant" ones, and even used Cynthia's reference to Platinum as an example. It's literal in-game proof of the writers using the most recent version as the "Canon" one, despite the fact that they acknowledge version differences as existing as parallel worlds. I have explained that fully, and if you can't understand it, or just disagree completely, then fine. You do you, pal. It literally doesn't affect/change the story, lore or timeline at all (which is my main point from the start), so it doesn't matter if you disagree on how it actually works.

>>28334193
>pokemon origin is your bill
not a game, never stated to be part of the main game canon, and it´s not the literal same as the gen 1 games so it doesnt even do what you say it does.

>>28334213
>I think he means, we're not going to be doing anything with that first set of games again
He´s talking about canon tho, so no.

>>28334124
>Saying there´s a main contradicts the entire point of having a canon
Not really, think of it like comics dude.
The marvel 616 universe is the main universe and yet we have events in other universes that are also canon and sometimes cross over like the ultimate universe.

Basically the main universe is the one that gets the most focus.

>>28334254
>Are you seriously trying to tell me that the parallel worlds doesn't apply to the rest of the Gens?
Yes, what´s your source to claim otherwise.

>surely you HAVE to understand how ridiculous it would be to think that what Zinnia said doesn't apply to the rest of the games.
Zinnia talked about a Hoenn specifically.

> I explained in my last post about how the most recent versions are the "relevant" ones, and even used Cynthia's reference to Platinum as an example. It's literal in-game proof of the writers using the most recent version as the "Canon" one
That means some versions aren´t canon and you said every version is.

>despite the fact that they acknowledge version differences as existing as parallel worlds
On specific cases, but even if you do extrapolate, you just said there are canon versions, so those can´t exist in different universes. Pick one, does every version exist in a canon parallel universe or some are just not canon?

>>28334289
>The marvel 616 universe is the main universe and yet we have events in other universes that are also canon and sometimes cross over like the ultimate universe.
That´s literally what I´m saying anon(except for pokémon instead of marvel of course).

>>28334289
Basically this, I don't know why people find it confusing.

There are three pokemon realities we know of
>Gens 1-2
>Gens 3-5
>Gens 6 and probably 7

All exist simultaneously and have their own canon.

>>28334289
This is a decent explanation of it I guess

>>28334335
Well, for starters, this is completely wrong. Sorry bud, looks like you're the one who is confused.

Protip: B2/W2 is confirmed to be happening alongside X/Y. Gen 6 isn't a new reality.

>>28334335
Gen 5 and 6 arent the same canon
it's shit

>>28334325
You two are arguing semantics

>>28334325
Bro, you're driving me crazy here. I feel like I have explained this the best I can, and you still don't get it.

I mean, lets take this;
>That means some versions aren´t canon and you said every version is.
I have explained like 3 times now about how the MOST RECENT version of a game is the Canonically RELEVANT one, while the other exist as parallel worlds. How the fuck are you still not understanding this?

As much as I'm enjoying reading both sides of the argument can one of you two post a theory? Y'all seem smart af

>>28334363
>Protip: B2/W2 is confirmed to be happening alongside X/Y. Gen 6 isn't a new reality.
XY is already confirmed to be a different universe because of the cannon event and mega evolutions.

>>28334335
>I don't know why people find it confusing.
Because you have to actually pay attention and interpret what´s being actually stated instead of meshing your headcanon in.

You got it wrong for example.

>Gens 1-2
never confirmed to be canon

>Gens 3-5
never stated to be separate to XY and FRLG,DPPT,HGSS and Gen 5 were never stated to not happen in the same universe as ORAS

>Gens 6
Never stated to not happen with FRLG,DPPT,HGSS and gen 5.

>>28334380
>You two are arguing semantics
Yes, the other guy doesnt get the difference between canon and multiverse.

>>28334397
>is the Canonically RELEVANT one
Relevancy and canonicity are not the same concepts. How the fuck are you still not understanding this?

>>28334363
No your wrong buddy. The events of B2/W2 take place in the universe where the ultimate weapon was never created and there are no megas.

A version of the events of B2/W2 happened in Gen 6's universe, as well as the events of the other games.

File: 1377211510236.jpg (3MB, 4250x4000px) Image search: [Google]

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>>28333698
>>28333759
>>28333802
>>Multiverses
All I'm saying is that if there are multiple universes a Zygarde could have split into the Tao Trio while a different Zygarde appears in Kalos. Alternatively, Zygarde leaves 50% of itself in every region it visits, which is what we're seeing now in Alola, so if Zygarde is the original Dragon he left the 50% that then split into the Tao Trio; this would mean that Zygard reproduces by leaving a 50% Zygarde in every region that has an ecosystem to protect which plays nicely with its original concept of Jormungand (Zygard surrounds the world because there's a 50% Zygard everywhere).

>>28333881
>100% Zygarde vs interdimensional monsters
WE EVANGELION NOW

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>>28334407
>>28334414
Ahem.

>>28334412
>never stated to be separate to XY and FRLG,DPPT,HGSS and Gen 5 were never stated to not happen in the same universe as ORAS
Anon, the fact that FRLG, DPPT, HGSS and BW/2 don't have mega evolution is what sets them apart. The whole mega evolution mechanic is the whole thing that separates them along with the event 3000 years ago.

>Never stated to not happen with FRLG,DPPT,HGSS and gen 5.
See above.

>>28334461
You realise that different universes don't mean different places in time right?

>>28334461
Yes and? The Timeline is the same throughout the different realities. If there are no Megas, it doesn't take place in the Gen 6 reality plane and simple.

>>28334412
>Relevancy and canonicity are not the same concepts.
I know this bro, I don't see how it discredits anything I have said.

The way I can see it, you can either go full multiverse and claim every version is canon. Or you can accept the most recent versions as being the go-to in canon. You can't pick-and-choose and try to create separate definitive continuities when the multiverse is a thing.

>>28334514
>>28334517
>You realise that different universes don't mean different places in time right?
>Yes and? The Timeline is the same throughout the different realities.
Ok, I can agree with that fully.

The way you were writing made it seem like you were suggesting these games never happened in the current timeline, which is just silly because we know they have. Just in a universe with Megas.

>>28334514
>Anon, the fact that FRLG, DPPT, HGSS and BW/2 don't have mega evolution is what sets them apart.
Not really, it just means that mega evolution doesnt affect the events happening there. Does literally everything happening on Earth affect your life in a significant way?

>>28334534
>I know this bro, I don't see how it discredits anything I have said.
You divide canon based on relevancy, which then you use to explain how there´s a single canon.

>The way I can see it, you can either go full multiverse and claim every version is canon.
multiverse and canon arent the same.

>Or you can accept the most recent versions as being the go-to in canon.
Yes, it´s what we do, but RSE is also canon despite having a remake.

> You can't pick-and-choose and try to create separate definitive continuities when the multiverse is a thing.
The point of the very concept of canon is that you dont pick and choose.

>>28334645
>Not really, it just means that mega evolution doesnt affect the events happening there.
That would imply those regions are absolutely devoid of meteorites and the people researching them and we know that isn't true because there are three meteorites in veilstone and the Pewter Museum specializes in space as a whole.
Then there's Mt. Moon which is famous for Meteorite landings.

I don't think you realise how wide spread mega evolution should be.

>>28334735
You make a good point but for all we know those regions didn't get any mega stones and mega evolution is a foreign concept just like z moves

>>28334735
>That would imply those regions are absolutely devoid of meteorites
>meteorites can only be related to mega evolution

>I don't think you realise how wide spread mega evolution should be.
According to your headcanon. No what we´re discussing tho.

>>28334645
>Not really, it just means that mega evolution doesnt affect the events happening there. Does literally everything happening on Earth affect your life in a significant way?
>RSE is also canon despite having a remake.
You know what mate, can we just drop this here? As >>28334405 suggested, we'd be better off discussing other shit. It's not even like we're even disagreeing with each other on anything meaningful. We both agree on the overall shit of what is Canon, so why are we even doing this?

>>28334735
>That would imply those regions are absolutely devoid of meteorites
Actually, that is exactly true. Meteorites with Mega-Stones anyway. OR/AS and X/Y both explain how they got Mega Stones, and it was very Region specific. Even Pokémon Origins suggested that Red's Mega Stone was something not found in Kanto at all.

>>28334783
>>meteorites can only be related to mega evolution
That is where they come from, yes.
The first megastone was a large meteor that hit the earth and created Sootopolis.

>>28334807
Yes, mega evolution comes from meteorites.

Now, how do literally all meteorites relate to mega evolution?

>>28332684
I don't get how Colress was supposed to be a bad guy.
He basically manipulated Ghetsis into funding his research.

>>28334822
>Now, how do literally all meteorites relate to mega evolution?
Who knows but they seem fairly common if ray can charge himself up on a regular meteorite. Also it's possible that there's a connection with Deoxys as well seeing as more appeared after DE and shattering his meteor.
Deoxys also happens to be the connecting factor as the meteors in Veilstone and Mt. Moon or the surrounding area if I remember right, can change Deoxys' form.

>>28334877
He wasn't really a bad guy. Looker doesn't even arrest him, like with the Sages. He was pretty neutral.

>>28334887
The meteorite Ray swallowed has a mega stone in it. I thought that was pretty explicit

>>28334887
>Who knows but they seem
>it's possible
So, no proof?

>Deoxys also happens to be the connecting factor as the meteors in Veilstone and Mt. Moon or the surrounding area if I remember right, can change Deoxys' form.
How does this contradict the events in ORAS?

>>28334789
>and it was very Region specific.
Which part implies that they're region specific? Because if they originate from space there's no reason why it should be.

In XY there's Sycamore's theory that they're evo stones affected by infinity energy but that's kind of debunked by ORAS.
Also I think one of the questions we really need to ask is what does the sundial have to do with Mega evolution.

>>28334407
>>28334514
>>28334517

Megas exist in Gen 5, they just arent important to Unova. Existing doesnt mean being the centre of everything

>>28334936
Anistar Sundial and the Kalos war 3000 years ago was why there are mega stones in Kalos.

A meteor crashing into Hoenn hundreds of years ago containing mega stones, explains why that region also had megas.

In OR/AS, which you should know predates X/Y, it was very much local lore. Remember how you have to talk to Zinnia and Wallace and shit just to learn about it.

Sycamore in X/Y is the first time a Professor has started official public research on Mega Evolution

>>28334944
>Megas exist in Gen 5
Steven says hi.

>>28334995
That doesn't exactly explain how they're specific to Kalos and Hoenn if they're from space and meteorites fall in more or less random locations.
Especially since there are areas in Pokemon that attract Meteorites like crazy.

>>28335001
>character has a mega
>he has to use it every single time ever!!!

Also, by that logic, B2W2 can´t be in the same universe as FRLG and HGSS due Giovanni.

>>28335056
How does Giovanni present a contradiction?
Also if you're in a world tournament against the best why wouldn't you bring your best Pokemon?

>>28335042
Mega Stones are not in every single meteorite ever. So far, just the one that crashed into Sootopolis contained Mega Stones.

>>28334735

Not every meteorite will lead to Megas?

>>28335001
Hi Steven

I should say, Megas exist in the universe that Gen 5 takes place in, even if they arent mentioned. The argument is that Megas "should" be a big deal, or the meteors "should" create megas in every region,and the other argument is that it simply didnt, according to the information we have from the games and developers

>>28335042
Does every rock contain every element? Why would every meteor have something that causes Megas? Even in game, Kalos doesnt have every Megastone that exists.

>>28334921
>The meteorite Ray swallowed has a mega stone in it. I thought that was pretty explicit
Not him but that one evolves into one over time but Cozmo implies that meteorite shards in general have that innate energy. Which is wht they were going to use to invoke mega evolution energy using t he infinity energy.

>>28335001
Uhh, what? No. You can't just ignore the developers, and all the stuff they put in the games, just because Steven wasn't using a Mega. Nobody in the PWT used Gen 6 or 7 Pokémon either, so by this logic, only the most recent Generation can ever be properly canon.

If you need an explanation, lets just assume Mega's were banned in the PWT. Makes much more sense.

>>28335110
>If you need an explanation, lets just assume Mega's were banned in the PWT.
That's a pretty wide assumption given they haven't been banned from any other facility.

>>28335133
But Every single meteor ever having Mega Stones isnt a wide assumption

>>28335133
It's perfectly fine if you consider only Hoenn characters would have easy access to Megas. Why should they get an advantage?

>>28335072
>How does Giovanni present a contradiction?
He´s not Gym leader anymore, and a wanted criminal who somehow is on a world tournament that everyone is watching.

>Also if you're in a world tournament against the best why wouldn't you bring your best Pokemon?
Steven has Metagross tho.

>>28335152
>But Every single meteor ever having Mega Stones isnt a wide assumption
No one said every single one was. Just that it's highly unlikely for them not to be more wide spread across a planet that's constantly pelted by Meteorites.

>>28335199
>No one said every single one was.
It´s the basis of your entire argument.

>>28335233
Please point to that specific implication.

>>28335199
Maybe, but this is what we are being told to believe, so for now we must just accept it. Currently the only confirmed Megastone distribution from a meteorite crash is in Sootopolis. Until we get more confirmed, we just have to accept the info we have been given.

>>28335267
I suppose we should come to conclusion as to what defines the two universes then before continuing.

>>28335266
>>28334735

>>28333456

You mean Blue not Green... Green is the boy yah fag.

>>28335318
None of that implies that ALL of them are meteorites. Just that the constant research and impacts should have yielded something.

>>28335299
There isn't two universe, there's a multiverse that follows one single timeline;

1/3 -> 2/4 -> 5/6 (and then presumably -> Gen 7)

There's universes with Mega's, and universes without, but the games remain unchanged, Timeline of games is always the same.

>>28335375
Only if you're Japanese or a weeaboo.

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>>28335199
But it doesnt matter how unlikely it is if it's also true.

Plus, I'd assume that Hoenn is pelted by them more, or got pelted by a specific one. Not even Kalos got megas from a meteorite

>>28335299

>>28335375
We arent in Japan so no.

>>28335404
>None of that implies that ALL of them are meteorites.
You mean mega evolution meteorites. And yes, it´s literally what it implies, you pointed out other meteorites in the franchise and said that they have to be related to mega evolution since they are meteorites. You have yet to prove this relation.

>Just that the constant research and impacts should have yielded something.
>should
Use facts, not what you think should happen. It´s prefectly viable they arent investigating mega evolutions and meteorites in general. If not, prove it. With facts.

>>28335454
You cropped that from my pic anon? Because in the full pic I make it clear those are universes, not timelines.

>>28335473
>you pointed out other meteorites in the franchise and said that they have to be related to mega evolution since they are meteorites.
Yeah no, you're reading into things that aren't there now.

The post says that they should be more common, not that they're all the same.

>>28335454
That's a pretty solid picture to give a very basic understanding of the timeline.

Only the second one matters though. If you think about it, the Gen 6 additions are permanant, so why is the Gen 5 timeline even worth mentioning

>>28335526
>they should be more common
On what basis?

> not that they're all the same
So where´s the contradiction?

>>28335538
> of the timeline.
multiverse

>so why is the Gen 5 timeline even worth mentioning
To get the full picture.

>>28335503
Yes I did, the rest of the stuff was nice but not really necessary here.

Plus, OR and AS are different universes where the other Team is bad, and Sun and Moon seem to be different based on how events play out too.

I can't handle it /vp/. I'm certainly looking for to SM but Colress is what is really getting me hyped and I can't stand the thought of all this just being fan bullshit and nothing coming of it.

>>28332863
>a glitch that corrupts data
>Missingno.
Missingno. doesn't corrupt data, it just messes up your HoF on the PC. M' doesn't either unless you catch it at lv. 0 and let it go to the box, since lv. 0 mons have negative exp. which the game can't handle and crashes on withdrawing. But even that doesn't corrupt data since you can avoid it/ignore the unusable box.

The REAL data corrupting mons you're thinking of are ones like this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1dQq6_xa8-U

>>28335710
It's Gamefreak. Of course they will pass up the oportunity to do it.

Then again, they didnt make the Unown more important, so anything is possible

>>28335588
>On what basis?
On the basis that meteor strikes are extremely common in the pokemon universe. Mt. Moon and Meteor falls being one of the few areas that seem to attract them in particular.

>So where´s the contradiction?
The fact they haven't discovered anything at all. On a planet pelted by meteorites on a regular basis.
Even a single stone would have been understandable but just to assume they only exist in two regions specifically?

>>28335702
>Plus, OR and AS are different universes where the other Team is bad

>OR and AS are different universes
We dont know, it hasnt been stated in stone like in Gen 5. IIRC, the full pic(not at hand) says version differences are taken as "general events" which applies to ORAS and every other pair there.

>>28335817
Even if we assume this to be true, Mega Stones could have easily landed in these regions and we simply didnt see/hear about it.

Look at BW2. Lentimas Town and Aspertia City existed during BW, even though there wasnt a single mention of them.

>>28335773
You missed Shinjoh ruins event?

>>28335817
>On the basis that meteor strikes are extremely common in the pokemon universe.
That only makes it more likely there are non-mega related meteorites, which goes against your point.

>The fact they haven't discovered anything at all.
Or Red and Lucas werent informed of it because it wasnt relevant.

>Even a single stone would have been understandable but just to assume they only exist in two regions specifically?
I´d rather "assume" there are mega evolution meteors on the regions stated to have those than assume other regions are in a completely different universe because they dont have them.

>>28335867
I meant to say did.

>>28335821
I mean, playing OR, Archie started talking about a world where he was the crazy one instead

>>28335854
Fair point but like I said before there are areas that do research into them. Mt. Moon being one of those locations is the reason why the Pewter Museum is where it is. Along with the abundance of fossils of course.

>>28335867
>That only makes it more likely there are non-mega related meteorites, which goes against your point.
I never said that they all were mega related meteorites anon just that the impact frequency should have revealed more in places like Kanto

>Or Red and Lucas werent informed of it because it wasnt relevant.
That's extremely unlikely. Especially when you consider how many facilities both stick their noses into Red in particular infiltrates Silph, Pokemon mansion and the Rocket warehouse on 5(?) island which specifically researches evolution.
At that point in time Mega evolution is public knowledge and has been featured on television before unless they've been deeply engrossed in research it's unlikely that they would ignore Mega Evolution and have nothing on it.
That and Mega Stones are hard to miss as they have a natural glow about them.

>I´d rather "assume" there are mega evolution meteors on the regions stated to have those than assume other regions are in a completely different universe because they dont have them.
Despite the fact that the mega evolution mechanic is one of the big separations between the universe.

>>28336226
Pokemon Breeding is public knowledge and Professor Elm is so far still the only Professor that researches it.

Either they are specialized (a biologist wont be studying rocks, even if the rocks are next to him) or they are just currently researching something else, and so ship off al Stones to the person who's already spent forever on them.

Basically all the protagonists journeys occur. Just details whether Mega Evolution exists/is accessible, what Pokemon they capture, whether you're a boy or a girl ect changes. But core shit like Ethan/Kris/Lyra defeats Team Rocket, or Hilbert/Hilda becomes the dragon hero ect happen. Not to hard to comprehend.

>>28336331
Anon these are fairly large corporations and factions that have researched pokemon creation and Pokemon evolution.
Why wouldn't they research mega evolution as a part of that?

>>28336226
>I never said that they all were mega related meteorites
You implied so, which is the core of your argument, but if you say you don´t then lets ignore it.

> just that the impact frequency should have revealed more in places like Kanto
What facts stated in the game back this up?

>That's extremely unlikely.
According to who?

> Especially when you consider how many facilities both stick their noses into Red
Yes, people tell Red a lot of things. What proof do you have they have to tell him literally everything?

>in particular infiltrates Silph, Pokemon mansion and the Rocket warehouse on 5(?) island which specifically researches evolution.
There´s more to evolution than mega evolution.

>At that point in time Mega evolution is public knowledge and has been featured on television before unless they've been deeply engrossed in research it's unlikely that they would ignore Mega Evolution and have nothing on it.
>unlikely

>That and Mega Stones are hard to miss as they have a natural glow about them.
If you see them and you are on their proximity which might as well not be the case. There´s no mega stones in Calem´s house.

So, prove with facts in the game they all have to care about mega stones.

>Despite the fact that the mega evolution mechanic is one of the big separations between the universe.
"fact" you have yet to provide proof for. You´re doing a circular argument.

>>28336382
Maybe it's a fairly new thing and they have just begun

Maybe they have sent researchers to Kalos and Hoenn to work alongside with them

There could be any number of reasons

>>28336361
This. Red is canon but in BW2, the gender of the hero of BW is ambiguous

>>28336382
Big Data is a current trend in the IT field.
I work in IT and never had to deal with it.

IRL multiverses confirmed guys.

>>28336450
Well obviously there are multiple universes IRL, I still need to get back to the one where it's spelled Berenstein

>>28336395
>What facts stated in the game back this up?
The frequency?
Mt. Moon is famous for meteor impacts.
Taken from the FRLG map description
>A mystical mountain that is known for its frequent meteor falls. The shards of stars that fall here are known as Moon Stones.
and HG/SS
>A mountain where a star fell. It now holds a mysterious power.
This "mysterious power" is something worth noting as well.

>According to who?
The fact that Kanto seems to attract scientists that do research specifically into Pokemon and evolution.

>Yes, people tell Red a lot of things. What proof do you have they have to tell him literally everything?
There's a reason I said stick their nose into everything. There's no reason why he can't find research notes into it himself.

>There´s more to evolution than mega evolution.
Mega evolution is a type of evolution.

>If you see them and you are on their proximity which might as well not be the case.
Why wouldn't it be the case when the certain meteorites also glow in the same way? And if ORAS is anything to go by you don't need a charged keystone for them to react like you did in XY.

>There´s no mega stones in Calem´s house.
What does his house have to do with anything?

>So, prove with facts in the game they all have to care about mega stones.
>Mega evolution is a type of evolution.
The real question is why don't they care about mega stones and mega evolution if it's a modern day mystery that people are trying to figure out?

>>28336395
>"fact" you have yet to provide proof for. You´re doing a circular argument.
It helps if you've actually played the games and accept that there are questions and discrepancies in Pokemon.

>"My people know it. From generation to generation, we pass along the lore about the distortions in the world borne by the Mega Evolution mechanism. And about the existence of another world, which we have long observed to be just like this one and yet not the same... That's right. A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in. Filled with Pokémon and people like us. A world where maybe the evolution of Pokémon took a slightly different path, where Mega Evolution is unknown...

>>28336735
>Mt. Moon is famous for meteor impacts.
not for mega evolution meteor impacts.

>The fact that Kanto seems to attract scientists that do research specifically into Pokemon and evolution.
And how does that require the scientist to tell Red about mega evolution.

> There's no reason why he can't find research notes into it himself.
Yes, there aren´t notes about it in the game.
The game also doesnt have a mechanic to control Red´s breathing, so I guess Red doesn´t breath.

>Why wouldn't it be the case when the certain meteorites also glow in the same way?
Well, there are places in XY and ORAS, games with mega evolution where you don´t see mega stones. How do you explain that?

>What does his house have to do with anything?
It´s in Kalos, a region in a game with mega evolution.

>The real question is why don't they care about mega stones and mega evolution if it's a modern day mystery that people are trying to figure out?
People can be interested in different things.


>>28336760
>It helps if you've actually played the games and accept that there are questions and discrepancies in Pokemon.
That´s literally what I do, yeah. How does putting your headcanon in have anything to do with it?

>Zinnia´s quote
That´s about a Hoenn region, yeah. I don´t read anything about mega stones being literally everywhere in her own universe, or her saying the other games didnt happen.

>>28336184
He hypothetizes about it.

>>28336892
>not for mega evolution meteor impacts.
Says who?
As far as we know there's no separation and going by the meteorite shards it's plausible that a substantial amount of meteorites carry that energy. After all Cozmo doesn't ask you to look for a specific shard, just any shard to

>And how does that require the scientist to tell Red about mega evolution.
I never said they had to tell them anon. I said they should have some research notes on it or at least a passing mention. A huge discovery like that shouldn't go unknown and keep in mind it's been common place for well over 100 years by that point.
Not at least hearing about it would be like if the majority of our world had no idea what penicillin was.

>Yes, there aren´t notes about it in the game.
Which is an oddity considering how many people research Pokemon an evolution.

>The game also doesnt have a mechanic to control Red´s breathing, so I guess Red doesn´t breath.
That's false equivalence and you know it.

>games with mega evolution where you don´t see mega stones.
Except that the Meteorite the ORAS protag carries begins to glow faintly as it starts to change and that every mega stone in the region also glows. And if you say it's because of the meteorite, remember you can find them prior to that.

>It´s in Kalos, a region in a game with mega evolution.
Yes? That doesn't necessarily mean there are stones located within his house. Were his mother some kind of scientist, maybe. But not as it is.

>People can be interested in different things.
There are people literally researching evolution and you believe they just willingly ignored mega evolution for reasons.

>How does putting your headcanon in have anything to do with it?
What headcanon?
You're the only one here suggesting that they all exist in the same universe when we've been told otherwise.

>That´s about a Hoenn region, yeah.
No, it's about "another world" entirely. Which is why the weapon is mentioned as a discrepancy.

so we can call pokemon magical creatures right ? arceus called them like that

>>28337330
Yes, that's what they are

>>28337253
>Says who?
none of your quotes talk about mega evolution.

>As far as we know there's no separation
So.....all meteors have to be mega evolution related?

>I never said they had to tell them anon.
Yes you did, stop denying your own argument flaws.

>I said they should have some research notes on it or at least a passing mention.
>should
And why they should? Where´s the contradicion in Red not seeing them? Explain. Using facts.

>A huge discovery like that shouldn't go unknown
Who told you they don´t know about it? Why should they constantly talk about it?
There are NPCs in Kalos and ORAS Hoenn that dont talk about mega evolutions. Are the Gen 6 games different universes within themselves?

> keep in mind it's been common place for well over 100 years by that point.
So it´s not a discovery? I can have IRL conversations about topics that arent WW2. So I guess WW2 happened in another universe.

>Not at least hearing about it would be like if the majority of our world had no idea what penicillin was.
I can have conversations with IRL people that arent about penicillin. Explain that in a way that´s consistent with your argument.

>That's false equivalence and you know it.
Not really, no. Your implication is that every single detail of the game´s world should be explicitly told in-universe or it doesnt exist on that universe. I´m just going by that.

>That doesn't necessarily mean there are stones located within his house.
Your argument hinges on mega stones being literally everywhere so you can be always on their proximity so you can see their glow. So you admit you´re wrong then?

>There are people literally researching evolution and you believe they just willingly ignored mega evolution for reasons.
Mega Evolution is a kind of evolution, not even a permanent one, why should it be inherently more interesting to people than, say, evolution by trade?

>>28337253
>What headcanon?
Your entire argument. You are basing on things you thing should happen yet you can´t provide facts to sustain it.

>we've been told otherwise
When? Use facts to prove it.

>No, it's about "another world" entirely.
Which has a Hoenn without mega evolution, yeah. Which doesnt prove your point at all since the only difference mentioned is about Hoenn´s not even the other regions.

>>28337401
>none of your quotes talk about mega evolution.
I think you're beginning to miss the point of a lore thread.

>So.....all meteors have to be mega evolution related?
The key word being "substantial" anon. Meaning there's a lot but not all of them are.

>And why they should? Where´s the contradicion in Red not seeing them? Explain. Using facts.
You're just going around in circles now.
Okay, lets take Team Rocket. They're researching controlled evolution right? Mega evolution is a type of controlled evolution. The two things line up, why wouldn't they be researching it to aid them?

>Who told you they don´t know about it?
You did apparently. And the fact that there's no inkling of it of it anywhere in the region no matter how hard you search.

>Why should they constantly talk about it?
No one is saying that they should. Just that if it exists there should be some kind of evidence that it does. A passing mention in a paper, a word from an NPC, an actual megastone. The lack of anything relating to it is completely unheard of especially when there's a ton of research being done into Pokemon in various places across the region. Take the Gen 4 frontier. There's a single passing mention to it in XY. That's sufficient proof that it exists in that universe.

You know what.
I may as well just stop replying to you. You're just always going to take the game at face value and misinterpret them regardless of what's being said to you.

>>28337642
Lore is about stuff that doesnt contradict canon. You're saying reality is real because it makes no sense

>>28337816
*isnt

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>>28332628
>Ignoring timeline/alternate realities/etc.
Gen1 = Gen3 >> Gen2 = Gen4 >> BW1 >> BW2 = XY >> SM

>If you believe the alternate reality/timeline/dimensions then...
When you transfer a Pokemon from 3rdGen to 6thGen games flavor text on the Pokemon says something along the lines of "it has traveled a long distance across space and time to meet you"

before 6th gen it only ever said "... across time to meet you"

This implies that 6th gen is another dimension/reality. Probably due to Mega evolutions because of that war 3,000 years ago and the machine that created megastones or whatever. In addition to the Zinnia talk that this entire thread has gone over with a magnifying glass. We can deduce that there is a non-mega timeline. We can assume that this is a possibility at the very least:

Gen1 = RSE >> Gen2 = Gen4 >> BW1 >> BW2 = XY(without Mega)
Gen1 = ORAS >> Gen2 = Gen4 >> BW1 >> BW2 = XY

>we can fill in the other Gens with their definitive games/remakes.
FRLG = RSE >> HGSS = DPPt >> BW1 >> BW2 = XY (without Mega)
FRLG = ORAS >> HGSS = DPPt >> BW1 >> BW2 = XY

we can separate these differences with names. The first one being the Advance dimension/timeline (because it started with the Advance games). The second one being the Mega dimension/timeline (because of inclusion of Megas). Some fans mistake this as meaning the previous games not in 6th gen never occured, but they did. Just that Mega evolutions exist now. This opens GF to remake all those previous games.


>some people like to take this even further and include a 3rd reality/timeline. Which is not important to this discussion, but merits a mention:
RGBY >> GSC
the Gameboy timeline/dimension


I hope this helps anyone.

>>28337816
So in other words you don't know the first thing about lore threads.

>>28337642
>I think you're beginning to miss the point of a lore thread.
It´s to talk about the lore of the games, not to pass your headcanon as fact.

>The key word being "substantial" anon. Meaning there's a lot but not all of them are.
"a lot" isnt specific anon, specially if you have no proof there can even be any.

>You're just going around in circles now.
Ironic you say so.

> why wouldn't they be researching it to aid them?
They don´t have the resources? They don´t consider it good enough? Considering they still have all of their members using Rattatas and Koffings, they clearly arent very smart. There are many other possible explanations other than "this doesnt exist in their world". Prove why that´s the only alternative without considering your own opinions.
Heck, are you even told what branches of evolution they do investigate? Because all evolutions are controlled, Mega Evolution is just temporal and battle only.

>You did apparently.
They might not know about or they might know,we dont have evidence on either. You think we do.

>And the fact that there's no inkling of it of it anywhere in the region no matter how hard you search.
So? Not all games have all the information of every single other game, it would be ridiculous to think that.

>No one is saying that they should.
It´s what your entire argument hinges on.

>Just that if it exists there should be some kind of evidence that it does.
Why should there be?

>Take the Gen 4 frontier. There's a single passing mention to it in XY. That's sufficient proof that it exists in that universe.
They dont mention notched ear Pichu so I guess the entirety of Gen 4 doesnt exist on that universe.

>You're just always going to take the game at face value and misinterpret them regardless of what's being said to you.
You´re the guy who adds conjectures to pass his headcanon as fact, and when faced on contradictions, you start to deny your own arguments. And now you even get condescent? fuck off.

>>28337869
>If you believe the alternate reality/timeline/dimensions
timeline doesnt mean the same as dimensions or reality.
And there´s no belief here, it´s stated in the games.

>>28337816
Anon, you're supposed to use story elements and lore to piece together a backstory or world building. What you're doing is saying
>no, nuh-uh that doesn't make sense
Without actually saying why it doesn't make sense.

>>28337956
some people, as seen in this thread, are firmly against timeline/alternate reality. So I made my post sound as nonthreatening to their beliefs as possible.

Yeah I know timeline is different, I was just trying to be as inclusive as possible.

>>28337989
It´s not about belief/faith. It´s a stated thing in the games. If people don't like it its moot. If we were talking about actual religion beliefs then I wouldnt mind, but people here should learn how to differentiate between facts and headcanon.

>>28337936
Same goes to you too I suppose assuming you aren't the same anon. >>28337968

You're denying discussion just because you somehow lack the ability to piece things together

>>28338102
>You're denying discussion
How the fuck am I denying discussion by actually discussing? But lore is lore and headcanon is headcanon.

>you somehow lack the ability to piece things together
If I´m wrong about Gen 6 being on the same verse as the other games except RSE, then prove it. With facts taken from the games. Not with your own headcanon as to why characters have to act the way they do and then proceeding to ignore your own arguments(including you saying that you wont reply to me anymore).

If you like to have a headcanon that´s fine, but don´t go around insisting it´s a fact when it isnt.

I´m not the other guy you quoted btw.

>>28337880
Ok
>>28337968
>>28338102
I'm piecing together things based on what we definitely know about the world, and you are based on things you think should be happening. I'm not denying discussion, I'm just disagreeing with your points. Not once have I said you can't discuss this. But I haven't found any point you made that makes me less faithful in my own.

>>28337867
>>28337869
I have both of these images

Come on, the origins of mega evolution is not the only dispute that we're facing though. There is also something about Brandon and his crew went on an exploration around the volcanoes and spotted a Volcanion. With that said, it is already clear that ORAS and RSE are both set in a different universe since ORAS and XY are interlinked with one another.

To those who have been wondering about Gen 1, I remember in the Gen 1 games there was this girl standing outside the cave saying that she saw a pokemon that has a petal sign on its body. Isn't that a reference to BW's Musharna? But then again, is this actually a twist that Unova already existed since gen 1 or just some random shit made up by GF.

>>28338335
That girl said she wants a pokemon with a floral pattern. Not that she saw one.

meme magic happened and Munna happened in BW1/Gen5/

>>28338238
What I said about the flavor text on transferred Pokemon isn't what the flavor text says word for word. It is a guess. Someone post the flavor text for definite proof for your picture/album.

>>28338335
Is that person still in FRLG

>>28338335
>There is also something about Brandon and his crew went on an exploration around the volcanoes and spotted a Volcanion
What´s wrong with this?

> it is already clear that ORAS and RSE are both set in a different universe since ORAS and XY are interlinked with one another.
And, you know, the fact this was literally stated by Zinnia.

>saying that she saw a pokemon that has a petal sign on its body. Isn't that a reference to BW's Musharna?
Who knows.

> is this actually a twist that Unova already existed since gen 1
You dont know the first thing about pokémon lore do you?
Of course Unova always existed, same as other regions, they werent created out of nowhere. How do you think they have myths?

>>28338414
That actually reminds me, I really think that its changed to "between space and time" because ORAS and XY are at opposite ends of the timeline and are freely transferable. In every other case, you can only trade across the timeline or further ahead

It actually helps support the one timeline theory as well

>>28332661
Maybe it's helmet is more of a religious symbol representing religion limiting science. Maybe type:null's trainer placed that on it before the whole transformation process was finished and the aether foundation wants to remove it

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>>28338383
>That girl said she wants a pokemon with a floral pattern. Not that she saw one.

Ya right. Here is the real conversation.

>>28337869
It doesn't help anybody because you're needlessly overcomplicating it

The timeline isn't hard to understand to anybody with a brain, the alternate realities bullshit doesn't affect the timeline.

Not that what you say is wrong or anything.

>>28338512
Yeah that's why it was the first thing I mentioned in my post. It is the best piece of evidence.

>>28335454
So black/Black 2 and White/White 2 are different universes, but not (Omega)Ruby, (Alpha)Shappire and Emerald?

And what about Diamond/Pearl/Platinum?

>>28337956
>it´s stated in the games.
Just by Zinnia, not by anyone else.
We don't have any evidence other then her claims.

>>28338512
>one timeline theory
This isn't a theory, this is explicit, and has been talked about directly by the creators.

The timeline is definitive, no matter which version of the games you are playing.

Whether you're playing in a universe with or without Mega Evolution, all the games still exist, and happen in the established chronological order.

>>28338847
>not (Omega)Ruby, (Alpha)Shappire and Emerald?
ORAS and RSE are different, its shown on the pic.

The pic anon posted is cropped, the full pic explains that sets of games, such as Ruby- Sapphire-Emerald, and OmegaRuby-AlphaSapphire are taken as the general events happening in the games.

Blacks and Whites are separated because there´s an actual statement about them being different universes.

>>28338899
>Just by Zinnia, not by anyone else.
We dont need anything else.

>We don't have any evidence other then her claims.
Yes, the Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald editions.

>>28338947
I meant, aren't Ruby and Emerald separate universes?

>>28338847
You're misunderstanding. Every single game is a different universe, but shares it's place on the timeline with its counterparts.

So yes, D/P/Pt are different universes. But it doesn't matter, because no matter what, they still slot in the same place in the timeline.

>>28338899
An NPC in Black/White confirms the concept of parallel worlds actually. What people do get wrong though, is overstating the importance. People seem to think that the Delta Episode "confirming" that R/S/E were a parallel world was some "huge revelation" or some shit, but it really wasn't at all. It doesn't affect anything.

>>28338985
Maybe, we have no statement on the matter.

>>28338947
Every single version is a different universe. You shouldn't need an NPC in literally EVERY game to explain that. We've had two people in Pokemon explain that another version is a parallel universe. It''s pretty safe to assume that is correct across the board.

>>28338985
Yes

>>28339030
>Every single version is a different universe.
[citation needed]

>You shouldn't need an NPC in literally EVERY game to explain that.
It would be enough with one source for all yeah.
Which we don´t have.

> It''s pretty safe to assume that is correct across the board.
safe assumption!=fact

>>28339062
I'm not doing this dance with you smartass.

If you want to believe the multiverse exists, but it somehow doesn't include ALL the old games because they haven't been directly mentioned, then whatever. You know that isn't logical, I am not going to waste my time trying to get you to admit it.

>>28339174
>If you want to believe the multiverse exists
Pokémon is not real so it doesnt exist either way.

>but it somehow doesn't include ALL the old games because they haven't been directly mentioned, then whatever
Yes, I base my information about the games lore on actual sources about it. The only games left out are Gen 1, 2 and DP anyways.

>You know that isn't logical
How is the concept of a game not being canon not logical? If it´s so obvious you should be able to explain it.

>>28339247
Well that only REALLY leaves out D/P if you consider FR/LG, HG/SS and Platinum replacing the others as Remakes, and the other Gen 1/2 games are disconnected entirely from the rest of the franchise due to compatability. Mechanics were overhauled in Gen 3 anyways. For all intents and purposes, Gen 3 was a reboot, complete with it's own remakes of the Kanto games.

So.

This debate is kind of meaningless.

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>>28338671
I always wondered if this was supposed to be a reference to one of the Pokemon already in the game and it just came across as confusing.

Like I thought before that she was talking about Vileplume but it's purple, not pink..

To the Anons arguing about Megastones in Kanto because of meteors,

Wasn't it stated that the energy of the weapon used to end the Kalos war "transformed" evolution stones into Megastones?

If that's the case the infinity energy that GMH and Devon were extracting was the same kind thus Megastones in Hoenn make sense.

Until we hear about infinity energy being present in Kanto in some way there's no chance of any stones, meteor or not, being a mega stone.

Timeline:
The cronological order of the events, which ones we consider to make the canon history

Canon:
An event we consider true or relevant bc other sources prove it (DPPt is canon bc HGSS and BW prove it)

Alternative Universe:
A universe where things went different, but follow the same timeline, one universe doesn't deny the other (RS events are as canonical as E or ORAS events, but for their universes)

There is ONE timeline
But there are MULTIPLE universes

>>28339809
That's a good point.

Alola looks to have no meteors or space lasers, so no Mega Stones until Post game.

>>28340103
Where were you 100 comments ago

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>>28340443
Probably in a different universe

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What do you think about that

>>28337401
>I can have IRL conversations about topics that arent WW2
Godwin's law I think it was? Any conversation will eventually, inevitably, turn to hitler

>>28340682
>it works if we ignore two of the things jutting out

>>28340783
Godwins Law was specifically made to refer to a political forum where the person who created it had conversations often

>>28340596
>lol, made me smile

>>28340103
I think we pretty much agree with everything you said, but we still argue because we're all autistic.

>>28342084
the /vp/ experience

>>28332628
Thank you OP

Previous thread: >>28324951 >>28324951 >>28324951

>>28342084
I think there is one autist in this thread who genuinely can not wrap his head around this and was instigating most of the arguments.

>>28342573
I dunno, reading the thread, I just see everybody arguing minor inconsequential bullshit that Game Freak would laugh at us about, but most of the posters seem to have a correct understanding of the important stuff.

>>28342510
Funilly enough, that looks to be mainly about Gen 5 and 7, but this thread was mainly Johto, and then timelines

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Reminder that Cyrus caused the timeline split and his timeline-hopping most likely lead to the Ultra Beasts leaking in

Reminder that Cyrus was the one who was most interested in the energy behind evolution, dedicating an entire cult to the concept

Reminder that Rowan was an accomplice to Cyrus and if Rowan didn't convince you to go seek out the Lake Trio, Cyrus would never have gotten the Red Chain

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The Rest Of The Ultra Beasts Will Be Based Around The World Tree: Yggdrasil... Yes Norse mythology. Code name for Sun/Moon is Rainbow like the rainbow bridge. So Alola is like Midgard and the hyperspace hole is like the rainbow bridge connected to different "worlds" as that one Aether foundation person put it. UB-01 is like a mist creature from Nifelheim so we could get UB-02 as some ice giant looking thing, UB-03 as some fire giant looking thing, etc. Also In the Thor movie... The rainbow bridge can be used to access other realms

>>28332661
Nah... I honk its like a Hoopa situation. "Arceus Tech" used to surpress it's power. Since the Arceus bit looks like it's part of the helmet

canon: http://orig00.deviantart.net/5cea/f/2016/170/3/2/timeline_of_pokemon_multiverse__ramified__by_ndelgenesis-da6ldxu.png

no-canon: everything else

>>28342957
Immediately false, since GSC/remakes take place at the same time as DPPt

Will the UB's be capturable? If so, via PokéBalls, or a new method? Will they be able to be used like actual Pokémon?

Also, who here actually likes the concept of them? I'm currently unsure, but I have zero hype for them

>>28342859
Interesting. This is connected back to Zygarde/Yveltal/Xerneus, too

>>28342850
Nice headcanons

>>28342957
No, we've been over this already. Gen 6 happens in the same timeline as the rest of the games. This is explicit in-game, and has been restated by the creators. See: >>28340103

>There is ONE timeline
>But there are MULTIPLE universes
That's all you need to know.

>>28342957
wow you fucked up big time

>>28342957
I like the layout of this. It's the best laid out display of the timeline I have seen. Too bad it has incorrect shit in it so I can't use it.

>>28343018
>Nice headcanons
How come Rowan is the only one who knows about Team Galactics interest in the energy behind evolution?

How come Rowan sends you to find Mesprit, which leads to it being captured upon it exiting its cave?

>>28339809
>Wasn't it stated that the energy of the weapon used to end the Kalos war "transformed" evolution stones into Megastones?
That was just a theory by Sycamore.

>If that's the case the infinity energy that GMH and Devon were extracting was the same kind thus Megastones in Hoenn make sense.
But Mega Evolution was a thing before Infinity Energy was introduced to Hoenn.

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Mega Universe
>Events happen where Rayquaza Mega Evolves thousands of years ago
>AZ builds the Ultimate Weapon during wartime 2,000 years ago and spreads mega evolution further. Kalos begins to study it as a battling artform only available to worthy trainers.
>[Stand-in for Kanto events]Pokèmon Origins styled FR/LG where you get a Mega Starter and Mega Evolution is mentioned as something Powerful from far away
>ORAS happens
3 Years Pass
>[Stand-in for Johto events] HG/SS except instead of Magikarp evolving into regular Gyarados at the Lake of Rage Team Rocket is trying to instigate a bunch of rampaging Mega Gyarados for real destruction. Most likely Primal/Mega plotline with Lugia and Ho-oh takes place
>[Stand-in for Sinnoh events]Diamond/Pearl with Mega Evolution, Primal Dialga/Palkia and a "Platinum Story" involving going to face Primal Giratina in the other dimension that it lives in
INDETERMINATE YEARS PASS
>[Stand-in for Unova events]Black/White probably wouldn't involve Primal Zekrom and Reshiram since they were more recent legendaries. They would get Megas, and the ethics of catching, battling and forcing Pokemon to evolve unnaturally would be brought up. Of course, Ghetsis just wants to rampage across Unova with his Mega Hydreigon. Black/White 2 would be an episode and would see the return of the Original Dragon
INDETERMINATE YEARS PASS
>XY Happen
INDETERMINATE YEARS PASS
>Sun and Moon happen

>>28343018
>No, we've been over this already. Gen 6 happens in the same timeline as the rest of the games.
Nice head canon but you have nothing to back that up.

>>28343089
See: >>28334461

Now stop being a twat and go play the games so you can see for yourself that it's directly connected to the others

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>>28343089
Actually we do faggot

>>28343116
A tweet that was removed and was retconned by ORAS.
I'll say it again, you have nothing to back that up.

>>28343143
>two people can't exist in the different universes

>>28343116
How can ORAS and RSE exist in the same timeline

Why do Pokemon transferred up say TRAVELLED THROUGH TIME AND SPACE

>>28343005
>GSC/remakes take place at the same time
HGSS starts before DPPt, that means DPPt should ends later than HGSS
So HGSS -> DPPt -> BW

>>28343018
>Gen 6 happens in the same timeline as the rest of the games
>one timeline, multiple universes
>literally my point
That pic shows the dissociation of universes, retarded

>>28343044
>>28343028
[citation needed]

>>28343086
>>Events happen where Rayquaza Mega Evolves thousands of years ago
>>AZ builds the Ultimate Weapon during wartime 2,000 years ago and spreads mega evolution further. Kalos begins to study it as a battling artform only available to worthy trainers.
It's hard to place these two events to be honest seeing as AZ witnessed the events of Ray Mega evolving.

>"Rayquaza once again confronted Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. The golden filaments that sprang from its body covered the sky. An emerald brilliance illuminated the area. A terrible wind rose."
"The wind and emerald light visibly sapped the power from Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Drained of their primal powers, the two vanished into the depths of land and sea. Rayquaza watched them go, regaining its usual appearance. Then it soared back up into the heavens where it dwelled. A witness to this series of events, a tall visitor from a distant land, said, “It is the Δ (Delta), born of the great disturbances in this world.

>>28343143
Obviously the events and people from the other games exist. Mega Timeline Colress actually has stuff to go on (infinity energy, mega stones, etc) where as regular timeline Colress didnt, other wise why wouldnt he just study mega evolution

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>The Aether Foundation's goal is to care for Pokémon that have been hurt.
>Ghetsis only allowed N to be raised alongside Pokemon that have been hurt (albeit by humans but still hurt)
>Colress never agreed with the ideals of Team Plasma but still worked for them

Connection between Plasma and Aether Foundation that goes beyond Colress possible?

>>28343143
Anon, just because there are two different universes doesn't mean that there can't be a counterpart in either universe.

>>28343166
>>28343212
>>28343246

Still confirms that the timelines between BW and XY are linked

>>28343304
No ones refuting that, but if Colress shows up in Sun and Moon it isnt BW Colress that we know

>>28343335
then why are you fucking faggots arguing?

>>28343304
It's not so much a direct link as much as it's a conformation that a version of Colress exists in this timeline. In other words it doesn't prove that there's a singular timeline.

>>28343335
But Sun in Moon take place after the events of X and Y tho

>>28342850
Too ridiculous for me

>>28342859
The rest? Is the first one based around it?

>>28342957
No

>>28343018
>Will the UB's be capturable?
I highly doubt it desu. I only think this adding too much bloat to the game and I hope it doesnt end up with everything not getting enough time to breathe

>>28343086
I despise the idea that Megas have to be at the centre of every region if they exist. SM is showing us that this isnt the case anyways

>28343166
Nothing in ORAS retconned that tweet, and the tweet is more canon than your head

>>28343423
so it proves that there is a multiverse just like what ORAS proved long ago?

Also just like what this fucking post has already stated? >>28340103


I swear you people are fucking idiots for arguing

>>28343467
>Nothing in ORAS retconned that tweet
Except for the fact that XY exists in the Mega verse. And while it may occur in the same time frame it's not in the same universe.

>>28343467
>I despise the idea that Megas have to be at the centre of every region if they exist.
If it makes you feel better they weren't really plot relevant in gen 6 in all honesty.
DE is probably the biggest thing they got.

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>>28342957
Here, I cut out all the irrelevant shit.

Protip: alternate realities may be canon, doesn't mean game freak gives a shit about expanding that. They've always kept the games on a "only the newest games matter" mentality. This is why Cynthia only talks about the Platinum events in B/W.

The people who think Zinnia's dialogue somehow means we're on a timeline where Gen 1-5 never happen, or that we're going to go back to a non-Mega timeline, are utterly fucking retarded. They even mention Team Plasma in X/Y, and the creators have already confirmed the established timeline. OR/AS didn't change shit.

If you disagree, you clearly haven't been in this franchise long, because GF has made retcons in the past, and nobody started screaming "I GUESS THE OLD GAMES ARE ALTERNATE TIMELINES, AND DIS MUST MEAN DEY NEVER HAPPENS IN DIS TIMELINE, HURR I WONDAH IF NEXT GAMES WILL BE IN DA OLD TIMELINE????!?1?!!?1?!/1?1"

Enjoy the timeline. Enjoy writing triggered responses and giving me (you)'s because your headcanon is never going to be acknowledged by Game Freak. Enjoy trying to tell me it "already has" by using misunderstood/out of context text from OR/AS. I don't give a fuck. This is the only timeline thathas ever been acknowledged as correct by GF, and they have never ever suggested that the current timeline exists in a world where the other gens never happened. If you disagree, then it's no sweat on my back. I'm having fun here.

>>28343212
This entire post is made up information

>>28343514
That doesnt retcon the tweet, it just brings ORAS in that timeline as well. You really think it's more likely that they split the entire pokemon universe mid-gen, rather than just make the remake replace the original games like every other time?

>>28343549
Then why is it hard to accept they wouldnt be plot relevant but still exist in Gens 4 to 6?

>>28343613
>Then why is it hard to accept they wouldnt be plot relevant but still exist in Gens 4 to 6?
You're asking the wrong person. I didn't write that post.

>>28343600
Sun and moon take place 5 years after xy/b2w2

>>28343514
Nothing in OR/AS suggests the Megaverse doesn't include Gens 1-5.

Zinnia says there's a universe where RSE exist without megas. That's it. Trying to expand that quote and finding information where there is none is headcanon. We already know as fact, from In-Game text in X/Y, as well as creator confirmation that X/Y fits into our regular timeline absolutely fine.

>>28343641
We don't know exactly how long after they take yet. Also I may add dates and sources to that timeline so confused anons don't ask stupid shit like "b-but Zinnia said-" or "Why does Gen 3 happen before Gen 2, hurr"

>>28343635
But you make a good point. Megas have rarely been plot relevant. They have never been the main plot of a region before.

>>28343600
This is a good one

>>28343642
>Zinnia says there's a universe where RSE exist without megas. That's it.
While specifically mentioning an event that happened in Kalos.

>A world where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened. A world where the ultimate weapon was never even built.
Clearly suggesting that XY and ORAS both exist in another universe.

>Trying to expand that quote and finding information where there is none is headcanon.
Sorry but last time I checked conformation within the games aren't head canon.

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>>28343600
I also made one but yours is much better

>>28343600
It's kind of setting off my autism that the gen 5 games are in the wrong places.

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>>28343793

Theres also the fact that theres hint's in S&M that lead to a DP remake which could include megas, so the DP remake fits with universe C

>>28343785
>Clearly suggesting that XY and ORAS both exist in another universe.
This is where your entire arguement falls apart.

X/Y was made with it taking place alongside B2/W2 in mind.

This is evident by the Colress reference AND the person who says that Team Plasma in white suits were around a few years ago.

>Plasma Grunts in white
>few years later, Colress shows up (this happening in the timeframe of Neo Plasma in the Black suits, which exist due to the story of B/W)

But in your magical headcanon, Gen 5, and everything before it, never happened. Plasma just happened to be around a few years before X/Y, and then they magically disappeared, and then Colress magically shows up to do his research a couple years later. Wow man. That's a pretty sick coincidence, do you think game freak thought of it!?!

>>28343898
Holy shit I want to believe

>>28333765
Ooh, now we're getting somewhere. It's also been theorized and possibly leaked that Z-Moves are what activate the Bond Phenomenon, and Snorlax starts Pulverizing Pancake lying down (presumably asleep) and is shown standing up once it ends, showing that Z-Moves DO have secondary effects.

>>28343835
I'll fix that, give me a minute

>>28343907
>X/Y was made with it taking place alongside B2/W2 in mind.
Except there's nothing suggesting that they exist within the same universe. You're thinking solely in terms of time and not space.

In other words it's possible that counterparts to these events exist within the megaverse and the prior universe.
So it would be something like

Megaverse
FRLG counterpart = ORAS > HGSS Counterpart = DP/Pt counterpart > BW counterpart > BW2 counterpart > XY

Regular universe
FRLG = RSE > HGSS = DPPt > BW > BW2 > regular XY

With the single point of divergence being the war, so everything prior to that was the same in both universes.
This would also explain why XY and ORAS can reference characters and such from previous games. Understand?

Also stop calling everything you dislike headcanon because the only one spreading head canon here is you at the moment because you're clearly denying what's within the games themselves.

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>>28343972
>>28343835
>>28343600
Here, fixed Gen 5, and added the confirmed amount of Years between games where applicable

>>28343907
>But in your magical headcanon, Gen 5, and everything before it, never happened.
No one said they didn't happen in that universe retard. Jesus Christ, it's like you get mad before you even think about any other view point that doesn't match your head canon.

>>28343600
>"happen approximately simultaneosly"
Literally nobody has said that doesnt happen. See >>28343194
Nobody specifies which "->" represents
If you want something specific, the author has other versions

>Zinnia's dialogue somehow means we're on a timeline where Gen 1-5 never happen
Gen 1-5 happen, but different, like ORAS instead RSE, Zinnia confirms that, she talk about a Hoenn without megaevolution, without ORAS-Hoenn tecnology

>even mention Team Plasma in X/Y
Which literally means nothing because BW could happen in megaevolution universe

>If you disagree, you clearly haven't been in this franchise long, because...
I don't care about your autism, anon.

>and they have never ever suggested that the current timeline exists in a world where the other gens never happened
Except Zinnia did

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>>28344130
>Black and White 2 are still in the wrong places

>>28344095
I agree with you.

The only problem is that you seem to think Game Freak give a shit about anything other than the "Megaverse".

They don't, at all. To them, the "Megaverse" is the Pokémon Universe, and the "counterparts" are just the games as we know them. Basically, this: >>28344130

They don't look into it as much as you, because it's pointless shit that doesn't matter and is never going to be explored further.

>>28344130
Shit, just see >>28344171
>"If you want something specific, the author has other versions"

>>28344171
>Except Zinnia did
Wrong. Biggest misconception right here.

She said R/S/E are in another universe. Not OR/AS.

>>28344175
FUCK

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>>28344095
you mean pic related :^)

>>28339809
I've always assumed that when the ultimate weapon was originally fired it hit/charged some rocks in space. Those fell down in different regions and became mega stones. We just haven't seen the universe where that happened in Kanto, unova, and sinnoh.

>>28344213
>But GF said!
Way to suck the fun out of the thread anon. We know that they won't consider the previous universe but that doesn't mean we can't use what they've left us to shape something out.

And using just a few DE quotes we can shape out at least two separate universes.

>>28343898
We've had trainer classes in only a few Gens several times, this doesnt mean much at all.

>>28344095
>Except there's nothing suggesting that they exist within the same universe
Except the literal official timeline? No "official timeline" should have "it's possible" as the centre of it. There is nothing to suggest they dont, so I will go with the official source that said they did. Until something contradicts it in official work, that's what is canon

>>28344171
Zinnia ONLY says that ORAS and RSE takes place in different universes.
Also you told him to stop calling things headcannon then called his thing headcannon.

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>>28344130
>>28343600
>>28344175

>>28344296
Why is it so hard for you to accept that the same or similar events can occur in two different universes?

>>28344247
>Zinnia said RSE are in another universe
>which literally means RSE universe (FRLG, HGSS, DPPt, BW and BW2) never happened in megauniverse, even their megauniverse counterparts happen (like DP remake or Pokemon Origins)

>>28344311
Saved for other threads

>>28344333
I can accept it. But with the information we were given, Gen 4 to 7 being the same universe simply makes much more sense to me.

>>28344311
Bang on.

>>28344289
I don't feel like I has "sucked the fun" out of anything. I am not responsible for people getting upset.

>We know that they won't consider the previous universe but that doesn't mean we can't use what they've left us to shape something out.
Sure? I am not sure that's really the problem here. The main problem I have is the idea that people think that Gen 1-5, as the game's we know the as, never happened in the current timeline. Nothing Zinnia said can prove that at all. Game Freak has never remotely suggested that. The opposite in fact. The only people "sucking the fun" out of anything are the people aggressively denying this.

>using just a few DE quotes we can shape out at least two separate universes.
Not denying that at all either. I know the multiverse/parallel exists in Pokémon. The problem is people headcanonning how it works, and then trying to insist what they say is fact. We only have what Game Freak has given us.

>>28344373
>is the idea that people think that Gen 1-5, as the game's we know the as, never happened in the current timeline.
Literally no one has said that at all.

>people saying there's only two universes
>when there's at four of them because the gen 5 games happen in different universes

>>28344339
>which literally means RSE universe (FRLG, HGSS, DPPt, BW and BW2) never happened in megauniverse, even their megauniverse counterparts happen (like DP remake or Pokemon Origins)
This is the part that you pull out of your ass.

We have always, always, ALWAYS treated third versions/remakes as the dominant one. When Platinum came out, it became the "Canon" one, with D/P being relegated as "parallel worlds". It's how it has always worked. So Zinnia shows up, and suddenly people go crazy thinking with RSE it's the opposite, and that the Remakes are now somehow the ones being pushed off into their own timeline.

Like, no? That isn't how it works. R/S/E are confirmed a seperate univers, one with no megas. That's it. Doesn't change the timeline, or where OR/AS slot into it.

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Correct Timeline. The theories all point to this

>>28344339
>which literally means RSE universe (FRLG, HGSS, DPPt, BW and BW2) never happened in megauniverse
No, it means RSE were replaced by the remakes in the current timeline. That is more logical as it is always what happened, and Zinnia only talked about Hoenn.

>>28344465
So what you're saying is... it all comes together?

>>28344487
>and Zinnia only talked about Hoenn.
And Kalos.
Both of which reference areas in previous games meaning there's a counterpart in that universe.

>>28344465
>S&M at the beginning and end
What does it mean...

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>>28344465
"correct"
"all theories point to this"

>>28344543
Death and Rebirth.

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>>28344543
Alchemy

If the thread doesn't mind I'm gonna post a little compilation of all the mysterious stuff I can see thus far

Between Gen VII and past games
>AZ's floette was in XY but cut for unknown reasons, might return a la Mega Lati@s and Complete Zygarde but who knows
>Project AZOTH was stated by both Aqua and Magma to return the world to its start, Azoth is a city introduced in Magearna's movie
>Sina and Dexio appear in Alola seemingly a long time after X and Y take place with the Zygarde Cube, implying an extension to Kalos lore
>Colress, a known researcher, has a look similar to the Aether foundation, but is just coincidental at this point
>Type:Null was supposedly created to imitate mythological Pokemon, mask looks similar to Arceus' ring

Within Gen VII
>Type: Null is a man-made mon, suggesting a connection with the Aether Foundation, a research group, but again, coincidental
>UB01 has shapeshifting powers and acts like a young girl, heavy implying a connection with Lillie

Did I overlook anything?

Autor de la imagen aqui

Dejad de estropearla juntando universos separados. FR-LG nunca ocurrió paralelo a OR-AS y B2-W2 nunca paralelo a X-Y. La versión del universo mega de FR-LG ocurrió paralela a OR-AS y la versión del universo mega de B2-W2 ocurrió paralela a X-Y.

>>28344440
You mean
http://pre15.deviantart.net/a43b/th/pre/i/2016/168/5/c/timelines_of_pokemon_multiverse__classic__by_ndelgenesis-da6lf65.png
http://pre04.deviantart.net/86bf/th/pre/f/2016/168/8/a/8a4ccaf22c0d1cbf0df2b395d9b25592-da6li11.png
http://pre10.deviantart.net/c467/th/pre/f/2016/168/5/d/timelines_of_pokemon_multiverse__azoth__by_ndelgenesis-da6lij1.png


(I'm sorry for the taco)

>>28344465
you should indicate when the mega and non mega timeline starts

>>28344396
>Literally no one has said that at all.

-> >>28344095
>counterpart

-> >>28343335
>it isnt BW Colress that we know

-> >>28344339
>RSE universe (FRLG, HGSS, DPPt, BW and BW2) never happened in megauniverse

Those are just three of many. Game Freak has never suggested this idea about there being counterparts. Now, technically it is right. I am absolutely not disagreeing. But right now, we have literally zero reason at all to believe that these "counterparts" are different from our current games in ANY way. That's my main point here. The timeline is unchanged, we don't need to add all these little clauses about "Universe A" and "D/P Counterparts" or any of that.

>>28344605
those images look like they're for ants

>>28344593
>Sina and Dexio appear in Alola seemingly a long time after X and Y
I've seen this, but it's actually a huge misconception. Remember all the characters in X/Y were in that chibi overworld style. Sina/Dexio aren't taller or much older at all. It's very possible that S/M happens 1 year after X/Y, or 5 years after.

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>>28344605
We've gone too deep.

>>28332760
>The four scientists are just the Scooby Doo gang and Type: Null is Scooby
JUST
U
S
T

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At request of >>28344489

Pic related. I think I've figured out the Riddlers Aristotle... Riddle.

My theory is that there's a 3rd Legendary to complete Lunaala and Solglelo. There's a lot of Alchemy lore behind it, which I think makes perfect sense when you look at it.

I originally established the Aristotle/Elements/Alchemy link weeks ago and made the theory about the Islands representing the Elements of Aristotle.

But as it's indirectly confirmed to be a Pokemon, I think this new theory fits perfectly.

>>28344630
You are a complete idiot.

>>28344593
I dont think it's that long. Sina and Dexio dont look older than say, 2 years.

>>28344630
Especially since they imply that a Mega-verse "counterpart" suddenly needs to have Megas as a central part of the plot, while SM is looking to only have Megas in post game

>>28344669
Good point. Maybe it wasn't that long, but what they say proves that SM still takes place after XY, so there's that.

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>>28344696
Thank you anon!

also holy fucking shit, DEEPEST LORE